Guild Wars 2

silentnight warrior.2714:

No. Burst skill are a class mechanic for warriors. They are linked to adrenaline. Read my post again.
Has a warrior you have disadvantages/advantages for using adrenaline.
To give team stability is to introduce counter play to classes that can abuse CC (not only warrior, necros and mesmer as well).
If the problem is the stun meta, this is the only logic thing to do. Of course the classes and duration of stability should be well thought to not completely destry CC in this game and to bring other classes into play.

Adrenaline is too cheap in some builds and those two skills are too strong for that cooldown, even if they cost adrenaline.

With 20s and 25s cooldown, you can still get 14 and 18s cooldown with Brawn and they are way more reasonable and less spammable as they are now.

Giving more enough stability to other profession to counter the stunspam, means completely destroy the non-spam stuns, since, logically, if you give a profession the ability to counter heavy stuns, you are automatically giving that profession the ability to counter soft stuns even more, which are arguably fine right now.
It’s not the way to fix the problem.

sorrow.2364:

silentnight warrior.2714:

No. Burst skill are a class mechanic for warriors. They are linked to adrenaline. Read my post again.
Has a warrior you have disadvantages/advantages for using adrenaline.
To give team stability is to introduce counter play to classes that can abuse CC (not only warrior, necros and mesmer as well).
If the problem is the stun meta, this is the only logic thing to do. Of course the classes and duration of stability should be well thought to not completely destry CC in this game and to bring other classes into play.

Adrenaline is too cheap in some builds and those two skills are too strong for that cooldown, even if they cost adrenaline.

With 20s and 25s cooldown, you can still get 14 and 18s cooldown with Brawn and they are way more reasonable and less spammable as they are now.

Giving more enough stability to other profession to counter the stunspam, means completely destroy the non-spam stuns, since, logically, if you give a profession the ability to counter heavy stuns, you are automatically giving that profession the ability to counter soft stuns even more, which are arguably fine right now.
It’s not the way to fix the problem.

In my opinion, sigil of para is the main offender along with Warrior’s amazing uptime thats greater than or equal to thieves. As with all Warriors in every game, Warriors damage comes from uptime: Which means the longer we stay in your face, the nastier we get. Currently Warriors have… 5 ways to keep uptime on an opponent, not counting foodbuffs in WvW, or Dogged March. We are the hardest class to put distance between save for thieves because we have so much stability. so we cannot be feared, KD, KB,Stunned, Blown Out, or Dazed to stop us from using our movement skills. Zerker stance covers Crippled, Chilled, immobilized, also covers fear which is in the condition family for some odd reason. also mobile strikes… We need UPTIME. I Think either we need our uptime shaved down a bit, or other classes need ways to keep us off their behinds.

sorrow.2364:

silentnight warrior.2714:

No. Burst skill are a class mechanic for warriors. They are linked to adrenaline. Read my post again.
Has a warrior you have disadvantages/advantages for using adrenaline.
To give team stability is to introduce counter play to classes that can abuse CC (not only warrior, necros and mesmer as well).
If the problem is the stun meta, this is the only logic thing to do. Of course the classes and duration of stability should be well thought to not completely destry CC in this game and to bring other classes into play.

Adrenaline is too cheap in some builds and those two skills are too strong for that cooldown, even if they cost adrenaline.

With 20s and 25s cooldown, you can still get 14 and 18s cooldown with Brawn and they are way more reasonable and less spammable as they are now.

Giving more enough stability to other profession to counter the stunspam, means completely destroy the non-spam stuns, since, logically, if you give a profession the ability to counter heavy stuns, you are automatically giving that profession the ability to counter soft stuns even more, which are arguably fine right now.
It’s not the way to fix the problem.

Stealth is cheap, Death Shroud is cheap, Mesmer clones are cheap and so on and they are all also too strong in what they do.

The solution is not to nerf burst skills but to introduce more counters to CC. Otherwise we must nerf other classes mechanics to balance the game. This means that warriors will use their burst skills in the same way to land damage but the CC is not guarantead, so we get less 50% crit rate on hits and its a direct nerf to our damage/surviability (even now CC its not guarantead with the amount of blinds (necro and thief mostly). And of course there are also evades, stability, dodges, stun breakers… Introducing counters will mean more skill to land CC mostly has a warrior. Necro, mesmer and thief will still have it easier because they can remove/corrupt/steal boons and warrior cannot do that.

And it will not destroy the non-spam stuns, people will just have to think just before spaming skills. That will only bring more skill to the game.

Mepheles.2087:

sorrow.2364:

silentnight warrior.2714:

No. Burst skill are a class mechanic for warriors. They are linked to adrenaline. Read my post again.
Has a warrior you have disadvantages/advantages for using adrenaline.
To give team stability is to introduce counter play to classes that can abuse CC (not only warrior, necros and mesmer as well).
If the problem is the stun meta, this is the only logic thing to do. Of course the classes and duration of stability should be well thought to not completely destry CC in this game and to bring other classes into play.

Adrenaline is too cheap in some builds and those two skills are too strong for that cooldown, even if they cost adrenaline.

With 20s and 25s cooldown, you can still get 14 and 18s cooldown with Brawn and they are way more reasonable and less spammable as they are now.

Giving more enough stability to other profession to counter the stunspam, means completely destroy the non-spam stuns, since, logically, if you give a profession the ability to counter heavy stuns, you are automatically giving that profession the ability to counter soft stuns even more, which are arguably fine right now.
It’s not the way to fix the problem.

In my opinion, sigil of para is the main offender along with Warrior’s amazing uptime thats greater than or equal to thieves. As with all Warriors in every game, Warriors damage comes from uptime: Which means the longer we stay in your face, the nastier we get. Currently Warriors have… 5 ways to keep uptime on an opponent, not counting foodbuffs in WvW, or Dogged March. We are the hardest class to put distance between save for thieves because we have so much stability. so we cannot be feared, KD, KB,Stunned, Blown Out, or Dazed to stop us from using our movement skills. Zerker stance covers Crippled, Chilled, immobilized, also covers fear which is in the condition family for some odd reason. also mobile strikes… We need UPTIME. I Think either we need our uptime shaved down a bit, or other classes need ways to keep us off their behinds.

There are classes that can remove boons. I lost count the times that i was trying to use eartshaker till someone strips my stability and CC my warrior. There are counters, people just dont use them.

Yeah, but the only classes that can frequently remove boons are necros, S/D Thieves, and Mesmers. Other classes have to tunnel through without such an advantage. The only other way other classes could remove boons is through the Sigil of Nullification, but idk if people are willing to give up a sigil slot for something like that.

sorrow.2364:

Iscariot.4876:

1. Are you kidding? I’ve been consistently using real data from the tournaments to counter the horrid arguments of people like you that try to introduce misinformation into balance arguments.

2-3 You tried making an argument that being common or popular in low levels of play means something is broken. Fact is Humans are the most commonly played class in GW2 by a large margin. This directly leads to show that your argument and logic is completely flawed. Learn to keep up with the flow of argument.

4. 6 of 40 is a huge number? Are you being intentionally misleading? 5 of 40 is exactly ideal representation of 12.5%. 6/40 is one extra at 15%. At that same tournament engineers were 5/20, necro 5/20, thief 5/20, ranger 9/20, guardian 8/20… So a 20% increase over thief/necro but still a 25% and 33% decrease compared to guardian and ranger. Sorry but warriors seem to be pretty much in-line. And that was only the very first time they had those numbers. Necros and thieves used to be up there with guard and ranger with everyone else in the dumper. As teams get used to warrior, there is no telling what will happen. Warriors may go up, may even out, may drop down.

1. You said that high competitive teams don’t pick Warriors. That is a blatantly false statement which you even contraddicted a couple of sentences after.

2-3. Human is not the most played class in GW2 in PvP. You got it? You took PvE data and used that as a counter example in a PvP argument. In PvE it is all a matter of personal preference, in PvP there is no personal preference at all. Is that too hard to understand for you?

4. Did you even read what I’ve wrote, or you are just pushing blindly your clueless argument? Do you realize that Guardians and Rangers are a requirement for a team due to being mid point and close point bunkers or not? If Warrior were able to fit the close point bunker role, I’m pretty sure you’ll see way more Warriors than Rangers, but that’s not the case.

You are ridiculously bad at following conversation. I am going to baby step this for you.

1. Here is your blatantly false quote. “Every competitive team have one warrior in their team comp.” THE TRUTH- that less than 50% of the teams making it to the highest levels of the last 3 tournaments included warriors. Less than 12.5% of players in those teams chose warrior. My counter that teams are not choosing warriors and players are not choosing warriors despite your claims was accurate. It was never intended to say that warriors were 100% absent.

If warriors were in line they would be on 62.5% of teams and make up 12.5% of players.

2-3 You tried to make popularity equate to strength. You can’t, end of story. Now you are trying to make a distinction between PvE and PvP. I would counter that low level competition, which is what you must be crying about most, is a lot closer to PvE; and peoples choices there revolve more around preference than it does in high level competition.

4. What are you arguing? You are blatantly accepting that two other professions should be unbalanced while trying to complain about a prof that is in-line or below performance? I’ll just say it again, no-one cares to respond to your suggestions because you insist on making baseless claims and living in a skewed reality. A profession that is 9/80 top team slots in the last 3 tournaments IS NOT performing above expectation. Period.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Xaylin.1860:

You might argue that those warriors are bad. Why would they not use their other cc? Because they don’t have to. Because it will work most of the time. And that is exactly why those builds are so lame. There is mitigation/counter on paper (stunbreakers, blind, block, dodge) but they do not work out because of the short cooldowns.

Its not because they dont have to. Warrior dont use their other cc because they are hard to land on moving targets. (big animation, root and long cast). Its funny because you need to immo/cc the target to be able to use the other cc we have on our weapons with a decent rate of success. This is a major warrior problem. We need to immo/cc the target to deal damage.

Thats why we rely so much in AoE attacks/stuns, because other way we wont deal enough damage.

I guess the “big animation” thing is debatable. I personally feel that most of the animations are quite subtile. They can be recognized but there is no flashy animation to neither of them. There are differences between them but within a fight they can easily be confused or overseen.

They definetly do NOT have a long cast time. Just compare them to other stuns, dazes and knock downs/backs etc. Most of them have comparable activiation times. And the only one rooting you is Staggering Blow. Most warriors are just not used to the activiation time because they are spoiled by the instant cc the bursts provide.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Stealth is cheap, Death Shroud is cheap, Mesmer clones are cheap and so on and they are all also too strong in what they do.

The solution is not to nerf burst skills but to introduce more counters to CC. Otherwise we must nerf other classes mechanics to balance the game. This means that warriors will use their burst skills in the same way to land damage but the CC is not guarantead, so we get less 50% crit rate on hits and its a direct nerf to our damage/surviability (even now CC its not guarantead with the amount of blinds (necro and thief mostly). And of course there are also evades, stability, dodges, stun breakers… Introducing counters will mean more skill to land CC mostly has a warrior. Necro, mesmer and thief will still have it easier because they can remove/corrupt/steal boons and warrior cannot do that.

And it will not destroy the non-spam stuns, people will just have to think just before spaming skills. That will only bring more skill to the game.

You can’t directly compare completely different class mechanics just because they are… class mechanics.

All of the mechanics you have listed are defensive mechanics and any of them are in their respective environment which makes them not OP. A Thief has stealth because otherwise would be dead instantly considering how squishy it is. A Necro has Death Shroud because he has no other way to mitigate damage. A Mesmer has clones for the same reason of thieves.

Now, Warriors have the best CC in the game, leaving aside the burst skills. Without burst skills into the equation, stuns are reasonable and can effectively stunlock an enemy. When you add burst skills, the CC is out of control. The issue isn’t that burst skills have long stun duration, they are strong and it is fine since they come at a cost of adrenaline.

Stage 1 → below average effect, Stage 2→ average effect, Stage 3→ strong effect.

The fact is that when you build to have insane adrenaline gain, you can spam the Stage 3 effect on cooldown without any worries. It isn’t meant to be like that by design, Warriors are supposed to unleash their power after they have channeled adrenaline in the fight for a worthwile amount of time, not just spam their burst skills as soon as they are out of cooldown.
That leads to another possible solution (probably the best one), nerf the insane adrenaline gain, but in that case you will nerf any burst skill, not only the ones creating this issue and it will create an huge amount of QQ in the warrior forum.

The solution isn’t to add more counter to CC, it is a cheap and uneffective solution and I’ll give you an example, since you don’t seem to understand what I mean.
Let’s imagine that ArenaNet has buffed the stability uptime on most professions to give them counter to heavy CCs. Now, let’s consider a Longbow/Greatsword ranger, which are moderately viable right now (not at all in someone’s opinion), what would they become after a buff to stability uptime?
Every profession will build to have as much stability as possible since it counters the FotM stun warrior build, the poor ranger can’t manage to land the 3 CCs he has because most professions are built to counter way heavier CC income. He can’t knock back someone off a point with Point Blank Shot or Counterattack and he can’t interrupt someone with Hilt Bash. The only layer of viability of this weapon set has been destroyed, along with the skill-friendly CCs capability.
How can it be a well-thought solution? It is just a way off to avoid the QQ, not the best thing this game needs.

Xaylin.1860:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Xaylin.1860:

You might argue that those warriors are bad. Why would they not use their other cc? Because they don’t have to. Because it will work most of the time. And that is exactly why those builds are so lame. There is mitigation/counter on paper (stunbreakers, blind, block, dodge) but they do not work out because of the short cooldowns.

Its not because they dont have to. Warrior dont use their other cc because they are hard to land on moving targets. (big animation, root and long cast). Its funny because you need to immo/cc the target to be able to use the other cc we have on our weapons with a decent rate of success. This is a major warrior problem. We need to immo/cc the target to deal damage.

Thats why we rely so much in AoE attacks/stuns, because other way we wont deal enough damage.

I guess the “big animation” thing is debatable. I personally feel that most of the animations are quite subtile. They can be recognized but there is no flashy animation to neither of them. There are differences between them but within a fight they can easily be confused or overseen.

They definetly do NOT have a long cast time. Just compare them to other stuns, dazes and knock downs/backs etc. Most of them have comparable activiation times. And the only one rooting you is Staggering Blow. Most warriors are just not used to the activiation time because they are spoiled by the instant cc the bursts provide.

The only instant CC warrior have with almost non existence anymation is skull crack (130 range). Every other single CC is higly telegraphed and you can see what is the CC/skill warrior is going to use. Compare the animations with other CC from other classes (mesmer, thief, ranger). Compare their range and their animations.

Iscariot.4876:

You are ridiculously bad at following conversation. I am going to baby step this for you.

1. Here is your blatantly false quote. “Every competitive team have one warrior in their team comp.” THE TRUTH- that less than 50% of the teams making it to the highest levels of the last 3 tournaments included warriors. Less than 12.5% of players in those teams chose warrior. My counter that teams are not choosing warriors and players are not choosing warriors despite your claims was accurate. It was never intended to say that warriors were 100% absent.

If warriors were in line they would be on 62.5% of teams and make up 12.5% of players.

2-3 You tried to make popularity equate to strength. You can’t, end of story. Now you are trying to make a distinction between PvE and PvP. I would counter that low level competition, which is what you must be crying about most, is a lot closer to PvE; and peoples choices there revolve more around preference than it does in high level competition.

4. What are you arguing? You are blatantly accepting that two other professions should be unbalanced while trying to complain about a prof that is in-line or below performance? I’ll just say it again, no-one cares to respond to your suggestions because you insist on making baseless claims and living in a skewed reality. A profession that is 9/80 top team slots in the last 3 tournaments IS NOT performing above expectation. Period.

1. The last tournament (which took place right in the warrior meta), had 75% of the teams running warrior and 15% of players running warrior (despite the fact that it is a filler profession). PAX tournament had only the finals in the warrior meta and the winning team ran a warrior.
Team Pugging runs a warrior. Doppler’s Effect runs a warrior. WGCH runs a warrior. Car Crash runs a warrior. Each worthy team runs a warrior.

2-3. You are keep failing to distinguish the environment of the topic. So now SoloQ is similiar to PvE? Ok, I’m done. You are obviously trying to annoy me with blatantly stupid arguments.

4. Did I said that Guardian and Ranger are balanced? I’ve just said that they fit a specific mandatory role for the conquest gamemode and that’s why they are in every team.
It is funny how, in the same post, you are bringing up the argument that popularity doesn’t means OPness (point 2-3) and using popularity to prove that Warriors are not overperforming, bringing up spoiled data of 3 months old tournaments, were meta has not yet settled at all.

I’m not wasting my time anymore responding to a troll or a clueless forum warrior.

NO ONE was using the CC build before Warrior’s got the berserker stance, cleansing ire, and skull crack buff. NO ONE. Not even Mr. Know-It-All sorrow.2364 could’ve made it work before these changes happened. (Because you are just simple-minded beyond salvation)

Do you know the “only reason why its anti-fun” right now? Hint: Its not the frequency of the stuns, the stun durations or paralyzation sigil.

Amir.1570:

NO ONE was using the CC build before Warrior’s got the berserker stance, cleansing ire, and skull crack buff. NO ONE. Not even Mr. Know-It-All sorrow.2364 could’ve made it work before these changes happened. (Because you are just simple-minded beyond salvation)

Do you know the “only reason why its anti-fun” right now? Hint: Its not the frequency of the stuns, the stun durations or paralyzation sigil.

Did you even read my posts?

sorrow.2364:

You can’t directly compare completely different class mechanics just because they are… class mechanics.

All of the mechanics you have listed are defensive mechanics and any of them are in their respective environment which makes them not OP. A Thief has stealth because otherwise would be dead instantly considering how squishy it is. A Necro has Death Shroud because he has no other way to mitigate damage. A Mesmer has clones for the same reason of thieves.

Now, Warriors have the best CC in the game, leaving aside the burst skills. Without burst skills into the equation, stuns are reasonable and can effectively stunlock an enemy. When you add burst skills, the CC is out of control. The issue isn’t that burst skills have long stun duration, they are strong and it is fine since they come at a cost of adrenaline.

Stage 1 -> below average effect, Stage 2-> average effect, Stage 3-> strong effect.

The fact is that when you build to have insane adrenaline gain, you can spam the Stage 3 effect on cooldown without any worries. It isn’t meant to be like that by design, Warriors are supposed to unleash their power after they have channeled adrenaline in the fight for a worthwile amount of time, not just spam their burst skills as soon as they are out of cooldown.
That leads to another possible solution (probably the best one), nerf the insane adrenaline gain, but in that case you will nerf any burst skill, not only the ones creating this issue and it will create an huge amount of QQ in the warrior forum.

The solution isn’t to add more counter to CC, it is a cheap and uneffective solution and I’ll give you an example, since you don’t seem to understand what I mean.
Let’s imagine that ArenaNet has buffed the stability uptime on most professions to give them counter to heavy CCs. Now, let’s consider a Longbow/Greatsword ranger, which are moderately viable right now (not at all in someone’s opinion), what would they become after a buff to stability uptime?
Every profession will build to have as much stability as possible since it counters the FotM stun warrior build, the poor ranger can’t manage to land the 3 CCs he has because most professions are built to counter way heavier CC income. He can’t knock back someone off a point with Point Blank Shot or Counterattack and he can’t interrupt someone with Hilt Bash. The only layer of viability of this weapon set has been destroyed, along with the skill-friendly CCs capability.
How can it be a well-thought solution? It is just a way off to avoid the QQ, not the best thing this game needs.

1) All the mechanics i´ve listed are defensive/ofensive mechanics.Thief uses stealth to attack/survive, Mesmers use clones to attack/survive, necros use DeathShroud to attack/survive. Warriors do the same.

2) Warriors have (burst skills aside as you said) the best telegraphed, short range CC in the game wich make them always hard to land on anyone. Thats why people say that warriors only use their burst skills. Burst skills: Only Skull Crack needs to be more telegraphed.

3) Warriors build adrenaline so fast because they are hit many times (cleansing ire). So they are taking damage to build adrenaline fast.

4) People are already complaining about longbow/hammer builds, so people will QQ because that is what they do best.

5) So if ranger needs to use CC then it should use it when the enemy dont have stability up. (same as warriors) Rangers have ways to survive till stability ends besides they have good ranged damage/pets and they dont rely on CC to land damage.
And what i was saying was that one or two classes should have team stability traits (they should trait for that and not give that free). That means that it should be more or less 5-10 seconds of stability to the entire team. When that time expires people use their CC as usual.

The worst thing in this game are classes that have ways to remove the counters other classes have to beat them. A necro corrupt your boons and then fear you. A mesmer remove your boons and then CC you. A thief steal your stability, you cannot CC him and they can CC you.
A warrior cannot strip your stability and needs to know if you have stability up to use their skills.
Besides there is no other class that needs to CC the target in order to make damage.

Only Unsuspecting foe is to blame here.ai play zerker amulet war in pvp and i can vouch that its’ perfectly counterable .Still beast against condi spam but extrrmely weak to counter as it should be.Mesmers and thieves especially are extremely hard counter and can burst you before the next stun rotation.
Problem with Unsuspecting foe is that it allows warriors to ignore the heavy burst and proceed into infinite stun rotations while still mantaining the unstagib dps.

If you fix Unsuspecting Foe the scenarios for stun wars will become only 2

#a zerker warrior that can be bursted down with a timed stability, blind, dodge interrupt and so on, basicly a good players response to his gameplau
#a very ressilient high survavibility warrior with stunlock, but with terrible dps to be qn axtual problem.

I am still amazed how easy the fix is and no dev noticed it.
And meanwhile the qq goes on aon prettyuch everything EXCEPT the only real problem.It was an antique trait that was meh but became OP with the recent changes that were much needed.

Zerker warrior with HS is worse than dead.Just know i had to throw that in because not so many readers will actually get it.

silentnight warrior.2714:

The only instant CC warrior have with almost non existence anymation is skull crack (130 range). Every other single CC is higly telegraphed and you can see what is the CC/skill warrior is going to use. Compare the animations with other CC from other classes (mesmer, thief, ranger). Compare their range and their animations.

Your point being?

I never said that warriors had too many instant ccs. I also never said that other classes do not have instant cc. I said that the ccs warriors have is not inferior to other classes and most stuns, dazes, knock downs/backs and pushs do have an activation time. But despites most classes only having one cc skill per weapon set, warriors can have 3 ccs per weapon sets. The big picture is important. Not looking at single skills. 3 ccs per weapon set plus healing signet make the cc builds unbearable.

Furthermore, every other instant stun/daze besides Skull Crack has a very low duration (0.5s-1s) or a very very long cooldown. The duration of the cc usually is balanced by the activation time and the cooldown. That is the reason why I personally think that increasing the cooldown is a valid option for balancing. Or would you prefer a longer activation time? Or a shorter stun duration?

Looking at other classes, a stun which is instant but only 0.5s-1s is more for interrupting than crowd controlling. That is why Skull Crack is so outstanding. I do not care when I am hit by an instant 0.5s-1s stun or daze because they won’t be able to kill me within that time. As I said… it’s just an interrupt. Totally different when being hit by Skull Crack.

Skull Crack is the best single cc ingame. Not sure how you can see a warrior at any disadvantage. And pleace don’t tell me the 130 range is a big downside. It’s like saying normal melee range is too short.

Regarding the highly telegraphed… I just personally disagree. Maul is highly telegraphed. Not Backbreaker or Staggering Blow. The attack itself is telegraphed. Not the activation time. Thats a substantial difference. I do recognize the skills in 1vs1 but they are neither highly telegraphed in advance nor very distinguishable. In large fights it is almost impossible to see anything besides maybe Earthshaker because of all the other particle effects. When comparing hammer and mace skills to other melee cc Banish is very similar to Backbreaker. Zealots Embrace is even worse.

Ranged skills are a bit different. But as I said – they usually have a very short duration or a very high cooldown. Additionally, many even got a projectile which can be evaded.

The activation time of warrior cc is not long. It is comporable to all other ccs. Meaning, it is normal. The activation time is also not long when considering human reaction time. The only good way to avoid cc is to anticipate the rotation someone is using and in that case the cast time isn’t that important as long as it is no longer than 1s.

I got to admit that I did not read EVERY post in this thread because of the big amount of trolling going on here. But what would you suggest for adjusting the current cc warrior builds? Or do you feel that there is no need to change anything?

silentnight warrior.2714:

The worst thing in this game are classes that have ways to remove the counters other classes have to beat them. A necro corrupt your boons and then fear you. A mesmer remove your boons and then CC you. A thief steal your stability, you cannot CC him and they can CC you.
A warrior cannot strip your stability and needs to know if you have stability up to use their skills.
Besides there is no other class that needs to CC the target in order to make damage.

I do not get that victim position many warriors seem to claim for themselves.
You are powerful warriors. Arrrr! Be a man!

Corrupt Boons + Fear is a specific set up. If they bring boon corruption to counter your stability then they should be rewarded for that. If you are annoyed by the fear you got to bring at least one stunbreaker.

If you’re not playing an interrupt Mesmer they won’t remove your boons (possible exception: shatter mesmers). They will have to save their boon removal quite often because it is their condition removal (Arcane Thievery, Nullfield).

Thieves are annoying for sure. But they are better at interrupting than actually ccing you. Their dazes/stuns are very short.

Luckily, a warrior is very unlikely to fight people with stability in PvP besides other warriors and guardians. All other classes usually have to sacrifice way too much for gaining access to stability. And you certainly do not have to stun someone to deal melee damage. The base damage is high enough even without Unsuspecting Foes.

silentnight warrior.2714:

1) All the mechanics i´ve listed are defensive/ofensive mechanics.Thief uses stealth to attack/survive, Mesmers use clones to attack/survive, necros use DeathShroud to attack/survive. Warriors do the same.

2) Warriors have (burst skills aside as you said) the best telegraphed, short range CC in the game wich make them always hard to land on anyone. Thats why people say that warriors only use their burst skills. Burst skills: Only Skull Crack needs to be more telegraphed.

3) Warriors build adrenaline so fast because they are hit many times (cleansing ire). So they are taking damage to build adrenaline fast.

4) People are already complaining about longbow/hammer builds, so people will QQ because that is what they do best.

5) So if ranger needs to use CC then it should use it when the enemy dont have stability up. (same as warriors) Rangers have ways to survive till stability ends besides they have good ranged damage/pets and they dont rely on CC to land damage.
And what i was saying was that one or two classes should have team stability traits (they should trait for that and not give that free). That means that it should be more or less 5-10 seconds of stability to the entire team. When that time expires people use their CC as usual.

The worst thing in this game are classes that have ways to remove the counters other classes have to beat them. A necro corrupt your boons and then fear you. A mesmer remove your boons and then CC you. A thief steal your stability, you cannot CC him and they can CC you.
A warrior cannot strip your stability and needs to know if you have stability up to use their skills.
Besides there is no other class that needs to CC the target in order to make damage.

1) Burst skills are purely offensive.

2) Shield Bash, Pommel Bash and Backbreaker are all on a short cooldown and they are quite effective. They aren’t that much telegraphed at all. The amount of stuns they have is pretty decent even without burst skills, but having 8s long-duration stuns that can be spammed on cooldown is what makes Warrior so broken right now.

3) I know how it works. Adrenaline comes from Cleansing Ire (one strike per hit, 10 strikes = one bar), 5 strikes when swapping weapon and one strike is refunded each time you land a burst skill. That’s a lot of adrenaline and it easily allows warrior to spam burst skills on cooldown.

4) ?

5) How can a ranger with mild CCs be effective against professions with counters to heavy CCs of warrior? Seriously, I don’t get the logic behind your statements.

sorrow.2364:

1) Burst skills remove conditions with cleansing ire. Thats why we need burst skill with low CD. Burst skills give us surviability.

2) Compare the animations with mesmers/thief/ranger/ele stuns/dazes and see the diference in animations.

3) You need to be hit, hit your oponent and work your both two weapons to gain adrenaline and you think that is not ok.

4) Because you said people will QQ on the forums if they nerfed adrenaline gain and i was saying to you that people complain about anything on these forums. They started with M-S/GS, turn to H/M-S and now they are QQ about L/H. Even warriors complain about other classes (mesmer/thief).
People complain because its easier to do that than to adapt.

5) They have stealth, pets, evades and can wait till stability is down.

6) how can a warrior be efective without stuns?

If you can’t see somebody doing shieldbash or backbreaker…

I’m done arguing in this subforum.
Too much bias to get something useful from this.
I never learn…

Shield bashing at point blank doesn’t even shorten the animation, it just makes more of it stationary b4 the server decides it connected. I don’t get how you can’t notice somebody’s character going diagonal, moving a shield in front of their face, sliding towards you, and making that noise.

sorrow.2364:

I’m done arguing in this subforum.
Too much bias to get something useful from this.
I never learn…

looks like you just lost the debate, you can’t say anything can you, non of the arugments are biased, only yours. now go throw your biased OPINION else where.

burst skills are purely offensive? stealth clone deathshroud are purely defensive? lol can’t be more laughable then that.

sorrow.2364:

I’m done arguing in this subforum.
Too much bias to get something useful from this.
I never learn…

While I would like our class to be both a challenge to fight, and not a just a pain in the kitten while also being fun to play with, It’s hard to come to a decent solution so that warriors aren’t in the state they were in before. Hammer and mace were kinda poop before they got a buff, even back then when burst CD were 8s. no one would have used either weapon. I’d like to see these weapons stay relevant, even after nerfs. Because they will most likely get them no doubt. Survivability, mobility, offensive burst, sustained damage, anti-CC, Anti-Conditions… all this is what makes warrior a warrior. However even I can see that it’s out of hand. We are literally the living version of a Risen Abomination, shrugging off soft and hard CC, and just AOE stunning and KD’ing everything withing 300 range of us. There is no currently visible balance between our offense and defense.

I would LIKE to see us keep Zerker stance and Cleansing Ire as they are. Maybe give zerker stance a bit longer CD, because let’s face it: 3 Conditions every 7 seconds is pretty freaking amazing compared to alot of classes. After that, we can see where things go…. but I don’t think I can trust the devs to not be heavy handed about this.

After some tyhorough testing (Reading, wrecking people that dont bring stunbreakers in pvp) I can agree with the sentiment that, Stuns, when combined with sustain from healing signet(heaven forbid the banner) will wreck most everything that doesn’t spam blinds blocks and evades.

It would probably be a good idea to decrease the power of healing signet in pvp only. Once (if) anet adjusts the condi meta we will see more people taking stunbreaks/stability.

Anet please select ONE aspect of the warrior and shave it down, not all of them. I dont want to wake up, read patch notes and see
- all stuns halved
-healing signet halved
-stance duration halved
-block duration halved
-warhorn cd increased by 100%
-Sword 2 leap reduced to 300 range.

Brutal Arts.6307:

After some tyhorough testing (Reading, wrecking people that dont bring stunbreakers in pvp) I can agree with the sentiment that, Stuns, when combined with sustain from healing signet(heaven forbid the banner) will wreck most everything that doesn’t spam blinds blocks and evades.

It would probably be a good idea to decrease the power of healing signet in pvp only. Once (if) anet adjusts the condi meta we will see more people taking stunbreaks/stability.

Anet please select ONE aspect of the warrior and shave it down, not all of them. I dont want to wake up, read patch notes and see
- all stuns halved
-healing signet halved
-stance duration halved
-block duration halved
-warhorn cd increased by 100%
-Sword 2 leap reduced to 300 range.

It’s not happening in the next balance patch, warriors are getting shouts buffed, nothing nerfed. So none of the above is even being looked at, I just don’t get aNet’s complete misunderstanding of the current meta and what looks like complete ignorance to what’s even going on in there own game at the moment.

Amir.1570:

NO ONE was using the CC build before Warrior’s got the berserker stance, cleansing ire, and skull crack buff. NO ONE. Not even Mr. Know-It-All sorrow.2364 could’ve made it work before these changes happened. (Because you are just simple-minded beyond salvation).

Euh, I did .. mace/sword and axe/shield. It wasn’t as good as it is now but it worked.

Setun.4368:

The purpose of a stun build is to disrupt people’s combat flow. Simple as that. If you get whacked by a well timed stun of any kind (skill, luck, w/e), you should pay the price for it.

It’s not being hit by 1 stun that causes so much turmoil. It’s the fact that they are chained. If you happen to have used your stunbreaker before, you have to soak up the entire combo without any opportunity to react. It’s not infrequent that a warrior comes in from behind and uses earthshaker while you were busy fighting someone else.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Setun.4368:

The purpose of a stun build is to disrupt people’s combat flow. Simple as that. If you get whacked by a well timed stun of any kind (skill, luck, w/e), you should pay the price for it.

It’s not being hit by 1 stun that causes so much turmoil. It’s the fact that they are chained. If you happen to have used your stunbreaker before, you have to soak up the entire combo without any opportunity to react. It’s not infrequent that a warrior comes in from behind and uses earthshaker while you were busy fighting someone else.

Any class with CC that joins the fight can CC you if your stunbreackers are down while you fight someone else. In fact there are classes that dont need to CC you to drop your health from what you had in the moment to 0 almost instantly. When you fight 1v1 you can see your oponent moves and use your skills to survive. As soon other joins the fight you would only win if they are really bad players. But that its not related to only warriors. Warrior can CC you (still your team mates have time to save you if they arrive if your stunbreakers/stability are on recharge), other classes will kill you there almost instantly.

Not any class chains cc though (except necro fear chain). Im not against the stuns since I run with 3 stunbreakers but just stating that the most qq goes to a stun chain rather than being hit by one stun.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Not any class chains cc though (except necro fear chain). Im not against the stuns since I run with 3 stunbreakers but just stating that the most qq goes to a stun chain rather than being hit by one stun.

That’s the whole point of Hammer though, It’s a chain CC weapon. You can only do the complete chain every 25 seconds and if you miss a Backbreaker against a good opponent it may not end up being so hot for you.

I don’t now how you could change anything about Hammer without making it worthless.

P.S. so excited that I’ll be able to use Staggering Blow while moving, even at a reduced speed.

The last time there was a “It’s not fun not being able to use my skills” type of debate was with the glamour Mesmer, and anet nerfed that from 3 different directions (confusion damage and 2 traits got nerfed) making the build unviable.

Hopefully anet takes the approach of small changes, which they said was how they would handle adjustments, and not kill the hammer spec, but something needs to be done.

dandamanno.4136:

The last time there was a “It’s not fun not being able to use my skills” type of debate was with the glamour Mesmer, and anet nerfed that from 3 different directions (confusion damage and 2 traits got nerfed) making the build unviable.

Hopefully anet takes the approach of small changes, which they said was how they would handle adjustments, and not kill the hammer spec, but something needs to be done.

Well, the Mace+Shield/GS setup is getting hit with the Sigil of Paralyzation fix, which will lower its power significantly.

Hammer always had one glaring weakness: Damage. So I could see Merciless Hammer or Unsuspecting Foe getting tweaked. More likely the former, since the latter is used in more combinations.

It’s not like Hammer+Mace/Shield results in massive uptime for stun, akin to what Daze was with Tactical Strike. Mostly because you simply do not magically get that 2-3s stun on the bursts and Hammer and Mace are notoriously bad at generating adrenaline.

But honestly, I would just wait until they fix the Sigil of Paralyzation and see how that turns out.

God I just wish they revert warriors back to the old frenzy hb that was good days when kitten players were so easy to spot. I hate now that all these warriors think they are good playing cheesy specs. Oh well I guess I will play DP trickery thief for now since that actually takes skill or maybe evis warrior…

I will be interested to see what happens when they fix the sigil. I haven’t looked into the build too much because I don’t like to pick builds based off the meta, but I know warriors have gotten annoying. Almost every warrior I see now is running a stun build and as a necro with little access to stability, make one wrong move can cost me greatly.

I believe at some point the devs decided to make a huge nerf on fear by putting a cap on it. They said that they were trying to make sure there wasn’t large periods of time when a player couldn’t control their character because it was very frustrating to a lot of people. I think this is sort of the same situation but a little worse because it seems to have a lot more up time than the fear builds did. Hopefully help is coming soon.

apt.9184:

God I just wish they revert warriors back to the old frenzy hb that was good days when kitten players were so easy to spot. I hate now that all these warriors think they are good playing cheesy specs. Oh well I guess I will play DP trickery thief for now since that actually takes skill or maybe evis warrior…

DP
Skill

pick one

Amir.1570:

NO ONE was using the CC build before Warrior’s got the berserker stance, cleansing ire, and skull crack buff. NO ONE. Not even Mr. Know-It-All sorrow.2364 could’ve made it work before these changes happened. (Because you are just simple-minded beyond salvation)

Do you know the “only reason why its anti-fun” right now? Hint: Its not the frequency of the stuns, the stun durations or paralyzation sigil.

Then why do i know a warrior who ran the same build before it was even buffed? He “made it work” by winning most duels he fought in. M/S GS has been around for a long, long time.

honovi.7893:

Amir.1570:

NO ONE was using the CC build before Warrior’s got the berserker stance, cleansing ire, and skull crack buff. NO ONE. Not even Mr. Know-It-All sorrow.2364 could’ve made it work before these changes happened. (Because you are just simple-minded beyond salvation)

Do you know the “only reason why its anti-fun” right now? Hint: Its not the frequency of the stuns, the stun durations or paralyzation sigil.

Then why do i know a warrior who ran the same build before it was even buffed? He “made it work” by winning most duels he fought in. M/S GS has been around for a long, long time.

yes and it was hard to pull off succesfull. AND it had downsides .

NOW chain stuns are to long , and healing signet is uncounterable.

Anet failed at warrior balance. plain and simple.

- They boosted war in order to get more folks to play , didnt work ( tho war was in a good spot tbh, just not many tried it )

- A month later they boosted wars AGAIN , making it a GOD character that is way to OP , so folks would have no choice then to switch to a war and make the war a more popular character.

- NOW 2-3 months later and probably 900 + request for a nerf from respected players off all classes. Anet hasnt dont kitten about it.

- result of the slow work anet delivers :
Playerbase realised anet had no intentions of doing whats good for the player/ balance of the game. And probably more then 50% of the players have left gw2 pvp scene and another 20% just logs in once a while to see if anets has smartend up.

Strange how most of the whiners and qqers here are mostly thiefs and yet u seldom see warriors going to other classes to whine. Grow a beard please.

IFreedom.4637:

Strange how most of the whiners and qqers here are mostly thiefs and yet u seldom see warriors going to other classes to whine. Grow a beard please.

I posted this in another thread that was suggesting that Warriors need to be “shaved.” Your beard comment made me think of it. I actually have one of the new haircuts now though :P.

patiently waiting this Unjust Abuse mechanic to be fixed.

Daecollo.9578:

Necromancer > Warrior

You just need to learn better tactics then spamming scepter 1 and staff 2.

Just one thing, as a DkS player…

THE LEGEND NEVER DIES!

I thought I would come here to complain about how clearly OP these warriors are.

They will stunlock me and my passive regen will generally out heal their damage. It’s horrible! I never have any stability around them either! I always use it on all the fear necros or engies still trying to knock me around! It’s so annoying that I never have any!
What’s worse are the ones with greatsword… if I have my protection up like normal they barely tickle.
And their OP berserker stance is the worst. I have to keep them at range and wait for like 8 seconds before I can do the majority of my damage.
And lets not forget healing signet! Gods, once you poison them it’s so broken! It’s like you take away the majority of their healing and you can easily out damage that heal.

They should totally be nerfed so I barely have to try again vs them.
[/sarcasm]
(I play a mace/sword + longbow (primary condi) warrior. I use healing signet, I hate being poisoned. The grove runes give me protection. I don’t use sigil of paralyzation, I use the fiery ’splody one. I also use doom.)

Void.4239:

healing signet is uncounterable.

Anet failed at warrior balance. plain and simple.

- They boosted war in order to get more folks to play , didnt work ( tho war was in a good spot tbh, just not many tried it )

- A month later they boosted wars AGAIN , making it a GOD character that is way to OP , so folks would have no choice then to switch to a war and make the war a more popular character.

if warriors are god now then why i died in tpvp vs 3 power necro and 2 thief? and did i mention my stability turn in to condition and my so called zerker stance after 8 seconds they keep putting conditions on me and minion are knocking me down
we almost lost that time but thank’s to my teammates they killed the lord of other team maybe just maybe you are one of those guy’s i encounter in tpvp that face tank my backbreaker and earthshaker + skull crack + staggering blow the only skill that stun for too long is skull crack that isn’t telegraph but so obvious when we need to land it we need to go closer then you can dodge or blind us or maybe chill or fear but one thing i notice is many players now are changing build learning how to counter the warrior instead of whining here in forum if you just think outside the box you will know there is a counter build.

jayson.6512:

Void.4239:

healing signet is uncounterable.

Anet failed at warrior balance. plain and simple.

- They boosted war in order to get more folks to play , didnt work ( tho war was in a good spot tbh, just not many tried it )

- A month later they boosted wars AGAIN , making it a GOD character that is way to OP , so folks would have no choice then to switch to a war and make the war a more popular character.

if warriors are god now then why i died in tpvp vs 3 power necro and 2 thief? and did i mention my stability turn in to condition and my so called zerker stance after 8 seconds they keep putting conditions on me and minion are knocking me down
we almost lost that time but thank’s to my teammates they killed the lord of other team maybe just maybe you are one of those guy’s i encounter in tpvp that face tank my backbreaker and earthshaker + skull crack + staggering blow the only skill that stun for too long is skull crack that isn’t telegraph but so obvious when we need to land it we need to go closer then you can dodge or blind us or maybe chill or fear but one thing i notice is many players now are changing build learning how to counter the warrior instead of whining here in forum if you just think outside the box you will know there is a counter build.

FULL STOP

Ottohi.2871:

I thought I would come here to complain about how clearly OP these warriors are.

They will stunlock me and my passive regen will generally out heal their damage. It’s horrible!

No. Stopped reading.

Ladies and Gentlemen your attention please!

I have found a possible fix without nerfing warriors healing signet passive. It is found in this wonderful and long forgotten game called Guild Wars 1:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ignorance

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lion%27s_Comfort

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rust

Some possible ways to get this to work in gw2 is to:

1. Give classes a way to disable signet effects.

2. Adrenaline skills now disable healing signet.

Of course these ideas won’t be implemented. You see, gw2 balance issues always revolve around one thing: “There are no risks to many skills”.

Take a look at lions comfort, it healed for a lot and didn’t use energy BUT it disabled signets. See? So there are positives: good healing, doesn’t use energy. And there are negatives: disables your signets.

What this does is push the player to make conscious choices in what they do. Gw2 skills look like this: Healing signet positives: high passive heal, short cd. Negative: low active heal.

Not much of a negative if the positives outweigh everything about it. And this isn’t just another anti warrior post, because its not really a class issue, but a combat mechanical issue that will never ever be fixed.

As long as the risks aren’t on par with the rewards then we will continue to have op skills. Sure healing signet will be nerfed, but something new will come along to take its place. And the same issues will be stated: its too strong and there is no counter play. People will continue to bash what ever class is involved, but the real issue is lack of real negative effects of skills.

As a warrior main, I can’t wait for this horrible cheesy build to be destroyed. They should be showing love to our other weapons such as Hammers and Swords.

Bacon Please.8407:

As a warrior main, I can’t wait for this horrible cheesy build to be destroyed. They should be showing love to our other weapons such as Hammers and Swords.

Hammer got some love. pretty much the rework to burst mastery and the discipline bonus was a nice change, they also reduced after cast of alot of skills. Next patch we can staggering blow while MOVING. Sword got pretty decent buffs as well. Off-hand Axe needs some love more than any other weapon.

Bacon Please.8407:

As a warrior main, I can’t wait for this horrible cheesy build to be destroyed. They should be showing love to our other weapons such as Hammers and Swords.

Hammer is part of the stun builds…

Player Character.9467:

Bacon Please.8407:

As a warrior main, I can’t wait for this horrible cheesy build to be destroyed. They should be showing love to our other weapons such as Hammers and Swords.

Hammer is part of the stun builds…

But it’s not the main cause of cheese, I guess. I used to have fun with it and the mace.

It hasn’t been changed much.

Daecollo.9578:

sorrow.2364:

Solori.6025:

ok…so…this is still going on…gotcha…

umm.. Have any of you necro’s tried moving away from the condition build and building around wells and damage?

When I left 2 weeks ago that build was working fine in Spvp and WvW denying warriors the ability to sit in melee range with you.

On the other hand your squishy…but lets be honest…with all the -condi builds now floating around you’re almost useless anyway. . . .

Secondly, If you have a means to counter something yet you refuse to, you’re your own worst enemy and handicap. Any complaint you could have had becomes baseless.

Power-based builds are even worse than condition builds.
First, because power is mitigated by Armor and Warriors usually run with an hell lot of that.
Second, because power damage needs you to not to be stunned to deal damage, so while conditions still tick when you’re stunned, power damage does not.
Third, because if you are running well-heavy builds, you have less stunbreakers and you are way more squishy.

I personally love power Necro and I tend to play it when possible, but in the current Warrior meta, it is completely unviable.

Unviable Yep.

Here is a picture of me vs Three Warriors.

Completely outplayed me with there awesome god-like-ness.

1) Thank you for killing that Sylvari hating racist
2) Yes I think they are casual since they are fighting a necro in 3 wells
3) Spvpzz.z..z.zzzzzzzzz………….

apt.9184:

God I just wish they revert warriors back to the old frenzy hb that was good days when kitten players were so easy to spot. I hate now that all these warriors think they are good playing cheesy specs. Oh well I guess I will play DP trickery thief for now since that actually takes skill or maybe evis warrior…

But… But I want to play a tanky, hard to play build.

I’d like the idea of warriors being full of raw power. Juggernauts which are hard to unleash.

I’m sorry, but I always found that build really uncreative.