Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s…

You didn’t read my post either. I’m looking at my post right now and I didn’t say that.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s…

You didn’t read my post either. I’m looking at my post right now and I didn’t say that.

Nvm you actually corrected it.

Adrenal Health needs to heal per adrenal strike.
Healing Signet needs to be 463 hp/s. (to be on-par with necromancer’s minion.)

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s…

You didn’t read my post either. I’m looking at my post right now and I didn’t say that.

Nvm you actually corrected it.

Adrenal Health needs to heal per adrenal strike.
Healing Signet needs to be 463 hp/s. (to be on-par with necromancer’s minion.)

Um… What? “As far as I can see:”http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend Blood Fiend regenerates HP based on the attacks it deals, not on a per-second basis. In fact, I checked all the healing skills and I did not find the number “463” anywhere.

Please cite your sources.

And besides, Healing Signet, like all signets, needs to have a good active. Right now, the active isn’t worth crap and the passive doesn’t make up for it. Heck, even Prayer to Dwayna has like double the healing of Healing Signet and no one ever uses that.

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s…

You didn’t read my post either. I’m looking at my post right now and I didn’t say that.

Nvm you actually corrected it.

Adrenal Health needs to heal per adrenal strike.
Healing Signet needs to be 463 hp/s. (to be on-par with necromancer’s minion.)

Frankly, with how you’d so quickly jump on people and accuse them of not having any experience without as little as an apology, I find it hard to even read any of your posts at all let alone take your word for any in-game facts.

Hopefully, people will take at the very least from my posts, that heavy-handed buffs to the profession’s sustain may not be the best solution here. What makes a good bunker isn’t just healing HP back faster than everyone else.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s…

You didn’t read my post either. I’m looking at my post right now and I didn’t say that.

Nvm you actually corrected it.

Adrenal Health needs to heal per adrenal strike.
Healing Signet needs to be 463 hp/s. (to be on-par with necromancer’s minion.)

Um… What? “As far as I can see:”http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend Blood Fiend regenerates HP based on the attacks it deals, not on a per-second basis. In fact, I checked all the healing skills and I did not find the number “463” anywhere.

Please cite your sources.

And besides, Healing Signet, like all signets, needs to have a good active. Right now, the active isn’t worth crap and the passive doesn’t make up for it. Heck, even Prayer to Dwayna has like double the healing of Healing Signet and no one ever uses that.

Nothing is wrong with the active if you take a look at other profession healing skills. When you have high healing power close to mending. It only needs a regen buff, like Adrenal health. Should the active have additional features than just healing? Sure that would be nice.

JonPeters.5630:

I think the passive might need to come up in non-healing builds. If I run a clerics tactics build this signet can hold its weight, but it currently has NO place in a berserker build. Not sure it should be as viable in a seeker build, but it needs to see some play in soldiers, and certainly Valk and Shaman builds. Really signets are still going to have a hard time without a stun breaker (particularly in PvP and WvW). Obviously Dolyak signet is the most likely candidate here. Our next balance patch will absolutely be looking at stun breakers and spreading them out on all professions to make more categories of utilities viable. I’ll probably post this in general later as well but this was a larger balance pass and we will likely let this meta sit a bit longer than previous ones while we work towards taking time to push more less effective builds towards viable status.

Jon

Can you go into how it holds it’s own weight? Looking at the numbers Healing Signet provides less HPS (Health Per Second) than Mending or Healing Surge (used with at least 2 bars of adrenalin).

The active is incredibly weak in terms of HPS gained and has the worst scaling of all warrior healing abilities when normalized for HPS @ .025.

The passive has a lower base healing value than either of the alternatives and scales about the same as surge (.033) and worse than mending (.04) when normalized for HPS.

Since the signet has both a lower base value and the same or worse scaling than any of the alternatives it will always return less HPS than any of the alternatives in any given time frame.

Advantages of the signet

1) It starts healing the second you take damage. The other heals require you to activate them before you start seeing any HPS this means under ideal circumstances you want to wait until your health defecit is large enough that when you activate you’re heal there won’t be any over healing. This favors the signet initially but given the amount of damage in most fights this is only adding a few seconds of effective HPS per fight.

2) It can’t be interrupted by enemy players

3) Doesn’t require any player action or thought to maximize healing.

Personally I can’t justify the loss of HPS and side benefits of the other heals (condition removal, adrenalin gain) to justify using the signet. The only use I have for Healing Signet is in WvW when activating healing skills is tricky in a lag fest (i.e. 3 way at Stonemist).

I’d rather really the passive on /Adrenal Health/ and healing signet be brought up, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Master + http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Missile_Deflection merged to make room for a new grandmaster trait that heals whenever you gain a strike of adrenaline.

Sebrent.3625:

• It being healing skill vs a utility skill would matter if we were comparing their activekittenhat healing per second is only *if you used it as soon as it came off cooldown … there are times it is ideal to use the active on your healing signet because you need a burst of healing
• Healing per second is NOT supposed to allow you to continue to take damage. It is meant to allow you to recover more quickly from taking damage. This recovery requires that you stop taking more damage
• @Daecollo: your post history is attrocious. Your “points” have already been covered. When players have to kill my Ranger pet before they kill my Ranger, then the regen my pet gets from the signet will matter.
• Warriors also have access to Adrenal Health
  • Adrenal Health gives you 125 / 240 / 360 health per second based on how much adrenaline you have.

With full adrenaline, adrenal health, and healing signet with zero healing power a warrior has 560 health per second. For a ranger to get this, they have to have a 30 points trait, a utility, regeneration, and large amount of healing power.

Heck, take a look, i made a spreadsheet for the Ranger community.

So a warrior has to take a specific heal, a 15 point trait, and have full adrenaline (which several warrior builds love to have and keep) with zero healing power in order to have more health per second than one of the most viable Ranger builds.

So why the heck are you guys complaining?

Why exactly is Jon Peters even talking about this but we’re not seeing the same for Signet of the Wild?

http://cdn.hugelol.org/i/89644.gif

Adrenal health is per 3 seconds. So that’s a huge difference in your calculations.

Anyway, I don’t understand why Jon wants to raise the base healing? If a player doesn’t put anything into healing power, then it shouldn’t be healing overly well. the buff should be in the heal power scaling, not the base.

If players really think it should have a place in a glass cannon gs build, then you’d think that would be by having a higher on activation healing and higher cd. Because honestly health regeneration doesn’t do much good if you’re running glass anyway because of the high amounts of damage you take.

Navzar.2938:

Adrenal health is per 3 seconds. So that’s a huge difference in your calculations.

Anyway, I don’t understand why Jon wants to raise the base healing? If a player doesn’t put anything into healing power, then it shouldn’t be healing overly well. the buff should be in the heal power scaling, not the base.

If players really think it should have a place in a glass cannon gs build, then you’d think that would be by having a higher on activation healing and higher cd. Because honestly health regeneration doesn’t do much good if you’re running glass anyway because of the high amounts of damage you take.

If a skill “NEEDS” a stat to be decent, then it “NEEDS” help, when you design a healing skill it should be good without any help, and be better with help.

Daecollo.9578:

If a skill “NEEDS” a stat to be decent, then it “NEEDS” help, when you design a healing skill it should be good without any help, and be better with help.

And that is the case, as per Jon’s post. It’s just that healing in and of itself doesn’t scale well which is an intrinsic problem with healing and not isolated to Healing Signet.

Even healing 400 HPS, you’re still going to die without proper mitigation tools. If you could build for healing power to get 400 HPS out of the signet, at least you’ll have some toughness or vitality to back the improved healing.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

If a skill “NEEDS” a stat to be decent, then it “NEEDS” help, when you design a healing skill it should be good without any help, and be better with help.

And that is the case, as per Jon’s post. It’s just that healing in and of itself doesn’t scale well which is an intrinsic problem with healing and not isolated to Healing Signet.

Even healing 400 HPS, you’re still going to die without proper mitigation tools. If you could build for healing power to get 400 HPS out of the signet, at least you’ll have some toughness or vitality to back the improved healing.

What does that leave for people in Soldier’s gear or Sentinel’s gear then? They are bunkers (not really without protection…) too, HP shouldn’t be the all-time stat, HP should offer a bonus, not make or break an ability.

Daecollo.9578:

What does that leave for people in Soldier’s gear or Sentinel’s gear then?

Use active healing like you do now.

I guess we’re not talking about making builds viable then. I was under the impression a healing power warrior gets very little use out of healing power. Even a shout warrior only get an extra few hundred HP going full cleric and that often requires tying up at least 2 utility slots.

I didn’t say it should NEED healing power to be decent, I said you shouldn’t expect strong heals without healing power. Right now healing power doesn’t do it’s job in improving the signet well enough, and that’s a problem. If you just increase the base and reduce the scaling further, than healing power is basically pointless. That’s saying “I want to be able to heal well without sacrificing any specs into something else.”

And once again, a passive heal will always be weak and out of place on a glass cannon.
As for someone going P/V/T or V/P/T, they’re already choosing to have high hp instead of low hp and strong heals. If they have high hp, then they should only have moderate heals.

Navzar.2938:

I didn’t say it should NEED healing power to be decent, I said you shouldn’t expect strong heals without healing power. Right now healing power doesn’t do it’s job in improving the signet well enough, and that’s a problem. If you just increase the base and reduce the scaling further, than healing power is basically pointless. That’s saying “I want to be able to heal well without sacrificing any specs into something else.”

And once again, a passive heal will always be weak and out of place on a glass cannon.
As for someone going P/V/T or V/P/T, they’re already choosing to have high hp instead of low hp and strong heals. If they have high hp, then they should only have moderate heals.

You /should/ expect strong heals without healing power, Healing power should make an already stronger heal stronger, just like toughness makes an already boon protected bunker more durable, it should be a BONUS not a REQUIREMENT.

Daecollo.9578:

Navzar.2938:

I didn’t say it should NEED healing power to be decent, I said you shouldn’t expect strong heals without healing power. Right now healing power doesn’t do it’s job in improving the signet well enough, and that’s a problem. If you just increase the base and reduce the scaling further, than healing power is basically pointless. That’s saying “I want to be able to heal well without sacrificing any specs into something else.”

And once again, a passive heal will always be weak and out of place on a glass cannon.
As for someone going P/V/T or V/P/T, they’re already choosing to have high hp instead of low hp and strong heals. If they have high hp, then they should only have moderate heals.

You /should/ expect strong heals without healing power, Healing power should make an already stronger heal stronger, just like toughness makes an already boon protected bunker more durable, it should be a BONUS not a REQUIREMENT.

Yes well as it is that healing power is barely making the passive stronger at 3.3% scaling.

Ah and I just realized that in my earlier post, I didn’t specify that I was talking about the passive base healing, not the on demand healing. The signet’s base passive heal is as good as ele’s, war just doesn’t have as good damage mitigation.

Test it out in the field before blabbing out nonsense

Navzar.2938:

Daecollo.9578:

Navzar.2938:

I didn’t say it should NEED healing power to be decent, I said you shouldn’t expect strong heals without healing power. Right now healing power doesn’t do it’s job in improving the signet well enough, and that’s a problem. If you just increase the base and reduce the scaling further, than healing power is basically pointless. That’s saying “I want to be able to heal well without sacrificing any specs into something else.”

And once again, a passive heal will always be weak and out of place on a glass cannon.
As for someone going P/V/T or V/P/T, they’re already choosing to have high hp instead of low hp and strong heals. If they have high hp, then they should only have moderate heals.

You /should/ expect strong heals without healing power, Healing power should make an already stronger heal stronger, just like toughness makes an already boon protected bunker more durable, it should be a BONUS not a REQUIREMENT.

Yes well as it is that healing power is barely making the passive stronger at 3.3% scaling.

Ah and I just realized that in my earlier post, I didn’t specify that I was talking about the passive base healing, not the on demand healing. The signet’s base passive heal is as good as ele’s, war just doesn’t have as good damage mitigation.

Excuse me… What?

The Elementalist one procs every time they’re traits proc, every time they use a spell, and every time they use a utility and every time they create a combo field or there traits proc spells… and it heals for MORE then the Warrior one…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration
SoR – Healing per cast: 202 (0.1)?
HS – Healing: 200 (0.033)? per second.

Not only DOES it heal for far more, it has 3 times better scaling in healing power. Some times Ele can cast 3-4 spells at the same time.

To make it even CLOSE to a comparison, it should be like this:
HS – Healing: 500 (0.2)? per second. (it was 600, but 500 would be moreso what it would be.)

Please come back and speak when you actually tested things out and know what your talking about.

I really hate to say this, but HS needs to either be POWERFUL or be harder to heal with, it needs to be something passively active like: Heal’s per cast Or when you gain a strike of adrenaline since we don’t cast nearly as many things as Elementalist.

Not only all that, but they can have both the active AND the passive at the same time… (It needs to be buffed to be on par to the other healing signets, and I think “Healing Per Second.” is lazy.)

Having the healing signet passive not lose its effect when it gets activated would probably make it viable without any increase to passive or active.

Julie Yann.5379:

Having the healing signet passive not lose its effect when it gets activated would probably make it viable without any increase to passive or active.

The Elementalist one heals three times more and has that feature already with a trait.

I wonder if the constant stream of ppl that come into our forums shooting down improvement ideas to the class with wrong information when they compare it to the other classes are actually arenanet play testers. It doesn’t feel like their trolling just really ignorant about the game.

Daecollo.9578:

Julie Yann.5379:

Having the healing signet passive not lose its effect when it gets activated would probably make it viable without any increase to passive or active.

The Elementalist one heals three times more and has that feature already with a trait.

Please stop comparing to other classes. They have different mechanics, play styles, and challenges. Compare it to other heals for our class.

Let refer to the chart on the previous page.

272 hps : Healing Surge w/ 3 Adrenaline: 8,440 / 31 = 272 … and fill adrenaline
221 hps : Healing Surge w/ 2 Adrenaline: 6,840 / 31 = 221 … and fill adrenaline
214 hps : Mending: 5,560 / 26 = 214 … and remove conditions
192 hps : Healing Signet w/ Trait: 3,320 / 17.25 = 192 … and 200 hps passive
190 hps : Healing Surge w/ 1 Adrenaline: 5,880 / 31 = 190 … and fill adrenaline
169 hps : Healing Surge w/ 0 Adrenaline: 5,240 / 31 = 169 … and fill adrenaline
156 hps : Healing Signet w/o Trait: 3,320 / 21.25 = 156 … and 200 hps passive

If you didn’t lose the passive when activating the signet you would get 392hps if you spammed it continuously when traited. Not only is it viable but might even be OP when compared to healing surge which is by far our best heal.

Without even gaining regen and with +0 healing power, the warrior is able to attain the same health per second as a Ranger with a 30 pt trait, signet of the wild, and regeneration with some healing power. The Ranger is almost capped in this instance for hp/sec as they already have regen, the largest source, and can only add Dolyak Runes or Food for more hp/sec. Give the warrior regen from any source and suddenly their hp/sec is beyond what the Ranger can achieve. With the new 10 points in Defense, you have a trait that gives regen. You can also get regen from banners (I’m not a fan though) and do what Rangers do … make use of armor runes … though that means you might have to give up your precious runes of Lyssa.

Listing Unguent is silly. It’s a heal that heals over 10 seconds. It isn’t always on. You might as well complain that the Ranger can heal with Heal As One.

….HHUUUGHGHHHH….

Did you just …

Did you just…really say that spamming a heal whenever it is up is /viable?/’

Tired of people coming in and trolling my threads.

Daecollo.9578:

….HHUUUGHGHHHH….

Did you just …

Did you just…really say that spamming a heal whenever it is up is /viable?/’

Tired of people coming in and trolling my threads.

I ain’t trolling your thread. I agree that HS needs some TLC. Just don’t want to make us into a Super Bunker that nobody can kill and that everyone cries about or a Glass Cannon with insane regen cause Glass Cannons should die easily, it’s a choice they made went they went glass.

Of course you only use the active when you need it and if y.ou need it several times in a row due to heavy fire (mainly WvW experience here) then by all means spam the kitten out of it. The big problem with HS is that the active sucks kitten It doesn’t burst heal enough to get you out of a trouble since it gives you less HPS than the passive so in theory you end up dying faster if you use it. If you didn’t lose the passive when activating it you would get that small burst to get you out of a jam without sacrificing your regen which would probably make it viable. Especially with a high toughness tank build with decent condition removal.

AlBundy.7851:

I wonder if the constant stream of ppl that come into our forums shooting down improvement ideas to the class with wrong information when they compare it to the other classes are actually arenanet play testers.

I wonder if the people posting in forums realized there is no ‘our’, as in they don’t own a subsection of a forum or have any more or less right to voice opinions than everyone else.

Julie Yann.5379:

Please stop comparing to other classes. They have different mechanics, play styles, and challenges. Compare it to other heals for our class.

No! Can’t you see Daecello is on his well deserved high horse?

Of course he can compare the healing capabilities of other classes against each other while disregarding the capabilities and limitations of said classes or even suggest radical ideas like nerfing a classes damage across the board to compensate for this overaching desire for him to heal better than everyone else!

How dare you walk into his forums? Get out…

so you just like being proven wrong on the forums multiple times a day?

JonPeters.5630:

I think the passive might need to come up in non-healing builds. If I run a clerics tactics build this signet can hold its weight, but it currently has NO place in a berserker build. Not sure it should be as viable in a seeker build, but it needs to see some play in soldiers, and certainly Valk and Shaman builds. Really signets are still going to have a hard time without a stun breaker (particularly in PvP and WvW). Obviously Dolyak signet is the most likely candidate here. Our next balance patch will absolutely be looking at stun breakers and spreading them out on all professions to make more categories of utilities viable. I’ll probably post this in general later as well but this was a larger balance pass and we will likely let this meta sit a bit longer than previous ones while we work towards taking time to push more less effective builds towards viable status.

Jon

That’s good thanks. I tried cleric build and Shaman build for a bunker a warrior using healing signet. It is a very situational regen combine with banner regen and it just does not keep me up as other bunkers that can manage to take on 2 or 3 enemies at a time. So I just went back to glass cannon with some toughness stats because healing power regen was not doing it for me or bunkering a node as a bunker suppose to.

AlBundy.7851:

so you just like being proven wrong on the forums multiple times a day?

They aren’t exposed to warriors much besides probably the usual glass cannon builds. If they tried to do bunkering in Tpvp rounds and maybe Spvp then they’ll see how wrong they are with this Super Bunker forgetting the fact this is a warrior. Just like a thief, but worst they can only do, but so much in combat and are first to be focus down quite easy.

Daecollo.9578:

Excuse me… What?

The Elementalist one procs every time they’re traits proc, every time they use a spell, and every time they use a utility and every time they create a combo field or there traits proc spells… and it heals for MORE then the Warrior one…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration
SoR – Healing per cast: 202 (0.1)?
HS – Healing: 200 (0.033)? per second.

Not only DOES it heal for far more, it has 3 times better scaling in healing power. Some times Ele can cast 3-4 spells at the same time.

You ought to reword yourself there. The base heal on both is almost identical, but the ele one scales better.

To make it even CLOSE to a comparison, it should be like this:
HS – Healing: 500 (0.2)? per second. (it was 600, but 500 would be moreso what it would be.)

Holy flipflopping craptack. That would allow for a full-healing Warrior to get like 848 hp/s just from that skill. Throw in Adrenal Health and it’s 968 hp/s. And that’s freaking insane. Add in some banner regeneration and you’re up to 1,315 hp/s.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Excuse me… What?

The Elementalist one procs every time they’re traits proc, every time they use a spell, and every time they use a utility and every time they create a combo field or there traits proc spells… and it heals for MORE then the Warrior one…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration
SoR – Healing per cast: 202 (0.1)?
HS – Healing: 200 (0.033)? per second.

Not only DOES it heal for far more, it has 3 times better scaling in healing power. Some times Ele can cast 3-4 spells at the same time.

You ought to reword yourself there. The base heal on both is almost identical, but the ele one scales better.

To make it even CLOSE to a comparison, it should be like this:
HS – Healing: 500 (0.2)? per second. (it was 600, but 500 would be moreso what it would be.)

Holy flipflopping craptack. That would allow for a full-healing Warrior to get like 848 hp/s just from that skill. Throw in Adrenal Health and it’s 968 hp/s. And that’s freaking insane. Add in some banner regeneration and you’re up to 1,315 hp/s.

The Ele one can be trigger more then once a second, every trait they have when they dodge roll, switch attunements, all those instant cast spells are spells. Every trait they have that procs a lot is considered a spell.

Obviously you need to learn your math buddy.
Adrenal health is 360 divided by 3 equals 120 hp/s, 120 + 500 = 620.

620 + 130 Banner Regeneration = 750.

This is Achieved by spending 30 points in vitality + 15 points in defense, which IMO is a FAIR trade off. 45 Points for Decent Survivability and no CONDITION removal.

We need and DESERVE powerful healing, because we have the highest health compared with little to no ways to remove conditions fast like other classes, and we don’t have there extra set of armor either. I’d rather trade my 18k hp for 15.2k and perma protection, then I could atleast get some decent hp/s.

3 stack of bleeds or poison can REALLY add up when you have no ways to remove conditions from constantly applying dots.

I think we all need to take a step back here and look at the bigger picture.

Out of all the threads on the Warrior subforum, JP decides to answer ONLY the one regarding one of his precious signets.

Nice.

Daecollo.9578:

The Ele one can be trigger more then once a second, every trait they have when they dodge roll, switch attunements, all those instant cast spells are spells. Every trait they have that procs a lot is considered a spell.

So what? Eles are healers, they’re supposed to heal better.

Obviously you need to learn your math buddy.
Adrenal health is 360 divided by 3 equals 120 hp/s, 120 + 500 = 620.

620 + 130 Banner Regeneration = 750.

OH please, obviously I was counting in full healing gear. Because if you’re going to add scaling, you have a requirement to look at the extreme end. If you don’t, you’re just being an ignorant fool.

Level 80 gear: 1003 healing
Runes with healing power: 165 healing
Traits: 300 healing
Food: 100 healing
Banner: 170 healing
Sigil: 250 healing
Orb: 20 healing
Total: 2,008 healing
0.2 scaling: 401.6 hp/s

500 + 401 + 120 = 1,021 hp/s

Regeneration is 130 + 0.125 scaling, for an additional 381 hp/s. Totals to 1,402 hp/s.

I would appreciate it if you did not try to tell me to learn math. I have done my share of game-related math. That and 4 years of studying math in university. I think I can handle addition and multiplication just fine.

We need and DESERVE powerful healing, because we have the highest health compared with little to no ways to remove conditions fast like other classes, and we don’t have there extra set of armor either. I’d rather trade my 18k hp for 15.2k and perma protection, then I could atleast get some decent hp/s.

Necromancers also have high hp, why aren’t you arguing that they should get 500-1.4k hp/s passive healing?

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

The Ele one can be trigger more then once a second, every trait they have when they dodge roll, switch attunements, all those instant cast spells are spells. Every trait they have that procs a lot is considered a spell.

So what? Eles are healers, they’re supposed to heal better.

Obviously you need to learn your math buddy.
Adrenal health is 360 divided by 3 equals 120 hp/s, 120 + 500 = 620.

620 + 130 Banner Regeneration = 750.

OH please, obviously I was counting in full healing gear. Because if you’re going to add scaling, you have a requirement to look at the extreme end. If you don’t, you’re just being an ignorant fool.

Level 80 gear: 1003 healing
Runes with healing power: 165 healing
Traits: 300 healing
Food: 100 healing
Banner: 170 healing
Sigil: 250 healing
Orb: 20 healing
Total: 2,008 healing
0.2 scaling: 401.6 hp/s

500 + 401 + 120 = 1,021 hp/s

Regeneration is 130 + 0.125 scaling, for an additional 381 hp/s. Totals to 1,402 hp/s.

I would appreciate it if you did not try to tell me to learn math. I have done my share of game-related math. That and 4 years of studying math in university.

We need and DESERVE powerful healing, because we have the highest health compared with little to no ways to remove conditions fast like other classes, and we don’t have there extra set of armor either. I’d rather trade my 18k hp for 15.2k and perma protection, then I could atleast get some decent hp/s.

Necromancers also have high hp, why aren’t you arguing that they should get 500-1.4k hp/s passive healing?

Necromancer’s get 110 health every time there minions hit something, 50 health every time they hit something, and another 50 health every time they critical, and 1036 health every 2 seconds from there minion hits.

They DO have high passive healing. Your argument is VERY invalid.

Also… wtf? Healing power with adrenal health…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
ITS NOT EFFECTED BY HEALING POWER AT ALL, ITS A FIXED AMOUNT. Your lack of knowledge of this classes abilities astounds me, its almost as if you /gasp/ didn’t even play the class and is trying to keep it on the low.

What you linked to me is not “math” its Theory. Also you linked food and runes all classes have access to, these hold no argument. A good theorist knows not to add things that everyone has access to when dealing with things like class balance.

Healing signet should scale better with healing power, but its passive effect should NOT be increased overall. In fact the passive effect is pretty good (if one doesn’t take into account that healing power benefits). And many combine it with adrenal health, giving together over 300 heal/s. The biggest problem is that very few people use the active effect of the healing signet. They should reduce the activation time of healing signet and buff its active effect.

Currently:
passive: 200 hp/s
active: 3275 + healing power hp, 1.25 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

My suggestion:
passive: 190 + 0.05*healing power / s
active: 4200+healing power, 0.75 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

With zero investment in healing power its passive effect would be 5% weaker than the current, but with 2000 in healing power it would heal 290/s. In the latter case it would heal 6200, which is a lot, but still less than healing burst and 2000 in healing power is a heavy investment, very few warriors would be willing to make.

Alternative suggestion: reduce the activation time of healing signet to 0.75 s and make it remove one condition.

Daecollo.9578:

Necromancer’s get 110 health every time there minions hit something, 50 health every time they hit something, and another 50 health every time they critical, and 1036 health every 2 seconds from there minion hits.

They DO have high passive healing. Your argument is VERY invalid.

Compared to how much damage they do? I mean whatever level of healing they can accomplish, surely it’s not taking into account the huge amount of damage they’re capable of!

Also… wtf? Healing power with adrenal health…

Learn to read. He’s scaling the Regeneration boon, not Adrenal Health in his addition, adding the base healing you suggested for the signet (500) plus how much it’d scale along with healing power per your suggestion (0.2 so an additional 400 with his outlined 2000 healing power meaning per your suggestions signet would heal for 500+400 = 900) then he added the HPS of adrenal health at the end (120) which equals 1020. Of course I rounded those numbers so it was simpler but yeah, stop jumping to conclusions and accusing people that they don’t play or have no knowledge. It just makes you seem like a person people shouldn’t listen to (I know I already don’t).

What you linked to me is not “math” its Theory. Also you linked food and runes all classes have access to, these hold no argument. A good theorist knows not to add things that everyone has access to when dealing with things like class balance.

He only used the food to modify healing power. Regardless, your suggestion puts you at nearly 2x the passive healing of a Ranger. Put politely, I don’t think that’s wholly needed. More improvements to traits, utilities and such to mitigate damage, as well as an improvement to healing signet’s active heal would suffice.

Deniara Devious.3948:

My suggestion:
passive: 190 + 0.05*healing power / s
active: 4200+healing power, 0.75 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

Personally, I’d double that scaling for the passive to 0.1. Might even bump the active a bit higher, maybe equal to mending but drop its scale to what the current passive is at. IMO, of course…

Daecollo.9578:

Also… wtf? Healing power with adrenal health…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
ITS NOT EFFECTED BY HEALING POWER AT ALL, ITS A FIXED AMOUNT.

I clearly said “Regeneration”, not “Adrenal Health”. Also, I used the value 130, not 120. I would expect you to know that Adrenal Health is 360 every 3 seconds, for 120 hp/s, not 130.

Your lack of knowledge of this classes abilities astounds me, its almost as if you /gasp/ didn’t even play the class and is trying to keep it on the low.

I’ll just leave you with a picture of my character with /age. You decide what that amounts to.

What you linked to me is not “math” its Theory. Also you linked food and runes all classes have access to, these hold no argument. A good theorist knows not to add things that everyone has access to when dealing with things like class balance.

A good theorist knows to compare the minimal and the maximal amounts before making decisions.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Also... wtf? Healing power with adrenal health...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
ITS NOT EFFECTED BY HEALING POWER AT ALL, ITS A FIXED AMOUNT.

I *clearly* said "Regeneration", not "Adrenal Health". Also, I used the value 130, not 120. I would expect you to know that Adrenal Health is 360 every 3 seconds, for 120 hp/s, not 130.

Your lack of knowledge of this classes abilities astounds me, its almost as if you /gasp/ didn’t even play the class and is trying to keep it on the low.

I’ll just leave you with a picture of my character with /age. You decide what that amounts to.

What you linked to me is not "math" its Theory. Also you linked food and runes all classes have access to, these hold no argument. A good theorist knows not to add things that everyone has access to when dealing with things like class balance.

A good theorist knows to compare the minimal and the maximal amounts before making decisions.

Agreed. If you don’t start with the maximum possibilities then you implement changes that are greatly enhanced but can go further then expectations... i.e 80% bonus dmg to arrow carts.... Start high and tailor it back to better balance.

Leo G.4501:

Deniara Devious.3948:

My suggestion:
passive: 190 + 0.05*healing power / s
active: 4200+healing power, 0.75 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

Personally, I’d double that scaling for the passive to 0.1. Might even bump the active a bit higher, maybe equal to mending but drop its scale to what the current passive is at. IMO, of course…

I was thinking like you did, until I did some calculations. It is possible to rank up the healing power very high e.g. using full cleric gear + 25 stacks from superior sigil of life. With your suggestions e.g. 2000 healing power would give
390 heal/s. Combine that with adrenal health and mango pie = 390+120+83= 593 heal/s. I find that a bit too much, especially considering that warrior could still dish out decent damage and can have very high armor.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Leo G.4501:

Deniara Devious.3948:

My suggestion:
passive: 190 + 0.05*healing power / s
active: 4200+healing power, 0.75 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

Personally, I’d double that scaling for the passive to 0.1. Might even bump the active a bit higher, maybe equal to mending but drop its scale to what the current passive is at. IMO, of course…

I was thinking like you did, until I did some calculations. It is possible to rank up the healing power very high e.g. using full cleric gear + 25 stacks from superior sigil of life. With your suggestions e.g. 2000 healing power would give
390 heal/s. Combine that with adrenal health and mango pie = 390+120+83= 593 heal/s. I find that a bit too much, especially considering that warrior could still dish out decent damage and can have very high armor.

In a high crit build would Mango Pie outshine Omnomberry Pie?

“Necromancer’s get 110 health every time there minions hit something, 50 health every time they hit something, and another 50 health every time they critical, and 1036 health every 2 seconds from there minion hits.

They DO have high passive healing. Your argument is VERY invalid."

Sadly when someone talk about mancer minion hitting something… All Necromancer start laughing to death. And well, it’s not passive healing cause you need to hit to gain something. Vampirism is 37 on hit and 52 on critical. You gain regen from staff which is a very slow weapon.
Necromancer don’t have any passive healing (except from food).

And as for ranger, they do need to heal their pet, Warriors don’t need to heal their sword.

Warriors have tons of strong point that ain’t used cause of GS supremacy. Most of the warriors don’t even use their “F1”. I can’t even see any other classe that are better without using their spécial skill (And don’t say “Guard” you would only shame yourself by saying it.)

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Leo G.4501:

Deniara Devious.3948:

My suggestion:
passive: 190 + 0.05*healing power / s
active: 4200+healing power, 0.75 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

Personally, I’d double that scaling for the passive to 0.1. Might even bump the active a bit higher, maybe equal to mending but drop its scale to what the current passive is at. IMO, of course…

I was thinking like you did, until I did some calculations. It is possible to rank up the healing power very high e.g. using full cleric gear + 25 stacks from superior sigil of life. With your suggestions e.g. 2000 healing power would give
390 heal/s. Combine that with adrenal health and mango pie = 390+120+83= 593 heal/s. I find that a bit too much, especially considering that warrior could still dish out decent damage and can have very high armor.

In a high crit build would Mango Pie outshine Omnomberry Pie?

No, it wouldn’t. But omnomberry berry pie and similar life steal food have 1 s internal cooldown, meaning it can life steal 341/s, assuming you get critical hits and meet that 66% chance every second. I would find it highly unrealistic that a warrior would get lucky with the random number generator every second, so let’s assume there would be a life steal every other second: around 170 life steal/s in the long run. That would happen if your attack speed is fast, e.g. it wouldn’t happen with hammer, which is otherwise really good in WvWvW. That is why you rarely see hammer warrior’s using omnomberry pie.

Correct if I am wrong, but you could even combine it with sigil of blood. Superior sigil of blood has 30% chance to trigger with critical hits and has 2 second internal cooldown. It deals 425 damage (fixed) and heals 453+0.1*healing power. Meaning that with 2000 healing power it would heal 653/trigger.

Combine all those with a vigorous shouts heal build. That would actually give pretty amazing amount of healing.

Deniara Devious.3948:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Leo G.4501:

Deniara Devious.3948:

My suggestion:
passive: 190 + 0.05*healing power / s
active: 4200+healing power, 0.75 s activation time, 20 s cooldown

Personally, I’d double that scaling for the passive to 0.1. Might even bump the active a bit higher, maybe equal to mending but drop its scale to what the current passive is at. IMO, of course…

I was thinking like you did, until I did some calculations. It is possible to rank up the healing power very high e.g. using full cleric gear + 25 stacks from superior sigil of life. With your suggestions e.g. 2000 healing power would give
390 heal/s. Combine that with adrenal health and mango pie = 390+120+83= 593 heal/s. I find that a bit too much, especially considering that warrior could still dish out decent damage and can have very high armor.

In a high crit build would Mango Pie outshine Omnomberry Pie?

No, it wouldn’t. But omnomberry berry pie and similar life steal food have 1 s internal cooldown, meaning it can life steal 341/s, assuming you get critical hits and meet that 66% chance every second. I would find it highly unrealistic that a warrior would get lucky with the random number generator every second, so let’s assume there would be a life steal every other second: around 170 life steal/s in the long run. That would happen if your attack speed is fast, e.g. it wouldn’t happen with hammer, which is otherwise really good in WvWvW. That is why you rarely see hammer warrior’s using omnomberry pie.

Correct if I am wrong, but you could even combine it with sigil of blood. Superior sigil of blood has 30% chance to trigger with critical hits and has 2 second internal cooldown. It deals 425 damage (fixed) and heals 453+0.1*healing power. Meaning that with 2000 healing power it would heal 653/trigger.

Combine all those with a vigorous shouts heal build. That would actually give pretty amazing amount of healing.

I was actually trying to do some research on a sustained build with decent incoming heals from: Omnomberry Pie, Sigil of Blood/leeching, adrenal health and inspired banners. The trick was trying to decide what to focus on. Direct damage or condition damage but since warriors don’t have enough options to multiple conditions I was leaning towards direct damage.

Direct:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|c.1n.h15.7.1n.h1m|1.1n.h15|1n.7r.1g.7r.1n.7r.1g.7r.1n.7r.1g.7r|1g.67.1n.67.1n.67.1g.67.1g.67.8c.67|0.p3a.f1.u57b.0|55.1|5x.61.6b.6f.6m|e

Cond:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.4|7.1b.h15.7.1b.h1m|c.1b.h15.c.1b.h1m|1b.719.1g.719.1b.719.1g.719.1b.719.1g.719|1g.67.1b.67.1b.67.1g.67.1g.67.8b.67|0.p35.f1.u57b.0|55.d|5x.61.6f.6b.6m|e

It was tough trying to decide if it was going to be worth trying to pick up some healing over high dmg output. I’m at, “Do I want to kill faster thus increasing my survivability or do I want to be able to take more hits and outlast my opponent.”

There is no arguing here.

So I will drop my bomb:

Healing Signet is a Healing Ability. If it remains at 200 or gets bumped down to 190 it should be utility and we should get a new heal to replace it.

As a healing ability, it should heal me significantly, especially since I have little to no control over it, unlike other signets which I can abuse traits and skills and weapon’s attacks to proc multiple times a second, I cannot with this signet. IT makes it much weaker compared to those.

Other suggestions that have been made:
1 Greatly Increase the Active. Ok, lets say we do that. Now I can just get runes that gives me 10s of regeneration or protection whenever I use my heal with a short CD. Now I can get lots of regeneration (pretty much replaces the passive.) and have a good heal! This also allows me to trait it to remove all my crippling conditions.

Verdict: Pointless, it removes the entire point of a passive heal and makes it silly.

2 Decrease Passive, make it scale better with healing power. Ok, now I am “forced” into a gear set I don’t like, what if I want to bunker or something else? What if I want to run berserkers? What if I want to run Sentinels or Soldier gear? No, I am immediately forced to wear healing power gear. Also, why don’t the other two classes with healing signets need to be forced to take healing gear to make there heal good?!

Verdict: To restricting, none of the other signets have this kind of restriction, and scale better with healing already the fact they proc more.

3 Increase passive significantly. Probably the best idea, however now we run into the problem we run with guardians/elementalists/rangers, too much bunker and too hard to kill! However… we won’t be, we don’t have passive condition removal or protection.

Verdict: A good idea, because its not restricting to any type of Warrior.

4 Change the healing signet to heal off something else, such as gaining adrenaline or using abilities. A really good idea, this makes our class a lot more active and makes us WANT to use our burst abilities instead of holding it all day.

Verdict: A good idea, Its not restrictive and does not force me into a role I don’t want to be in.

When people have balance in mind, they just don’t understand that the Warrior itself is a weak class mostly because it has no passive condition removal and no access to protection. Classes that have it ALWAYS overlook how good it is. You know how you usually remove things like poison/bleeding? We have to DEAL with it, that is a -33% to healing, its huge!

Protection is pretty much an extra set of armor, damage reduction > all.
Condition Removal every 10 seconds when you have multiple versions and curing conditions when you dodge or sneeze makes other classes have no fear over things like poison.

I HATE Poison… Its one of the reasons I refuse to run Twilight Arbor on my warrior.

Daecollo.9578:

Navzar.2938:

Daecollo.9578:

Navzar.2938:

I didn’t say it should NEED healing power to be decent, I said you shouldn’t expect strong heals without healing power. Right now healing power doesn’t do it’s job in improving the signet well enough, and that’s a problem. If you just increase the base and reduce the scaling further, than healing power is basically pointless. That’s saying “I want to be able to heal well without sacrificing any specs into something else.”

And once again, a passive heal will always be weak and out of place on a glass cannon.
As for someone going P/V/T or V/P/T, they’re already choosing to have high hp instead of low hp and strong heals. If they have high hp, then they should only have moderate heals.

You /should/ expect strong heals without healing power, Healing power should make an already stronger heal stronger, just like toughness makes an already boon protected bunker more durable, it should be a BONUS not a REQUIREMENT.

…The signet’s base passive heal is as good as ele’s, war just doesn’t have as good damage mitigation.

Excuse me… What?

The Elementalist one procs every time they’re traits proc, every time they use a spell, and every time they use a utility and every time they create a combo field or there traits proc spells… and it heals for MORE then the Warrior one…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration
SoR – Healing per cast: 202 (0.1)?
HS – Healing: 200 (0.033)? per second.

Not only DOES it heal for far more, it has 3 times better scaling in healing power. Some times Ele can cast 3-4 spells at the same time.

To make it even CLOSE to a comparison, it should be like this:
HS – Healing: 500 (0.2)? per second. (it was 600, but 500 would be moreso what it would be.)

Please come back and speak when you actually tested things out and know what your talking about.

Maybe you should take your own advice, and actually read the links you post. First of all ele healing signet is reduced by in pvp, so it’s not 202 (.1 scale), it’s 168(.08)scale. Yes it heals per cast rather than per second, but that’s not as fast as you think. Even a 1/2 sec activation skill takes a full second because of after cast delay, so spamming their fastest auto attack, they’re only getting one passive heal a second using. Of course there are a few 1/4 sec activation skills and instant cast skills which boosts this a bit, so base passive healing is around the same. You’re grossly overestimating the average amount of skills that can be used per second. Yes they can shoot multiple skills at the same time, but not continuously. Of course you’re argument about better scaling still has merit, but that’s what I’ve been talking about the whole time.
500 (.2)? As if. That base healing alone would be equal to a cleric ele’s signet of restoration and you want an additional 20% scaling on top of that? And even that you don’t think it’d be as strong? I know you think wars are weak, but overkill much?
As for the active and passive at the same time thing; yeah they can, but that’s a grandmaster trait. So you can’t really incorporate that into how strong your signet should be alone. Rather, you’d have to look towards your grandmaster traits for that.

2 Decrease Passive, make it scale better with healing power. Ok, now I am “forced” into a gear set I don’t like, what if I want to bunker or something else? What if I want to run berserkers? What if I want to run Sentinels or Soldier gear? No, I am immediately forced to wear healing power gear. Also, why don’t the other two classes with healing signets need to be forced to take healing gear to make there heal good?!

Verdict: To restricting, none of the other signets have this kind of restriction, and scale better with healing already the fact they proc more.

Why should war be the only class with strong passive healing signet without having to spec for healing power?
I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried those other classes, but they DO use heavy healing power gear or traits. If you want to run soldier’s or sentinel’s then go ahead, but both you and they won’t have over the top passive healing from a single signet, you’ll just have decent healing instead.
Run berserkers? Um hello, passive healing does nothing for a glass cannon because passive healing needs time to be effect. And a glass character won’t be getting that time while fighting.

The adrenaline idea is a nice one though, at least for making the signet more interesting.

One Word: Poison.
That is all.
If you really have played a warrior at all, you would know how much this condition alone wrecks us, no other class has as much fear as we do from it.

I agree, signets should be interesting. Adrenaline is also our class feature. We have so many traits that make us gain extra strikes, but they are useless because they are not needed. Making the signet heal off getting strikes would immediately make those traits worth it.

Sorry i’m so defensive of my main class. I just want it to get improved so I can stand toe-to-toe with other classes and not be the suck.

I under stand that can be a huge problem, but the way I see it, that’s a problem about warrior’s condition removal, not their healing. War has a hard time removing pretty any conditions besides immobilization atm.

Daecollo.9578:

One Word: Poison.

Now that is one condition wouldn’t mind having on warrior for sword weapon.

Daecollo.9578:

One Word: Poison.
That is all.
If you really have played a warrior at all, you would know how much this condition alone wrecks us, no other class has as much fear as we do from it.

Dude, how about you try speccing for Quick Breathing, grab a Warhorn and watch as all poison ever turns into Regeneration?

I agree, signets should be interesting. Adrenaline is also our class feature. We have so many traits that make us gain extra strikes, but they are useless because they are not needed. Making the signet heal off getting strikes would immediately make those traits worth it.

They’re not “needed” because most people use Greatsword, which happens to have a crappy burst skill. Rework the burst skill on Greatsword and you’ll instantly have everyone spamming bursts like they were all a bunch of happy axe mainhand Warriors.

Now that is one condition wouldn’t mind having on warrior for sword weapon.

Well that’s one way to have Final Thrust make some sense.