Guild Wars 2

Im getting sick of all the moaning, complaining and downright wrongness in the accusations on the forums. Im hoping for some real warriors (pre launch, since launch, massive hours logged ect ect) to come forwards and help us settle some myths that these “OP” calling witchhunters are so quick to call upon.
As a warrior with over 1.5k hours logged I would like to discuss the issue of warriors control. many people complain about warriors having too much control on the hammer so lets break down the hammer a bit.
1- AA: weak auto attack without any special effects or condies
2-fierce blow: heavy hitting ability with a narrow but long cone for a melee
3-hammer shock: AOE cripple low damage
4-staggering blow: nerfed damage, knockback
5-backbreaker: extremely telegraphed high damage SINGLE TARGET knock down
f1-Earthshaker: moderate damage highly telegraphed AOE stun.

The basic combo for starting in melee range is a 5 2 4 f1 swap. This combo is one of the highest damaging but hardest to pull off combos IN THE GAME! Relying on a 1 second cast time only a moron or a really unlucky sob will get hit by it and its on a 24 second CD due to 5. This combo can be broken at any time with stability, a stunbreak dodgeroll (or just back up) a fear or a blind.
Lets look at the basic combos for initiating with earthshaker from range…
f1 2 4 5 swap or f1 5 2 4 swap (the second one is mostly improvisation if something is on cooldown and need to buy some more time)
both these combos rely on hitting earthshaker because you cannot sustain the following abilities without hitting the initial stun.
Lets talk about earthshaker. Earthshaker is not the super OP ability you think it is. It is plagued with bugs and unresponsiveness. from max range a mobile opponent can effectively juke earthshaker by walking in circles (which is quite comical) due to its slow cast time and buggy leap. after releasing the cast of ES (as I will be calling it from now on) there can be an upwards of 1/4 or even 1/2 second before it casts and then there is travel time to take into account. ES also has a tendency to teleport you backwards and blast mid air often which means a lost burst and no condi removal.

if ES misses you clear no conditions, you go straight to jail and dont pass go dont pick up $200. This is true with blinds, blocks (im rather certain but not 100% if someone has info on this please let me know) and invulns. yes earthshaker is on a 7.5 second CD if you have 30 in disc but its major damage comes from the combos which are locked to a CD of 9 seconds for the ES and fierce blow combo and 24 seconds for your full combo chain.

Obviously offhands play a big role in the hammer because it is a rather incomplete weapon. The choices are vast but the most common I see are sword/x ham, hambow and hammer GS.
Lets start with hambow. Hambow is considered most OP because it has snares which allow hammers combos I told you about earlier to be undodgeable. UNLESSSSS of course you dodge the snare. Yes the snare is on a much faster cast time then any of the hammers abilities its still possible to dodge, block or even cleanse. bow f1 has been nerfed and no longer deals significant damage leaving combustive shot, a highly telegraphed slow moving projectile to be the only other source of damage on the bow.
hambow counter is l2dodge.
next s/x ham. not much can be said about this as i am no fan. i find its damage weak and despite the long snare still easy to dodge its burst. Pay attention to the positioning of the warrior and the timing of their last burst to escape the snare into backbreaker combo.
ham gs is tricky because they can be slippery, deal heavy damage if you arent ready for them and escape. however it leaves you with no snares and therefore a timed dodge renders the combo useless. watch out for earthshaker into 100blades/ww cancel as it can deal heavy damage.

I have just explained every single one of hammers weak aspects as well as the playstyles of some of the most well known meta builds. Please before you complain about warriors read how to counter their EXTREMELY TELEGRAPHED and easily counterable gameplay.
Once again I invite any veteran warriors to share other points on how warriors are not the 30 30 30 30 30 hamaxebowgs s/x everyone thinks they are

Your “serious discussion” seems to be another angry defense of hammer post.

So you want to know why hammer is OP? In PvE flat out it isn’t. In WvW debatable as you have lots of running room and unless the warrior has a sword they are slower with hammer (but not slower than most classes). Either way the combo cc skills are some what easy to avoid.

In Spvp where you have to stand on a point to contest it, and the warrior who you can not toe to toe has so much sustained healing (HS) he’s like bunker to down, happens to have a a Long bow as well where he can cover the entire point with a fire field that will burn you also happens have an aoe stun that can cover the point as well as strong condi removal (mostly due to the bow) then yes the hammer feels a bit OP.

Hammer really isn’t the issue. It’s all the other things.

TheGuy.3568:

Your “serious discussion” seems to be another angry defense of hammer post.

So you want to know why hammer is OP? In PvE flat out it isn’t. In WvW debatable as you have lots of running room and unless the warrior has a sword they are slower with hammer (but not slower than most classes). Either way the combo cc skills are some what easy to avoid.

In Spvp where you have to stand on a point to contest it, and the warrior who you can not toe to toe has so much sustained healing (HS) he’s like bunker to down, happens to have a a Long bow as well where he can cover the entire point with a fire field that will burn you also happens have an aoe stun that can cover the point as well as strong condi removal (mostly due to the bow) then yes the hammer feels a bit OP.

Hammer really isn’t the issue. It’s all the other things.

then people shouldnt be complaining about hammer, but they do. My defense is on hammers. I welcomed real warriors (obviously not you) to explain their defenses on aspects of the warrior they get hate on for. IE healsig, maceGS and s/s lb builds and so on. If you think hambow is the best point assault build you are sadly sadly mistaken and most likely an flavor of the monther yourself.

Epic.3950:

TheGuy.3568:

Your “serious discussion” seems to be another angry defense of hammer post.

So you want to know why hammer is OP? In PvE flat out it isn’t. In WvW debatable as you have lots of running room and unless the warrior has a sword they are slower with hammer (but not slower than most classes). Either way the combo cc skills are some what easy to avoid.

In Spvp where you have to stand on a point to contest it, and the warrior who you can not toe to toe has so much sustained healing (HS) he’s like bunker to down, happens to have a a Long bow as well where he can cover the entire point with a fire field that will burn you also happens have an aoe stun that can cover the point as well as strong condi removal (mostly due to the bow) then yes the hammer feels a bit OP.

Hammer really isn’t the issue. It’s all the other things.

then people shouldnt be complaining about hammer, but they do. My defense is on hammers. I welcomed real warriors (obviously not you) to explain their defenses on aspects of the warrior they get hate on for. IE healsig, maceGS and s/s lb builds and so on

look kid I have been playing the game well over a year now and have leveled every class (save Necro) to 80. That real warrior fake warrior bs is just stupid. You write up some angry post defending a weapon no one really gives to kittens about in a forum where the only people who are going to read it are people who play the same class. How bout you put this same post in the spvp forums and see the response you get? You didn’t come here to discuss a thing. You wanted to defend your build and now you have. Move on. You wrote a bait worth post where only players you deem as real warriors can post.

Let me say this clearly. Hammer is hammer and won’t be changed anytime soon so move on.

BTW people kitten about every build you can think of on every class. And they have every right to do this. Just because you heard a complaint doesn’t mean you absolutely need to post.

If you ever really wan’t to discuss build countering your going to need to know more than one class. Your going to need to construct a post that explains how each class counters hammer. Drop the sarcasm and take the time to craft a post that reflects the importance of the topic in your eyes. Given the way you chose to word your Op you got bored and felt like ranting. that isn’t good enough to have a discussion.

Take the time to read, put your emotions aside, and see the big picture.

No need for further discussion our conversation is over.

TheGuy.3568:

Epic.3950:

TheGuy.3568:

Your “serious discussion” seems to be another angry defense of hammer post.

So you want to know why hammer is OP? In PvE flat out it isn’t. In WvW debatable as you have lots of running room and unless the warrior has a sword they are slower with hammer (but not slower than most classes). Either way the combo cc skills are some what easy to avoid.

In Spvp where you have to stand on a point to contest it, and the warrior who you can not toe to toe has so much sustained healing (HS) he’s like bunker to down, happens to have a a Long bow as well where he can cover the entire point with a fire field that will burn you also happens have an aoe stun that can cover the point as well as strong condi removal (mostly due to the bow) then yes the hammer feels a bit OP.

Hammer really isn’t the issue. It’s all the other things.

then people shouldnt be complaining about hammer, but they do. My defense is on hammers. I welcomed real warriors (obviously not you) to explain their defenses on aspects of the warrior they get hate on for. IE healsig, maceGS and s/s lb builds and so on

look kid I have been playing the game well over a year now and have leveled every class (save Necro) to 80. That real warrior fake warrior bs is just stupid. You write up some angry post defending a weapon no one really gives to kittens about in a forum where the only people who are going to read it are people who play the same class. How bout you put this same post in the spvp forums and see the response you get? You didn’t come here to discuss a thing. You wanted to defend your build and now you have. Move on. You wrote a bait worth post where only players you deem as real warriors can post.

Let me say this clearly. Hammer is hammer and won’t be changed anytime soon so move on.

BTW people kitten about every build you can think of on every class. And they have every right to do this. Just because you heard a complaint doesn’t mean you absolutely need to post.

If you ever really wan’t to discuss build countering your going to need to know more than one class. Your going to need to construct a post that explains how each class counters hammer. Drop the sarcasm and take the time to craft a post that reflects the importance of the topic in your eyes. Given the way you chose to word your Op you got bored and felt like ranting. that isn’t good enough to have a discussion.

Take the time to read, put your emotions aside, and see the big picture.

No need for further discussion our conversation is over.

oh yay you agree hammer wont be changed good we are on the same page. save the hambow is OP bs cause it is pretty bad. I have read your posts even when warrior was underpowered as hell and I cant take you serious now so you lost all my respect.

Ignore this fool and lets get back on topic. disproving myths about the warrior and its illusive 30 30 30 30 30 build

Epic.3950:

healsig

I wanted Heal Sig nerfed a long time ago because I hate passive play, personally (something like lower the base HPS and increase the way it scales with Healing Power.) But if you find yourself against someone with semi-decent Poison uptime you essentially have no heal anymore. Sigil of Doom is surprisingly good at keeping Poison up unless the Warrior has a lot of self-cleansing. If they do then they’ve already made the choice to be more survival than offense.

Furthermore, many many classes have the ability to heal to full when you aren’t putting on sufficient pressure. Elementalist, Thief, Guardian, and Mesmer come to mind. If I let them away from me for too long I’ve essentially let them reset the fight. I think it’s somewhat reasonable for Warriors to be able to regen if they aren’t being attacked.

Honestly that’s one of my favorite parts about Healing Signet: it keeps people from kiting me for too long because they know the longer they’re not hitting me the more HP I’m gaining.

But yeah, Healing Signet is a little too effective for my tastes but it’s not nearly as OP as people claim it is. People need to accept the fact that sometimes you need to do some counter-play. And Poison is a pretty ridiculous counter-play.

Epic.3950:

maceGS

Skull Cracker has been nerfed to have a 1/2 second cast time with a flashing animation (like the Ogres in PvE world.) It’s very difficult to land and if the Warrior does land it he deserves the free hits. That’s kind of the entire point of stuns (unless you use them defensively.)

Because of the longer cast time on Skull Crack it’s much easier to dodge or prevent. Often times unless there is some setup CC the target will be just out of range if they’re moving away from you. Or they can dodge, blind, aegis, etcetera. A Warrior should not find himself landing Skull Crack every time unless they’re up against someone who does not know the Warrior tells.

Most classes have some kind of get out of jail card for when they get stunned anyhow, so even if the Skull Cracker lands there’s no guarantee the damage will work. A Warrior against a skilled foe will have to land probably 2 Skull Crackers over the course of 20-30 seconds if he actually wants to do the Hundred Blades in order to catch his opponent when they have no cooldowns left.

Epic.3950:

s/s lb

I can’t comment on this one because I have never been able to run a Condi Warrior build. They’re a disgrace to our name, imo. :P

. . . . . .

I post this just about every time I talk about Warrior balance because this is my stance on Warriors: they are an extremely newbie-friendly class to play now and they are quite difficult for newer players to counter. But in higher skill levels it takes much more effort for a Warrior to be effective. Once you learn how to counter Warriors they are far less scary.

I don’t have a lot of experience playing warrior but see way too many of them in PvP. And what I will contribute is that many of the defenses of the stun playstyle are based on ‘telegraphing’ and stunbreaks, both of which really only apply in 1v1 situations.

I can deal with a hambow warrior just fine if it’s only 1 of them. The problem is that this class is now seen as such a ‘no brainer’ that you routinely run into teams with more than 1. They can very quickly overwhelm anyone, leaving you just standing there like a fool waiting to die.

I’m sure there are other classes where that is also true. But there aren’t other classes with the same combination of high defense, high HP, high regen, high CC and high damage.

Qaelyn.7612:

I can deal with a hambow warrior just fine if it’s only 1 of them. The problem is that this class is now seen as such a ‘no brainer’ that you routinely run into teams with more than 1. They can very quickly overwhelm anyone, leaving you just standing there like a fool waiting to die.

The game isn’t balanced around hotjoin lol.

Flissy.4093:

The game isn’t balanced around hotjoin lol.

Nor is it balanced around WvW roaming builds.

I wish more people would realize that. :P

This game isnt balanced around anything.
There are no roles, no scissors , no paper just a bunch of rocks.

I wish people would finally realize that …

Qaelyn.7612:

But there aren’t other classes with the same combination of high defense, high HP, high regen, high CC and high damage.

Warrior damage has been NERFED since the launch of the game. Seriously GO BACK AND LOOK. Anet has nerfed warriors DPS potential with the quickness change, leg specialist nerf, amongst other changes, and actually nerfing the damage numbers on skills. The warrior having high defense with high hp? GO COMPLAIN ABOUT NECRO HP! They have twice the hp of a warrior (yes thats right death shroud is basically another hp). With great damage and decent mobility and everything a warrior has.

Seriously warrior damage? Its atrocious compared to what it use to be. There regen has only increased because of trait effectiveness, healing signet being buffed to actually being viable instead of Healing Surge all day everyday.

Hammer auto does nothing really other than to serve a purpose to build adrenaline.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Warrior damage has been NERFED since the launch of the game. Seriously GO BACK AND LOOK. Anet has nerfed warriors DPS potential with the quickness change, leg specialist nerf, amongst other changes, and actually nerfing the damage numbers on skills. The warrior having high defense with high hp? GO COMPLAIN ABOUT NECRO HP! They have twice the hp of a warrior (yes thats right death shroud is basically another hp). With great damage and decent mobility and everything a warrior has.

Seriously warrior damage? Its atrocious compared to what it use to be. There regen has only increased because of trait effectiveness, healing signet being buffed to actually being viable instead of Healing Surge all day everyday.

Hammer auto does nothing really other than to serve a purpose to build adrenaline.

I’ve mained a necromancer since day one. I just want to point out that necromancer damage, while isn’t terrible, is still utterly lack luster in comparison to a warriors damage output. From a PVE perspective, Hundred Blades alone puts out far more damage than a necromancer can in the same time span, and the longer the fight continues (because HB is only a 7 second CD, WTF?), that damage gap only increases. Yes, Life Blast can crit pretty hard, but its nothing compared to cleaving 3 things with HB. You wonder why you see LFGs that say berserk wars only? This skill, plus the fact a warrior can stack might like a champ, buff his party’s damage output with banners, and still boast ridiculous survivability in the form of that Healing Signet and high HP pool.

I’m not dismissing necromancers as terrible, far from it. They hold their own quite well, but its really short sighted to call Death Shroud a second life pool when its very mechanic is whats holding the class’s potential back. As far as survivability goes? Necromancers are not that good at it. They’re pretty terrible at surviving compared to thief, warrior (post Healing Signet buff), mesmer, and ele. High HP with no skills to block/dodge/avoid/absorb/regenerate incoming damage is meaningless. I can live practically forever with my warrior because of the GS/Sword mobility. My necro? If I get caught by more than 2-3 people, I’m dead. No exceptions.

I need to point out that your statement about necromancers having any kind of mobility is flat out wrong. Necromancers have ZERO mobility, and ANet has not given them anything meaningful to compensate for this lack of mobility. To be quite honest? Necromancer should have gotten the warriors Healing Signet. It actually fits the necromancer theme, but instead we get that kittenty Signet of Vamprism.

Flissy.4093:

Qaelyn.7612:

I can deal with a hambow warrior just fine if it’s only 1 of them. The problem is that this class is now seen as such a ‘no brainer’ that you routinely run into teams with more than 1. They can very quickly overwhelm anyone, leaving you just standing there like a fool waiting to die.

The game isn’t balanced around hotjoin lol.

Go play Solo Queue tourneys. Every other team will have 3 warriors and two other random classes. This isn’t just hotjoin crazy occurrences.

Face it. Warrior is the most face-roll, forgiving class. Such a high-reward for low-risk gameplay, it’s no wonder 3/5 people that run by on my screen are a Warrior. Probably couldn’t handle the thought processing the other classes require, would rather just take the easy route.

Kravick.4906:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Warrior damage has been NERFED since the launch of the game. Seriously GO BACK AND LOOK. Anet has nerfed warriors DPS potential with the quickness change, leg specialist nerf, amongst other changes, and actually nerfing the damage numbers on skills. The warrior having high defense with high hp? GO COMPLAIN ABOUT NECRO HP! They have twice the hp of a warrior (yes thats right death shroud is basically another hp). With great damage and decent mobility and everything a warrior has.

Seriously warrior damage? Its atrocious compared to what it use to be. There regen has only increased because of trait effectiveness, healing signet being buffed to actually being viable instead of Healing Surge all day everyday.

Hammer auto does nothing really other than to serve a purpose to build adrenaline.

I’ve mained a necromancer since day one. I just want to point out that necromancer damage, while isn’t terrible, is still utterly lack luster in comparison to a warriors damage output. From a PVE perspective, Hundred Blades alone puts out far more damage than a necromancer can in the same time span, and the longer the fight continues (because HB is only a 7 second CD, WTF?), that damage gap only increases. Yes, Life Blast can crit pretty hard, but its nothing compared to cleaving 3 things with HB. You wonder why you see LFGs that say berserk wars only? This skill, plus the fact a warrior can stack might like a champ, buff his party’s damage output with banners, and still boast ridiculous survivability in the form of that Healing Signet and high HP pool.

I’m not dismissing necromancers as terrible, far from it. They hold their own quite well, but its really short sighted to call Death Shroud a second life pool when its very mechanic is whats holding the class’s potential back. As far as survivability goes? Necromancers are not that good at it. They’re pretty terrible at surviving compared to thief, warrior (post Healing Signet buff), mesmer, and ele. High HP with no skills to block/dodge/avoid/absorb/regenerate incoming damage is meaningless. I can live practically forever with my warrior because of the GS/Sword mobility. My necro? If I get caught by more than 2-3 people, I’m dead. No exceptions.

I need to point out that your statement about necromancers having any kind of mobility is flat out wrong. Necromancers have ZERO mobility, and ANet has not given them anything meaningful to compensate for this lack of mobility. To be quite honest? Necromancer should have gotten the warriors Healing Signet. It actually fits the necromancer theme, but instead we get that kittenty Signet of Vamprism.

Actually Signet of Vampirsm fits the necros theme better than healing signet. They are after all about DEATH AND UNDEAD. Necros not having mobility? There is nothing stopping you from taking a warhorn and swapping it out unless you’re in PvP and playing a room with locked traits, weapons and skills. Granted it’s kitten but it’s better than nothing.

Necros have far more party support ability than warrior does in anyway shape or form. Warriors party support is either shouts or banners and a fire field here or there courtesy of a burst skill. Might stacking? Other classes do it better and more easily unless you’re talking about the greatsword trait and that only effects the wielder.

Also don’t complain about a bad mechanic. Necros have 1 of the better class mechanics. Sure it’s not the greatest but hell look at rangers. Pets have and always will be a useless nuisance to the ranger in this game. They took the concept of the ranger in gw1 and turned it into a beast master that is either forced to spec into the pet so it doesn’t die in kittens or completely ignore it.

Play to the strengths of the class and not to cover your weaknesses of them.

Also if you’re using a greatsword sword/warhorn on a warrior. The only thing you’re killing is NPC’s and not actual players and even then if you’re doing that in WvW you should be switching out that sword for something that gives more raw damage.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Actually Signet of Vampirsm fits the necros theme better than healing signet. They are after all about DEATH AND UNDEAD. Necros not having mobility? There is nothing stopping you from taking a warhorn and swapping it out unless you’re in PvP and playing a room with locked traits, weapons and skills. Granted it’s kitten but it’s better than nothing.

Necros have far more party support ability than warrior does in anyway shape or form. Warriors party support is either shouts or banners and a fire field here or there courtesy of a burst skill. Might stacking? Other classes do it better and more easily unless you’re talking about the greatsword trait and that only effects the wielder.

Also don’t complain about a bad mechanic. Necros have 1 of the better class mechanics. Sure it’s not the greatest but hell look at rangers. Pets have and always will be a useless nuisance to the ranger in this game. They took the concept of the ranger in gw1 and turned it into a beast master that is either forced to spec into the pet so it doesn’t die in kittens or completely ignore it.

Play to the strengths of the class and not to cover your weaknesses of them.

Also if you’re using a greatsword sword/warhorn on a warrior. The only thing you’re killing is NPC’s and not actual players and even then if you’re doing that in WvW you should be switching out that sword for something that gives more raw damage.

I’m guessing you don’t, or haven’t play a necromancer longer than a few hours. But hey, grass is always greener syndrome I suppose.

Mechanically, for this game at least, leeching is laughably broken. It doesn’t scale, it doesn’t work, and ANet is afraid to decouple the damage/healing portion of the effect so that it can actually be viable.

Party support? Are you kidding me? WHAT party support? Our skills are designed or function in such a way that people are trained to avoid what we do to support our party. See a big black well on the ground? 95% of the people will literally dodge roll OUT of it simply because the effects are so similar that people can’t tell at a glance which Well is which. And besides all that, it pales in comparison to simple just slotting every person in the party with a berserk war and just plowing your face through a dungeon. As I said before, there is a reason you see LFGs advertising berserker warriors only. Necromancers have NO cleave weapons. At all.

The class mechanic is… still pretty bad. Its good if you trait specifically to use it, but otherwise all it does is prolong the inevitable. Its designed extremely poorly in that DS only scales with power builds, and the class is a condition class. Does that make any sense to you? Oh, yes, Tormented Shackles, the skill where ANet said we’d have the most access to Torment… except we don’t. Thieves, Mesmers, hell, even warriors stack torment better than we do on skills with lower CDs (5+ stacks with 10 second CDs vs 3 stacks at 40 second CD). You also seem to be unaware of the recently introduced bug (or maybe its a feature now since they did the same with Putrid Mark, yay for stealth nerfs disguised as bugs!) where we are literally locked out of every skill for 1-2 seconds on dropping DS. Our normal HP bar is vulnerable, but we can’t cast anything. Are you starting to see the flaws yet, or are you still thinking warriors aren’t doing everything a necromancer does but better?

Swiftness is not mobility. Its a speed buff. Everyone has that in some form or another. Mobility is GS Whirlwind, Sword Leap, Bull’s Rush, GS Charge. Ever try to catch a warrior that doesn’t want to be caught? Yeah, I’m talking about that. Its impossible for necromancers to run unless they have Spectral Walk slotted and standing next to a cliff.

connieboy.9840:

Flissy.4093:

Qaelyn.7612:

I can deal with a hambow warrior just fine if it’s only 1 of them. The problem is that this class is now seen as such a ‘no brainer’ that you routinely run into teams with more than 1. They can very quickly overwhelm anyone, leaving you just standing there like a fool waiting to die.

The game isn’t balanced around hotjoin lol.

Go play Solo Queue tourneys. Every other team will have 3 warriors and two other random classes. This isn’t just hotjoin crazy occurrences.

I solo/team que all the time and on average I see one to three warriors combined within both teams.

Necromancers are more common from experience. Mesmers Guards, Rangers and Warriors are about equally prevalent. So your assertion is incorrect.

Welcome to the broken record club where you repeat the same thing over and over. Fact of the matter, Anet isn’t going to balance things based on what bads post in the subforum. If warrior needs nerfed, they will nerf it. But it will have nothing to do with what you, or many other players have to say about the class. You’re wasting your time. Less wasting your life away complaining about imbalance; more playing the game.

Thanks and have a good day.

Flissy.4093:

Qaelyn.7612:

I can deal with a hambow warrior just fine if it’s only 1 of them. The problem is that this class is now seen as such a ‘no brainer’ that you routinely run into teams with more than 1. They can very quickly overwhelm anyone, leaving you just standing there like a fool waiting to die.

The game isn’t balanced around hotjoin lol.

I used the word “team”.

I did not use the word “hotjoin”.

I’m honestly not trying to be a pain here, so please bear with me. I take it from your post OP that you are one of those long time since beta weekend War for life players, and that’s fine. I’m speaking as someone who has logged a tons of hours as every class with all of them (save one) at level 80 with lots of time in both PvE and WvW. I main Guard, so this will be from that perspective, but I can say with some clarity that I have experienced this with my other toons as well (even my War).

In WvW, I have found myself on more than one occasion running along and found myself facing down with a hambow or hammer/mace+shield warrior. In each of those fights those warriors overcame my aegis, dodges and stunbreakers with enough CC to keep me from effectively healing or escaping the fight. It didn’t matter that they didn’t put out a TON of damage in 2 seconds flat. They didn’t need to. All they had to do was keep rooting and interrupting me and i was dead. In the few fights that the war was new and still didn’t know what they were doing they were still able to out strip all of my defensive abilities eventually and wore me down. To date the only of my toons that has avoided this has been my engie, and that is only barely. Had another of their server rolled up on us during that fight I would have gone down easily. The reason why so many say that Warriors are OP in this way is because they are the ONLY class with so much CC that you cannot conceivably spec a character to overcome that CC while still being a viable asset in other fights. Basically this means you can either spec to try to beat out a warrior’s CC and be horrible at everything else, or spec to do most other things and get facerolled by the warrior CC. Remember that I am just accounting for a single warrior’s CC and not the additional damage and CC from others that might be traveling/attacking with that warrior. Note: I also had the same issues with how broken the perma-stealth/near insta-kill that thieves had for a while because there was simply no real defense against it, let alone if 2 thieves and any other class got to you in open field. For instance, I am a semi decent warrior from my time playing them, and one day I was running around with my mace/shield and longbow set up in WvW. I came across another warrior that was in full run away mode and i was still able to CC him enough to make his ability to run away pointless. The only reason he lived through the encounter was that he was able to get close enough to his tower that some of his buds saw and came to his rescue. That (to me) is a crazy amount of CC on one class.

Lets get this straight. Necros fears have more hard CC and access to chills and cripples way more than a warrior which is soft CC. Engis have way more soft CC and the best kiting abilities in the game. Warriors dont have as much CC as you think. I can beat a x/x hammer warrior with a 3 kit engi with little effort. Warrior is my main but I have a support DPS guard with some hundred or so hours logged and I main engi in tpvp. Anyone that is complaining that they have to build specifically to counter warriors obviously doesnt realize you just need to learn to dodge and utilize soft CC (blinds, cripple, chills, imobs) to your advantage.
As for everyone complaining about berserkers stance this is one of the best designed abilities in the entire game. If you cast it before a condition bomb (which takes around .5 seconds to initialize) you mitigate the entire damage and gain an upper hand where as if you mistime it you still get bombed by cripple, chill, blind and mass bleeds causing you to have no way of clearing them (as you cannot cleansing ire if you cannot hit the enemy)
If you are talking about team fights warrior is the “anti noob” class. It punishes those who do not have support guardians or get outplayed completely by a corrupt boon ect ect… in a 1v1 which I assume most people attempt to balance their justifications around a necro, an engi, a pu mesmer or even a condition warrior will still always beat someone of equal skill level if they are a power hamwarrior. while most other classes other than necro have plenty of survivability to deal with a warrior while they wait for the 8 seconds of condi immunity to drop a necro is a little tougher I will admit, but far from impossible. necros have a stunbreak protection, a stunbreak teleport that if im not mistaken works while stunned even on the way back (spectral walk) and a second HP pool.
People who cannot kite a warrior deserve to lose because your doing it wrong. adopt another play-style because its probably a l2p issue. The only class that deserves to complain about a warrior is an ele in a 1v1 situation.

So if a guardian cannot kite a warrior he is doing it wrong? Just pointing out broad statements.

Just because conditions in this game are blatantly overpowered doesn’t magically mean Warriors aren’t overpowered too.

Healing Signet is very clearly overpowered and any sane discussion on the subject always ends the same way:it needs to be nerfed.

Now that said, most sane discussion on the subject of Warrior balance also recognizes the simple fact that if Warriors didn’t have Healing Signet and/or it was nerfed, the class wouldn’t hold up at all and would need adjustments in other areas.

Most people know the class has its fair share of problems and that Healing Signet is the thing hiding this fact. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that Healing Signet needs to be nerfed but the class needs to be buffed in other areas.

Hell, the Warrior community and ANet have had the discussion numerous times about how the Greatsword needs to be buffed because the weapon is so awful, but it’s also the most complained about weapon for balance because of all the mobility it provides.

There’s room for give and take here.

Atherakhia.4086:

Just because conditions in this game are blatantly overpowered doesn’t magically mean Warriors aren’t overpowered too.

Healing Signet is very clearly overpowered and any sane discussion on the subject always ends the same way:it needs to be nerfed.

Now that said, most sane discussion on the subject of Warrior balance also recognizes the simple fact that if Warriors didn’t have Healing Signet and/or it was nerfed, the class wouldn’t hold up at all and would need adjustments in other areas.

Most people know the class has its fair share of problems and that Healing Signet is the thing hiding this fact. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that Healing Signet needs to be nerfed but the class needs to be buffed in other areas.

Hell, the Warrior community and ANet have had the discussion numerous times about how the Greatsword needs to be buffed because the weapon is so awful, but it’s also the most complained about weapon for balance because of all the mobility it provides.

There’s room for give and take here.

Morale of the story: warrior class is a mess.XD

However, IMHO it wouldn’t be that bad if healing surge wasn’t built in a wrong way:

what I mean is that it was built around the idea that its adrenaline mechanic was a plus, when it actually is a drawback.

It doesn’t help you by refilling your adrenaline: it punishes you if your adrenaline bar isn’t full yet with lower hps. And is more vulnerable to poison, because you can’t just use cleansing ire before it.

The idea that comes to mind is to just remove all adrenaline mechanic (no dependance on level, no refilling) and make it heal for max heal. That’s it, a big, dumb, slow heal which is on par with other classes’ hps.

IMHO, though, it’s also a wonderful class when made right, because at its core it follows the rule “easy to learn, easy to understand and easy to counter = hard to master”. When people say it’s easymode because you can play it with only 2 hours of experience, it’s not because the class is at its core easy to play, but is because it’s easy to understand. Which means that is also easy to counter.

Then the problem comes when a class is uncounterable.

I played a warrior at release and have always been a warrior in most other games. I still have the most pvp games played on my warrior.

Op in wvw zergs , op in wvw roaming, have always been op in hot join, pretty much op in tourney nowadays, definitely op in pve. Incredibly easy and boring to play too. Any reasons I can give will likely already have been said or will be said soon so I won’t bother. Can’t believe anyone hasn’t by now admitted the above.

fadeaway.2807:

I played a warrior at release and have always been a warrior in most other games. I still have the most pvp games played on my warrior.

Op in wvw zergs , op in wvw roaming, have always been op in hot join, pretty much op in tourney nowadays, definitely op in pve. Incredibly easy and boring to play too. Any reasons I can give will likely already have been said or will be said soon so I won’t bother. Can’t believe anyone hasn’t by now admitted the above.

What do you think I have been doing all this time?

I’ve been trying to create original and challenging yet viable builds!

Many warriors admit what you say. But refuse to give up to the dark side!

Honestly this was a stupid move posting this in the warrior sub-forum, go take these ramblings to the spvp forums and see where you get. This is nothing more than an attempt at ego-stroking and kittening and needs closing.

I’m sure Deimos will be along shortly with his words of ‘wisdom’, hurray

Will read later

Will post now saying

I have 1k hours and I love playing a warrior, god bless

i just started this game a week ago but i am going to say warrior is just too good and its a fact! i am not saying they are unbeatable or anything like that. BUT they definitely are strong. i really dont get why you are so set on DEFENDING and fooling people…….its a FACT that warrior are op! i AM SORRY SORRY but dude just WAKE up and realize it!!!! anyhow it doesnt matter keep QQ as much as you want they are getting a nerf soon cause if 66% of the people play warrior sooner or later its going to be done

Also idk i though it was common sense that a warrior main saying his class is not op is just dumb………..no offense no one is ever going to want a nerf to there main class……so you making this topic is pointless.

EPIC you should change the title, because people are not speaking about CC and that its the core of this post.

Well as EPIC said controll on warriors is not OP and there are easy ways to avoid them.
I still remember a video from a “very good engineer?” about what happens when you dodge and and hapens when you don’t dodge. (by only dodging he made the warrior complete useless).

“The amount of people in gw2 forums who can read but not understand its huge”.

Well he is defending hammer, that it is not OP. But it is everything combined, you can’t look one aspect and a few skills and ignore the rest of a warrior. I have 5 lvl 80s and just created a lvl 80 warrior.
Say whatever, but warrior is too strong because it just has everything. Damage, mobility, defense, control etc. First time I went sPvPing and had almost no clue what buttons to push I almost won a 1vs2 fight. I just couldn’t die. Even the stats you can have are amazing. Give me that kind of stats on my ele please and I still think warrior has stronger skills. Also in a 3vs3 fight or more crowded you don’t see the slow animation. Also people usually don’t dodge bow3 when you shoot it under you feet or in crowd.
Even 1vs1 if the can see the animations you have so much controling stuff to throw at them that they will run out of stuff to defend with soon. and if they managed to dodge the control, warrior still dishes out a lot of damage and is very hard to kill becuase of big HP and toughness. It’s not like there is no skill needed, but the class is just so strong and definetely not in equilibrium. I mean I’m pretty sure I could kill my ele with my warrior and I play ele for a long time and warrior for short.
I suggest you go play other classes and than you will be able to comment how warrior compares to them, not by counting a few weaknesses (that are even not weaknesses really: what do you want to have insta chain aoe stuns, with huge damage and low cooldowns that never run out or what?)
Warrior can stay like it is, I would change heal though, just give other classes same capabilities

Lots of, well, everything it seems on a warrior. Insane damage, health, healing, control, everything right? Just remember, a glass cannon will always take a lot of damage and warriors have to put a lot of trait points into one thing to be very strong with it. Sure I could be an unmovable object with shout or banner healing. But I wouldn’t hit that kitten the other hand I could focus my traits into dealing lethal amounts of damage, but a few well placed conditions will end that.

Note, I am not an expert warrior. I just know what stops and slows me down. If you plan on standing next to a high damage warrior and letting him cut you down, I’m sorry. If you plan on baiting the warrior into a back ally and jumping him with a few buddies, nicely done.

Time played, number of classes leveled to 80, where you queue and how many dungeon runs you do a day doesn’t mean much if you can’t learn from your mistakes.

Angilos.4907:

Time played, number of classes leveled to 80, where you queue and how many dungeon runs you do a day doesn’t mean much if you can’t learn from your mistakes.

Well the more classes you play the broader your knowledge of builds and how to counter them. That old advice of go out and play it for yourself is still some of the best advice out there. People who are die hard to one class are admirable but often say thing about a class that aren’t true. this is simply because they do not know anything about any class other then the one they are playing.

Dungeons and pvp balance are not a shared knowledge. You go out and PvP as the class you hate. It may be hard at first and generally most players who tell you to do this will expect that you will fail with the meta build and won’t complain about it anymore. Generally speaking the reason players fail with meta builds at first is simply because they do not know the build. Play it for a few weeks and you’ll see where it’s pluses and minuses are.

Warrior is not OP. The class is on the teetering point any many warriors fear that is certain things are nerfed the class will fall apart. Truth is that could happen. Right now the only real nerf/change that should happen is the one to healing signet. Even if they did nerf it the active would need to be buffed to compensate.

Threads like this are traps to proclaim how unbroken the class is and argue with people who disagree. When reality kicks in and emotions aren’t rampant it really isn’t hard to see whats broken and what isn’t. Stances, banners, hammer, longbow are being used as smoke and mirrors to hide what is really wrong healing signet. If those things get nerfed to heavily when/if healing signets ever gets touched the class will be kitten again.

Don’t discount playing more than one class you view gets broader.

TheGuy.3568:

Angilos.4907:

Time played, number of classes leveled to 80, where you queue and how many dungeon runs you do a day doesn’t mean much if you can’t learn from your mistakes.

Well the more classes you play the broader your knowledge of builds and how to counter them. That old advice of go out and play it for yourself is still some of the best advice out there. People who are die hard to one class are admirable but often say thing about a class that aren’t true. this is simply because they do not know anything about any class other then the one they are playing.

Dungeons and pvp balance are not a shared knowledge. You go out and PvP as the class you hate. It may be hard at first and generally most players who tell you to do this will expect that you will fail with the meta build and won’t complain about it anymore. Generally speaking the reason players fail with meta builds at first is simply because they do not know the build. Play it for a few weeks and you’ll see where it’s pluses and minuses are.

Warrior is not OP. The class is on the teetering point any many warriors fear that is certain things are nerfed the class will fall apart. Truth is that could happen. Right now the only real nerf/change that should happen is the one to healing signet. Even if they did nerf it the active would need to be buffed to compensate.

Threads like this are traps to proclaim how unbroken the class is and argue with people who disagree. When reality kicks in and emotions aren’t rampant it really isn’t hard to see whats broken and what isn’t. Stances, banners, hammer, longbow are being used as smoke and mirrors to hide what is really wrong healing signet. If those things get nerfed to heavily when/if healing signets ever gets touched the class will be kitten again.

Don’t discount playing more than one class you view gets broader.

Actualy a agree with you in some points, My opinion is HS passive should be nerfed (scalling better with healing and the active heal buffed, plus a activation bónus, (refresh stances/banners/shouts/physical utilities/movement skills/protection/breakstuns refreshed/whatever – like the mesmer signet). We need a reason to use HS active and that reason should be enough for warriors leave the passive healing for some time. Right now we dont have any reason to use it (HS active is very bad).