Guild Wars 2

I’m sorry I can’t win stupid arguments, all you will do is say “Its just because of wvwvw” when the topic at hand clearly has to do with a thief in wvwvw, I can’t win against the argument because your head is simply in a dark place, i’m sorry I give up.

Sure, nerf backstab it does way too much damage! Its not like it does less damage then Whirling Wrath, Axe 3 (not counting the first 2 attacks.), Killshot and I won’t even go into air elementalist burst.

You win, I no longer care.

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors do more damage then thieves.

Axe autoattack’s 3 chain does more damage then backstab.
Whirling Wrath does more damage then backstab.

Lies, not even the 3 hists of axe autoattack are the same damage of 1 single backstab, even dagger autattack does more damage, what are you doing here in this forum?, you clearly have a thief that enjoys 1 hit killing people.

Fenrir, read my posts and check your eyes. I have a thief and a warrior. However I am here most of the time moreso then anywhere else.

You have read dozens of my posts here trying to fix the warrior, but YOU CAN SEE THE TOOLTIPS IN THE LINKS.

Backstab isn’t the 1-hit-kill attack you say it is. Its less damage then most other normal abilities.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Backstab-Picture/first#post2185307

Looks like you just hit a warrior, judging by what you stole.

What if:

He had frenzy, taking another 25% damage?

What if he had full zerker? There is only a 180 armor difference between thief and warrior…

Its balanced, because glass cannons are suppost to kill glass cannons, and you hit another glass cannot with a damage increase on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

Sniper Warrior, hitting 18-25k criticals from kill shot.

So you are comparing an adrenaline skill that snares you on the floor and can be avoided very easy with a skill that can 1hit kill you from stealth…

Nope, its not balanced.

I will compare to whirling wrath then, which does more damage, can hit more targets.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJgYhGde9Qmc

Or how about the roaming elementalist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyahdHO0WHk&list=LLmzSk2tr1p9t2yv9glC613Q

I have seen that video before and its clearly wvw, in pvp you are not going to do that damage, but thieves can, and you cant see it coming, if they fail they will just try again, if you manage to lower their health then they will run stealth and reset the fight, it dosent matter how you look at it, its not fair.

im sorry but a fight between zerkers end in seconds, you got those thieves once they are done, even if they really got away in a really small chance,who cares, move on.

Daecollo.9578:

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors do more damage then thieves.

Axe autoattack’s 3 chain does more damage then backstab.
Whirling Wrath does more damage then backstab.

Lies, not even the 3 hists of axe autoattack are the same damage of 1 single backstab, even dagger autattack does more damage, what are you doing here in this forum?, you clearly have a thief that enjoys 1 hit killing people.

Fenrir, read my posts and check your eyes. I have a thief and a warrior. However I am here most of the time moreso then anywhere else.

You have read dozens of my posts here trying to fix the warrior, but YOU CAN SEE THE TOOLTIPS IN THE LINKS.

Backstab isn’t the 1-hit-kill attack you say it is. Its less damage then most other normal abilities.

I stopped reading when i read this part. Tell us you trolling right? :o

however why are you using a sword instead of an axe i ve had eviscerate landing for 30k hits on players stun with shield and slap thief with eviscerate and give em a taste of their medicine.

Rezzet.3614:

Lighter.5631:

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Daecollo.9578:

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors do more damage then thieves.

Axe autoattack’s 3 chain does more damage then backstab.
Whirling Wrath does more damage then backstab.

Lies, not even the 3 hists of axe autoattack are the same damage of 1 single backstab, even dagger autattack does more damage, what are you doing here in this forum?, you clearly have a thief that enjoys 1 hit killing people.

Fenrir, read my posts and check your eyes. I have a thief and a warrior. However I am here most of the time moreso then anywhere else.

You have read dozens of my posts here trying to fix the warrior, but YOU CAN SEE THE TOOLTIPS IN THE LINKS.

Backstab isn’t the 1-hit-kill attack you say it is. Its less damage then most other normal abilities.

I stopped reading when i read this part. Tell us you trolling right? :o

Can’t tell if you are bad at trolling or just bad at trolling.

what Daecollo said was actually true

Thief auto attack has an attack speed of 1/4 with dagger
heartseek does massive damage and has no cooldown
pistol whip is basically a 9 hit version of 100b with a stun
i ve seen cloak and dagger hit for up to 5k on me

i was talking about the one i quoted, which is heOneNOnlyGeneralBama

Lighter.5631:

Rezzet.3614:

Lighter.5631:

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Daecollo.9578:

Fenrir.5493:

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors do more damage then thieves.

Axe autoattack’s 3 chain does more damage then backstab.
Whirling Wrath does more damage then backstab.

Lies, not even the 3 hists of axe autoattack are the same damage of 1 single backstab, even dagger autattack does more damage, what are you doing here in this forum?, you clearly have a thief that enjoys 1 hit killing people.

Fenrir, read my posts and check your eyes. I have a thief and a warrior. However I am here most of the time moreso then anywhere else.

You have read dozens of my posts here trying to fix the warrior, but YOU CAN SEE THE TOOLTIPS IN THE LINKS.

Backstab isn’t the 1-hit-kill attack you say it is. Its less damage then most other normal abilities.

I stopped reading when i read this part. Tell us you trolling right? :o

Can’t tell if you are bad at trolling or just bad at trolling.

what Daecollo said was actually true

Thief auto attack has an attack speed of 1/4 with dagger
heartseek does massive damage and has no cooldown
pistol whip is basically a 9 hit version of 100b with a stun
i ve seen cloak and dagger hit for up to 5k on me

i was talking about the one i quoted, which is heOneNOnlyGeneralBama

figured as much was too lazy to scroll up to his post :x

really, OP? 12k hp is practically nothing, dying to a thief doesnt make them “imbalanced.”
what happened here is a classic “i died to something, thus it’s OP.” thief is far from balanced, all it has is it’s burst which could be easily shrugged off if you actually had real defense/hp.

you want to kitten about being broken, go complain on the ele forums. sick of whiners like OP complaining about things that arent even remotely broken.

1. thieves cant “spam” stealth, and if they even tried, it’s initiative heavy, leaving them incredibly open.

2. d/d is heavily countered by anything with just as much upfront damage, especially if they cant get close to you via rifle/longbow; chipping away at them first.

3. if you had one of the things that actually countered thief, such as a shield/mace off, or hammer, you wouldnt have had this problem.

^ For me its more likely a comparing “hb du lut of dmg!!!!11” to a thief. Dealing with thiefs inst hard depending on their build (d/d is easier).

But dealing much highter dmg under 2sec inst fair by any means and they in fact dont get rooted by their attacks. I think thats the point.

Yet i keep hearing hb is so strong, making it mobile will be op and so on..While in reality its slighty stronger than regular reg hits due to might stacking+final hit

Also what BM ranger doing in warrior forums? Hi

Lighter.5631:

BAMBOO.9430:

Doopslayer.2304:

throw some aoes down and he will die.

Theorycraft. Or is it “theorywars” now? Sorry, either way.
(…)

dude, you should try what he said 1st, for real. if you still dont have your opinion changed,all i have to say is l2p

Hate to be “that guy”, but I play both of these classes to some success.
Kind of a silly assumption to make that warriors don’t also play thieves and thieves don’t also play warriors.

I believe i’m pretty good on these two (Granted, i make no claims to be the best or anything). Been playing MMO’s since before everquest launch, at this point I play everything pretty well. There is obviously room for improvement. We can all improve, no matter how good we are, to be honest.
…etc(it should be pretty clear where i’m going)

When I or another thief( or a warrior, a mesmer or w/e) comes through and says that “A good player has a good chance of anticipating your panic AoE spam”, you should consider that advice and also consider taking your own advice in light of that information.

As a simple closing statement, I don’t even play dagger MH that often, Sword/d setups are in a much better place right now, to be perfectly honest. Anyway, the point is that it’s still a pretty stealth reliant playstyle. I see and avoid panic spam every day. It’s not that hard to evade or just wait it out.

Try it yourself, roll a level 1 thief if you don’t have one yet, que up on spvp, load up on stealths, engage some lone guy on a point, pop an early BlindingPowder/ShadowRefuge/ShadowTrap then just roll away and watch the behavior. After some practice and observation of the people your fighting, you’ll learn to predict their reactions (dose the warrior even have a hammer equiped? Has he been equip swaping? you should know before you engage).

Then again, on my warrior, I do the same type of things to thieves. My point here isn’t to support the “thieves are imba” argument, just that the simpleminded “when X happens, do Y, then you win” logic is incredibly flawed. Sure, it’s a good start, and you do get better, but it’s never going to be a lasting solution.

As you get better, so does the other player.

Thief have a privilege to run in paper armor in wvw. OP invest in tougness till you get 2,8 – 3k armor. It may not save you but it can give you time to react.

I whink wow made a good choise and kept a good control on their stealth classes.
If you ambushed or garrotted from stealth… you were visible, and had to fight.
You had only 1 skill to get away as rogue.. vanish.
BUT, if you had a dot on you, you had to be very careful on the timing.

Comparing to GW2, and the insanely op thieves.
They have unlimited ways to restealth when ever they want. (part from 3 seconds ??)
They dont have to worry one bit about timing the stealth, because if you stealth with a dot on you… who cares…

But most of all… heavy armor, WAS heavy armor in wow also.
And if you needed more, you could swap to a shield during a rogue encounter.

In GW2 our shields are crap… read below and i show you why. its realy silly.

Ok, i have this shield on my guardian…
look at it.

Its a BIG kitten Towershield. its as big as my norn… i realy like it.

Now the stupid part.

My shield have 61 defense !!!!!
My smallest piece or armor. gloves. have 182 defense…

So, my shield is worth 1 / 3 of my gloves in defense… i mean seriously.
So my shield is helping to protect me as strong as 1 finger…

I think this finger gesture was made by A-net on purpose.
“here have an “innovated”… F** you shield… LOL,, we trolled youuu"…

Says a warrior, like you have room to talk. Thieves only do what they’re meant to do: deal tons of burst damage. But if you look at them they die. Squishy as hell. You on the other hand? HUEHUE GUYS 100BLADES INSTADEAD.

Khyber.2693:

Says a warrior, like you have room to talk. Thieves only do what they’re meant to do: deal tons of burst damage. But if you look at them they die. Squishy as hell. You on the other hand? HUEHUE GUYS 100BLADES INSTADEAD.

Watch guys a noob that dying to bullrushlolfrenzyhb combo

Opynn.2936:

Thief have a privilege to run in paper armor in wvw. OP invest in tougness till you get 2,8 – 3k armor. It may not save you but it can give you time to react.

Been there, done that…

It doesnt help for kitten.

If the thief is bad. you kill them no matter gear.
If the thief is moderate. they kill you. no matter gear YOU have.
if the thief is good. the thief will toy with you, and if he gets bored. you die in 2 – 4 seconds, no matter what gear you have.

and people saying killshot is op when compared to a stealth stabb.. ?? umm ye, right.
you ppl smoke much ? sounds like strong kitten,, care to share ?? =))

Scoobaniec.9561:

Says a warrior, like you have room to talk. Thieves only do what they’re meant to do: deal tons of burst damage. But if you look at them they die. Squishy as hell. You on the other hand? HUEHUE GUYS 100BLADES INSTADEAD.

I think its a minimum 40 second internal CD on frenzy… but what ever…
Heart strike spamming doesnt have an internal cd…

But i personaly react more to this you say: “Thieves only do what they’re meant to do”.

ok, so what is our warrior supposed to do, whats his job ??
please tell me… iam very curious about what you say…

Iam just gonna give you a little something to think about.
GW2 have no trinity… or so atleast A-net says… so… what is our job again ??
And more, what is your job as a thief again ??

eldain look at my post again..ahaha xd i dindt said what u quoted.

Scoobaniec.9561:

eldain look at my post again..ahaha xd i dindt said what u quoted.

Read a few posts lately , and apparently the quote system needs a nerfing. Hopefully somone will get around to creating a post pertaining to this soon.

lol so after people gave up on stealth, now they are whining on damage?

8k for a backstab on a heavy armor isn’t a lot for a full berzerker thief. I do 5k damage and I’m not even close to full berzerker.

Youtube whatever class you want showing some berzerker play in WvW, and check their damage…

Nickeloneon.8714:

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Scoobaniec.9561:

eldain look at my post again..ahaha xd i dindt said what u quoted.

Read a few posts lately , and apparently the quote system needs a nerfing. Hopefully somone will get around to creating a post pertaining to this soon.

NeRF Teef forum. They 2 OP. it’s make me QQ moar!,!!!! I deserve win not died. No need practice only be happy kill ez players. Ewwww teef need inteligence to kill. I No smart so i no like game cuz i cnt beat gooder players. nerf teef then nerfz thief forum so they no cnt fight back cuz too hard if ppl fight bak makez em OP and not so ez preys.

Let me guess “English isnt your first language”? I think we deserve an apology mate..

Nickeloneon.8714:

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Scoobaniec.9561:

eldain look at my post again..ahaha xd i dindt said what u quoted.

Read a few posts lately , and apparently the quote system needs a nerfing. Hopefully somone will get around to creating a post pertaining to this soon.

NeRF Teef forum. They 2 OP. it’s make me QQ moar!,!!!! I deserve win not died. No need practice only be happy kill ez players. Ewwww teef need inteligence to kill. I No smart so i no like game cuz i cnt beat gooder players. nerf teef then nerfz thief forum so they no cnt fight back cuz too hard if ppl fight bak makez em OP and not so ez preys.

This.

Oh this thread was started by a warrior….this is a joke then right?

Warrior complaining about Thief damage? Makes me kittenin lol. Warrior still does more burst damage than anyone else. Kill shot anyone? Greatsword DPS? C’mon, you can’t be serious crying about damage when you’re the highest damage profession in the game with the highest base defense and highest base HP.

Unless you’re really, really bad.

Ill make a serious suggestion to the OP, just to try and end this argument.
Sir, create a thief, go to PVP, put in zerker jewels, daggers, and “zerker” runes (wurm, eagle, scholar, your choice), there you got a full zerker thief, which should be like the one that killed you so fast. You’ll notice that, while you do “acceptable” damage and have stealth, which definitively is good support, you are in no way invulnerable, and will most definitively die in 2 seconds when someone counters or starts swinging his sword in the air.
I believe, and Im not trying to be rude or anything, that the thief who got you could have had serious skill or just caught you when you were distracted (which is basically a strategy for us to use, since we cant take more than 2 hits) therefore, having surprassed you in a way, he deserved to win… when I roll my thief and get 2 shattered by a mesmer, eaten by a ranger (or ranger’s pet), destroyed by a condition-happy engineer, sure I get frustrated, but most of the time I realize that those players just outskill me, and know how to counter my 2-sec burst with their 1-sec counter
Its a sincere suggestion, when I simply cant take head on a class, I usually roll that class for pvp only and try to understand how hard it is to play it and whakittens weaknesses are, believe me, it helps =)

eldain stenlund.4306:

we got into a fight with a mesmer.

Got mesmer down. was about to use the stomp.

I had 12 k hp left of my 20 total..

I saw a poff of smoke.. and then i was dead. looking at the target that killed me.
a Thief…

My first reaction was… wtf realy ?? 12 k hp.. insta killed. on heavy armor… seriously.

WTF is wrong with the Designers that should balance this game.

On top of the supreem mobility on a thief. it has invisibility. that not even Dots uncloak… they dont even leave a bleeding trail or anything… just… gone.
And Also thieves have this stupidly insane op burst dmg, wich you cant realy protect yourself against… your dead before you react.

Because the fight is like this most of the times:
I target a thief.. i start to shoot at him..he notice he gets dmg and vanish…
switch weapons to prepare melee…
2 seconds later. you see a poff of smoke around you.. THIEF…
You start to swing.. “my hp is fine, i get this”… “WTF.. iam down already ? its 2 seconds into fight”…

My warrior in 20 k hp.. have actually been 3 hitted by a thief..
It was the most stupid thing i have ever seen.
Sure, that thief had full zerker gear and low hp…
but who needs hp if you can 3 hit 20 k hp…

Feck, i dont want to know the dmg they can do against Light armor.
But i heard ppl in my guild getting 1 hitted………..

Maybe they should increase our base armor ? (like alot)…
Or nerf the thief insane dmg abit ?

I usualy find my thiev very boring to lvl… but iam REALY starting to think about joining the stupidly op side and lvl my thief to 80 also.

one in my guild occupied 6 ppl for 15 minutes…then they got lucky and could chain lock him.
So thieves are also super trollers… REALY good balance by A-net…

said a zerker warrior …
you should be ashamed, the warrior class is the most OP class in pve, along with the guardians
thieves have only wvw roaming, since we kinnda suck at everything else (aka another class does better)
when i think your class have INVULNERABILITY on shield, i think you should be banned for noobism
L2P-L2P-L2P-L2P-L2P-L2P-L2PL2P….. you get the point

NinjaEd.3946:

In wvw on my pvt warrior hammer with sword/warhorn….no issue with thieves. L2P you kitten scrubs. They are so overestimating thieves… you people just cannot grasp how simple they are.

Is stealth finsihing fair? no.

However, is mistform finishing fair? no.

Is stability finisher fair? in some cases no.

Is Ele being able to avoid certain death upon being downed for a couple extra seconds(and enter a wvw fort/tower?). NO!

You people just cry and cry… over and over… talk about the past.

In spvp my ranger has only 18k hp and I ended a theif duel in a draw. Why? because I know what thieves try to do/spam. Its entirely avoidable. Could prolly bring my warrior and duel a thief. Only difference is I would need to change my weapon sets. Thieves don’t get much boons. Abuse that alone with the fact that they arn’t invulnerable while in stealth and you will win.

(That duel on my ranger lasted like 6 minutes. Neither of us got downed. I’m not running bunker ranger but I do know how to dodge…)

tips:
perma stealth: yeah they arn’t damaging you…. dd reveals them

HS spam: you have to be afk to die to this… like really…

Condition spec: bleed and poison shoudln’t be your issue. If it is you arn’t paying enough attention to condi removal or have no condi removal.

Stealth spam: See a thief stealth? back off. The more they have to travel the more stealth duration they waste. If they get within 900-1200 range (you should be able to eyeball that this late in the game) dodge, especially if they have Basilik venom on. Thieves are SOOO easy to counter if you know how their skills behave.

Nice try at blocking my reply to you by reporting me. Let me post here it here again since it was upvoted:

You run PVT coz you run in a zerg and if you aren’t, then whats the point?. You won’t kill any good thief with your burst lacking pvt gear.

Stealth is up all the time for thief to finish on. Mist form and stability are not. You obviously played the warrior class, the class didn’t carry you so you switched to thief as your posts suggest. Either way you don’t understand how thieves work since you did not mention shadowstep stomping. Most likely you never knew the thing exists.

How about Aegis stomping? Distortion stomping -that is a mesmer stomp, btw!-?
I’m sure you never knew these things existed.

Who cares about an ele mist forming into a tower..? Wow..that is..just..game breaking..

Your playing the most broken class in spvp now -ranger or thief- and bragging? Are you also the ranger type that runs into the water when he is about to go down?

Some of us play the warrior class because we don’t need the class to carry us hard core.

Looking forward to commenting on your future ‘informed’ replies.

Milo Rock.2457:

Ill make a serious suggestion to the OP, just to try and end this argument.
Sir, create a thief, go to PVP, put in zerker jewels, daggers, and “zerker” runes (wurm, eagle, scholar, your choice), there you got a full zerker thief, which should be like the one that killed you so fast. You’ll notice that, while you do “acceptable” damage and have stealth, which definitively is good support, you are in no way invulnerable, and will most definitively die in 2 seconds when someone counters or starts swinging his sword in the air.
I believe, and Im not trying to be rude or anything, that the thief who got you could have had serious skill or just caught you when you were distracted (which is basically a strategy for us to use, since we cant take more than 2 hits) therefore, having surprassed you in a way, he deserved to win… when I roll my thief and get 2 shattered by a mesmer, eaten by a ranger (or ranger’s pet), destroyed by a condition-happy engineer, sure I get frustrated, but most of the time I realize that those players just outskill me, and know how to counter my 2-sec burst with their 1-sec counter
Its a sincere suggestion, when I simply cant take head on a class, I usually roll that class for pvp only and try to understand how hard it is to play it and whakittens weaknesses are, believe me, it helps =)

Nobody can counter a shadow step on zero cool down, spammable, breaks stun, bypasses immobilize.

You can’t counter what you can’t see..ever heard about dodging? Well thieves haven’t since we can’t dodge an attack we can’t see. Funny that..a broken mechanic that bypasses dodge completely..

How about stealth and shadowstep stomping that completely bypasses the downed state?

Stealth revive?

Perma stealth with D/P?

Removing condition and healing while stealth? Stealth doesn’t break on being damaged?

Please stop pretending the class needs all that.. Only bad players need all that.

How about you roll a warrior and see how well you do? You won’t..because the broken thief class carries the player who abuses its mechanics big time.

I play both classes, more warrior these days and it’s seriously out of balance. Any thief that says otherwise are just not skilled yet to play one well or are just plain lying. It’s not even close with a properly traited thief. Blinds are out of hand. We are at a flat disadvantage going into the fight with your ability to heal when stealthed to reset fights (yes any thief with a clue will trait this way) and the insane amount of blinds you all have.

Heck, the instant stealth when health reaches a certain point or even the AOE blind when stealthing is over the top.

I would argue thieves in general are over the top in WvW because of their tradeoff. There really isn’t much of a trade off – it should be HIGH RISK = HIGH REWARD but even with 13K or less hits the traits and utilities makes them machines to control the fight, engage when they want, do insane burst, get out when they want, and keep ticking. The only time I see them fall is when they make a blatant mistake or a zerg spots them. This is the really good ones. The difference is though, is that the really good warriors still lose more than 50% of the time against a well traited and knowledgeable thief.

XII.9401:

Milo Rock.2457:

Ill make a serious suggestion to the OP, just to try and end this argument.
Sir, create a thief, go to PVP, put in zerker jewels, daggers, and “zerker” runes (wurm, eagle, scholar, your choice), there you got a full zerker thief, which should be like the one that killed you so fast. You’ll notice that, while you do “acceptable” damage and have stealth, which definitively is good support, you are in no way invulnerable, and will most definitively die in 2 seconds when someone counters or starts swinging his sword in the air.
I believe, and Im not trying to be rude or anything, that the thief who got you could have had serious skill or just caught you when you were distracted (which is basically a strategy for us to use, since we cant take more than 2 hits) therefore, having surprassed you in a way, he deserved to win… when I roll my thief and get 2 shattered by a mesmer, eaten by a ranger (or ranger’s pet), destroyed by a condition-happy engineer, sure I get frustrated, but most of the time I realize that those players just outskill me, and know how to counter my 2-sec burst with their 1-sec counter
Its a sincere suggestion, when I simply cant take head on a class, I usually roll that class for pvp only and try to understand how hard it is to play it and whakittens weaknesses are, believe me, it helps =)

Nobody can counter a shadow step on zero cool down, spammable, breaks stun, bypasses immobilize.

You can’t counter what you can’t see..ever heard about dodging? Well thieves haven’t since we can’t dodge an attack we can’t see. Funny that..a broken mechanic that bypasses dodge completely..

How about stealth and shadowstep stomping that completely bypasses the downed state?

Stealth revive?

Perma stealth with D/P?

Removing condition and healing while stealth? Stealth doesn’t break on being damaged?

Please stop pretending the class needs all that.. Only bad players need all that.

How about you roll a warrior and see how well you do? You won’t..because the broken thief class carries the player who abuses its mechanics big time.

You did a good job summarizing here. The utility a thief has that in some cases happen automatically is insane. Where is the ONE thief that would agree to what we’re saying? Any credible thieves actually play this profession that is active on the boards?

eldain stenlund.4306:

Here is the gear iam using.. and the gear i have been 3 hitted in.
I whould think that 2.5 k armor + 20 k hp, whould be enough…
(edit: it only look like 18.9k on stats. but its actually 19.8 on life bottle/screen).

But it seems that Armor classes in this game are just cosmetics.
I have like 600 – 800 more armor than my elemental, wich is using light…
Now thats just plain weird.

Maybe i live in a different reality…
But i honestly think that heavy metal armors should protect a hell of a lot more than cloth.

in GW2:
my Heavy, metal armor.
is helping to protect me the same as if i whould use recycled toilettpaper…
it doesnt seem to help for schit…

Who does the whole tought processing at A-net ??
Who ever it is, he/she must live in a very very very strange reality.

Just on a side note:
My 1 hand weapons, do the same dmg as my BIG kitten sword and super sledge hammer…???
In my reality, people made BIG 2 handed weapons to inflict a TON more dmg per swing…
My test against lvl 80 wolves. found in wvw. iam traited for rifle. nothing else.
my 1 hand axe. auto crits = 1.800-2.400.
my 2 hand great sword. auto crits = 1.400 – 2.000 umm… wtf… its less… ?? !! ???
my 2 hand hammer. auto crits = 2.400 – 3.100. now we are atleast on the right way…

2.5k armor and 20k HP for a warrior is pretty much glass cannon status.

i have 2.5k armor and 17k HP for my thief and it’s medium armor with the lowest base HP….

eldain stenlund.4306:

we got into a fight with a mesmer.

Got mesmer down. was about to use the stomp.

I had 12 k hp left of my 20 total..

I saw a poff of smoke.. and then i was dead. looking at the target that killed me.
a Thief…

My first reaction was… wtf realy ?? 12 k hp.. insta killed. on heavy armor… seriously.

WTF is wrong with the Designers that should balance this game.

On top of the supreem mobility on a thief. it has invisibility. that not even Dots uncloak… they dont even leave a bleeding trail or anything… just… gone.
And Also thieves have this stupidly insane op burst dmg, wich you cant realy protect yourself against… your dead before you react.

Because the fight is like this most of the times:
I target a thief.. i start to shoot at him..he notice he gets dmg and vanish…
switch weapons to prepare melee…
2 seconds later. you see a poff of smoke around you.. THIEF…
You start to swing.. “my hp is fine, i get this”… “WTF.. iam down already ? its 2 seconds into fight”…

My warrior in 20 k hp.. have actually been 3 hitted by a thief..
It was the most stupid thing i have ever seen.
Sure, that thief had full zerker gear and low hp…
but who needs hp if you can 3 hit 20 k hp…

Feck, i dont want to know the dmg they can do against Light armor.
But i heard ppl in my guild getting 1 hitted………..

Maybe they should increase our base armor ? (like alot)…
Or nerf the thief insane dmg abit ?

I usualy find my thiev very boring to lvl… but iam REALY starting to think about joining the stupidly op side and lvl my thief to 80 also.

one in my guild occupied 6 ppl for 15 minutes…then they got lucky and could chain lock him.
So thieves are also super trollers… REALY good balance by A-net…

You completely lack any credibility with this point. Do not generalize all thieves. Sure you got pwned hard by someone but that doesn’t mean all builds have enough damage.

P/D, S/P, and P/P all need damage BUFFS.

Fiorrello.8126:

wow, thread is 30 minutes old and not single thief is here telling you to L2P.

must be a record.

If a lot of people are telling you that you need to learn to play, maybe you should learn something instead of blaming everybody else.

style.6173:

eldain stenlund.4306:

we got into a fight with a mesmer.

Got mesmer down. was about to use the stomp.

I had 12 k hp left of my 20 total..

I saw a poff of smoke.. and then i was dead. looking at the target that killed me.
a Thief…

My first reaction was… wtf realy ?? 12 k hp.. insta killed. on heavy armor… seriously.

WTF is wrong with the Designers that should balance this game.

On top of the supreem mobility on a thief. it has invisibility. that not even Dots uncloak… they dont even leave a bleeding trail or anything… just… gone.
And Also thieves have this stupidly insane op burst dmg, wich you cant realy protect yourself against… your dead before you react.

Because the fight is like this most of the times:
I target a thief.. i start to shoot at him..he notice he gets dmg and vanish…
switch weapons to prepare melee…
2 seconds later. you see a poff of smoke around you.. THIEF…
You start to swing.. “my hp is fine, i get this”… “WTF.. iam down already ? its 2 seconds into fight”…

My warrior in 20 k hp.. have actually been 3 hitted by a thief..
It was the most stupid thing i have ever seen.
Sure, that thief had full zerker gear and low hp…
but who needs hp if you can 3 hit 20 k hp…

Feck, i dont want to know the dmg they can do against Light armor.
But i heard ppl in my guild getting 1 hitted………..

Maybe they should increase our base armor ? (like alot)…
Or nerf the thief insane dmg abit ?

I usualy find my thiev very boring to lvl… but iam REALY starting to think about joining the stupidly op side and lvl my thief to 80 also.

one in my guild occupied 6 ppl for 15 minutes…then they got lucky and could chain lock him.
So thieves are also super trollers… REALY good balance by A-net…

You completely lack any credibility with this point. Do not generalize all thieves. Sure you got pwned hard by someone but that doesn’t mean all builds have enough damage.

P/D, S/P, and P/P all need damage BUFFS.

So D/D , S/D and D/P are good? That is just dandy..thieves wanting even more viable builds to compliment their broken mechanics while the rest of us struggle with one pigeon hole build in pvp.

Excalibur.9748:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Here is the gear iam using.. and the gear i have been 3 hitted in.
I whould think that 2.5 k armor + 20 k hp, whould be enough…
(edit: it only look like 18.9k on stats. but its actually 19.8 on life bottle/screen).

But it seems that Armor classes in this game are just cosmetics.
I have like 600 – 800 more armor than my elemental, wich is using light…
Now thats just plain weird.

Maybe i live in a different reality…
But i honestly think that heavy metal armors should protect a hell of a lot more than cloth.

in GW2:
my Heavy, metal armor.
is helping to protect me the same as if i whould use recycled toilettpaper…
it doesnt seem to help for schit…

Who does the whole tought processing at A-net ??
Who ever it is, he/she must live in a very very very strange reality.

Just on a side note:
My 1 hand weapons, do the same dmg as my BIG kitten sword and super sledge hammer…???
In my reality, people made BIG 2 handed weapons to inflict a TON more dmg per swing…
My test against lvl 80 wolves. found in wvw. iam traited for rifle. nothing else.
my 1 hand axe. auto crits = 1.800-2.400.
my 2 hand great sword. auto crits = 1.400 – 2.000 umm… wtf… its less… ?? !! ???
my 2 hand hammer. auto crits = 2.400 – 3.100. now we are atleast on the right way…

2.5k armor and 20k HP for a warrior is pretty much glass cannon status.

i have 2.5k armor and 17k HP for my thief and it’s medium armor with the lowest base HP….

You can go full knight and you will still drop. It just takes longer.

Why? Because thieves can reset the fight repeatedly and can get out of any cc/immobilize using spammable shadow steps.

Anyone knows that toughness/vit doesn’t help you against damage as much as protection does. Warriors have no access to it beyond some silly runes.

Sounds to me like warriors are sitting targets and those with tankier gear are ones that just take longer to die.

How about you play a warrior and frap to show us how well you do with tanky gear?

Scoobaniec.9561:

Khyber.2693:

Says a warrior, like you have room to talk. Thieves only do what they’re meant to do: deal tons of burst damage. But if you look at them they die. Squishy as hell. You on the other hand? HUEHUE GUYS 100BLADES INSTADEAD.

Watch guys a noob that dying to bullrushlolfrenzyhb combo

good timed bullrushlolfrenzyhb can be the deadliest thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnibXlp2vQg
maybe not the best example, but you get the idea.
bullrushfrenzyhb is the best combo a gs lb zerker warrior can have imo.

XII.9401:

Excalibur.9748:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Here is the gear iam using.. and the gear i have been 3 hitted in.
I whould think that 2.5 k armor + 20 k hp, whould be enough…
(edit: it only look like 18.9k on stats. but its actually 19.8 on life bottle/screen).

But it seems that Armor classes in this game are just cosmetics.
I have like 600 – 800 more armor than my elemental, wich is using light…
Now thats just plain weird.

Maybe i live in a different reality…
But i honestly think that heavy metal armors should protect a hell of a lot more than cloth.

in GW2:
my Heavy, metal armor.
is helping to protect me the same as if i whould use recycled toilettpaper…
it doesnt seem to help for schit…

Who does the whole tought processing at A-net ??
Who ever it is, he/she must live in a very very very strange reality.

Just on a side note:
My 1 hand weapons, do the same dmg as my BIG kitten sword and super sledge hammer…???
In my reality, people made BIG 2 handed weapons to inflict a TON more dmg per swing…
My test against lvl 80 wolves. found in wvw. iam traited for rifle. nothing else.
my 1 hand axe. auto crits = 1.800-2.400.
my 2 hand great sword. auto crits = 1.400 – 2.000 umm… wtf… its less… ?? !! ???
my 2 hand hammer. auto crits = 2.400 – 3.100. now we are atleast on the right way…

2.5k armor and 20k HP for a warrior is pretty much glass cannon status.

i have 2.5k armor and 17k HP for my thief and it’s medium armor with the lowest base HP….

You can go full knight and you will still drop. It just takes longer.

Why? Because thieves can reset the fight repeatedly and can get out of any cc/immobilize using spammable shadow steps.

Anyone knows that toughness/vit doesn’t help you against damage as much as protection does. Warriors have no access to it beyond some silly runes.

Sounds to me like warriors are sitting targets and those with tankier gear are ones that just take longer to die.

How about you play a warrior and frap to show us how well you do with tanky gear?

Why not leave roaming to thieves and do what warriors are good at, eg PvE and ZvZ?

BAMBOO.9430:

Lighter.5631:

BAMBOO.9430:

Doopslayer.2304:

throw some aoes down and he will die.

Theorycraft. Or is it “theorywars” now? Sorry, either way.
(…)

dude, you should try what he said 1st, for real. if you still dont have your opinion changed,all i have to say is l2p

Hate to be “that guy”, but I play both of these classes to some success.
Kind of a silly assumption to make that warriors don’t also play thieves and thieves don’t also play warriors.

I believe i’m pretty good on these two (Granted, i make no claims to be the best or anything). Been playing MMO’s since before everquest launch, at this point I play everything pretty well. There is obviously room for improvement. We can all improve, no matter how good we are, to be honest.
…etc(it should be pretty clear where i’m going)

When I or another thief( or a warrior, a mesmer or w/e) comes through and says that “A good player has a good chance of anticipating your panic AoE spam”, you should consider that advice and also consider taking your own advice in light of that information.

As a simple closing statement, I don’t even play dagger MH that often, Sword/d setups are in a much better place right now, to be perfectly honest. Anyway, the point is that it’s still a pretty stealth reliant playstyle. I see and avoid panic spam every day. It’s not that hard to evade or just wait it out.

Try it yourself, roll a level 1 thief if you don’t have one yet, que up on spvp, load up on stealths, engage some lone guy on a point, pop an early BlindingPowder/ShadowRefuge/ShadowTrap then just roll away and watch the behavior. After some practice and observation of the people your fighting, you’ll learn to predict their reactions (dose the warrior even have a hammer equiped? Has he been equip swaping? you should know before you engage).

Then again, on my warrior, I do the same type of things to thieves. My point here isn’t to support the “thieves are imba” argument, just that the simpleminded “when X happens, do Y, then you win” logic is incredibly flawed. Sure, it’s a good start, and you do get better, but it’s never going to be a lasting solution.

As you get better, so does the other player.

congrats for making no point at all

12 out of 20k which is 60% of your full HP. lets put a thief into your position. 14k is norm for a thief HP….60% of that is 8400 hp…… no a thief is stomping that mesmer with 8400 hp and NEVER has stability on for it :P ….any class can go poof game over you r dead :P try stomping as a thief…..we have it the worst. even with invis to stomp. we get block back …pulled….pushed….knocked down and stunned/dazed.

Bear in mind, that toughness/armor does not scale nearly as well as power/damage does. I’ve run 3100 armor on my P/D thief, and I’ve seen very large hits from various classes despite this.

I’ve said time and again that if you want to invest in defense, you should get more of a return on toughness than we currently do. It wouldn’t have to be as much as a return that power gets, but 3K+ armor shouldn’t be letting as much damage through as it currently does.

@fade fade is right. thief gets hit no matter what VERY hard lol. so if u want defense…go with vitality and perhaps healing.

meh maybe if your a glass cannon. I dont get that hit that hard considering i evade most hits and has invisibility plus shadow returns.

anyways, the point is a warrior with those stats is a glass cannon and should not be roaming at all.

Excalibur.9748:

meh maybe if your a glass cannon. I dont get that hit that hard considering i evade most hits and has invisibility plus shadow steps.

anyways, the point is a warrior with those stats is a glass cannon and should not be roaming at all.

instead they come to QQ on our forum asking for MORE nerfs
please go COF p1, and leave us alone, 10x

@excalibur u do get hit that hard. :P WHEN u get hit…..u Do get hit that hard…..evading is a different conversation. also theres no way that thief should have gotten a stomp of when whoever it was was stomping the mesmer unless they were alone and roaming. its really ahrd for a thief to stomp when in larger groups. ive been at 80% hp with 14k hp and died before i even finish my stomp :/ it happens but i dont complain.

eldain stenlund.4306:

If you want a similar test.. just take a 2 mm thick metal sheet… then take a knife.. and stabb away all you like.. you never gonna hurt the metal.

You were saying?

XII.9401:

Milo Rock.2457:

Ill make a serious suggestion to the OP, just to try and end this argument.
Sir, create a thief, go to PVP, put in zerker jewels, daggers, and “zerker” runes (wurm, eagle, scholar, your choice), there you got a full zerker thief, which should be like the one that killed you so fast. You’ll notice that, while you do “acceptable” damage and have stealth, which definitively is good support, you are in no way invulnerable, and will most definitively die in 2 seconds when someone counters or starts swinging his sword in the air.
I believe, and Im not trying to be rude or anything, that the thief who got you could have had serious skill or just caught you when you were distracted (which is basically a strategy for us to use, since we cant take more than 2 hits) therefore, having surprassed you in a way, he deserved to win… when I roll my thief and get 2 shattered by a mesmer, eaten by a ranger (or ranger’s pet), destroyed by a condition-happy engineer, sure I get frustrated, but most of the time I realize that those players just outskill me, and know how to counter my 2-sec burst with their 1-sec counter
Its a sincere suggestion, when I simply cant take head on a class, I usually roll that class for pvp only and try to understand how hard it is to play it and whakittens weaknesses are, believe me, it helps =)

Nobody can counter a shadow step on zero cool down, spammable, breaks stun, bypasses immobilize.

You can’t counter what you can’t see..ever heard about dodging? Well thieves haven’t since we can’t dodge an attack we can’t see. Funny that..a broken mechanic that bypasses dodge completely..

How about stealth and shadowstep stomping that completely bypasses the downed state?

Stealth revive?

Perma stealth with D/P?

Removing condition and healing while stealth? Stealth doesn’t break on being damaged?

Please stop pretending the class needs all that.. Only bad players need all that.

How about you roll a warrior and see how well you do? You won’t..because the broken thief class carries the player who abuses its mechanics big time.

I dont know what your problem is =/ im trying to be actually helpful here and not brag about everything you dont like about some class, sure we got resources to defend ourselves, so do every class in this game, i dont like being stomped by an engineer that uses Elixir S or destroyed by a shatter mesmer (as I said before), in fact, I have to be extra careful when I roll my thief, avoiding fights, choosing when to strike, I cant just run into the action and hope for the best, I’d just get destroyed, fast. Actually, if I just want to charge into battle, spam skills, kill everyone, have beast recovery and lots of blocking skills, I use a zerk guardian, its way more easier and effective than using a thief.
Bottom line, please let’s mantain this conversation helpful, you get nothing showing me what a thief can do, since every class got their own ways to deal with different situations. No class “carries” a “bad player”, a bad thief spams HS and gets killed in 2 secs, if a thief killed you, he outskilled you/caught you, thats my point, respawn and try again, no big deal

PS: I also roll a warrior, sorry to dissapoint you, I do pretty well in pvp doing teamwork, I wouldnt charge by myself like I do in PvE, but it doesnt matter, in pvp everything is different-

eldain stenlund.4306:

I saw a poff of smoke.. and then i was dead. looking at the target that killed me.
a Thief…

The only reason you died is because you ignored the Thief. You saw a puff of smoke and still continue on to finish off the Mesmer.

If you reacted by defending yourself, you wouldn’t have died — and you know it.

This is not about the Thief, even an Elemetalist or Necro, if ignored will kill you too.

I was on my bunker thief once, 19k hp, I had stunbreaker on cooldown.
Then suddenly I hear the warrior charge sound behind me, I get knocked down,
the warrior pressed 1 button (hundred blades) and I died, wtf???

Warrior damage really??? with those knockdowns -_____________-

Could happen to someone finishing off a mesmer too if he ignores the warrior.

Deathspike.1870:

eldain stenlund.4306:

If you want a similar test.. just take a 2 mm thick metal sheet… then take a knife.. and stabb away all you like.. you never gonna hurt the metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K31n2tj7Qi8

You were saying?

funny vid. but thats a katana sword… and the chair is likely 1 mm max if even that.
hope you have a vid of a 2 – 3 mm metal video.
good luck i say.

2mm is the lightest metal armors. (normal for chest plate for richer foot soldier).
the heavy metal armors were 2 – 3 mm. (standard armors for knights).
and when Gunpowder came. some used even up to 5 – 6 mm…

If you want proof of effectiveness of metal armors.
just go study the crusades the church did in middle east.

they knights wore heavy metal armor.
they faced swords and arrows and things like that.

They couldnt penetrate the crusaders metal armors.
wich is why the crusaders only needed a fraction of the army and still win.

the crusaders were like a moving brick wall… a real juggernaut.

And if you want to know what a 2 handed great sword could do to leather armor…
well.. 1 swing… cutting of limbs… arms and legs, was no match for a greatsword.
While the dagger didnt even scratch the paint of the knights armor…

You were saying ?

Ghostwolf.9863:

I was on my bunker thief once, 19k hp, I had stunbreaker on cooldown.
Then suddenly I hear the warrior charge sound behind me, I get knocked down,
the warrior pressed 1 button (hundred blades) and I died, wtf???

Warrior damage really??? with those knockdowns -_____________-

Could happen to someone finishing off a mesmer too if he ignores the warrior.

yes, its very fair and makes total sense…
comparing our internal 40 second cooldown we have on frenzy + 40 second cd bullcharge… against… something a thief can spam…

edit: forgot… when a warrior charge in to use 100crap skill.
He will be stuck in there, and have a hard time to get out…
You playing a thief can get in there, kill/down one in 2 seconds spamming one skill,
and if things get heated… you simply shadowstep away, or leap, or stealth.

yep, you are clearly right.. thieves need much more dmg to compensate.
and warriors need to run around naked… and forbid GS + bullcharge in combination.

Dont you see that something is realy very totaly wrong with how A-net balancing things ?
I dont like 100crap either, i think its a bullkitten skill.
Stationary crap in a constantly shifting surrounding. doesnt make any sense realy.

and no, i dont want it mobile and still have the dmg it does.
i dont want the skill at all. (why i never use GS anymore).

eldain stenlund.4306:

Ghostwolf.9863:

I was on my bunker thief once, 19k hp, I had stunbreaker on cooldown.
Then suddenly I hear the warrior charge sound behind me, I get knocked down,
the warrior pressed 1 button (hundred blades) and I died, wtf???

Warrior damage really??? with those knockdowns -_____________-

Could happen to someone finishing off a mesmer too if he ignores the warrior.

yes, its very fair and makes total sense…
comparing our internal 40 second cooldown we have on frenzy + 40 second cd bullcharge… against… something a thief can spam…

yep, you are clearly right.. thieves need much more dmg to compensate.
and warriors need to run around naked… and forbid GS + bullcharge in combination.

Dont you see that something is realy very totaly wrong with how A-net balancing things ?
I dont like 100crap either, i think its a bullkitten skill.
Stationary crap in a constantly shifting surrounding. doesnt make any sense realy.

and no, i dont want it mobile and still have the dmg it does.
i dont want the skill at all. (why i never use GS anymore).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triple_Chop

Okay click the links, look at the base damages, which one is higher? Now think about it a moment, which one is a spammable autoattack? and which one requires stealth (either another attack like cnd, or multiple attacks bps+hs) or a long cd utillity, AND requires position behind an enemy.

not splitting hairs but that chair is around 4mm or more thick. :P pretty sturdy.

@ ELDAIN STENLUND …… tell u what…if u wanna have only 1 weapon set then ill say ur right. but until then u have just as much skills as us to use if not more. we only have one weapon set ….or rather one set of skills to use bc both sets use the same cooldown aka intitiative system. so when we “spam” a skill 2 or 3 or even 4 x in a row….sometimes 5 if we have init regen or gain up, then we are out of initiative and out of skills. so we spam something 5 x then it takes 15-16 secs to repeat that same exact spam set. for a warrior…. u can use skill 1 2 3 4 5 then swap then 1 2 3 4 5….so in the same time you have 10 skills spammed vs our 5 before you ahve to wait to use mroe….but the best thing about warrior is soon as the next 8 secs are up you can do it all over again! so where we wait 15 or 16 secs for a refill u just swap after 8 and all ur attacks are up again. not to mention your 20% cooldowns and -1 sec weaponswap option plus another -1 on sigil if u choose. so yeah thieves come up way short when it comes to spamming skills ya?