Guild Wars 2

No nerf needed. Up until a couple a months ago warriors were a joke to play. They got balanced and all of a sudden people who had been fighting this “weakest” class in the game were now losing battles to them. Warriors were always decent in wvw for condi cleanse and cc but in pvp they were a joke. Now that warriors have a decent meta people need to learn to fight warriors. Want to know how to beat a cc warrior? conditions

Ashanor.5319:

Yes. Why? Warriors give up nothing for their massive amount of survivability and damage, thanks to Unsuspecting Foe or the way condi damage works in general. Some classes are completely unable to kill a decent Warrior (See: Shatter Mesmer, Thieves in general) without a massive skill difference margin, thanks to the way those specs/classes are designed (burst damage).

You’re tolling right? This is a joke, is it not? You can’t have possibly named two of the absolute strongest classes vs warrior, one of which is a pretty hard counter, and claimed that they are weak vs warrior. lol

Then tell me why they aren’t, instead of just claiming I’m wrong and dismissing my point.

Mesmer, strictly shatter Mesmer, it’s impossible to win against your sustained healing. Shatter damage is low on your 3k+ armor, and they have no access to poison to stop your passive healing. This is excluding your defensive utilities and skills, and assuming you’re just going to run at a Mesmer like an idiot autoattacking and putting on mild pressure and stuns/condis. They’ll eventually be hit by one of your stuns and be doomed – Attrition is on your side in this one, because the Shatter Mesmer is poor at it. Condition Mesmer is another story entirely – I can see one winning against an equally skilled Warrior with some luck.

Thief – Every build they have is poor against you. Typically, they’re burst damage builds with lots of blind or lots of dodges. D/P, S/D, it doesn’t matter here. All they have to do is mess up once, run out of initiative once – and it’s game over for them, and they have to give you the point or die. The fact isn’t that you Warriors always win, it’s that in order for the Thief to win, they have to play flawlessly. Thieves spend too much time recovering versus Warriors to think about taking you down, thanks to the passive healing. And without mug or shortbow poison? You’ll never take one down, even -if- you play flawlessly.

That’s my two cents. Let’s hear yours.

bigmonto.4215:

Artaz.3819:

Level 40 in PvE is not the same as Level 80 in WvW. G’luck

And your point? I am saying how popular warrior is now, and will be even more popular once these lower lvl turn into lvl 80s. Whether its PvE or WvW, people will want to use a warrior instead of another class.

bigmonto.4215:

I, too, am deciding whether to use Guardian or a Warrior. I have a 80 Guardian. Due to the recent buff of warriors, I am leveling a warrior (currently lvl 35).

In general warrior is like a sword, vs Guardian is more like a shield.

Warrior gives more offensive buffs like fury and might, where as Guardian gives more defensive buff, like protection, regen, vigor.

Warrior is more mobile where as Guardian has more control options (pulling the enemy + area denial)

Warrior has more passive regen, while Guardian has more active heal.

In Melee Warrior does more dam in a smaller area, where as Guardian does less damage on a wider area.

Warrior has better range options and conditional dam options which is probably why player prefer warriors these days.

For Solo PvE however, I will give it to Guardian. Its easier to tank 5 to 10 mobs with Guardian and dps them all down at the same time. This result in a easier tagging and more loot.

For dungeon boss killing, warrior is more preferred. Although generally people do want at least 1 guardian in the party.

For WvW, Warrior is much better at solo roam while guardian is much more zerg friendly.

You can’t really go wrong with either, it really depends on your play style.

tbh who ever think that warrior is OP in pve are noobs, i just made a thief not long ago, and played fotm 38 full zerker sword. it was amazing, i AA up to 7k and i rarely even get hit because of the insane amount of evades and instant disengages i have and i can support teamates with SR or SS for quick kill or blast, and i can group stealth for my team to run through contents, also i can kit mobs and bosses insanely well thanks to evade as well, i played a lot of warriors in fotm, thing about warrior is that even you know all the bosses’ move and you know how to dodge, but you can’t you have limited access to evades, some times i just have to take the hits and avoid the big ones, some times i just had to go shield and have sigil of energy, and you can’t support your team in any significant way, other then buffing their stats. if they suck, you are pretty much screwed.

about DPS, best dps right now is GS ele, thief, guardian then comes warrior.

biggest issue I think with warrior’s is there counter play to different specs, this isn’t any counter play it is literally rinse and repeat for every situation, where as my engineer there are literally tons of differant ways I have to go about fighting different targets, I’m not saying that it’s harder for me or a warrior but they are forced into being so repetitive in what they do is why they are overpowered, they lack in the ability to do more then swing there weapon and to make up for it they are given heaps of passive potential that is suited to every situation.

a good example of this is comparing the engineer trait that increases my crit chance by 10% when I’m beyond 600 radius and the warrior trait that increases crit chance by 50% when a target is stunned, I have to make sure I’m 600 range away and give up that bonus when I want to use a good chunk of my hardest hitting skills, the warrior on the other hand its weapons give it great access to stuns that allow it to use such a trait in way that is very suitable to the way a warrior is played, it also costs only 10 trait points to get where as mine is 20 and clearly less effective in the many different ways I could utilize it.

I think that there needs to be a rebalancing for warrior in terms of skill to results ratio.

For instance, on my semi-bunker d/p thief, I have to spend 75% of my initiative in order to enter stealth. If I’m fighting a warrior who knows anything about thief, they’ll immediately take measures to make it hard for me to get behind them. This means I’ll have 3-4 seconds with which I have to outmaneuver my enemy and get in a position to make a backstab that will only crit for 4-5k vs. a sustain warrior, 6k if I have might.

Not only must I spend 75% of my initiative pool, I need to outplay my enemy in terms of positioning and speed in order to land a successful backstab.

With warrior on the other hand, I can get chain cc’d by a hammer warrior whose attacks crit my thief for anywhere from 3-5k dmg per hit. If I’m unlucky, I can be dead within the warrior pressing 3-4 buttons and then maybe some auto attacks.

The level of play involved with landing a backstab compared to the amount of skill required to cc train someone is where I feel the imbalance and “OPness” of warrior lies.

Yes warriors do need a nerf with necromancers and engineers, they are ruining a game. Buff elementalists thieves, everyone else is fine.

The Warrior is too strong at this point in time. The health regeneration it can achieve is higher than the damage output of most damage-spec classes that I have. It doesn’t even require a single thought other than selecting the correct abilities and traits. That is unbalanced, and ridiculous. It’s a lot like a Guardian to be honest, but boon stripping is a viable tactic against those. I see none against Warriors as they are right now.

The warrior doesn’t need an overall nerf.There are just a couple changes that could solve a lot of stress. For one, the cool down on the mace burst skill should be a bit longer or the stun shorter same with hammer, the 50% extra damage with stun trait should be completely changed. This one trait allows wars to bunker in and still hit high numbers as long as there is a stunned person; on top of the current base damage they have (which is high). If people remember they nerfed ele’s bunker setup damage with bountiful power for this same reason. And last but not least the main thing is the heal signet. There is no reason to allow a warrior without even a dose of healing power to passively heal for 400 a second. I personally unbind my “6” key on my heal so that i don’t accidentally use it because that passive heal can keep me alive more in any situation than the actual active use.
On a side note, for the WvW people, I do recall Anet making a claim that no class should be able to “outrun” thieves, this led to the Ele’s rtl being nerfed into the ground from its original 15 sec cool down. Currently the warrior has the most mobility and of course they have traits that decrease any sort of cc to allow them to stay mobile. They can jump into a fight and if it doesn’t go in their favor, they can leave it just as fast and be across the map.
All this reminds me of the guard hammer setup many moons ago that could tank 4 on the point and still sometimes take out a squishy player or the D/d bunker ele days. We all understand that a couple months ago the warrior was one of if not the worst class in pvp, we begged for changes to make it better but what we got was a monster that outshines everything else.
Because of this repeating trend, my main concern is towards Anet’s current balance team. I don’t know who hired them all but all they have done in the past is make poor decisions and they have an extremely uncanny knack to not exactly fix anything but are somehow always able to ruin something currently usable or make things worse than they already are. I understand that the company may not have the largest budget to afford a good development team on all accords but there needs to be at least a concerted effort put in.

Warriors out running thieves. Heh what kinds of drugs are you on sounds interesting.

SaintSnow.6593:

the 50% extra damage with stun trait should be completely changed.

Wtf?

Scoobaniec.9561:

SaintSnow.6593:

the 50% extra damage with stun trait should be completely changed.

Wtf?

What do you mean “wtf”? Unsuspecting Foe #4 in the adept trait line is pretty much what makes the hammer seem op. If this effect never existed then the weapon would be just normal cc. Honestly the best way to deal with this would to move it farther up to master or maybe even grandmaster.
And yes I do understand I put 50% damage instead of
Crit chance. Still does not change the fact that this trait is an issue.

IFreedom.4637:

Warriors out running thieves. Heh what kinds of drugs are you on sounds interesting.

I outrun anything with my warrior in wvw quite easily thanks. Sword 2 and greatsword 3,5 work nicely. Bull rush if you want to add more and a 48sec cd on rage signet (using signet mastery another adept trait) gives near perma swiftness. But hey we have warrior sprint trait (also in the adept line) for that constant 25% while thieves have to use a signet utility. Think cc could stop us? Nope we have mobile strikes and dogged march (oh my another adept trait as well) to counter all that no problem. Any incoming damage could be blocked/immune/etc so really there’s nothing stopping us. Oh and of course this is all without melandru runes or poultry soup to even further lower the possible cc’s put on us.

Oh I almost forgot our warhorn offhand! How could I? With this bad boy we will have perma swiftness along with rage signet and a mass cleanse to that nasty chill, cripple and immobilize.

Deathspike.1870:

The Warrior is too strong at this point in time. The health regeneration it can achieve is higher than the damage output of most damage-spec classes that I have. It.

So your classes deal < ~700 dmg per autoattack when the warrior sits at full adrenalin for the whole fight? Im glad that thief got no burst to outdamage that and no stealth to reangage at will.

SaintSnow.6593:

Scoobaniec.9561:

SaintSnow.6593:

the 50% extra damage with stun trait should be completely changed.

Wtf?

What do you mean “wtf”? Unsuspecting Foe #4 in the adept trait line is pretty much what makes the hammer seem op. If this effect never existed then the weapon would be just normal cc. Honestly the best way to deal with this would to move it farther up to master or maybe even grandmaster.
And yes I do understand I put 50% damage instead of
Crit chance. Still does not change the fact that this trait is an issue.

+50% damage and +50% crit chance is a completely different thing..

Also the hammer alone has 2seconds of stun at maxed adrenaline, means olny 2 hits will take advantage of unsuspecting foe.

Majority of people calling out to nerf warriors have no clue what are they talking about.
No clue, no data to support their clames.
Reason: they don’t have warr’s at 80 and geared, so they can’t jump on the fotm train – and that makes them angry – anger makes them feel bad about themself – so only logical solution – NERF NERF everything so I can pewpew and kill everyone and be the best.

No nerfs to warrior – BUFF other classes. No idea what to do with crybabys – get a life.

NERF Thief…actually delete thief from game like this fella wants to get rid of the hammer – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/A-call-to-remove-Hammer-from-Warrior

Yeah that sounds totally dumb – but still people call for it.

In the words of my favourite author – L2P.

risenlord.2035:

No nerf needed. Up until a couple a months ago warriors were a joke to play. They got balanced and all of a sudden people who had been fighting this “weakest” class in the game were now losing battles to them. Warriors were always decent in wvw for condi cleanse and cc but in pvp they were a joke. Now that warriors have a decent meta people need to learn to fight warriors. Want to know how to beat a cc warrior? conditions

So true.

No. Warriors do not need a nerf just because they are now popular.
The whole concept that the popular class has to be nerfed into the ground is wrong.

Warriors are – and always have been a sort of jack of all trades master of none. This is still true today. At almost EVERY specific task other classes do better.
There are situations in which warriors outperform other classes – and if players feel their class is too weak or under balanced they should ask for buffs for their class in a constructive way.

Nerfing warrior won’t get us anywhere – we’ve already been there – think Warriors before the sPVP patch that made warrior a viable choice.

Just because a class is strong doesn’t mean that it needs to be ruined and sacrificed on the altar of other people’s hate.
Just buff up other, weaker classes – if that is the case ( i don’t play much ranger/engi etc) and that should do it.

Also keep in mind that warriors are popular also because they are relatively simple to play ( as opposed to engi or ele where you have to dance around your keyboard like a spider on drugs).

Warriors have been finely tuned and polished to a mirror shine but at the cost of some classes like Rangers. It seems Anet fell in love with one class but forgot there are others that need just as much attention. If anything underperforming classes need a lot of work and buffing to be on par with the Warrior.

Harper.4173:

risenlord.2035:

No nerf needed. Up until a couple a months ago warriors were a joke to play. They got balanced and all of a sudden people who had been fighting this “weakest” class in the game were now losing battles to them. Warriors were always decent in wvw for condi cleanse and cc but in pvp they were a joke. Now that warriors have a decent meta people need to learn to fight warriors. Want to know how to beat a cc warrior? conditions

So true.

No. Warriors do not need a nerf just because they are now popular.
The whole concept that the popular class has to be nerfed into the ground is wrong.

Warriors are – and always have been a sort of jack of all trades master of none. This is still true today. At almost EVERY specific task other classes do better.
There are situations in which warriors outperform other classes – and if players feel their class is too weak or under balanced they should ask for buffs for their class in a constructive way.

Nerfing warrior won’t get us anywhere – we’ve already been there – think Warriors before the sPVP patch that made warrior a viable choice.

Just because a class is strong doesn’t mean that it needs to be ruined and sacrificed on the altar of other people’s hate.
Just buff up other, weaker classes – if that is the case ( i don’t play much ranger/engi etc) and that should do it.

Also keep in mind that warriors are popular also because they are relatively simple to play ( as opposed to engi or ele where you have to dance around your keyboard like a spider on drugs).

Let’s not forget that they were also probably the most popular class in the game even when they were considered horrible at sPvP and alright at WvW. They are popular for many reasons. Straightforward design, best looking armor type, well known archetype that many people are accustomed to. A classes popularity is not directly related to how strong they are. Sure, warriors might have some extra players who hopped on thinking they would faceroll /laugh but as I have already said, they were already the most popular class in the game pre buffs.

I’m not saying the warrior should exactly be “nerfed”, but the fact that a lot of its strongest traits are easily picked up in the adept trait line is a bit of an issue. If traits were moved around and the healing signet was toned down a bit then yes warriors would be fine. Anet’s main concern should be with the rest of the classes in this game. Many are underpowered after receiving many critical nerfs in the past. I know they said they would keep adding new skills and traits in the future, but they need to completely rework the ones they already have beforehand. The reason why powerful builds and “flavors of the month” arise is because of the poor synergy between many of the current traits which allow for only a select few to be used. Some classes are in a better state than others but there still is much work to be done.
Calling for an all out nerf on a class due to its popularity from powerful setups leads to breaking the class. Using the elementalist as an example, the ever popular d/d bunker 3 cantrip build became flavor of the month back in late October/early November. This was a godlike class with more cleansing and healing, while maintaining cc and stunbreaks than the law allowed. People begged for changes because the pve, wvw and pvp communites were flooded with eles. Anet responded and now look at the elementalist’s current position, its broken. There really isn’t anything an ele can particularly do that any class couldn’t do better. They are completely not used in tpvp and dwindling in the wvw seen unless your running staff for zergs. Granted they are still good in pve but that’s easy stuff. Calling for nerfs on a class can be detrimental to the class as a whole.

No. things like conditions and what could be fixed but the class itself doesn’t really need changes

Amlin.6041:

Warriors have been finely tuned and polished to a mirror shine but at the cost of some classes like Rangers. It seems Anet fell in love with one class but forgot there are others that need just as much attention. If anything underperforming classes need a lot of work and buffing to be on par with the Warrior.

This is very true and I agree- other classes need some work done.

As far as how popularity goes – Ashanor.5319 get it right.
I feel that the straight forward nature of the warrior is its best ally when when discussing popularity. It is in contrast to many classes – simple.

You don’t have to adjust to gimmicky attunements, odd virtues or initiative or whatnot. Your mechanic is another hit. That’s it. Full adren – pop something over the head harder.
People like simple – and a lot of people appreciate a simple yet fun and strong class.

Other classes outshine warriors in all aspects – when going for specialized play – but the level of mastery one has to have over that class to do it is quite high. It’s their reward for learning to play a more difficult class – but that’s an ok thing.

There’s been a lot of discussion on the forums about class balance and how warriors stand in comparison to other classes.
I do hope Anet realizes that the proper way to go about it is to buff other classes that might be lacking instead of nerfing warrior into the ground – because a few people on the forum are going crazy over it.

When warrior wasn’t strong in sPVP nobody from other sections of the forums or who played other classes ever came saying " buff warriors – they are a free kill " but now that things have changed they’re all over the " nerf war into the ground please i can’t handle them anymore" .

Harper.4173:

Amlin.6041:

If anything underperforming classes need a lot of work and buffing to be on par with the Warrior.

This is very true and I agree- other classes need some work done..

I also agree with this. I do think that Healing Signet could be shaved on the amount it feels for also, just a little bit.

Deathspike.1870:

The Warrior is too strong at this point in time. The health regeneration it can achieve is higher than the damage output of most damage-spec classes that I have. It doesn’t even require a single thought other than selecting the correct abilities and traits. That is unbalanced, and ridiculous. It’s a lot like a Guardian to be honest, but boon stripping is a viable tactic against those. I see none against Warriors as they are right now.

There is no way a full bunker warrior can out heal a full dps thief. With blocks and invulnerable traits survivability will go up but the warrior is going to do 0 damage and eventually die.

risenlord.2035:

Deathspike.1870:

The Warrior is too strong at this point in time. The health regeneration it can achieve is higher than the damage output of most damage-spec classes that I have. It doesn’t even require a single thought other than selecting the correct abilities and traits. That is unbalanced, and ridiculous. It’s a lot like a Guardian to be honest, but boon stripping is a viable tactic against those. I see none against Warriors as they are right now.

There is no way a full bunker warrior can out heal a full dps thief. With blocks and invulnerable traits survivability will go up but the warrior is going to do 0 damage and eventually die.

The only way for a DPS thief to out HPS a warrior is to equip Signet of Malice and spam pistol whip/death blossom or unload with 2 or more enemies close by. Those attacks save Unload are weaker than the auto attack.

Secondly, a full DPS thief has 10k which is 58% of the Health pool a full DPS warrior has. So it wouldn’t matter much anyway because the thief can only heal back so much before they run out of initiative while the warrior keeps his HPS. In fact, you don’t even need bunker to get that kind of HPS.

Yes they need nerf. Adrenal health + healing signet + greatsword mobility + highest armor in game + highest hp in game + dogged march/melandru-runes/lemangrass soup + best kiting weap in game (bow, especially skill 5) + cleansing Ire (all in one build) = OP. This combo has no downsides. Poison? cleansing ire. Kiting? nope, dogged march combo nulifies that. And a warrior runes forward to foe, while ranged enemies, move backwards to still hit enemy while facing him. This makes the warrior inherently faster, and with no kiting options (dogged march immunity), that makes the warrior impossible to control. Add on that healing signet wich is op as it heals more then any heal skill in game yet cannot be interrupted, added on that by dogged march regen, adrenal health regen? crazy op. Crazy easy play mode. You you can’t see this, then you gotta open your eyes.

This build has no downsides. No other profession can get a build as allround as this, with so much immunities.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Yes they need nerf. Adrenal health + healing signet + greatsword mobility + highest armor in game + highest hp in game + dogged march/melandru-runes/lemangrass soup + best kiting weap in game (bow, especially skill 5) + cleansing Ire (all in one build) = OP. This combo has no downsides. Poison? cleansing ire. Kiting? nope, dogged march combo nulifies that. And a warrior runes forward to foe, while ranged enemies, move backwards to still hit enemy while facing him. This makes the warrior inherently faster, and with no kiting options (dogged march immunity), that makes the warrior impossible to control. Add on that healing signet wich is op as it heals more then any heal skill in game yet cannot be interrupted, added on that by dogged march regen, adrenal health regen? crazy op. Crazy easy play mode. You you can’t see this, then you gotta open your eyes.

This build has no downsides. No other profession can get a build as allround as this, with so much immunities.

Told a guy that doesnt know what hes speaking about..

-Its not like other classes can’t use melandru+lemongrass (in case of engi and ele also their version of dogger march)

-Its not like we have to use adrenaline to cleanse conditions – making adrenal health pointless, we had a discussion about it few month ago

-Its not like other classes have high time up vigor, protection, stealth, block, blind, weakness, clones and gods know what else while warrior don’t, thus making up for that by soaking dmg so we actually need a better healing options

-Its not like pin down has 25cd..

-Its not like gs is a crap weapon for pvp and is used mostly as a mobility tool in wvw

-Its not like that toughness doesnt mean much

-Its not like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g when its comes to ur eyes.

Again you just listed SINGLE FEATUTES other profs can do, compared to warrior complete list.

Dogged march equivalent of engi requires more trait sacrafice on engie then on warrior. On top of it they have lower armor/hp then warrior. If they want to get close (they never can match it totally) to warrior healing they again have to sacrafice traits/utility slots to get there. That’s the prob. Warrior makes the LEAST sacrafices in the game to achieve a build that can do all the things you listed above. They can retain full power even crit rate/crit damage some pieces, on top of all the listed advantage. Other profs don’t get this wild card.

Using melandru runes on another prof? Good joke i guess. Mesmer/ranger almost mandatory need traveler/speed runes to keep up with zerg (or sacrafice skill slot, and thus stunbreaker viability wich they absolutelly need against warrior stunlocks).

This is called opportunity cost. Wich warrior doesn’t have.

A warrior without traits is as good as other profs with 40-70 traits and rune effect included. There lies the problem.

But you don’t have to believe me or agree with me.

I doubt people like you though have so much experience as me in pvp, wvw and pve on all these professions

Mesmer 670 hours
Necro 620 hours
Warrior 527
Ranger 490
Engineer 430
ele 500
Guardian 400 hours.
Thief 300

Can you say the same? Many things i say now, i wouldnt have said, if i didnt learn new small (but important things, after tons of gameplay on all of them).

The prob with most counterposts against ‘nerf warriors posts’ is if you click on their name, and check post history, all those people have ties with warrior (probably main one).

I don’t, and consider myself more independant in my opinion then you guys.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Using melandru runes on another prof? Good joke i guess. Mesmer/ranger almost mandatory need traveler/speed runes to keep up with zerg (or sacrafice skill slot, and thus stunbreaker viability wich they absolutelly need against warrior stunlocks).

Doesn´t a zerg always has enough aoe-swiftness?

Based on the reasons Thief, and at one point Rangers were nerfed, I would say definitely.

nicknamenick.2437:

No,

Because i had a endless 1vs1 battle against guardians :-)
Guardians also can heal very well (its there thing) but the damage is very high also.

Mesmers are still masters in 1vs1
Necro’s can still wipe a group easy
Guardians are still better bunkers
So yes warriors are good also, but i really don’t see why we need a nerf.
Why cant warriors be in the top classes?
Maby buff the rangers more and Ele’s… start with that and see what happens.

This is hyperbole to the extreme. Necro’s “can wipe a group easy”?? What types of group are you running with? Warrior’s should be nerfed based on the same reasons thief and rangers were.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Again you just listed SINGLE FEATUTES other profs can do, compared to warrior complete list.

Dogged march equivalent of engi requires more trait sacrafice on engie then on warrior. On top of it they have lower armor/hp then warrior. If they want to get close (they never can match it totally) to warrior healing they again have to sacrafice traits/utility slots to get there. That’s the prob. Warrior makes the LEAST sacrafices in the game to achieve a build that can do all the things you listed above. They can retain full power even crit rate/crit damage some pieces, on top of all the listed advantage. Other profs don’t get this wild card.

Using melandru runes on another prof? Good joke i guess. Mesmer/ranger almost mandatory need traveler/speed runes to keep up with zerg (or sacrafice skill slot, and thus stunbreaker viability wich they absolutelly need against warrior stunlocks).

This is called opportunity cost. Wich warrior doesn’t have.

A warrior without traits is as good as other profs with 40-70 traits and rune effect included. There lies the problem.

But you don’t have to believe me or agree with me.

I doubt people like you though have so much experience as me in pvp, wvw and pve on all these professions

Mesmer 670 hours
Necro 620 hours
Warrior 527
Ranger 490
Engineer 430
ele 500
Guardian 400 hours.
Thief 300

Can you say the same? Many things i say now, i wouldnt have said, if i didnt learn new small (but important things, after tons of gameplay on all of them).

The prob with most counterposts against ‘nerf warriors posts’ is if you click on their name, and check post history, all those people have ties with warrior (probably main one).

I don’t, and consider myself more independant in my opinion then you guys.

1. So does 50% endurance in GM engi traits compared to minor 5 in ranger. Do u know that u can’t compare single traits alone? And how much exacly engi has lower hp and armor? 3k hp and around 100 def (i dont rebember base for medium) makes that high difference?

2. Maybe u dindt noticed but as u listened we have to slot defensive utilities like berserker stance, slot defensive runes like melandru and so on. If u resufe to use it thats ur problem. We don’t have -98% out of nowhere. I want to run kick, bolas and stomp with dps runes and 30/25/0/0/15 but for some reason i can’t. Why? Go figure. We do tradeoff like everyone else.

3. Rangers actually uses signet for +25% movement speed.. Idk wut u talking about. As for zerk they have perma switfness, so again im not sure wtf u talking about

4. “A warrior without traits is as good as other profs with 40-70 traits and rune effect included. There lies the problem.” I loled. Try to run hammer build without traits, lets see where its will take ya

5. Hours means nothing,ur right i don’t have 300+ hours on different professions than war, but actually when its comes to warrior im on 3k hours. I been with this class for good and bad since launch and i will still be even if we get nerfed into ground..Can u say the same?

But anyway think for a while, why wars equip gs in the first place – its bc its ur mobility tool or bc other weps lack mobility? Its not like we have to trade a weapon slot just to get mobility..oh wait. We have 60/60/60/60/60 with 19 wep combos at once..

How is bringing a class in line with other classes an op buff?

Warrior is balanced. Working as intended.

How do you kill a warrior? Bait them to blow their CDs and then focus spike them. Same way to kill EVERY other class.

risenlord.2035:

There is no way a full bunker warrior can out heal a full dps thief. With blocks and invulnerable traits survivability will go up but the warrior is going to do 0 damage and eventually die.

A decently played warrior using a hammer and sword/board can without too much effort. After spending a ridiculous amount of time attempting to come up with a counter to the crowd control and health regeneration on both my thief and ranger, I gave up and equipped my warrior with berserker/hoelbrak using a mostly defense/discipline trait line. Having very little experience playing one, it was already easy to deal with anything except similar build warriors, cleric guardians and condition necromancers. I could survive easily against glass thieves, and I’ll keep running this character until it gets nerfed. It’s that unbalanced (one more to the Warrior population for a while, and up the number goes).

What you, Deathspike, are failing at hard here is that builds in pvp are made to counter others, hence why working as a team here is hard to suggest an entire class needs a nerf or is op as your post suggests.
Just because the one (terrible mind you) build you suggested lets you handle decently against half of the game, the other half, and people who are really good at one class over being kind of good at every class like I’m assuming you are based on what I am reading here, will rock your face in.

You in a nutshell just kind of pointed out indirectly why people don’t like the warrior. It lets someone who is ok at the game do ok in the game, instead of having to work hard to excel at it. You should look more into that over you thinking this class is really that godsent.

I think you misunderstand the intentions I tried to convey, Scryed.9423. I, as a complete newbie with no investment of time to build experience and skill in playing a warrior, can pick up a warrior and kick down experienced players of any class. The only classes that I have some trouble with are other warriors that have a similar build (which depends on whom lands attacks first), guardians (where each player gets bored and walks away from the fight) and necromancers (because I have to distance myself when they do their blind aura, and come back after ~30 seconds to take the kill).

I do believe that I am experienced in the profession I like most, which is the Thief, and yes it is frowned upon that ‘other professions come and cry when they lose’. Hell, my own favorite profession has been on the receiving end of that a million times over. What bothers me is the fact that all the time and skill an experienced player has in their own profession is absolutely useless when confronted with a hammer warrior of low/decent skill — imagine what happens if the player using it is good.

So, due to the lack of alternatives of dealing with a situation where these players with these builds are becoming the main stream build for both sPVP on a competitive level and for both roaming and siege warfare in WvW, I switched to the thing that owned me too. That is wrong, that is ridiculous, but it works, and I see a lot of people taking this rout. If this situation presses on, we’ll end up with Warrior Wars instead of Guild Wars, and that is what I want to convey here. Balance is where you think after a loss, “Huh, I did <insert X here> wrong or perhaps I could have tried <insert Y here>”, instead of “… I’ll grab a Warrior too.”

No I get what you are trying to say and I was in a nice way pointing out how wrong you were. Your reply here even lacks content to base anything on what you are trying to reference either, it sounds like you are dueling with some friends honestly. You beat down everyone? Honestly dude? Get out. I know people don’t like the idea of this profession actually having multiple alternatives instead of just one build, but your one build you referenced earlier can’t compete with ‘killing everyone but 3 builds’. However unlike you, I have been playing this class, and only this class since day 1 and Im calling bullkitten.

Like most of the trendy nerf warrior threads here, put up some factual information, post some specifics on where/what you are owning because I highly doubt what you are saying to be true.

Does it, absolutely not. Anet tries to balance around what is being used. Obviously, there must have been a decline in Warrior usage for them to make changes. I unapologetically run my Healing Signet Hammer Warrior since it’s my original character. One that’s been shelved for quite some time from WvW because of suboptimal performance. Finally, I get to run it again!

For sPvP, this isn’t the best time to judge it. A lot of us are bored waiting for the WvW Queue’s and simply going into sPvP to have something to do.

Deathspike.1870:

risenlord.2035:

There is no way a full bunker warrior can out heal a full dps thief. With blocks and invulnerable traits survivability will go up but the warrior is going to do 0 damage and eventually die.

A decently played warrior using a hammer and sword/board can without too much effort. After spending a ridiculous amount of time attempting to come up with a counter to the crowd control and health regeneration on both my thief and ranger, I gave up and equipped my warrior with berserker/hoelbrak using a mostly defense/discipline trait line. Having very little experience playing one, it was already easy to deal with anything except similar build warriors, cleric guardians and condition necromancers. I could survive easily against glass thieves, and I’ll keep running this character until it gets nerfed. It’s that unbalanced (one more to the Warrior population for a while, and up the number goes).

The original statement was about a warrior being able to out heal a dps class. The only way for this to happen is if the warrior is full bunker. 300 Defense full clerics with
banner or shout heals and healing runes.

Deathspike.1870:

I think you misunderstand the intentions I tried to convey, Scryed.9423. I, as a complete newbie with no investment of time to build experience and skill in playing a warrior, can pick up a warrior and kick down experienced players of any class. The only classes that I have some trouble with are other warriors that have a similar build (which depends on whom lands attacks first), guardians (where each player gets bored and walks away from the fight) and necromancers (because I have to distance myself when they do their blind aura, and come back after ~30 seconds to take the kill).

I do believe that I am experienced in the profession I like most, which is the Thief, and yes it is frowned upon that ‘other professions come and cry when they lose’. Hell, my own favorite profession has been on the receiving end of that a million times over. What bothers me is the fact that all the time and skill an experienced player has in their own profession is absolutely useless when confronted with a hammer warrior of low/decent skill — imagine what happens if the player using it is good.

So, due to the lack of alternatives of dealing with a situation where these players with these builds are becoming the main stream build for both sPVP on a competitive level and for both roaming and siege warfare in WvW, I switched to the thing that owned me too. That is wrong, that is ridiculous, but it works, and I see a lot of people taking this rout. If this situation presses on, we’ll end up with Warrior Wars instead of Guild Wars, and that is what I want to convey here. Balance is where you think after a loss, “Huh, I did <insert X here> wrong or perhaps I could have tried <insert Y here>”, instead of “… I’ll grab a Warrior too.”

There are 1 to 3 warriors in any given spvp match. This everyone is playing warriors nonsense is just not true. Plenty of guards kill warriors. Happens all the time

risenlord.2035:

Deathspike.1870:

risenlord.2035:

There is no way a full bunker warrior can out heal a full dps thief. With blocks and invulnerable traits survivability will go up but the warrior is going to do 0 damage and eventually die.

A decently played warrior using a hammer and sword/board can without too much effort. After spending a ridiculous amount of time attempting to come up with a counter to the crowd control and health regeneration on both my thief and ranger, I gave up and equipped my warrior with berserker/hoelbrak using a mostly defense/discipline trait line. Having very little experience playing one, it was already easy to deal with anything except similar build warriors, cleric guardians and condition necromancers. I could survive easily against glass thieves, and I’ll keep running this character until it gets nerfed. It’s that unbalanced (one more to the Warrior population for a while, and up the number goes).

The original statement was about a warrior being able to out heal a dps class. The only way for this to happen is if the warrior is full bunker. 300 Defense full clerics with
banner or shout heals and healing runes.

At its best a warrior can heal about 1000 per second and any full zerker class worth it’s salt can do much more than that

I feel like there wouldn’t be nearly as much complaining if it weren’t so popular. But that’s how these things go anyway, something doesn’t necessarily have to change but once it becomes popular to do or something else that was popular to complain about/use disappears, all attention is focused on the new thing.

Step into any match of like 5-10 people at random and chances are there is a warrior in there and chances are he is using heal signet and chances are he has at least one stun based weapon on swap(mace or hammer) and so on. The class is getting pigeonholed because you could build a warrior to be your way and be meh, or you could just do what everyone else is doing and go from there. This in turn aggravates the people fighting them who are sick of fighting the same playstyle everytime so they quit their class and roll a mace/hammer healing signet warrior and only add to the flames.

There are people that play warrior because they like the class and there are people who play it because they like winning with something that just killed them or that annoyed them so much. Combined it makes for quite a decent amount of warriors running about of varying skill levels and a large portion of them using similar weapons/builds and so the cycle continues.

I’m really starting to lose interest though. Nerf them or not, don’t really care anymore. Just do something to stop all the annoying jibber jabber. When I come across a regen build or a bunker of any class I usually either ask for help from team just to be safe, or just leave them alone, its not like most bunkers can catch up to you if you really don’t want to be caught.

Heta.8629:

Baclavaman.9054:

I would say no because it is rather fine as it is BUT buff the other classes.

Warrior is the class that does the best dps, has the heavy armor, the most hp ( on part with engy and necro) and has a ridiculous passive healing mechanic that cost 15 traits points and healing skill.

I like Warrior a lot so dont ge me wrong here, but after some maths and a sad face later i realised how a warrior can self heal himself and support a party so much better than a guardian i almost regret having a guardian in the first place, i hate doing maths, i m always dissapointed by the results…

Warrior

healing signet, 392 heal (0.5), self, passive healing + active healing, low cooldown
adrenal health 360 (0.15) over 3 seconds or 120 second, scales with adrenaline, passive healing, self
vigorous shouts 1480 (0.9), active AoE healing, low cooldown
regeneration from banners 130 (0.125), passive healing, AoE

Guardian

virtue of resolve 84(0.06), self but can become AoE
monks focus ( healing meditations) 1960 (0.4), self, active healing
altruistic healing 69 (0.01), healing is self but boons are AoE
writ of merciful ( healing symbols) 107(0.075), AoE, on every third attack ( hammer) or active skill
selfless daring 129(1.0) AoE on dodge

Warrior scales better with healing power than guardian ( exception of selfless daring), most of them are passive healing compared to guardian skills while having more hp and stopping power. This is just an example between the 2 but i did also some calculations on conditions, burst damage and so on.

Warriors are by far the best class in the game currently, nerfing them wouldnt be the solution be a buff for the other classes would be a welcomed addition: same base stats and hp for every single class so that way gears and traits will be the key component that makes you a hard hitter or a more resilient character. Heavy armor class would remains he same but the medium and light would regenerate dodge energy faster, medium 25% and light 50% but this is an example so dont burn me.

This is just a constatation, all those values mentionned above are from the wiki and the rest are my opinions. There is no trinity in this game wich is an awesome concept but the fact some classes do have more hp that others while naked do suggest some unbalance.

For the notes i am a PVE player, mostly tanky support when it come to heavy armor ( i like being the last one standing). All i said dont support the PvP experience since i dont really participate in it. My full cleric guardian tanks less than my knight dps warrior spec

Coefficient on healing signet is wrong. Can’t have healing shouts and regen banners. Would need to spend at least 45 trait points for all that healing. More research needs done before you post

^ This. How can you make the comparison of Guardians versus Warriors and give Warriors 2 Grandmaster Traits from the same trait line and say you have any knowledge of the Warrior class?

You wasted a lot of time with incorrect math in a theoretical situation that can’t happen in game.

DeWolfe.2174:

Does it, absolutely not. Anet tries to balance around what is being used. Obviously, there must have been a decline in Warrior usage for them to make changes. I unapologetically run my Healing Signet Hammer Warrior since it’s my original character. One that’s been shelved for quite some time from WvW because of suboptimal performance. Finally, I get to run it again!

For sPvP, this isn’t the best time to judge it. A lot of us are bored waiting for the WvW Queue’s and simply going into sPvP to have something to do.

ANet is 6-7 months behind the valid complaints/valid feedback suggestions of this board. I talked about the issues with Warriors back in March/April of 2013 (one/two months after the lifesteal crit food nerf/condition counter meta (for the sake of melee) that affected the Warrior most) and what needed to be addressed immediately. I then predicted that Warriors would return to sensible playable levels in September 2013…

EDIT: ‘Sensible’ playing levels is relative since who knew ANet devs didn’t understand how much Healing Signet base healing should give.

Warriors then received a huge nerf in May 2013 (swapping major Adrenaline damage talents to Grandmaster amongst other tweaks) before ANet realized how badly they broke Warriors in general. It took until basically August (with a couple of minor tweaks to mostly garbage talents in between) before Warriors started seeing a return to the fold. Warriors have now seen the light of god-like in September and they are where they are now in October.

I would expect another 2 months (just like the condition meta issue) of Warrior ‘god-like’ status (all relative because well, there is always a better class in general that continues to be ignored by so so many people even though it is repeatedly mentioned in this very thread).

By magically looking into my crystal ball, Warriors will be nerfed (probably post-season 1 WvW) +/- three weeks.

Prepare for the return of the Mesmer… maybe some added Ele/Engin tweaks coming too … sorry Rangers, you all are the red-headed stepchild since pet AI is still well … AI.

Artaz.3819:

DeWolfe.2174:

Does it, absolutely not. Anet tries to balance around what is being used. Obviously, there must have been a decline in Warrior usage for them to make changes. I unapologetically run my Healing Signet Hammer Warrior since it’s my original character. One that’s been shelved for quite some time from WvW because of suboptimal performance. Finally, I get to run it again!

For sPvP, this isn’t the best time to judge it. A lot of us are bored waiting for the WvW Queue’s and simply going into sPvP to have something to do.

ANet is 6-7 months behind the valid complaints/valid feedback suggestions of this board. I talked about the issues with Warriors back in March/April of 2013 (one/two months after the lifesteal crit food nerf/condition counter meta (for the sake of melee) that affected the Warrior most) and what needed to be addressed immediately. I then predicted that Warriors would return to sensible playable levels in September 2013…

EDIT: ‘Sensible’ playing levels is relative since who knew ANet devs didn’t understand how much Healing Signet base healing should give.

Warriors then received a huge nerf in May 2013 (swapping major Adrenaline damage talents to Grandmaster amongst other tweaks) before ANet realized how badly they broke Warriors in general. It took until basically August (with a couple of minor tweaks to mostly garbage talents in between) before Warriors started seeing a return to the fold. Warriors have now seen the light of god-like in September and they are where they are now in October.

I would expect another 2 months (just like the condition meta issue) of Warrior ‘god-like’ status (all relative because well, there is always a better class in general that continues to be ignored by so so many people even though it is repeatedly mentioned in this very thread).

By magically looking into my crystal ball, Warriors will be nerfed (probably post-season 1 WvW) +/- three weeks.

Prepare for the return of the Mesmer… maybe some added Ele/Engin tweaks coming too … sorry Rangers, you all are the red-headed stepchild since pet AI is still well … AI.

They not gonna nerf Warriors any time soon because it would stop making them the best PvE class

The hardest thing for me to understand is not that they’ve brought the Warrior up to other classes in the past months, but that they nerfed the Elementalist into the dust and refuse to do any changes to Elementalists that are meaningful.

It’s also quite hilarious to me that Ride the Lightning was nerfed because it made Eles “too mobile” and then here we have Warriors with almost 2x the mobility, 2x the HP everything else with greatsword Rush, Whirlwind, and sword leap + utility bull charge.

I don’t think people are upset that the Warrior is now more playable in PvP and such, but it’s upsetting the Anet seems to have the Warrior as their favorite right now and just continually turn it into more of a powerhouse while ignoring the rest.

p.s. FYI i have an 80 ele, and 80 warrior. So i’m not that biased

avilo.1942:

The hardest thing for me to understand is not that they’ve brought the Warrior up to other classes in the past months, but that they nerfed the Elementalist into the dust and refuse to do any changes to Elementalists that are meaningful.

It’s also quite hilarious to me that Ride the Lightning was nerfed because it made Eles “too mobile” and then here we have Warriors with almost 2x the mobility, 2x the HP everything else with greatsword Rush, Whirlwind, and sword leap + utility bull charge.

I don’t think people are upset that the Warrior is now more playable in PvP and such, but it’s upsetting the Anet seems to have the Warrior as their favorite right now and just continually turn it into more of a powerhouse while ignoring the rest.

p.s. FYI i have an 80 ele, and 80 warrior. So i’m not that biased

You compare one ele skill to two warrior weapons and a utility skill. More accurately would be comparing the sword 2 with ride the lightning because they are both one skill on a one handed weapon. Overall health has nothing to do with mobility

avilo.1942:

The hardest thing for me to understand is not that they’ve brought the Warrior up to other classes in the past months, but that they nerfed the Elementalist into the dust and refuse to do any changes to Elementalists that are meaningful.

It’s also quite hilarious to me that Ride the Lightning was nerfed because it made Eles “too mobile” and then here we have Warriors with almost 2x the mobility, 2x the HP everything else with greatsword Rush, Whirlwind, and sword leap + utility bull charge.

I don’t think people are upset that the Warrior is now more playable in PvP and such, but it’s upsetting the Anet seems to have the Warrior as their favorite right now and just continually turn it into more of a powerhouse while ignoring the rest.

p.s. FYI i have an 80 ele, and 80 warrior. So i’m not that biased

yeah as a wvw mesmer same thing. anet nerfed all our wvw builds to the ground. the confusion and bb nerf was extrem. making an entire build non viable. then they nerfed temporal curtain and alot of other stuff we needed in wvw. now in spvp we are still decent, but with all the nerfs, we lost a lot of viability in wvw(clones and phantasms arent that good in a zerg, so 90 percent of the spvp builds are useless in wvw).
now if anet wouldnt have overrreacted wit our glamour builds, i think we mesmers would still have something to bring to wvw (other than veil).
every wvw build atm feels like we are trying to improvise around all the stupid nerfs and still do dmg in a zerg and trying to be a threat like a warrior.i mean it used to be that the warriors actually had to be careful when facing a mesmer heavy group. but now its just them facerolling their keyboard without thinking.
as a light armor we are not having aoe anymore due to the massive glam nerf.
meanwhile anet buffed necros to be an amazing light armor class and warriors turned into tough cc beasts.
why didnt anet make those buffs before and then shaved confusion glamour builds instead of destroying everything we had and turning us into utilitybots?

i think thats what makes a lot of other classes angry. anet has given mesmers nothing in return after the glam nerf while warriors and necros kept receiving buffs. so yeah of course we are complaining about the op ness of a warrior. eles went through similar nerfs(u barely see d/d eles anymore) their mobility got nerfed very hard whereas warriors are harder to catch now. etc. for the classes that have seen the nerfbat manytimes, yes we feel left out. last patch we got a mantra buff…. a kitten mantra, that noone ever used before. its a stupid mechanic in a cc heavy meta! no buff to glamours no cooldown reductions where we need it.

nicknamenick.2437:

No,

Because i had a endless 1vs1 battle against guardians :-)
Guardians also can heal very well (its there thing) but the damage is very high also.

Mesmers are still masters in 1vs1
Necro’s can still wipe a group easy
Guardians are still better bunkers
So yes warriors are good also, but i really don’t see why we need a nerf.
Why cant warriors be in the top classes?
Maby buff the rangers more and Ele’s… start with that and see what happens.

They tried buffing rangers, end result: crying on the forums led to nerf of BM and Spirits. yawn. Honestly, if rangers do get buffed again, I won’t even be happy because I know within 2 hours of that buff there will be people crying on the forums demanding us nerfed a-g-a-i-n like it’s been since this game came out.

Talking for pve only: I realy get sick of the damage warriors do, every dungeon in the lfg tool: zerk wa only… This class needs a nerf in pve becaus it’s just impossible to get close to it in damage, why is it that this class has the right to do more damage than most others? How much longer are other classes going to be discriminated? Most people here are against a nerf because they use it for speed clears. It just makes me so furious when i see those wa only groups and even more when arenanet refuses to nerf them… Balance, it’s a joke here.

Sullydog.9206:

Based on the reasons Thief, and at one point Rangers were nerfed, I would say definitely.

So let’s nerf all classes instead of buffing less competitive ones to a decent level. Sounds like a plan.