Guild Wars 2

Shield Mastery
Shield skills recharge 20% faster.
Reflect missiles whenever you are blocking.
Block attacks while channeling healing abilities. Only while using a shield.

This allows a unique thing for shield warriors, shields have been underused for a good while because they don’t really offer any unique effects, this would allow shield warriors to be protected when using healing spells.

I agree. This would make equipting a shield more useful.

so you cant interupt heals? at all? thats OP and wont make it into the game if you ask me, there are more professions (engineer/guardian) that use shield and all the shield traits are the same, 20% faster skill recharge and +90 toughness. its not like shields arent strong for warrior

I’m pretty tired of hearing Thats OP, because you didn’t explain why nore did you realize that Guardians main healing ability is like that already, and it heals for more then any warrior heal would.

You can still interrupt a heal by making your attacks unblockable, this means a warrior could interrupt another warrior for example. A necromancer could as well with Marks. Those are just two examples.

Warriors have nothing OP, they need a meta themselves and good counter play. So please think a little before you shout things like THAT IS OP! Warriors are a horrible class compared to most and need a lot of help.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Surge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shelter

I’m not disagreeing with you, but when make blatantly untrue statements, you ruin your own credibility.

Do guardians have a bigger health pool than warriors?

My heal only heals for about 22-25% of my life, while the guardian one heals for 60-80% of their life. Therefore there heals are bigger by default. I am not lieing.

Guardians take a lot less damage. Bigger health does not mean anything, only how much damage you take over time comparatively, which means Warrior heals are a lot worse.

Mending should be healing for 11100 to be up-to par with shelter, respectfully. Healing Surge should be healing for about 16725 to be on-par with Signet of Resolve.

Healing Signet should be 600 hp/s, with 8550 active heal.

Maybe it’s because I actually played a warrior and I understand what you’re talking about or maybe it’s because I’m secretly in love with you like Leo pointed out in the other thread.

I’m sure the reee reees on these forums will point to the second.

Heals should be made with base health in mind. As well as how much active damage reduction a class can get. Warriors have some of the worst damage reduction options, therefore should have probably the highest heal gain. They should have a strong able body.

Daecollo.9578:

My heal only heals for about 22-25% of my life, while the guardian one heals for 60-80% of their life. Therefore there heals are bigger by default. I am not lieing.

Guardians take a lot less damage. Bigger health does not mean anything, only how much damage you take over time comparatively, which means Warrior heals are a lot worse.

Mending should be healing for 11100 to be up-to par with shelter, respectfully. Healing Surge should be healing for about 16725 to be on-par with Signet of Resolve.

Healing Signet should be 600 hp/s, with 8550 active heal.

Oh Daecollo, you make me laugh sometimes. Sometimes I think you grasp this game and most times I think you have no clue what you’re talking about.

Let’s keep this simple. Mending heals for more and is on a slightly lesser cool down. You can’t compare the healing output of Mending and Shelter to life % because Warriors have higher base health than a guardian.

18k = Warrior
11k = Guardian

It’s obvious that the guardian heal could heal for more than half their health when their base pool is 7k less. Come on man. You really make yourself look like a complete noob when you talk like this.

p.s. If you look at wiki, mending supposedly takes advantage of healing power better than Shelter on top of that. Is that correct? Maybe not but if it is, that makes your statement even more incorrect.

Warrior, Necromancer 28 (24 Vit) 9,212 (916 Vit) 268 18,372
Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer 18 (24 Vit) 5,922 (916 Vit) 258 15,082
Guardian, Thief, Elementalist 5 (24 Vit) 1,645 (916 Vit) 245 10,805

Daecollo.9578:

Heals should be made with base health in mind. As well as how much active damage reduction a class can get. Warriors have some of the worst damage reduction options, therefore should have probably the highest heal gain. They should have a strong able body.

Good grief. I would suggest to stop posting because you’re going down hill.

If they made heals based on % that would mean lower health pools would suffer and cool downs would need to be adjusted or base health pools would all need to be globally set on par with each other. The warrior lacks damage reduction because of their higher health pool. Giving the warrior access to protection + 18k base health pool would make them more powerful than guardians easily.

It’s like you type without thinking, constantly…

If there were some attacks that did damage as a % of your health pool:
ex. “Deal damage equal to X% of your target’s (max or current) HP”

and not as a set value as we see in GW2:
Damage = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

you would be making some sense, but that isn’t the case.

The warrior lacks damage reduction because of their higher health pool. Giving the warrior access to protection + 18k base health pool would make them more powerful than guardians easily.

When you make blanket generalizations like this and tell other people to stop posting the only person making a fool out of themselves is you.

I mean you come in here and bash a person and then you make a complete fool of yourself dropping the warrior’s high health pool argument not taking into effect variables that make guardians way more useful and needed in the game than warriors. Why would warrior’s ever run healing power as well the class is not setup through traits, skills, utilities or even the downed state to make viable builds let alone optimal builds with it.

I’ve done exactly what you just did but rooted my statements in facts and examples of how the game is actually played and when I did this my posts would get deleted. I hope your post stays up so ppl see how foolish you’ve made yourself look.

Why isn’t this kid part of the Dev team?

AlBundy.7851:

I mean you come in here and bash a person and then you make a complete fool of yourself dropping the warrior’s high health pool argument not taking into effect variables that make guardians way more useful and needed in the game than warriors. Why would warrior’s ever run healing power as well the class is not setup through traits, skills, utilities or even the downed state to make viable builds let alone optimal builds with it.

I’ve done exactly what you just did but rooted my statements in facts and examples of how the game is actually played and when I did this my posts would get deleted. I hope your post stays up so ppl see how foolish you’ve made yourself look.

Sorry! Had I known I needed to provide you of all people with details and data backing up my argument then I would have done so. Do you, a veteran warrior, need much reasoning to why that wouldn’t be in the slightest over powered for the warrior? I mean come on, you’re a pretty smart guy/gal

I’ve got better things to do then to give you details and structured analysis on how much an impact protection would be to the warrior class so I’ll just…generalize.

1. We know both classes have access to the same armor possible.
2. We know the guardian has about 11k base health and the warrior has 18k. So we are looking at approximately, 700 vitality points required to put them on par.
3. We know the guardian has access to more means to heal and mitigate damage because they have 7k less health and need a way to sustain themselves for the difference. Even if a guardian packs on full knights and get around…what 3.4k armor, do you think that will reduce enough damage to make 11k meaningful?
4. We know the warrior has access to some forms of damage mitigation, we have: Defy Pain, Endure Pain, and Shield Stance. Also, some pretty lame 1 attack blocks from attacks that most players don’t use but I don’t try to count those because they’re irrelevant.
5. Another form of sustain would be passive/active healing. Inspiring Battle Standard, Adrenal Health, Vigorous Shouts and healing signet. Dogged March has a little regen but nothing crazy right? Warriors have access to vigor with a few means like horn, vigorous focus, furious reaction, and maybe runes but we won’t count runes since everyone has access to them.
6. Without dragging this out, we’ll just say guardians have more ways to cleanse conditions. It’s obvious in a scenario, with 11k health those conditions will eat through a guardian faster than a warrior. So they need them right?

Let me get to my point. If you give protection to a warrior in the state they are in now with the superior offense and mobility, you will create a monster of a class that will have options to not only pump out heavy damage but also mitigate it. I could go in to detail even more but maybe another time when I can formulate my thoughts without distractions. Just understand there are a lot of factors that will play in to the decision to give warriors protection. If you can give me a reason why they should get it and not a blanket generalization or a comparison to another class then by all means, knock yourself out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IIKjxfuKBqw#t=2951s

well john sharp admit the healing is quite bad.

expect warrior buffs on the next balance patch

Furajir.3815:

Why isn’t this kid part of the Dev team?

He has plenty of suggestions, I won’t doubt his passion for the class and his desire to see them rise but a lot of his ideas are never well thought out and he tries to get a little to in-depth which backfires on his idea to "balance" the class. Just go through his post history.

Which leads to the consistent amount of suggestions that fill up the forums from him. It seems the moderators have been moving them to the suggestion forum which I do hope that they can catch some dev’s eye and the dev can take that idea and implement a calculate version that I can use some day.

If you were being sarcastic, well... that was my initial reaction and thought you haven’t read anything yet!

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to add projectile reflection into this trait, especially seeing as the block is on a 30s default CD, but you don’t care about the 90 toughness?

“90 toughness is barely anything, it doesn’t actually help at all, whuuaaahhhh”

Well, a heavy armor helmet has a 107 defense value by default, so deciding that the +90 toughness is like deciding that the defense value from your helmet is not worth anything. Yet you probably wouldn’t run around without your helmet, even if you could gain the attribute bonuses and rune slot it would give. Yet the +90 toughness from the trait just gets snubbed… I don’t think that’s particularly insightful. Hell, the +90 toughness from the trait actually provides more defense than the default value of the shield itself (which is 61).

The reason the trait is the way it is now is because it puts it on par with the shield traits for the guardian and engineer. I don’t really see them giving this trait anything extra unless they also give the engineer and guardian something extra on theirs as well.

If you delete that 3rd point about the block on heal, this would actually be a much more reasonable suggestion. I also see quite a bit of warriors running shield, especially with axe, so I’m not sure where this idea that shield is not being used comes from. It’s certainly being used more than mace (MH & OH), OH axe, and OH sword.

before I read that wall you wrote I’d like to try a lil something. I bet what you wrote is a mindless diatribe of tooltip quotes and fairy tale logic peppered with how warrior’s have it so much better than guardians in rainbow land.

75/25 its that I hope not but since I’m playing the actual game I’ll read it in a while. You might even surprise me?

Yamsandjams.3267:

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to add projectile reflection into this trait, especially seeing as the block is on a 30s default CD, but you don’t care about the 90 toughness?

“90 toughness is barely anything, it doesn’t actually help at all, whuuaaahhhh”

Well, a heavy armor helmet has a 107 defense value by default, so deciding that the +90 toughness is like deciding that the defense value from your helmet is not worth anything. Yet you probably wouldn’t run around without your helmet, even if you could gain the attribute bonuses and rune slot it would give. Yet the +90 toughness from the trait just gets snubbed… I don’t think that’s particularly insightful. Hell, the +90 toughness from the trait actually provides more defense than the default value of the shield itself (which is 61).

The reason the trait is the way it is now is because it puts it on par with the shield traits for the guardian and engineer. I don’t really see them giving this trait anything extra unless they also give the engineer and guardian something extra on theirs as well.

If you delete that 3rd point about the block on heal, this would actually be a much more reasonable suggestion. I also see quite a bit of warriors running shield, especially with axe, so I’m not sure where this idea that shield is not being used comes from. It’s certainly being used more than mace (MH & OH), OH axe, and OH sword.

Actually its because once you get such high toughness (what tanks usually go for, thus why they picked up the shield in the first place.) it becomes less, less and less because of diminishing returns.

90 Toughness is absolutely crap after you get 2750, after that mark the scaling goes down dramatically.

However, if your in FULL BERSERKER gear, that trait is awesome!

loseridoit.2756:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IIKjxfuKBqw#t=2951s

well john sharp admit the healing is quite bad.

expect warrior buffs on the next balance patch

This is where I think the real problem is. If you ask me, the cooldowns on the warrior heals are just a bit too long… at least mending and healing surge, I haven’t played around with healing signet enough to give a comment based on personal experience.

I think if they just dropped the cooldowns on healing surge and mending by 5 seconds each, that would help out significantly. At the very least, they could provide some way to trait them down. I guess you can trait down healing signet, but again I haven’t used that one too much.

I say this because of my experience with engineer. The healing skills for engineer are all in the 20-25 second range by default, and some of them can be traited down to as low as 15 seconds. In particular, elixir H can be traited from it’s default of 25 seconds to 20 seconds. This makes the ability much more valuable, especially when used in an elixir build. Without the cooldown reduction, elixir H is a much less attractive option compared to the other healing skills.

If the engineer’s healing skills had 25-30 second cooldowns by default and no way to trait them down, the profession would have a notable problem with sustain unless they used a very defensive spec.

Engineers also take so much less damage, lots of protection, infinite vigor goes a long long way to making them survive. Warriors don’t have that luxary.

AlBundy.7851:

before I read that wall you wrote I’d like to try a lil something. I bet what you wrote is a mindless diatribe of tooltip quotes and fairy tale logic peppered with how warrior’s have it so much better than guardians in rainbow land.

75/25 its that I hope not but since I’m playing the actual game I’ll read it in a while. You might even surprise me?

You’d be surprised I actually play a warrior too. Shockingly, I main a guardian. But I have had my share of “kitten , I just got rolled and I can’t think of any other way I could have done that differently.” But that’s the beauty of the game. This game isn’t based on 1v1 so it’s necessary to rely on other classes for support. I actually think warrior should have their offensive abilities and weapon damage boosted to make up for the lack of sustain.

Giving them protection and calling it a day though, is far from balancing.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

AlBundy.7851:

before I read that wall you wrote I’d like to try a lil something. I bet what you wrote is a mindless diatribe of tooltip quotes and fairy tale logic peppered with how warrior’s have it so much better than guardians in rainbow land.

75/25 its that I hope not but since I’m playing the actual game I’ll read it in a while. You might even surprise me?

You’d be surprised I actually play a warrior too. Shockingly, I main a guardian. But I have had my share of “kitten , I just got rolled and I can’t think of any other way I could have done that differently.” But that’s the beauty of the game. This game isn’t based on 1v1 so it’s necessary to rely on other classes for support. I actually think warrior should have their offensive abilities and weapon damage boosted to make up for the lack of sustain.

Giving them protection and calling it a day though, is far from balancing.

Warriors don’t need protection, what we need is better healing (I could argue the need to double all of our healing abilities, and triple some of them while lowering cool-downs because we have little to no access to condition removal AND lack protection.)

We should be monsters who are hard to kill, but not by dodging/evading/protection, but by soaking/healing through the damage.

Another nice feature for shield would be a change to shield 5 so it acts a bit different.

4-1 Shield Block (½) (Cooldown: 25 s.)
Block attacks.
Duration: 3 s

4-2 Shield Bash
Cancel shield block, bash your foe with your shield and stun them.
Damage: 302
Stun: 1 s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 300

5 Shield Stance (½) (Cooldown: 5 seconds.)
Block attacks, lowering damage taken by 40%. Each time you take damage you lose 5 endurance. You can still attack while blocking. If you run out of Endurance you can no longer block.
Duration: 99 s (As long as you have endurance, it will last forever.)

You fight like you have your shield in-front of you.

Daecollo.9578:

Actually its because once you get such high toughness (what tanks usually go for, thus why they picked up the shield in the first place.) it becomes less, less and less because of diminishing returns.

90 Toughness is absolutely crap after you get 2750, after that mark the scaling goes down dramatically.

However, if your in FULL BERSERKER gear, that trait is awesome!

There are no inherent diminishing returns, particularly at the 2750 mark. Nothing in the damage formulas indicate this sort of threshold. The diminishing returns are actually based on the relative attack of your opponent compared to your armor, and they scale in a logarithmic fashion.

I believe it’s also a moot point to mention this. Increasing your armor rating will always increase your damage reduction regardless of how severe the diminishing returns are. Using your 2750 mark as a reference, if an opponent has 2600 attack rating, this will give you 1 – (2600/2750) = 5.45% damage reduction. Adding an extra 90 toughness to this will give you 8.45% damage reduction. That’s an additional 3% reduction in all direct damage received.

In comparison, if you have 3200 armor, that has a damage reduction against a 2600 attack rating of 18.75%, which is boosted to 20.97% damage reduction with the +90% toughness from the shield master trait. That’s approximately 2% additional damage reduction, which can really cause issues for you opponent if they’re relying on their direct damage to kill you.

In further comparison, if you have 2000 armor against an opponent with 2600 attack rating, you will sustain (2600/2000) – 1 = 30.00% extra damage from the opponent. Increasing your armor to 2090 with shield mastery will leave you with 24.40% extra damage from the opponent, for a total of 5.60% damage reduction. While this is a greater amount of damage reduced, you’re still taking 45.37% extra damage than the person with the shield trait and the 3200 base armor rating.

So now let’s say both individuals have 25000 HP and the incoming attacks each do 250 damage. This means that 100 attacks would be required to kill the defender if they and the attacker have equal attack and armor ratings.

In the 3200 armor scenario, the defender will need to be hit 124 times to die, and 127 times to die with the shield trait.

In the 2000 armor scenario, the defender will need to be hit 77 times to die, and 81 times to die with the shield trait.

So in this scenario, the berserker warrior requires 4 extra hits with the shield trait, while the tanky warrior requires 3 extra hits with the shield trait.

So while you may be able to get better numbers out of it in berserker gear (~3.5% extra damage reduction for sake of argument), the benefit will ultimately not heavily favour a berserker warrior with low armor since the extra damage reduction is not significant enough to allow them to sustain many additional hits.

In any case, that extra 90 toughness from the shield trait is not trivial, whether you are berserker or not.

@Above
That’s approximately 2% additional damage reduction, which can really cause issues for you opponent if they’re relying on their direct damage to kill you.

…………………………………………………

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment

That has potential to be -48% Damage Reduction, that could really cause an issue to someone trying to kill you with direct damage! (And that isn’t even added with toughness!)

I’m sorry friend, but that is very trivial, its not worth it at all.

Let me get to my point. If you give protection to a warrior in the state they are in now with the superior offense and mobility, you will create a monster of a class that will have options to not only pump out heavy damage but also mitigate it.

You have to be joking right? You’re just messing with me right? That’s a joke right? You’ve never played a warrior come on man lol

Daecollo.9578:

@Above
That’s approximately 2% additional damage reduction, which can really cause issues for you opponent if they’re relying on their direct damage to kill you.

…………………………………………………

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment

That has potential to be -48% Damage Reduction, that could really cause an issue to someone trying to kill you with direct damage! (And that isn’t even added with toughness!)

I’m sorry friend, but that is very trivial, its not worth it at all.

Why are you even comparing the toughness bonus to boons and signets? The protection is temporary and can be converted or removed, and both must be acquired through utility or weapon skills. As such, they should be more powerful.

Not to mention that is a guardian signet and doesn’t apply to warriors at all… a more valid comparison would be comparing signet of judgement to dolyak signet. However, this is a completely different discussion than anything to do with the shield trait.

In this case, dolyak signet will provide 4.33% additional damage reduction to a 3200 armor character, and an additional 10.78% damage reduction to a 2000 armor warrior… so oddly enough, dolyak signet can actually be slightly more potent than signet of judgement for a warrior with very low armor. I do believe that signet of judgement would probably be the stronger one on the whole though, despite its active effect not being as strong. Coupled with the shield trait, this can be boosted to 6-12% damage reduction overall for a warrior, which again is not trivial.

The extra 90 toughness from the trait is also a constant effect that will work on every attack and cannot be negated in any way. Protection is useless if it is stripped/stolen/converted, and the signet effect will do nothing if it’s popped (unless traited), but the shield bonus will always be in effect. It makes sense that the damage reduction is much less powerful in this regard, but that doesn’t mean it’s worth ignoring.

I do also have to agree with Al somewhat… having that sort of damage reduction with that sort of damage output could be quite scary. Other professions can perhaps do that, but no one said that other professions weren’t OP. I don’t think making the warrior OP will help anything though.

Toughness has a diminishing value the more you have, which you denied me earlier.

I want my warrior to fit the VERY same description it was given when I started it:
“As a heavily armored soldier profession, warriors are only second to guardians in terms of enduring punishment.”

See this Post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-The-Real-Class-Description/first#post2092097

Currently, we are the WORST class at at enduring punishment.

Daecollo.9578:

My heal only heals for about 22-25% of my life, while the guardian one heals for 60-80% of their life. Therefore there heals are bigger by default. I am not lieing.

Guardians take a lot less damage. Bigger health does not mean anything, only how much damage you take over time comparatively, which means Warrior heals are a lot worse.

This logic, that since you have bigger health pools you need to heal better, only really holds up vs attacks that work off your Max HP (read: Agony). No one has attacks based off how high your HP is (taking off more and more the higher it is) so Max HP functions like ablative armor: you’ll have to absorbed nearly as much as a full HP bar of an Elementalist/Guardian/Thief to bring you to half. Anything further and those mentioned classes would be dead while your Warrior is only breaking 33%.

Considering if a Thief crits my elementalist from stealth for 6k, now I’m at less than 50% while a Warrior won’t even past 66%. Lower health needs to heal ‘more’ to survive because of that but they don’t inherently. All heals are generally balanced to give you relatively the same HP/sec with a few exception (Healing Signet, Mirror and Shelter being some bad ones and Ether Feast and Troll Unguent being some really good heals). If anything, equality of heals should be kept as static as possible, no one healing for absurd amounts over others or inherently lower numbers with respect to whatever utility is wrapped in said heals.

That said, the idea of the OP itself: it’s likely a given that Deflect Missiles and Shield Mastery will be rolled into one. I don’t feel it’s that necessary to tack on more to that. There might be a possibility of rolling other traits to add more active defense into. One I mentioned as a previous idea, a trait that grants effects when you activate signets. Everyone else has one (and I bet they’ll get rolled into other traits and/or improved…I mean, look at Beastmaster’s Might and Deep Strikes…Blurred Inscription isn’t horrible but also not terribly useful on its own).

Something like Shielded Signet, block attacks when activating signets, kind of gives you more active defense if the blocks were on count (i.e. block 2 attacks) or a period after it. Also, if Dolyak signet were made a stun breaker that would be 2 signets that are instant, that brings in more active defense depending on build.

I do also have to agree with Al somewhat… having that sort of damage reduction with that sort of damage output could be quite scary. Other professions can perhaps do that, but no one said that other professions weren’t OP. I don’t think making the warrior OP will help anything though.

Reading that is so ridiculous other classes are op and warrior’s would be scary and op if we got stuff like they have that’s called balance. My god the warrior forums where ppl argue against the warrior class being competitive fml.

@Above, THANK YOU LEO G.

Yes, some things are OP, but if you think about it like it is now in SPvP, here is why Warriors are failing.

Say both Ele/Warrior have Soldiers Amulet, Lets say the warrior has 3000 toughness and the Ele has 2750 Toughness.

Ele has 33% damage reduction, Warrior has 35% damage reduction.

Now add protection, the Ele now has 66% damage reduction.

Lets say a I got crit for 10k backstab on my Ele.

My HP is 11k, I got hit for 7000 from backstab.
7000 is now 2380.

My HP is 18k, I got hit for 7000 from backstab.
7000 is now 4550.

Now look at Elementalist heals, then ours. Even though we have 65% more HP, we took 47% more damage, our healing also is WORSE and condition removal worse in every way.

We have big HP numbers, but without the healing/mitigation/condition removal to back it up we are left in the dust.

AlBundy.7851:

I do also have to agree with Al somewhat… having that sort of damage reduction with that sort of damage output could be quite scary. Other professions can perhaps do that, but no one said that other professions weren’t OP. I don’t think making the warrior OP will help anything though.

Reading that is so ridiculous other classes are op and warrior’s would be scary and op if we got stuff like they have that’s called balance. My god the warrior forums where ppl argue against the warrior class being competitive fml.

Or we just understand the potential of the warrior where others miss that. Unless you live in the Mists and play spvp all the time, I have no dog in that fight. I don’t play spvp.

Ahhhh, my bad, didn’t catch the sarcasm there, haha.

I don’t think they really need a large amount of protection though. They need some other things, but I don’t think they need that, especially with both heavy armor and high HP.

Daecollo.9578:

Toughness has a diminishing value the more you have, which you denied me earlier.

I want my warrior to fit the VERY same description it was given when I started it:
“As a heavily armored soldier profession, warriors are only second to guardians in terms of enduring punishment.”

See this Post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-The-Real-Class-Description/first#post2092097

Currently, we are the WORST class at at enduring punishment.

Actually, I pointed out that the diminishing returns follow a logarithmic pattern that is dependent upon your relative armor against your opponent’s relative attack. The way you stated it earlier seemed to indicate there was an arbitrary threshold level, which is not the case, and did not provide any numerical examples to demonstrate the claims.

Regardless, what exactly do you consider enduring punishment? I don’t think that term has any inherent meaning as far as the game is concerned and it sounds like a marketing term used to provide prospective players with a very general description. As such, I wouldn’t treat it like a bible to follow or contract that ANet has entered into.

You’re proposing adding some block-on-heal mechanic here to allows warriors to meet this description, but there’s actually only one class that has this ability, two if you count a mesmer’s mirror, three if you consider shield engg. Yet the other professions that don’t have this ability are still more effective at enduring punishment according to your claim, so I doubt it’s simply due to having a block on a heal.

I think the real issue you’re trying to get at is the overall difficulty with warrior sustain, although I don’t think having the shield mastery trait letting you be like a pseudo-guardian is really going to go a long way to helping that. Lower cooldowns on heal skills or an increase in heal potency/more condition cures would probably be a better way to go about that, no?

I am just throwing out many ideas. I don’t care if they are ignored or not taken. However I believe the more interesting ideas that are put on the table, the more we can improve our class.

Or we just understand the potential of the warrior where others miss that. Unless you live in the Mists and play spvp all the time, I have no dog in that fight. I don’t play spvp.

::Beats head on wall repeatedly:: So you’re coming from a solely wvw pve perspective?

I’d like to see Shield Mastery moved to the adept level and rolled into Missile Deflection. Combined, I think it would be a better adept trait.

AlBundy.7851:

Or we just understand the potential of the warrior where others miss that. Unless you live in the Mists and play spvp all the time, I have no dog in that fight. I don’t play spvp.

::Beats head on wall repeatedly:: So you’re coming from a solely wvw pve perspective?

Correct. I don’t believe it was said from the beginning which perspective we should have been taking. I play WvW only where Warriors are viable. If they made changes specifically for spvp, I wouldn’t care at all.

I’m sorry but Warriors are going to probably be nerfed for WvWvW and buffed a lot in sustain/taking punishment so they stand a chance in Spvp.

Hammer Warriors missile spec is probably going to take a nerf, but hammers themselves buffed a lot in sustain moreso then burst damage.

A lot of useless underused traits are getting merged for more condition removal/more sustain/damage reduction options.

Our heals are going to be doubled, probably from what i’ve seen, and we need it.

"Warriors don’t need protection, what we need is better healing (I could argue the need to double all of our healing abilities, and triple some of them while lowering cool-downs because we have little to no access to condition removal AND lack protection.)

We should be monsters who are hard to kill, but not by dodging/evading/protection, but by soaking/healing through the damage.

Another nice feature for shield would be a change to shield 5 so it acts a bit different.

*4-1* _*Shield Block*_ (½) (Cooldown: 25 s.)
Block attacks.
Duration: 3 s

*4-2* _*Shield Bash*_
Cancel shield block, bash your foe with your shield and stun them.
Damage: 302
Stun: 1 s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 300

*5* _*Shield Stance*_ (½) (Cooldown: 5 seconds.)
Block attacks, lowering damage taken by 40%. Each time you take damage you lose 5 endurance. You can still attack while blocking. If you run out of Endurance you can no longer block.
Duration: 99 s (As long as you have endurance, it will last forever.)

*You fight like you have your shield in-front of you.*"
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I do like this idea actually. I never understood why Anet thought that having a shield with two long cds and +90 toughness would equal proper use of the shield. Shield is something you actively use while in combat. Though the duration may need to be toned down a bit.

If you are at 0 endurance, you gain 5% endurance every second for a max of 10% per second (vigor). 5% per second = 20 seconds to regen full endurance. With that in mind, you would need to adjust the consumption to like 12% per second so that with vigor you would still deplete your endurance but at a much slower rate. A warrior with vigor would have substantial more mitigation and considering the multiple outside sources, I could see Shield stance being on forever while in combat if it was less than 12% consumption.

I would probably make shield stance a toggle and once it’s turned off with a high cooldown. That would encourage smart gameplay and less abuse.

Warriors don’t have access to vigor without using the Warhorn or teammates, and with how many classes can steal/rip off our boons I say its a fair trade.

You also have to bring in the fact that we cannot really dodge while doing this, so we can’t become immune to damage. However we can still fight, which is the trade off.

The thing your not seeing is, if we have Shield in one slot, and Warhorn in the other, then that means we lose out on mobility (Greatsword.), which is another balance to bring weapons in-line with eachother.

When ya make ideas ya gotta think of every lil thing.

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors don’t have access to vigor without using the Warhorn or teammates, and with how many classes can steal/rip off our boons I say its a fair trade.

You also have to bring in the fact that we cannot really dodge while doing this, so we can’t become immune to damage. However we can still fight, which is the trade off.

The thing your not seeing is, if we have Shield in one slot, and Warhorn in the other, then that means we lose out on mobility (Greatsword.), which is another balance to bring weapons in-line with eachother.

When ya make ideas ya gotta think of every lil thing.

Sacrificing comes with build making. If you use a mainhand axe, you can make a decent warrior build that uses the f1 burst

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors don’t have access to vigor without using the Warhorn or teammates, and with how many classes can steal/rip off our boons I say its a fair trade.

You also have to bring in the fact that we cannot really dodge while doing this, so we can’t become immune to damage. However we can still fight, which is the trade off.

The thing your not seeing is, if we have Shield in one slot, and Warhorn in the other, then that means we lose out on mobility (Greatsword.), which is another balance to bring weapons in-line with eachother.

When ya make ideas ya gotta think of every lil thing.

Warrior does have other options besides warhorn as well. You can’t look at every situation as a 1v1 either. If you do from a spvp standpoint you will have other sources of vigor as well.

I’m not sure how tourneys go if that’s the normal situation where you find yourself in a 1v1 or 1v2. Signet of Stamina, Furious Reaction, Vigorous Focus and Building Momentum. If your idea goes through, those traits may be used more often.

I don’t understand how you think warriors are viable in wvw and by looking at your tag your on blackgate? I just went into every borderlands and eb and every blackgate zerg was a guardian train steamroll no warriors. Every small group was ranger, ele, thief and a few mesmers no warriors.

I think you should quit with the tooltip quoting it’s getting old you really have no idea how warriors are played or have a decent understanding of the class other than reading warrior abilities off a skill calculator.

AlBundy.7851:

I don’t understand how you think warriors are viable in wvw and by looking at your tag your on blackgate? I just went into every borderlands and eb and every blackgate zerg was a guardian train steamroll no warriors. Every small group was ranger, ele, thief and a few mesmers no warriors.

I think you should quit with the tooltip quoting it’s getting old you really have no idea how warriors are played or have a decent understanding of the class other than reading warrior abilities off a skill calculator.

Well I doubt I’ll run in to you since you live in spvp. If you find a large black norn warrior packing a hammer with the ATac tag then know you probably saw me. If you are in Tier 1 then you are either SoR or JQ.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

I’d like to see Shield Mastery moved to the adept level and rolled into Missile Deflection. Combined, I think it would be a better adept trait.

That sounds like a bit too much for an adept trait… If it gets rolled into one, I think it’s fine at the master level. Either that or they perhaps don’t roll it into one and just drop the trait down, but they don’t seem to really adjust the position of the traits too much. I guess it depends how many changes will occur in that line (I’m expecting at least 2-3).

AlBundy.7851:

I don’t understand how you think warriors are viable in wvw and by looking at your tag your on blackgate? I just went into every borderlands and eb and every blackgate zerg was a guardian train steamroll no warriors. Every small group was ranger, ele, thief and a few mesmers no warriors.

I think you should quit with the tooltip quoting it’s getting old you really have no idea how warriors are played or have a decent understanding of the class other than reading warrior abilities off a skill calculator.

I’ve fought plenty of great warriors in WvW, some I beat, others I lost too.

Regarding small groups, warriors can work well by providing party swiftness with warhorn and can swap sword and greatsword for very high macro-mobility (that is, out of combat mobility).

I met a pretty kitten fearsome ele and warrior duo earlier in the week, actually. Warrior was something like mace+shield/axe+mace… I think anyways, might’ve been hammer or greatword in there, I know he had a shield for sure though. The two of them could easily annihilate soloers through continual CC (10+ seconds with no stun break), and they could chase you down fairly easily. They had no problem against groups of 3-5 either, although they didn’t deliberately engage larger groups since they would just die.

As far as zergs go, warriors are great for zerg swiftness and can have a lot of options depending on your group composition. I’ve used a 30/0/30/0/10 build with hammer/rifle and felt it was decent, especially since the CC can really shut down individual players. Although I’m sure others can come up with other things that are more robust.

I’ve been wanting to try a support-spec warrior for zerging, but I’m not prepared to invest in the gear yet.

wow you met some players ganking solo ppl in wvw that’s impressive. Warrior’s have aoe swiftness this is really neat. Warrios do well in zergs ohh man this is gold. Thanks a bunch!!!

AlBundy.7851:

wow you met some players ganking solo ppl in wvw that’s impressive. Warrior’s have aoe swiftness this is really neat. Warrios do well in zergs ohh man this is gold. Thanks a bunch!!!

Glad I could help you out by providing that information. It’s sometimes not obvious exactly what capabilities you have until you have a lot of in-game experience, so you should make sure to try out everything. Practice makes perfect, as they say.