Guild Wars 2

Im really confused.
I main a warrior, played since beta.

All i see now are " warrior are so OP" and " nerf warrior"!

When did we become so godmode???
When they buffed healing signet from useless to acutally usefull?
When they introduced dogged march and cleansing ire?
Or when warriors became usefull and stopped being a “free kill”

For a VERY long time warriors was a joke and at the bottom of the foodchain ( not talking about noob PvE…who cares about that anyways?)

Then the devs fixed some of our issues and now we are “OP”?

Im having a really bad feeling, that the devs will nerf us to the ground again, with all these threads about us being so god kitten OP

I have no idea either.
We are still not that good in my opinion. Lots of our skills still needs to be fixed…

ShadowNinja.1238:

Cause Healing Signet and ultra high stats. With full zerk u can get 3k armour 20k hp tell me thats not op.

U really need to get out more.
healing signet makes us “OP”?…really…guess the regeneration boon also makes people “OP” then.

Full zerker does not give u 3K armor….just saying
BTW…warrior stats has not changed since day 1 of this game…why is it a big deal now?

ShadowNinja.1238:

Cause Healing Signet and ultra high stats. With full zerk u can get 3k armour 20k hp tell me thats not op.

We are OP because of guys like this one who have no idea of warriors, their skills/stats or animations.

We actually got nerfed a lot past patches, only 3 important changes made us strong:
1) Healing signet buff (which was needed)
2) Cleansing Ire (needs ICD of 7s imo, would weaken the dominant hambow build)
3) Dogged March (deserved, warriors in WvW definitely needed this)

All the rest were damage nerfs accept these 3 buffs. Now you can tell me if we are truly OP. Just don’t believe the bad players who can’t dodge. Warrior at the moment is really strong against players who can’t read animations. Against good players a warrior is meh. Not bad, not very good, so balanced.

I think it has become common practice for some people, when they get killed 1v1, to go on forums and start a fuss about nerfing that profession. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Game developers make their own observations and assumptions, they don’t base their game on a bunch of whiners’ opinions.

We became OP since the day some idiots decide to stand within melee distance and hoped to win.

OP reminds me of some good ol’days :P…

Remember when warriors could get 12% bonus dmg and crit chance by just spending 20 trait points? Remember when warriors could do over 26k dmg with lvl 3 axe burst?… the list goes on and on…

Anyways, i’m going to say to warriors have been nerf-ed, alot, if we are still in the ‘OMG warz are OP plz nervvvv!!1’ category, then i must say other classes in the game had been nerf-ed to ground (or worse… grounder then ground… i dunno) without my notice :P

Imho, good players are usually the one that understand their characters’ strength and weakness, admit there are builds that are bane to their characters’ existence, and don’t forget to mention polished gaming skill, instead of yelling OP everywhere :P

PS1 I do think if every class is ‘OP-ed’ will ultimately create a balanced game, let thieves burst as hell, but make sure make sure they go straight to hell if they get caught. Let mesmers dance around as much as they like, but make sure they will get hairy if they face a condi heavy build…etc

PS2 I meant no offense to others when i define ‘good players’, i myself is a terrible PvP player and i admit it, and i won’t yell XX is OP everywhere when i get my kitten kicked by skillful players. not to mention i really enjoy my main —-a brainless, smelly, 100 blade loving sucker XD

Romgaard.1965:

ShadowNinja.1238:

Cause Healing Signet and ultra high stats. With full zerk u can get 3k armour 20k hp tell me thats not op.

U really need to get out more.
healing signet makes us “OP”?…really…guess the regeneration boon also makes people “OP” then.

Full zerker does not give u 3K armor….just saying
BTW…warrior stats has not changed since day 1 of this game…why is it a big deal now?

Only if the regeneration is not removable and someone with 2096 healing power. That is without adrenal health being brought into the mix.

ShadowNinja.1238:

Cause Healing Signet and ultra high stats. With full zerk u can get 3k armour 20k hp tell me thats not op.

lol, the highest you can get is 2800 armor with full zerk, 30 points in defense, toughness runes and Dolyak signet at which point the build is no longer zerk. use up your Dolyak Signet and you are down to 2700 armor, if your health drops below 90% you are now 2600 if Doly Signet is on CD. You would also need 20 points in Tactics to get 20 k health, even less zerk.

@OP People started crying OP when warriors because the anti condition meta. Now all those people playing condi-bunkers are crying cause their OP builds are getting destroyed by the rock to their scissors.

I would say a class is OP when it can get 3 of the main stats over 2k points … in sPvP, without signets (yes the bunker build I tryed had 2k+ Power, 2k+ Toughness and 2k+ Vitality, I ran with Mace + Shield and Hammer and guess who ppl coulnd’t kill? Me)

These stats with you actual regen and condi cleanse, not to mention the amount of knockback and stuns you can have while doing fine damage … Idk but I would say you are kinda OP, but thats just me.
Also going to WvW underlvl (at 40+) and getting over 10k Hundred Blades on Champs when I’m not stacked. Not OP at all.

you are answering everything your self Romgaard healing signet is crazy at the moment

mPascoal.4258:

I would say a class is OP when it can get 3 of the main stats over 2k points … in sPvP, without signets (yes the bunker build I tryed had 2k+ Power, 2k+ Toughness and 2k+ Vitality, I ran with Mace + Shield and Hammer and guess who ppl coulnd’t kill? Me)

These stats with you actual regen and condi cleanse, not to mention the amount of knockback and stuns you can have while doing fine damage … Idk but I would say you are kinda OP, but thats just me.
Also going to WvW underlvl (at 40+) and getting over 10k Hundred Blades on Champs when I’m not stacked. Not OP at all.

So you ONLY look at a class his stats to decide he is OP or not. Not at his individual skills? How they work? Cast times? Cooldowns? Dmg modifiers? Which skill you can take in combination with others? Not the skill animations? How easy they are dodged? Not at how damage is mitigated (blocks/stealth/protection)? Skill synergy? How a class performs against other, counters and weaknesses? What fields he has and how many blasts?

You see, this game has a lot more depth than ‘just stats’. If you would only look at stats than warrior would be worst of the worst. Warrior does not own fancy dmg negation skills. We don’t have fields we can swap out and blast depending if we need CC, might or healing. We don’t have great skill synergy. The only synergy you can come up with is the stunlock combo and that only works against new players and people who don’t want to get good in this game. Warrior do not have skill combos that wtf roflstomp players in 1-2 seconds. We have easy to see, well telegraphed skills that are enormously easy to dodge or step out from. We have to balance CC and damage to kill our targets and it always takes some time. (don’t include eviscerating upscaled, talking against decent players here).

Believe me, ICD of 7s on cleansing ire and HS nerf of 8% and nobody can complain warrior is OP without making a fool out of himself.

Julie Yann.5379:

ShadowNinja.1238:

Cause Healing Signet and ultra high stats. With full zerk u can get 3k armour 20k hp tell me thats not op.

lol, the highest you can get is 2800 armor with full zerk, 30 points in defense, toughness runes and Dolyak signet at which point the build is no longer zerk. use up your Dolyak Signet and you are down to 2700 armor, if your health drops below 90% you are now 2600 if Doly Signet is on CD. You would also need 20 points in Tactics to get 20 k health, even less zerk.

@OP People started crying OP when warriors because the anti condition meta. Now all those people playing condi-bunkers are crying cause their OP builds are getting destroyed by the rock to their scissors.

2800 armor? Wow, how glassy.

for god says, everyone here are right, warriors got nerf alot and we don’t need nerf anymore and this really kitten me off when there are some none-brain the post in the forum “nerf warriors” “plz nerf warriors” that they didn’t play warriors for the intier game.
Healing signet- at last we got a good survivable think to stay at battle
Cleansing Ire- God bless the guy that think about it, at last we can deal with condition builds and not mealt down like oozs.
and for the last Dogged March- my favorite trait that help me from annoying stucks and also need for FrontLine zerg warrior (and PVE at fractal if you know what i mean)

2800 armor on some classes would be considered full bunker and you’d have to sacrifice pretty much all your damage to get that. Non warriors generally have 1700ish armor or less in zerk gear and you people think 2800 is glassy for being in zerk gear. unbelievable.

2800 armor? Wow, how glassy.

It’s actually 2600 in fight. Protection/blind give you A LOT MORE DEFENSE.

Nikkinella.8254:

2800 armor on some classes would be considered full bunker and you’d have to sacrifice pretty much all your damage to get that. Non warriors generally have 1700ish armor or less in zerk gear and you people think 2800 is glassy for being in zerk gear. unbelievable.

ummm, how can you have 1700ish armor or less when the base armor for light armor classes at lvl 80 is 1800?

LarzoSk.5412:

2800 armor? Wow, how glassy.

It’s actually 2600 in fight. Protection/blind give you A LOT MORE DEFENSE.

Exactly, protection is equal to 28 points defense. Eles and Guardians can easily have near perma protection freeing up points to put towards other useful traits. Heck a full zerk Ele with no toughness runes and 0 poitns in earth, while under effects of protection, has the same amount damage reduction as a Zerk warrior with toughness runes and 30 points in defense.

Blind is the ultimate defense, you can’t do damage when you miss, and thieves and guardians have a amazing supply of it.

It isn’t that warrior is OP. It is that hambow is OP.

style.6173:

It isn’t that warrior is OP. It is that hambow is OP.

I tend to agree, in PvP almost any variant of the Hmabow build is still amazingly strong even after the Hammer and LB nerfs but how OP is it compared to a grenade spamming Engi, or Spirit Ranger, or certain Mesmer Builds?

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

Julie Yann.5379:

LarzoSk.5412:

2800 armor? Wow, how glassy.

It’s actually 2600 in fight. Protection/blind give you A LOT MORE DEFENSE.

Exactly, protection is equal to 28 points defense. Eles and Guardians can easily have near perma protection freeing up points to put towards other useful traits. Heck a full zerk Ele with no toughness runes and 0 poitns in earth, while under effects of protection, has the same amount damage reduction as a Zerk warrior with toughness runes and 30 points in defense.

Blind is the ultimate defense, you can’t do damage when you miss, and thieves and guardians have a amazing supply of it.

A zerker ele takes 13.68% more damage than a zerker warrior.
That means that if an ele has protection on 41% the time, they will be the same as a zerker warrior with nothing.

The protection makes them barely better than a zerker warrior with no points in defense, and does not free up any points at all, it takes them all away with nothing left. A zerker warrior with no trait or utility investment gets what is almost the equivalent of 41% protection uptime for free when their armor is compared to light armor classes.

This is just armor, let’s not forget the warrior’s 7-8k extra health, and healing signet.

If an ele uses ether renewal, they can get at max 333 health per second without healing gear. They would be forced to spend 4 seconds out of every 15 seconds just healing and hoping against hopes that no stuns or dazes will hit them.

Healing signet can get 392 health per second with no activation, no need to re-cast as soon as possible, and no healing gear.

However, I can agree with you on blinds. 3+ seconds on a blind is basically a free aegis, and requires no skill to use.

Ryze.2891:

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

Don’t bring up the class flavor text descriptions as they are not a good argument at best and at worst just gets into nitpicking about in this case what ‘master’ means, or anyother vague terms that the description might invoke.

I’ll be honest. I feel heartier with my Engi than my warrior. Stats are all well and good, but being able to gain protection, have perma-vigor, perma-swiftness, aoe blinds, tons of combo fields and blast finishers is much better in my book. It’s about more than just “he’s got 22k hp and 2800 armor and I only have 19k hp and 2600 armor!”

Romgaard.1965:

U really need to get out more.
healing signet makes us “OP”?…really…guess the regeneration boon also makes people “OP” then.

Regeneration heals for a third of what Healing Signet heals for, is a boon (and thus removable), doesn’t have a 100% uptime, and tends to be one of the main healing mechanisms of builds that run regeneration anyways.

Full zerker does not give u 3K armor….just saying

3k armor is an obvious exaggeration, but a relatively standard warrior build like this one can easily get over 2550 Defense (armor + toughness), which, combined with the additional 8k health and Healing Signet, makes warrior ridiculously OP.

BTW…warrior stats has not changed since day 1 of this game…why is it a big deal now?

Because warriors were, for a very, very long time, horridly underpowered, to the point in which asking for a nerf to them was completely irrational. Nowadays, however, that’s completely different. The problems warriors once had have now been fixed (with interest on top), and that extra 8k health and additional toughness makes a massive difference.

we become OP since the best warrior from NA created the Hambow meta.

Warrior stats have nothing to do with being OP, warrior was terrible for a long time with those stats.

How “OP” actually happened:

• CI and zerk stance were introduced, but warrior was still UP. Not enough sustain, still a slow death, but close to useful.
• Healing signet boosted a huge amount. This was the patch that tipped the scales, but still no one played warrior until…
• Good fights wins tournament using hambow warrior (anas tarcis’ build)

After that, the flood gates opened.

Just to be clear though 1/2 of being labeled “OP” is being a popular class, which warrior became after a few key tournament showings.

I want to make 1 remark…

People do your research before posting in a thread, pretty much everyone complaining about warriors comes with false incorrect data rendering their posts useless and worthless. I like to see discussions like this, but you are looking at completely the wrong things and things you are saying aren’t true either. So please, do some research and get the correct numbers.

That being said, here is what I would do to warrior:
1) ICD of 7s on cleansing ire
2) Rush range decrease to 900
3) HS reduction with 8%

Done, I play a lot on warrior and duel a lot aswel. I fought other warriors too and hammer is so easy to dodge, come on. With the changes I mentioned, you can’t complain about warriors anymore. They’ll be inline with any other class.

To answer your question, see: Thief class

• Was OP with culling and mug crits at launch
• Nerfed culling + mug
• Nerfed damage
• Nerfed evades

And thieves are still cried over as being OP. Unfortunately, it’s coming.

When people lost the ability to get free bags.

Its a combination of things:

- Its one of the easiest classes to be effective with in tpvp (this is the main thing).
- Immunities
- Combustive shot covering an entire node, basicly forcing anything but bunkery build characters off the node.
- Passive heal (so no risk to get interupted)
- Some builds being able to do very good burst and/or sustained damage while being tanky at the same time.
- Pindown with its poor telegraph, long immob and high dmg bleeds.

If you combine these features you get a class that is a valuable asset whereever you put it. They can defend homenodes, push far nodes solo, are great in teamfights, great 1v1ers vs all roamers (thieves, eles, mesmers), can sustain for a bit vs multiple ppl due to their immunities, etc etc.

And yes ive played warrior extensively vs top tier competition.

mPascoal.4258:

I would say a class is OP when it can get 3 of the main stats over 2k points …

I could have stopped reading this nonsense after the first sentence.

The biggest problem: people are confused having a lot of options with being able to everything at once.

Warrior are OPed in the following way:
1. Warrior can do a lot of things well, but not at the same time.
2. Warrior is easy to play.

Personally I think that should be the goal for every class, and the fact that warrior is that way should be celebrated. People should tell Anet: you guys did a good job with warrior, now give other classes the same options.

Well the thing that bothers me the most is their passive healing requiring no action from the player. Healing sig + adrenaline health is very strong at the moment. The best counter is poison but easily removed with cleaning ire. Other professions however have to actually time their healing skills. They have to consider when its best to use it and their heals can actually be interrupted. What’s even more alarming is the healing signet is one of the highest (If not highest??) healing per sec compared to other heals in game. Anyways, a Nerf is already confirmed and supposedly its an 8% decrease in heal sig passive.

You guys have to remember, the people who cry about warriors are obviously not a skilled player.. Now, heal sig does need the nerf it’s getting but honestly the only time I lose to a warrior is when I mess up. In my opinion warriors are an easy class, but not OP..

MiLkZz.4789:

I want to make 1 remark…

People do your research before posting in a thread, pretty much everyone complaining about warriors comes with false incorrect data rendering their posts useless and worthless. I like to see discussions like this, but you are looking at completely the wrong things and things you are saying aren’t true either. So please, do some research and get the correct numbers.

That being said, here is what I would do to warrior:
1) ICD of 7s on cleansing ire
2) Rush range decrease to 900
3) HS reduction with 8%

Done, I play a lot on warrior and duel a lot aswel. I fought other warriors too and hammer is so easy to dodge, come on. With the changes I mentioned, you can’t complain about warriors anymore. They’ll be inline with any other class.

1.) Agreed
2.) Maybe but I am assuming you mean either Rush on GS or Bulls Rush, in which case they need to have their tracking adjusted so that they can actually hit a moving target
3.) Agreed, though it’s coming anyways so It wouldn’t mattered if I disagreed.

Amonatory.2453:

You guys have to remember, the people who cry about warriors are obviously not a skilled player.. Now, heal sig does need the nerf it’s getting but honestly the only time I lose to a warrior is when I mess up. In my opinion warriors are an easy class, but not OP..

Pretty much all top tier tpvp players made statements like that. So i guess all those guys are not skilled?

I think you are talking about wvw where 99.99% of the players are comparable to trashmobs difficulty wise. Its really bold to make claims that something is OP or not if meeting guys that are on par skillwise is a rarity. AND there is somewhat of a powercreep in wvw due to ascended gear and certain nerfs not being applied to wvw.

Locuz.2651:

Amonatory.2453:

You guys have to remember, the people who cry about warriors are obviously not a skilled player.. Now, heal sig does need the nerf it’s getting but honestly the only time I lose to a warrior is when I mess up. In my opinion warriors are an easy class, but not OP..

Pretty much all top tier tpvp players made statements like that. So i guess all those guys are not skilled?

I think you are talking about wvw where 99.99% of the players are comparable to trashmobs difficulty wise. Its really bold to make claims that something is OP or not if meeting guys that are on par skillwise is a rarity. AND there is somewhat of a powercreep in wvw due to ascended gear and certain nerfs not being applied to wvw.

oh look here he goes again, spouting random things which become “facts” because he said so.
Atctually never seen pro players with mentioned statements. Im sorry, your allmighty rank is far away from pro, but we can add you statement to those whiners who has trouble learning to play

Probably slightly after June 25, 2013, just to give a few days for PvPers to actually figure out how broken warriors had become after that patch.

Vindicator.5384:

I think it has become common practice for some people, when they get killed 1v1, to go on forums and start a fuss about nerfing that profession. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Game developers make their own observations and assumptions, they don’t base their game on a bunch of whiners’ opinions.

This. 100% this. It’s the same reason you see people crying for a prismatic understanding nerf for mesmers. Rather than learning from a loss and doing the work to understand how a class/build/trait works, the majority of people will assume the loss was not their fault and the opponent is “op.”

I don’t think anybody is trying to say warriors are OP in spvp ( if so they don’t know what they’re talking about" however, in wvw it is extremely easy to play. With adrenal health+signet+regen from dogged march you have insane passive regen. Most warrior’s trait defensively and gear defensively in wvw so conditions are easily cleansed and the duration is drastically reduced.

In WvW healing signet nerf won’t be noticeable and will weaken the currently nearly unkillable warrior. In spvp however, the signet nerf is unnecessary, this is one of those times where they have to separate the skills for spvp and wvw/pve.

We are not,people need to stop whining and learn how to play.

Many believe that we became OP when our peers failed to realize that there is no “Universal Build That Does Everything Extremely Well”.
Yes, certain classes are weaker in some aspects, but also excel at others.
People see a build/class that just completely spanks them, and automatically think everyone uses that same build, and then the cries for nerfs come.

Perhaps we should ask ANET to try balancing other classes to bring them up to speed.

ahhh how I love this its ok keep the tears running down them cheeks we are warrior’s we are meant to be IN YOUR FACE, if you cant handle the fact that we are the master race off fighting people head to head well roll a kitten thief stealth and GTFO my level and go 1shot our ele’s/mesmers end stop cussing, we need to spend at least 20 into defensive for good Condition control/ extra regen, and 30 into defensive to make all u 1 trick ponies cry cause u cant 1 shot us and we can turn around and wombo combo you to death…oh wait…COMBO yes we don’t 1 shot. You guys are just godawful at dodging or too kitten greedy and forget about our Surprise Eviscerate that can crit ur whole lifebar…but hey warriors are op cause I cant run up to them and claim my loot bag anymore!

Romgaard.1965:

ShadowNinja.1238:

Cause Healing Signet and ultra high stats. With full zerk u can get 3k armour 20k hp tell me thats not op.

U really need to get out more.
healing signet makes us “OP”?…really…guess the regeneration boon also makes people “OP” then.

Full zerker does not give u 3K armor….just saying
BTW…warrior stats has not changed since day 1 of this game…why is it a big deal now?

2 reasons I imagine.
first is because they haven’t had any major nerfs and have been able to hold a pretty steady spot from where they started because of this while everyone is getting nerfed into the ground patch after patch.
the other reason is its been an issue almost from the start. warriors has been hated and loved for it.

alot of the other classes are just sick and tired of warriors coming unscratched from every patch. Anet needs to do more then change the description of skill or add/remove .2 seconds from skills. I for one feel like anet is to scared to change anything and alot of players have started to figure that out as well.

People should stop relying on stats, this is a game that have an active combat mechanics. No sane person will stand toe to toe with a war and just auto attack and click skill. If that is how you play, then this game is not for you. Its pointless to have the best stats in the game if you don’t even know how to play the game.

Active gameplay>passive stats.

Your problems come in because while the stats themselves don’t make you OP, if you build your warrior right you can be immune to most cc (for a large portion of most battles), while having tons of CC (which bypass immunities of some classes when they clearly are not suppose to), being able to move distance faster than every class (except a certain thief build), having good dps, and having good defense.

The only thing a warrior is missing these days is stealth. The better stuff from every other class has been mixed into a warrior, and if you have a decent build, and are of even average skill, it pus you heads and tails above most other classes/builds.

The other classes and builds tend to have to give up a lot to get way above average in something. Warriors, right now, don’t give up much at all to get way above average in almost everything (again except stealth).

Does that mean every warrior will experience this? No, as some people have no skill so it wouldn’t matter what class they play, they will still be bad even on a very powerful class. Also, not every warrior builds the same and there is only one viable warrior build. Further, some people just don’t have the intellect to put things together and chain skills to make their warrior stand out and do a ton better. Hence, many thinking that their warrior is still a bad class. Hey, it’s just reality there…few are great, not very many are good, a lot are average, and he rest suck. That goes for everything in life.

Basically though, if warrior isn’t nerfed the other classes/builds (even other warrior builds) need a freaking hell of a lot of work to come up to par. That is what really needs to be done, but since the beginning of this game that hasn’t even been attempted, so expect the nerf calls to continue.

Buzzcrave.6197:

People should stop relying on stats, this is a game that have an active combat mechanics. No sane person will stand toe to toe with a war and just auto attack and click skill. If that is how you play, then this game is not for you. Its pointless to have the best stats in the game if you don’t even know how to play the game.

Active gameplay>passive stats.

Fix the immunities and skills of other classes and they wouldn’t stand toe to toe. However, right now, there isn’t much choice, our warriors move faster, cover more ground, and are mostly immune to CC and has CC that blows past immunities of many classes/builds. I have an 80 of every class, and by far warrior is the easiest to play and win on in WvW. Now does he have the usefulness in every fight or scenario as some of the other classes, no, he doesn’t. But for what we have, we don’t give up much at all.

Aw man.. My Hs is getting nerfed looks like i’ll have to find something to easy mode pve with.. I kid, but on a more serious note there really is no use complaining about it. I Main a thief and pvp with a engi. It’s and endless cycle of someone finding something to complain about being OP. I’ve been hit with the back ally nerf bat countless times just like most classes. If you really enjoy the class, take the hit and move on. Or just roll warrior since they so O….oh wait

I think that people complain so much because they expect to win every time they face an opponent expecting a perfect match up one class to the next. They fail to realize that this game has role, there is not a single best class, nor worst class. That each class of character has their own strengths and weaknesses.

They fail to realize that you cannot win every fight. Thus when they lose they come to the forums to cry nerf this or that NERRRFFFF!!! Ive played a warrior since day one, and im kitten good at it! Still, no matter how good, Ive learned vs all the other types of classes that there are times were you either take the risk and die trying, or to use a tactical withdraw to live another day.

I for one, relish fighting a class or someone that has an obvious advantage over me. If I am successful in defeating them, I am proud, that I was able to use skill and tact, to defeat them! Sadly, we have so many in todays world, that want easy, one shot wins, hand them everything.

I almost feel like yoda saying this, but you must learn your opponent and how to fight them, if you are a ranger, you do not fight a warrior up close.

Seriously though.. nerf thieves… bahahahahahahahhaah!!! :P