Guild Wars 2

Yo im wondering why Physical Training(Physical utility skills do 100% more damage and recharge 20% faster.) paired with Powerful Banners(Banners do damage when summoned.) and Inspiring Banners(Banners apply their bonuses to a larger area. Banners recharge 20% faster.) doesnt apply the 100% dmg or the extra 20% cooldown reduction to banners. So banners aren’t considered physical utilities when the Physical Training trait is activated?

Bulls charge,Kick,Stomp and Throw Bolas are Physical utilitity skills,banners are not.So the trait only applies to the skills mentioned.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Physical

they are considered Physical Utility skills cause theyre the only warrior skills that deal dmg in the utility slots, so like i was saying with the trait that gives banners dmg why doesnt Physical Training apply to it.

Raptorious Big.5416:

they are considered Physical Utility skills cause theyre the only warrior skills that deal dmg in the utility slots, so like i was saying with the trait that gives banners dmg why doesnt Physical Training apply to it.

They are not Physicial utility skills,check the wiki page i linked.A banner is an skill type wich has its own skill bar with enviromental weapon skills and one attack skill,that’s different than an actuall Physical utility skill like Stomp.

you don’t get it……

I’m talking about the initial activation of the skill, because its not on your 1-5 when you throw it down, its in your utility slots.

Raptorious Big.5416:

you don’t get it……

I do get it,but you don’t.Simply put..The traits dont effect the banners because they are in the first place,Not Physical Utility skills to begin with…Like Stomp.

Raptorious Big.5416:

you don’t get it……

You’re the one who’s misunderstanding Physical Training. It only applies to a specific type of utilities. If you look at Warrior utilities, you’ll see that the description starts with one of the words Physical, Banner, Signet, Stance or Shout.

Physical Training only applies to the type of utilities that fall under the Physical category. It has nothing to do with dealing physical damage. The wording is just confusing, it should be “Physical-type utility skills” rather than “Physical utility skills”.

OMG, what i am saying is, is that Banners should take on the physical tooltip when powerful banners is activated. Throwing Bolas is a ranged skill and so is activating a banner utility, your throwing down a banner into the ground.

this is more of a question towards the developers and not you common forum browsers, Support is appreciated though.

Raptorious Big.5416:

OMG, what i am saying is, is that Banners should take on the physical tooltip when powerful banners is activated. Throwing Bolas is a ranged skill and so is activating a banner utility, your throwing down a banner into the ground.

That would be pretty imbalanced. For one, the banners have a duration of 95 seconds, but with a total of 40% cooldown reduction, their cooldown would be just 72 seconds, allowing for 23 seconds of having twice the effects.

Also, it would make the damage from Power Banners rather imbalanced, considering that you can put up 4 banners in a quick succession.

Again it wouldnt be up to you to tweak cooldowns and such. Banners atm do about 2k+ if its a crit, and depending on your power which isnt that high.

Edit: and considering that’s every 93 seconds traited, 120 untraited, and 192/240 on the elite which deals the same dmg.

Olba.5376:

Raptorious Big.5416:

OMG, what i am saying is, is that Banners should take on the physical tooltip when powerful banners is activated. Throwing Bolas is a ranged skill and so is activating a banner utility, your throwing down a banner into the ground.

That would be pretty imbalanced. For one, the banners have a duration of 95 seconds, but with a total of 40% cooldown reduction, their cooldown would be just 72 seconds, allowing for 23 seconds of having twice the effects.

Also, it would make the damage from Power Banners rather imbalanced, considering that you can put up 4 banners in a quick succession.

What are you talking about? Banner effects don’t even stack with other Warrior Banners. Two warriors using banner of strength only get the stats of 1 of those banners. Only Battle Standard stacks because it doesn’t give a unikittenfect, just boons which are stackable.

As for the OP’s suggestion (that’s pretty much what it is), I wouldn’t mind Physical Training changed to encompass all utilities (not racial or elites) that do damage. Would that really be overpowered?

That would be overpowered as hell. Banners can already crit for 3k in an AoE when summoned. This trait would make them crit for 6k in an AoE. Drop 4 banners on a group of enemies who are already occupied in a fight and boom, you just critted for 24k per target in an AoE.

This makes no sense from a balance perspective and the wording is irrelevant because even if it is too confusing for people, that’s not a reason to give banners another traited cooldown reduction and a boost to another trait’s damage, only a reason to change the words.

After reading each and every post on this thread…
I think it’s a lack of clear communication and fail grammar that is causing a lot of confusion…

Anyways, back on topic..
Banners are not considered physical utilities as many have stated.
Also, about your idea of traits changing banners into physical utilities… I think Argis summed it up pretty nicely.
Banners have pretty good range and there would be a wave of crying if that were to ever happen. Hahaha, that would be hilarious though… Warriors throwing down banners for offense….

your on the wrong forum section, you probably think warriors are OP.

Raptorious Big.5416:

your on the wrong forum section, you probably think warriors are OP.

I’m assuming that you are talking to me since you replied about ten minutes after mine.
That being assumed, I’m on the correct section if this is the Warrior forums.

If you have read any of my posts, you would realize that I am well aware, as is every other warrior, of the pitiful state of warriors in sPvP (not WvWvW or PvE).

Raptorious Big.5416:

this is more of a question towards the developers and not you common forum browsers, Support is appreciated though.

I think you make it rather clear here that you are in the wrong section.
I believe there is a section dedicated to suggestions if you want to categorize your thread as such. Also, you’re hardly garnering support with your posts… just saying

this is the warrior section bud, where you discuss topics pertaining to warriors.

Should Shouts become Healing Skills when traited with Vigorous Shouts? No

Every class has different skill types. Warrio has Banner, Stance, Shout, Physical, and Signet skills. Banners should remain Banner skills because they are Banners, and if they changed to Physical skills they would no longer be affected by traits in the Tactics line

Healing skills are located in the healing slot, while shouts are located in the utilities slots.

Argis.7049:

That would be overpowered as hell. Banners can already crit for 3k in an AoE when summoned. This trait would make them crit for 6k in an AoE. Drop 4 banners on a group of enemies who are already occupied in a fight and boom, you just critted for 24k per target in an AoE.

Overpowered? Wouldn’t that just make it ‘worth it’ to use that GM trait + 4 banner utilities? That means you won’t have things like endure pain or sig of stamina and stuff or any sort of stun breakers.

And let’s not forget interruptible cast time.

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

That would be overpowered as hell. Banners can already crit for 3k in an AoE when summoned. This trait would make them crit for 6k in an AoE. Drop 4 banners on a group of enemies who are already occupied in a fight and boom, you just critted for 24k per target in an AoE.

Overpowered? Wouldn’t that just make it ‘worth it’ to use that GM trait + 4 banner utilities? That means you won’t have things like endure pain or sig of stamina and stuff or any sort of stun breakers.

And let’s not forget interruptible cast time.

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst (120k if you hit 5 targets) without using any actual attack skills is overpowered in something like a WvW setting or Forest of Niflhel where you can drop them on unsuspecting palyers from a safe range, then I don’t know what else to tell you. Those numbers are also from SPvP. You can get the banners to hit MUCH harder in WvW. Not to mention that after you drop the banners you can use Longbow3 and F1 for even more AoE. Nobody should ever be able to lay down that much AoE burst damage from range. The last thing Warriors need right now is another damage buff. We need sustain.

Argis.7049:

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst

Are you forgetting that it’s not a 24k burst? But split up into 4 attacks which each have a 1 sec activation (one of them having a longer activation than that)?

But I’m not so much speaking on the premise of 24k AoE damage but more along the topic of making that trait more useful. Whatever the damage it’d do, it could be tweeked individually so it’s not straight up doubling the damage (wouldn’t be the first trait that says one thing but affects skills individually different).

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst

Are you forgetting that it’s not a 24k burst? But split up into 4 attacks which each have a 1 sec activation (one of them having a longer activation than that)?

But I’m not so much speaking on the premise of 24k AoE damage but more along the topic of making that trait more useful. Whatever the damage it’d do, it could be tweeked individually so it’s not straight up doubling the damage (wouldn’t be the first trait that says one thing but affects skills individually different).

24k in 5 seconds is burst. Show me another profession that can do that kind of damage at range in that time frame and maybe I’ll change my opinion. As for your second statement, now you’re beginning to talk about trait redesign and are discussing something completely different than what the OP suggested. The OP’s suggestion was that banners be considered physical utilities so that they receive a 100% damage boost and an additional 20% CD reduction…and to that I say no.

Lol. Troll’d….

Argis.7049:

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst

Are you forgetting that it’s not a 24k burst? But split up into 4 attacks which each have a 1 sec activation (one of them having a longer activation than that)?

But I’m not so much speaking on the premise of 24k AoE damage but more along the topic of making that trait more useful. Whatever the damage it’d do, it could be tweeked individually so it’s not straight up doubling the damage (wouldn’t be the first trait that says one thing but affects skills individually different).

24k in 5 seconds is burst. Show me another profession that can do that kind of damage at range in that time frame and maybe I’ll change my opinion. As for your second statement, now you’re beginning to talk about trait redesign and are discussing something completely different than what the OP suggested. The OP’s suggestion was that banners be considered physical utilities so that they receive a 100% damage boost and an additional 20% CD reduction…and to that I say no.

Technically, it’s 6 seconds because Battle Standard has an activation of 2 seconds. I’m sure you can get that kind of DPS with another set-up. I mean, have you seen WvW rifle builds? 16k in a little over 2 seconds from 1500 range and can pierce multiple targets which only requires 1 specific trait for it.

I guess now you’re going to add the stipulation of “well who can do 24k in 3 seconds with only 4 utilities!?!” to which I’ll just say I give up. You can win the argument if that’s what you want.

And redesigning a trait to work differently isn’t ‘completely different’ from what the OP is bringing up since that’s exactly what the OP is about. Answer this with a yes or no and I’ll at least concede to the point of it being overpowered: Is changing Physical Training to work with other utilities besides Physical types redesigning a trait?

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst

Are you forgetting that it’s not a 24k burst? But split up into 4 attacks which each have a 1 sec activation (one of them having a longer activation than that)?

But I’m not so much speaking on the premise of 24k AoE damage but more along the topic of making that trait more useful. Whatever the damage it’d do, it could be tweeked individually so it’s not straight up doubling the damage (wouldn’t be the first trait that says one thing but affects skills individually different).

24k in 5 seconds is burst. Show me another profession that can do that kind of damage at range in that time frame and maybe I’ll change my opinion. As for your second statement, now you’re beginning to talk about trait redesign and are discussing something completely different than what the OP suggested. The OP’s suggestion was that banners be considered physical utilities so that they receive a 100% damage boost and an additional 20% CD reduction…and to that I say no.

Technically, it’s 6 seconds because Battle Standard has an activation of 2 seconds. I’m sure you can get that kind of DPS with another set-up. I mean, have you seen WvW rifle builds? 16k in a little over 2 seconds from 1500 range and can pierce multiple targets which only requires 1 specific trait for it.

I guess now you’re going to add the stipulation of “well who can do 24k in 3 seconds with only 4 utilities!?!” to which I’ll just say I give up. You can win the argument if that’s what you want.

And redesigning a trait to work differently isn’t ‘completely different’ from what the OP is bringing up since that’s exactly what the OP is about. Answer this with a yes or no and I’ll at least concede to the point of it being overpowered: Is changing Physical Training to work with other utilities besides Physical types redesigning a trait?

No. it’s 5 seconds. 2+1+1+1=5. You realize in WvW you can get the banners to crit for nearly 4-5k? That means 8-10k per banner with the suggested change. That means a 36-40k burst per target. You wanna compare that to the rifle build? That will equal the rifle’s burst with 2 banners in 2 seconds. And good luck getting the rifle to pierce more than 3 targets. You want a little survivability? Swap out a banner for your skill of choice…or 2. Even only dropping 3 banners is bursting harder than 100 blades at range. Nearly the same channel time for both bursts. The difference is one is at range and significantly harder to dodge and hits 5 targets in an AoE. If you really think that would be balanced then I’m done with this conversation.

As for your final question, yes that is technically redesigning a trait but you were suggesting going much further (changing damage values, and you would have to change the CD reduction as well or else you give banners a 70ish second CD). I’m not saying no to a trait redesign but the OP’s initial suggestion was simply absurd.

A physical utility skill is exactly what it states a PHYSICAL UTILITY SKILL that you place on your bar from 7-9. So I don’t get what the confusion is here, it is a god kitten banner that has a blast finisher when you place it down. It has NOTHING to do with what it says on your tooltips from 1-5.

to OP:

I got your reasoning but it is wrong. In the same way Shouts Heal would turn Shouts into healing spells so that runes/traits that affect them would affect shouts as well (ie. shouts would be affected by Restorative Strength).

I understand where you are going with this but it’s the wrong direction.

WolfHeart.1256:

(ie. shouts would be affected by Restorative Strength)

Lol, do that and make it so that the removal on Soldier Runes comes after that. You would make a lot of warriors happy.

This thread was an amusing read.

that’d be tight shouts being considered healing skills

Argis.7049:

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst

Are you forgetting that it’s not a 24k burst? But split up into 4 attacks which each have a 1 sec activation (one of them having a longer activation than that)?

But I’m not so much speaking on the premise of 24k AoE damage but more along the topic of making that trait more useful. Whatever the damage it’d do, it could be tweeked individually so it’s not straight up doubling the damage (wouldn’t be the first trait that says one thing but affects skills individually different).

24k in 5 seconds is burst. Show me another profession that can do that kind of damage at range in that time frame and maybe I’ll change my opinion. As for your second statement, now you’re beginning to talk about trait redesign and are discussing something completely different than what the OP suggested. The OP’s suggestion was that banners be considered physical utilities so that they receive a 100% damage boost and an additional 20% CD reduction…and to that I say no.

if it’s 24k dmg TOTAL in aoe than Engie can do it np

Killyox.3950:

Argis.7049:

Leo G.4501:

Argis.7049:

If you don’t understand how a 24k AoE burst

Are you forgetting that it’s not a 24k burst? But split up into 4 attacks which each have a 1 sec activation (one of them having a longer activation than that)?

But I’m not so much speaking on the premise of 24k AoE damage but more along the topic of making that trait more useful. Whatever the damage it’d do, it could be tweeked individually so it’s not straight up doubling the damage (wouldn’t be the first trait that says one thing but affects skills individually different).

24k in 5 seconds is burst. Show me another profession that can do that kind of damage at range in that time frame and maybe I’ll change my opinion. As for your second statement, now you’re beginning to talk about trait redesign and are discussing something completely different than what the OP suggested. The OP’s suggestion was that banners be considered physical utilities so that they receive a 100% damage boost and an additional 20% CD reduction…and to that I say no.

if it’s 24k dmg TOTAL in aoe than Engie can do it np

It’s 120k total, 24k per target.