Guild Wars 2

zone.1073:

This is how adrenaline should have worked since the beginning. I should not be able to effortlessly open up a fight with full adrenaline bars that give me increased damage, increased healing, and a max damage burst attack, without lifting a finger.

But going by that logic means that necro’s shouldn’t be able to start any fight with death shroud charged, rangers should need to enter combat, wait 5-10sec before being able to their pet out, thieves would need to wait 5-10sec upon combat to be able to use steal etc etc.

We already suffer from having to build up adrenaline before being to use ANY of our burst, and even then, our burst ain’t guaranteed to hit due to lag, telegraphed moves, bugs and the like. At least what should be done was lower the decay start to like 10sec after leaving combat would be acceptable instead of the 3-prong adrenaline nerf. And not to mention, by going BP trait means you forgo other traits, an opportunity cost, or tradeoff against other useful traitlines and traits.

And yes, the LB is even more required now than ever before. I don’t know why and how they can, and are still defending their stance on this, but honestly, brain power is severely lacking in the balancing department.

kayo.3817:

But going by that logic means that necro’s shouldn’t be able to start any fight with death shroud charged, rangers should need to enter combat, wait 5-10sec before being able to their pet out, thieves would need to wait 5-10sec upon combat to be able to use steal etc etc.

The key words in my post were:

zone.1073:

without lifting a finger.

Warriors can still begin fights with full adrenaline with certain builds; it’s just not effortless anymore.

• Necros get locked out of 10 weapon skills while in shroud, cannot heal or receive heal support. Shroud sucks compared to adrenaline.
• Ranger pets are simply weak and are susceptible to being kited or outright killed, meaning their pets’ damage output can potentially be zero. Sucks compared to adrenaline.
• Thieves are weak. Steal moves them closer to me so I can more easily stun them, eviscerate, whatever. So many ways to counter steal.

What is the weakness of adrenaline, from the perspective of an opponent? There is no weakness. The only remote weakness is that the warrior may not have max adrenaline at the moment. That’s the only window of opportunity from the opponent’s perspective.

Essentially, burst skills are not meant to be spammed with maximum adrenaline effectiveness. Simple as that. I should never be able to mindlessly throw down max adren combustive shots every, single, time, as the skill goes off cooldown. What? There are 3 different stages of combustive shots? I almost didn’t even know they existed, because I’m so used to tossing out ginormous, max adrenaline fire fields 100% all the time. Now I actually have to time my burst attacks and think and use my brain? Blasphemy.

Warr was strictly op before this patch. Every nerf was needed and they all improved the quality of the game.
Cry more please, the other seven classes enjoy seeing your tears.

I haven’t read this and I’m not going to. You are a bad warrior.

I’m absolutely unaffected by the change. Get on my level. There are a handful of wars that predicted the gap between great and terrible warriors would widen. No one listened to us she we told you to stop relying on our broken mechanic.

Adrenaline works perfectly fine now. It was OP before. It is 100% balanced. Get used to the adjustment or change classes.

Assassin X.8573:

I haven’t read this and I’m not going to. You are a bad warrior.

I’m absolutely unaffected by the change. Get on my level. There are a handful of wars that predicted the gap between great and terrible warriors would widen. No one listened to us she we told you to stop relying on our broken mechanic.

Adrenaline works perfectly fine now. It was open before. It is 100% balanced. Get used to the adjustment or change classes.

Here here. It’s a massive relief to see that not all warriors on the forums have Downs. What a great change of pace.

Assassin X.8573:

I haven’t read this and I’m not going to. You are a bad warrior.

I’m absolutely unaffected by the change. Get on my level. There are a handful of wars that predicted the gap between great and terrible warriors would widen. No one listened to us she we told you to stop relying on our broken mechanic.

Adrenaline works perfectly fine now. It was OP before. It is 100% balanced. Get used to the adjustment or change classes.

Yeah. How dare warriors rely on their class mechanic that’s been in the game for more than 2 years. How dare they use skills and traits that have been built around it like it was going against the design the class. The nerve!

Use the same logic and apply it to a thief. See how that works out.

“hey guys stop relying on stealth to use your skills that require stealth because you’re bad for using stealth. The good thieves don’t rely on a broken mechanic”.

What a load of nonsense.

Bombul.2506:

Zappix.7928:

I’m not against changes at all, but disproportionate changes to things that weren’t that big a deal? Hmmmm.. Not for PvE when most of the QQ was coming from WvWvW and sPvPers.

Berserker’s Power Increased damage based [sic] how much adrenaline you have built.
Adrenal Health Regenerate health based on adrenaline level.

These things are a big deal when you have nearly unlimited maximum adrenaline. When these two aspects are applied to a high armor high health high dps class it makes that class far outshine the competition.

you forgot to mention that both of these things reset to 0 when adrenaline is spent, which will happen during a miss, whether that miss is due to an attempt to remove conditions or not.

Rarely at full adrenaline for longer than a couple of seconds if you need to condi clear. Adrenal health only ticks for 380ish hp every three seconds.

Warriors dont have unlimited maximum adrenaline. they need to spend it to clear condis, which is now much more difficult due to condi clears not proccing on miss.

Looks good on paper, but in practice, not as much as you might think.

Meh, I pretty much hung my hat up on my Warrior, till they fix their screw ups or stop hating warriors in general. Only reason is the instant decay, 5-10sec till it starts to decay would be great! Heck, I don’t even mind the speed at which it drains, but that instant decay on combat leave just takes the fun out of playing a warrior to me. It’s playable, yes, but just not fun anymore.

Effective testing/design change of the Adrenaline mechanic would not have attacked the issue from multiple angles at once (i.e., adrenaline loss on miss, new rapid adrenaline decay mechanics). One such change to test to evaluate would yield measurable results not confounded by multiple other variables thrown in at once (including reduced efficacy of signet of rage and reduced damage to skills of greatsword, etc.). The result of such a shotgun approach to balance of the warrior is a clearly broken core class mechanic (despite claims of “100% balance” made elsewhere, which clearly is never to be achieved though the goal to do so be worthy).

The change to adrenaline loss on miss would have been worthy of evaluation in isolation without additional “nerfs.” What seems odd to me, statements were made months ago that in terms of balance warriors were about where they were supposed to be (a paraphrase rather than quote), but since that time at least three balance patches in a row have clearly intentioally weakened the class relative to others.

Having taken a break from warrior for awhile after initial testing of the changes and returned to the class for fresh testing, I stand with other players finding warrior unsatisfying to play with broken adrenaline mechanics. Although certain builds (ironically including the hambow build singled out as target for the changes, but also heal shout/warhorn warriors) remain more effective than others, the fun factor is just missing with the broken core mechanic. At present I still return to my warrior now and again for the r/p value and history of the character (going back to betas), but I cannot say the class is as fun as others at present.

Adrenaline is not “100% balanced” but is instead broken.

What are you guys talking about?! Anet is well known for not taking the whack-a-mole approach to balancing GW2.

Ohwait, 3 nerfs to one mechanic in a single balance pass? Nevermind I said anything…

I started a warrior yesterday, since it seems like it’s not that popular anymore, and at least in PvE it seems that Adrenaline works just fine.

In smaller fights, well, they’re over before adrenaline is full, so that works very well.

when fighting veterans or champions i use some skills to apply vuln at first anyways and I find that I can every so often include an eviscerate in the “rotation”.

Even when fighting groups of trashmobs eviscerate can be used as gap closer. Works like a charm.

Just wanted to add, since someone compared Adrenaline to DS or Steal: It doesn’t work that way. DS is a defensive mechanic, one of the only ones a necro has access to, Necros without at least some LF are effectively entering combat without defensive mechanics.
Steal on the other hand I always saw more as an “opener” as opposed to adrenaline being more of a “finisher”, so it makes sense to build it up during combat and finish the opponent off with a well timed burst.

But, as always, I’m rather new to the game and haven’t done small scale PvP, maybe it’s more of an issue there.

Aries Of Ragnarok.1365:

It’s playable, yes, but just not fun anymore.

Tl;DR version (best summary)

To be a bit hyperbolic:

Why doesn’t Necro’s Death Shroud gauge empty as soon as they get ooc?
Why doesn’t the Thief start with 0 initiative every fight (or x2-x4 the reveal buff whenever they come out of stealth)?
Why not have the ele attunement recharge only happen while in combat/force them to stay an attunement for 5-10 seconds before they can switch?
Why not nerf all Mesmer clone generation moves?

I’m sure all of those sound pretty outrageous, so why does nerfing the War core mechanic seem fair? The fact that I can tell that I’m ooc by my adrenaline bar dropping faster than noticing my skills are switchable is pretty kitten annoying. If I’m going to lose my adrenaline at least make sure I’m fully healed before I lose all of it.

I’m fine with losing it on a miss, some wars have been asking for that for months. But they nerfed Adrenaline hard, without making it any easier to generate. I was sure they were finally going to un-stealth nerf Furious – nope. And you can keep your extra passive adrenaline gain, I want my lost 5sec of swiftness.

“I’m sure all of those sound pretty outrageous, so why does nerfing the War core mechanic seem fair?”

Because they work in a completely different way, it’s just not comparable to Deathshroud or Initiative.

you could as well say that mesmers should start with 3 clones every combat if you think warriors should start a fight with full adrenaline.

ok, then imagine you are fighting a thief, drop 3 phantasm on him, he stealths for a few seconds and all your illusions go poof because the thief was hidden for 5 seconds.

that’s more like it.

Only that you don’t loose all your adrenaline and can attack while building it up, I don’t think it very comparable and just stated it above to show that.

it’s hardly comparable sure, but yes, you do lose all your adrenaline EXTREMELY fast the very moment you leave combat, even in situations that are clearly still “in fight”.

Say there’s a large fight and you’re fighting just outside the center of it, kill your target and get you attention on your next enemy? Chanches are unless you can “tag” them with some ranged attack you’ll have no adrenaline before you even get to them even if you have clearly were in a “combat” situation all along.

Losing adrenaline on a miss is all fine and well deserved, nerfing the capacity to carry adrenaline around for a long period of time is also a good thing (you could keep it pretty much indefinitely), nerfing adrenaline generation on a few core skills is.. unnecessary, but can live with that.

But they way they made my war lose all adrenaline after a few seconds is not ok, that’s the only part that really needs backpedaling, right now i feel like i have serious memory damage and my warrior forgets about what was going on a few seconds after he stops taking arrows to the knee.

To make you a non-pvp related example, i had to take damage ON PURPOSE on the svanir fractal during the shaman fight from the spikes he drops just so my adrenaline wouldn’t be completely gone by the time it came back into the fight, it’s just stupid.

I even tried making use of my last bars before they run out by dropping the LB fire field for a few blasts, but my adrenaline runs out before the animation is complete and the skill fails. >_>

I agree on that, it seems to me that they now need to adjust the time when adrenaline depletion starts, so that you don’t loose adrenaline in infight situations where you tried to get to the next mob and run out of adrenaline before you even reach them.

It’s the problem with balancing: Making sure to find the right time to avoid people running from fight to fight with 100 % adrenaline up all the time and losing your adrenaline too fast when fighting groups and changing target.