Guild Wars 2

This class has no protection, stealth or frequent access to regeneration ticks/healing outside of 30 pt banners/ shouts. I suggest we consider buffing the healing spells by reducing their cds and nerfing other aspects of them to compensate

My suggestions to help the class sustainability:

Mending cooldown reduced to 15 seconds
Mending removes now only removes 1 condition

Healing surge cooldown reduced to 20 seconds
Healing surge now only grants 2 bars of adrenaline

Healing signet periodic healing now 2.5 times stronger
Healing signet on demand heal remains the same

What do you guys think? What suggestions do you have in mind?

change the heals completely, dont work around crappy ones. % healing on the warrior is a must and stability and retaliation should be worked into the core mechanics of the warrior a little more, perhaps through heals

Agree with %heal, that the heal scales with your health pool. That would be great.

/clap.

Actually really good suggestions to bring them in line with other classes healing abilities.

Stop it..no more suggestions for heals especially what happen this patch that came in. Really disappointed on how that was handled.

Brutalistik.6473:

Stop it..no more suggestions for heals especially what happen this patch that came in. Really disappointed on how that was handled.

Its not like they can make our heals any wors—….

Daecollo.9578:

Brutalistik.6473:

Stop it..no more suggestions for heals especially what happen this patch that came in. Really disappointed on how that was handled.

Its not like they can make our heals any wors—….

hehehe I know right

Healing surge is already good as it is imo, but mending feels kinda weak.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
Compare.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
Compare.

Lol.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
Compare.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
Compare.

Lol.

It’s like comparing an orange to an apple.

Both are different healing skills from different professions.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
Compare.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
Compare.

Lol.

Blood Fiend can die so that’s not a good comparison, but holy kitten Consume Conditions is literally a better version of Mending. Mending has no benefit over Consume Conditions. That’s baffling.

Donut.6914:

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
Compare.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Blood_Fiend
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
Compare.

Lol.

Blood Fiend can die so that’s not a good comparison, but holy kitten Consume Conditions is literally a better version of Mending. Mending has no benefit over Consume Conditions. That’s baffling.

Blood Fiend has 250% better healing, and can be killed at 1% HP instantly for a burst heal, and can be traited to remove conditions every 10 seconds, and can be a poison combo field.

100% agree. My main is a Ranger and my second is a Warrior. I have been playing my Ranger with GS + S/D = total melee in your face fighting. My Warrior is LB + A/S. When i was roaming last night on my Ranger I realized that I played him like a Warrior and I play my Warrior like a Ranger.

There is no way my Warrior would survive if I played him like I was playing my Ranger…why ? because the Ranger heals for a ton. He is waaaay more durable. How wacked is that ? Shouldn’t it be the other way around ?

Forzani.2584:

There is no way my Warrior would survive if I played him like I was playing my Ranger…why ? because the Ranger heals for a ton. He is waaaay more durable. How wacked is that ? Shouldn’t it be the other way around ?

You can probably do a lot more damage at ranged on the Warrior too.

I honestly think it might be worth adding more heals rather than improving our heals.

For example, if when the burst skill popped thanks to a trait you get regen and a small heal % proportional to health. This would make adrenaline a good healing mechanic as well as offense.

Retaliation also wouldnt be a bad step, or protection, any up front soldier class should have access to those two, don’t even have access to direct regen kitten

Sentinel VX.1392:

Healing surge is already good as it is imo, but mending feels kinda weak.

We need to use it while on max adrenaline to heal as much as a guardian does with healing signet, yet the guardians removes conditions on massive and it scales perfectly with their low hp pool while the survivalbility of the class allows for constant protection, high aegis count along retaliation up time. How is this “our best heal” good in anyway?

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

The longer we fight, the stronger we are? Just like Hulk..far from reality tho

Scoobaniec.9561:

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

The longer we fight, the stronger we are? Just like Hulk..far from reality tho

The longer the warrior stays in the fight the weaker he is actually. LOL
If you count evasion/protection/aegis as armor, we are outclassed by every class by almost twice, we are probably the glassiest of glass cannons, we don’t even have any on-demand condition removal.

I am still very new to the class so take my opinion with a grain of salt. To me, Warrior play feels like a parlor trick. Try for your burst…if you get it, you are likely to win. If not, you lose. You can get some amazing damage numbers fly across the screen at times, which is good for a giggle. Not very effective though overall.

Forzani.2584:

I am still very new to the class so take my opinion with a grain of salt. To me, Warrior play feels like a parlor trick. Try for your burst…if you get it, you are likely to win. If not, you lose. You can get some amazing damage numbers fly across the screen at times, which is good for a giggle. Not very effective though overall.

That damage is avoided with a single side-step.

Daecollo.9578:

Forzani.2584:

I am still very new to the class so take my opinion with a grain of salt. To me, Warrior play feels like a parlor trick. Try for your burst…if you get it, you are likely to win. If not, you lose. You can get some amazing damage numbers fly across the screen at times, which is good for a giggle. Not very effective though overall.

That damage is avoided with a single side-step.

Yep, which is pretty much the point I was making.

No, you pretty much grasp it. Thieves have cheap tricks, warrior is a cheap trick.

Warrior is a “One trick pony.” and is a firework.

They always do that same trick then die.

Healing Signet: Gives 300 HPS, 4K activated heal

Mending: Heals for the same, heal for an extra 800 for each condition removed.

Healing Surge: Fine as is

Passive condition removal

Warriors are built pretty well for WvW. Mobility is the best form of survivability – Warriors are one of the more mobile classes. Plus it’s pretty hard to pay attention to a warrior lining up a kill shot on you when you have 3 other people in your face. PvE they’re obviously extremely strong. sPvP, well… there’s plenty to be desired haha.

Lyonell.1753:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Healing surge is already good as it is imo, but mending feels kinda weak.

We need to use it while on max adrenaline to heal as much as a guardian does with healing signet, yet the guardians removes conditions on massive and it scales perfectly with their low hp pool while the survivalbility of the class allows for constant protection, high aegis count along retaliation up time. How is this “our best heal” good in anyway?

Like I said before, it’s like comparing an orange to an apple.

Both professions are not designed to have the same speciality, warrior is good for offence while guardian is good for defence. If you are saying that, why can’t a guardian burst as good as a warrior? it’s all about balance. You can’t have every “good” skills that every professions have into one single profession because that would be ridiculously unbalance. Every profession has its own strength and weakness.

Sentinel VX.1392:

Lyonell.1753:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Healing surge is already good as it is imo, but mending feels kinda weak.

We need to use it while on max adrenaline to heal as much as a guardian does with healing signet, yet the guardians removes conditions on massive and it scales perfectly with their low hp pool while the survivalbility of the class allows for constant protection, high aegis count along retaliation up time. How is this “our best heal” good in anyway?

Like I said before, it’s like comparing an orange to an apple.

Both professions are not designed to have the same speciality, warrior is good for offence while guardian is good for defence. If you are saying that, why can’t a guardian burst as good as a warrior? it’s all about balance. You can’t have every “good” skills that every professions have into one single profession because that would be ridiculously unbalance. Every profession has its own strength and weakness.

I actually think Guardian has more unpredictable easier to hit offense and outshines warrior in PvP for Damage, they’re damage is mostly unavoidable whereas warriors can be avoided by a simple blind or moving our of the way. There CC also can’t be controled either, there walls can’t be dispelled and there circles can’t be avoided by simply dodging through or out of them, if you try and dodge out of a wall or ward it will knock you down.

Sure they do things very differently, but you are dreaming if you think guardians can’t deal damage, even in a defensive spec they can do hilariously good AOE burning unavoidable damage.

Warrior may have bigger numbers, however almost every attack is beautifully choreographed so that pretty much anyone can see when to dodge and when to blind or avoid evade or aegis. This is why everyone wants a warrior in zones like COF1, where mobs are to stupid to do any of those things and just have big HP pools. Unfortunately, many players like it or not concerning the base intelligence of the forums are not stupid enough to stand still and take those numbers.

Saying warriors don’t deserve good sustain and defense just makes me realize that you have not played this game very long and don’t know the differences in real strength and power besides just big numbers.

Guardians are better than warriors period. I’ve mained both for a period, tested both extensively. Guardians just have so much more. Triple Meditation says hello for Damage by the way.

Of course Warriors and Guardians shouldn’t be the same, but if Guardians have the option to damage, Warriors should have the option to Sustain, 1.3k per shout heal is kitten poor compared to the health pool, and takes up room for very useful utilities like a Stability pop.

I don’t see Guardians popping kill shot damage. Please enlighten me!

osif.8673:

I don’t see Guardians popping kill shot damage. Please enlighten me!

Since you can’t read.

Warrior may have bigger numbers, however almost every attack is beautifully choreographed so that pretty much anyone can see when to dodge and when to blind or avoid evade or aegis.

Example: Kill Shot.
The warrior crouches on the ground and aims out his rifle, and for a bit he can’t do anything, you have almost 2 seconds to react to this.

Guardians meditation is instant cast and you don’t know when its coming, it can not only out-damage kill-shot for aoe burning damage but make an entire team back off or rethink there strategy. You really underestimate your own class.

Yup, hurts 1v1s. Everyone knows warriors fail at 1v1s, but it’s pretty obvious that ANet doesn’t care about duels and 1v1ing. Even great players aren’t going to notice a kill shot when they have other players in their face, trying to react to them.

osif.8673:

Yup, hurts 1v1s. Everyone knows warriors fail at 1v1s, but it’s pretty obvious that ANet doesn’t care about duels and 1v1ing. Even great players aren’t going to notice a kill shot when they have other players in their face, trying to react to them.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection

I never understand how people can compare other classes healing abilities or attacks in general when every class is built differently. Starting stats, traits, weapons, armor, and skills.

It just doesn’t make sense. You can’t even compare guardians to warriors because of the sheer difference of playstyle and mechanics.

Yes, help warriors out a little with their lack of sustain but don’t overlook their options for great damage capabilities. I play a kill or be killed playstyle until they can make a balance or bunker warrior somewhat viable.

Please stop comparing apples to oranges.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection

Oh gosh, are we really just lowering ourselves to the level of linking abilities that can counter an attack?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

I guess we are.

osif.8673:

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wall_of_Reflection

Oh gosh, are we really just lowering ourselves to the level of linking abilities that can counter an attack?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

I guess we are.

“Even great players aren’t going to notice a wall of reflection when they have other players in their face, trying to react to them.”

Repeat Quota, in the end the argument is the same. Both players just need to get better and LTP, unfortunately Warrior still suffers the deep end of that stick.

PistolWhip.2697:

Guardians are better than warriors period. I’ve mained both for a period, tested both extensively. Guardians just have so much more. Triple Meditation says hello for Damage by the way.

Of course Warriors and Guardians shouldn’t be the same, but if Guardians have the option to damage, Warriors should have the option to Sustain, 1.3k per shout heal is kitten poor compared to the health pool, and takes up room for very useful utilities like a Stability pop.

PistolWhip, I respectfully disagree. If both classes had similar beginning stats then I would agree but the sheer 700-800 vitality difference is where the sustain comes into play. You won’t see guardians rocking crazy big numbers without some weakness. Also, meditations do not offer a ton of damage opportunity besides smite condition if it has a condition and crits. JI is not a great ability for damage. Low damage and a 3 second burn is not huge bonus to damage. I’ve played meditations, AH, Healway, and Boonway. I have yet to find the mother of all builds where I can absorb a ton of damage, put out huge numbers, and have crazy amounts of heals going. I have wasted countless hours on build craft trying to find the perfect mix…

I think there is also a poorly designed mechanic for the warrior. Burst. This class is a burst class, clearly because there is not one solid condition build out there used in PvP or WvW where condition removal is widely available through traits and skills, except the warrior who is lacking.

In WoW, burst was king in PvP. Let’s be honest, in any MMO with pvp, burst has always been king but it’s unexpected.

So you’re saying that warriors are using kill shot while they’re being pressured. That may be true, but they are terrible players. If you don’t notice a wall of reflection while you’re channeling kill shot at its delicious range, you’re not very good. Any decent player will always know when they’re about to shoot into a reflection field. You don’t even have to be great.

“Even great players aren’t going to notice a wall of reflection when they have other players in their face, trying to react to them.”

Your quote doesn’t hold any ground, while mine that you were trying to copy does.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

PistolWhip.2697:

Guardians are better than warriors period. I’ve mained both for a period, tested both extensively. Guardians just have so much more. Triple Meditation says hello for Damage by the way.

Of course Warriors and Guardians shouldn’t be the same, but if Guardians have the option to damage, Warriors should have the option to Sustain, 1.3k per shout heal is kitten poor compared to the health pool, and takes up room for very useful utilities like a Stability pop.

PistolWhip, I respectfully disagree. If both classes had similar beginning stats then I would agree but the sheer 700-800 vitality difference is where the sustain comes into play. You won’t see guardians rocking crazy big numbers without some weakness. Also, meditations do not offer a ton of damage opportunity besides smite condition if it has a condition and crits. JI is not a great ability for damage. Low damage and a 3 second burn is not huge bonus to damage. I’ve played meditations, AH, Healway, and Boonway. I have yet to find the mother of all builds where I can absorb a ton of damage, put out huge numbers, and have crazy amounts of heals going. I have wasted countless hours on build craft trying to find the perfect mix…

Then you look at traits, Guardians can get traits like this “Main hand weapons get 15% Extra Critical Chance.” Which accounts for 315 precision in one trait.

Also there 15% Damage reduction from a signet from a trait, which is almost 400-600 toughness in a single utility.

They simply have better traits and better utility skills.

They have a really nice toughness tree which allows them to get critical damage from it, they saves them almost 300 in stats, where a warrior has to waste 30 points to get critical damage, (BRAWN, IT DOES NOTHING!)

Guardians simply have much better traits.

Daecollo.9578:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

PistolWhip.2697:

Guardians are better than warriors period. I’ve mained both for a period, tested both extensively. Guardians just have so much more. Triple Meditation says hello for Damage by the way.

Of course Warriors and Guardians shouldn’t be the same, but if Guardians have the option to damage, Warriors should have the option to Sustain, 1.3k per shout heal is kitten poor compared to the health pool, and takes up room for very useful utilities like a Stability pop.

PistolWhip, I respectfully disagree. If both classes had similar beginning stats then I would agree but the sheer 700-800 vitality difference is where the sustain comes into play. You won’t see guardians rocking crazy big numbers without some weakness. Also, meditations do not offer a ton of damage opportunity besides smite condition if it has a condition and crits. JI is not a great ability for damage. Low damage and a 3 second burn is not huge bonus to damage. I’ve played meditations, AH, Healway, and Boonway. I have yet to find the mother of all builds where I can absorb a ton of damage, put out huge numbers, and have crazy amounts of heals going. I have wasted countless hours on build craft trying to find the perfect mix…

Then you look at traits, Guardians can get traits like this “Main hand weapons get 15% Extra Critical Chance.” Which accounts for 315 precision in one trait.

Also there 15% Damage reduction from a signet from a trait, which is almost 400-600 toughness in a single utility.

They simply have better traits and better utility skills.

They have a really nice toughness tree which allows them to get critical damage from it, they saves them almost 300 in stats, where a warrior has to waste 30 points to get critical damage, (BRAWN, IT DOES NOTHING!)

Guardians simply have much better traits.

The warrior has access to other great damage traits as well. Don’t forget the 10% crit chance for swords, 25% dmg bonus for hammers (when disabled), 12% with full adrenaline, might on crit from GS, 9% crit with full adrenaline, and I mean I can find more if I felt like pulling open the calculator. The options are there. If they gave warrior 300 toughness + 30% crit damage on top of what they are capable of right now every warrior would be smart to roll a GC because their ridiculous options for damage. It would be insane. But since guardian can’t produce the same dps output(100B, Kill shot, Earthquake, etc) then it’s a great trait line for a front line dps. GS, axe, and hammer (though slower) all produce great damage.

Again, we are trying to compare two classes, on differently playing fields, with different mechanics and it will be almost impossible to make an accurate compare and contrast of the two classes.

If I had the time, I would not mind trying to write up a lengthy and thorough analysis of the two classes detailing starting stats, traits, trait line bonuses, weapon skills, optimal dps output, and their weaknesses.

But that’s the beauty of it. If I play one class, it won’t feel like I’ve played both at the same time. I thank Anet for not homogenizing the classes together that closely and giving distinct mechanics but at the same time I do think warriors got the shorter end of the stick when it comes to their class specific bonuses known as brawn. They need to rework their philosophy on what burst is and how warriors can access it.

I agree we need a bit more healing… I have a certain build in mine that would have amazing results on a guardian, but poorer results on a warrior because our healing is a tad lackluster outside of Surge. However I came from WoW and pretty much the first three months, Warriors healing was severely unbalanced that no one could bring them past 35%. it’s a bit better now, but I hope that if they do decided to do something with our healing Signet, or whatever else that it isn’t super overboard. I think with the warrior’s high HP, Healing signet changed to a percent heal, or having it scale better with healing power would do wonders.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

PistolWhip.2697:

Guardians are better than warriors period. I’ve mained both for a period, tested both extensively. Guardians just have so much more. Triple Meditation says hello for Damage by the way.

Of course Warriors and Guardians shouldn’t be the same, but if Guardians have the option to damage, Warriors should have the option to Sustain, 1.3k per shout heal is kitten poor compared to the health pool, and takes up room for very useful utilities like a Stability pop.

PistolWhip, I respectfully disagree. If both classes had similar beginning stats then I would agree but the sheer 700-800 vitality difference is where the sustain comes into play. You won’t see guardians rocking crazy big numbers without some weakness. Also, meditations do not offer a ton of damage opportunity besides smite condition if it has a condition and crits. JI is not a great ability for damage. Low damage and a 3 second burn is not huge bonus to damage. I’ve played meditations, AH, Healway, and Boonway. I have yet to find the mother of all builds where I can absorb a ton of damage, put out huge numbers, and have crazy amounts of heals going. I have wasted countless hours on build craft trying to find the perfect mix…

Well I have to respectfully disagree with some parts too. I agree that we shouldn’t compare classes, I didn’t mean to compare traits or skills and such, but more so, how well one is made in comparison to another for its uses.

I can honestly hand on heart say having played both Guardian and Warrior extensively in spvp, my time as a Guardian was unbelievable. Honestly, triple meditation did amazing damage, and I had relative toughness still even with all this damage. Not to mention, every melee class, especially thieves fell flat because my plethora of blocks and blinds destroyed all their attacks. One obstacle I could never beat on my Guardian was a good mesmer, but I don’t know if thats because certain Mesmer builds are overpowered in 1v1, or my playstyle just had its achilles heal there. Then again I also havent found a build to counter them well on Warrior either. Subjective experience plays a big role here, obviously but for me I still stand Guardian is far better made and fleshed out, and can do amazing things with just 1 build, let alone the others.

@osif

Honestly, If warriors could have nearly as much sustain and staying power as a guardian, I’d gladly sacrifice Killshot. Please, take it. Its terrible in a lot of fights in my experience, then again I find it easy to evade because I’ve played warrior enough to know the animation to the teeth even in group fights, in zergs I get caught yes, but if all you’re using is rifle in zerg fights, that is questionable I’d say.

So honestly, take my kill shot, and give me some of what Guardian’s have thank you.

I have played both a guardian and a warrior. my guardian has more hp then my warrior and is more likely to survive if the warrior is glass cannon. I fought around 4-5 people at the same time on my guardian(i survived long enough for backup) and with just 2 people its more then likely my warrior will die. unless i catch them unprepared. then i burst their faces off and pray that hb and eviscerate kills the first one at least.

Daecollo.9578:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Lyonell.1753:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Healing surge is already good as it is imo, but mending feels kinda weak.

We need to use it while on max adrenaline to heal as much as a guardian does with healing signet, yet the guardians removes conditions on massive and it scales perfectly with their low hp pool while the survivalbility of the class allows for constant protection, high aegis count along retaliation up time. How is this “our best heal” good in anyway?

Like I said before, it’s like comparing an orange to an apple.

Both professions are not designed to have the same speciality, warrior is good for offence while guardian is good for defence. If you are saying that, why can’t a guardian burst as good as a warrior? it’s all about balance. You can’t have every “good” skills that every professions have into one single profession because that would be ridiculously unbalance. Every profession has its own strength and weakness.

I actually think Guardian has more unpredictable easier to hit offense and outshines warrior in PvP for Damage, they’re damage is mostly unavoidable whereas warriors can be avoided by a simple blind or moving our of the way. There CC also can’t be controled either, there walls can’t be dispelled and there circles can’t be avoided by simply dodging through or out of them, if you try and dodge out of a wall or ward it will knock you down.

Sure they do things very differently, but you are dreaming if you think guardians can’t deal damage, even in a defensive spec they can do hilariously good AOE burning unavoidable damage.

Warrior may have bigger numbers, however almost every attack is beautifully choreographed so that pretty much anyone can see when to dodge and when to blind or avoid evade or aegis. This is why everyone wants a warrior in zones like COF1, where mobs are to stupid to do any of those things and just have big HP pools. Unfortunately, many players like it or not concerning the base intelligence of the forums are not stupid enough to stand still and take those numbers.

Saying warriors don’t deserve good sustain and defense just makes me realize that you have not played this game very long and don’t know the differences in real strength and power besides just big numbers.

Did I say guardian can’t be spec to deal high damage? no? even necro can be build to deal high damage but it won’t be as good as the other profession.

Can warrior be spec to use a defence build? sure thing as long you spec it in that way but it won’t be as good as guardian defence build.

Can a guardian get fury with its own skill? hell no, warrior can even get a full uptime fury.

Healing only gives you more chance to do mistake in combat most of the time, it’s risk vs reward. If you want to heal a lot then use guardian. Sure you will survive more longer but you will realize that warrior can kill more faster than a guardian potentially.

Compare guardian skills with warrior skills, you will find a very significant difference between them. They are designed to specifically good at what they are supposed to do.

Look at YouTube about a warrior can solo lupicus. You do realize right that a warrior has bigger HP pool than a guardian?

I also never said warrior don’t deserve good defence, but they are already have that if they are spec to be so.

I’ve played this game since release and clocking +1800 hours so far. My main is a guardian that I’ve played over 800 hours and I also have played my warrior over 500 hours, heck even I have 2 lv80 warrior. I have played all professions to lv80(except ranger) and I’ve played them all for dungeon running, even all of my lv80 are fully exo.

Don’t compare spvp in this because Anet gonna make the skills separate from pve and wvw.

My point is that every class has its own speciality in which they are good at. I’m sure Anet has a manifesto about all the professions.

Warrior can solo Lupricus.

However, that was preOmnomberry Pie Nerf. Guardian can solo him post-nerf.

who cares about healing, the point of this game is to prevent from getting hit not healing..

Daecollo.9578:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

PistolWhip.2697:

Guardians are better than warriors period. I’ve mained both for a period, tested both extensively. Guardians just have so much more. Triple Meditation says hello for Damage by the way.

Of course Warriors and Guardians shouldn’t be the same, but if Guardians have the option to damage, Warriors should have the option to Sustain, 1.3k per shout heal is kitten poor compared to the health pool, and takes up room for very useful utilities like a Stability pop.

PistolWhip, I respectfully disagree. If both classes had similar beginning stats then I would agree but the sheer 700-800 vitality difference is where the sustain comes into play. You won’t see guardians rocking crazy big numbers without some weakness. Also, meditations do not offer a ton of damage opportunity besides smite condition if it has a condition and crits. JI is not a great ability for damage. Low damage and a 3 second burn is not huge bonus to damage. I’ve played meditations, AH, Healway, and Boonway. I have yet to find the mother of all builds where I can absorb a ton of damage, put out huge numbers, and have crazy amounts of heals going. I have wasted countless hours on build craft trying to find the perfect mix…

Then you look at traits, Guardians can get traits like this “Main hand weapons get 15% Extra Critical Chance.” Which accounts for 315 precision in one trait.

Also there 15% Damage reduction from a signet from a trait, which is almost 400-600 toughness in a single utility.

They simply have better traits and better utility skills.

They have a really nice toughness tree which allows them to get critical damage from it, they saves them almost 300 in stats, where a warrior has to waste 30 points to get critical damage, (BRAWN, IT DOES NOTHING!)

Guardians simply have much better traits.

If you think guardian is better than warrior, then simply role one.

No one force you to play warrior because a warrior will never a guardian in anyway.

Daecollo.9578:

Warrior can solo Lupricus.

However, that was preOmnomberry Pie Nerf. Guardian can solo him post-nerf.

Even a thief who has lower defence can solo lupicus without omnomnom food.

Now what? you gonna compare thief with guardian and warrior as well?