Guild Wars 2

Is this true? I always thought warriors were higher in dps and Eles are higher than warriors. How are guardians higher?

DPS guardians have always had good dps its just they were shuned, as people expect guardians to support the group and kicked from parties.

But please keep in mind DPS guardian are glassy as hell.

I’m wondering this too. What do Guardians have which competes with 100b?

sword auto, and gs

They have good DPS in certain builds. However they lack a lot of the back ground tools warriors have. I personally like the guardian DPS. I don’t play it, but I started this game on Guard, so therefore it has a soft spot for me. Some people ace the build better than others and can appear unstoppable at first, however after 20ish seconds if you survive the initial onslaught you soon see they lack the follow thru of warriors. It is like comparing a modern car to a muscle car. One may be quick of the mark, but over a 100 mile distance the muscle car will win kinda thing.

Seems highly unlikely, but theres no dps meter to really compare the two. Guardians have way more support skills and their best dps weapon (greatsword) is more utility than direct damage like on the Warrior (can’t beat 100b). They also have a much lower base health which makes them less suited for face tanking without carrying any defensive skills. Comparing equally geared/experienced players the warrior will generally have a much higher dps. I’m sure there are some really powerful Guardian builds out there, I just have yet to see one that really stands out.

Highchu.3806:

Seems highly unlikely, but theres no dps meter to really compare the two. Guardians have way more support skills and their best dps weapon (greatsword) is more utility than direct damage like on the Warrior (can’t beat 100b). They also have a much lower base health which makes them less suited for face tanking without carrying any defensive skills. Comparing equally geared/experienced players the warrior will generally have a much higher dps. I’m sure there are some really powerful Guardian builds out there, I just have yet to see one that really stands out.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/John-Peters-on-DPS-Meta/first

i’ll quote the relevant post

You’re looking at the big number and ignoring the details around it.
That’s 35,587 damage [hundred blades] over a period of 3.5 seconds, not an instant 35k. Now since that was in a situation with slaying potion, food, banner of discipline, fury, five might stacks initially off of rage signet, allow me to try to set up a similar situation with guardian (using a vet risen giant).

I popped save yourselves, used bane signet and use focus 4, sword 2, virtue f1 and gs 3 to proc a total of 18 stacks of vuln (the focus 4 bounced a few times) plus that 48% in modifiers I talked about, then did a greatsword auto chain.

The DPS of the auto added to a total of 5,667. I then broke combat, waited for cooldowns, triggered 18 vuln again and used a sword auto chain and achieved a DPS of 6,608. I also forgot to pop food and a slaying potion, so I suppose I’ll just be lazy and throw an extra 10% on top (even though damage modifiers aren’t additive) so let’s call those numbers 6,233 DPS for GS auto and 7,268 DPS for sword auto. This again is not factoring in food, it also factors my lack of ascended on guardian.

I then did a whirling wrath and it registered as 13,183 damage on my game, and since it supposedly has a 0.75s casting time that means my whirling wrath alone had a DPS of 17,577. It also has a cooldown of 10s versus the 8.5s of hundred blades so it’s pretty spammable. Again, no slaying potion, food, limited ascended. My combat log gave me the following from it too:

1,919
719
1919
325
1919
719
1919
719
1919
719
868
719
868
719

Which equals 14 hits, which makes sense because I stood in its hitbox. What this means, is if we were to assume all crits (so basically damage dealt * 2.21 for my character) I would have dealt a 21,770 damage whirling wrath which would be 29,026 DPS.

So now do you understand that warriors aren’t DPS godmode?

The short version of that being:

- Guardians have better auto-attacks on GS, hammer, and sword versus the warrior equivalents (GS and axe).
- Guardians have good burst damage on their skills too, it’s just not as obvious. Whirling Wrath deals about 75% of the damage of HB in about half the time, for example. They also have stuff like Symbol of Wrath, etc. which tick heavy damage over time.
- Warriors APPEAR to have better damage because they can build up might/vuln/fury more easily on their own. Once you take those out of the picture (i.e. by giving the guardian the same buffs) the guardian keeps up just fine.

Warriors got a pretty decent DPS buff in the last patch so they are still ahead in overall damage, but it’s not by nearly as much as a lot of people seem to think. It is at most about 10% depending on whether you can push the target into a wall or not. To be honest I’m surprised the “but what about HB’s big number” thing still comes up this late into the game’s lifespan.

Guardian’s does higher damage than warriors with raid buff, but they can’t really buff these reliably and high stacks themselves.

On a individual bases, or small groups warrior will out dps guardians because we can buff might, fury and vuln better.

In theory Guardian can have better DPS than warrior. But they bring mainly party support (bind, aegis, reflect, etc), they don’t bring offensive support like the warrior can do (EA, Banner, FGJ, etc).

Ya, if you are fully boosted (from you and your party), the Guardian will do more DPS than a Warrior. But the guardian won’t take part in that DPS boosting that the Warrior bring. So usually, it serve no purpose at all to bring a guardian specifically for the DPS.

Usually the rules of thumb right now is take as much Elementalist as possible and switch some of them for specific profession that can bring specific stuff that you might need in a particular setting. It usually mean 1 Warrior for EA and Banners, a Guardian for party support (only when you need it), a thief if you need stealth, a mesmer if you need feedback or something else from them, etc.

In a dungeon meta party i wouldn’t be surprised if a Guardian out-dpses a warrior. This is assuming 25 might stacks, banners, fury, etc.

Considering burns, symbol damage, retaliation, raw DPS from attacks like sword auto and whirling blades, it really adds up to be a lot. Just because you don’t see scary high numbers doesn’t mean you aren’t doing DPS, as with the case for the Guardian.

In PUGS, warriors probably do more DPS.

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Lol dude, Berserker power and Heightened Focus used to be adept traits you know that, axe auto attack chain used to have damage spread over all hit you know that?

and also wat kind of idiot would believe Dual Wield Agility is any close to being decent, lol

I think all the kitten-warrior need to take a breath. Read the post on guardian DPS and why it’s better, not just look at it quickly, but really read it. Take a breath. Stop jumping to conclusion. Think. Comprehend. Then comment.

Simon.3794:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Lol dude, Berserker power and Heightened Focus used to be adept traits you know that, axe auto attack chain used to have damage spread over all hit you know that?

and also wat kind of idiot would believe Dual Wield Agility is any close to being decent, lol

Berserker’s Power also used to be 12% and Heightened Focus only 9%. And DWA being a 8-9% DPS buff (it’s not quite 10% due to aftercasts) right next to Attack of Opportunity being another 10% one point to the left is in fact a pretty big deal.

There’s a reason why the new solo DPS build is 6/6/0/2/0 now even though the old 6/5/0/0/3 build hasn’t been nerfed at all.

I thought that guardians dealing more damage than warriors was commen knowledge since like 1 year ago?

And yes, warriors damage got nerfed consistently over multiple patches. The old hammer build lost 40% dmg (talking about more than a year ago).

Simon.3794:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Lol dude, Berserker power and Heightened Focus used to be adept traits you know that, axe auto attack chain used to have damage spread over all hit you know that?

and also wat kind of idiot would believe Dual Wield Agility is any close to being decent, lol

Not everyone clings to PvP matches on this game, bud.

DWA is in fact a useful trait, despite whether or not I personally care to use it.

@OP
Guardians, like most of the other classes, can out-DPS warrior in optimal settings with proper buffs (outsourced fury, might etc).

However in a solo setting, guardians are not able to outperform a warrior provided we aren’t talking about reflects.

Warlord.9074:

DPS guardians have always had good dps its just they were shuned, as people expect guardians to support the group and kicked from parties.

But please keep in mind DPS guardian are glassy as hell.

I can confirm that. Guardians can do a heck of a lot of DPS with Wall of Reflection depending on the enemy your fighting. The last time I ran FotM (a couple of months ago) I used Wall of Reflection on the volcanic final boss and the slimes killed themselves.

I think it’s funny that people complain about warriors being “OP” when a guardian can have higher DPS and more sustain.

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses. The blocks, blinds, damage, and sustain they have is absurd. They can basically scepter number 1 you to death if they wanted.

EvilSardine.9635:

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses. The blocks, blinds, damage, and sustain they have is absurd. They can basically scepter number 1 you to death if they wanted.

Nice. The proffessional PvPlers entered the forum.

EvilSardine.9635:

I think it’s funny that people complain about warriors being “OP” when a guardian can have higher DPS and more sustain.

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses. The blocks, blinds, damage, and sustain they have is absurd. They can basically scepter number 1 you to death if they wanted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3tfcIiBRz_Q%26feature%3Dshare%26list%3DPL69DSPspkvjm4rzUIUHABF8WpffJDPGcn%26index%3D3

Assassin X.8573:

EvilSardine.9635:

I think it’s funny that people complain about warriors being “OP” when a guardian can have higher DPS and more sustain.

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses. The blocks, blinds, damage, and sustain they have is absurd. They can basically scepter number 1 you to death if they wanted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3tfcIiBRz_Q%26feature%3Dshare%26list%3DPL69DSPspkvjm4rzUIUHABF8WpffJDPGcn%26index%3D3

That guardian was not good from the few seconds I saw. I had to close it after I saw you skill clicking. Sorry.

in Pvp and assuming players are of equal skill level the guardian will have an upperhand.

i’m not sure why people think warrior does more damage than guardian. it’s sad actually, anet wants warriors to be the damage class but a support class like guardian does it better. :P

edit: is it really our fault the majority of players stand in 100blade animation?

Warrior was never the damage class, they are the jacks of all trades. Offensive support is more what the warrior plays, and guardian plays defensive support. If you want damage, roll an ele or mesmer, those are the real damage classes although engie has been encroaching on them pretty hard lately with all the buffs they’ve been getting.

EvilSardine.9635:

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses.

sigh. good post good thread, keep this constructive conversation going

Assassin X.8573:

EvilSardine.9635:

I think it’s funny that people complain about warriors being “OP” when a guardian can have higher DPS and more sustain.

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses. The blocks, blinds, damage, and sustain they have is absurd. They can basically scepter number 1 you to death if they wanted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3tfcIiBRz_Q%26feature%3Dshare%26list%3DPL69DSPspkvjm4rzUIUHABF8WpffJDPGcn%26index%3D3

That guardian pretty much ate every 100b without being stunned or immob.

Purple Miku.7032:

Simon.3794:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Lol dude, Berserker power and Heightened Focus used to be adept traits you know that, axe auto attack chain used to have damage spread over all hit you know that?

and also wat kind of idiot would believe Dual Wield Agility is any close to being decent, lol

Not everyone clings to PvP matches on this game, bud.

Because GW2 is balanced around PVP and there is no balance in PVE at all?

Hammer F1 Nerfed
Hammer Mastery Nerfed
Bow F1 Nerfed
Bow 5 Nerfed
Mace F1 Nerfed
AXE F1 Nerfed this happened a long time ago u have to be an old player to remember.
Empowed used to be 2% per boon Nerfed
Berserkers power Moved Nerfed with an adept you could alocate points elsewere equaling more DPS than now
Heightened focous Moved Nerfed with an adept you could alocate points elsewere equaling more DPS than now
Burst Mastery Nerfed by 3%
Unsuspecting Foe moved Nerfed
Leg specialest given an ICD becasue of sword buff nerfed (this has a consiqustial negative effect on other weapons like hammers)
Axe AA Nerfed
Shout coefientents nerfed you guys probably havent played long enough to been around when they healed for more.
Healing signet nerfed
Rifle was nerfed ahwile back given longer cast times on Vuln skill.

You think these nerfs are because of PVE? Pretty much I garantee we could put warrior back to how it was before and it will do more damage than it does now. Its not really debatable. I know gang lives in a delusional world where none of this happened but comon.

So they buffed zerkers power to 15% and heightened focus to 15% Never mind the fact that before you could not only take both but also take multiple other damage modifiers in the process equating to more DPS before than now because you had so many points left over after that.

Before you could do like

20/25/0/10/15 which was arguably more damage for a GS than it is now.
or
25/30/0/0/15

You could real 100% crit chance without consumables. And trait all of your damage modifiers and retain fast hands.

For PVP you could slot both zerkers power and heightened foucous reatin high damage then be able to build very defensively.

Keiel.7489:

Assassin X.8573:

EvilSardine.9635:

I think it’s funny that people complain about warriors being “OP” when a guardian can have higher DPS and more sustain.

A warrior can not beat a DPS oriented guardian in a duel no matter what build he uses. The blocks, blinds, damage, and sustain they have is absurd. They can basically scepter number 1 you to death if they wanted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3tfcIiBRz_Q%26feature%3Dshare%26list%3DPL69DSPspkvjm4rzUIUHABF8WpffJDPGcn%26index%3D3

That guardian pretty much ate every 100b without being stunned or immob.

honestly both players in that video are using terrible builds for dueling. and both are pretty bad too.

Heres a real guardian video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQjbQ4sphDs

Warlord.9074:

Heres a real guardian video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQjbQ4sphDs

is that dead ele at 4:10 mel

ICEing.9237:

Is this true? I always thought warriors were higher in dps and Eles are higher than warriors. How are guardians higher?

they arent, guardians arent made for damage, and have no utility to sustain it, notice how all the “guardians #1” posters are using hypotheticals like “probably,” “maybe,” and “it’s possible.”

not real arguments, not real proof, just people who play guardians popping off conjecture

Warlord.9074:

Heres a real guardian video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQjbQ4sphDs

Subhonor is a beast though, I think he’s up 100-1 vs me.

what about in raid group?
would you take dps guardian or warrior ?
me and my guildy made a comparison with AA dmg in the mist and my guardian did the same dmg but as i proc burning for 600 dmg the dmg was higher.
also with just AA’s i manage to take down the golem much faster than the warrior.

as i dont know much about warrior builds can you ping me dps warrior build for guild raid (no zerk ones pls)

If your burning does 600 dmg (per tick) u did something wrong.

In PvE guardians need only about ~ 15% UC/Aegis uptime to deal more dps then warriors (with only 7 ww and 1 binding blade hits).
Scepter on big target does always more.

In WvW guards can play more offensive then warriors thanks to AH, and deal more dmg aswell.

Norjena.5172:

If your burning does 600 dmg (per tick) u did something wrong.

to do 600 burning dmg u need (no might stacks) 1k condition dmg .if you invest 1k on condition dmg you power will be low

so how you get higher in wvw group raid (no zerk build)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Lol dude, Berserker power and Heightened Focus used to be adept traits you know that, axe auto attack chain used to have damage spread over all hit you know that?

and also wat kind of idiot would believe Dual Wield Agility is any close to being decent, lol

Berserker’s Power also used to be 12% and Heightened Focus only 9%. And DWA being a 8-9% DPS buff (it’s not quite 10% due to aftercasts) right next to Attack of Opportunity being another 10% one point to the left is in fact a pretty big deal.

There’s a reason why the new solo DPS build is 6/6/0/2/0 now even though the old 6/5/0/0/3 build hasn’t been nerfed at all.

Berserker’s power used to be 12% damage and Heighteneed Focus used to me 9% crit chance, so what. they were adept traits, you can have more damage modifier traits back then while having these two. like Attack of Opporunity, +10% damage to bleed foes. i can’t even know how 65003 is not nerfed without heightened focus.

also, if you still believe that warriors damage did not fall down, then guardian out dps’ed warrior for a longer then what i thought, way before the time.

Lenn.6347:

ICEing.9237:

Is this true? I always thought warriors were higher in dps and Eles are higher than warriors. How are guardians higher?

they arent, guardians arent made for damage, and have no utility to sustain it, notice how all the “guardians #1” posters are using hypotheticals like “probably,” “maybe,” and “it’s possible.”

not real arguments, not real proof, just people who play guardians popping off conjecture

Of course they are not. You don’t bring Guardian for damage you bring it for the defensive support (blind, aegis, reflect, etc). Like you don’t bring a warrior for damage, you bring it for offensive support (EA, FGJ, Banners, etc). If you want pure dmg, you talk about Ele and Thief, profession like that.

And yes of course we are using in Theory, or its possible. Why? Because guardian can’t bring offensive support by themselve. So if they are in a party wihtout warrior, then they will never have better DPS than a warrior, while the warrior can do as much damage as he can without any guardian in his group. The warrior can take care of fury, might, and banner while doing good DPS, while the guardian can give himself a couple of might and that’s all. But if the guardian have the same amount of offensive support provided to him by the group, then he will out-dps a warrior. Still, its not really a issue, since both profession are brought because of their support and not their damage.