Guild Wars 2

Recently I’ve seen a lot of posts about Warriors and being able to grant Protection to ourselves via our own means such as skills and traits within the profession itself. While I can see why Protection would be helpful, being able to apply it on our own would be ridiculous. We have a dodge bar for a reason! Dodging is probably the most important and effective tool that a Warrior (Or any profession really) has to negate damage. Don’t take the damage in the first place. I really don’t want the Warrior to turn into something where all I do is soak up the damage and sit in the front of 5 enemies pressing 1-5 until the fights over and I don’t understand why anyone would want that. That is not what makes the profession so magical.

When you combine -33% damage with all of the other ways we have to negate and control damage Defy Pain, Shield Stance, Stuns, Knockdowns/Knock backs, Weakness, Cripples the combat would not feel dynamic anymore. Skill would not decide whether a fight is survived anymore so much as a single boon. You cannot be lazy. Granting access to a hard Protection within the profession would not only allow but encourage laziness. Positioning wouldn’t matter as much. Leave Protection to professions that deserve it.

That’s the dumbest logic ever.

Should we remove the ability to dodge on every other class that can grant themselves Protection then?

Oglaf.1074:

That’s the dumbest logic ever.

Should we remove the ability to dodge on every other class that can grant themselves Protection then?

Agreed…that is possibly the dumbest logic I’ve heard on any mmo forums yet…and that’s saying a lot.

Think about what I said though. Those professions that grant it (Guardian for example) are ment to play a supportive role. They deserve it because they are designed around that specific goal in mind.

The Warrior is designed around dealing damage and controlling it. You can be very supportive as a warrior, but not in the same way a Guardian can support allies. Not less effective support than a Guardian, just a different way of support than a Guardian.

Zagerus.8675:

Think about what I said though. Those professions that grant it (Guardian for example) are ment to play a supportive role. They deserve it because they are designed around that specific goal in mind.

Guardians can also, y’know, dodge? Just as well as a Warrior. Your entire argument is based on that reasoning and as such it is entirely flawed.

Warriors need Protection just as much as Guardians, if not more due to not being as tanky otherwise. Warriors at the moment are just beefy DPS; if we try to tank we are just a very, very mediocre tank.

It’s for that reason that you have synergy between classes and Guardians maintain their place as an incredibly good asset to any team. You can already play a pretty tanky Warrior by running all Knights armor/Jewelery. Guardians do not nearly have the health pool to sustain hit after hit without the Boons/condition removal they have. Protection fills in the gap. Providing us our own internal way to grant protection would pervert that synergy, as it would giving any other profession a way to give themselves Protection on a regular basis.

Zagerus.8675:

. You can already play a pretty tanky Warrior by running all Knights armor/Jewelery

Yeah as I said, beefy DPS. You’re not a tank in that setup.

Zagerus.8675:

Guardians do not nearly have the health pool to sustain hit after hit without the Boons/condition removal they have.

Guardians have so much Health regeneration that much more Health would just be a handicap for them (take longer to Heal up). Furthermore, a Warriors high Health is “false tankyness” because without any sort of damage mitigation (like Protection!) it is gone in a flash. In any actual gameplay scenario a Guardian will take a lot less damage than a Warrior.

Your arguments don’t hold water: there is no reason why Warriors can’t have an easier access (as in any access!) to Protection.

You cannot forget the whole philosophy the combat system is designed around. While I may not be logical, the synergy and the importance of Support, Control, and dealing Damage being spread and handed out to each player IS logical. It makes more sense and it doesn’t get stale. Dependencies are important, but if you have a Trinity like system, everyone is forced into a certain role regardless of if they want to play that way. You are not dependent on Protection only, A Necromancer could dishing out Blinds left and right to negate damage instead. But one profession can not do everything. that is why I say giving us our own selfish access to Protection wouldn’t fit. A trait that granted Protection but -33% damage dealt while under the effects of it would seem like a fair compromise for granting us hard access to the boon, but how many people would slot that trait then.

Zagerus.8675:

A trait that granted Protection but -33% damage dealt while under the effects of it would seem like a fair compromise for granting us hard access to the boon, but how many people would slot that trait then.

No, it does not seem fair at all.

Seriously, do you even play this class or are your attempts at dissuading Anet from considering granting Warriors Protection fueled by spite or something?

This is the only class I play. I’ve played in teams enough to see how important it is that those boons stay sacred to their original professions and I highly doubt my words would have any sway on Anets design decisions, for all I know we could get a new weapon in an expansion that grants Protection. I’m just saying things the way I perceive them and I personally don’t see any need for giving us access to it right now. It would be too powerful in my opinion. Combine protection with weakness, that’s effectively -83% damage with 1 skill and a boon and that’s before any other modifiers are taken into account. In team settings like Dungeons that’s important, In solo that should not be given access too.

Again, Guardians don’t seem to have to deal with any sort of “punishment” or “penalty” for their access to Protection.

Just give it a rest already.

Oh and Weakness? Yeah that’d actually make a cool feature: you could time your Hammer 2 and Protection for a short “burst of tankyness”. Just what the Warrior needs.

As you wish but you were the one coming to my thread assuming my logic is flawed and assuming that giving warriors access to Protection on their own isn’t. I’ve explain to the best of my knowledge why I believe Guardians have access to it I can’t say anymore. It appears you are firm in your believes that we should have it and that’s not something I’m going to spend time trying to change. I will however discuss philosophy on how to Protect in other ways. Honestly if you want a taste of that boon run 6 Superior Lyssa Runes and 30 Tactics, without consumables thats 6.5 seconds of protection + every other boon imaginable. Assuming you run Signet Mastery that would mean you gain 6.5 seconds of protection every 50* seconds.

Zagerus.8675:

Leave Protection to professions that deserve it.

Simply… Priceless. LMAO

You try to make your ways to “negate and control damage” seem so practical. Sadly, you clearly do no play Warrior outside of a PvE environment.

I also love the comparison of Defy Pain to Protection.

You do realize that it has a 90 seconds long cooldown? You do also realize that with a Hammer, a Guardian can pretty much keep Protection up constantly?

Truthfully I do not know down to an exact number of how long a hammer on Guardian can keep protection up. Yes I do realize there is a 90 second cool down, if it had a 30 second cool down the difference between using it skillfully at the right time and just spamming it on recharge would never be noticed.

Alright so outside of a PvE Environment how strong is Protection? It would be even more of a disaster in PvP! Imagine trying to fight a Warrior that has access to -33% of your damage along with everything else they have. Then imagine trying to fight a Warrior along with one of his teammates. Certainly that wouldn’t make sense to have access to that much damage and that much damage mitigation all in one profession.

I agree with the poster. Warriors don’t need protection because the way they mitigate damage is by removing the damage source (Burst killing or CC).

I have a 80 Guardian. The ways that you keep Protection up require investment and require the Guardian to keep positioning and party synergy in mind.

I am not against Warriors having protection as long as it were to come into play the same way as guardians do, not just click button take 33% less damage. With that being said each class needs to have its niche. Warriors do alot of things great, they don’t need to do everything great.

Saying that you can’t play a true tank with out protection is silly. Warriors can be great party support with banners and shouts. They can be have the highest DPS in a group. They can even be a beefy CC line of defense. Compare that to how many options you have running a thief -_- Condition or Crit

Warriors are well balanced class even if the damage in PVE is higher then I think it should be. I can’t really see a NEED to add protection to anything they do

idk bout you nubs, but my warrior doesnt need protection. Its super nice when i get it from a guard it makes me all the more tank. I’ve noticed that you cannot tank by yourself, no matter guard or warrior.

Why we CAN’T have a protection boon to grant ourselves, is because you nubs don’t know about a Warriors regen.

Trait atleast 15 into toughness, you get regen based on adrenaline+healing signet. at full adrenaline i get 350+ a tick, plus the 200+ from the signet, thats close to 600hp a tick. That’s more health over 25-30 secs than any other heal spell can put out.

Throw in shouts heal and have fun never dying. My warrior has 800 or so deaths. Thats including sPvP, fall damage, PvE, WvW. I have over 10,000 kills in WvW. I used to rock it out on Kaineng before that monster guild transferred, so numbers were not on our side.

Now, if you really wanna have fun, Make a guard friend use a hammer and you two can defeat hordes of enemies haha because of protection.

But this whole crying about warriors being weak. stfu. go roll a guard if you don’t like being a warrior. A good Warrior will hardly die, I’ve been focused by 20+ and walked, not run, walked from a side citadel entrance to a tower. relying solely on regen and shouts haha.

So final word is, if you say warriors suck, you suck at playing a warrior. haha.

better off rerolling anyways, i’m tired of seeing everyone cry at how they suck at one of the strongest classes in the game.

Remix.2086:

Trait atleast 15 into toughness, you get regen based on adrenaline+healing signet. at full adrenaline i get 350+ a tick, plus the 200+ from the signet, thats close to 600hp a tick. That’s more health over 25-30 secs than any other heal spell can put out

Throw in shouts heal and have fun never dying.
So final word is, if you say warriors suck, you suck at playing a warrior. haha.

better off rerolling anyways, i’m tired of seeing everyone cry at how they suck at one of the strongest classes in the game.

Don’t worry though, my crying comes from laughing too hard. That’s why I barely post anymore. I have fun laughing at the true nubs like you with your denial.

Also, Adrenal Health heals for 360hp(full adrenaline) and is THREE TIMES slower than any other regen. Also funny how you would couple that with healing signet and NOT use healing banners. You know the ONLY way to make healing signet even matter(for passive healing).

" …one of the strongest classes in the game." lmao, yea right.

Do you even lift?

A Ranger #6 will laugh at your pitiful attempts to heal. Lets just ignore the other classes as I doubt your denial will accept the truth anyway.

Zagerus.8675:

Combine protection with weakness, that’s effectively -83% damage with 1 skill and a boon

I don’t believe that’s how the math would work, as one is on the outgoing damage and one is on the incoming damage. A fine distinction but a distinction nonetheless. The math should not be additive.

For example, say the basic damage calculated coming from an enemy is 1000pts (and it’s not a ciritcal hit), the damage output with weakness applied would be 500. Then, if a player has Protection, that damage would be reduced by 33%. So, 500 * 33% is ~166. So, total reduction is about 666 which is a 66% reduction in damage, not 83%. Still a huge reduction in damage though.

phantomFury.9168:

Zagerus.8675:

Combine protection with weakness, that’s effectively -83% damage with 1 skill and a boon

I don’t believe that’s how the math would work, as one is on the outgoing damage and one is on the incoming damage. A fine distinction but a distinction nonetheless. The math should not be additive.

For example, say the basic damage calculated coming from an enemy is 1000pts (and it’s not a ciritcal hit), the damage output with weakness applied would be 500. Then, if a player has Protection, that damage would be reduced by 33%. So, 500 * 33% is ~166. So, total reduction is about 666 which is a 66% reduction in damage, not 83%. Still a huge reduction in damage though.

This makes sense! Thanks.

My last post here, but wanted to say weakness is NOT a reliable source of damage mitigation. Your typical opponent will be dealing burst damage. Which of course relies on critical damage or condition stacking. Which completely makes weakness useless. It’ll do good against bunkers, but their damage output doesn’t matter and they should have good condition removal anyway. When balanced specs matter more, then weakness will be more practical.

Warrior sounds great on paper. However, all these “options” are far from practical. Even a Sword/Sword warrior looks beast when written down. Questionable tree design, long cooldowns, and etc penalizes the class far too much.

If this game focused on the team, then Warriors current state would be understandable to a degree. However, the game is clearly focused on individual performance. Whether it was intentional or not is not the point. That’s how the current state of the game is. A warriors reliance on another to be effective makes it an undesirable. Which is why more and more passionate warriors re-rolled or have quit the game entirely.

man.. you don’t know anything about warrior ):

Dico.4815:

man.. you don’t know anything about warrior ):

Its not just that he doesn’t know anything about warriors…its that he doesn’t know anything about this game in general. This game was designed around the absence of the mmo holy trinity. It was designed so that you are not dependent on other classes to be there to keep you alive. No tanks. No healers. No pure DPS. He even went as far as to mention that the trinity is not supposed to be in this game, but then he starts talking about synergy and how guardians synergize with us by providing the necessary survival boons to keep us alive. He’s contradicting himself. It blew my mind in his original post when he used the ability to dodge as a justification for not having any form of survival boon….which is THE game mechanic for mitigating damage. That was just kitten #8230;every class has dodge and clearly ANET acknowledges that something other than dodging is required to survive…other wise these other classes would not be loaded up with survival boons. What makes that worse is that the majority of these other classes are ranged…which means that they don’t have to be in melee range at all to be at maximum effectiveness.

He even tried to say that we should suffer a damage penalty for having what all other classes get without a penalty?!? Warriors are not the highest dps class and we’re not the highest survivability class…where’s the justification for a penalty?

The whole high hp thing is a joke. That is effectively negated by having to wade face deep into melee range to be effective, where all the red circles and melee counter hits await. I don’t know about you other warriors, but my endurance bar has a maximum of two dodges at a time…so not quite sure how the OP’s infinite dodging idea is supposed to work out. I do have the restore endurance on burst and that does help some, but really….dodging as an excuse to not have any survival boon?

Remix.2086:

A good Warrior will hardly die, I’ve been focused by 20+ and walked, not run, walked from a side citadel entrance to a tower. relying solely on regen and shouts haha.

Clearly we all need to be running this man’s build. If he can casually stroll through a mob of opponents without breaking a sweat.

Please post something more constructive, if you are assuming people in these forums don’t know how our traits work (adrenal health, healing shouts) then you are not giving us much credit. Also I’m pretty sure Mending is one of the best healing abilities in the game for pvp. 5k+ and curing 2 conditions (more if traited) and on 25 sec cooldown.

Think someone got mad because he wasn’t able to kill a warr and saw that he got protection on him and now think’s that’s the reason that he wasn’t able to kill him.Btw,look at the cd of protecton,and look how many times it will or will not pop…

Btw,this statement.." Leave Protection to professions that deserve it."

I can say the same about Gs should only be used for warriors,and rangers shouldn’t be able to use axes.Also,remove longbows and rifles from warriors,im unable to kite them !..something like that.

wow I thought that “I love this class please don’t touch it” post was the pinnacle of stupidity on this sub forum. Boy was I sure wrong congratulations OP and the 2 yes men take a bow.

If you ask me, #1 problem is kiteability factor of warriors…. its obnoxious…. melee warriors of course. Cripple, immobilize, chill. Its the fact that its so easy to kite melee warriors, then give warriors more tanking ability to make time for them to have a chance to catch ranged classes without getting stopped before even making it there to swing a sword even once. If the OP can explain to me how warriors can be so effective in melee combat without getting kited/stopped in place all the time and surviving the distance to the enemy without dying midway because of all the ways to make a warrior limp to his enemy. The only current solution is to make a way for warriors to be tankier via protection to survive getting into range, and staying in front a zerg of people and not dying in a blink of an eye. If there is another, I would like to hear it.

Of course we can also ignore the devs admitting that warriors get completely stomped by cripple or any slow of course.

Guys, you are arguing with someone who doesn’t know what is the situation with sPvP like, when talking about warriors. So…

I spend most of my time WvW in a tanky spec. I have around 2.2k toughness (2.1k without my shield) 2.2k power and just under 27k health (without robust buff).
Along with that I have adrenal health, healing signet and use mango pies.

I use warhorn offhand (traited) with sword and condition removal /transfer sigils on both weapons. Mace + shield as main weapons, weakness on mace 1, missile deflection on shield stance + mace 2, daze, bulls charge + stomp combo along with stability from battle standard.

Warrior’s don’t need protection (it’d be lovely, but we really don’t need it).

This thread should be stickied to show the general stupidity of the average guildwars 2 player and the terrible players that often frequent the warrior forums to argue against the best interests of the class with invalid posts.

What kind of crack is OP smoking, hook me up

|: No class deserves protection more than the warrior. We have one of the worst active defense of any class, and that is what counts when it comes to defense, not base armour/health. Please think about how Endure Pain and….. Shield Stance…. (There isn’t much else) compare with Thief’s 60-70% stealth uptime, Guardian’s 100% protection uptime/shields/bubbles/walls, Elementalist protection/mistform/arcane shield/ALL of their heals etc etc

Vex.7486:

I spend most of my time WvW in a tanky spec. I have around 2.2k toughness (2.1k without my shield) 2.2k power and just under 27k health (without robust buff).
Along with that I have adrenal health, healing signet and use mango pies.

I use warhorn offhand (traited) with sword and condition removal /transfer sigils on both weapons. Mace + shield as main weapons, weakness on mace 1, missile deflection on shield stance + mace 2, daze, bulls charge + stomp combo along with stability from battle standard.

Warrior’s don’t need protection (it’d be lovely, but we really don’t need it).

You have described perfectly how useless your build is for any purpose besides standing on a spot and not dying. For all other warriors that are intending to fufill a useful purpose…that means actually being able to kill something….then no…we don’t have all those things…hardly any of them. So yes…warriors do need protection…just not the useless, paper weight, warriors. The rest of us enjoy playing the active, mobile, damage dealing warrior. I would suggest they put protection in a place that bunker build warriors cannot access it in the trait lines.

The whole reason I made this post was to state why I think Warriors do not deserve access to Protection on their own. I resonate with the points others made about why we do not need it. I did not contradict myself when I talked about trinities and then synergy between professions they are not the same thing. In a trinity system professions are required in team composition to do specific things. When there is synergy like the system we play in with Guild Wars 2, you have very different ways of doing things like supporting the group. Necros do not give Protection like a Guardian can, but they have access to a lot of blinding if they wish to be supportive. They have very different ways of doing a common goal.

I also pointed out that positioning matters just as much as dodging. A dodge roll won’t save you if you are standing in AoE the entire time. If you are doing that Protection probably won’t save you anyway even if it lasted the entire match. I have not seen any reason as to how giving us hard access to this boon would be considered balanced. It’s like saying give Warriors a hard skill that increases damage by 33%, obviously that will get trashed and called imbalanced, but it is the same concept. Why is it not pondered about how seriously this would affect balance?

This probably should have been the first post instead of what I posted earlier. It was not my intention to come off as abrasive toward people suggesting this idea.

Zagerus.8675:

The whole reason I made this post was to state why I think Warriors do not deserve access to Protection on their own. I resonate with the points others made about why we do not need it. I did not contradict myself when I talked about trinities and then synergy between professions they are not the same thing. In a trinity system professions are required in team composition to do specific things. When there is synergy like the system we play in with Guild Wars 2, you have very different ways of doing things like supporting the group. Necros do not give Protection like a Guardian can, but they have access to a lot of blinding if they wish to be supportive. They have very different ways of doing a common goal.

I also pointed out that positioning matters just as much as dodging. A dodge roll won’t save you if you are standing in AoE the entire time. If you are doing that Protection probably won’t save you anyway even if it lasted the entire match. I have not seen any reason as to how giving us hard access to this boon would be considered balanced. It’s like saying give Warriors a hard skill that increases damage by 33%, obviously that will get trashed and called imbalanced, but it is the same concept. Why is it not pondered about how seriously this would affect balance?

This probably should have been the first post instead of what I posted earlier. It was not my intention to come off as abrasive toward people suggesting this idea.

I think you are extremely misguided. You seem to be under the impression that warrior+protection is overpowered because warrior innately has the highest armour and HP, when it’s very clear to anyone who pvps or does high end content that high armour+HP does not nearly measure up to a straight 33% damage reduction or any of the other forms of active defense.
You also seem to be under the impression that classes like guardians and elementalists receive protection because they innately do not have the same armour or HP and receive access to the boon to “make up for it”. If that were the case, then they wouldn’t be /sharing/ this boon across the whole party. Nor would they also receive any of the other multitude of defensive abilities.

Jzaku.9765:

Zagerus.8675:

The whole reason I made this post was to state why I think Warriors do not deserve access to Protection on their own. I resonate with the points others made about why we do not need it. I did not contradict myself when I talked about trinities and then synergy between professions they are not the same thing. In a trinity system professions are required in team composition to do specific things. When there is synergy like the system we play in with Guild Wars 2, you have very different ways of doing things like supporting the group. Necros do not give Protection like a Guardian can, but they have access to a lot of blinding if they wish to be supportive. They have very different ways of doing a common goal.

I also pointed out that positioning matters just as much as dodging. A dodge roll won’t save you if you are standing in AoE the entire time. If you are doing that Protection probably won’t save you anyway even if it lasted the entire match. I have not seen any reason as to how giving us hard access to this boon would be considered balanced. It’s like saying give Warriors a hard skill that increases damage by 33%, obviously that will get trashed and called imbalanced, but it is the same concept. Why is it not pondered about how seriously this would affect balance?

This probably should have been the first post instead of what I posted earlier. It was not my intention to come off as abrasive toward people suggesting this idea.

I think you are extremely misguided. You seem to be under the impression that warrior+protection is overpowered because warrior innately has the highest armour and HP, when it’s very clear to anyone who pvps or does high end content that high armour+HP does not nearly measure up to a straight 33% damage reduction or any of the other forms of active defense.
You also seem to be under the impression that classes like guardians and elementalists receive protection because they innately do not have the same armour or HP and receive access to the boon to “make up for it”. If that were the case, then they wouldn’t be /sharing/ this boon across the whole party. Nor would they also receive any of the other multitude of defensive abilities.

I think it would be imbalanced because it does not fit into the profession.

Zagerus.8675:

I think it would be imbalanced because it does not fit into the profession.

I think it fits the profession perfectly, especially if it was seamed into the Defense trait line as a Grandmaster trait. Take Spiked Armor, swap it with Sure Footed’s place, reshape Sure Footed to “Stances grant Protection (3sec, except Frenzy which grants 3sec of protection after a 4sec delay).”

Badda bing badda boom, now we can make a ‘Stance build’ just like we can make a ‘Shouts/Banner build’. But also, ask yourself, how much sense does it make that a Banner helps you heal from deadly gashes and fireballs to the face, of someone shouting at you doing doing the same? This idea actually makes sense.

If you wanted both shouts and banner build, you’d end up with a ‘bunker’ build, having either regen banners or healing shouts + protection with stances (of course, you can’t have all of that…you only have 3 utility slots and an elite banner). And just like a bunker, your damage will suffer without traits like +% damage with axe, might on crits with GS, etc. The best you could do is 10% dmg on burning targets with longbow, 25% dmg on CC’ed foes with a hammer or 15% to weakened foes with a mace (5% for all other weapons). None of those weapons are the bees knees for DPS anyway, so it works out. The bunker would have regen or heals (can’t be both) + protection and likely Mending and 10 in Strength so they can purge conditions (2 with Mending + cripple/chill/weakness/immobilize + traited warhorn, most likely using +protection duration runes instead of soldiers). All in all, it wouldn’t have the healing and boons of other bunkers but having an (IMO) better advantage in mobility (if they used a sword somewhere).

And logically, it’s just not good to dive into crazy stuff like that without the option of having protection rather than expecting your buddies to bring it for you…I’m sure the lady warriors out there would say it’s the only smart choice ;P

Zagerus.8675:

I think it would be imbalanced because it does not fit into the profession.

Says who?!? You….who has demonstrated minimal knowledge about the way warriors actually work? By what logic does a melee class not need damage reduction? You can pop off another list of either traits or weapon specific abilities that prevent some damage for x amount of seconds…but you can do that for every class in the game. What you are saying makes no sense.

You come into the forums as if you have some balance numbers and statistics to support your OPINION of what a profession does or does not deserve. You come in here talking about imbalance and you have nothing to support that besides your OPINION. Here are some facts:
1. Melee professions take more damage on average due to having to be in …wait for it…melee range! …in order to be most effective.
2. Armor and HP do not scale well at all with high level content in pvp or pve.
3. Boons do scale well with high level content in pvp and pve.
4. Every other profession in the game has access to some boon that mitigates or prevents some damage
5. This game was designed around the premise that each player is responsible for their own survival….depending on another profession to provide you that survival is the opposite of that premise.

The logic of number 5 directly leads to the noticeable difference of grouping with a guardian that is providing both aegis and protection regularly…or any other group member that provides either aegis or protection regularly…vs grouping with no shared defensive boons in higher level content.

I don’t know if you got face rolled by some warrior running around with a noob stick or your dps is so low and found it frustrating to deal with a bunker warrior, but you need to play some higher level content before posting stuff like this.

Having reliable source of protection as a Warrior IS NOT broken. If you think protection with Warrior is broken then, name me one Warrior who can actually “tank” without protection. People want to tank with a Warrior too, not just a Guard.

You can’t simply “balance” a class around one person, just putting it out there.

[quote=You have described perfectly how useless your build is for any purpose besides standing on a spot and not dying. For all other warriors that are intending to fufill a useful purpose…that means actually being able to kill something….then no…we don’t have all those things…hardly any of them. So yes…warriors do need protection…just not the useless, paper weight, warriors. The rest of us enjoy playing the active, mobile, damage dealing warrior. I would suggest they put protection in a place that bunker build warriors cannot access it in the trait lines.[/quote]

Oh yes having a defensive trait in a damage tree would make perfect sense!

And my build isn’t useless, it’s used to set up kills via stuns, dazes and knockdowns for other guildies who DO focus on mowing down other players. My toughness is equal to my power so i still throw out decent damage when im in range, otherwise im reflecting damage or granting mobility to my group.
I love this style of play, so don’t bash other players because they aren’t full zerker GS swinging kittens who die constantly because of poor gear choice, then come complaining about not having protection when you have perfectly good options in-game already to increase survivability.

I have absolutely no trouble with high level content at all. I don’t know where this thing about high level content being so hard and it being SO unsurvivable that they absolutely MUST have a boon to stay alive is coming from. Actually, I’m a little bummed when I head there because it is so easy to stay alive. This is suppose to be a level 80 zone and I can sustain a fight with 5 undead and never go below half health. I’m not bragging. This is the truth for anyone who is geared and plays skillfully and in a smart way and they know it. It is not an opinion.

If there is one thing that I cannot grasp, it is how this single boon is going to magically fix bad playing. So far you haven’t said anything that changes my mind about this.

Vex.7486:

Oh yes having a defensive trait in a damage tree would make perfect sense!

And my build isn’t useless, it’s used to set up kills via stuns, dazes and knockdowns for other guildies who DO focus on mowing down other players. My toughness is equal to my power so i still throw out decent damage when im in range, otherwise im reflecting damage or granting mobility to my group.
I love this style of play, so don’t bash other players because they aren’t full zerker GS swinging kittens who die constantly because of poor gear choice, then come complaining about not having protection when you have perfectly good options in-game already to increase survivability.

Yes..having a defensive effect associated with a damage trait would make perfect sense as the design goal is apparently to have each profession be self sufficient…vs having to rely on others. That’s the whole point in moving away from the tank/healer/dps set up. What you just described “it’s used to set up kills via stuns, dazes and knockdowns for other guildies who DO focus on mowing down other players”..is exactly what I am referring to by being useless. Sitting there waiting on someone else to do it for you. I guess I am being too harsh on that front though. That is a valid style of play in a pvp environment and in a solo pve environment.

What I focus on at the moment is high end pve. No I do not die constantly, and no my gear choice is not poor. In fact, I live longer than most group members…simply because I often ignore the fact that my character is most effective in melee range and I move to the fringes of combat and use my rifle when melee combat is unfavorable or my health is low.

Yes we have options for survivability, but only at the expense of all decent dps…unlike other professions. That is where I have a problem with this profession design. Whether you want to lick boot and pretend everything is fine and there is no valid room for improvement is up to you. The arguments presented here so far have been completely ridiculous as far as why this one profession should have no defense boon…when anyone with common sense can see that boons are superior in every way to armor/hp. Superior to the degree that armor/hp may as well not exist once you reach a certain level of content. To cut you off right here…no running around fighting open world mobs is not high end pve content..no matter which zone you are in.

To answer your assumption of running around with a noob stick…I don’t even use GS since I hate being like everyone else. I move between axe/axe, axe/shield, rifle. My gear is all dungeon exotic quality except for a few accessories at this point..some of which are ascended already.

The issue we are talking about is a design philosophy issue. The only build with decent survivability for a warrior should not be a no dps support build. 90+ second cool downs are no good for a melee profession. No one’s asking for an unkillable profession. No one’s asking for multiple defensive boons. The entire argument that the OP is disputing is about having one defensive boon for this profession. The whole glass cannon issue with this profession is purely the result of weak early defensive traits and lack of decent survivability options outside of deep defense/tactics trait lines. Decent would be defined as relatively low cool down options that do not require a specific weapon to be equipped. I wouldn’t even mind the options being tied to having a shield to swap to…if we did not also need to have a ranged weapon to swap to. I’m just saying…this profession could use another look as far as fine tuning. The issues aren’t game breaking, but they certainly aren’t non existent as you guys are describing them either. Its getting pretty annoying having bunker builds say that there is no issue…just because you are satisfied doing crap dps. Just like you say you are happy with a no dps build…some of us are enjoying a high dps build.

Zagerus.8675:

I have absolutely no trouble with high level content at all. I don’t know where this thing about high level content being so hard and it being SO unsurvivable that they absolutely MUST have a boon to stay alive is coming from. Actually, I’m a little bummed when I head there because it is so easy to stay alive. This is suppose to be a level 80 zone and I can sustain a fight with 5 undead and never go below half health. I’m not bragging. This is the truth for anyone who is geared and plays skillfully and in a smart way and they know it. It is not an opinion.

If there is one thing that I cannot grasp, it is how this single boon is going to magically fix bad playing. So far you haven’t said anything that changes my mind about this.

You just summed up what people have been saying about not having experienced high level content. Running around in an open world level 80 zone is not high level content. You can do that in greens as a fresh 80. Try some harder dungeons or higher level fractals. I’d love to see them smash your face as you try that face roll stuff you are doing in level 80 zones now.

If anything this thread brings a tear to my eyes because it shows that on at least this issue, the Warrior community comes together and agrees!

Actually I run dungeons all the time and I’m at level 31 fractals at the moment. I’ve stopped because the exploiting is a major put off to me. I bet you also assume I run serker gear which I don’t. I get face rolled if I don’t dodge properly only, not because I don’t have Protection.

Zagerus.8675:

I have absolutely no trouble with high level content at all. I don’t know where this thing about high level content being so hard and it being SO unsurvivable that they absolutely MUST have a boon to stay alive is coming from. Actually, I’m a little bummed when I head there because it is so easy to stay alive. This is suppose to be a level 80 zone and I can sustain a fight with 5 undead and never go below half health. I’m not bragging. This is the truth for anyone who is geared and plays skillfully and in a smart way and they know it. It is not an opinion.

If there is one thing that I cannot grasp, it is how this single boon is going to magically fix bad playing. So far you haven’t said anything that changes my mind about this.

>Considering Orr as endgame pve content

This basically explains everything

Besides you also need to look at this from a pvp perspective.

Class designs were supposed to be balanced via tPvP wise, and warriors are practically non existent in paid tourneys. Not to mention even the Devs scoff at warriors and how no one wants one in their Team. They even mentioned some of the problems with the warrior, (cripple/kiteable skills) make warriors meat sticks in the middle of someones Aoe. You can always ignore opinions, but i think if even devs admit they need to give warriors something else to be more viable in tPvP than i think i stand sided with those wanting some way to get protection. It makes it so warriors can bunker or not get blown into pieces before getting kited around in any environment (WvW/PvP). PvE content is a whole other story, I just dont like how i can’t be a tank like a guardian and sit around 5+ mobs in fractals/dungeons and literally stay above 75% hp all the time. Heck id trade 75% of my dps just to sit around and do that.

Please try to play a warrior in tPvP before you guess why so many offers for protection boon be made to warriors. Unless you got another idea as to how to make warriors viable for competitive play, or should warriors just stay as PvE content?

I was considering Orr because it was in the context of what was being pointed out. If we are talking about Higher level Fractals Of COURSE it is going to be challenging to stay alive there. It does not get harder for no reason? Warriors are not magic wielders Protection doesn’t fit their archetype or role. They are a very physical profession, these are the designers own words. Should we give Thieves Protection too? Maybe that is what the designers want. Maybe they wish for Warriors to have running mates to reach full potential if you run DPS. Seriously a Skilled DPS Warrior with another teammate by their side would be a major reason I wouldn’t go near a cap point if I’m solo. I’ve never seen a designer say Hey, in sPvP and tPvP guys we would like every profession to be able to dismantle the battlefield on their own. It is a team gameplay type after all.. And about not running a Greatsword because everyone else is. Dude Screw that, What a terrible thing to do having your own setup based off of caring about what everyone else is doing.

Zagerus.8675:

I was considering Orr because it was in the context of what was being pointed out. If we are talking about Higher level Fractals Of COURSE it is going to be challenging to stay alive there. It does not get harder for no reason? Warriors are not magic wielders Protection doesn’t fit their archetype or role. They are a very physical profession, these are the designers own words. Should we give Thieves Protection too? Maybe that is what the designers want. Maybe they wish for Warriors to have running mates to reach full potential if you run DPS. Seriously a Skilled DPS Warrior with another teammate by their side would be a major reason I wouldn’t go near a cap point if I’m solo. I’ve never seen a designer say Hey, in sPvP and tPvP guys we would like every profession to be able to dismantle the battlefield on their own. It is a team gameplay type after all.. And about not running a Greatsword because everyone else is. Dude Screw that, What a terrible thing to do having your own setup based off of caring about what everyone else is doing.

Lore is basically the dumbest reason you could possibly use to support your opinion. Take the spiked armour trait, “Gain 5 seconds of retaliation when struck by a critical hit. Cannot trigger more than once every 15 seconds.”. What, your armour is only spiked 1/3 of the time and only after being struck in a weak spot? Why can’t your armour be more defensive /some/ of the time then?

Zagerus.8675:

They are a very physical profession, these are the designers own words. Should we give Thieves Protection too? Maybe that is what the designers want.

1) Thieves have magical stealth and shadow stepping
2) Stealth in itself is their nearly profession-unique defensive ability where you can literally avoid all damage as compared to a 33% reduction of damage. And don’t give me that AoE faulty reasoning, you can still dodge in stealth if necessary.

Zagerus.8675:

Hey, in sPvP and tPvP guys we would like every profession to be able to dismantle the battlefield on their own.

The fact that you think warriors will be able to do this once they receive access to protection makes it quite obvious you dont know what the problem with warrior in pvp is.

And please stop assuming /other/ people play zerker glass cannon GS 100b warriors in order to refer to us condescendingly to make your points feel superior. It doesn’t work like that.

Lower defy pain cd to 20 second..
Warrior is now fixed