Guild Wars 2

SlyDevil.3952:

dlonie.6547:

Element Two.7316:

If you think any of that is exclusive to that boss then you’re not playing the same game as us.

But it is! Name one other boss that is near a wall, rock, pole, fence, or has a large hitbox. Betcha can’t.

Crusher/hunter, the second boss of arah p3, lupi and the wraithlord. kitten that’s a whole path. Wait wait, that’s like, one dungeon path right? Arah p4, balthazar, lyssa, lupi(large hitbox, whatevs), dwayna, bloodstone, one boss wasn’t. Wait, that’s just arah right? Coe all start mobs. Alpha if you want, the golem if you want(not recommended, boons and stuff), the next alpha, bjarl for p1, the last alpha. That’s 2 boss on p2/3 that aren’t faster on a wall. AC? spider queen, kholer, last bosses. CM?? PLEASE CM SAVE ME??? barn boss, victoria, frost, thief dude in p2 who is leashed to the other 4 elites in the salon, the OP symbol guardian outside starts with a B, Tremaine, the optional boss, seamus, the other grenade boss, vallog. kitten, only 1 boss wasn’t on a wall there.

Edit: kitten dlonie you filthy elitist

lel. Thanks for helping make the point, though.

Bug Forums.

I actually agree with Nemesis on the dps math there. It’s far superior to use damage log. But like (can’t see the name now, with that forum bug lol) pointed out, the RNG is real. So you need to make a couple of test to have the right number.

It’s also highly variable depending on your team (buff) and the level of skills. So even if it’s a great way to see what is your actual dps. It’s not really practical to compare different profession.

Well see, the way I calculated my DPS on crusher/hunter was so profoundly simple it’s dumbfounding. If he really wants less cherry-picked results, which is ironic as all hell since that’s exactly what he does, then why doesn’t he just grab one of my many other videos?

I’ll do the same thing with Korga if I can figure out his exact hp value, I just don’t know how to set up any DPS meters so I’m gonna have to ask somebody else to get it for me.

Thing is: Even IF you guys do 13k DPS on Warrior instead of 11 (in what, which you admitted yourself, was a unrealistic fight), then it still is lower as the ranged 14k DPS from Nemesis’ Necro one. Ranged means , in theory, a more stable DPS uptime, meaning his example wasn’t as cherrypicked as you claim it was. Well, except if you call "taking a fight that doesn’t only last 5 seconds thx to icebow, when the whole point of the video was that the reason warrior DPS is “higher” is because the fights are so short it is still essentially “burst” " cherrypicking the fight. Imagine this: If Anet actually freaking fix’d Icebow, that would be the type of fights you get. Which, again, was the godkitten point of the video. Warriors still bring way more grouputility to the fight, however, and the results may differ if the warrior took a completely selfish spec, and nobody says anything against that. But in that “specific” scenario : nearly 100% DPS uptime of both warrior and Necro, in a fight not shortended by exploiting Icebow, the Necromancers damage is on par or even slightly higher than a warriors.

I do ackknowledge calling “whirling against the wall” an exploit was stupid though.

Shiki.7148:

Thing is: Even IF you guys do 13k DPS on Warrior instead of 11 (in what, which you admitted yourself, was a unrealistic fight), then it still is lower as the ranged 14k DPS from Nemesis’ Necro one. Ranged means , in theory, a more stable DPS uptime, meaning his example wasn’t as cherrypicked as you claim it was. Well, except if you call "taking a fight that doesn’t only last 5 seconds thx to icebow, when the whole point of the video was that the reason warrior DPS is “higher” is because the fights are so short it is still essentially “burst” " cherrypicking the fight. Imagine this: If Anet actually freaking fix’d Icebow, that would be the type of fights you get. Which, again, was the godkitten point of the video. Warriors still bring way more grouputility to the fight, however, and the results may differ if the warrior took a completely selfish spec, and nobody says anything against that. But in that “specific” scenario : nearly 100% DPS uptime of both warrior and Necro, in a fight not shortended by exploiting Icebow, the Necromancers damage is on par or even slightly higher than a warriors.

I do ackknowledge calling “whirling against the wall” an exploit was stupid though.

While I love me some necro, don’t forget he’s showing the DPS of the 180s reuse Lich Form. Not something you can do with any kind of consistency and if he were say doing the Harpy Fractal he’d be able to hit that for one fight then running into a plethora of practical issues.

I think he makes a good point in that people believe the spreadsheets too much but the idea that he’s proven his claim here? Naw. And, accusing Miku of Cherrypicking while he sits in an Elite form with all the possible group buffs and defenses that you could ask for… pretty disingenuous don’t ya think?

Jerus.4350:

Shiki.7148:

Thing is: Even IF you guys do 13k DPS on Warrior instead of 11 (in what, which you admitted yourself, was a unrealistic fight), then it still is lower as the ranged 14k DPS from Nemesis’ Necro one. Ranged means , in theory, a more stable DPS uptime, meaning his example wasn’t as cherrypicked as you claim it was. Well, except if you call "taking a fight that doesn’t only last 5 seconds thx to icebow, when the whole point of the video was that the reason warrior DPS is “higher” is because the fights are so short it is still essentially “burst” " cherrypicking the fight. Imagine this: If Anet actually freaking fix’d Icebow, that would be the type of fights you get. Which, again, was the godkitten point of the video. Warriors still bring way more grouputility to the fight, however, and the results may differ if the warrior took a completely selfish spec, and nobody says anything against that. But in that “specific” scenario : nearly 100% DPS uptime of both warrior and Necro, in a fight not shortended by exploiting Icebow, the Necromancers damage is on par or even slightly higher than a warriors.

I do ackknowledge calling “whirling against the wall” an exploit was stupid though.

While I love me some necro, don’t forget he’s showing the DPS of the 180s reuse Lich Form. Not something you can do with any kind of consistency and if he were say doing the Harpy Fractal he’d be able to hit that for one fight then running into a plethora of practical issues.

I think he makes a good point in that people believe the spreadsheets too much but the idea that he’s proven his claim here? Naw. And, accusing Miku of Cherrypicking while he sits in an Elite form with all the possible group buffs and defenses that you could ask for… pretty disingenuous don’t ya think?

… “it’s not even true, it’s situational”, “bursting builds fall short in longer engagements”, “builds inadequate for the engagement”, “somethings hybrid, condition and bursting builds are more or less the same because of the circumstances and mechanics of the fight”

Now… if only Nemesis would have also said all this things, oh wait i did…

Are you trying to prove my point that you shouldn’t use bursting builds everywhere ?… That there is no zerker meta ?… I’m confused…

Purple Miku.7032:

I’ll do the same thing with Korga if I can figure out his exact hp value, I just don’t know how to set up any DPS meters so I’m gonna have to ask somebody else to get it for me.

gw2dungeons has you covered – 1,497,440 hp

Nemesis.8593:

Are you trying to prove my point that you shouldn’t use bursting builds everywhere ?… That there is no zerker meta ?… I’m confused…

Nemesis.8593:

Jerus.4350:

Shiki.7148:

Thing is: Even IF you guys do 13k DPS on Warrior instead of 11 (in what, which you admitted yourself, was a unrealistic fight), then it still is lower as the ranged 14k DPS from Nemesis’ Necro one. Ranged means , in theory, a more stable DPS uptime, meaning his example wasn’t as cherrypicked as you claim it was. Well, except if you call "taking a fight that doesn’t only last 5 seconds thx to icebow, when the whole point of the video was that the reason warrior DPS is “higher” is because the fights are so short it is still essentially “burst” " cherrypicking the fight. Imagine this: If Anet actually freaking fix’d Icebow, that would be the type of fights you get. Which, again, was the godkitten point of the video. Warriors still bring way more grouputility to the fight, however, and the results may differ if the warrior took a completely selfish spec, and nobody says anything against that. But in that “specific” scenario : nearly 100% DPS uptime of both warrior and Necro, in a fight not shortended by exploiting Icebow, the Necromancers damage is on par or even slightly higher than a warriors.

I do ackknowledge calling “whirling against the wall” an exploit was stupid though.

While I love me some necro, don’t forget he’s showing the DPS of the 180s reuse Lich Form. Not something you can do with any kind of consistency and if he were say doing the Harpy Fractal he’d be able to hit that for one fight then running into a plethora of practical issues.

I think he makes a good point in that people believe the spreadsheets too much but the idea that he’s proven his claim here? Naw. And, accusing Miku of Cherrypicking while he sits in an Elite form with all the possible group buffs and defenses that you could ask for… pretty disingenuous don’t ya think?

… “it’s not even true, it’s situational”, “bursting builds fall short in longer engagements”, “builds inadequate for the engagement”, “somethings hybrid, condition and bursting builds are more or less the same because of the circumstances and mechanics of the fight”

Now… if only Nemesis would have also said all this things, oh wait i did…

Are you trying to prove my point that you shouldn’t use bursting builds everywhere ?… That there is no zerker meta ?… I’m confused…

I really want to know why people still continue to post in reply to Nemesis or take him into consideration at all.

I know that debating and trying to prove a point is fun – but with some people you just can’t.
My advice to all players that actually know GW2 and how to play it is to ignore Nemesis and his posts and anything related to him. Eventually – seeing how he gets no attention he’ll go away.

Leave his posts at 0 reply and that’ll be it. There’s really no point in giving him anything but no reaction.

My only points are that you’ve been overly confrontational to the point that it’s detracting from your argument, and you’re being inconsistent with your limitations on evidence.

You’ve done a good job showing that necro isn’t nearly as bad as many claim and that reality greatly differs from theory, but then you kept going and you lost me

And as for your quotes, well, what I said wasn’t intended for you it was for the person I quoted, who was discussing Warrior advantage in burst situations while quoting necro burst and discussing it’s strength in sustain… just a pretty inconsistent train of thought don’t you think?

Nemesis.8593:

… “it’s not even true, it’s situational”, “bursting builds fall short in longer engagements”, “builds inadequate for the engagement”, “somethings hybrid, condition and bursting builds are more or less the same because of the circumstances and mechanics of the fight”

Now… if only Nemesis would have also said all this things, oh wait i did…

Are you trying to prove my point that you shouldn’t use bursting builds everywhere ?… That there is no zerker meta ?… I’m confused…

Most meta are build around 30sec rotations. Most of them are even base of shorter rotation.

DnT make sure of that. That,s why they use 30sec rotation and that’s one of their rules for submitting them a rotation video.

- Guardian rotation is 24second
- Warrior is 16 second repeatable and a initial adrenaline pumping on a 60sec CD, which can be drop to 30second with only a lost of like 5% dps for the first 3-4sec of the fight.
- Elementalist is 30second
- Thief it’s like 5second
- Ranger is 20 second
- Engineer is don’t know my fingers hurts

True the Icebow bring must burst to 60 cooldown.

But to reach 14,7k dps on a necro it’s a 180 sec cooldown to repeat it. I mean, that’s a big difference.

Nemesis.8593:

When i asked for footage i asked for one of his best fractal runs, if he has the time… cause i know he is busy with real life stuff as well, and between you and me… pug groups never get to match his numbers… or mine for that matter…
This was about “wannabe elitists-scrubs”, you don’t qualify

Tell you what… give me a better version then Brazil at Bloomhunger, and i will calculate the real DPS… maybe you can squeeze in another 1K…
Just please have combat log opened since i don’t have to use slow motion to add things “extra” manually… i can just get them off the combat log, ok ?…

AAAANDD… please give me one of your Mossman fights… straight up Mossman, maybe no icebow :P… and we’ll calculate the DPS for that as well ?
Ok ?…

You can’t get more realistic then what i am doing… manual adding the damage has a 99% accuracy…

Beat that with your necro please ? Solo setup ? Show us Mr IKnowBetterThanAnyoneElse.

God this thread is absolute gold, lol.

All I gotta say is you guys need to get out more and stop taking this game so seriously. And that’s coming from an agoraphobic who leaves the house about once every 3 – 4 months.

Used WWA to evade through boss instead of away from him.

Reported for exploits.

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

Nemesis do make fair points though in his last response, which is what his vid is about, dont let your hate get in your way, which is also what his vid is about..

But what his point?

- Necromancer don’t have that much less dps than other profession while using an Icebow? We already know that.

- Necromancer have a 8k dps compare to the Warrior 12k in group settings? We already know that.

- Pre buffs is usually not a good idea overall unless you can’t attack the boss right away? I agree with that point.

- Warrior have a lot less dps in solo situation. The DPS difference between necro and warrior in that situation are marginal.? We know that already.

The thing is Nemesis try to beat the meta with DPS numbers and continue to say that Meta is only about DPS DPS. But still, the Necromancer isn’t push out of the meta because of his dps, but because of his support. If DPS was the only thing important, Mesmer would not be part of the meta.

Actually parts what I understood is that randoms now think the Meta is all about certain classes going zerk, not understanding that they arnt going to achieve meta since they dont go icebow (lol), and that they often overextend by pillar hugging n doing stuff that makes the dungeon runs longer – while also dying due to their squishyness as zerks – and that class x has viable/competable weapon variants beyond what metabattle/wiki claims. Meaning he didnt say it was all about the DPS, which the zerk meta is all about.

nacario.9417:

Meaning he didnt say it was all about the DPS, which the zerk meta is all about.

Please educate yourself:

http://gw2dungeons.net/Meta

There is more to the meta than DPS. DPS is quite often sacrificed for utility in meta groups.

I meant it from a randoms/pugs perspective, since its all about being zerk geared and not looking at the rest

Yes, there are meta tryhards (as well as anti-meta tryhards….). The game would be better without them.

Thanks Frifox!

Okay so here was my solo DPS on korga with normal and easily repeatable circumstances, solo setting:

https://youtu.be/HknHJVGbvCY

Korga’s hp: 1,497,440
Total time of kill from first to last hit: 3:55:18 (3 minutes, 55 seconds, 18 milliseconds) or 235.18 seconds.

1497440 / 235.18 = 6367.2, or ~6367 DPS in a solo setting on a boss that’s moving for most of the time and I have much less opportunity to attack him constantly.

Beat my time on this boss on a necro then, someone.

In fact, I will pay in gem codes if you can beat my Korga time with a necro. Hell, possibly more. Let’s put that necro DPS to the test!

puts on glasses to read lame excuses better

I bet it’s gonna be something starting with “but in a group setting…” or “you miss the point”.

Actually I’m not even joking, this is going to be my next monthly giveaway challenge now.

More information will come within a day or so!

inb4 “terrain exploits” and “Korga is linecasting his charge into the wall”

rolls eyes

nacario.9417:

Actually parts what I understood is that randoms now think the Meta is all about certain classes going zerk, not understanding that they arnt going to achieve meta since they dont go icebow (lol), and that they often overextend by pillar hugging n doing stuff that makes the dungeon runs longer – while also dying due to their squishyness as zerks – and that class x has viable/competable weapon variants beyond what metabattle/wiki claims. Meaning he didnt say it was all about the DPS, which the zerk meta is all about.

Now try to imagine how I give a kitten about try hard and bad wannabe meta zerker. I don’t want to talk about them when we talk about what is more or less good. I only talk about them to QQ how bad they are

Most of this video is BS. There is a good point about the meta being designed around ice bow, I’ll give you that.

Whether or not necro does more DPS than warrior is irrelevant because warrior buffs the party’s damage so much.

You claim that party buffing is overrated but your logic doesn’t work when it comes to warrior because dropping banners doesn’t waste a significant amount of time.

SlyDevil.3952:

dlonie.6547:

Element Two.7316:

If you think any of that is exclusive to that boss then you’re not playing the same game as us.

But it is! Name one other boss that is near a wall, rock, pole, fence, or has a large hitbox. Betcha can’t.

Crusher/hunter, the second boss of arah p3, lupi and the wraithlord. kitten that’s a whole path. Wait wait, that’s like, one dungeon path right? Arah p4, balthazar, lyssa, lupi(large hitbox, whatevs), dwayna, bloodstone, one boss wasn’t. Wait, that’s just arah right? Coe all start mobs. Alpha if you want, the golem if you want(not recommended, boons and stuff), the next alpha, bjarl for p1, the last alpha. That’s 2 boss on p2/3 that aren’t faster on a wall. AC? spider queen, kholer, last bosses. CM?? PLEASE CM SAVE ME??? barn boss, victoria, frost, thief dude in p2 who is leashed to the other 4 elites in the salon, the OP symbol guardian outside starts with a B, Tremaine, the optional boss, seamus, the other grenade boss, vallog. kitten, only 1 boss wasn’t on a wall there.

Edit: kitten dlonie you filthy elitist

sarcasm is hard for me too sometimes

You guys argue with so much ferocity as if GW2 wasn’t the easiest PVE on the MMO market….

Name one person here who claims PvE isn’t easy to win in.

Anyone who thinks this is about whether or not it’s easy or difficult to beat content is completely irrelevant to the discussion, so go elsewhere if you’re not interested.

Purple Miku.7032:

Name one person here who claims PvE isn’t easy to win in.

Anyone who thinks this is about whether or not it’s easy or difficult to beat content is completely irrelevant to the discussion, so go elsewhere if you’re not interested.

I think what he’s saying, and also what I was saying, was that you guys need to give it a rest and get some fresh air.

This argument is about the equivalent of the “is this dress blue and gold or black and white” fiasco. = Something pointless and simple taken to an absolute extreme.

Hilarious to read though so don’t stop just because I said you’re all nuts.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Purple Miku.7032:

Name one person here who claims PvE isn’t easy to win in.

Anyone who thinks this is about whether or not it’s easy or difficult to beat content is completely irrelevant to the discussion, so go elsewhere if you’re not interested.

I think what he’s saying, and also what I was saying, was that you guys need to give it a rest and get some fresh air.

This argument is about the equivalent of the “is this dress blue and gold or black and white” fiasco. = Something pointless and simple taken to an absolute extreme.

Hilarious to read though so don’t stop just because I said you’re all nuts.

So, when someone is entitled to teach bullkitten to other based on biased facts and on the top of that is plain agressive and arrogant, you just let him teach them something that is wrong and spread misinformation ? I don’t know if you ever complained about someone doing something wrong, but if so, you’re an hypocrit.

so this thread are full of elitist scrubs bashing other elitist scrubs? GG well played!

nacario.9417:

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

Nemesis do make fair points though in his last response, which is what his vid is about, dont let your hate get in your way, which is also what his vid is about..

But what his point?

- Necromancer don’t have that much less dps than other profession while using an Icebow? We already know that.

- Necromancer have a 8k dps compare to the Warrior 12k in group settings? We already know that.

- Pre buffs is usually not a good idea overall unless you can’t attack the boss right away? I agree with that point.

- Warrior have a lot less dps in solo situation. The DPS difference between necro and warrior in that situation are marginal.? We know that already.

The thing is Nemesis try to beat the meta with DPS numbers and continue to say that Meta is only about DPS DPS. But still, the Necromancer isn’t push out of the meta because of his dps, but because of his support. If DPS was the only thing important, Mesmer would not be part of the meta.

Actually parts what I understood is that randoms now think the Meta is all about certain classes going zerk, not understanding that they arnt going to achieve meta since they dont go icebow (lol), and that they often overextend by pillar hugging n doing stuff that makes the dungeon runs longer – while also dying due to their squishyness as zerks – and that class x has viable/competable weapon variants beyond what metabattle/wiki claims. Meaning he didnt say it was all about the DPS, which the zerk meta is all about.

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Nemesis.8593:

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Hey Nemesis,

It could be interesting to estimate the indirect dps by group support. Any chance, you could do some dps calculations for class X with and without the support from warrior? As a setup, I propose the same team with war and necro, and compare the kill times on 5+ runs or so? By considering kill time, the variable performances of the four others average out, which should yield better estimates on the indirect dps. Tbh, I think you made your point about direct dps already clear two years ago. I think that quantifying the indirect dps is necessary for an objective comparison. You intentionally made this a war vs necro thing to provoke people, you cheeky person :p Looking forward to your next vid! I’m planning to patreon you btw. There, I said it.

Purple Miku.7032:

Thanks Frifox!

Okay so here was my solo DPS on korga with normal and easily repeatable circumstances, solo setting:

---

https://youtu.be/HknHJVGbvCY

Korga’s hp: 1,497,440
Total time of kill from first to last hit: 3:55:18 (3 minutes, 55 seconds, 18 milliseconds) or 235.18 seconds.

1497440 / 235.18 = 6367.2, or ~6367 DPS in a solo setting on a boss that’s moving for most of the time and I have much less opportunity to attack him constantly.

Beat my time on this boss on a necro then, someone.

In fact, I will pay in gem codes if you can beat my Korga time with a necro. Hell, possibly more. Let’s put that necro DPS to the test!

You really don’t see it do you… hahaha…

God, i shouldn’t say anything because it might spoil the surprise but i can’t help it…
This… was just part I, and it’s original size was 37 minutes… there is going to be a part II soon…

Ohhhhh… the part II…

Thank you my friend for all that you have done… hahahaha…

Im an outsider in all of this, but many in here dont seem to want to understand cuz they arent tolerant and are at a point where theyre roadraging and not thinking clearly. This sort of attitude is what makes spvp toxic. Stop trying to look too much into Nemesis personality but rather the points he make as they are indeed valid if you look at gw2s community as a whole, not just ur premade or guild.

Demandred.7930:

Nemesis.8593:

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Hey Nemesis,

It could be interesting to estimate the indirect dps by group support. Any chance, you could do some dps calculations for class X with and without the support from warrior? As a setup, I propose the same team with war and necro, and compare the kill times on 5+ runs or so? By considering kill time, the variable performances of the four others average out, which should yield better estimates on the indirect dps. Tbh, I think you made your point about direct dps already clear two years ago. I think that quantifying the indirect dps is necessary for an objective comparison. You intentionally made this a war vs necro thing to provoke people, you cheeky person :p Looking forward to your next vid! I’m planning to patreon you btw. There, I said it.

It’s the first time i try to speak in “the language of the internet” and the results unbelievable…

What you are asking is possible yet irrelevant, i can not say more without spoiling part II…
All i can say right now is that you are asking the wrong questions, i will answer the right questions in part II…

It’s true… warrior is used as a buffer + DPS not as pure DPS, but… buffer for who though ?…
There is such a thing as too many buffs (because of the buff cap) otherwise all parties will have… idk… 5 warriors ?… SO… shouldn’t warriors be glad to see the necromancer, the high DPSer ?…

Why aren’t they ?… Because Icebow exploiting does 10x BURST-DPS then any other class… and it just so happens that most of the fights are over in that period, and the BURST-DPS doesn’t have time to fall short…
Now… should the monsters have 10x more HP ?… or should the Icebow be fixed ?… (which is already a confirmed change for HoT btw)

Another delusional idea is that necromancer not only doesn’t bring any buffs to the party, but also has LOWER DPS, then a warrior who also brings support… that’s why necromancers get kicked… LOW DPS + NO SUPPORT

No my friends… i bring the damage + debuffing, you bring the support + damage = balance, as soon as Icebow is gone…

That is all i can say for now without spoiling part II… if you think part I was controversial… ohhhhh just you wait.
Thank you for your support on the matter.

So all you do is to compare direct dps of a zerker necro & a P/S warri, only to then completely disregard the indirect dps of the p/s warro by buffing the group BUT pointing out the indirect dmg your necro does by stacking vulnerability?

Your vid is cringeworthy & you know it. Line-casting is already frowned upon, so we disregard that here.

Does your necro bring banners, you know, the stuff that enables a group to 100% crit in the first place?
Does your necro bring as high might-stacking for the group?

warris are not needed for their high dps in a group, actually there are higher dps builds than p/s out there for warri. We are needed to enable 100% crits & stack might mid-combat, while also buffing Power with 2 unique buffs for the group. On top of that we also stack a decent amount of vulnerability on our own already, usually capping out on 25 with a decent ele in the group.

Necros do not allow stealth-skips, so they won’t replace a thief (which also brings higher personal dps than warri & necro).
Necros do not enable the group to 100% crit all the time, so they wont replace a p/s warri.
Necros can’t reflect projectiles, hence they won’t replace the guardian in the group (which personal dps is way beyond necro)
And ofc Necros wont replace elementalists because even without icebow they have higher personal dps than necro, stack vulnerability just as easily & buff the group way better than necro.

We all know that necro is not the worst when it comes to direct dps, but what you constantly ignore is the fact that it’s also nowhere as impressive & comes with a almost complete lack of group-support. Additionally, the support (vulnerability-stacking) they potentially could bring is ALREADY covered without them.

Until you address the point of group support, I’ll sit back, enjoy my popcorn & lmao about your fake, self-deluded laughter. I mean, at least try to hide that you’re just trolling.

Nemesis.8593:

Demandred.7930:

Nemesis.8593:

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Hey Nemesis,

It could be interesting to estimate the indirect dps by group support. Any chance, you could do some dps calculations for class X with and without the support from warrior? As a setup, I propose the same team with war and necro, and compare the kill times on 5+ runs or so? By considering kill time, the variable performances of the four others average out, which should yield better estimates on the indirect dps. Tbh, I think you made your point about direct dps already clear two years ago. I think that quantifying the indirect dps is necessary for an objective comparison. You intentionally made this a war vs necro thing to provoke people, you cheeky person :p Looking forward to your next vid! I’m planning to patreon you btw. There, I said it.

It’s the first time i try to speak in “the language of the internet” and the results unbelievable…

What you are asking is possible yet irrelevant, i can not say more without spoiling part II…
All i can say right now is that you are asking the wrong questions, i will answer the right questions in part II…

It’s true… warrior is used as a buffer + DPS not as pure DPS, but… buffer for who though ?…
There is such a thing as too many buffs (because of the buff cap) otherwise all parties will have… idk… 5 warriors ?… SO… shouldn’t warriors be glad to see the necromancer, the high DPSer ?…

Why aren’t they ?… Because Icebow exploiting does 10x BURST-DPS then any other class… and it just so happens that most of the fights are over in that period, and the BURST-DPS doesn’t have time to fall short…
Now… should the monsters have 10x more HP ?… or should the Icebow be fixed ?… (which is already a confirmed change for HoT btw)

Another delusional idea is that necromancer not only doesn’t bring any buffs to the party, but also has LOWER DPS, then a warrior who also brings support… that’s why necromancers get kicked… LOW DPS + NO SUPPORT

No my friends… i bring the damage + debuffing, you bring the support + damage = balance, as soon as Icebow is gone…

That is all i can say for now without spoiling part II… if you think part I was controversial… ohhhhh just you wait.
Thank you for your support on the matter.

By your logic, deleting icebow from the game would make necro the natural 2nd choice, judging from personal dps.
And that’s exactly where you are wrong.
Engineer out-dmg necros on sinister builds.
Thiefs out-dmg necros
Elementalists out-dmg necros even without icebow.
Guardians do so as well as DPS warris.

Explain me, why would we run a class that gets out-dmg by so many & brings no unique group-buffs?

edit:
And if there is debuffing needed for a boss, you rather bring a mesmer with nullfield instead of thief, so you still have stealth-skips & gain additional reflects.

edit2:

I really have no idea how the upcoming raid-content will look like, but it’s hard to believe that it will change much for the necros situation, especially since reaper seems to be a pure personal dps-buff, not addressing the issue with the class at all. I guess it becomes interesting if a boss-mechanic ever requires chill-spam.

Batresh.3958:

Purple Miku.7032:

I think most people these days know who this guy is and would rather laugh at his videos or ignore him altogether because it’s just too much cringe to handle.

In the end it’s just another insane efficiency-hater with the most myopic viewpoint imaginable, looking for any and every reason to mock everybody that doesn’t wanna play with less effective setups in PvE. The only difference between him and others is because he makes videos and has thousands of subscribers, he has the power to actually trick people into believing what he says.

It’s sad really.

hahahahahaha… are you serious?? Did you even watch the video and you didn’t even understand the point, watch the video… Now he has proof and you just begin to claim it was a lie even if you havn’t seen it… Do the math yourself, he had 3k more dps than a Brazil’s Warrior and he have played for Warrior for 2 years which was a perfect rotation and premade group and 100% dps uptime. If you should rant on somebody, you should rant on Nike or Brazil for not making a build that can get over 14k dps…

Not even the peope in the necro forum believe what he says.

He can get high dps in a very short fight. Good for him. He does it because the boss gets obliterated with linecasting and he spends most. Of the time in lich form.

His dps is around 8k without linecasting icebows. That’s the sustained, fully buffed, necro dps. And the necro does nothing to boost party dps, as opposed to the warrior.

I am tired of this kitten. We need a place like elitist jerks, that do some real math so this peope stop trolling once and for all.

Nemesis.8593:

It’s the first time i try to speak in “the language of the internet” and the results unbelievable…

What you are asking is possible yet irrelevant, i can not say more without spoiling part II…
All i can say right now is that you are asking the wrong questions, i will answer the right questions in part II…

It’s true… warrior is used as a buffer + DPS not as pure DPS, but… buffer for who though ?…
There is such a thing as too many buffs (because of the buff cap) otherwise all parties will have… idk… 5 warriors ?… SO… shouldn’t warriors be glad to see the necromancer, the high DPSer ?…

Why aren’t they ?… Because Icebow exploiting does 10x BURST-DPS then any other class… and it just so happens that most of the fights are over in that period, and the BURST-DPS doesn’t have time to fall short…
Now… should the monsters have 10x more HP ?… or should the Icebow be fixed ?… (which is already a confirmed change for HoT btw)

Another delusional idea is that necromancer not only doesn’t bring any buffs to the party, but also has LOWER DPS, then a warrior who also brings support… that’s why necromancers get kicked… LOW DPS + NO SUPPORT

No my friends… i bring the damage + debuffing, you bring the support + damage = balance, as soon as Icebow is gone…

That is all i can say for now without spoiling part II… if you think part I was controversial… ohhhhh just you wait.
Thank you for your support on the matter.

Give me some credit, I never said that necro couldn’t bring support :p Debuff and buff is all the same, the team members just have to bring complementary assets, as you point out. But buffs and debuffs are saturated anyway in a good team, it’s just a matter of ‘who does what’ to ensure that you don’t overbuff/overdebuf. Necro brings sustainable max vuln (right?), but so can ele with glyph of storm, and many classes contribute to vuln.

I’m also aware that in most cases, kill times are so short that repeatable dps rotations are irrelevant (for now at least). Ok, so your point is that the short term (de)buffs are only mandatory because they can be timed with massive burst damage, i.e., ice bow. I got that. After the HoT fix (hopefully) , we will get a shift to builds that allow sustainable (de)buffs and dps.

Arantheal.7396:

Nemesis.8593:

Demandred.7930:

Nemesis.8593:

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Hey Nemesis,

It could be interesting to estimate the indirect dps by group support. Any chance, you could do some dps calculations for class X with and without the support from warrior? As a setup, I propose the same team with war and necro, and compare the kill times on 5+ runs or so? By considering kill time, the variable performances of the four others average out, which should yield better estimates on the indirect dps. Tbh, I think you made your point about direct dps already clear two years ago. I think that quantifying the indirect dps is necessary for an objective comparison. You intentionally made this a war vs necro thing to provoke people, you cheeky person :p Looking forward to your next vid! I’m planning to patreon you btw. There, I said it.

It’s the first time i try to speak in “the language of the internet” and the results unbelievable…

What you are asking is possible yet irrelevant, i can not say more without spoiling part II…
All i can say right now is that you are asking the wrong questions, i will answer the right questions in part II…

It’s true… warrior is used as a buffer + DPS not as pure DPS, but… buffer for who though ?…
There is such a thing as too many buffs (because of the buff cap) otherwise all parties will have… idk… 5 warriors ?… SO… shouldn’t warriors be glad to see the necromancer, the high DPSer ?…

Why aren’t they ?… Because Icebow exploiting does 10x BURST-DPS then any other class… and it just so happens that most of the fights are over in that period, and the BURST-DPS doesn’t have time to fall short…
Now… should the monsters have 10x more HP ?… or should the Icebow be fixed ?… (which is already a confirmed change for HoT btw)

Another delusional idea is that necromancer not only doesn’t bring any buffs to the party, but also has LOWER DPS, then a warrior who also brings support… that’s why necromancers get kicked… LOW DPS + NO SUPPORT

No my friends… i bring the damage + debuffing, you bring the support + damage = balance, as soon as Icebow is gone…

That is all i can say for now without spoiling part II… if you think part I was controversial… ohhhhh just you wait.
Thank you for your support on the matter.

By your logic, deleting icebow from the game would make necro the natural 2nd choice, judging from personal dps.
And that’s exactly where you are wrong.
Engineer out-dmg necros on sinister builds.
Thiefs out-dmg necros
Elementalists out-dmg necros even without icebow.
Guardians do so as well as DPS warris.

Explain me, why would we run a class that gets out-dmg by so many & brings no unique group-buffs?

edit:
And if there is debuffing needed for a boss, you rather bring a mesmer with nullfield instead of thief, so you still have stealth-skips & gain additional reflects.

edit2:

I really have no idea how the upcoming raid-content will look like, but it’s hard to believe that it will change much for the necros situation, especially since reaper seems to be a pure personal dps-buff, not addressing the issue with the class at all. I guess it becomes interesting if a boss-mechanic ever requires chill-spam.

Reaper has vuln spam, for one. Too bad they gave vulnspam to basically anything. However, do NOT underestimate the partywide damage increase (+a little extra sustain) of blood magic’s Vampiric Aura. This is a unique partywide “buff” for Necromancers. Necros also bring lots of weakness if needed, and, if raids contain eg. bosses with adds that need to be killed ASAP (maybe because they heal the boss etc.), Epidemic will reduce the time to shred those adds by a significant amount. And if the bosses spam condis, plague signet/unholy martyr + a lot of transfers can help constantly getting rid of them partywide aswell as putting more pressure on the boss. It all depends how they design the content (well, and if Icebow cannot shred those thing before they can even enter those phases…).

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

Nemesis do make fair points though in his last response, which is what his vid is about, dont let your hate get in your way, which is also what his vid is about..

But what his point?

- Necromancer don’t have that much less dps than other profession while using an Icebow? We already know that.

Necromancer have a 8k dps compare to the Warrior 12k in group settings? We already know that

- Pre buffs is usually not a good idea overall unless you can’t attack the boss right away? I agree with that point.

- Warrior have a lot less dps in solo situation. The DPS difference between necro and warrior in that situation are marginal.? We know that already.

The thing is Nemesis try to beat the meta with DPS numbers and continue to say that Meta is only about DPS DPS. But still, the Necromancer isn’t push out of the meta because of his dps, but because of his support. If DPS was the only thing important, Mesmer would not be part of the meta.

You just watched the first 3 minutes right ?…

Hahaha… I have anticipated this “wannabe elitist scrub” reaction… the screen goes black, and you will hear my voice… talking to you…

See… this is exactly what i was saying, people are under the impression not only that necromancer doesn’t bring any buffs to the party but he is also lower in DPS then a wa rrior who does…

psssttt… it’s not 12K, it’s 11.4k for the meta warrior, and it’s not 8K for the necromancer it’s 14.7K in the same circumstances…
Without Icebow my DPS drops to 12K… and if i have a 20% DPS decrease from the lack of an Icebow in the party… so does Brazil, so his DPS would be 9.4K… should i continue ?…

No Icebow = 12K necro, 9K warrior – 40 seconds fights…
1x Icebow = 14.7K necro, 11.4K warrior- 27 second fights…
3x Icebow = no idea, no idea – 13 second fights
I’m starting to see a pattern here… “The first… side effect, people are under the impression they do even more DPS, then they actually do…”

That 8K was one of my worst runs and i put it up on purpose… exactly… for reactions like this: “we already knew that”… i even said “just like everyone expected right ?”…

Hahahaha… I… WAS ALWAYS… RIGHT… of course i was right…

Vampiric aura puts 32 dmg on top of every hit someone does.
So if 100b hits for 40k in total, vampiric aura has contributed 320 dmg to that…
Meteor shower would receive a total dmg-addition of 704…
And all that for traiting into a line that overall greatly damages a necros personal dps output. GG

When it comes to the possibility that a boss-mechanic ever requires weakness-spam, you want to bring a engineer (poison dart) or elementalists with Glyph of Elemental Power. They’ll easily have you covered. The engineer then also automatically comes with group-condi clear/transmute, depending on his traits, so by buffing the party via incomming conditions, they indirectly put additional pressure on bosses as well..

And even condi-spread will be covered without necros, namely by their more powerful bigger brothers: malyx revenants. They will cover that quite decently in the up-coming raid content, given that condi-spreads ever become important.

I guess you can see the pattern:
Necro does nothing unique or special & the only direct buff he has (vampiric aura) is not only extremely under-performing, but further decreases the necros personal dps, ending up in actually reducing the parties overall dps more than buffing it.

I said it before & I say it again: Play whatever you want, this game is about fun.
But OP & his fellowship use shallow manipulation to sell a class as something it simply isn’t. Necros have no place in speedruns & most meta-zerglings don’t bother with them because they artifically increase the time it takes to grind gold via dungeons.

There are enough open LFG’s so all classes can complete their daily set of dungeons without any problems. The problems really only starts to arise if someone identifies too much with his class & can’t deal with the fact that it’s objectively under-performing, therefore jumps up & down in his flat & attempts to kitten of everyone who thinks unlike him via trolling.

I f.e. love my main, which is engineer, but while I honor any decent engineer out there for the awesome results our class can put out, it’s still not enough to make it into the meta. And we already have the currently single most powerful sustained dps build available. But instead of running around & scream at anybody who’d tell me engi is still sub-par, I rather contribute in the class’ subforum to ideas & concepts for improving the points it needs improvements on.

OP is not aware of the state of necromancer, hence he rightfully gets laughed at from the necros out there & effectively contributes zero to improving the class so it actually receives valuable improvements.

From my side, everything is said.

Nemesis.8593:

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

at least read the posts above, before posting…
your personal dps doesn’t really matter, when comparing your pure dps build to a supporter/dps build…

Wait wait wait. So all this pointless threads and unreadable posts exist because necro can outdps support warrior who is in the party because of his buffs in the first place? Someone enlighten me.

Arantheal.7396:

Nemesis.8593:

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

your personal dps doesn’t really matter

Uuuu… trolling… i’m new to the game but i’m learning fast…

Personal DPS doesn’t matter… so… summon icebows… don’t use them…
Take 5 guardians, stand near the Mossman and buff yourselves with Empower until it dies

… and here i was thinking that the warrior buffs were there to buff high DPSers like me, to increase our personal DPS and therefor the team’s overall DPS, i was doing it wrong all this time… We need to buff-bribe bosses in this game, maybe if we buff them hard enough… they will just surrender the loot and no one has to get hurt…

Nemesis.8593:

Arantheal.7396:

Nemesis.8593:

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

your personal dps doesn’t really matter

… and here i was thinking that the warrior buffs were there to buff high DPSers like me, to increase our personal DPS and therefor the team’s overall DPS, i was doing it wrong all this time… We need to buff-bribe bosses in this game, maybe if we buff them hard enough… they will just surrender the loot and no one has to get hurt…

That would probably work in a 10 man raiding party but who are you going to replace in a 5 man dungeon/fractal party? Just a reminder that even without icebows eles have a lot of utility and damage.

Cite me correctly, cause this kind of responses let you appear to learn a lot slower than you might think.
So, I gonna repeat to you – slowly – why your point is mute:

You compare the direct dps of 2 builds, one being a genereric zerk necro you came up with & the other being the warri meta p/s build.
But while 1 of these builds is fabricated to achieve the highest personal dps possible, while making little to none scrifices to utility, the 2nd build makes big sacrifices to personal dps in order to come with a maximum of group buffes.
You then – correctly – find out that your necro does higher dps than the meta warri build.

But then – and read carefully now – you jump to a false conclusion.
This false conclusion is that only the personal dps justifies a class being in the meta or not. You fail to realize that it is these huge sacrifices in personal dps, towards maximized group buff-capability make p/s warri a meta-build. He increases the overalls parties dps so heavily that he outshines the personal dps of your build by miles.

As soon as you grow familiar enough with the combat mechancs of gw2 to understand this, we can close this thread.

Until that I enjoy my popcorn & happily point out every single flaw in every single of your “rebutals” to the meta.
The reality is that you are not even remotely as smart as you try to appear in your videos. You are just delusioned & arrogant if you think you understand the game better than every single one of us combined, and your hurt feelings are what thrives you to these troll-threads, both today & a year ago…
Enjoy your day

What’s the plugin/program/hax called for that timer in the videos? The one people are using for records/timing/cooking (god knows what).

Nemesis.8593:

…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Is there a Korga solo in part 2?

Please let this topic die.