Guild Wars 2

Yes.

Hmm..let me count the numberof warriors in this spvp match…oh there’s just me! out of 16 people..1 warrior…

Thanatos.5102

Hey Ravnodaus, since you’re a Warrior on a competitive team would you mind helping us out here and offering some much needed advice? What are you tactics, how’s your build, what roles do you take in the tPvP, your overall experience with the profession on a competitive level?

That’s if you don’t mind sharing these info of course, thank you

I would also like to see this, its clear to me that we’re simply mindless casual sPvP scrubs and he’s a tPvP god in the presence mere mortals; destroying bunkers with his sword/sword bleed build of doom.

Varyag.3751:

Thanatos.5102

Hey Ravnodaus, since you’re a Warrior on a competitive team would you mind helping us out here and offering some much needed advice? What are you tactics, how’s your build, what roles do you take in the tPvP, your overall experience with the profession on a competitive level?

That’s if you don’t mind sharing these info of course, thank you

I would also like to see this, its clear to me that we’re simply mindless casual sPvP scrubs and he’s a tPvP god in the presence mere mortals; destroying bunkers with his sword/sword bleed build of doom.

I never once suggested to use a bleed build in tPvP. Not once.

Edit; I never suggested I was a pvp god for that matter, or that anyone else wasn’t any good. You could be freaking amazing at playing a warrior, still wouldn’t make you correct about everything, that’s an arguement to authority, and generally bad form.

Honestly mate, it sounds like you’re another class, who has briefly touched on a warrior and feels he knows it inside and out but you don’t really ever play one.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Thanatos.5102:

Did he actually delete his post while I was replying to him? Cause I dont see it and yet it appears on my quote….

Yes, it wasn’t up very long. I reread it and I was being too aggressive in my tone.

I’m not trying to get in flame wars 2012 here.

I know exactly what you wrote, and exactly why you wrote it though. If I don’t answer your “innocent” request for advice, then I’m just spouting ignorant non-sense. But if I do reply to your “innocent” request then you will proceed to flame me further. I know how internet game forums work, I’m not new here.

Ravnodaus, I honestly and most definately was not and will not flame you. I understand your concerns since most of the internet forums work this way but I would most gently request that you would share your experience on high level pvp with us. You have my word that you won’t be flammed, at least by me.

phaeris.7604:

Sword as an off hand?

Again. Possibly the worst pvp set to have going.

I forgot there was only pvp in this game. Wait… oh, you got me! And to think i had forgot about all that not-pvp stuff for a second.

Seriously, what is with you? Are you even reading what I am writing, or just skimming it looking for something negative to say?

I get it, you have a bone to pick. Go ahead I guess. But that doesn’t mean that warrior is some sad miserable profession that no one should play. Far from it. You can attack me all you wish, but that does nothing to show anyone you even have a point. You think something I said (Something I actually said) is wrong? I’m all ears. Seriously, I would rather be corrected than be wrong. But I don’t see anyone correcting me, just attacking me… and passive aggresively too. Why not explain the actual problem.

This is actually the opposite case from what you expected. Rather than waiting for flames and trolling from players who are self-proclaimed experts, you’re feeding into players with a limited scope on the battlegrounds who are practically begging for a mentorship from someone with a clue.

The devs have the metrics, not these players, they’re in no position to know the state of the class and actually argue against what’s been announced. The arguments on guildwars2guru are better than what’s here and paint a different picture as well. Until a warrior chooses to waste their time to educate them for free, which is the goal they seek in starting this diatribe, then they’re stuck pouring time into forum banter because they’ve reached their limit in game.

Endure Pain(skill): add stability. It doesn’t invalidate balanced stance, it just makes the 90 second cooldown worth it. The trait that gives endure pain is fine without stability. Besides some bar compression is sorely needed with our utility skills. Some things never leave our bars(in PvP) like bulls charge, and if they do it’s usually for a skill like this.

Vengeance: Remove death upon it ending, should go to downed state. Not all warrior builds are damage based, so why should only the damage based builds really benefit from it. What other classes “survival” skill kills them?

Shield: Reduce cool downs, 20 for shield bash, 25 for shield stance. “Shield master” grants aegis to shield bash. This adds just a small amount of utility to Shield Bash, and makes Shield the defensive weapon it should be without making it overpowered. It would also be nice to see “Shield Master” moved to adept, maybe call it “Shield Wall” or something(not being a “master” anymore).

I happen to have a warrior, on a competitive team

Sure you do. Where’s your stream. What’s your warrior tpvp win rating. You’re on TP, AC, etc? What’s your team name and how come no one has heard of your amazing warrior powers in the streaming circle?

The fact that you push sword bleed builds and longbows being viable really makes it hard to differentiate whether you’re trolling or just very very very absurdly wrong.

Edit:

I forgot there was only pvp in this game.

Nevermind just saw that you discredited yourself by basing your “points” on the parts of the game that have absolutely no bearing or meaning when it comes to balance issues.

PvE you can auto attack your way through the game successfully as long as you have your dodge key bound and use it appropriately.

In “follow the zerg” modes you can have 0 traits slotted and run with whatever ranged weapon you want and still get kills.

I don’t think I’ve met a person yet that was unhappy about their warrior in PvE. In W3 most of us can run around and have fun with the class (I think the better point spread helps here as well for stats.) In Zerg-mode pvp (SPvP) warriors can gank noobs. ANet balances around Tourney play because of the desire for ESport status so Tourney play is where balance discussions need to draw their examples from.

@Acme Tux Serum Six You clearly never played a warrior in pvp, hell even in Pve. Our burst skills rarely reach the 4 digit unless is the axe in which case if spec fully offensive and crits can deal somewhere around 4k? On a full defense around 2k? Now go to the sword, full hits some crits you get around 9xx damage. Now most of your traits and your more powerful heal becomes useless.

@Ravnodaus G.S Damage comes from Hb, HB can’t hit for kitten against any player with a brain. In PVE is a great skill in pvp no. Axe damage is pathetic even for the heavy damage dealer in the one handed side. I fought an engineer in a damage oriented build with axes, his elixir healing was laughing at my damage and couldn’t take him pass 75% hp, that is by combining with hammer CC, bullrush so on. So on. Also remember these hits are melee. So if you get kited you can’t really deal any damage, he however was just loling at my damage output right there.

Bleeds on warrior aren’t sustainable, mainly cause most of our skills that cause them are horribly design. Our auto attack puts two bleeds good, now if you want more you need to go to an off hand sword. Both off hands swords are a real pain in the kitten to use, further more going into a condition damage build that actually damages requires you to avoid pretty much every other stat, this is fine if we were a ranged condition damage class but we are not.

The over conclusion is, people discussing here don’t want the warrior to be an over power killing machine. We want the warrior to be useful and better designed. Again if you take a loot at our skills they all the same. Get might/swiftness/fury or Stability for X seconds. Now that sounds good until you see their awful cool downs, this leads the warrior to become an auto attack machine. Banners and what not simply don’t keep up with a team because they are stand still in a small area effect. And again our damage is laughable. Is not that we want to deal more melee damage than anyone, thief should stay that way, but we are predictable, low damage dealing and with no support. This combined with a stressful learning curve due to our melee having little range and long animations is what made us make this thread.

Ivanov.8914:

Wow…an afternoon passed and this thread exploded…

@Ravnodaus – you said my point wasn’t credible.But you did not say why.From what you said, it sounded like it wasn’t credible just because YOU didn’t believe it.
And yes, I know warriors are few if none?How do I know? It’s because I’m not a pro at playing a warrior, so I’m interested in how other warrs perform, so I search on the really well-known teams in their websites and streams.THAT is how I know how few warriors there are in tPvP.
Oh and, good job at trying to look and sound smart.Clown.
Edit:just went and counted most of the classes’ bugs.Here we go:
Ranger – 69, mesmer – 33, guardian – 50, engineer – 26(bug thread incomplete, realistic number can go up to 50-60). You know what this is called?Checking your facts.It’s not weird, it’s expected of you.The only 2 classes so far that really hit it with the bugs are necros and eles.So way to go in pulling “facts” from thin air, clowny boy.

Aha, so now there are “few” warriors. Because a little earlier I coulda sworn it was “no” warriors that where in competitive teams, or so it was said.

Those numbers are a simple matter of alternate list formatting. The warrior “bug” list separates things out as singularly as is even possible, many other lists group similar/same issues together. Warrior bug list also contains quite a number of non-bug issues. Like, omg, after 1 adrenaline the tooltip description for arcing slash replaces the word fury with the word might! That is such a debilitating “bug”!

Other “fun” stuff on the “bug” list.
Arcing slash(again) The description text (again, hmm..why is this listed separately?) says uppercut, in game animation is an overhead swing instead. Yep, game breaking, I know….
Rifle butt has a short range “bug”. Uhm, yeah, it does, it is a melee 130 range attack… some bug.
Impale- tooltip display error.
Riposte- tooltip display error.
Shield stance- display error.
Banner- tooltip displays 45 seconds. Skill actually lasts 90 second. Game breaker right there if I ever saw one.
Blademaster doesn’t update hero pane tooltip. This one is just debilitating, I know. (After all I’m trying to force people to wear double swords in tPvP apparently, wish that wasn’t crippled by this massive bug)
There is one in there about not being able to use HB in the middle of another skill animation time, I’m pretty sure that is normal. You can’t use multiple skills at the same time unless one of them is instant, neither HB nor Slice is instant.
There is more of the display issues, tooltip issues, etc. There are even quality of life improvement suggestions on this warrior bug list. Yes, under the title “quality of life”. You really counting those as bugs too are you, friend?

I’m not saying warrior has no bugs. They certainly do. But this list isn’t a good representation at all, because it really isn’t a list of warrior bugs… it includes more than bugs. Heck, it even includes more than just warrior stuff…

It says “Thief: The “Whirling Axe” skill has additional projectile reflection not present on the actual Warrior version (axe 5 skill).”

That…. is actually a warrior bug is it? Lol… That isn’t a warrior ability, and it certainly isn’t a bug. Why, please explain, is it included in this list of bugs you think you have?

Originally I asked what made the warrior viable/not viable. Everyone is just saying how bad the profession is instead of saying what is viable and what they want to tweak.

What do you enjoy about the warrior, and what mechanics make the profession fun?

PVE wise I enjoy the large arsenal of weapons we have, I enjoy being able to decent melee damage in dungeons and give a some support with healing shouts. I also enjoy the fast phase damage dealing curve and combination attacks of the GS.

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Varqov.6984:

Originally I asked what made the warrior viable/not viable. Everyone is just saying how bad the profession is instead of saying what is viable and what they want to tweak.

To be honest and realistic, I’m fine with most of the weapons, except the Sword with is horrible and only useful for the leap skill. Sword’s single damage condition is too easily removed in PvP, but it is not a problem with the amount of condition removal – which is fine – but instead of the sword. Hammer is probably our best weapon, even with staggering blow stopping your movement for too long.

The other two major issues I have are with physical skills and banners, there is a reason why these two aren’t as often used in PvP as stances or shouts. Once again the most glaring issue is Warrior’s lack of utility skills – even a warhorn+shout/banner Warrior is somewhat mediocre.

Compare to the other heavily armoured melee class; my Guardian. With one shout (and no soldier runes or traits spent) my Guardian can remove all conditions from my allies, giving them to myself, then I just use my skill to convert all conditions on myself to boons. Also have a group stability skill. My Guardian has also much better access to group heals, especially in elite form. After playing Guardian I began to notice how poor Warriors are for group utility.

I’m not saying we should be Guardians – we definitely shouldn’t – but some more useful utility skills or options would be nice to make Warriors desirable for group play. I would like to see more viable options in how I build my Warrior.

Varqov.6984:

What do you enjoy about the warrior, and what mechanics make the profession fun?

I like adrenaline – it was a better system in Guild Wars 1, but it’s also fun here. I like that we get a good variety of weapon options and that we’re one of the few professions with no magic theme at all. I think the idea behind banners was cool and that is what pulled me to play Warrior as my main (I was Paragon in Guild Wars 1).

Varyag.3751:

To be honest and realistic, I’m fine with most of the weapons, except the Sword with is horrible and only useful for the leap skill. Sword’s single damage condition is too easily removed in PvP, but it is not a problem with the amount of condition removal – which is fine – but instead of the sword. Hammer is probably our best weapon, even with staggering blow stopping your movement for too long.

Compare to the other heavily armoured melee class; my Guardian. With one shout (and no soldier runes or traits spent) my Guardian can remove all conditions from my allies, giving them to myself, then I just use my skill to convert all conditions on myself to boons. Also have a group stability skill. My Guardian has also much better access to group heals, especially in elite form. After playing Guardian I began to notice how poor Warriors are for group utility.

I kind of agree with the sword, the only sword skill I rely on out of the 5 plus the adrenaline skill is the leap. Everything else I don’t see much use in besides the bleed (that seems to take forever for them to bleed out). Every so often I used the throw sword on off-hand, but I never liked repartee much, I just stood there for a few seconds doing nothing. Most of the time even the PvE enemies didn’t hit me and I wasted my time.

It is sad that the guardian has so much more useful group skills available. Its like in WoW where there was this rash of paladins being tanks, choosing them over warriors because their utility skills were just better in most circumstances.

Also, you brought up a GW1 profession. I would like some of these professions to be brought back, possibly in an expansion /wink to moderator/. Another that really interested me was the Dervish.

I enjoy the wide array of weapon choices and that my passive survivability is quite decent even if I build to push my dps.

Some of the things that disappointed me most/feel like a misrepresentation of the class:

- weapon-switching: warrior is a weapon master, as such we get a trait that reduces that cooldown. However this trait is in a very lackluster trait-line (discipline) and since most (all?) ‘weapon-switch sigils’ have a 9 second SHARED cooldown anyway, it offers little advantage.
→ proposed change: lower the ‘weapon-switch’ cooldowns, or make it so they don’t share a cooldown. This is hardly unbalancing and would actually make a weapon-switch build an interesting option.

- Burst-skills: Our class mechanic, which has been quite seriously nerfed since beta. Not without reason, but what we are now left with is a system that usually favors not using burst skills to keep the passive traited effects of a full adrenaline bar.
And again: the discipline trait-line which revolves around it is quite poor.
→ proposed change: rework the entire discipline trait-line for a starter. There is so much wrong with it I don’t know where to begin; from the basic buffs (3% damage increase to my burst skill for 30 points invested?) to the top tier traits.

- Physical utilities: thematically they fit very well and the idea of more control is appealing. In practice however many of these skills are unreliable, counter-intuitive and have far too long cooldowns (that can only be reduced with a top tier trait) to build around.
→ proposed change: make the cooldown-reduction/damage-increase a master trait, change kick to a pull (why would I want to increase the distance to my target? Most of my weapons are melee and the rifle already has the same skill on #5) and perhaps add secondary effects/conditions (if traited?).

tl;dr: Our class mechanic was as I once understood it supposed to be all about burst and weapon-switching, in truth most viable builds revolve around shouts; pigeonholing an already tactically limited class even more.

Rework the discipline line, burst skills and weapon-switch sigils or give the class more access to stability/protection so we can withstand slower melee fights.

Currently, less then a third of our utilities are viable. That’s were I would start. This is basically the warrior’s entire skill list – 8 skills. If I’m leaving something off please let me know.

Bull’s Charge
Fear Me
Shake it Off
Endure Pain
Frenzy (But why is the drawback so much worse then Ranger or Thief?)
FGJ (Only when traited for heals and runed with soldier’s.)
On My Mark (Only when traited for heals and runed with soldier’s.)
Signet of Rage

I’m playing my warrior since beta now and in general I’m quite happy with him. However, I’d like to share some of my impressions. PvE is absolutely fine and even WvW makes a lot of fun as a warrior and offers a huge variety of actions (keep fights using rifle&bow; zerging using range/support build; roaming around with melee weapons). For tpvp, warriors could use some minor adjustments.

I think most of the problems around playing a warrior in its current state are caused by bad game mechanics and not by bad design of the profession itself.

To my mind, the main issue with warriors is that skills are failing. Eviscerate, Bolas or even Flurry are just some examples. This problem occurs only on moving targets and I think this issue arises from one simple fact: if you use your skill, your current location will be used by the system to check whether you are in range. However, there will be a 2nd check on your target which is done when you actually hit it. Eviscerate has a short delay; Bolas are flying trough the air etc. – this gives your opponent time to run out of range, making it hard for a warrior to use his skills effectively. Anet should try to fix this mechanic instead of doing any changes on the skills itself since the balancing seems to be fine. This changes would stop most of those frustrating moments when playing a burst/dps build which depends on the usability of those skills.

Condition builds: Maybe the traits which cause invulnerability or bleeding could be changed to apply chill or poison in order to give us more diversity in our conditions. Additionally, I’d love some changes to the sword skills. . Impale is basically a very nice skill, however the conditions are applied a little bit too slowly. Riposte in its current state does not offer any advantage against non-melee professions, this could be changed as well.

cc builds: I don’t like the delay of hammer skills since its sometimes hard to hit your opponent; however, I think the skills are very well balanced.

Last but not least, I would try to solve the support build/bunker build issues by changing banner’s mechanics. It would be much more fun playing with a banner if you wouldn’t be forced to drop your current skill bar. Additionally, it can be very hard to find your banner and pick it up while being in combat, making the mechanic very uncomfortable. Thus, I really like the idea of carrying the banner on my back. Maybe it could then replace our F1 skills with some special banner skills. This could use the same mechanics as signets or guardian’s virtues: a “pulsing” passive effect (e.g. remove 1 condition every 10 sec/remove all conditions from you; reduce condition duration by 25%/grant 3s of stability for you and your allies; weaken your foe with every 5th hit/grant 5s of protection for you). I know that this would be some major changes, but I think it would take not less time to fix the issues separately.

Again, I want to mention that warrior isn’t a bad profession right now and my suggestions aim at making it a balanced and enjoyable class for every situation. Currently, there is no profession which could fulfil these requirements, so don’t understand my post as “a warrior needs uber luv QQ”. There are several other professions which need fixes as well and this is my opinion about warriors.

@Steely
Balanced Stance, I suppose. I never use it, myself, but people swear by it.

You could have easily left off FGJ and OMM – especially OMM since most builds will just use Fear Me, FGJ and SIO.

A proper list of Warrior skills that actually are useful would look like this:

Bull’s Charge
Fear Me
Shake it Off
Endure Pain
Balanced Stance

I wouldn’t include SoR since it’s basically not an option anyway, being an elite (and the only elite, effectively.) Other skills make it onto the bar, but they’re basically just along for the ride.

Thanatos, my bad, I didn’t realize that the title of the thread was “How would you fix the warrior in sPvP?” I thought it covered all parts of the warrior and that we were all allowed to have an opinion. My many WvW 1v1 slaughters clearly don’t mean anything at all and I am inferior to your very loud mastery of the profession.

Varyag, if the warrior underperforms in sPvP, that clearly means ANet should rebuild the entire profession or at least make changes that will drastically alter it in nearly every way even in WvW and PvE. It’s ability to destroy in PvE and WvW are not part of the profession and don’t mean anything to any of the other players in the game. The only thing that matters is what you like to play.

/sarcasm off

The warrior needs tweaking and may need fixing in sPvP. It definitely needs more group support and I actually agree with some of your guys’ points. But can you make them without being jerks? The thread is about the warrior, not about the warrior in sPvP. In general (PvE/WvW/PvP as the OP clearly allows us to discuss) the warrior is one of the best professions in the game.

ANet is not going to implement any changes that drastically alter the warrior just because they need sPvP improvements and it’s not fair for you to suggest that because I’m not talking about sPvP specifically, that my opinion that it is a great profession is invalid. Don’t think I’m mad at you and please feel free to discuss the warrior in sPvP, but don’t be surprised when the 98% of players roll their eyes at you for suggesting that they are one of the game’s flawed classes.

Zonzai.2341:

Varyag, if the warrior underperforms in sPvP, that clearly means ANet should rebuild the entire profession or at least make changes that will drastically alter it in nearly every way even in WvW and PvE.

The profession doesn’t need rebuilding, simply tweaking – could you make suggestions without being a sarcastic jerk? =P

But as I’ve already stated, Anet seem to be patching/balancing with regards to sPvP foremost as they want to go the eSport route. Truthfully while I enjoy all forms of play – and especially would like to do more dungeons – I do see sPvP and more specifically tPvP (which I haven’t played much of) as the most important for balance because of it’s more organised, competitive and structured nature.

As to most of my suggestions, I made many absurd points, deliberately, in order to see how many people here are seeking actual improvements to the class or simple “I win” buttons (see posts made by Lyonell or Madtavish). The most significant changes needed are in regards to banner functionally and physical skills and this has nothing to do with sPvP specifically – these skills are largely underpowered (excepting Battle Standard, which is used mainly for the rez). Second would be a few traits that need adjusting to make more useful.

Zonzai.2341:

In general (PvE/WvW/PvP as the OP clearly allows us to discuss) the warrior is one of the best professions in the game.

Warrior is “best” at a few things, AoE’s in WvW zergs (this is arguable itself and is partially due to a bug), 100blades/frenzy on players new to sPvP and for solo farming/exploring. At best Warrior can play a very mediocre support role. There are a few professions worse off than Warrior, but overall Warrior would be on the lower end of the “best professions in the game” scale.

Steely Phil.3952:

Currently, less then a third of our utilities are viable. That’s were I would start. This is basically the warrior’s entire skill list – 8 skills. If I’m leaving something off please let me know.

Bull’s Charge
Fear Me
Shake it Off
Endure Pain
Frenzy (But why is the drawback so much worse then Ranger or Thief?)
FGJ (Only when traited for heals and runed with soldier’s.)
On My Mark (Only when traited for heals and runed with soldier’s.)
Signet of Rage

Add Balanced Stance. Apart from that you’re pretty much spot on regarding viable skills for Warriors.

I do have to point out though, that in my opinion the Warrior’s version of quickness – Frenzy – is the most balanced form. It’s one of those examples of Warrior being fine and other classes being too powerful in some aspects.

Varyag.3751:

Zonzai.2341:

Varyag, if the warrior underperforms in sPvP, that clearly means ANet should rebuild the entire profession or at least make changes that will drastically alter it in nearly every way even in WvW and PvE.

The profession doesn’t need rebuilding, simply tweaking – could you make suggestions without being a sarcastic jerk? =P

He said it needed tweaking only. Not rebuilding. He isn’t being a jerk either. There is a strong attitude in this thread that if you are not discussing tPvP only, then your opinion is irrelevant, and that simply isn’t true.

Not every skill of every profession is going to be an all star performer in PvP, but it might have a place in PvE… or WvW… and so what? That is going to happen, because they are different environments, it is natural that some will see more use in different venues.

Sword, I’m returning to it… It is an amazing bleed weapon, sustained damage weapon. Is that the absolute best option for your tPvP warrior? Probably not. Stacking just bleeds opens you up to having all your damage removed over and over with ease, effectively neutering you. But it works mighty fine in other situations where your target isn’t cleansing it right off, in these situations it does a lot of damage. So it has a place… it just doesn’t seem like many people on this thread like that concept… and I’m at a loss, personally, why that is.

No matter how much you tweak skills to make some more ‘viable" in the game setting you prefer to play in, it is going to have an effect on the game settings you don’t care as much about. If sword direct damage was to be increased, as is brought up a few times in this thread… then this weapon starts leaning into the imba side of things as it would have entirely too much dps in PvE.

That is going to be a concern for the devs, even if you personally don’t care. So any suggestions should bear that in mind. The effect of the change shouldn’t swing the skill/trait/etc into imbalance in any part of the game, otherwise it will never get implemented.

Ok guys, I get it. You love playing your warrior and other classes just don’t fit you. I agree, as I always get pulled back despite seeing its flaws. However, please go put some hard hours into another class. Realize how they have utility skills and healing skills that actually work with the playstyle of the class.

Most of our utilities are useless and leaves you struggling. Our healing abilities are downright terrible. Our best heal doesn’t even heal us for half hp and is on a 30 second cooldown. Which seems like an hour considering afterwards we still don’t have much to stay in the fight. Lets be honest about something. When you see a warrior pop Endure Pain, you already know the fight is almost over. Even funnier when you see a warrior trying to run away.

Before my questions I will say this. SPvP is a good place to balance classes. In WvW it does NOT matter what class you bring to a fight. I can auto attack all day in a zerg and as long as the other 30+ are doing their job, My AA will not be noticed. As long as every class can beat content, PvE is balanced. I’m sure Anet can balance the warrior without destroying the other 2. After all, most of the others do good in all three…

We are warriors, right?

Why am I not able to make someone bleed effectively, immobolize them, or send chills up their spine?

Why don’t we have a signet that allows us a decent heal for each attack? or an effective heal at all?

Why can’t we apply protection or retaliation properly?

Why is my ONLY useful trump card(elite) on the level of a regular skill?

Why do my shouts not debuff the enemy?

Why do most stances make such little changes in my fighting?

Why are we able to be knocked on our butts so easily?

Why are my “finishers”, powered by my adrenaline, so mediocre at best?

Why does adrenaline not affect my defense capabilities?

Why do we bring so little to the front lines of battle? Other than +1…

ARE WE WARRIORS!?

Akumu.7238:

We are warriors, right?

Why am I not able to make someone bleed effectively, immobolize them, or send chills up their spine?

Why don’t we have a signet that allows us a decent heal for each attack? or an effective heal at all?

Why can’t we apply protection or retaliation properly?

Why is my ONLY useful trump card(elite) on the level of a regular skill?

Why do my shouts not debuff the enemy?

Why do most stances make such little changes in my fighting?

Why are we able to be knocked on our butts so easily?

Why are my “finishers”, powered by my adrenaline, so mediocre at best?

Why does adrenaline not affect my defense capabilities?

Why do we bring so little to the front lines of battle? Other than +1…

ARE WE WARRIORS!?

Warriors do bleeds and immobilizes pretty well, actually. Just, conditions have their downside, ofc.

The warrior heals are pretty well balanced, the amount healed is perfectly in line with what I would expect it to be. The only one that could really be looked at is the signet heal… but signets have their own issues.

We can’t apply protection or retaliation reliably, tis true. But we can do retaliation, just not on demand, so ofc unreliably. Plus I’m pretty sure that trait is wonky sometimes.

SoR is better than a utility, if only because of duration. The boons last days. Otherwise agree with you.

On My Mark applies 10 vulnerability, and Fear Me applies fear. I think those count.

I’ve seen a lot of people harping on burst skills, and that still confuses me. They’re not bad. Some better than others, sure…but overall, most seem rather handy to have imo.

I think adrenaline is pretty much just offensive, because warriors and guardians are like two sides of a coin. The same reason we don’t have more blatant defensive stuff like aegis, protection etc. Warriors are aggressive and offensive, guardian are defensive and protective. Both heavy armor fightery types, but who approach life with different attitudes.

Ravnodaus.5130:

There is a strong attitude in this thread that if you are not discussing tPvP only, then your opinion is irrelevant, and that simply isn’t true.

The opinion is that sPvP is where balance is most important, considering the changes/nerfs that have been made to professions its clear that the developers are inclined to agree to some extent.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Not every skill of every profession is going to be an all star performer in PvP, but it might have a place in PvE… or WvW… and so what? That is going to happen, because they are different environments, it is natural that some will see more use in different venues.

My points aren’t just about sPvP and its under a third of our skills that are actually useful. Most skills should be viable in most forms of play.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Sword, I’m returning to it… It is an amazing bleed weapon, sustained damage weapon. Is that the absolute best option for your tPvP warrior? Probably not. Stacking just bleeds opens you up to having all your damage removed over and over with ease, effectively neutering you. But it works mighty fine in other situations where your target isn’t cleansing it right off, in these situations it does a lot of damage. So it has a place… it just doesn’t seem like many people on this thread like that concept… and I’m at a loss, personally, why that is.

Bleed sword is fine for solo leveling and even then it’s better to use a Greatsword as it kills trash quicker and hits more enemies. Why is sword poor at everything else? because all sword Warrior skills bring to PvE are bleeds, fair enough, you’ve pointed this out. But in group situations and events, there is likely to be more than one or two people using bleeds, therefore your bleed attacks are useless because there that 25 bleed cap means your sword is made out of cardboard.

Ravnodaus.5130:

If sword direct damage was to be increased, as is brought up a few times in this thread… then this weapon starts leaning into the imba side of things as it would have entirely too much dps in PvE.

Even if sword direct damage on one attack was increased on targets of low health, the sword would still not reach the damage potential of greatswords or axes – who aren’t limited by the 25 bleed cap for their damage. I’d actually prefer giving sword access to one other type of condition damage, probably confusion and probably on Riposte. Why confusion? Because it’s linked to condition damage.

Akumu.7238:

Why don’t we have a signet that allows us a decent heal for each attack? or an effective heal at all?

Our heals are something I consider to be fine. Apart from that a lot of your questions are worth asking.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Warriors are aggressive and offensive, guardian are defensive and protective. Both heavy armor fightery types, but who approach life with different attitudes.

I used to think like this, then I saw that the best support builds we have are more focused on minuscule heals/regeneration and condition removals – basically an inferior Guardian – than on offensive support.

@Varyag
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.

Get it yet?

While I support your right to talk about tPvP. GW2 is not tPvP. GW2 isn’t even sPvP. I can have a kittening opinion about the state of the warrior and never even play sPvP if I want to (not that I don’t). So stop being an elitist jerk.

-EDIT-

I have to apologize. I’m done with this conversation. I had enough elitism in GW1 and I’m sick of it. So I’m not-so-gracefully conceding defeat and stepping out. Your kitten is larger than mine. Congrats.

Varyag.3751:

Bleed sword is fine for solo leveling and even then it’s better to use a Greatsword as it kills trash quicker and hits more enemies. Why is sword poor at everything else? because all sword Warrior skills bring to PvE are bleeds, fair enough, you’ve pointed this out. But in group situations and events, there is likely to be more than one or two people using bleeds, therefore your bleed attacks are useless because there that 25 bleed cap means your sword is made out of cardboard.

That is the dilemma for all bleed stackers though, not a warrior specific issue. And saying that because someone else in a DE might have bleeds means bleeds are bad… would mean no one should ever use bleeds.
I ran into this problem on my ranger pre SB nerf… because I could get bleeds up to a substantial level just on my own, and for a little while on my whirling dervish of a thief spec spamming DB… that one could get almost a full 25 stack. But a dual sword warrior actually can get a full 25 stack with relative ease, so the issue is compounded even further I suppose.
In general though, a larger pool of condition options makes more sense, and allows for better synergies and even condition removal protection. We really only stack bleeds and vulnerability with any regularity, maybe some cripples and a lil weakness… but dot conditions are burning with some finesse required from longbow, and bleeds through swords or rifle.
If the trait Fast Hands simply worked all the time properly, I’d go so far as to say that that would be enough, really. Just because of how efficiently warrior can tack on the bleeds. Toss in some burning too, and you’re pretty up there with the condition dps. That one trait working right can dramatically change the way warriors are played. I know after a prolonged fight, and I’m able to make use of it finally… being able to swap weapons so quickly is a major part of my fighting, and it even makes burning through bursts more fluid if you have the adrenaline gain to keep up. Bursts every 4 or 5 seconds… I’m off topic..

Just question to warriors with swords and bleed spec. Did you go all gear to bleed or did you mix it with some power prec crit?

I’m talking about PvE now. Didn’t play much that build much in PvP
After full power tough vitality i changed to swords and Crit/bleed gear. I’m loving it. Second weapon set is Axe/warhorn. I got 47% crit damage and 40% crit chance, and about 500+ cond damage (not sure got to check). And my auto attack crits go up to 2700 damage, Rip did 4700 once but average is 3200.
Build is 20/25/25/0/0, trying to maintain at least 1600 toughness.

Ravnodaus.5130:

That is the dilemma for all bleed stackers though, not a warrior specific issue. And saying that because someone else in a DE might have bleeds means bleeds are bad… would mean no one should ever use bleeds.

Which is why most other bleed stackers can also throw other conditions down with their attacks. For example on my Thief, my dagger auto-attack does poison in addition to death blossom’s spamming bleed goodness. Ranger can do similar, especially with traps.

Traiting and gearing for condition damage in my opinion kittens a sword Warrior for anything but solo PvE. I wish it wasn’t this way, especially since I love Fiery Dragon Sword.

Ravnodaus.5130:

In general though, a larger pool of condition options makes more sense, and allows for better synergies and even condition removal protection. We really only stack bleeds and vulnerability with any regularity, maybe some cripples and a lil weakness… but dot conditions are burning with some finesse required from longbow, and bleeds through swords or rifle.

When I started my Warrior I played like this until level 80, the main issue is that Warrior has access only to two of the four damage conditions. Technically they have occasional confusion through trait that requires interrupting the enemy and it’s not significant or reliable. I don’t think Warrior should have poison, but as I’ve said, confusion – instead of bleed – on Riposte would be interesting, especially when you consider it’s almost limited to Mesmers and Engineers at the moment.

I underlined the most important part of your post, and that I think is part of the underlying issue with sword Warrior.

Zonzai.2341:

@Varyag
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.
This thread is not about tPvP.

Get it yet?

Maybe you do not speak English as first language, so I’ll repeat myself. I never said that this thread was about sPvP or tPvP, I said that it seems balancing is being based on sPvP. Most of what I want has more to do with support than it does with sPvP specifics anyway. I enjoy all types of play in this game, so grow up.

I’m prbably a bit more biased towards warrior condition in pve/wvw too, as Asuran have access to poison and confusion through racial utility skills on decent cooldowns. So an Asuran warrior does have access to all four, and it can be pretty deadly. Coupled with cripples, weakness, and vulnerability. they have a spread of conditions beig applied. Irrelevant to s/tPvP.. completely. But something to take note of if you are more of a pve/wvw guy.

I think the biggest issues about Warriors are :

1) The lack of Condition removal compared to other proffessions : Every other professions have ways to completely negate or transfer a lot of incomming conditions while the warrior is restrained to a single or two conditions every 25sec. I know there are ways to improve the condition removal but not everyone goes full shout with Sigils of Soldier. But most of important other classes can do it without the need of those specific items.

2) The conditions : Warriors are indeed able to stack a lot of durable bleeds but those are stacking way slower than the other professions in this game making a single purge from an ennemy NPC or a player a drastic loss in our DPS. Allow us to stack our bleeds faster but at reduced duration to be on par with the other professions.

3) Redundant powers : Some utility powers are doing exactly the same thing and are far to much redundant (sigils and stances in mind). Also I would like to see more utility powers that allows us to create combo fields. We are the only profession with a single way to create a combo field, all other professions have multiple ways to create those. Why not a “Fire Pot” for the physical skills?

4) Our ranged weapons : I don’t play much with the bow, but I know it isn’t such a good ranged weapon for DPS. The Riffle is OK I gues, but I don’t get it why my shots should get obstructed by walls in WvW while the arrows from a ranger or a thief just curve above the wall and hits you!

5) The Discipline tree : The passive bonus from this tree are bad, we get 3% dmg bonus on our burst skill if we spend 21 points in it. It has some amazing traits like the weapon switch reduction and it actualy takes aways the flaws of our 3 down skill, vengence. But some other traits are redundant and plain bad like the utilities. Why not make something instead that allows you to remove conditions every 2sec while using a stance? Like thiefs do when they go stealth? Also this tree should give a better damage bonus for our burst skills because right now specing in strength instead compensate both the critical damage and damage bonus from the Discipline tree. 0,5% seems reasonnable to me, allowing a total of 15% dmg increase with 30 skill points invested.

Remove the cooldown on adrenaline skills and increase the lethalty of the adrenaline but increase the cost.

This way, adrenaline gaining skills and traits will be worth a slot.

@Varyag

I came up with that question based on not having any means to properly support ourselves. We don’t have protection or an effective retaliation buff? Ok, then allow us to heal through the pain.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

It seems to me that the Warrior has lost its identity. Sure, we know what the description says. However, how many actually feel that way as you play as one?

“Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive.”

Besides our strength… What speed do we posses? We can be easily kited by the other classes or simply outran. Also, our toughness/heavy armor does little in helping us survive.

“They’re versatile in combat…”

We are versatile in combat yet we are limited to 2 weapon sets and have to trait to have a reduced weapon swap cd. 3 weapon sets might be overpowered, however having a 5sec weapon swap should be natural for us. The trait should bring us down to instant weapon swapping. The way elemental dancers are in this game, is how Warriors should have been with their weapons but with their 2 sets.

“…and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities.”

Offensive abilities must mean our weapon attacks. As half of our physical utilities bring little benefit(why would I want to push my prey away from me?). The other 2 are easily dodged. What defensive abilities do we honestly benefit from?

“Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies.”

Inspiring allies give the notion that we are good at supporting our comrades. That is very far from the case. We also have nothing to demoralize enemies either. Oh wait, sorry.

On my mark(30s cd): I can apply 10 stacks of vunerability(single target) for 12 seconds. Although it will be easily removed after about 5.

Fear me(80s cd): make nearby enemies run away for 3 seconds.

^This hardly counts as demoralizing enemies to me. All four shouts(or at least 3/4) should provide a buff to you and debuff to nearby enemies. Since Guardians are the team buffers. Banners should be for applying buffs to the group but redone to be more mobile. Make them appear on your back or something.

This way you have a choices as a Tactics Warrior. Do you want to focus on debuffing your enemies(while still providing a self buff) or provide buffs to your allies(banners).

I dont see anything wrong with my warrior. I enjoy them 22k crits from 100blades.

If you feel you rely on auto attacks then you seriously do not know how to rotate skills. Im never standing around waiting for cd’s while i auto attack.. Seems like players that think that way are those that just smash the keyboard all at once to spend the skills.

If i was to comment on any changes id mention somthing about ranges skills. Those are relyed heavly on auto attacks due to the long cd’s they have.

Besides my GS auto attack does more damage then other proffs usefull skills lol.

From reading the comments..it realy looks like you all rather have a easy button on a profession thats allready easy to use and make it easier lol.

Go reread the skills you can use to break from all stuns, to boost any stat for dps or defense. Skills to close any gap to reach a distant target.

IMO warrior is the superior profession as it should be. Only chance the other professions have vs a warrior is to keep their distance and with skills the warrior have to use..thats going to make it real hard for them to keep away lol.

sixfeetunder.6508:

I dont see anything wrong with my warrior. I enjoy them 22k crits from 100blades.

I’m sorry, I couldn’t take your post seriously after reading this. Another noob smasher that is a god around mere mortals. I sometimes play GS warrior just to see how noob someone is. Makes me chuckle every time I’m able to catch someone with it. However, I laugh less these days as more people learn to play GW2.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

I’m done creating posts about the warrior to explain its problems. Either Anet is heavily testing the warrior and see these obvious flaws, or they love the current state warrior are in.

I’m going to keep my Warrior on the battlefield, but I refuse to be blind enough to think I’m adding anything to the fight, other then +1. Holy Trinity is gone. This game is more than just a class that does damage.

edit: merged posts.

Akumu.7238:

sixfeetunder.6508:

I dont see anything wrong with my warrior. I enjoy them 22k crits from 100blades.

I’m sorry, I couldn’t take your post seriously after reading this. Another noob smasher that is a god around mere mortals. I sometimes play GS warrior just to see how noob someone is. Makes me chuckle every time I’m able to catch someone with it. However, I laugh less these days as more people learn to play GW2.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

I’m done creating posts about the warrior to explain its problems. Either Anet is heavily testing the warrior and see these obvious flaws, or they love the current state warrior are in.

I’m going to keep my Warrior on the battlefield, but I refuse to be blind enough to think I’m adding anything to the fight, other then +1. Holy Trinity is gone. This game is more than just a class that does damage.

edit: merged posts.

It really isn’t just noobs that can end up eating a quickened 100 blades to the face. Especially in a larger fight than 1v1. But even in 1v1 if you can catch someone after you get them to burn their stunbreaks, it’s game. In a sense that means you have outplayed them, I guess… but it doesn’t mean they are by default a noob.

Ravnodaus.5130:

It really isn’t just noobs that can end up eating a quickened 100 blades to the face.

I think it was more about that other guy’s comment, which was basically “100b frenzy crit = high damage therefore Warrior is fine”.

I agree with him.

After reading all new replies I think the warrior could be fixed in a very simple way:

Increase the burst damage from GS Burst/Axe burst and a tiny bit in the sword. Or better yet increase the Range from GS burst and make it apply a knock down. Rifle, hammer. Long bow and mace are fine, even if the mace could use an increase in the effective range of the skills or make the animation follow the target.

Fix the bugs with vengeance and let it auto rally you 100% of the time in PVE.

Increase the Area of effect of banners or simply allow the buff to stay on anyone who was nearby it a little longer, say 30 secs? and reduce their cool down to 1 minute.

Fix our discipline tree to give +1% burst damage per point instead of 1% per 10 points.

Switch the crit causes vulnerability for crit causes poison or allow us to use poisons in our utilities. Really I wonder why they gave those to thief when they are pretty much useless to them while for a warrior they would be heaven.

Fix the range of our skills so they can actually hit without a mayor pain in the behind.

Fix the juggernaut skill to make us have more hp and damage but take more damage in return.

Reduce the cool down of our stances along with their penalties. I say 40 seconds is more than enough for all of them.

Lyonell.1753:

Fix the bugs with vengeance and let it auto rally you 100% of the time in PVE.

I could agree with this, NPC’s aren’t going to rage because you’ve just cheapshotted them… as NPC’s are innately cheap kittens.

Lyonell.1753:

Increase the Area of effect of banners or simply allow the buff to stay on anyone who was nearby it a little longer, say 30 secs? and reduce their cool down to 1 minute.

Go try the first banner trait in Tactics tree; you’ll notice that the normal banners will stay up until roughly 5 seconds before the skills are usable again. It’s more practical to just make the kitten thing permanent on trait. That’s just a quick fix, banners still remain kinda lackluster.

Lyonell.1753:

Switch the crit causes vulnerability for crit causes poison or allow us to use poisons in our utilities. Really I wonder why they gave those to thief when they are pretty much useless to them while for a warrior they would be heaven.

Thematically it doesn’t fit the Warrior whereas it greatly suits the underhanded ambush tactics that a Thief would use.

As far as defense goes, wouldn’t Warriors benefit greatly if Healing Signet and Adrenal Regen (or w/e it’s called) did more (eg buffed)? Those two seem to represent the idea that Warriors shrug off hits thanks to their armor and willpower (read adrenaline).

Probably the best way is to keep regen low when Warriors aren’t being focused or dueling, while going up as more enemy combantants are involved. Guardians tank through various knockbacks and disruptive abilities (often through magic), so Warrior’s should tank thanks to durability?

The obvious problem is that more regen makes PvE Warriors a joke. Not that it was hard for them in the first place…

Or just make armor do more for warriors. That’d be nice.

As for offenses, no idea, although I wish Dual Swords would do more (personal preference).

For me , it’s boredom.Almost all of our skills are “bash and smash your opponent”, with the occasional condition applied(bleed, vuln, or w/e).
As was said above, this game removed the holy trinity, yet with the skills and options we have, it awfully reminds of a pure dps class that has sub-par utility skills that aren’t just worth using, and no diversity.

For a class that lacks utility, survivability and mobility. Our damage needs to make up for it- Without Quickness.

I think the banners 1-5 could use some working. The 4 and 5 are essentially not used in actual play and I think the 3 should be redone so that it gives different buffs based on the banner like the 2 skill does. I say it needs to be redone because when other professions drop their summon weapons or crates it’s like Wintersday morning but when you drop a banner everyone thinks that the weapon they have is much better than the banner, unless they have someplace far away to run too. They need something that actually provides new incentive to actually holding the banners besides some mediocre physical skills and a short recharge speed boon.

Honestly, I think a big difference would be by making the banner 3 a the boon shout as well as a blast combo and changing the 5 to an area target where you throw the flag to a new location would make banners much better. It’d be alot more fun, that’s for sure.

I also think that Warbanner’s AoE buff should be a named effect like the other banners. It seems like a break in logic that the Elite banner gives a generic boon while the lesser banners get their on specific buff effect. I also think Warbanner 5 should have a firewall skill but I know that wouldn’t fit right.

Reduce 50% damage from invisible, summon, phantasm, illusion, avatar & pets.

kitten? Is this thread serious? Warriors are the strongest class in GW2 xDD, don’t believe me? Pick any other class and see which one is better. I’m sure warrior will come on top every single time.

I would want adrenaline which is our key mechanic,
to play a more important role, especially since armor
doesn’t do much, and I find we(warriors) are more
fighting Conan style, forced to run around in heavy armor.

I would like to see more adrenaline efficiency like Adrenaline health,
it doesn’t heal much though, here are my ideas for improvement,
involving adrenaline (now where the skills/traits should be placed
I will leave to you and ANet):
If you do not have a full bar, leave that adrenaline in that bar alone.

Maybe 3 different kind of (burst) attacks F1, F2 and F3
F1 uses 1 stage, F2 uses 2 stages and F3 uses all 3 stages.
To have some adrenaline management, which I feel is needed.

Adrenaline health(re-done): Heal 1% of full health on stage 1, each second.
Heal 2% of full health on stage 2, each second.
Heal 5% of full health on stage 3, each second.
Remember while maintaining the adrenaline, you can’t
use you your burst skills, thus I want to have some numbers
that make it worth NOT using your burst skills.

Furious defense: Each stage of adrenaline provides 5% or 10% damage reduction.
Remember while maintaining the adrenaline, you can’t
use you your burst skills, thus I want to have some numbers
that make it worth NOT using your burst skills.

We got a ‘forced’ trait for not having full endurance bars, maybe an endurance
thing like, Speed or roll: With a full endurance bar move 10% faster, stacks with
any other speed buff/trait.

I play all classes, pve, haven’t done much pvp. But i do believe that “crying” for warriors is strange. I understand that many skills are usless, and many things need to be fixed, but some things i see you asking are maybe too much. For example, why frenzy is not the same as thieves’ and rangers’? Because W are heavy armor, high hp, at least good dps,so they need to give a bit more. A chance to negate incoming attacks? Heal is bad? Comparison with guardian? You say you don’t want a W to be G, but …. And i dont mean to focus on one coment, sry about that, but too many things are said. From what i’ve read W has problems in some pvp aspects, but from my experience W is maybe the “easiest” class, high dps, high survivability, deefinetelly not the worse downed, and i never expected from a W to have as many “tricks” as a thief or a mesmer, or any class.
Just saying that many coments feel more like “gimme an i win botton”, that a suggestion. I mean if W have a 3secs or more immob., while in the highest armor, and with the highest hp, and maybe immune to cc, so they can unleash a ton of dmg, that would be a bit too much, no? But i don’t pvp, so my opinion is maybe worthless…..

In this thread, all hell broke loose…

1.) Give Warrior an F2 which can have either Bulls Charge or Bola. This wouldn’t be too broken.

2.) 30 Points into Vitality trait should allow both shouts and banners to heal/regen. This wouldn’t be broken because then the only protection that Warrior would have is from Rune of Earth to compliment all of that healing.

Right now though, adrenaline shouldn’t deplete at all WHEN INACTIVE FROM COMBAT. Also, FAST HANDS needs to be fixed ASAP.