Guild Wars 2

@^
And be twice as survivable while assisting teamates

Red Falcon.8257:

Brutalistik.6473:

What he means Daecollo is that if you play a guardian more than your warrior. The developers which they’re starting to acknowledge I believe is that warriors profession does have an issue in competitive pvp. Playing another profession instead of a frustration one will give it recognition on why no one wants to play that profession when it comes to only Tourneys or Spvp and not WvW.

I played a lot of tourneys vs good teams and all, Warrior is fine in tPvP.
I believe most people simply play Warriors the wrong way.
Warrior is about setting up a kill and keep pressuring, and it’s not like it misses the tools to do so.
Your job is to keep the target impaired and unleash the big hitters at the right time.

Isn’t that suppose to be all profession jobs? Keeping pressure on their targets? That isn’t nothing new in pvp. I’m guessing the wrong way is not playing different builds and stay as a roamer mobility warrior using GS /axe shield?

I wouldn’t say we are fine and even the devs know this. We are expendable like a fill in slot if no other useful profession wants to come in. That’s how I view it.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Veritas.6071:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|k52.0.f5.0.a5|0.0|5z.6b.6f.0.0|e

With 1 free utility slot and 25 free trait points. =)

Should i cry? I won’t even commend it. Use what u picked now against..condition warrior

edit:
@Brutalistik
I know he wont answer me, was easy to shut him down.

There is still an awful lot there to work with. With Lyssa runes, which aren’t terrible for a warrior, and 10 more points in Discipline, you would have a full cleanse every 36 sec, 48 sec, a pretty thorough cleanse every 25, and 33% reduction to all movement impairing conditions aside from Fear. Plus, you’d still have 15 more points to work with. Maybe some classes have it better, but it isn’t bad for a class designed to struggle against damaging conditions.

Veritas.6071:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Veritas.6071:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|k52.0.f5.0.a5|0.0|5z.6b.6f.0.0|e

With 1 free utility slot and 25 free trait points. =)

Should i cry? I won’t even commend it. Use what u picked now against..condition warrior

edit:
@Brutalistik
I know he wont answer me, was easy to shut him down.

There is still an awful lot there to work with. With Lyssa runes, which aren’t terrible for a warrior, and 10 more points in Discipline, you would have a full cleanse every 36 sec, 48 sec, a pretty thorough cleanse every 25, and 33% reduction to all movement impairing conditions aside from Fear. Plus, you’d still have 15 more points to work with. Maybe some classes have it better, but it isn’t bad for a class designed to struggle against damaging conditions.

Play a ranger and a necromancer.
Laugh and destroy anyone with ravaging constant reapplying conditions?

Oh you cured my conditions? Here is another stack of 5 bleeds and poison, hey have some fire too! – Ranger.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcom0M9comMgMomogM0xx0azaqcaqM
JOKE

Veritas.6071:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Veritas.6071:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|k52.0.f5.0.a5|0.0|5z.6b.6f.0.0|e

With 1 free utility slot and 25 free trait points. =)

Should i cry? I won’t even commend it. Use what u picked now against..condition warrior

edit:
@Brutalistik
I know he wont answer me, was easy to shut him down.

There is still an awful lot there to work with. With Lyssa runes, which aren’t terrible for a warrior, and 10 more points in Discipline, you would have a full cleanse every 36 sec, 48 sec, a pretty thorough cleanse every 25, and 33% reduction to all movement impairing conditions aside from Fear. Plus, you’d still have 15 more points to work with. Maybe some classes have it better, but it isn’t bad for a class designed to struggle against damaging conditions.

I said NO sigils and runes.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Veritas.6071:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Veritas.6071:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|k52.0.f5.0.a5|0.0|5z.6b.6f.0.0|e

With 1 free utility slot and 25 free trait points. =)

Should i cry? I won’t even commend it. Use what u picked now against..condition warrior

edit:
@Brutalistik
I know he wont answer me, was easy to shut him down.

There is still an awful lot there to work with. With Lyssa runes, which aren’t terrible for a warrior, and 10 more points in Discipline, you would have a full cleanse every 36 sec, 48 sec, a pretty thorough cleanse every 25, and 33% reduction to all movement impairing conditions aside from Fear. Plus, you’d still have 15 more points to work with. Maybe some classes have it better, but it isn’t bad for a class designed to struggle against damaging conditions.

I said NO sigils and runes.

The initial build had no sigils or runes. Just for kicks, throw together a build from any other class without sigils or runes. I don’t expect the warrior to be better, but I don’t imagine the difference will be as dismal as it’s being made to sound.

Daecollo.9578:

Veritas.6071:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Veritas.6071:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|k52.0.f5.0.a5|0.0|5z.6b.6f.0.0|e

With 1 free utility slot and 25 free trait points. =)

Should i cry? I won’t even commend it. Use what u picked now against..condition warrior

edit:
@Brutalistik
I know he wont answer me, was easy to shut him down.

There is still an awful lot there to work with. With Lyssa runes, which aren’t terrible for a warrior, and 10 more points in Discipline, you would have a full cleanse every 36 sec, 48 sec, a pretty thorough cleanse every 25, and 33% reduction to all movement impairing conditions aside from Fear. Plus, you’d still have 15 more points to work with. Maybe some classes have it better, but it isn’t bad for a class designed to struggle against damaging conditions.

Play a ranger and a necromancer.
Laugh and destroy anyone with ravaging constant reapplying conditions?

Oh you cured my conditions? Here is another stack of 5 bleeds and poison, hey have some fire too! – Ranger.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcom0M9comMgMomogM0xx0azaqcaqM
JOKE

Those classes have viable condition builds. I would hope those builds can overpower my cleanses or it wouldn’t be balanced.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Tetra Bug.7134:

Seriously. We have pretty decent condition removal if you trait for it. No profession gets free condition removal, there is some trait expenditure involved in getting condition removal in all classes. Stop whining about conditions and learn to build for them.

Make a build for condition removal for me, by following rules:

1. No sigils
2. No runes

here ya go, im waiting

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|2.1g.0|c.1g.0.g.1g.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|a2.0.k2a.k69.k6a|0.0|5z.6f.6b.0.0|e

You have mending to remove all but two non damage conditions before the two it’s already built to remove. Charge removes all movement impairing conditions, and converts one to a boon. Call to Arms removes one and turns it into a boon. Shake It Off removes one and breaks stun. Signet of stamina removes all conditions. Dogged march reduces all movement impairing conditions by 33%

That is up to six every 26s, up to four and a random boon AoE every 12.5s, one and a random boon every 16s, one and a stun break every 25s, and a full cleanse every 36s.

Now please, explain to me how these options aren’t enough. We are not immune to conditions and heavy condition pressure will be a challenge to deal with. With runes and sigils which for some reason you don’t want me to include you can actually make conditions pretty trivial outside of the most extreme condition pressure. For example, you could run something like this in WvW.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|2.1g.h19|c.1g.h19.g.1g.h1|1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.2v.0|a2.0.k2a.k69.k6a|15.1|5z.6f.6b.6g.6m|e

All that condition removal with -65% condition duration, and transfer conditions to enemies with a 60% chance on crit.

Warriors suffer more from no real sustain than they do from conditions if you build right.

Tetra Bug.7134:

Warriors suffer more from no real sustain than they do from conditions if you build right.

I also believe this is the problem with warrior. Unless you run GS or Sword, you don’t have the mobility to disengage, and we don’t have the tools to build for good sustain. We need one or the other. Or possibly some other change that I haven’t even fathomed.

Tetra Bug.7134:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Tetra Bug.7134:

Seriously. We have pretty decent condition removal if you trait for it. No profession gets free condition removal, there is some trait expenditure involved in getting condition removal in all classes. Stop whining about conditions and learn to build for them.

Make a build for condition removal for me, by following rules:

1. No sigils
2. No runes

here ya go, im waiting

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|2.1g.0|c.1g.0.g.1g.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|a2.0.k2a.k69.k6a|0.0|5z.6f.6b.0.0|e

You have mending to remove all but two non damage conditions before the two it’s already built to remove. Charge removes all movement impairing conditions, and converts one to a boon. Call to Arms removes one and turns it into a boon. Shake It Off removes one and breaks stun. Signet of stamina removes all conditions. Dogged march reduces all movement impairing conditions by 33%

That is up to six every 26s, up to four and a random boon AoE every 12.5s, one and a random boon every 16s, one and a stun break every 25s, and a full cleanse every 36s.

Now please, explain to me how these options aren’t enough. We are not immune to conditions and heavy condition pressure will be a challenge to deal with. With runes and sigils which for some reason you don’t want me to include you can actually make conditions pretty trivial outside of the most extreme condition pressure. For example, you could run something like this in WvW.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|2.1g.h19|c.1g.h19.g.1g.h1|1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r.1n.7r|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.2v.0|a2.0.k2a.k69.k6a|15.1|5z.6f.6b.6g.6m|e

All that condition removal with -65% condition duration, and transfer conditions to enemies with a 60% chance on crit.

Warriors suffer more from no real sustain than they do from conditions if you build right.

Restorative strenght is useless trait, well gratz anyway, u removed 2 damaging conditions that will be reapplied within matter of second, also rebember that mending is our healing skill..definitely too low to stay for too long even against bleeds alone

Warhorn 4 is nice, yes, but not worth training for it as in most cases its converting the worse conditions (maintly bleeding while u still burning) rathen the ones that we need, also like mending cd is a bit too high to make it a viable choice

Signet of stamina is actually nice against massive amount of condis..problem is cd is way too high. By that time they u will be suffering from conditions again.

Dogger march does not removes movement conditions, just cutting duration by 33%, u can’t take it as condition removal unless u trolling me somehow.

That setup u gave me i actually been running about month ago, in the end i was still dying to a condition necro, as i wasnt capable to cure all damaging condion, healing from mending was as good as useless, and my damage too low to take that necro. Ofc i survived a bit longer..about 1,5min i think but does its worth it?

Lets sum it up:

- no damage
- crappy healing
- condition removal wasnt enough

and thats against necro..i can’t imagine myself against hgh engi with that.

As for second build, it is pve/wvw not spvp. Also im sure that they will turn foods off in wvw as they goes to make split between pve/spvp/wvw leaving u with 25%. Its olny matter of time as its was with omno pies.

Also i never said that we need a condition removal of guardian, just a lil better than we have now, as i also think that the main problem is healing abilities.

btw sry for my bad english but i don’t feel well to writting anything today.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Restorative strenght is useless trait, well gratz anyway, u removed 2 damaging conditions that will be reapplied within matter of second, also rebember that mending is our healing skill..definitely too low to stay for too long even against bleeds alone

I find this a funny argument…it’s like, “no kitten, Sherlock! You’re not suppose to be immune to conditions!”

The idea is, if someone’s applying bleeding, you remove some of the stacks and now the one applying the bleeds has to start over. The alternative is having your old stacks ON TOP OF the new stacks they will keep applying. The other alternative is to just eat whatever stacks get put on you.

The idea isn’t to be condition free 75% of the time! No good condition user will allow it! The idea is to lessen the burst effect of piling a lot of conditions on you at once! You remove them so they don’t pile up not to be free of conditions.

Even if you can remove a condition every 2 seconds, a condition user will cover his his damaging conditions with others and even if you remove his bleed, he will apply it and others again…so the logic of “gratz you removed the damaging conditions, now he’ll reapply them” works against any condition removal regardless of how frequent and yet not everyone is crying about it.

So pretty much your saying Warriors are only good for running away from fights and not standing and fighting them?

So you’re adding lack of reading comprehension to your repertoire of Warrior Whining along with lying and misrepresentation?

Leo G.4501:

So you’re adding lack of reading comprehension to your repertoire of Warrior Whining along with lying and misrepresentation?

It doesn’t work against guardian condition removal. Its part of the reason why I play one now.

Leo G.4501:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Restorative strenght is useless trait, well gratz anyway, u removed 2 damaging conditions that will be reapplied within matter of second, also rebember that mending is our healing skill..definitely too low to stay for too long even against bleeds alone

I find this a funny argument…it’s like, “no kitten, Sherlock! You’re not suppose to be immune to conditions!”

The idea is, if someone’s applying bleeding, you remove some of the stacks and now the one applying the bleeds has to start over. The alternative is having your old stacks ON TOP OF the new stacks they will keep applying. The other alternative is to just eat whatever stacks get put on you.

The idea isn’t to be condition free 75% of the time! No good condition user will allow it! The idea is to lessen the burst effect of piling a lot of conditions on you at once! You remove them so they don’t pile up not to be free of conditions.

Even if you can remove a condition every 2 seconds, a condition user will cover his his damaging conditions with others and even if you remove his bleed, he will apply it and others again…so the logic of “gratz you removed the damaging conditions, now he’ll reapply them” works against any condition removal regardless of how frequent and yet not everyone is crying about it.

This is why I stopped worrying about condition removal and just picked up Melandru + Lemongrass (+ Dogged March). Works great and gave me back my utilitiy slot + Healing Surge.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Leo G.4501:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Restorative strenght is useless trait, well gratz anyway, u removed 2 damaging conditions that will be reapplied within matter of second, also rebember that mending is our healing skill..definitely too low to stay for too long even against bleeds alone

I find this a funny argument…it’s like, “no kitten, Sherlock! You’re not suppose to be immune to conditions!”

The idea is, if someone’s applying bleeding, you remove some of the stacks and now the one applying the bleeds has to start over. The alternative is having your old stacks ON TOP OF the new stacks they will keep applying. The other alternative is to just eat whatever stacks get put on you.

The idea isn’t to be condition free 75% of the time! No good condition user will allow it! The idea is to lessen the burst effect of piling a lot of conditions on you at once! You remove them so they don’t pile up not to be free of conditions.

Even if you can remove a condition every 2 seconds, a condition user will cover his his damaging conditions with others and even if you remove his bleed, he will apply it and others again…so the logic of “gratz you removed the damaging conditions, now he’ll reapply them” works against any condition removal regardless of how frequent and yet not everyone is crying about it.

This is why I stopped worrying about condition removal and just picked up Melandru + Lemongrass (+ Dogged March). Works great and gave me back my utilitiy slot + Healing Surge.

Yup yup, don’t like limiting myself that other professions excels at because lets face it conditions are reapplied quick anyway.

Healing Signet needs its passive doubled. Simply decreasing its duration won’t do anything.

Imo combine shout heals and banner regen into one trait and double healing signet’s base healing and make it scale better with healing power.

If any of the leaked stuff is true, have 5 seconds knocked off from all our healing moves is going to drastically increase our survivability. Hell, I may pickup healing signet again if I can have a steady miniheal I can pop every 15 seconds when I need it (most of the time healing shouts keep me well above 75% health in most fights.)

Thinking the same Setun. I’m also running Signet Mastery so having a mini-heal every 12 seconds is really nice. I also use compote food/resto sigil and healing shouts the heals i get ever now and then might make me really survivable.

The reason why the Healing Signet is worthless in pvp isn’t because its a low cool-down, its because of its unreasonably long casting time, its impossible to not get interrupted with his animation/length.

Now that it can become a 12 second cast, there is absolutely no point to using it’s passive, I can use runes and get regeneration that can heal almost as much, might as well move it to a utility slot.

Now that mesmers can do 750 damage when INTERRUPTING YOU (far more then the heal heals for.) they can simply watch a warrior do that, interrupt him and do almost as much damage then backstab in direct damage to you.

Warriors got WORSE IN PVP and worse in PVE this patch, the changes (if they are true) did nothing but nerf us in PvP/PvE.

You will never be able to use that heal with its horrendusly long 1¼ second cast time, it just became a skilless and spammy mess.

This will be the new warrior unless the developers learn from there mistakes…

Why, just why did you bring this thread back? It’s almost a month old dude. At the very least wait for the patch to come out rather than pretend the fake leaks are real.

This is what healing signet should be…

Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

Mending should have its cool-down lowered to 15 seconds to fill in the spot Healing Signet has as a low cool-down heal. Healing Surge should be a 20 second CD.

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…

Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

Mending should have its cool-down lowered to 15 seconds to fill in the spot Healing Signet has as a low cool-down heal. Healing Surge should be a 20 second CD.

Your serious, the signet should heal 16350 Points in 30sec!?
This were the 2,5x from the healskills of all other classes. -.-

If you find the signet is to weak, what it isn’t, then dont use it.

shimmerless.4560:

Black Teagan.9215:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…

Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

Mending should have its cool-down lowered to 15 seconds to fill in the spot Healing Signet has as a low cool-down heal. Healing Surge should be a 20 second CD.

Your serious, the signet should heal 16350 Points in 30sec!?
This were the 2,5x from the healskills of all other classes. -.-

If you find the signet is to weak, what it isn’t, then dont use it.

This is a silly point to make, yes it would heal for more but the burst would be on a very long (for a heal) cooldown and you don’t get the passive benefit of Signets once you use the active. I think it’d be more than fair.

Yes… and OMGee 16250 in 30 seconds?! That is a long time and that isn’t even your full base health bar. Yes it is, but I can proc Signet of Malice soo many times on 1 attack and heal for 25-35% of my life on a thief. This can’t proc off anything but every second, so it SHOULD be more powerful.

@Shimmerless: I really don’t think he understands me.

Unlike every other signet that heals, Healing Signet is just a static: Heal per second. Other Signets have this little thing called Opportunity Cost which means it can heal far more then it originally says because of the way you and your enemies perform there actions, not only that the Warrior has a much larger health pool then most of those classes, meaning they must heal more to make up for that percent they don’t gain.

If it had a 30 second cool-down, you would love your HPS using its heal, it should only be used as an emergency. You also have to deal with the long cast time and animation.

Healing Surge has its own problems right now. Not just Healing Signet.

I feel the -5 seconds on all the heals were just a lazy way to save time, most of the changes were towards necromancer, feel like warriors were just abandoned.

i once played regen bunker type, with banner regen, healing signet, and rune. i pretty much have 3 regen ticking per sec and have banner of tactic and toughness, so it would be two heal too, guess what…cant compare with a guardian or any good bunker profs.sure when a not dps not bunker hit you, its like nothing, but when its burst or two or.more people..and..that active healing signet heals so littel its like none on a high hp build.

but dropping banner for everyone to have perma regen in group fight is actually really nice

Lighter.5631:

i once played regen bunker type, with banner regen, healing signet, and rune. i pretty much have 3 regen ticking per sec and have banner of tactic and toughness, so it would be two heal too, guess what…cant compare with a guardian or any good bunker profs.sure when a not dps not bunker hit you, its like nothing, but when its burst or two or.more people..and..that active healing signet heals so littel its like none on a high hp build.

but dropping banner for everyone to have perma regen in group fight is actually really nice

To bad other classes don’t have to give up so much for this.

For an ele to give perma group regen, ‘5’ points in water… which stacks with regeneration…

Daecollo.9578:

Lighter.5631:

i once played regen bunker type, with banner regen, healing signet, and rune. i pretty much have 3 regen ticking per sec and have banner of tactic and toughness, so it would be two heal too, guess what…cant compare with a guardian or any good bunker profs.sure when a not dps not bunker hit you, its like nothing, but when its burst or two or.more people..and..that active healing signet heals so littel its like none on a high hp build.

but dropping banner for everyone to have perma regen in group fight is actually really nice

To bad other classes don’t have to give up so much for this.

For an ele to give perma group regen, ‘5’ points in water… which stacks with regeneration…

That regen is minuscule. It is like 80-90hp per second and no ele will sit in water forever.
The main problem at hand for warrior survivability is and always has been a LACK of protection or aegis.
Once I tried an spvp game on my ele without ever going into earth (to test my overall survivability without the protection buff), suffice to say I dropped health as fast as my warrior lol.

Either Anet gives warriors an access to one or both of these buffs or they improve their heals by 20-40% based on the warriors health pool.

The problem is that due to a lack of active defense, a warrior with 25000 hp is equal to an ele with 15000 hp. BUT the ele can heal up from 10% to 100% with his multiple heals while the warriors strongest heal (surge with 3 bars) gets him back a bare 30%.

Simplest solution to the whole problem of warrior survivability is to provide a trait that causes heals to scale on your total health pool along with healing power.
Its unique and its helpful (I do not know how hard it will be to code though :-/ )

Lighter.5631:

i once played regen bunker type, with banner regen, healing signet, and rune. i pretty much have 3 regen ticking per sec and have banner of tactic and toughness, so it would be two heal too, guess what…cant compare with a guardian or any good bunker profs.sure when a not dps not bunker hit you, its like nothing, but when its burst or two or.more people..and..that active healing signet heals so littel its like none on a high hp build.

but dropping banner for everyone to have perma regen in group fight is actually really nice

I take Disc Banner for my banner healing (no extra healing power) build. I take Healing Signet and Adrenal Health too. You’re right there is no burst heal, because Banner o’ Tactics burst heal is absolutely horrendous, and of course Signet burst heal is crapola. These traits and skills work for a Soldiers type build, but sadly fail for bunkers. If Tactics had a nice 3k burst heal then things would be different, but unfortunately half of the heal is dedicated to more regen : \

Daecollo.9578:

shimmerless.4560:

Black Teagan.9215:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…

Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

Mending should have its cool-down lowered to 15 seconds to fill in the spot Healing Signet has as a low cool-down heal. Healing Surge should be a 20 second CD.

Your serious, the signet should heal 16350 Points in 30sec!?
This were the 2,5x from the healskills of all other classes. -.-

If you find the signet is to weak, what it isn’t, then dont use it.

This is a silly point to make, yes it would heal for more but the burst would be on a very long (for a heal) cooldown and you don’t get the passive benefit of Signets once you use the active. I think it’d be more than fair.

Yes… and OMGee 16250 in 30 seconds?! That is a long time and that isn’t even your full base health bar. Yes it is, but I can proc Signet of Malice soo many times on 1 attack and heal for 25-35% of my life on a thief. This can’t proc off anything but every second, so it SHOULD be more powerful.

@Shimmerless: I really don’t think he understands me.

Unlike every other signet that heals, Healing Signet is just a static: Heal per second. Other Signets have this little thing called Opportunity Cost which means it can heal far more then it originally says because of the way you and your enemies perform there actions, not only that the Warrior has a much larger health pool then most of those classes, meaning they must heal more to make up for that percent they don’t gain.

Can you explain why you give so much weight to what percentage of the health pool is healed?

Veritas.6071:

Can you explain why you give so much weight to what percentage of the health pool is healed?

Its simple really. Warriors have a large healthpool but terrible mitigation. Toughness is a very minor part of mitigation in this game. (and that is how it should be)
Most of the mitigation in this game comes from ACTIVE defense (protection boon, aegis boon, damage reduction traits/skills etc).

Warriors have non existant active defense so A-net compensated with a large hp pool which is good but not enough. We need our heals scaled with our hp or increased in their base values. Reducing cooldowns off heals (that too a flat amount lol) is a very lazy bandaid at best.

Traited signet can be used every 12seconds now. Does that make it good? NO

PvP is all about skills that make a difference every 20-30 sec and not skills that have to be spammed every 5-10 sec (unless they are instant or cant be interrupted).

Demon.5082:

Veritas.6071:

Can you explain why you give so much weight to what percentage of the health pool is healed?

Its simple really. Warriors have a large healthpool but terrible mitigation. Toughness is a very minor part of mitigation in this game. (and that is how it should be)
Most of the mitigation in this game comes from ACTIVE defense (protection boon, aegis boon, damage reduction traits/skills etc).

Warriors have non existant active defense so A-net compensated with a large hp pool which is good but not enough. We need our heals scaled with our hp or increased in their base values. Reducing cooldowns off heals (that too a flat amount lol) is a very lazy bandaid at best.

Traited signet can be used every 12seconds now. Does that make it good? NO

PvP is all about skills that make a difference every 20-30 sec and not skills that have to be spammed every 5-10 sec (unless they are instant or cant be interrupted).

What really matters is HPS not % healed. There are no attacks that deal damage based on your max health pool (although there are traits that give static damage increases when a target drops below a certain % but that isn’t the same). Therefore, how does it make sense to scale heals that way?

If you want more warrior healing, fine. But stop discrediting heals because they only heal “a small % of the pool”. The argument makes no sense.

Here is an exaggerated illustration to demonstrate the argument I’m hearing:

Toon 1: 10k hp, 8k heal on 30 sec CD
Toon 2: 5k hp, 5k heal on 30 sec CD

Toon 1 sucks because his heal only replenishes 80% of his health pool!

An argument which we can all see makes no sense.

Your heart is in the right place, but if you want to prove your point to the devs, Daecollo, mathematically compare Healing Per Second capabilities of the classes, not % hp recovered. Next, include Protection and the other forms of tremendously effective damage avoidance that the warrior has limited access to.

I also agree with you that the passive needs to be > than or = to the active on Healing Signet. If these notes are true, there will be no reason to use the passive and therefore, you’ll be forced into spamming heals every 12-15 seconds. Having to use your heal every 12-15 seconds takes you out of the fight (not dpsing), a lot… and gives the opportunity to be interrupted… a lot. Additionally, it is a tad weaker than our other heals. I run it for 2 reasons: 1) When I’m lazy and don’t want to manage my heal or 2) To combo it with runes that have an on-heal effect.

In closing, the devs aren’t stupid. I promise you they see this stuff (except for the bit about Healing Signet… I think they aren’t sure what they want it to be), but look what the warrior could do in the BWEs. We didn’t need defense because players hadn’t adapted to 100b/Eviscerate and our damage was still insane. But the community hated getting insta-gibbed. Fast forward 1 year and they’ve reduced our skill coefficients, destroyed our class specific stat, drastically redesigned a CERTAINNN utility, and the competitive player-base has had time to push the limits of each class; which has left us, a snapping turtle designed without a shell and debeaked with a nerf bat, to fight a bunch of jackrabbits with obnoxious amounts of in-combat stealth or magical skin that reduces incoming damage by 33%. lol. They’re totally redesigning the class, and just like with any kind of adjustment, it’s way easier to start from scratch with a fresh idea than it is to tweak tweak tweak something as complicated as a class post-release. Unfortunately, now they don’t have that luxury. On top of all that, the game wasn’t even close to ready for release. I bugged almost 1/3rd of the Guardian traits AND Virtue of Resolve which had a bug that totally stopped the incoming heals… on the last day of BWE3!… 3 days before release!… For that reason, I didn’t go Guard… I kick myself to this day.

Anyway, I agree with you that warrior needs more sustain.

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…
Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

That seems a big of a strong boost. Between Rune of the Dolyak (30hp/sec), Adrenal Healing (360/3sec) and your suggestion you could heal ~800-1k hp per sec. Once you consider using any invulnerable/cc/block skills you can mostly ignore every having to use the active heal.

I’ve been using a signet build since beta and while the Signet of Fury ~9% crit bonus is nice, the full adrenaline to double burst is really useful. Same with Signet of Stamina. In general the actives should be better (or unique) than the passives. But I do agree that an exception could be made for Healing Signet.

Would a better option be to just add regen to the active but maybe not reduce the cd?

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…
Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

That seems a big of a strong boost. Between Rune of the Dolyak (30hp/sec), Adrenal Healing (360/3sec) and your suggestion you could heal ~800-1k hp per sec. Once you consider using any invulnerable/cc/block skills you can mostly ignore every having to use the active heal.

I’ve been using a signet build since beta and while the Signet of Fury ~9% crit bonus is nice, the full adrenaline to double burst is really useful. Same with Signet of Stamina. In general the actives should be better (or unique) than the passives. But I do agree that an exception could be made for Healing Signet.

Would a better option be to just add regen to the active but maybe not reduce the cd?

I don’t see anything wrong with a Warrior that was able to heal 800 a second. It would give Warrior more sustain, which is what everyone thinks is needed anyway. Would it even be enough sustain with lack of protection? Probably not. We should start with making all heals health percent based, instead of static numbers.

Ashanor.5319:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…
Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

That seems a big of a strong boost. Between Rune of the Dolyak (30hp/sec), Adrenal Healing (360/3sec) and your suggestion you could heal ~800-1k hp per sec. Once you consider using any invulnerable/cc/block skills you can mostly ignore every having to use the active heal.

I’ve been using a signet build since beta and while the Signet of Fury ~9% crit bonus is nice, the full adrenaline to double burst is really useful. Same with Signet of Stamina. In general the actives should be better (or unique) than the passives. But I do agree that an exception could be made for Healing Signet.

Would a better option be to just add regen to the active but maybe not reduce the cd?

I don’t see anything wrong with a Warrior that was able to heal 800 a second. It would give Warrior more sustain, which is what everyone thinks is needed anyway. Would it even be enough sustain with lack of protection? Probably not. We should start with making all heals health percent based, instead of static numbers.

That’s true, but it doesn’t include if someone wants to do a shout heal build or banner regen build. Like I said I don’t really pvp, so I don’t know how things go there. But I don’t have too much trouble staying up in mid-lvl (mid 20s) fractals with the way healing signet is now. More than doubling it’s healing per/sec seems to be a bit extreme.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Ashanor.5319:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…
Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

That seems a big of a strong boost. Between Rune of the Dolyak (30hp/sec), Adrenal Healing (360/3sec) and your suggestion you could heal ~800-1k hp per sec. Once you consider using any invulnerable/cc/block skills you can mostly ignore every having to use the active heal.

I’ve been using a signet build since beta and while the Signet of Fury ~9% crit bonus is nice, the full adrenaline to double burst is really useful. Same with Signet of Stamina. In general the actives should be better (or unique) than the passives. But I do agree that an exception could be made for Healing Signet.

Would a better option be to just add regen to the active but maybe not reduce the cd?

I don’t see anything wrong with a Warrior that was able to heal 800 a second. It would give Warrior more sustain, which is what everyone thinks is needed anyway. Would it even be enough sustain with lack of protection? Probably not. We should start with making all heals health percent based, instead of static numbers.

That’s true, but it doesn’t include if someone wants to do a shout heal build or banner regen build. Like I said I don’t really pvp, so I don’t know how things go there. But I don’t have too much trouble staying up in mid-lvl (mid 20s) fractals with the way healing signet is now. More than doubling it’s healing per/sec seems to be a bit extreme.

Well, this is just more proof that we really need a separation of pve and pvp skills. Though I don’t really pve, so can’t talk much about it.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…
Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

That seems a big of a strong boost. Between Rune of the Dolyak (30hp/sec), Adrenal Healing (360/3sec) and your suggestion you could heal ~800-1k hp per sec. Once you consider using any invulnerable/cc/block skills you can mostly ignore every having to use the active heal.

I’ve been using a signet build since beta and while the Signet of Fury ~9% crit bonus is nice, the full adrenaline to double burst is really useful. Same with Signet of Stamina. In general the actives should be better (or unique) than the passives. But I do agree that an exception could be made for Healing Signet.

Would a better option be to just add regen to the active but maybe not reduce the cd?

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Daecollo.9578:

This is what healing signet should be…
Healing Signet (Cooldown: 35 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 545 (0.2*healing power) heal per sec
Healing: 8,275 (2.0*healing power)?

It should be used for its passive, its active should only be used in an emergency when you have to heal up quickly or leave the fight, otherwise it does not even serve its proper function as a signet. Signets are meant to be used for there passives, otherwise there is simply no point to having them.

That seems a big of a strong boost. Between Rune of the Dolyak (30hp/sec), Adrenal Healing (360/3sec) and your suggestion you could heal ~800-1k hp per sec. Once you consider using any invulnerable/cc/block skills you can mostly ignore every having to use the active heal.

I’ve been using a signet build since beta and while the Signet of Fury ~9% crit bonus is nice, the full adrenaline to double burst is really useful. Same with Signet of Stamina. In general the actives should be better (or unique) than the passives. But I do agree that an exception could be made for Healing Signet.

Would a better option be to just add regen to the active but maybe not reduce the cd?

I was thinking about this and it’s really tricky. As you stated, with the other signets, they have 2 clear uses. Unfortunately, in the case of your healing skill, you want it to heal, right?! So to add extra healing to the active makes the player spam it, and to have a stronger passive, influences the player to normally sit on it.

My suggestion, an unaltered Healing Signet needs to have an active with less than a 1:1 HPS ratio compared to the passive. So something like:

x = Healing Power

20sec CD
Passive: 225+.04x (.8 coefficient over 20 sec)
Active: 3600+.64x (20% reduction in the passive .8 coefficient = .64)

^That works out to be a 20% reduction in healing to activate. (Passive 4500 + .8 coefficient hp over 20 sec and 3600 + .64 coefficient when activated.) Let’s look at two examples:

0 Healing Power:
Passive 225 × 20 = 4500 over 20 sec
Active 3600 / 20 or 180 HPS
225 × .8 = 180. Check, 80% reduction

1000 Healing Power
Passive 265 × 20 = 5300 over 20 sec
Active = 4240 / 20 or 212 HPS
265 × .8 = 212. Check, 80% reduction

Next, they need to attach some utility to the activation. Although I’m tempted to suggest a defensive idea, I feel like that could cause some conflict. It could lead to, "Do I keep my higher healing to deal with getting whomped on? Or do I take a reduction in healing to gain the defensive boost? The skill, in a way, would be working against itself. I don’t really like that idea.

I think a better idea would be to give the active an offensive effect. Something like, “Cure weakness, your next 3 landed attacks have 100% crit chance and deal 5% more damage.” That would give people something to play around. Do I sit on the heal? Or can I pop it, sacrifice 20% of my healing and take this guy down before I get dpsed? Or maybe I’m not taking much damage so I take a risk losing my heal for 20 seconds so I can dish out a little more damage? Or even, this guy is about to take me down, I’m gunna pop my heal to buy myself a couple more seconds then hope my 3 crits and a small damage increase will allow me to down him or force him to go defensive.

I think that’s a lot more interesting than calculating which is stronger over time, active or passive, and sitting on or spamming the heal.

I realize there may be better ideas and different math.

These were just my thoughts.

Honestly. They should just completely remove the active portion if we are going to have this problem/argument. Signets should be used for there passive effects and the active should be an emergency that shuts down the active for awile.

Healing Signet (Cooldown: 30 seconds.)
Passive: Grants regeneration.
Active: Heal yourself.
Healing Signet: 575 heal per sec (0.15*Healing Power.)
Healing: 1150 heal per sec for 10 seconds. (0.3)?

There, now you have an emergency that is worth it. The healing should be powerful due to the lack of endurance gain and evasion and protection the warrior has.