Guild Wars 2

ZenonSeth.5739:

I don’t know who’s OP or what, but I have a related question:
If Warriors get

1. Highest direct damage
2. Highest armor
3. Highest health

What exactly is the trade-off for other classes that are obviously deficient in at least one of those areas? Meaning, how is this balanced?

Warriors have less healing than other professions, for one thing. And while they have more health than a guardian, the guardian has a awful lot of tricks up his sleeve to even the score. In fact the whole game is about how you go about what you do.

Necromancers have the same high health as warriors, but they have lower armor. On the other hand, necros have what is essentially a second health bar to get them out of trouble and also do damage, in death shroud.

Guardians have more boons at their disposal than any other profession. I dare say guardians pound for pound are more survivable than warriors.

Mesmers bring a lot of utility to the scene. Though they don’t have high health or armor, they have other ways to mitigate damage. I have one phantasm, for example, that halves the damage I take while I’m up. I’m also traited to take less damage for each clone I have. And the ability to shatter clones to get different effects can be very helpful. There are also mesmer stealth skills, condition removal and boons, and a portal. There’s a lot a mesmer can do to bedazzle others.

Eles have low armor and health, but lots of different ways to heal and defend and also they’re probably the most mobile profession in the game. Ever try to catch a decent ele in WvW? Good luck. In fact, with some of the bunker builds, they can be as hard to kill as warriors.

There’s even an engineer bunker build that’s really really tough to kill. Engineers get kits that can be quite useful, including grenade kits, bomb kits, they get a flame thrower and for support an elixir gun.

Now admittedly there are harder professions and easier professions. Warriors, for the most part, are easy out of the box. But that doesn’t mean other professions don’t have answers to what the warrior has. Often those professions have to be played better to get the same advantage.

A really good ele or a really good mesmer are worth their weight. Warriors have a much lower learning curve.

Just make your own group.

warriors aren’t OP. good,yes. One of the only classes anet says is where they want it, yes. defined by their 100blade crits, BINGO.
I’v seen players of almost every class that make my jaw drop with amazement at how skilled and good they can be if used right. warriors are the most popular for its easier learning curve (the sword stabs this way) and its 1 button high burst dps.

The Warrior advantage is often overstated. While 100B spam isn’t the most ideal option in PvE, it’s the easiest to do and one of the easier methods to quantify. Someone on the hunter forum found that a ranger does 50% of the damage with their greatsword that a Warrior using greatsword does. Now while this may seem alarming to some, remember that the Ranger is actually designed intentionally to do 50% of the damage because the remaining 50% is supposedly coming from the pet.

So is it Warriors are overpowered, or is the fact that a lack of real damage statistics and glaring class disparity is more at fault? I’d argue there’s nothing wrong with Warriors in PvE and that it’s more an issue of other classes either not being equal or that other classes simply lack the attractive numbers that 100b throws on the screen.

If thieves could stay alive, they do similar damage.
Rangers do similar damage if pets legitimately lived up to what ANet says they should do.
Eles do similar, but less damage but bring infinitely more utility.
Necros do similar on longer boss type fights but don’t do well against trash or scripted stuff.

My 4x Warrior + 1 mesmer did CoF in 8.5 mins (a far cry from the 7.5 record, I know). My 3 Ranger, Guardian, and Necro group did CoF in 10mins.

Not a large enough gap to worry about. If players refuse anything but 4 warriors and a mesmer, then find another group because the other one already has 4 people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

Let’s just take the 5 signet warrior, since he’s probably the one causing this thread:

+ easy to play (5 passives)
+ high baseline stats (health, armor, +200 pre due to signets)
+ easy to level

Negatives?
- performs extremely poorly outside of COF1.
- no party utility.
- low DPS in situations requiring thought or durability

I think nerfing COF1 is all that’s needed to nerf zerk warriors.

Warriors wont have a hard time finding speed runs party for dngeons etc. But its not needed to be a warrior.

I have played on this necromancer character for 600+ hours and i have NEVER had troubles finding a party. Its not needed really, if you just learn how to play your class right, all classes are very good!

Homonavn.6348:

Warriors wont have a hard time finding speed runs party for dngeons etc. But its not needed to be a warrior.

I have played on this necromancer character for 600+ hours and i have NEVER had troubles finding a party. Its not needed really, if you just learn how to play your class right, all classes are very good!

Same for my engineer.

Well I’ve never had trouble getting runs with my mesmer, but it’s irrelevant, because I almost never pug and because most people like having mesmers around anyway. However, I’ve run most dungeons on my engie and several on my ranger, all with pretty good results.

yes.

highest health pool (19.5k base health pool at 80)

best defense

best survival

highest damage output in zerker gear with all of the above combined.

only reason i dont play gw2 anymore is due to the huge class imballance for pve when it comes to zerker geard (lets face it who takes a non zerker thief to a dungeon, if they take a thief ever).

nice game. really poor class balance / design (hello engineers).

and what happend to just having pure direct damage casters (ele comes to mind) all these stupid aoe and burn stuff.

You will be awesome in PvE. You will be terrible in PvP.

RebelYell.7132:

Warriors are not OP.

They have distinct advantages in DPS over other professions, yes, but those professions could be buffed to their level, rather than the other way around.

Warriors still have to jump through hoops like the badly disguised QTE known as “dodging”. They still have to throw boulders at ghosts. They’re not godmode.

The only thing warriors weren’t the best at in PvE was support. Thankfully the devs realized that other classes might be useful for something so they promptly gave a huge buff to banner warriors so they could be the best support class as well.

Warriors are really good in PvE.

However, in PvP, they don’t really have a role to fill, so people don’t really need them, they are not BAD, but they aren’t just worth taking, they work great in random SPvP though, but not teamed tournament.

From my PoV there is no best class and there will never be one.

We don’t even have damage meters, no way to really check what do we bring to the party like in WoW where u have all these damage meters, the math behind everything u can see the numbers and just say this guy is worse because his class is doing less damage.

Just play what u like and than try to think how to perform the best.

Also keep in mind that ranged classes have a natural adventage over melees. With good positioning you don’t have to dodge, you don’t have to heal a lot and you focus on doing dmg. Also you don’t lose time to catch up to enemy. You keep the damage flowing.

Yes, warriors are overpowered in PvE.

Just take a look yourself: http://gw2lfg.com/.

Warriors are not OP. They are an example of a successful class design (well, perhaps sPvP is an exception). They have solid weapon skills for a variety of weapon types, synergistic traits in a variety of builds, and good damage across the board. They are only faceroll/facetank in certain stages and certain places in the game, everywhere else you have to be able to play in order to stay alive. My warrior feels squishy when I am actually focused and taking damage. In significant fights player skill is involved as much as with any profession. They are easier to level and more forgiving there than any other profession, imo.

Vayne.8563:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, most of the PVe content is so easy already in this game, why would anyone want to roll a profession to make it even easier?

Gold. If you can faceroll a dungeon in 6 minutes getting all the loot, then why use a class designed to take any longer. Sad but true; even if you prefer playing one of your alts, the warrior can be used to equip it for you quicker than you could do it yourself.

Because there’s more to this game for me than getting all the loot. Because those people who play just to get all the loot, over all, are less satisfied with this game than people like me. Because loot in general, as it works today, has pretty much destroyed the RPG section of the MMO.

I mean I know a whole lot of people who play games like Skyrim and Dragon age, and almost none of them are in it just for the loot.

So yeah, if all you want to do is farm, and farm and farm roll a warrior. If you want to enjoy the game in other ways, roll what you want.

GW2 profession design involves philosophy about each class. In those philosophies, versatility, mobility, damage, etc. are all viewed as trade-offs. The problem is that the current meta-think about PvE is that damage trumps everything else. Unfortunately, the game does not present enough challenges that high damage alone cannot overcome.

OP is often brought up in relation to PvP, where warriors are not viewed as being a top tier class. Warrior’s two highest damage skills (Hundred Blades and Kill Shot) root the warrior while they do damage, and are easy to avoid and/or interrupt.

I think warriors are highly overrated in any content that isnt cof1. And even there I started questioning them due to several reasons.

I don´t even want to take random warriors with me anymore because I found that a lot (not all) warriors make incredible mistakes… Mistakes… That are just…. incredible to do… They often rendered me speechles on how bad they were. Especially gs warriors… ugh!
Unfortunately most random (and some not random) warriors I played with are the ones lying nonstop in the dirt, gathering daisies. I think that part makes about 3/4 of all the warriors I met.
I´ve never encountered so many… player fails in any other class… Mesmer is my number 2 in the most-fails award but still far away from the warrior.
The other 1/4 are average. At least they dont die. They do what a warrior does. Sadly no more.
I have only met 1 warrior… ONE warrior from BWE1 until now… that I consider a skilled player.
And really?That´s kitten low. I saw more rangers and thieves that amazed the heck out of me in dungeons.

Now either I have too high expectations of the class, was an unlucky person because I only met bad warriors or they really got too used to their cof1.

long story short: Maybe they are the best class in cof1 and other faceroll dungeons but I found that most warrior players are extremely bad outside those dungeons.
Now is this an issue with the class or the playerbase?

Cero.5132:

I think warriors are highly overrated in any content that isnt cof1. And even there I started questioning them due to several reasons.

I don´t even want to take random warriors with me anymore because I found that a lot (not all) warriors make incredible mistakes… Mistakes… That are just…. incredible to do… They often rendered me speechles on how bad they were. Especially gs warriors… ugh!
Unfortunately most random (and some not random) warriors I played with are the ones lying nonstop in the dirt, gathering daisies. I think that part makes about 3/4 of all the warriors I met.
I´ve never encountered so many… player fails in any other class… Mesmer is my number 2 in the most-fails award but still far away from the warrior.
The other 1/4 are average. At least they dont die. They do what a warrior does. Sadly no more.
I have only met 1 warrior… ONE warrior from BWE1 until now… that I consider a skilled player.
And really?That´s kitten low. I saw more rangers and thieves that amazed the heck out of me in dungeons.

Now either I have too high expectations of the class, was an unlucky person because I only met bad warriors or they really got too used to their cof1.

long story short: Maybe they are the best class in cof1 and other faceroll dungeons but I found that most warrior players are extremely bad outside those dungeons.
Now is this an issue with the class or the playerbase?

IME, it’s a combination of people playing a class for its own sake, just to farm an specific area of the game. I have seen beginning players have people power level their Warrior to 80 just to farm it… I am not sure they really understand the game mechanics yet, they are just following the crowd, which is also a promising but false shortcut towards being “good” at GW2 (not to mention, people copying builds mindlessly, expecting to succeed without experience because they are using the “right” gear and/or build.)

Warriors are not OP, to be honest, I play mine because she’s fun to play and a lovely character. I never made her to farm anything, just to test the Profession with an interesting character which happened to captivate me over time. I do not have Berserker’s armor-just Ruby Orbs and Exquisite Jewels because they work well with the rest of my equipment, not because I am supposed to follow any artificially prescribed meta build. In fact, the armor she has follows a particular theme I chose for her (min.-maxed to a limited extent, but more to meet a particular RP concept I had for her.) She was a pain to level at some points, even with the boring leveling build, simply put because for “OP”, Warriors can be very squishy under the right and wrong circumstances (if you don’t spec a certain way, you may deal poorly with conditions, and the self heals are not impressive at all-it’s hard to survive for long if you keep yourself under focused fire on PvE.) Compared to her, my Staff condition Mesmer and Guardian had a VERY EASY time leveling solo. I had a harder time with my guardian than with my Mesmer just because I was learning the game back then-IMO, Guardian is probably easiest, followed by Mesmer, THEN my Warrior. I feel “powerful” now, but I have learned what her strengths and weaknesses are, and that I can’t simply play my Warrior as I do my Guardian or any other class, really-so in short, I don’t agree Warriors are really “OP” for PvE content (my Guardian has her beat soloing Champs, because of her much better survivability.)

Some other weapon skills should be boosted so that 99% of Warriors don’t stick to 100 blades-either that, or balance its damage so that it still is powerful, but not “the only viable” PvE choice. Yes, I know other weapons hit hard too (I myself avoid Greatsword), but so many people think it’s “the way to go” towards “max DPS” (which is another endlessly perpetuated non-fact: “GW2 is all about DPS”… no it’s all about the way you want to play, DPS or otherwise.)

For other Profession lovers-that people “prefer” Warrior for some content is not the class’s fault (OP, etc.) but people, and people’s alone. Well, those Dungeon paths (or THAT path…) also need some revision, so those individuals have less of an excuse to promote Profession-exclusivity in the first place. The Banner buff was good-they aren’t still as powerful as a Guardian would be in a defensive support role. Certainly not an “OP” change. Play and enjoy the profession(s) you like-in time, I am sure they will revise things enough, and I doubt that CoF 1 will remain untouched forever. Warriors have plenty of weaknesses too, and that not only limited to PvP play.

Wooboost.8527:

In this game damage is all that matters, that’s what warriors do…lots & lots of damage (pve)

You are so incredibly wrong I picked up my keyboard and slapped it over my face, because using my hand wouldn’t have been enough… Warriors are powerful yes, but they are straightforward, they only have big numbers, there are no mechanics.

I have 3 80s, all geared in exotics, and played every class to at least 40, Warrior is so boring. Fights are easy, but really other than good numbers what do you bring to a group? You don’t have the boons and healing of an Ele, shielding of a Guardian, or the ability to rez from the shadows like a Thief. Every class brings something awesome to a group, warrior does not.

PS: My engineer main kills warriors in tPvP without falling below 90% health unless they are bunker, in which has I will sometimes hit 80%. All warrior PvP builds are simple, thus easy to counter.

Despite thieves in this thread or other classes but warrior might claim, they actually get kicked from important dungeons.
So yes, if you want to PvE and people loving you, you roll a warrior. It’s how this game works.

Zaviel.1245:

Wooboost.8527:

In this game damage is all that matters, that’s what warriors do…lots & lots of damage (pve)

You are so incredibly wrong I picked up my keyboard and slapped it over my face, because using my hand wouldn’t have been enough… Warriors are powerful yes, but they are straightforward, they only have big numbers, there are no mechanics.

I have 3 80s, all geared in exotics, and played every class to at least 40, Warrior is so boring. Fights are easy, but really other than good numbers what do you bring to a group? You don’t have the boons and healing of an Ele, shielding of a Guardian, or the ability to rez from the shadows like a Thief. Every class brings something awesome to a group, warrior does not.

PS: My engineer main kills warriors in tPvP without falling below 90% health unless they are bunker, in which has I will sometimes hit 80%. All warrior PvP builds are simple, thus easy to counter.

I do have the boons of an ele. Ever hear of FGJ? Shielding of a guardian? I assume you mean reflect wall because shield is newb build for a guardian. Our job is DPS not to save fail kids who dont bring reflects themselves or cant kite to save them. Rez from shadows? Y SO SNEAKY. /Warbanner. Now i gave the party fury/might/swift/stability and ressed someone at the same time.

No class brings something awsomer than damage from warrior. You dont need it.

As the poster in solo lupi necro said, NECRO BRINGS CHILL, WEAK, BLEED etc… Well why did the zerk warrior do it without those things, and in a fraction of the time. Oh wait, maybe they arent as good as you think.;

Sorry, your just wrong.

All I know is that I truly love playing warrior. It is a fun class to play. I hope it continues that way.

My warrior is one of the squishiest toons I have. I run a Sonic Boon build and gear and … Jeebus I wish my heal had a recharge 1/2 of what it is now. Then again that may be the fault of the LOLMelee design brigade.

Puru.4217:

Warrior are op in pve, just like mesmer and guardians are (mesmer only really being op for dungeons or inside a group, on their own they aren’t so great).

Mesmers are in essence force multipliers (time warp, the longest duration group quickness in the game) and travel agents (portals, perfect for getting past puzzles), while warriors (and sometimes guardians) bring the hurt.

Anyways, i suspect the real issue here is not so much warriors as the workings of critical hits. It is all too easy to create builds that basically give you a 2 for 1 payout of every point of power you put in.

There is nothing equivalent on the defensive side, and so the game quickly devolves into a DPS race.

If you nerfed warriors the #2 dps would be the new warrior.

The game is designed around no trinity and no required classes. This philosophy ensures DPS > all. Even if you wanted a support class you still are encouraged to make them as dps oriented as possible.

Warrior is the only class that isn’t totally UP when it comes to dealing damage in PvE.

Cero.5132:

I think warriors are highly overrated in any content that isnt cof1. And even there I started questioning them due to several reasons.

I don´t even want to take random warriors with me anymore because I found that a lot (not all) warriors make incredible mistakes… Mistakes… That are just…. incredible to do… They often rendered me speechles on how bad they were. Especially gs warriors… ugh!
Unfortunately most random (and some not random) warriors I played with are the ones lying nonstop in the dirt, gathering daisies. I think that part makes about 3/4 of all the warriors I met.
I´ve never encountered so many… player fails in any other class… Mesmer is my number 2 in the most-fails award but still far away from the warrior.
The other 1/4 are average. At least they dont die. They do what a warrior does. Sadly no more.
I have only met 1 warrior… ONE warrior from BWE1 until now… that I consider a skilled player.
And really?That´s kitten low. I saw more rangers and thieves that amazed the heck out of me in dungeons.

Now either I have too high expectations of the class, was an unlucky person because I only met bad warriors or they really got too used to their cof1.

long story short: Maybe they are the best class in cof1 and other faceroll dungeons but I found that most warrior players are extremely bad outside those dungeons.
Now is this an issue with the class or the playerbase?

I wish I could reach this level some day.

Starbird.4029:

Was chatting with a few people in game. I’m still pretty new, and trying to get a handle on the game. All 3 of them however had just rolled Warrior, because apparently “if you want to PvE, you need to be a warrior”.

This just feels…squiffy to me. Is there any truth behind it?
Why?
Is it an issue of the class being too strong or others being too weak?

I’d hate to find myself in Burning Crusade v2 and realize at max level that I screwed myself out of endgame by making a wrong choice at the character selection screen…

Warriors are strong in PvE but no they aren’t any better then the other classes in a general sense of balance (yes they can do SOME things better, but they are also worse at others). However they are probably the easiest and fastest levelers in the game.

They are also good in WvW cause they have high AoE potential and good on-demand damage mitigation (which doesn’t last long at all, being the reason it’s horrible in sPvP).

But….. warriors are THE WORST sPvP class atm however so if you do role warrior just stay out of it for the time being :/

Here is my perspective playing warrior DD ele and P/D thief primarily.

If I want to solo content that is relatively hard to solo then I would use my DD ele. If I go into a dungeon with experienced players or one that is relatively easy I would do it on warrior. I use thief to kill some bosses that are just easier to handle with stealth access.

That being said warrior is not OP anywhere. It is solid everywhere except tpvp and can achieve the highest level of physical damage in the game that’s about it. Build diversity is actually on the wide side when compared to other classes.

Star Ace.5207:

IME, it’s a combination of people playing a class for its own sake, just to farm an specific area of the game. I have seen beginning players have people power level their Warrior to 80 just to farm it… I am not sure they really understand the game mechanics yet, they are just following the crowd, which is also a promising but false shortcut towards being “good” at GW2 (not to mention, people copying builds mindlessly, expecting to succeed without experience because they are using the “right” gear and/or build.)

Yeh I also think that´s one of the issues at hand.
Beginners who read in the forums only see:“If you want to pve you need 4 warriors and a mesmer”.
They copy a build and see! It works inside cof. Then they run any other dungeon and I can only imagine them saying: “hey, the floor is sooo beautiful, I need to take a closer look!”
If I ask them not to die so often most common thing I hear: “I landed a 100b before dying, so it´s alright!”
I think it´s ego of some ultra-mega-super-awesum-mega-super-ultra elitists that gives beginners a wrong insight.

Of course there are also many warriors out there who love their class and are not blindfolded towards the abilities of other classes.
Personally I got my war to 80, got him some exos asnd left him somewhere near the entrance of cof1.
Just couldn´t warm up with him because… A warrior does what he does very well.. But he does ONLY do, what he does. No more. No surprises, no raffinesse.

People make the mistake of claiming they are over powered because they fail to realize how uesless they really are in the game. Sure, you can face roll open PvE but take that Warrior into a dungeon in full berserker gear… you are going to have a hard time. I have had a group do CoF just as fast, if not faster, and safer than a Warrior group most of the time I play.

To be over powered one has to be proficient in all aspects of the game and not in a single corner. The fact that the “CoF Dream Team” can only operate effectively in CoF path 1 (and to some slight extent path 2) should be a very well lit light for most people.

To answer the question: No, they are not OP. They just deal high damage and excel at clearing no skill content.

Oddly, in Spvp, warriors are the easiest class to kill:

High armor, high health

BUT

Weak escaping systems
Bad condition cleansing options (Full shout warrior, maybe)
No protection (I think it’s a big part of bunker builds)
And bad healing options (You may have shouts, healing signet and regeneration from adrenaline. Nothing compared to Guardians, Elementalists and engineers)
AND warriors are forced to melee, unless they have highly predictable rifles.

What does this mean? That it’ll be hell to build a warrior as a bunker. So the most valuable amulet becomes Berserker’s Amulet. And with that, warriors are not so tough.

Yeah, tougher than other glass cannons, but the fact that you can take more damage is not much stronger than stealth, knockback or immunity/blink. If I can manage to slow them down, and if they don’t take me by surprise, I find them easier to kill than other classes.

But I must agree they have eccellent crowd control (maybe even more than engineer…) making them a potential threat in 1v1.

Starbird.4029:

Was chatting with a few people in game. I’m still pretty new, and trying to get a handle on the game. All 3 of them however had just rolled Warrior, because apparently “if you want to PvE, you need to be a warrior”.

This just feels…squiffy to me. Is there any truth behind it?
Why?
Is it an issue of the class being too strong or others being too weak?

I’d hate to find myself in Burning Crusade v2 and realize at max level that I screwed myself out of endgame by making a wrong choice at the character selection screen…

this is 100% not true
i farm faster with my thief / elementalist Orr events (lvl 80 area)
i farm better with my warrior in dungeons
For you an short description :
warrior -is newbie friendly, easy mechanism high hp / armor / high damage. However warriors don’t have any protection skills, poor escape mechanism, and vulnerable to DOT-damage over time (conditions in GW2 )

If it stands there stupidly and has easy to counter moves (i.e. PvE) warriors and easily kill it.
If it can take more than 2 steps, dodge away, and is unpredictable (s/tPvP and WvW) then poor warriors are probably going to get killed by it.

I dunno why people are acting like warriors get owned outside of CoF1. Maybe if you go 100% zerker, ruby orbs, full dps greatsword build. But anyone meleeing full time like that is gonna get eaten alive. I have a very small handful of soldier pieces on my warrior with a 20/0/0/30/20 Axe and Shield Banner build, and I still do more damage more consistently than everyone else while providing tremendous support and being very durable. Alongside guardians and mesmers, it’s still the best PvE class by a huge margin.

Have 4 level 80s fully geared — Engineer, Mesmer, Necro, and Warrior. My Warrior, in general, kills -everything- in PvE faster and with far less effort. The other classes bring a bit of specialized utility, and different levels of fun and engagement (I love my engineer, and he’s got my 100% star)… but yeah, my Warrior destroys.

They definitely feel OP to me, simply for the reason that their damage output is the highest and their skill cap (in PvE) is among the lowest. I’m okay with the damage output being very high, but I think the highest damage output should be tied to the highest skill cap.

Warrior should exist in the spot where they do 10-20% less than the best damage in game, but do it much easier than max damage output imho.

Vancext.5698:

Have 4 level 80s fully geared — Engineer, Mesmer, Necro, and Warrior. My Warrior, in general, kills -everything- in PvE faster and with far less effort. The other classes bring a bit of specialized utility, and different levels of fun and engagement (I love my engineer, and he’s got my 100% star)… but yeah, my Warrior destroys.

They definitely feel OP to me, simply for the reason that their damage output is the highest and their skill cap (in PvE) is among the lowest. I’m okay with the damage output being very high, but I think the highest damage output should be tied to the highest skill cap.

Warrior should exist in the spot where they do 10-20% less than the best damage in game, but do it much easier than max damage output imho.

That basically an endorsement for DD ele or Kits engineer to have the highest dps in the game. And honestly that just doesn’t work. No class has a skill cap so high it cant be given a rotation. No matter ho w high you feel the skill cap is on your class due to the buttons you push the fact is in order to do all that pretty dps warrior must be in melee.

Now before nades got nerfed (30% damage reduction) you could literally sit all the way in the back of a part have vulnerability and bleeds and pop more aoe dps than anyone. The funny thing is still vs more than 3 mobs aoe dps from nades will still win out.

And the funny thing the way you achieve this? Spam 1. So NO its not tied to what is the perceived skill ceiling. complex builds get lots of tools and tricks. They are hard to predict and counter. Warrior for the lack of a better word are stupid and easy to counter. There are no tricks or a bunch of tools. The reason we were given raw dps is due to this fact as the devs have stated. We kill or be killed and that’s about it.

TheGuy.3568:

That basically an endorsement for DD ele or Kits engineer to have the highest dps in the game. And honestly that just doesn’t work. No class has a skill cap so high it cant be given a rotation. No matter ho w high you feel the skill cap is on your class due to the buttons you push the fact is in order to do all that pretty dps warrior must be in melee.

Now before nades got nerfed (30% damage reduction) you could literally sit all the way in the back of a part have vulnerability and bleeds and pop more aoe dps than anyone. The funny thing is still vs more than 3 mobs aoe dps from nades will still win out.

And the funny thing the way you achieve this? Spam 1. So NO its not tied to what is the perceived skill ceiling. complex builds get lots of tools and tricks. They are hard to predict and counter. Warrior for the lack of a better word are stupid and easy to counter. There are no tricks or a bunch of tools. The reason we were given raw dps is due to this fact as the devs have stated. We kill or be killed and that’s about it.

Well, to be honest, I do think the Ele should have the highest DPS in the game — and I’m being objective… I don’t even play one. I think that distinction is better placed on them than on a Warrior. So, yes, that’s exactly what I’m endorsing and I think that’s a trade off they should get both for their more complicated rotation and their fragility.

Furthermore, I do agree with you that the old grenades were stupid OP, but that’s been gone for months now. The new nades don’t hold a candle to warrior DPS, especially since the KR nerf, and you definitely aren’t going to get far just spamming 1. I think that engineer’s intended role is sustained AoE DPS though, and even though they could use a bump, they don’t need the top DPS crown.

Because we are talking about PvE, predicting and countering simply isn’t a factor. Complicated rotations are what -can- be countered by the AI.

Vancext.5698:

TheGuy.3568:

That basically an endorsement for DD ele or Kits engineer to have the highest dps in the game. And honestly that just doesn’t work. No class has a skill cap so high it cant be given a rotation. No matter ho w high you feel the skill cap is on your class due to the buttons you push the fact is in order to do all that pretty dps warrior must be in melee.

Now before nades got nerfed (30% damage reduction) you could literally sit all the way in the back of a part have vulnerability and bleeds and pop more aoe dps than anyone. The funny thing is still vs more than 3 mobs aoe dps from nades will still win out.

And the funny thing the way you achieve this? Spam 1. So NO its not tied to what is the perceived skill ceiling. complex builds get lots of tools and tricks. They are hard to predict and counter. Warrior for the lack of a better word are stupid and easy to counter. There are no tricks or a bunch of tools. The reason we were given raw dps is due to this fact as the devs have stated. We kill or be killed and that’s about it.

Well, to be honest, I do think the Ele should have the highest DPS in the game — and I’m being objective… I don’t even play one. I think that distinction is better placed on them than on a Warrior. So, yes, that’s exactly what I’m endorsing and I think that’s a trade off they should get both for their more complicated rotation and their fragility.

Furthermore, I do agree with you that the old grenades were stupid OP, but that’s been gone for months now. The new nades don’t hold a candle to warrior DPS, especially since the KR nerf, and you definitely aren’t going to get far just spamming 1. I think that engineer’s intended role is sustained AoE DPS though, and even though they could use a bump, they don’t need the top DPS crown.

Because we are talking about PvE, predicting and countering simply isn’t a factor. Complicated rotations are what -can- be countered by the AI.

The real issue is no rotation is complex its just long. I can put it like this the basic Dd ele rotation isn’t complex. It seems that way at first do it for a month not at all. Do it for half a year and it gets boring. the chain isn’t really counterable by the ai or anything. There are ports, stability, and other tricks that allow for what is rotation with no solid counters. Now I get the part where you may feel eles dps should be king but as of right now with the array of conditions available, CC, and healing and everything else plus the fact the devs have said the class is all but OP and plan to nerf I think a dps boost is nigh out of the question. From what we have been told they want to limit burst and the class most likely to get a boost to DPS is none other than warrior for what was lost with the quickness nerf. Fact is somebody has to be on top and while many may feel the mechanics are childlike and stupid if they saw the upper levels of more “complex” builds and realize what can be done warrior wouldn’t look all that OP.

Dagger/Dagger Elementalist is the worst case of face roll I have seen in a mmo to date. Make a mistake? No problem, you have at least 3 get out of jail free cards and full heal.
Not to mention they are on a decently short cool down compared to some other classes.

I’m coming here from City of Heroes. There was no best class. No best build. No best combination of powers. No holy trinity. Run what you brung. Equal doesn’t have to mean same. Reasonable balance with variety and build complexity is possible in a game.

Not perfect balance, of course. My mains were Scrappers (Warriors). Almost all that Scrappers brought to the table was DPS, and mostly single-target DPS. In City of Heroes, AoE plus stacked buffs/debuffs were king. So Scrappers were the least desirable for teams. But I never got kicked from a team for being a Scrapper. And the Scrapper community honed our builds and honed our skills until we commanded respect among at least those in the know. But mostly, we had a lot of fun.

I play a warrior because I like straight up melee with a reasonable balance of offense and defense. I want to be in that champion’s face. I want enough survivability to stay standing. And then I want enough DPS to take it down. I don’t know if Warriors are OP. I don’t play anything else. Nerf me and I’ll still play it. I’ll find a way.

I’ll do my thinking at my job. I’ll do my thinking when I’m puzzling out the rules of the game. I’ll do my thinking when I’m coming up with my build. But when I play, I want to turn off my brain and destroy the map.

The exception will be when and if I ever get good enough for “challenge play” – soloing dungeons and the like. I know that when you’re pushing the envelope, turning off your brain isn’t an option, no matter what class you’re playing. But I’m not even close to there yet. Grats to the people who are. You’re an inspiration.

warriors are not op.
they’re just by far the easiest class to play.
in RPG’s, warriors are always the easiest class, perfect for newbies and straightforward and uncomplicated for anyone else.

on situations, where unskilled non-warriors, especially the glass professions, would be majorly punished for a mistake/bad dodge, a warrior would just…“shake it off”.

a warrior simply does not need much skill to be played successfully.
it’s a good thing btw…in any RPG, let it be action oriented or not, a warrior-type class is always reliable, thanks to his simplicity.

wauwi.9162:

warriors are not op.
they’re just by far the easiest class to play.
in RPG’s, warriors are always the easiest class, perfect for newbies and straightforward and uncomplicated for anyone else.

on situations, where unskilled non-warriors, especially the glass professions, would be majorly punished for a mistake/bad dodge, a warrior would just…“shake it off”.

a warrior simply does not need much skill to be played successfully.
it’s a good thing btw…in any RPG, let it be action oriented or not, a warrior-type class is always reliable, thanks to his simplicity.

You must be referring to PvE only.

Is the warrior OVERPOWERED? No. GW2’s warrior is delightfully complex and requires a lot of build planning and a bit of skill to play right.

Edit: don’t base your class perceptions off of wvw pugstomp music vids.

“Distinct advantage in DPS” is a Warrior/perception myth as really it is damage done in ~8s for 98% of content. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you haven’t min/max a Ele or Thief or Mesmer for burst.

The Rifle Warrior is a terror on the open wvw battlefield. I’ve teamed with a few good ones. A rifle team can coordinate their bursts, they can fire piercing shots into gateways and bridges, and 1 shot quite a few people. Throw in a couple thieves for stomping duty and you got a vicious roaming composistion.

I’ve been testing builds in Spvp and strangely enough Longbow does very well too. Probably because you can cover the entire objective circle in a fire field aoe.

a couple of things I wanted to clear up.

The “rotation” for warrior DPS is GS2-GS3-Cancel the whirl with weapon switch-Axe-1-1-1 -Axe 1-1-1 switch back to Greatsword for rinse and repeat.

THAT is the damage rotation is why warriors do the most damage. Its not the most complicated rotation in the game but its not exactly sitting there at 1500 range auto attacking.

It requires you to give up your range weapon swap so only the really skilled warriors that can exist in near constant melee range get to boast the highest damage.

Warriors also offer some of the strongest offensive support, but offer very little defensive support to make up for it.

Outside of that rotation most classes put out comparable damage with a proper spec.

soo when we are talking about warriors “over the top damage” its not the 5signit COF p1 warriors that are dishing it out.

PvE wise, warriors are very strong. TPvP on the other hand they are hands down the weakest class. Currently the only really viable build I’ve been using is a Hammer+Sword/Mace for perma knockdowns. Of course this means the second someone throws on Stability (guardians) I become worthless. The build is also only useful in team fights to lock someone down.

The thing about PvE and dungeons is that if something is “OP” it hurts people a lot less than if something is OP or UP in PvP. You can form your our group easily and have no warriors if you want but in TPvP you either have to build around having a warrior in your team or just stick with D/D Eles, Mesmers, and Guardians.