Guild Wars 2

“Warrior:
The overall goal here is to reduce the damage for the very high control warriors. This means reducing some dependency on going 30 points into discipline for Burst Mastery, making warriors spend 20 points in Arms to get the benefit of Unsuspecting Foe. We also reduced the damage on the hammer’s burst skill to separate the control from the damage. We don’t mind warriors doing massive damage, or doing great area of effect control, but we’re trying to prevent them from easily doing both. We also increased the readability of Skull Crack, which will allow opposing players to more easily react to it. Combustive Shot on longbow also saw some rework. It will scale better with adrenaline levels, and still provide strong burning per adrenaline level, but the raw damage was toned down slightly.
Strength 5 – Reckless Dodge. Increased Damage by 25%
Strength III – Great Fortitude. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 7%.
Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier.
Arms VII – Crack Shot. Moved to Adept Tier.
Arms XII – Last Chance. Increased the threshold form 25% to 50%. Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 40seconds.
Defense 25 – Armored Attack. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 10%.
Defense XII – Spiked Armor. Reduced the recharge from 15s to 10s.
Tactics 5 – Determined Revival. Now correctly displays the amount of toughness.
Tactics 25 – Reviver’s Might. Now applies 3 stacks of Might instead of 1.
Discipline II – Thrill of the Kill. Increased Adrenaline gain from 1 to 10.
Discipline XI – Burst Mastery. Reduced damage increase from 10% to 7%. Removed erroneous adrenaline gain fact.
Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%.
Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%.
Skull Crack. Increased the cast time from 1/4s to 1/2s. Updated the animation and effects of this skill to be more clear.
Combustive Shot – Increased pulse duration to 3s. Increased burn duration per pulse to 3s. Normalized damage per pulse. Updated pulses per tier to 2, 3,and 4 respectively for tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview

I truely don’t understand the path you guys are choosing FOR us. You specifically target hammer damage when the most significant weakness to hammer is stability. I have over 1 thousand hours on warrior, the majority of that play time was in WvW. Anyone who has played with a hammer build knows that someone who cannot be CC’d can usually shrug at the damage output of a hammer. This means that our 2 strongest weapon abilities(4 and 5), plus the f1 are there only for damage capabilities. This ties into one of the most fundamental traits for a hammer build: Merciless Hammer. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the trait, this is from the wiki:

“Hammer damage is increased when a foe is disabled. Reduces recharge on hammer skills.
Damage Damage increase: 25%
Miscellaneous Recharge reduced: 20%
— In-game description
Notes
“Disabled” refers to any effect that prevents character action. (Daze, Stun, Knockdown)"

Now take a look at this piece:

“Discipline XI – Burst Mastery. Reduced damage increase from 10% to 7%. Removed erroneous adrenaline gain fact.
Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%.
Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%.”

So Earth shaker will now be reduced in damage by a total of 27% (if we take those traits), and Staggering Blow is reduced by 23%.This almost forces us to adopt Hammer Mastery in order to do some kind of viable damage with hammer. I thought the point of this update was to encourage build diversity. It seems like you’re doing the opposite of that.

With around 100% critical damage from gear, a full combo of Backbreaker, Staggering blow, and Earth shaker will amount to around 7-12k damage in 3 attacks depending on the armor of the target and whether protection is on them or not. This combo is hardly enough to take on a skilled mesmer, or good elementalist, and will barley harm a good guard. Now take into consideration how obvious those 3 attacks are when used in a chain. Earth shaker can only be landed now if someone is imobilized, inexperienced, or lagging due to the vast numbers in a zerg. Almost everyone knows the animation of it by now. Not to mention that Earth Shaker is completely useless on a slope because you guys can’t figure out how to fix this 1 year after launch. Backbreaker’s windup takes literally forever and is also a very obvious animation. Staggering Blow is a useful setup skill that helps you chain Earth shaker or Backbreaker. Ideally, a good combo is considered 4,5, f1. Landing 3 abilities at fight start proves very difficult without the use of imobilize, or Line of sight mechanics (By this I mean stunning people through walls, where they can’t see your player model). A good player will often carry atleast 1 stunbreaker or CC immunity. Some classes such as Guard even have this built into their weapon skills and don’t have to waste a utility slot on it. These changes would then increase longevity of an opponent and therefore increase the fight duration. Shout heal builds aside, a good warrior will likely agree that unless facing another warrior, for sake of class knowledge and equally readable skills, a prolonged fight against almost any other class will equal a warrior’s loss. This is speaking in terms of a 1v1 situation, and on flat terrain. I suppose I could tackle the element of zerg play, but I feel that going the direction of army vs army simply dumbs down skillful and interesting combat that can be seen otherwise if maps were created bigger, with greater terrain diversity, and less simplistic over all. I feel that you seem to balance in this perspective primarily when you should be looking at class balances in terms of class vs class, instead of army vs army.

Instead of damage nerfs towards warrior, I honestly think you still need to consider Guild Wars 1 for useful traits and class mechanics. There were many intersting ideas behind stances in GW1 that I find greatly lacking in GW2. Please consider the use of stances, class knowledge, and the stability boon in general for counters towards a hammer warrior. In truth, a hammer is just as obvious and easy to read from telegraphed animations as a Greatsword warrior. The last thing we need is another damage nerf because less skilled players do not bother to inform themselves of class mechanics and builds.

I just don’t like how hammer warriors can have the same output in damage as a full zerker warrior, when they don’t have to sacrifice defense, and don’t have to stack precision in jewels, etc. Just wish they would something for burst classes for once.

Alex.4150:

I just don’t like how hammer warriors can have the same output in damage as a full zerker warrior, when they don’t have to sacrifice defense, and don’t have to stack precision in jewels, etc. Just wish they would something for burst classes for once.

But they don’t have to berf the weapon damage to fix that. Just reorganizing our traits in order to make a choice between between UF or BM or MH should be enough to tone it down without completely breaking it.

Alex.4150:

I just don’t like how hammer warriors can have the same output in damage as a full zerker warrior, when they don’t have to sacrifice defense, and don’t have to stack precision in jewels, etc. Just wish they would something for burst classes for once.

This.

I already pointed out that hambow style will remain unchanged even with less dps but they answered my post with irony.Truth is the only ones that will really suffer are zerker hammer users since they needed all the dps to kill or be killed.Mace non fotm users will suffer too for no reason and mace/gs will probably benefit even more indirectly dps wise because the slight modifications are bound to make.The only reason I will not be 100% clear on this is i’m not a big fan of FOTM create and post for all baddies to copy and leech.

Hammer and UF were not considered OP until ANET started to buff hammer by making the 4 skill usable while moving, and reducing the aftercast time on the rest of the hammer skills to allow for easier chain stuns.

Their solution after buffing hammer to the point where it became OP? Nerf burst mastery, nerf UF, nerf sigil of paralyzation (effectively crippling MANY builds for warrior and different classes), and nerf hammer damage into oblivion.

A sane person would wonder why ANET would not simply revert some of the hammer changes so that hammer isn’t a mindless stun-lock spam weapon instead of nerfing non-hammer builds (e.g. axe + shield) with such blanket nerfs. It used to take some skill to get KDs due to the root + aftercast on the hammer skills. Unfortunately, ANET appears to work under the mentality of using buffs to make things “noob friendly” until something gets OP, and then over-nerfing the the entire class to “fix” it (just look at what happened to elementalists).

Callahan.3180:

So Earth shaker will now be reduced in damage by a total of 27% (if we take those traits), and Staggering Blow is reduced by 23%.This almost forces us to adopt Hammer Mastery in order to do some kind of viable damage with hammer. I thought the point of this update was to encourage build diversity. It seems like you’re doing the opposite of that.

With around 100% critical damage from gear, a full combo of Backbreaker, Staggering blow, and Earth shaker will amount to around 7-12k damage in 3 attacks depending on the armor of the target and whether protection is on them or not. This combo is hardly enough to take on a skilled mesmer, or good elementalist, and will barley harm a good guard. Now take into consideration how obvious those 3 attacks are when used in a chain. Earth shaker can only be landed now if someone is imobilized, inexperienced, or lagging due to the vast numbers in a zerg. Almost everyone knows the animation of it by now. Not to mention that Earth Shaker is completely useless on a slope because you guys can’t figure out how to fix this 1 year after launch. Backbreaker’s windup takes literally forever and is also a very obvious animation. Staggering Blow is a useful setup skill that helps you chain Earth shaker or Backbreaker. Ideally, a good combo is considered 4,5, f1. Landing 3 abilities at fight start proves very difficult without the use of imobilize, or Line of sight mechanics (By this I mean stunning people through walls, where they can’t see your player model). A good player will often carry atleast 1 stunbreaker or CC immunity. Some classes such as Guard even have this built into their weapon skills and don’t have to waste a utility slot on it. These changes would then increase longevity of an opponent and therefore increase the fight duration. Shout heal builds aside, a good warrior will likely agree that unless facing another warrior, for sake of class knowledge and equally readable skills, a prolonged fight against almost any other class will equal a warrior’s loss. This is speaking in terms of a 1v1 situation, and on flat terrain. I suppose I could tackle the element of zerg play, but I feel that going the direction of army vs army simply dumbs down skillful and interesting combat that can be seen otherwise if maps were created bigger, with greater terrain diversity, and less simplistic over all. I feel that you seem to balance in this perspective primarily when you should be looking at class balances in terms of class vs class, instead of army vs army.

Instead of damage nerfs towards warrior, I honestly think you still need to consider Guild Wars 1 for useful traits and class mechanics. There were many intersting ideas behind stances in GW1 that I find greatly lacking in GW2. Please consider the use of stances, class knowledge, and the stability boon in general for counters towards a hammer warrior. In truth, a hammer is just as obvious and easy to read from telegraphed animations as a Greatsword warrior. The last thing we need is another damage nerf because less skilled players do not bother to inform themselves of class mechanics and builds.

I think the problem is hammer brings good aoe burst damage whole also proving cc. It’s too much utility and damage together. 12k damage is a very large amount of damage for using 3 skills that are aoe and stun/knockdown. An ele or thief that used theist stunbreak already (say against a skullcrack from the warrior) can easily be killed without every getting to use a skill. If you use hammer #4 you can easily get off 5 and earthshaker and down the opponent without them being able to retaliate. You also have to remember that anytime the warrior is ccing an opponent they are also getting health from HS and adrenal healing (which most warriors use right now).

I think the hammer nerfs are a good idea. If you want more damage now you will have to trait for it, but if you don’t you still have a weapon that has great utility on every part of the weapon.

The hammers nerfs are not bad , because we got buffs on CC . At least it’s not a clunky crap like 100b on GS .

12k damage is nothing. I got backstabed by 10k while wearing 3,1k armor… (And its one skill, not 3 very telegrapehed)They want to seperate being tanky while dealing damage jet Warrior need to be somewhat tanky to deal damage. Other classes can get away easily with being glass and survive. Condition builds are tank and dps in one. They just couldnt let people run direct damage and be tanky for warrior because people started to cry. And not just about that hammerbow build. They cry about mobility (my free kill is gettin away!) cry about hammer alone (there was topic to delete hammer from game, that it is game breaking), cry about mace/gs, they cry about healing signet and regen. And they will continue to cry.

And it not like people did not trait for damage: 30 points in critical damage, 10 points in critical chance, and they did trait for defense 30 points. I was using hammer and longbow long before it become a thing to run dungons and fractals becasue with some banner could easy stack might and it have good aoe and cc. Now my Juggernaut will be nerfed and I was not using that hammerbow for long time(Only in dungeons, I dont bother with spvp), I was running 0/10/30/30/0 shout- frontliner- support and I needed that 50% critical chance with ES because being support wont help you for the long run its all comes down to damage, not healing, armor, vitality, its all about the dps in the end. Having UF for 10 points gave me that damage to survive. Now with nerf to ES, nerf to UF, “fix” to sigil of para my Warrior will become warrior from old mmos when you are a tank or a dps, or I will roll conid dmg and be both…

Nerf f1 and 4 bc they r aoe and cc..Fine, now buff 1, 2, 3 bc they aren’t a cc skills.
Honestly i dont see point using hammer right after patch, moving UF to highter tier is enough, dmg nerf is overkill.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Nerf f1 and 4 bc they r aoe and cc..Fine, now buff 1, 2, 3 bc they aren’t a cc skills.
Honestly i dont see point using hammer right after patch, moving UF to highter tier is enough, dmg nerf is overkill.

They want to completely kill the longbow/hammer power build since combustive shot i’ts getting a really hard nerf in power right after the nerf in radius last patch.Power builds are just lacking atm since

Greatsword f1 is useless * literally* and half the skills are badly designed or depend horribly on cc to land.
Axe is bad(no defence and dps is hard to apply against more than keyboard turners)
Mace gets nerfed and still the worst weapon in the game to apply dps.REaaaaaaly slow and dps is bad.No ways to apply it except using utility to land.
Riflle.Big LOL
Longbow and sword remain viable but they succeed 200% better in condition spec especially with the new combustive shot nerf in power

We can all see where this is going and i don’t even have good tracking skills lol.

Umm no, mini, cause there are a lot of WvW warrior builds that use hammer + something else. That said, it is a means of bringing the warrior hammer down to that of a guardian hammer….from a WvW perspective, imho.

Yes, they are looking for build diversity… They want folks to pick a hammer as damage (though this may be to limited now) or pick a hammer as CC but not both. That promotes diversity in their minds.

How many of you guys are actually planning on dropping hammer completely? I’m personally going to move some traits around and see how it works before I change armor/runes/trinkets. Its obviously too strong now, but if the changes just look worse than they actually are, I’m sure I’ll stick with hammer…I just enjoy it that much for my Warrior and Guardian.

Any of you have any builds pre-made yet? I wouldn’t mind taking a look and helping out.

NargofWoV.4267:

Yes, they are looking for build diversity… They want folks to pick a hammer as damage (though this may be to limited now) or pick a hammer as CC but not both. That promotes diversity in their minds.

Um… but the hammer traits link damage with CC.

Re-posting this:

From small-group/zerbusting WvW warrior perspective:

Hammer builds will become less popular and be centered around 0/20/20/0/30 (this one much better imo, especially if you slot EP to compensate for losing defy pain) or 0/20/30/0/20 depending on which one you need for your group, balanced or pure survivability. Ironically the straight dmg decrease affects zerker/near zerker hammer builds the most, rather than the PVT crap you see in zerg hammer trains, so higher-skilled players will be feeling the effects, especially during solo/duo roaming. Hammer trains will still likely be run despite the nerfs for sheer stun pressure. One thing to consider is that, by going deeper into arms to get master UF trait, you will be increasing your crit chance in addition to adding a 10% increased crit chance to burst skills. This will allow you to sub out more precision gear for some other stat of your choice, which acts as a bit of a counterbalance to the hit in toughness or crit dmg/burst recharge that you take, depending on your build.

Relative increase in popularity of condi ss+lb dire war will ensue (so boring to play and basically skill-less, spam condis and immob and win), the condi necro nerfs are counteracted by nerf from war’s, their #1 enemy that could stunlock and kill them in fights. War’s will still be able to stunlock but will have much harder time killing them.

Skullcrack telegraph will probably be LOLer readable now, 1/2 second cast time puts it on par with a standard hammer auto (roll eyes). Meanwhile other classes get untelegraphed, ranged instant cast abilities that can hit like a truck (power/hybrid rifle engie anyone)

Axe still blows.

Condi spam rules this game, and that’s apparently the direction Anet wants to continue to shove the meta by hard nerfing one of the builds specifically designed to counter immobile, condi-spamming classes and builds.

Overall hammer will still be able to serve its function of stunning, but may not be able to apply significant pressure against back line enemies to warrant enemy team to actually do anything about it in a small group setting. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

Fast hands locked into the 15 minor trait slot is still preventing us from having any sort of build diversity. Tactics tree still blows chunks. Strength tree still blows chunks.

So, the viable small group roaming builds are now:

1) Nerfed hammer war spec 0/20/20/0/30 or 0/20/30/0/20

2) Condi ss+ LB war

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

And that’s literally it.

0/20/20/0/30 . A true warrior can surive without cleansing ire. It was a passive crap anyway , ground target aoe spam to remove conditions was too easy.

a t s e.9614:

0/20/20/0/30 . A true warrior can surive without cleansing ire. It was a passive crap anyway , ground target aoe spam to remove conditions was too easy.

Umm no.Cleansing ire is active condi removal and passive on andrenaline gain.If you dont slot it and have decent enough defence to take in all the hits youre dps and control will drop significantly since no more andrenaline to pop earthshatter hence less earthshatters = less dps overall so basicly you still do more dps on a tankier build than on a zerker build.Leave warriors issues to those who main warriors with 2k+ hours thx.The other andrenaline gain traits(looking at arms tree) itìs only good for fast attacking weapons and hammer is slow.You will need to either spec shouts to gain andrenaline wich will drop your survavibility even more or rely on axe for it. Needs cleansing ire or there is not really much point to chose hammer.

deathTouch.9706:

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

I don’t see it being viable just by moving crack shot down to adept.. I know bc i run sometimes that combo for some lol and its performs poorly making me close to freekill.

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

I don’t see it being viable just by moving crack shot down to adept.. I know bc i run sometimes that combo for some lol and its performs poorly making me close to freekill.

It’s viable right now with crack shot as a master trait. Convenant in AoN uses it, check out some of his vids on youtube. In fact I’d go so far as saying it’s necessary to do some of the outnumbered fights we do in WvW.

It’s extremely low margin of error though and you have to go full zerker to get full effect.

deathTouch.9706:

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

I don’t see it being viable just by moving crack shot down to adept.. I know bc i run sometimes that combo for some lol and its performs poorly making me close to freekill.

It’s viable right now with crack shot as a master trait. Convenant in AoN uses it, check out some of his vids on youtube. In fact I’d go so far as saying it’s necessary to do some of the outnumbered fights we do in WvW.

It’s extremely low margin of error though and you have to go full zerker to get full effect.

So basically..killshot and run for life? Goes full zerker = 0 defense, anything that touch ya is deadly. 0 condi removal, again sounds cool i think.

I do runs that in hybrid build and even if i land kill shot is far from being deadly, as the average outcome is about 6-9k based on target armor. The olny ones that got 1 shooted from killshot was pure gc thieves/eles. Rest can take a lot of punisment and its still hard to land. Feels balanced imo.

As for my hybrid fully buffed:
2456 power
73% crit dmg
Leg rifle.

deathTouch.9706:

Hammer builds will become less popular and be centered around 0/20/20/0/30 (this one much better imo, especially if you slot EP to compensate for losing defy pain) or 0/20/30/0/20 depending on which one you need for your group, balanced or pure survivability.

Players were not taking GM traits in the GM line on Defense. They were taking Cleansing Ire and Merciless Hammer. If you go 20 points in Defense, you’re going to lose one of those two.

Redscope.6215:

deathTouch.9706:

Hammer builds will become less popular and be centered around 0/20/20/0/30 (this one much better imo, especially if you slot EP to compensate for losing defy pain) or 0/20/30/0/20 depending on which one you need for your group, balanced or pure survivability.

Players were not taking GM traits in the GM line on Defense. They were taking Cleansing Ire and Merciless Hammer. If you go 20 points in Defense, you’re going to lose one of those two.

Remember that was only a WvW analysis.

I never ran cleansing ire in small group wvw because I relied on passive condi reduction and anything significant was cleared immediately by one of our dedicated supports, of which we run at least 1 for every 4 members of our group and split between parties if we have more than 1. Instead I ran defy pain + balanced stance/dolyak sig/berserker’s stance which was absolutely ideal for what I needed to do in fights: lock down necros/enemy backline + CC downed clumps to keep them in our AoE.

The issue with cleansing ire was the only reliable way to use it was through LB, as any other weapon is extremely vulnerable to being blocked by aegis, being dodged, or being blinded, and not clearing that 20 stacks of confusion or bleeds fast was a sure way to die. So it was either used as Hambow in pvp or ss + lb in wvw. In wvw running hambow was a sure way to die in outnumbered fights because of complete lack of mobility that prevented you from kiting when needed.

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

I don’t see it being viable just by moving crack shot down to adept.. I know bc i run sometimes that combo for some lol and its performs poorly making me close to freekill.

It’s viable right now with crack shot as a master trait. Convenant in AoN uses it, check out some of his vids on youtube. In fact I’d go so far as saying it’s necessary to do some of the outnumbered fights we do in WvW.

It’s extremely low margin of error though and you have to go full zerker to get full effect.

So basically..killshot and run for life? Goes full zerker = 0 defense, anything that touch ya is deadly. 0 condi removal, again sounds cool i think.

I do runs that in hybrid build and even if i land kill shot is far from being deadly, as the average outcome is about 6-9k based on target armor. The olny ones that got 1 shooted from killshot was pure gc thieves/eles. Rest can take a lot of punisment and its still hard to land. Feels balanced imo.

As for my hybrid fully buffed:
2456 power
73% crit dmg
Leg rifle.

Here’s it in action. Requires kiting and good communication/coordination with team members. The 100b + EP is used as a way to massively spike AoE damage on a clump of players, usually, but not exclusively, when they attempt to rez a teammate.

Notice how when our DPS gets hit by large burst friendly support immediately responds in kind with condi clear/heals/protection/stab and whatever else is needed.

It’s also good solo if you’re aware of what types of skills you need to dodge/evade/EP on with opponents.

This vid was recorded a little while ago but he still runs the same build to the same degree of effectiveness.

deathTouch.9706:

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

I don’t see it being viable just by moving crack shot down to adept.. I know bc i run sometimes that combo for some lol and its performs poorly making me close to freekill.

It’s viable right now with crack shot as a master trait. Convenant in AoN uses it, check out some of his vids on youtube. In fact I’d go so far as saying it’s necessary to do some of the outnumbered fights we do in WvW.

It’s extremely low margin of error though and you have to go full zerker to get full effect.

So basically..killshot and run for life? Goes full zerker = 0 defense, anything that touch ya is deadly. 0 condi removal, again sounds cool i think.

I do runs that in hybrid build and even if i land kill shot is far from being deadly, as the average outcome is about 6-9k based on target armor. The olny ones that got 1 shooted from killshot was pure gc thieves/eles. Rest can take a lot of punisment and its still hard to land. Feels balanced imo.

As for my hybrid fully buffed:
2456 power
73% crit dmg
Leg rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyUDtmWhzw8

Here’s it in action. Requires kiting and good communication/coordination with team members. The 100b + EP is used as a way to massively spike AoE damage on a clump of players, usually, but not exclusively, when they attempt to rez a teammate.

Notice how when our DPS gets hit by large burst friendly support immediately responds in kind with condi clear/heals/protection/stab and whatever else is needed.

It’s also good solo if you’re aware of what types of skills you need to dodge/evade/EP on with opponents.

This vid was recorded a little while ago but he still runs the same build to the same degree of effectiveness.

I hope ur not serious with that vid, do u? Im talking about competive pvp not about few scrubs that are worse than casual hotjoin heroes. With people like that in the vid i don’t have any problems either, and i would quit forums, pvp if i did and stay silence as some random pve scrub that enjoys living story and quaqqan backpack, but i don’t.

And i can’t see it performing in any 1v1, single reflection, some condi engi/necro and gg. If u want to prove me a gs+rifle build being viable do it with people that actually knows how to play.

Anyways its a thread about hammer.

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

I don’t see it being viable just by moving crack shot down to adept.. I know bc i run sometimes that combo for some lol and its performs poorly making me close to freekill.

It’s viable right now with crack shot as a master trait. Convenant in AoN uses it, check out some of his vids on youtube. In fact I’d go so far as saying it’s necessary to do some of the outnumbered fights we do in WvW.

It’s extremely low margin of error though and you have to go full zerker to get full effect.

So basically..killshot and run for life? Goes full zerker = 0 defense, anything that touch ya is deadly. 0 condi removal, again sounds cool i think.

I do runs that in hybrid build and even if i land kill shot is far from being deadly, as the average outcome is about 6-9k based on target armor. The olny ones that got 1 shooted from killshot was pure gc thieves/eles. Rest can take a lot of punisment and its still hard to land. Feels balanced imo.

As for my hybrid fully buffed:
2456 power
73% crit dmg
Leg rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyUDtmWhzw8

Here’s it in action. Requires kiting and good communication/coordination with team members. The 100b + EP is used as a way to massively spike AoE damage on a clump of players, usually, but not exclusively, when they attempt to rez a teammate.

Notice how when our DPS gets hit by large burst friendly support immediately responds in kind with condi clear/heals/protection/stab and whatever else is needed.

It’s also good solo if you’re aware of what types of skills you need to dodge/evade/EP on with opponents.

This vid was recorded a little while ago but he still runs the same build to the same degree of effectiveness.

I hope ur not serious with that vid, do u? Im talking about competive pvp not about few scrubs that are worse than casual hotjoin heroes. With people like that in the vid i don’t have any problems either, and i would quit forums, pvp if i did and stay silence as some random pve scrub that enjoys living story and quaqqan backpack, but i don’t.

And i can’t see it performing in any 1v1, single reflection, some condi engi/necro and gg. If u want to prove me a gs+rifle build being viable do it with people that actually knows how to play.

Anyways its a thread about hammer.

How many times do I have to say my analysis is for small group WvW roaming before you understand my analysis pertains to small group WvW roaming and not sPvP?

1) From small-group/zerbusting WvW warrior perspective:

2) …especially during solo/duo roaming

3) So, the viable small group roaming builds are now:

deathTouch.9706:

How many times do I have to say my analysis is for small group WvW roaming before you understand my analysis pertains to small group WvW roaming and not sPvP?

Actually im talking about spvp, solo roaming/small group in wvw. I think its can be olny somehow average in small group, but other than that its terrible. Any organized roaming group will focus the warrior first and take him down before he get time to press EP

Scoobaniec.9561:

deathTouch.9706:

How many times do I have to say my analysis is for small group WvW roaming before you understand my analysis pertains to small group WvW roaming and not sPvP?

Actually im talking about spvp, solo roaming/small group in wvw. I think its can be olny somehow average in small group, but other than that its terrible. Any organized roaming group will focus the warrior first and take him down before he get time to press EP

Well, our performance against even and slightly-outnumbered fights against guilds like GF, NS and Agg speaks for itself I think.

If even one person can find a way to make a particular build work well against other top roaming guilds in the game, then it’s really a L2P issue for anyone having trouble with it.

Let’s keep an eye on the fact they also plan to nerf Vigor gains on many classes.

GOSU.9574:

Let’s keep an eye on the fact they also plan to nerf Vigor gains on many classes.

Only spammy ones, with close to 100% uptime. We hardly can get such, because you need to have traited warhorn and HEAVY investment into boon duration to get even close to such thing.

pantsforbirds.9032:

I think the problem is hammer brings good aoe burst damage whole also proving cc. It’s too much utility and damage together. 12k damage is a very large amount of damage for using 3 skills that are aoe and stun/knockdown. An ele or thief that used theist stunbreak already (say against a skullcrack from the warrior) can easily be killed without every getting to use a skill. If you use hammer #4 you can easily get off 5 and earthshaker and down the opponent without them being able to retaliate. You also have to remember that anytime the warrior is ccing an opponent they are also getting health from HS and adrenal healing (which most warriors use right now).

I think the hammer nerfs are a good idea. If you want more damage now you will have to trait for it, but if you don’t you still have a weapon that has great utility on every part of the weapon.

I don’t think you’ve thought about this enough. Basically, those 4,5,f1 combo would only net around 5-8k of AOE damage. Backbreaker is single target. So you’ve got 2 abilities, 1 a knock back, and 1 that’s actually useful which is a stun (earth shaker). Backbreaker is a single target. Even then, an imobilize is more useful than Earth shaker because it’s usually less readable and forces them to stand still. It’s harder to get out of an imobilize than it is for a stun. This is assuming they crit and that you’re not weakened, blinded, or they have protection….. There’s so many factors that can prevent a good warrior from using a combo. The damage is already shrugable if you know the animations.

How are they a good idea when it’s an overall damage nerf by atleast 20-27% and it forces you to pick up merciless hammer just to negate those changes? This doesn’t make sense when they come with the tone that they want to encourage build diversity. The weapon itself has horrible utility compared to anything else a guard can do for you.

Rednik.3809:

GOSU.9574:

Let’s keep an eye on the fact they also plan to nerf Vigor gains on many classes.

Only spammy ones, with close to 100% uptime. We hardly can get such, because you need to have traited warhorn and HEAVY investment into boon duration to get even close to such thing.

This. After putting 5 into a minor trait on my guard, I can almost guarantee permanent vigor as long as I land a crit every 5-6 seconds. Warriors themselves don’t gain any benefit from dodging, and our endurance meter recharges very slowly without vigor.

I think I can say that decreasing a warrior’s damage, which is basically the only thing they have going for them (endure pain aside), will practically decrease his overall survival.

We already have such low utility as is compared to other classes that get a f2,f3,f4.

Alex.4150:

I just don’t like how hammer warriors can have the same output in damage as a full zerker warrior, when they don’t have to sacrifice defense, and don’t have to stack precision in jewels, etc. Just wish they would something for burst classes for once.

because they nerfed zerker wars build’s damage hard right before the stunlock thing happens(even tho wars were free kill)

now they slowly getting the build back, by removing icd of spec legs, but still nothing like before.

Lighter.5631:

Alex.4150:

I just don’t like how hammer warriors can have the same output in damage as a full zerker warrior, when they don’t have to sacrifice defense, and don’t have to stack precision in jewels, etc. Just wish they would something for burst classes for once.

because they nerfed zerker wars build’s damage hard right before the stunlock thing happens(even tho wars were free kill)

now they slowly getting the build back, by removing icd of spec legs, but still nothing like before.

Actually leg specialist with no cd was a bug.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Lighter.5631:

Alex.4150:

I just don’t like how hammer warriors can have the same output in damage as a full zerker warrior, when they don’t have to sacrifice defense, and don’t have to stack precision in jewels, etc. Just wish they would something for burst classes for once.

because they nerfed zerker wars build’s damage hard right before the stunlock thing happens(even tho wars were free kill)

now they slowly getting the build back, by removing icd of spec legs, but still nothing like before.

Actually leg specialist with no cd was a bug.

and eff it.

honestly cba with this game anymore, first pve nonsense in wvw, now nerf to my favourite class’s weapon. going back to sc2

Since I found out about the upcoming nerf to Hammer… I decided to prepare by dropping Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless hammer to try to somewhat equal the new nerfs that are coming. Keep in mind this analysis is only for WVW and my toon is in mostly zerk gear with a few cavalier pieces, with hammer and sword shield.

So far it has been much harder to defeat people I fight and the burst is insanely lower. But, I still win vs most classes in a 1v1 fight. I have always had a hard time with mesmers and with my self nerf they have become impossible. Because you only have a small window of a few seconds to burst them before they teleport or invis or have aegis up again. I would say after the patch goes live a smart mesmer will laugh at all warriors, but vs other classes warrior will be ok. But the one thing I cannot test is how weak hammer will be vs someone with Stability since my self nerf only takes the damage away from stunned targets. I’m quite sure even with my 99% crit damage it will hit like a wet noodle… but until that day I am trying to stay positive and will continue to use this “self nerf” to ready my body for the nerf hammer.

Anet is on the right track.

The problem of the Warrior isn’t the CC.
Or Dmg.
Or sustain.
Or mobility.
Or highest hp/armor combo.

Is that they can easily bring all of them at same time with very little effort.
Alone, they’re acceptable.

Then surely how to fix this might be debatable – taking away dmg from hammer (cc weapon) and uncalled crit chance from low precision CC builds (unspecting foe) – but that’s another topic.

Since I have a PhD in mathematics and astrology I feel eligible to give a prognosis here.
I spent hours making, erasing and remaking charts, rolling dices and mashing numbers into my calculator and came up with this:

Hammer before: Op
Hammer after: Little less Op

More details to come

The traits don’t concern me that much, but that huge raw damage nerf to the hammer is just uncalled for.

I’m just waiting for all the FOTM hammer kids to bail.

I’ll just sit here and continue to own.

AndrewSX.3794:

Anet is on the right track.

The problem of the Warrior isn’t the CC.
Or Dmg.
Or sustain.
Or mobility.
Or highest hp/armor combo.

Is that they can easily bring all of them at same time with very little effort.
Alone, they’re acceptable.

Then surely how to fix this might be debatable – taking away dmg from hammer (cc weapon) and uncalled crit chance from low precision CC builds (unspecting foe) – but that’s another topic.

I’m not sure what to think when yous say we bring all of the above about easily. I think compared to a guard (the other heavy class) we have significantly less sustain AND damage even when both classes have the same gear. We have to run certain builds that render us as support like shout heals, or carry healing signet+adrenal reserves which really forces us to put more emphasis on our builds. I think that without the spike damage from a hammer, killing anyone will become much more difficult than it already is. My argument is that hammer is very telegraphed. The damage it does I believe is justified because most of those attacks are dodged when I fight someone who knows my class. It’s not like Earth Shaker and backbreaker have a 1/4 cast time….

So if we know we have low survival with berserker builds, we cannot really have a “heavy armor” play style without hitting like a rabbit. It doesn’t make sense to me.

Is it the recent buff to shout heals that caused this outbreak? In all honesty I thought that’s the last area warriors needed improvement on.

Super Wilson.7408:

Since I found out about the upcoming nerf to Hammer… I decided to prepare by dropping Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless hammer to try to somewhat equal the new nerfs that are coming. Keep in mind this analysis is only for WVW and my toon is in mostly zerk gear with a few cavalier pieces, with hammer and sword shield.

So far it has been much harder to defeat people I fight and the burst is insanely lower. But, I still win vs most classes in a 1v1 fight. I have always had a hard time with mesmers and with my self nerf they have become impossible. Because you only have a small window of a few seconds to burst them before they teleport or invis or have aegis up again. I would say after the patch goes live a smart mesmer will laugh at all warriors, but vs other classes warrior will be ok. But the one thing I cannot test is how weak hammer will be vs someone with Stability since my self nerf only takes the damage away from stunned targets. I’m quite sure even with my 99% crit damage it will hit like a wet noodle… but until that day I am trying to stay positive and will continue to use this “self nerf” to ready my body for the nerf hammer.

This is a hilarious approach, but the Merciless Hammer trait is the boost we really needed. Post-patch, this trait will be on every hammer warrior’s traitbook because you’ll be forced to take it and probably along with UF. It’s hard enough as is to kill a good mesmer (don’t even try sometimes), as well as other long endurance classes like an ele…. or a decent guard.

Kai.9182:

The traits don’t concern me that much, but that huge raw damage nerf to the hammer is just uncalled for.

I agree. I feel like they are erasing parts of very intricate and well designed combat by slowly migrating away from burst until burst will kill almost as slowly as conditions. I don’t understand why this is because as long as you carry a stunbreak, stability, or protection then hammer damage can be pretty easily mitigated. 1 of the 3 is not hard to do.

limonovich.4971:

honestly cba with this game anymore, first pve nonsense in wvw, now nerf to my favourite class’s weapon. going back to sc2

Be careful. You might get flagged spam by all the people who don’t see through cosmetic RNG monopoly. -____________-

nicknamenick.2437:

Warrior:
The overall goal here is to reduce the damage for every warrior. This means reducing some dependency on going 30 points into discipline for Burst Mastery, making warriors spend 10 more points in Arms to get the benefit of Unsuspecting Foe. We also reduced the damage on the hammer’s burst skill to separate the control from the damage, but no compensation. Because we do mind warriors doing massive damage, or doing great area of effect control, so we’re trying hard to prevent them from easily doing both. We also increased the readability of Skull Crack, which will allow opposing players to react very easily and in time. Combustive Shot on longbow also saw some more rework. It will scale worse for each adrenaline levels, but still provide strong burning per adrenaline level, yet the raw damage was toned down just to reduce the adrenaline gain from it.

Much better

What they don’t understand is that our damage comes from control. It’s hard enough to control effectively as is when people know these telegraphed animations.

PillageYourVillage.7548:

Since I have a PhD in mathematics and astrology I feel eligible to give a prognosis here.
I spent hours making, erasing and remaking charts, rolling dices and mashing numbers into my calculator and came up with this:

Hammer before: Op
Hammer after: Little less Op

More details to come

???

PillageYourVillage.7548:

Since I have a PhD in mathematics and astrology I feel eligible to give a prognosis here.
I spent hours making, erasing and remaking charts, rolling dices and mashing numbers into my calculator and came up with this:

Hammer before: Op
Hammer after: Little less Op

More details to come

Care to share your numbers?

Kai.9182:

The traits don’t concern me that much, but that huge raw damage nerf to the hammer is just uncalled for.

Maybe you were not paying attention but
Anet is on the right track.

The problem of the Warrior isn’t the CC.
Or Dmg.
Or sustain.
Or mobility.
Or highest hp/armor combo.

Is that they can easily bring all of them at same time with very little effort.