Guild Wars 2

since everyone hates our class because they dont want to battle hidden enemies…

if im a programmer and works for anet,

thieves would go this way,

i would remove stealth ability on weapon skills, but in return all skills would require positional requirements,

eg, backstab will always land a powerful damage at the back only without stealth damage is reduced to 50% when a thief hits the enemy at the front
damage is reduced to 25% when a thief hit the sides

pistol skills will have more damage when facing directly facing the opponent eye to eye, less damage when facing the back

sword will always daze for .25 secs when hitting the sides only of the opponent

shortbow every fifth #1 will immobilize opponent

since no more stealth skills we be available in any weapon sets, a little tweak will be introduced to Shadow Arts Tree

grand master tree :

X:thieves initiative: gain initiative when you dodge

XI: (insert name) when a thief stands for more than 5 seconds without moving he will gain stealth and breaks stealth when he moves (like the ash legion spy kit)

XII: thieves paradise : when two or more thieves are running together (radius 360)they gain regeneration

and other tweak to traits that utilize stealth

In short: our access to indemand stealth will be only from utility skills.

this is my idea

.25 daze. Why take S/D over S/P at that point?

Oldgrimm.8521:

if im a programmer and works for anet,

thieves would go this way,

I’m glad you’re not a programmer and works for anet.

With all due respect, of course..

Just get rid of abilities like C&D and blinding powder, and introduce traditional stealth mechanism (for F1 instead of shadowstep) with a few new ideas. Give unique traits improving stealth for each of the trait lines.
Popping in and out of stealth is irritating to fight against (mesmers aswell), and continously nerfing it will just lead to rage of people playing this class.

But arena net denies the fact the current stealth is bad, and they will never change it. And if they somehow do, it will take them 5 or more years to introduce.

Dagins.5163:

Just get rid of abilities like C&D and blinding powder, and introduce traditional stealth mechanism (for F1 instead of shadowstep) with a few new ideas. Give unique traits improving stealth for each of the trait lines.
Popping in and out of stealth is irritating to fight against, and continously nerfing it will just lead to rage of people playing this class.

I’m even more glad that you’re not a programmer and works for anet.

BACKSTAB IS TEH OLNEE WAY GAIS LOL

I’d remove movement from thieves and make it so as soon as they are made the teleport to the middle of WvW zones unable to move with no armour, any attack they do increases the damage they take and summons other players to them, they also give over 9000 badges when they are killed and ANY player can kill them regardless of which world they are from!

Or people could just learn that stealth is not invincibility nor is it a guarantee escape nor an instant death attack. They could learn how different variations of the thief uses there abilities and how each one works and figure out that against most bad thieves all they have to do is turn/move forwards.

I want the Thief to actual steal something and keeps it.

“I’m sorry, did this belong to you?” (talking about the legendary greatsword)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I want the Thief to actual steal something and keeps it.

“I’m sorry, did this belong to you?” (talking about the legendary greatsword)

Well I don’t know about actual items, but stealing a random skill off the bar of the player you’re fighting (like put it on CD and have it available for the thief to use) rather than a set skill stolen per class would be awesome. (more variety)

Adaneshade.2409:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I want the Thief to actual steal something and keeps it.

“I’m sorry, did this belong to you?” (talking about the legendary greatsword)

Well I don’t know about actual items, but stealing a random skill off the bar of the player you’re fighting (like put it on CD and have it available for the thief to use) rather than a set skill stolen per class would be awesome. (more variety)

No, that would equate to RNG dictating the outcome of the fight. Steal in PvP was random during beta, and people railed against it.

I feel stolen items should more appropriately assist you in fighting the class you stole it from, but I think it’s pretty good as-is…

Adaneshade.2409:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I want the Thief to actual steal something and keeps it.

“I’m sorry, did this belong to you?” (talking about the legendary greatsword)

Well I don’t know about actual items, but stealing a random skill off the bar of the player you’re fighting (like put it on CD and have it available for the thief to use) rather than a set skill stolen per class would be awesome. (more variety)

That would be neat if it was a trait in the trickery tree. Steal a random utility skill from a player.

Edit: I don’t know about putting the players skill on CD though (unless it was a reduced CD) The idea its self sounds like it could be overpowered (depending on what you steal) let alone putting the skill on CD. I know for me my utility’s are my main defense getting one stolen to CD would probably kill me.

Steal is relatively fine as is. A Thief stealing from a Mesmer is awesome (for the Thief … sucks for the Mesmer … who doesn’t want every boon in the game? It’s friggin Runes of Lyssa without having to take Runes of Lyssa.

As far as Thieves and stealth … I think the current reveal change could very well be sufficient. With it, anyone fighting a thief knows that they have 3 seconds after that thief pops of stealth, no matter what, before the thief has a chance to re-stealth.

Sebrent.3625:

Steal is relatively fine as is. A Thief stealing from a Mesmer is awesome (for the Thief … sucks for the Mesmer … who doesn’t want every boon in the game? It’s friggin Runes of Lyssa without having to take Runes of Lyssa.

As far as Thieves and stealth … I think the current reveal change could very well be sufficient. With it, anyone fighting a thief knows that they have 3 seconds after that thief pops of stealth, no matter what, before the thief has a chance to re-stealth.

This is a “what if…” thread. Use your imagination and share it.

What if Thief has more built in evades on their weapon skills? They’d have too many evades with some builds… as they honestly currently do already due to easy access to Vigor and having the only trait that effectively reduces the cost of dodge rolling instead of increasing endurance regen … thereby stacking extremely well with vigor. That combined with dodgetrops would be too much.

Bad class design is plaguing the class and preventing it from having certain changes as “good” options :-/

Its almost like people have never played an MMO with a stealth class before really…

Sure other mmo’s contain a ton of reveals rather than a 3s duration but they also compensate for that with permastun systems for the thief, which is worse than a constantly disappearing thief as you actually don’t have any way to fight back during the chain stun compared to now where you can basically just fight like normal even when they vanish and have a good chance of killing them.

Sebrent.3625:

What if Thief has more built in evades on their weapon skills? They’d have too many evades with some builds… as they honestly currently do already due to easy access to Vigor and having the only trait that effectively reduces the cost of dodge rolling instead of increasing endurance regen … thereby stacking extremely well with vigor.

Define “easy access” because blowing a heal or sinking deep into a condition damage tree (while still being on a 30+ second CD) is by no means ideal…

15 trait points in the tree that will give you +15% boon duration … vigor on heal and use less endurance per dodge. That 8 seconds of vigor is already 9.2 with that +15% boon duration.

15 sec cooldown on two heals (12 if signet traited).

Bountiful theft gives Vigor.

One heal has a dodge built into it.
One utility has a dodge built into it.
Dagger+Dagger #3 (Death Blossom) has a dodge built into it.

Yes, you have to invest points and/or use skills to gain vigor … so does everyone else.

Laika.8795:

I’m even more glad that you’re not a programmer and works for anet.

BACKSTAB IS TEH OLNEE WAY GAIS LOL

Such a mature and constructive counterargument.

Thieves should be all about attacking from stealth to surprise their foes to gain advantage, and it doesn’t really mean bursting them down with backstab from 100-0% hp. It can be also some temporary heavy debuff, or self buff. This is thing number one. Second are active abilities, which give short but strong damage reduction. Thieves should have limitted self-healing to minimum, but in GW2, they are heal bots with no “risk and reward” play style.

Sebrent.3625:

15 trait points in the tree that will give you +15% boon duration … vigor on heal and use less endurance per dodge. That 8 seconds of vigor is already 9.2 with that +15% boon duration.

15 sec cooldown on two heals (12 if signet traited).

Bountiful theft gives Vigor.

One heal has a dodge built into it.
One utility has a dodge built into it.
Dagger+Dagger #3 (Death Blossom) has a dodge built into it.

Yes, you have to invest points and/or use skills to gain vigor … so does everyone else.

First of all, every thief #3 skill is a dodge/evade except P/x, although you could technically consider Shadow Stab in P/D an evade-ish move (even tho currently underused, but may change with the patch)…

Bountiful theft is in a tree almost exclusively for condition damage thieves, so that’s pretty narrowly focused, and again, still tied to 30+ second CD.

Vigorous recovery is the only multi-faceted trait that grants vigor, and you’re kinda stretching in expanding on the usefulness of +1 second in 15 points down the trait line. But it requires you to blow a heal, so if you want to trigger your vigor (RHYME BONUS) you’ll either have to waste a very important CD or be injured enough to warrant such a skill being used.

As for other classes getting vigor on skill use, many have vigor on crit (which I think is something that would be infinitely more useful), rangers don’t even need vigor thanks to a passive vigor trait…

I think we’re mediocre on vigor acquisition, in comparison.

Sebrent.3625:

15 trait points in the tree that will give you +15% boon duration … vigor on heal and use less endurance per dodge. That 8 seconds of vigor is already 9.2 with that +15% boon duration.

15 sec cooldown on two heals (12 if signet traited).

Bountiful theft gives Vigor.

One heal has a dodge built into it.
One utility has a dodge built into it.
Dagger+Dagger #3 (Death Blossom) has a dodge built into it.

Yes, you have to invest points and/or use skills to gain vigor … so does everyone else.

Only dodges give vigor. Not skills with an evade component in them. You forgot Flanking Strike and Pistol Whip btw.

stof.9341:

Only dodges give vigor. Not skills with an evade component in them. You forgot Flanking Strike and Pistol Whip btw.

Swiftness is on dodge (2 seconds, too, lol), not vigor.

I’m aware of the other abilities and that it doesn’t work except on actual dodge rolls. Take a look at that dodge thief video on the thef forum. It shows the thief with prett much 100% evasion while also dropping caltrops on dodge rolls

uhm lets not deviate the discussion about “what if’s”

i have another idea to top of my what if we dont have stealth,

what if all our dual skills ignore block, like what they did to the first hit of flanking strike

Unload would be a bit OP as some classes rely on block (some warriors for example) to counter it.

Interesting idea though … Perhaps something else though.

Laika.8795:

stof.9341:

Only dodges give vigor. Not skills with an evade component in them. You forgot Flanking Strike and Pistol Whip btw.

Swiftness is on dodge (2 seconds, too, lol), not vigor.

Well, true XD Dunno why I got confused by the earlier post.

On the topic. Giving the Trickery flanking strike type trait the ability to make all our attacks unblockable could be interesting instead of some unconditional block ignoring property. Besides, how often do you see a warrior with a tiny shield straight in front of his face blocking attacks on his back with it?

But I’d rather see that boon hating thing ANet talks about first.

Sebrent.3625:

15 trait points in the tree that will give you +15% boon duration … vigor on heal and use less endurance per dodge. That 8 seconds of vigor is already 9.2 with that +15% boon duration.

15 sec cooldown on two heals (12 if signet traited).

Bountiful theft gives Vigor.

One heal has a dodge built into it.
One utility has a dodge built into it.
Dagger+Dagger #3 (Death Blossom) has a dodge built into it.

Yes, you have to invest points and/or use skills to gain vigor … so does everyone else.

…like mesmer and guardian gaining vigor on crit as 5 point minor traits? And one gaining clones when they dodge while the other heals on dodge. But yes, we thieves are the kings of dodging.

Oldgrimm.8521:

since everyone hates our class because they dont want to battle hidden enemies…

XII: thieves paradise : when two or more thieves are running together (radius 360)they gain regeneration

I would embrace the QQ towards the Thief class. So instead of regeneration, I would ultimately troll the system, and do just the opposite of what everyone wants:
“when two or more thieves are running togther (radius of 360, or slightly larger), they gain stealth for 15 seconds. Cannot trigger more than once every minute”

Haha that’ll QQ the kitten off everyone else

All jokes aside, I’m really not too sure what to expect in the upcoming (nerfing) patch—and what it’ll mean for the Thief class. I do like your idea about the backstab. Maybe a slight tweak like 75% reduction from the front and 50% from the sides. Idk..

With that standing trait I could go AFK for hours inside towers then just alt tab into GW2 and ninja a free tier 3 tower for my team

Anet barely has workers to fix simple tooltip errors. 7 months now and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quality_Maintenance_Oil is still listing power as stat it increases due to tooltip error.

If they an not take 30secs to change a DB entry for a item how do people who make posts like this expect them to hire programmers to radically change a class core code. If it does not involve changing a number somewhere don’t expect major balance changes.

Just quit your thief and make an elementalist already.

I agree with reducing stealth to only coming from utility and stealing skills. I feel that stealth is too easy to gain, simply by choosing Cloak and Dagger, and Hide in Shadows. These two skills will give you all the stealth you’ll ever need as a Thief, so players are never required to play fully into a stealth build.

Kasama.8941:

I agree with reducing stealth to only coming from utility and stealing skills. I feel that stealth is too easy to gain, simply by choosing Cloak and Dagger, and Hide in Shadows. These two skills will give you all the stealth you’ll ever need as a Thief, so players are never required to play fully into a stealth build.

Because players like you don’t care to dodge/block. Please take personal responsibility to heart before you make silly posts like this.

Ktx.

Kasama.8941:

I agree with reducing stealth to only coming from utility and stealing skills. I feel that stealth is too easy to gain, simply by choosing Cloak and Dagger, and Hide in Shadows. These two skills will give you all the stealth you’ll ever need as a Thief, so players are never required to play fully into a stealth build.

Kasama, you can’t measure a stealth set’s effectiveness without stealth based on how well stealthless sets perform without stealth.
What does S/D have over S/P if it doesn’t have stealth. Flanking Strike can’t account for the loss of frequent dazes and blinds.
P/D without Stealth is P/P without unload, headshot or black powder. P/D users would be better off buying a consumeable Charzooka if they didn’t have CnD.