Guild Wars 2

Today lets talk about the mace as a main hand weapon. I feel like compared to axe, mace is lacking…something. But on the other hand most of our weapons lack compared to axe as far as dps goes, but that’s for a different topic.

I feel like it could use one or several tweaks to make it a more desirable weapon and thus open up more viable builds for warrior in all aspects of the game.

One or more of these things would go a long ways towards making the mace better:

1 – More consistent damage. Make the low end damage higher and the high end damage lower, giving it a more consistent damage output. I feel like this would compliment the slower attack speed of the weapon. The thing about the axe is that it has really consistent damage output and and an extremely fast attack speed. Axe doesn’t do as much damage per hit as the mace can potentially but the attack speed on it is nearly twice as fast as the mace.

In comparison the mace should attack slower, but do more damage (crit and non crit) on average than the axe.

2 – Straight up attack speed boost. This one is pretty straight forward and is probably not the desired path to take for buffing this weapon. I will say this though, the faster attack speed weapons like sword and axe feel more responsive than slow weapons like mace and hammer. And by that I mean it doesn’t feel like it takes ages to kill anything while using them even though they don’t do as much potential damage per hit as the mace and hammer.

3 – Increase the duration of the weakness debuff 8 seconds (third auto attack hit). Considering the only way warriors have to apply the weakness debuff is through weapon skills this make the sundering mace trait more appealing to use. Also, something else to consider is that Guardians get a straight up 5% increase in damage for mace as a trait with no downsides. The only way we get a straight 5% damage increase is if we use it as an offhand and that is not what this thread is about.

This would also allow us to finish an entire auto attack rotation before weakness wears off.

4 – Greatly increase the adrenaline gain on #2 (this also applies to the sword parry). As it is right now I don’t think it even gives 1 entire bar of adrenaline. Increasing the adrenaline gain on it might actually encourage us to use the burst skill instead of leaving it there for the Adrenal health passive. This entire argument assumes you’re speccing into defense (at least 20 points) and using a shield as you should be when main handing mace.

So yeah, right now if you want to get the most out of your warrior you’re going to be using either axe or great sword as your main weapon. Making more weapons viable means more viable builds and so on and that can only be a good thing. Sword definitely needs some buffs but that is also for another thread.

Also to keep the discussion focused this topic will revolve around mace as a main hand weapon. I feel that mace as an offhand weapon is fine where it’s at.

Discuss!

Pretty sure the problem has always been attack speed and lack of movement skills. Everything else about the weapon is pretty darn good tbh.

That’s one of the options to buffing mace, yes. But it’s not a very inventive one. Surely we can do better?

And movement skills have nothing to do with mace so there is no need to discuss that anywhere.

That being said I just envisioned a skill taken straight from Thor where we throw our mace and go flying along with it. It could either be a charge attack or a leap attack. That would be pretty awesome.

And in any case, discussion on how to make things better can only be good. It doesn’t matter how good or bad you think something currently is.

Mace and Hammer both need faster recovery speeds.

There’s no logic to the mace being slow. Practically, the warrior should be able to maneuver the weapon at least as quickly as the axe. /nerd /nerd /nerd

Sil.4560:

There’s no logic to the mace being slow. Practically, the warrior should be able to maneuver the weapon at least as quickly as the axe. /nerd /nerd /nerd

I would mostly agree with this. When I first started playing GW2 in the early betas I found it really odd that the axe weapon had the fastest attack speed for warrior weapons and not the sword, which is typically how it is in most rpg/mmos.

Thinking about it a bit more, increasing the attack speed for the mace would also solve the problem of the low weakness debuff duration. Solving two problems in one.

fellyn.5083:

And movement skills have nothing to do with mace so there is no need to discuss that anywhere.

Well. I assume that you started a thread because you wanted comments. This is exactly why I use sword over mace outside of PvE. If that doesn’t have something to do with mace, I’m not sure what it relates to.

Mace+shield is nice, and is especially good at locking down a target. I sometimes use Mace+shield/Rifle in WvW, and try to lure in unsuspecting melee players (heck, even rangers don’t kite me when they see me approaching with a rifle) into thinking I’m a rifle build, then when they get in close, switch to mace shield, and stun lock them.

The issue I have with mace, or any control based weapon on the warrior, is, it only usually takes the enemy a utility skill to nullify your plan of attack, and with control weapons having zero mobility, you end up unable to keep the pressure. Meanwhile, your enemy may have an attack or combination of attacks that you HAVE to dedicate a whole build for, as a warrior.

My reply to your thread title is, WHY?! lol mace 2 CB is nice I suppose but not worth the other 2 abilities, Pommel Bash might be a good ability(since its a daze) but needing to be in melee range makes it rather useless most of the time, maybe if the daze was ranged like axe 3 or sword 2 even( I know its a leap but technically a gap closer counts as a ranged ability imo) I like mace 5 though, even though I never use maces lol.

Mace is good at what it does. 2 and 3 skills are great. If I were to name a buff for it, I’d say:

Autoattack chain:
1) damage target
2) damage and weaken target(2 seconds)
3) damage, weaken(2 seconds) and cripple(2 seconds) target

And leave the attack speed and damage as it is.
Advantages:
-no longer need to rely on a huge windup skill to cause weaken
-the chain becomes a tad bit more scary before the big hit
-cripple → leg specialist(as it’s a control weapon anyway)

It needs its recovery reduced.

I think we can combine Fellyn’s and Parktou’s ideas.

Instead of Pommel Bash, we have a leap (let’s call it Thundering Crash, or something) in which the warrior flies toward a target with an animation reminiscent of Thor ( maybe even with lightning particles) and applies a daze on the target.

matthen.5024:

fellyn.5083:

And movement skills have nothing to do with mace so there is no need to discuss that anywhere.

Well. I assume that you started a thread because you wanted comments. This is exactly why I use sword over mace outside of PvE. If that doesn’t have something to do with mace, I’m not sure what it relates to.

The point I was trying to make was that while we might get some balance for the mace it’s unlikely they will ever change skills for it outside of a full blown expansion. So I didn’t feel a need to discuss movement skills as far as the mace goes.

But if you want to then that’s fine.

Sandwich.9035:

I think we can combine Fellyn’s and Parktou’s ideas.

Instead of Pommel Bash, we have a leap (let’s call it Thundering Crash, or something) in which the warrior flies toward a target with an animation reminiscent of Thor ( maybe even with lightning particles) and applies a daze on the target.

leave my pommel bash
What use is a daze if it can’t be used for timed interrupts, cause some guy desperately wanted a huge leap with sparkly effects?

By the way, instead of my previous suggestion, I’d already be happy with a front loaded weaken like
(1) damage
(2) damage+weaken(2 sec)
(3) huge damage + weaken (4 sec)

It still applies daze, so it can fulfill the same role if you want.

Besides, was just an idea, and extremely unlikely at that.

Edit: I actually really like that idea, naphack. It gets more dangerous as the chain continues, and if you miss the last hit, there was still some weaken there.

It does not fulfill the same role.

leap skill = cast time = less precise interrupts.

Another advantage of the front loaded weaken:
The chain benefits from the “x% more damage agaisnt weakened foes” traits better and can help setting up big hits without the full chain aswell.

That’s a good point.

I use mace exclusively for my healing build, but it’s so glob kitten boring!

I find it odd that the mace dose not apply vulnerability, as it’s a blunt weapon that should crush/dent heavy armor, leaving them open to attack.

In fact, I think the Greatsword should lose the vulnerability on it’s 3rd attack because the weapon is just too good. If you want to be a DPS warrior you must use Greatsword….

You also will never see a warrior using a mace in the meta builds of sPvP because a hammer is just so much more versatile.

Keyword though: BORING!

The damage on mace has to be buffed up. Either more damage per hit, or more responsive, and lower channeling on the 3rd hit in the #1 skill chain. It takes too long before that one hits. For the rest it’s quite solid, with a strong focus on control. It simply lacks damage, which in return causes you to get hit more since you kill a lot slower, defeating the purpose of a defensive weapon.
I feel safer with an axe….

In terms of fighting hammer warrior against mace/mace warrior, mace/mace wins hands down.

The real problem is overall response from mace skills is just too slow, last hit from chain 1sec to cast and cannot be interrupted by urself to make for example a block with mace 2 that reacts slow anyways.

Also theres no cripple or any other kind of gap closers, leaving urself to being an easy target to any ranged class, u can even dodge mace attacks by normal movement…

I agree that the Mace is just too slow. While I really wanted to like it since I’m fond of “control” weapons, its only real source of dps is the auto attack rate. The horrific delay between your pressing #1 and it actually swinging makes the Mace sub-par. If then auto attack sequence and swing times were actually cleaned up, then I could actually see a lot more people using this weapon.

The attack chain needs to land in full before an opponent recovers from a full-adrenaline stun. That is the speed I’d like to see.

I could have sworn the weakness lasted until the next application… (though just barely). Don’t think I have anything increasing it either.

vapor.5390:

By the way, instead of my previous suggestion, I’d already be happy with a front loaded weaken like
(1) damage
(2) damage+weaken(2 sec)
(3) huge damage + weaken (4 sec)

If u trait for mace, every crit hit its does apllies weakness for 1second, both for mh and oh

Scoobaniec.9561:

vapor.5390:

By the way, instead of my previous suggestion, I’d already be happy with a front loaded weaken like
(1) damage
(2) damage+weaken(2 sec)
(3) huge damage + weaken (4 sec)

If u trait for mace, every crit hit its does apllies weakness for 1second, both for mh and oh

and who would trait for mace if he can trait for shield instead?

I mostly play PvE and WvW. I’ve never had a problem with MH mace in PvE. WvW is a different matter. After reading this thread, I spent a full session in WvW running MH mace to see how it felt. I got a couple of chuckles from friends.

I think the biggest single change that would help MH mace in WvW would be to make the burst (F1) skill close ground like axe’s evicerate (F1). It would help with some of the in-combat movement limitations currently plaguing mace. I also don’t think it would be OP in PvE, as mobs are usually just coming at you anyway.

Even with a change to the burst, however, I don’t think mace would be a popular alternative to sword or axe unless it also had a 4-8 second cripple attack. Not sure where cripple could fit, but it strikes me that putting it somewhere on the autoattack chain would be seriously OP when used in conjunction with the “leg specialist” trait… although admittedly, I think the spear has cripple in the autoattack (but who cares about aquatic combat?).

Other potential changes that seem interesting, but wouldn’t address MH Mace’s fundamental limitations: (a) make the mace 2 blocking skill a “stun break”; and (b) extend the range on the mace 3 daze.

That’s my two cents for what it’s worth (2cp?)… although I’m not certain that the Devs give these kinds of threads serious thought.

Scoobaniec.9561:

vapor.5390:

By the way, instead of my previous suggestion, I’d already be happy with a front loaded weaken like
(1) damage
(2) damage+weaken(2 sec)
(3) huge damage + weaken (4 sec)

If u trait for mace, every crit hit its does apllies weakness for 1second, both for mh and oh

Could you say what trait this is? the only traits i can see that affect weakness are cull the weak and sundering mace either of these inflect weakness.

Uther Deathhand.1570:

Scoobaniec.9561:

vapor.5390:

By the way, instead of my previous suggestion, I’d already be happy with a front loaded weaken like
(1) damage
(2) damage+weaken(2 sec)
(3) huge damage + weaken (4 sec)

If u trait for mace, every crit hit its does apllies weakness for 1second, both for mh and oh

Could you say what trait this is? the only traits i can see that affect weakness are cull the weak and sundering mace either of these inflect weakness.

Sundering mace seems to have it, but not in the description, so I gather they just added it at some point during the skill’s creation and forgot to ever mention it.

Ah ok thanks i have not used mace in a while. Maybe ill play around with it. thanks again lamefox for the information.