Guild Wars 2

After ANet say “we will nerf Adrenaline!” everyone just start crying.
But there’s some news that you’ve not see:
1) Signet of Rage: increased Adrenaline gain by 50%!!!
2) Axe skill 5 increased damage by 17% and decreased cooldown to 15 sec.
3) Brawler’s Recovery (trait) now clean a condition on weapon swap.
4) Berserker Stance still give you Adrenaline, just lesser than before.

What can you see in this 3 changes?
1) All spvp build use Signet of Rage and if you don’t use it like a mindless warrior or if you are a condi build (there’s a lot of condi war in spvp) you can obtain a large amount of Adrenaline from it. And if you use it you lose something to obtain something better, not a problem. But if you really need adrenaline you can chose to don’t active it and continue to obtain a good amount of adrenaline during the fight. That can also help to obtain a difference between dps class and condition class, because the dps class will active the signet to obtain might,swift and fury, but the condition class will not activ eit to obtain Adrenaline to active LB F1 skill (the 80% of they’re condition damage source).
2) Axe skill kitten 15 times. Every hit give you Adrenaline. Whit the trait Sharpened Axe (Discipline, number IX) you obtain a very good dps skill whit whirl effect that hit 15 times and whit every crit give you a lot of adrenaline. Whit a dps build you can deal 10+ critical hit! You refull your adrenaline bar whit a single skill in 3 sec every 12 sec!.
3) Brawler’s Recovery clean a condition every time you swap. That’s a good thing to add to your build (expeccily in dps axe based -Eviscerate- build) because whit 6 in Discipline you can swap every 5 sec, gaining Adrenaline, Might and cleaning a condition.
4) Berserker Stance give Adrenaline. Yes, it’s true!! You can use it to full your Adrenaline bar one time! And ignore enemy conditions apply for 8 sec (10 if traited)

New Fix combo: Axe as second weapon to fury+good dps skill whit whirl combo (15 hit combo is very good, you can inflict 10-15 of burning-weakness-cleanse-heal—— to your enemy/ally in 3 sec dealing damage), gaining adrenaline and you can obtain adrenaline and clean a condition every 5 sec. And Signet of Rage that give you a very good amount of Adrenaline. Isn’t that good???

Whit that new fix they give you a reason to spent 6 point into Disciple, use Axe as secondary weapon and try to use Signet of Rage not only for the 5 might stack but also to obtain more chances to active your finishers in fight.

In pve you don’t need something like berserker stance because 90% of builds use GS and Berserker’s Power (trait) and whit tha trait lesser you use your adrenaline more damage you deal.

Actually they don’t nerfed Adrenaline so much. What did they do?
1) Adrenaline fall out if you’re not in fight? OMG!!! Wait.. isn’t already like this? It’s only a little quickly. But more in line whit the description of the warrior class and it’s mechanics.
2) Nerfed Berserker’s Stance. Ok that is a nerf of 40% and it’s heavy, but it don’t really turn the warrior into a useless class. Come on guys! You can also start the fight whit a good finisher and 10 sec of conditio immunity!!! It’s not the end of the world.

But they give us a signet that refull your bar quickly, an axe skill that hit 15 times, dealing high damage and refulling your adrenaline bar, if traited, and a trait that incentive to swap between your weapons, action that grant you adrenaline, might and condition clean.

I like that new fixes. I don’t see all that big nerf that you see.
I see only new possibility about builds.

1) Signet of Rage: increased Adrenaline gain by 50%!!!
Do you even know how much it gives now? if you do you would also see 50% is a joke.

2) Axe skill 5 increased damage by 17% and decreased cooldown to 15 sec.
Axe offhand? where?? pve?? i hope your not using it in pvp/wvw

3) Brawler’s Recovery (trait) now clean a condition on weapon swap.
Cool so we all now have to spend 6 into dicipline also?
And it will cost you burst mastery for those builds that CAN go 6 into discipline.. not all weapons prefer 6 into discipline because you need traits also to make the weapon vaible..

4) Berserker Stance still give you Adrenaline, just lesser than before.
True, not a big deal indeed.

But why make ANOTHER topic about this, there are already LOTS of it.

And yet OP you fail to see how this affects the other aspects. The “buffs” do not make up for the heavy nerf being received in many regards. The new change for instance, cripples rifle even more than before.

Talonblaze.3175:

And yet OP you fail to see how this affects the other aspects. The “buffs” do not make up for the heavy nerf being received in many regards. The new change for instance, cripples rifle even more than before.

you mean rifle was partially useful before?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Talonblaze.3175:

And yet OP you fail to see how this affects the other aspects. The “buffs” do not make up for the heavy nerf being received in many regards. The new change for instance, cripples rifle even more than before.

you mean rifle was partially useful before?

No but:

With the bleeding i could do more damage on POWER builds compared to the new rifle AA where they remove bleeding.

And:

If rifle issnt viable, why reply on that part??
Now reply on the rest of his post.. the part about nerfs hit harder compared to the useless buffs..

nicknamenick.2437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Talonblaze.3175:

And yet OP you fail to see how this affects the other aspects. The “buffs” do not make up for the heavy nerf being received in many regards. The new change for instance, cripples rifle even more than before.

you mean rifle was partially useful before?

No but:

With the bleeding i could do more damage on POWER builds compared to the new rifle AA where they remove bleeding.

And:

If rifle issnt viable, why reply on that part??
Now reply on the rest of his post.. the part about nerfs hit harder compared to the useless buffs..

Brutal shot -> Autoattack = you will now do increased damage for 12 seconds. and max out your adren bar with auto attack.

Brutal shot has a 15 second cooldown and applies 8 stacks of vuln. Fierce shot has a flat 20% damage increase. For auto attack.

The damage has just moved into raw power instead of bleeding ticks. That buff is far from useless, provided you can land brutal shot.

kill shot ready quicker than ever, if your opponent is paying attention spend adren bars on something easier to land.

My response about rifle being viable was a snarky comment. It is incredibly difficult to use in PVP settings since it only focuses one target. the moment two people focus you, you cannot use rifle and kite. unless you are in a zerg. In which case your auto attack now provides you with ‘instant’ killshot.

If they would’ve just made the adrenal change it would be good aswell, doesn’t need anything in trade-off for it to be the right thing to do. Anet’s first good thing since…. Ever?

nicknamenick.2437:

1) Signet of Rage: increased Adrenaline gain by 50%!!!
Do you even know how much it gives now? if you do you would also see 50% is a joke.

2) Axe skill 5 increased damage by 17% and decreased cooldown to 15 sec.
Axe offhand? where?? pve?? i hope your not using it in pvp/wvw

3) Brawler’s Recovery (trait) now clean a condition on weapon swap.
Cool so we all now have to spend 6 into dicipline also?
And it will cost you burst mastery for those builds that CAN go 6 into discipline.. not all weapons prefer 6 into discipline because you need traits also to make the weapon vaible..

4) Berserker Stance still give you Adrenaline, just lesser than before.
True, not a big deal indeed.

But why make ANOTHER topic about this, there are already LOTS of it.

1) It give low adrenaline, but whit that nerf it can give good adrenaline. 50% boost is better than a kick in the kitten , right? And it give adrenaline, while all the other fix “steal” adrenaline. It can be good. But I’ve say: only if you need adrenaline. If you don’t need it active it and fight like you want. I play condition war and I need it, then sometime I don’t active it to recharge my adrenaline faster. I live longer than the classic build and that make Signet of Rage be useful also whitout active it.

2) I use it in pve, but also in spvp and wvsw (not always in wvsw). That because when you spin around your target whit that skill the enemy flee to evade your attack and don’t attack you, while you hit he easy. And whit firefield (F1 LB) you fire 15 fireshot, increasing your damage. With a boost of 17% you can deal high damage with a simple skill. If with 100Blades you deal 5k, with that you can deal 4k, but you can move, make some combos and if you use a sword or a axe in your main hand you can also active Final Thrust/Eviscerate to deal more damage than only 100Blades. Very high damage with no movement penality. In wvsw when your team use water fields you can fire 15 healing bolts. it’s very good. A casual heal, but 15 hit of casual heal can help your team. Or 15 fire bolts, leeching bolts, cleansing bolts, poisoning bolts, or in dungeon you can combo-fire brutal bolts, that inflict weakness. 15 stack of weakness with a skill that don’t inflict weakness and deal high damage? It looks good to me.
After the patch try it, it’s very good (if you know how to play it).

3) I’ve write: NEW BUILDS. What in “New Builds” isn’t clear for you?
If you want to use your build play it, I’ve only say that you can also try new builds.
There’s already some builds that use 4 or 6 points in Discipline. Whit that fix you’re incentivated to use it, not forced to use it.

• The Signet of Rage change is an overall nerf. A 50% buff to a small amount is still a small amount. If it was something like 150% then maybe yes, it would be a good idea to save it until a burst. However with just 50% the adrenaline gain will still be pitiful so really it just got a needless nerf in boon duration.

• I won’t touch offhand axe because a shield or sword offers way more utility. The 4 skill is also fairly lackluster as well.

• The Brawler’s Recovery change is good and I’ll probably use it on a Axe/GS or Mace/GS build so I can take more DPS focused traits while not being totally destroyed by condis.

It’s still an overall nerf and they are making it harder to not use a Longbow, which is a very bad decision. I’m OK with the Adrenaline changes, but I feel like some burst skills like Kill Shot and Skull Crack will need changes to make them more reliable.

I would also like to see Stance changes to make them more like GW1, but one thing at a time I suppose (hopefully not in 6 months).

>>3) Brawler’s Recovery clean a condition every time you swap. That’s a good thing to add to your build (expeccily in dps axe based -Eviscerate- build) because whit 6 in Discipline you can swap every 5 sec, gaining Adrenaline, Might and cleaning a condition.

Put on Rune of the Warrior . Vitality/power and that condi cleanse comes every 4 seconds.

With traited Axe you will have full adrenalin bar any way ,problem is that if you go for axe of hand you will need to go full zerker ,air /fir /rage sigils , no use having axe.

Even before this change i could down player in 5 sec with gs/mace-axe or if i dont kill them im down in 5sec its just good enough to have fun in hot join bursting noobs in any serious play ,ppl will recognize wht you do, and focus you next respwn and your role is to die hard….

So axe with out that reflect that stolen version has is crap (i really dont get it why is stolen version so much better that real thing?)

Another thing after the patch any miss with main hand be it axe,mace,sword will diminish your whirling cause lets admit it not all ppl are stupid to stand and watch you whirl them 2 death(i did once kill 3 player trying to revive one with 100b/axe-whirl so yeah noobs exist)
Oh yeah with my build 6.4.0.0.4 i used healing surge for full adrenalin at start of the fight now even this is out of the question, so yeah im back to cheese signet for passive heals,so even for fun purposes healing surge is out of question:(

So in a conclusion every1 will run H/B now:(
Anet is making this a card build(premade hero- LOL tipe of play)

If you watch TOL you will see that 90% of warriors did carry banner as elite, not signet …

So with 90% of player already running HB this is not a big problem i agree on that

“…but the condition class will not activ eit to obtain Adrenaline to active LB F1 skill (the 80% of they’re condition damage source).”

i was not aware that impale, flurry and pin down (plus varius other stuff like fan of fire and sword auto but whatever) only made up 20% of my damage. man have i played a condition warrior wrong.

People keep trying to convince others the nerfs are a good thing but I’m just not seeing it.

The only way they’re good is if you don’t play a warrior.

Man it sure sucks if you miss a skill it would have a downside to you..like every other class
;c

It’s not about having a downside, it’s about suddendly having too many.

Now missing a burst is going to screw you over -real bad-, meaning you’ll have to rely on longbow even more or employ builds that don’t use up their adrenaline much.

It’s fair for warriors to use up adrenaline when missing, i’ve always thought it should be that way (as a main warrior) BUT it needs some sort of compensation else we’re pidgeonholed even more into longbow while making barely viable weapons like mace and rifle even worse.

it’s a badly implemented nerf because it hits some weapons MUCH harder than other and guess what? it’s not the already good ones that get hit the hardest.

it’s a wrong nerf as much as it’s (imho) a wrong buff giving PU condi mesmer a torment on auto attack, that is not the one build that needed help the most.

Man, now you get to be in the boat rangers have been in the last 2 years when our pet goes and misses his fear for no reason. Poor you bros.

that’s about as childish as answers can get.

“bohoo my class sucks so everyone should”

also it’s nothing like pets at all, it’s not about anet not fixing broken mechanichs (broken: not working as expected/intended), it’s about poor designing/balancing choiches that nerf the hardest weapons that were already weak reducing build diversity a lot.

The adrenaline nerf heavily affects weapons that are already bad, while barely affecting the weapons that don’t even need their burst skills.

Axe and Greatswords are really good without burst, while Sword, Hammer, and Rifle rely on the burst skills almost entirely.

I main a warrior and I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s easy to rack up full adrenaline within the CD period of your burst skill (especially if you trait burst mastery). The only thing this does is stop you from swapping to your other weapon and bursting again if the first one missed.

I agree with the direction Anet is taking with this change, I just hope they don’t take it too far. I’m all for raising the skill floor and making the clkitten forgiving.

Adrenaline changes are a massive change to Warrior class mechanic and to state anything otherwise is lying to oneself. ANet nudging some traits/utilities to provide more (and even less in the case of Berserker’s Stance) Adrenaline gain at the same time as this sweeping change to compensate shows that you have a class mechanic that is seriously broken. Seriously seriously broken.

For example, when Thief initiative mechanic was nerfed (“balanced”) into the ground and back, what did ANet do? Because the Thief initiative class mechanic basically relied on taking specific traits and utilities to maximize performance, ANet increased the base initiative regen and nerfed the utilities to diversify builds.

In Warrior’s case, they nerfed (penalized) Warriors Adrenaline gains (even the best Warriors can’t avoid blind spam/Aegis so losing all your Adrenaline for no impact will be very common) and now Warriors will “need to” take specific traits and specific utilities as well. Guess what the next step is going to be when 90% of Warriors will have the same 3-4 traits/utilities to compensate? ANet probably already has it on the “balance” roadmap.

In the meantime, do what the Thief players did (besides whine about it) and reroll to the new FotM – at that time, it was Mesmer/Elementalist — you all should be rerolling to Ranger/Engineer

Artaz.3819:

Adrenaline changes are a massive change to Warrior class mechanic and to state anything otherwise is lying to oneself. ANet nudging some traits/utilities to provide more (and even less in the case of Berserker’s Stance) Adrenaline gain at the same time as this sweeping change to compensate shows that you have a class mechanic that is seriously broken. Seriously seriously broken.

For example, when Thief initiative mechanic was nerfed (“balanced”) into the ground and back, what did ANet do? Because the Thief initiative class mechanic basically relied on taking specific traits and utilities to maximize performance, ANet increased the base initiative regen and nerfed the utilities to diversify builds.

In Warrior’s case, they nerfed (penalized) Warriors Adrenaline gains (even the best Warriors can’t avoid blind spam/Aegis so losing all your Adrenaline for no impact will be very common) and now Warriors will “need to” take specific traits and specific utilities as well. Guess what the next step is going to be when 90% of Warriors will have the same 3-4 traits/utilities to compensate? ANet probably already has it on the “balance” roadmap.

In the meantime, do what the Thief players did (besides whine about it) and reroll to the new FotM – at that time, it was Mesmer/Elementalist — you all should be rerolling to Ranger/Engineer

Instead, I’ll just start using GS in pvp.

Snipped slightly

when Thief initiative mechanic was nerfed (“balanced”) into the ground and back, what did ANet do? Because the Thief initiative class mechanic basically relied on taking specific traits and utilities to maximize performance, ANet increased the base initiative regen and nerfed the utilities to diversify builds.

In Warrior’s case, they nerfed (penalized) Warriors Adrenaline gains (even the best Warriors can’t avoid blind spam/Aegis so losing all your Adrenaline for no impact will be very common) and now Warriors will “need to” take specific traits and specific utilities as well.

^^^^^^
This.
Probably the most accurate post I’ve read all week.

Adrenaline is 1 strike per hit, 10 strikes to fill a bar, so 30 strikes total.
Swap trait is 5 free strikes
Crit trait is +1 strike per crit
New Zerker stance is +30 free strikes over time
Longbow double hits so thats 2 strikes per attack
Axe cycles hits very fast, while Mace is slow as anything
Cleansing ire is +1 strike when hit by an attack

This creates a HUGE disparity, between traited and untraited warriors in regards to adrenal gain.

Here is how I propose ANet address the issue:

Adrenaline Bar – All hits grant 2 strikes of adrenaline, regardless of double hits (longbow/axe autoattack) and multi hits (melee-cleave/aoe/pierce). Baseline, removes 1 condition per bar of adrenaline gained.
Overall this should not increase or decrease gain, but simply stabilize it and make it more consistent. (Sometimes you can plink away for 1 per hit, and other times you’ll hit 3 targets and crit, for 6 strikes per swing).

Cleansing Ire – Grants 1 strike of adrenaline per hit taken, and 1 strike per second if you have one or more conditions.

Signet of Rage – Passive: grants 1 adrenaline strike every 1 second

Versatile Rage – Still gives 5 strikes, which is weaker relatively, since weapons will generate faster overall, vs single target.

Berserkers Power – When you fill a bar of adrenaline, you gain a Warrior specific buff that increases damage by 3% for 10 seconds. Stackable to 5, each duration is tracked individually.

Now missing with a burst skill carries no excessive penalty beyond the skill itself not landing. The reward and punishment now matches the risk taken.