Guild Wars 2

I am not a warrior though I do understand them having played them in pvp. That is fair warning. Likewise, this could explode which is not the intention but rather to put out a hypothesis and get intelligent feedback.

Hypothesis on How Balance Should Work: In any game the key for balance is creating counterbalance. Key performance features (say melee damage, condition damage, healing, armor, toughness, ability to evade, ability to engage, range, crowd control etc) should be spread across the classes in terms of best performance.

A. 2 classes should be at top.
B. 4 classes should be middle of the pack
C. 2 classes should be at the bottom (their Achilles’ heel).

You can always have a class that is basically completely middle of the class. However, for every ability where you are in the top 2, there should be a corresponding weakness (how opponents should exploit you).

Hypothesis on How Warriors Actually Work: Warriors face a lack of key performance areas where they are at the bottom but have far too many where they are at the top. It certainly is not balanced. Warriors have some of the highest offense and defense abilities without equally compelling areas where they are weak.

Do this exercise fairly below, then lets talk about balance.

1) What are the key performance factors of the game? Armor, Conditions, Cleaning Conditions etc. Remember to make these broad (of the game is the key).

2) Which of your list is the warrior in the top two or three?

3) Which of your list is the warrior in the bottom two or three?

4) Is it roughly balanced between areas where the warrior is at the top of the list in key performance areas and the bottom? (If not, then yes, there needs to be a nerf).

Wanting this to be more aha versus in your face, I will post my list towards the end of the conversation.

nothing you said made any sense and I read it. warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game. This is a profession that is meant to facetank and do high melee DPS because it is a warrior. Look up warrior in the dictionary and that is the definition of a warrior. There is nothing wrong with warriors they are exactly how they should be there is a bunch of problems with the other professions ranger is one of them. How about you guys accept the fact that warriors are warriors and ask ANET to fix your other classes. And stop making useless threads asking for anet to nerf warriors because your class is broken and is underpowered.

Ok, perhaps it is a difficult read.

There are several areas you mentioned where warriors are (and should be) top tier.

Where is the “counterbalance” areas where warriors are weak? (The areas where warriors are at the bottom 2 of classes)

On whole, do you have more areas where you are top tier versus where you are bottom tier?

In most games, the warrior would not have the heaviest armor. The highest DPS would be from medium armor characters. Likewise, high healing characters tend to do poor damage.

You don’t have to follow that stereotype, but the concept behind it is necessary. You have to be strong in some areas and weak in others.

So to simplify:

1. What areas matter in the game?
2. Where is the Warrior in the Top 2 of Classes?
3. Where is the Warrior in the Bottom 2 of Classes?
4. What is the net balance?

Make sense. My goal is not to tell you are overpowered. It is to help show you that if you accept the idea of counterbalance and run this little exercise you will have a very hard time saying that the warrior nets out right. You will have a hard time saying that for each major area where you are Top 2, there is an equal area of importance where you are bottom 2.

Try it.

You don’t just want power creep or the need to readjust all PvE which is why nerfing is important.

Warriors are actually ok and other classes need some help. Imo what makes warrior so strong. Dolyak singet and balanced stance. With these two you can have very high stability upkeep. Pretty much no other class can do this and they suffer because of it. CC needs diminishing returns or other classes need more stability.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Warriors are actually ok and other classes need some help. Imo what makes warrior so strong. Dolyak singet and balanced stance. With these two you can have very high stability upkeep. Pretty much no other class can do this and they suffer because of it. CC needs diminishing returns or other classes need more stability.

Please dont be below average iq lvl.Warriors need stability because they are melee class and need constant time hugging the target while other classes spam their damage form range .Without stability you can keep 100% the warrior away from you and dps him down while he can’t even touch the target with his melee skills.Next time use your brain before you post please.No other class needs that much upclose uptime besides guardian and they are a support class with very high stability§/immunity uptime too.

You basicly want warriors to have stability on par with anyone else but without the teleports stealth ranged and so on.Please

Bottom.
1. Ranged abilities.

2. Evasion, or evasive maneuvering. Blinks, stealth’s, teleports.

3. AOEs. outside of melee cleave of course.

4. Conditions damage. All of warriors weapons are power based including the ones that do have secondary condition effects. Except sword/impale

5. Tells or telegraphed skills if you can count this as a con almost all of warriors skill have huge tells even the ones that ANET says that dont.

6. Burst skills (profession mechanic) need to be charged to use these skill do not have actucal cool downs. (they do have CDs but that doesn’t mean you can use the skill) the cool downs are based on refil of adrinaline thus there are not skills that are on demand. A warrior can not just use one of these skills then expect to use it again when a cool down is up.

7. Gap closers. The only gap closers warriors have are 1 sword leep 2 on a GS and a utility. Considering this profession needs to close gaps to do melee damage this hurts them.

8. Combination of Gap closing and CC and tells with slow animations and long cast times. Warriors need to close gaps, then land CC, then the target needs to be disabled in order to do damage. Thus warriors are extremely susceptible to kiting.

9. Insta cast skills. very very little of warriors skills are insta cast they all have cast times with obvious tells.

10. Given all of these short coming to get beat by a warrior means you are not playing your profession skillfully.

11. Melee skills that root the warrior in place. Counter intuitive.

12. No clones, no pets. No elite skills that give them minions etc.

13 Ability to get the protection boon or any other boons besides, might, fury, and swiftness.

14. Anything i missed let me know.

15. the thief skill that they steal from us is better than our actual skill.

Bombsaway.7198:

I am not a warrior though I do understand them having played them in pvp. That is fair warning. Likewise, this could explode which is not the intention but rather to put out a hypothesis and get intelligent feedback.

Hypothesis on How Balance Should Work: In any game the key for balance is creating counterbalance. Key performance features (say melee damage, condition damage, healing, armor, toughness, ability to evade, ability to engage, range, crowd control etc) should be spread across the classes in terms of best performance.

A. 2 classes should be at top.
B. 4 classes should be middle of the pack
C. 2 classes should be at the bottom (their Achilles’ heel).

You can always have a class that is basically completely middle of the class. However, for every ability where you are in the top 2, there should be a corresponding weakness (how opponents should exploit you).

Hypothesis on How Warriors Actually Work: Warriors face a lack of key performance areas where they are at the bottom but have far too many where they are at the top. It certainly is not balanced. Warriors have some of the highest offense and defense abilities without equally compelling areas where they are weak.

Do this exercise fairly below, then lets talk about balance.

1) What are the key performance factors of the game? Armor, Conditions, Cleaning Conditions etc. Remember to make these broad (of the game is the key).

2) Which of your list is the warrior in the top two or three?

3) Which of your list is the warrior in the bottom two or three?

4) Is it roughly balanced between areas where the warrior is at the top of the list in key performance areas and the bottom? (If not, then yes, there needs to be a nerf).

Wanting this to be more aha versus in your face, I will post my list towards the end of the conversation.

The problem also comes when lack of a certain perk can completely negate something.

Warriors at first were meant to have the weakest condition cleansing, ranged capability and not-so-great sustain, while having 1 of the following above average: resistance to physical damage, damage, cc. Other than that, their design made them easy to avoid. You could make a hybrid who could do 2 of those things (like soaking up a good deal of damage while doing decent damage at the same time)

This made them pretty weak already. In the end, most viable warrior builds were GC ones, and still were outshone by other classes. When the condition meta spread over, and meta builds started to be attrition based, warriors became useless: they were forced to be in melee, where AoE condition spam was avoidable. That meant warriors were shoved out of the meta. Not only they weren’t able to whitstand attrition (which could be played around in one way or another), but now they melted in seconds. This brought to their overbuff.

All this by saying: being really good at something doesn’t mean you are useful. You might not be able to do anything because of your weakness.

1) Everything Bombsaway said is true about each class requiring counter pros and cons. You can’t have a class excel at nearly everything and only have 1-2 weaknesses.

2) The issue, I think, is that the strengths of Warrior are very easy to see, while the weaknesses are more complex, things that aren’t seen on paper but only in practice. At first glance, Warriors have heavy armor, lost of damage mitigation skills, high damage skills, lots of boon sharing, a great passive heal, and a large variety of weapons. However, they also have weaknesses, some of which Warlord mentioned above. Things like telegraphed animations, the need to remain in melee range, the importance of stability vs the access to it, limited condition build options, defensive boon access, etc.

Warlord.9074:

Bottom.
1. Ranged abilities.

2. Evasion, or evasive maneuvering. Blinks, stealth’s, teleports.

3. AOEs. outside of melee cleave of course.

4. Conditions damage. All of warriors weapons are power based including the ones that do have secondary condition effects. Except sword/impale

5. Tells or telegraphed skills if you can count this as a con almost all of warriors skill have huge tells even the ones that ANET says that dont.

6. Burst skills (profession mechanic) need to be charged to use these skill do not have actucal cool downs. (they do have CDs but that doesn’t mean you can use the skill) the cool downs are based on refil of adrinaline thus there are not skills that are on demand. A warrior can not just use one of these skills then expect to use it again when a cool down is up.

7. Gap closers. The only gap closers warriors have are 1 sword leep 2 on a GS and a utility. Considering this profession needs to close gaps to do melee damage this hurts them.

8. Combination of Gap closing and CC and tells with slow animations and long cast times. Warriors need to close gaps, then land CC, then the target needs to be disabled in order to do damage. Thus warriors are extremely susceptible to kiting.

9. Insta cast skills. very very little of warriors skills are insta cast they all have cast times with obvious tells.

10. Given all of these short coming to get beat by a warrior means you are not playing your profession skillfully.

11. Melee skills that root the warrior in place. Counter intuitive.

12. No clones, no pets. No elite skills that give them minions etc.

13 Ability to get the protection boon or any other boons besides, might, fury, and swiftness.

14. Anything i missed let me know.

15. the thief skill that they steal from us is better than our actual skill.

couldn’t word it better then him and I used a wall of words X D.

Seras.5702:

1) Everything Bombsaway said is true about each class requiring counter pros and cons. You can’t have a class excel at nearly everything and only have 1-2 weaknesses.

2) The issue, I think, is that the strengths of Warrior are very easy to see, while the weaknesses are more complex, things that aren’t seen on paper but only in practice. At first glance, Warriors have heavy armor, lost of damage mitigation skills, high damage skills, lots of boon sharing, a great passive heal, and a large variety of weapons. However, they also have weaknesses, some of which Warlord mentioned above. Things like telegraphed animations, the need to remain in melee range, the importance of stability vs the access to it, limited condition build options, defensive boon access, etc.

Another problem is: some builds are fine, some are not.

Example: this build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjkOxwJPqQMxBAzjfAqoLjkYSfwOA-ToAg0CnIyRFkLITOSds6MEZJC

Has some clear disadvantages. No armor, really low condi removal (only berserker stance, this means against condi dealers it’s those 8 seconds or death), requires some time to unlock its full potential (100% adrenaline, 20+ might stacks). Might can be stolen.

On the other hand, deals enormous DPS. You can top 3k aa on glassy opponents.

I think this build is not OP, it has clear weaknesses, while being decent.

The hambow build, instead, is not as good at dealing damage, but has much better staying power and much more CC, making it useful in every situation.

About what you said about the weaknesses, it might be of interest the fact that with the build I linked I can kill hambows easily. My damage is high enough I can outlast them, if they don’t get the jump on me while I don’t have stability and/or I’m at half health.
That might mean that hambow’s weakness is finding someone doing something better than them. But it’s still a long shot. And even then, no matter the situation those builds perform better than others.

Warlord.9074:

Bottom.
1. Ranged abilities.

2. Evasion, or evasive maneuvering. Blinks, stealth’s, teleports.

3. AOEs. outside of melee cleave of course.

4. Conditions damage. All of warriors weapons are power based including the ones that do have secondary condition effects. Except sword/impale

5. Tells or telegraphed skills if you can count this as a con almost all of warriors skill have huge tells even the ones that ANET says that dont.

6. Burst skills (profession mechanic) need to be charged to use these skill do not have actucal cool downs. (they do have CDs but that doesn’t mean you can use the skill) the cool downs are based on refil of adrinaline thus there are not skills that are on demand. A warrior can not just use one of these skills then expect to use it again when a cool down is up.

7. Gap closers. The only gap closers warriors have are 1 sword leep 2 on a GS and a utility. Considering this profession needs to close gaps to do melee damage this hurts them.

8. Combination of Gap closing and CC and tells with slow animations and long cast times. Warriors need to close gaps, then land CC, then the target needs to be disabled in order to do damage. Thus warriors are extremely susceptible to kiting.

9. Insta cast skills. very very little of warriors skills are insta cast they all have cast times with obvious tells.

10. Given all of these short coming to get beat by a warrior means you are not playing your profession skillfully.

11. Melee skills that root the warrior in place. Counter intuitive.

12. No clones, no pets. No elite skills that give them minions etc.

13 Ability to get the protection boon or any other boons besides, might, fury, and swiftness.

14. Anything i missed let me know.

15. the thief skill that they steal from us is better than our actual skill.

Im kinda bored… Seriously you should play other classes or atleast read some of the forums.

1. 16k crits with rifle Kill Shot…
2. I have never seen a warrior facetank anything
3. check other classes range weapon sets are ST and aoe… check LB again
4. Smoke crack much?? bleeds, torment, fire… S/S+LB
5. IMO this is more about warriors playing Norns
6. Thief uses initiative and steal has a CD… nother wishlist item
7. Bullrush, GS whirl, immobilizes, cripples… Tremor
8. Really dont see how this is any different than other classes using melee
9. Shouts, Stances = no cast, signets (outside of leather) lowest cast… GTFO
10. after getting through the 2x armor and hp?? I guess
11. You mean channel skills? What?
12. Rangers have complained about pet AI since when?? Mesmer clone AI is getting worse… You sure this isn’t a strength?
14. No moa morph for that instawin button that warriors apparently need…

Bombsaway.7198:

You don’t just want power creep or the need to readjust all PvE which is why nerfing is important.

warriors aren’t over powered bombs it’s true they excel at a lot of things but what about minions we have none. support our banners have a very limited range and pointless.

minions
lots of our stronger attacks are VERY telegraphed as well as prone to being interrupted.
we have very little aoe. combustive shot earthshaker arching arrow.
our support is very meager while banners are very strong they constantly refresh every 3/4 seconds and if you are pulled away from them their effect ends.

a common point brought up is warriors have loads of sustain adrenal health cleansing ire sig of healing. which is more then a fully cleric guard apparently unfortunately people don’t realize how bad the combination they listed really is for sustain.

cleansing ire heal condtions grants adrenaline when your hit.
adrenal healths gives you health with more adrenaline you have.
sig of healing gives loads of healing over time.

sounds rather impressive until you realize a few things.

cleansing ire actually can work against adrenal health you are rewarded for using you adrenaline which in turns means no bonus heal if you do. as well as if you want to keep the bonus heal your locked out of all your burst skills.

even with good logic keep in mind the warriors only have this major sustain to keep them going they lack any reliable aegis any reliable protection 1 blind skill on a longbow with a rather large cd.

so what happens if you were to infact remove this sustain.

warriors would be pointless they would die so quickly.

so does this sustain really go into op terriorty answer is NO!.

posion counters both adrenal health and counters sig of healing. cleansing ire can cure it but causes a reset on adrenaline weakening adrenal heal. even this is easier for some builds then others as a few burst skills are very telegraphed.

what is so punishing about said build is your punished heavily if you don’t take it down quickly. longer you take more he heals more he heals more likely he’ll win.

simply put you want to burst them down.

Dekk.3459:

Warlord.9074:

Bottom.

Im kinda bored… Seriously you should play other classes or atleast read some of the forums.

1. 16k crits with rifle Kill Shot…
2. I have never seen a warrior facetank anything
3. check other classes range weapon sets are ST and aoe… check LB again
4. Smoke crack much?? bleeds, torment, fire… S/S+LB
5. IMO this is more about warriors playing Norns
6. Thief uses initiative and steal has a CD… nother wishlist item
7. Bullrush, GS whirl, immobilizes, cripples… Tremor
8. Really dont see how this is any different than other classes using melee
9. Shouts, Stances = no cast, signets (outside of leather) lowest cast… GTFO
10. after getting through the 2x armor and hp?? I guess
11. You mean channel skills? What?
12. Rangers have complained about pet AI since when?? Mesmer clone AI is getting worse… You sure this isn’t a strength?
14. No moa morph for that instawin button that warriors apparently need…

kill shot is obvious and anyone paying attention will likely avoid or interrupt it if you try to tank it your fault.

warriors lack of aoe well we literally will have at most 3 aoe if you go with long bow and hammer. ingeneral it’s either 1 or none. (2 of which are burst skills so can not be used back to back with out use of adrenaline regain utls all of which have long cds no class has to do that if they have access)

steal has a cd yes so does every burst skill. theif uses inniative and can easily spam where a warrior can not as well thieves also have innitiave regain and a fair amount of it. bonus include but not limited too bonus regain while stealthed more by default and more by stealing.

s+s/lb great condition set up but not exactly leaps beyond most everyone else except maybe gaurdians what I hear.

necro posion burn bleed fear (also damages you if traited) posion
theif
torment bleed posion torment
engi
bleed burn posion confusion on 1 weapon set
ele dd ele bleeds and burns.

k so warrior has access to bleeds burn torment no problem here.

bulls rush tremor cripple immobile. ok so the warrior has good cc this is not a real major problem.

signet of healing has a cast time of over a second can be interrupted easily and signet of rage which is extremely good also has a large cast time. the only other signets of note are signet of the dolyak which gives 6 seconds of stability and sig of staminia which cures all conditions. something which other professions also have.

engi has 409 and can turn conditions into buffs
necro has the ability to remove and heal with a much stronger heal per condition as well as send them too you
theif heals all bleeds posion and burn when it stealth shadows embrace heals another condition ever 3 seconds your stealthed (shadows refuges = 12 seconds of stealth.

stances have no cast time but have large cds and last less then 10 seconds.

warrior does not have 2x the armor and hp unless you’ve paid no attention to vitality or toughness which is well your fault.

list of warriors channel skills
kill shot volley flurry 100 blades

it’s definitely not a strength

btw I run a necro theif engi and starting on a ele.

Bombsaway.7198:

Do this exercise fairly below, then lets talk about balance.

Do the same for the class(es) you play.

Come back and realize you are still biased even if play all 8 classes like I do. /Aha moment.

Dekk.3459:

Im kinda bored… Seriously you should play other classes or atleast read some of the forums.

1. 16k crits with rifle Kill Shot…
2. I have never seen a warrior facetank anything
3. check other classes range weapon sets are ST and aoe… check LB again
4. Smoke crack much?? bleeds, torment, fire… S/S+LB
5. IMO this is more about warriors playing Norns
6. Thief uses initiative and steal has a CD… nother wishlist item
7. Bullrush, GS whirl, immobilizes, cripples… Tremor
8. Really dont see how this is any different than other classes using melee
9. Shouts, Stances = no cast, signets (outside of leather) lowest cast… GTFO
10. after getting through the 2x armor and hp?? I guess
11. You mean channel skills? What?
12. Rangers have complained about pet AI since when?? Mesmer clone AI is getting worse… You sure this isn’t a strength?
14. No moa morph for that instawin button that warriors apparently need…

1. Kill shot see #6 besides kill under prefect/lucky scenario do any of warriors other ranged abilities outshine any other profession.

2. Warrior can face tank PVE. Warrior is high risk low reward there are not many get out jail free cards with this profession unless its built for mobility. The only builds like that are builds that use GS and we know how bad GS is in PVP.

3. Long bow has 3 aoes and those are the only 3 aoes the profession has. I am fairly certain having only 3 aoes 1 of them being a burst skill that they can’t use when ever they want so lets say 2.5 aoes puts them far below other professions in AOE.

4. All of the skills that do bleeding damage are power based skills with the exception of pin down. The only decent burning skill they have is F1 burst on the bow. The other fire skill is only 1 sec of fire damage and is a power based skill. Yes they have torment on the sword which is a power weapon. Being only able to apply 95% of their condition damage as bleeding damage makes them a weak condi class. They have no poison or chill. Without especially having poison it puts them below theifs, necros, rangers and engineers as condi classes which would be bottom of the list all of those other professions can deal conditions better than a warrior.

5. Asura warriors also suffer from the obvious tells of hammers, maces particularity and bows. Kill shot your #1 argument is the most telegraphed skill in the game.

6. Thiefs steal has a cool down yes it is very similar, however you can trait stealing to actually do useful things like give you boons, it also can have a 1200 range as a gap closer and it gives you skills that can steath you and heal you etc. OP much? Burst skills just do 1 thing and that is damage or CC that is it. Thiefs F1 > Warriors burst skill. No question.

7. Immobilize, cripple, and tremor are not gap closers they are CC big difference.

8. Heartseeker Heart Seeker hearseeker? Big difference. Warrior has nothing like that and a thief doesn’t need to land cc to do that over and over. Guardians have whiling blades that actually pull the target to them again other classes can pull targets they don’t need to chase. Big difference. I would hardly consider DD ele as melee anything 600 range is not melee.

9. Signets have cast times, shouts and stances do not. Those are utilities though they are not skills.

10. LTP thats all I got to say.

11. 100 blades, kill shot, staggering blow. Some of the most know skills warrior can not move while channeling them. which means if you get eatin by 100 blades you are a bad player because all you have to do is move.

12. No thiefs guild, no ranger pets, no necro pets, no spirit weapons, no clones, no turrets, no elementals. Come to think about it every profession can summon some mobs or some AI to help them but warriors.

13. You don’t know anything about warriors and obviously you dont play one.

@Warlord

You seriously need to take a look at other classes. Weapon skills have cast times, telegraph complaints or not. Warrior weapon skills are lower than most hence why some are being increased. That would actually be balance.

I’m not going through the whole list again… compare guardian signets to warrior = 1/3 cast time, those are the heavy classes. Warriors can stack bleeds more easily than many classes + burn + torment, hardest hitting conditions.

2 & 10 – … you said it

7 – opposed to GS runners and -70% condition duration…

Burst skills cannot be traited?? Were talking adrenaline… Just WOW

So out of the 8 classes warrior places where (1-8) for these ‘issues’?

Warlord.9074:

3. Long bow has 3 aoes and those are the only 3 aoes the profession has. I am fairly certain having only 3 aoes 1 of them being a burst skill that they can’t use when ever they want so lets say 2.5 aoes puts them far below other professions in AOE.

You should try hammer out sometime. its the best aoe dmg + aoe cc weapon in the game.

Players like you are the reason we can’t have proper class balance discussions on these forums.

Artaz.3819:

Bombsaway.7198:

Do this exercise fairly below, then lets talk about balance.

Do the same for the class(es) you play.

Come back and realize you are still biased even if play all 8 classes like I do. /Aha moment.

Absolutely I’m bias. Every gamer who has a main is. That is the reason I would far rather put the model out and judge that which I love versus that which I am worried is a bit unbalanced. That should be first done by the warrior community.

Overall, and correct me if this is a perception, I would say that the warrior has some areas it is clearly top 2 in. At the beginning of the game, it had some areas it was rather poor in (condition removal) but it was so bad that it was fatal. Made sense to buff it. However, what are the current areas that the warrior is worst in class?

When you say no minions, you miss the point. Minions serve what broader purpose (ranged dps, damage mitigation by having another target, melee power, melee condition etc)?

Keep it broad. You have a handful of key factors for offense, defense and utility.

For the warrior, I get people wanting to get in the weeds ability by ability but I think the broad theme is you have great offense and great defense. Typically, it is either or.
You weakness in ranged is less of a weakness given other defensive abilities you have (ability to engage is top 2 or maybe 3) and ability to avoid cc is high as well.

I thank the posters who mentioned how warriors had some very good weaknesses to counter their very good strengths but they were so detrimental that the class became underplayed. Ok, they needed fixed. But now, you need to either tone down a few of the top tier abilities or move the weaknesses that DID have to be adjusted back to being the “Achilles’ Heel” again. I would like to think that conditions would be the bane of a warrior. That seemed to be the original design. It just went too far.

Any class is killable, but what class in particular gives warriors fits? For an engineer, you hate to see a necromancer.

Where is the counterbalance? If you have a little bit of everything, then everything should be midrange.

I play an engineer (imagine given my name). I would say engineers are pretty good at most things. We probably are bottom 2 at CC avoidance (which includes stability) and condition removal (self v group) and probably top 2 in condition based damage (given how many conditions we can drop) and ranged damage. So fairly even. Ranger (my second) faces not doing enough damage before melee engages while having some of the lowest defensive abilities (from condition removal to cc management especially stability/escapes). Very few AE options but likely on the low end of mid range v the bottom. One area where it would be top is ability to evade actively (of course most rangers who wanted range would say but that is just so odd for this class). Ranged damage is mediocre really if you consider that spells that have similar range often do more.

The engineer would probably net +1 (one more key metric we are top 2 v bottom 2). We likely need a second weakness.

Ranger I scored at -3. We probably need help on defense (condition removal and stability) to be mid-range and need to be made top tier on ranged dps (single target).

Played ranger too since start. Now a good ranger can be effective and a bad engineer is not at all slightly overpowered. On whole though. . . in relative terms. . . .

dimyzuka.7051:

Warlord.9074:

3. Long bow has 3 aoes and those are the only 3 aoes the profession has. I am fairly certain having only 3 aoes 1 of them being a burst skill that they can’t use when ever they want so lets say 2.5 aoes puts them far below other professions in AOE.

You should try hammer out sometime. its the best aoe dmg + aoe cc weapon in the game.

Players like you are the reason we can’t have proper class balance discussions on these forums.

Are you trolling me? Hammer has 2 aoes sort of one is a cripple that doesn’t do damage. And Leg specialist was nerfed to have an ICD of 10 sec so no more AOE immobilize. Stagering blow is considered a cleve skill not an aoe.

Earth shaker used to do decent damage but was nerfed and no more 50% crit chance when an enemy is stunned as the trait was moved. So um considering the only decent AOE is the burst skill this is a terrible weapon for anything but the #1 cleve skill and the single target back breaker which does decent damage.

Warth shaker is nothing compared to a ranged AOE of other professions. Infact the 2 sec stun is nothing compared to a ranger frost trap, a ele chill field or a engineer glue shot as far as cc is concearned it is weak compared to what other professions can do if played properly.

Bombsaway.7198:

Where is the counterbalance? If you have a little bit of everything, then everything should be midrange.

Everything on a warrior really isn’t mid range though. They are good at CC, defense and melee cleave damage mobility, and decent sustainability. Everything else is subpar. If you want to kill a warrior learn how to kite best advice and learn to dodge.. Unless you are packing enough melee damage and defense to go nose to nose with one.

Rangers are just in a really bad spot vs any class. But a BM bunker condi Ranger can defiantly take a warrior in 1v1.

Issue with most classes vs warriors is they are not on the right builds to deal with them then they get stomped and come to the form to complain about it, so because this class or any class is not built and traited and geared right to fight a warrior, then warrior musty be nerfed so other people can play whatever build they want but then warriors cant.

This warlord.

“warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game”

So that’s your justification for warriors being extremely tanky whilst being able to put out great damage.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s more of a statement, not really a reason. That’s like me saying, Thieves should be able to kill anyone they want to and get away every time because they’re thieves.,

phaeris.7604:

This warlord.

“warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game”

So that’s your justification for warriors being extremely tanky whilst being able to put out great damage.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s more of a statement, not really a reason. That’s like me saying, Thieves should be able to kill anyone they want to and get away every time because they’re thieves.,

What bubble No where in my statement did I say anything about killing anyone. You are making a false analogy. Your analogy is warriors can kill anyone because they are warriors, and thiefs can kill anyone because they are thief’s is asinine to say the least. I would never say anything like that because it simply isn’t true and since thats not what I said why would you even respond that way?

So let me break this down for you warriors specialize in melee DPS so that is what they are good at. Would it make since for a class that specialized in melee DPS to be good at ranged AOE? no of course not. That is not warriors strong personality trait. Would it make since for a heavy armor class to not be able to take damage of course not. Warriors can take damage and deal good melee damage becasue that is what they are designed to do. They are warriors.

Thiefs on the other hand are medium armor class that specialize in evasion and burst damage. Two totally difference concepts you can not compare one to the other. And by the way thiefs can do way more melee burst damage than warriors.

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

Bombsaway, I understand what you’re trying to do / say but it just doesn’t work. Your “key elements” to how characters work in this game is just too black & white. The complexities of GW2 combat are just way too in-depth to label things like that. From the options you’ve given, you could make it sound like a mesmer is absolutely terrible except for say ….. condition damage.

Now I know this is going to sound like the opposite of what I just said, but I once described characters based around a pyramid of:-

damage a character can produce / damage a character can mitigate with class mechanics / healing per second

Now, lets say you could somehow attach a figure to each one of those in some weird “maths” equation, and imagine that “damage a character can mitigate with class mechanics” x “healing per second” = total survivability. The warrior is no where near the top.

Healing signet for example, is the highest heal in the game per second at 392 base heal per second. Mesmer has Ether Fest which providing is used with 3 illusions (basically always) has a heal rate of 356 per second (it’s on a 20 second cooldown).

Now, the warrior has “high armor” which basically means jack kitten. The mesmer on the hand has so many tricks up his sleeve, the damage mitigation is enormous. Without any clones / illusions getting in the way and doing damage while I can run around as a mesmer, I have two skills on a 30 second cooldown and 40 second cooldown which provide 4 seconds of stealth each. That’s 8 seconds, of a warrior helplessly attacking clones, while I run around and do whatever the hell I want while my heal comes off cooldown, essentially making the cooldown of the skill 12 seconds as I was stealthed for 8, and providing I am not kittened I shouldn’t be taking damage while stealthed. Now if you want to calculate things in as black & white as you did, that makes Etherfest heal for 623 HP/s out of seconds that I’m actually there as a visible target.

Now, let’s add do it, clones, which in a hurry can be hard to distinguish between the real mesmer, and phantasms who are dealing auto damage to the warrior whether or not the mesmer is stealth, CCed or whatever. Then let’s add to that the instant teleport which can be treated for a 24 second cooldown. Then let’s add to that the evade on sword#2.

That is SO much damage mitigation there to class mechanics, it makes the mesmer’s survivability in a 1 to 1 stand off ENORMOUSLY larger than a warriors no matter what build he’s running. It’s why I’ve recently made the switch (I’ve mained a warrior since launch) Yeah, warriors can run away, but what difference does that make in WvW or PvP. When you’re capping points, you need to be there, not running away. I have solo’d a camp as mesmer which actually had a decently built and played warrior defending it. There is no way on earth my warrior would be able to do that, and I’ve only been playing my mesmer for 3 days (levelled him months ago).

I saw in your earlier post you dismissed someone’s message on Necro having minions, but I think you’re too biased to actually see the point. As a warrior, you have NOTHING but you’re own body to fight with and mitigate damage with. There is no protection, no aegis, almost no blinds, no stealth and nothing summoned that does damage/CC automatically and kitten right deserves the HP regen of healing signet and the little mobility they have. I have melted each and every warrior I’ve come accross over the last 3 nights, and I honestly feel bad, I feel like I’m cheating, because I know how it was for me when I was on the other side of the fence.

Bombsaway.7198:

You don’t just want power creep or the need to readjust all PvE which is why nerfing is important.

warriors weakness is obvious animations seriously some of them are painful you have to be afk to be hit with a 100 blades or someone is not paying enough attention.
minions comment you made applies for the warrior.

for damage mitigation we got endure pain and the new heal skill. that’s literally it other then our armor which ever class has some of. other then that closest thing to damage mitigation would be the warriors sustain from heal sig adrenal health. which isn’t that great of mitigation as it takes time to heal off the damage which is not always the best way to do thing

by comparison the guardian has access to
aegis protection regen skills. I’d love to have protection on my warrior.

btw bombs ik what your trying to do but no one is going to say oh wow you’ve made a point we never saw before you’ve opened our eyes warriors are in deed in dire need of a nerf. most of us are going to be of the mind omg not another one it happens all the time and this is annoying as hell. if you want advice on how to beat a warrior that good that’s one thing but your not going to convince anyone that the main needs a nerf.

hell lets be honest if you looked at the most recent info for the next balance patch warriors are taking at best a minor hit.

sig of healing is getting nerfed while the active is being buffed. (they also announced lots of nerfs to posion and other sustain so it’s likely not that major of a nerf overall.)

pindown
no respectable condtion warrior is going to be put at a major disadvantage over this.

the only reason for the sig nerf is likely the other nerfs as well as to encourage the use of the active. keep in mind that this will not make anyone happy with the exception of likely warriors if my sig heals enough it’s really a buff not a nerf. (they said so in their own post we want to make it so people want to use the active)

will the warrior see nerfs in the upcoming updates likely it will but i doubt it’s going to be on the scale that so many want.

honestly it should be less nerf the warrior instead of buff such and such.

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

Here’s an interesting concept. Even if Warrior isn’t absolute best in all those areas listed, he’s usually near the best. He has all of his fundamental needs covered, and they removed his original weakness, to shoehorn him into to condi meta. All the other classes in the game have thier strengths paired with equally promenent weaknesses. Warrior’s managed to avert this by simply being “very good” at all the fundaments of combat in the game. That coupled with their ease of use has rendered Warrior as the ideal pick across all modes of play this game has to offer.
To summerize: Warrior is viewed as OP, because it’s the only class in the game that has all of its bases covered (and well covered no less). Every other class has some glaring weakness.

im really thinking of rolling a warrior since so many people claim they are not op, i feel frustrated with my guardians low hp and pathetic mobility.

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

^this.

Warrior can excel in many aspects, but he always has to give up others. People just see warriors using this and that and think all warriors can use it all at all times in every build, hence the 30/30/30/30/30 5 weaponswap warrior jokes. We seriously only have 3 utility slots, not 10.

A warrior is strong atm, I don’t deny it. But he is far from overpowered. People often complain about healing signet + adrenal health sustain. But remember this is our ONLY form of sustain. If you nerf it further, you only need 26% poison uptime to make it heal less/s than the healing surge. And burst heals > regen heals by far. So healing singet definitely will be fine after the coming nerf.

We do have high armor, but no protection. Protection cuts the damage before armor, making you armor way more valuable. So warriors need to reach 4k+ armor to be compared with dmg reduction against a guardian with 3k and protection.

The only thing I agree on is impale, the nature of this skill makes it too strong. Torment is a real strong condition and because it only applies 1 stack at the time it is hard to clean off. Not even mentioning you can keep it permanently up.

Another thing people often complain about is our mobility. The ONLY way to outrun 95% of the builds out there is by running sword/x – greatsword AND bullscharge. So you lose a utility slot on top of it. This build loses a lot of offensive power to reach this mobility. Most people only run greatsword or only sword and many classes can keep up with that.

Our damage got nerfed 4 patches in a row already and will be again in the 5th by nerfing crit damage. This will hit the semi tank (knight+ zerker mixers) the hardest. And most warriors in WvW run that. Conditions are still a warriors greatest weakness, stack chill and cripple with the +40% condi duration food and the warrior will be useless and lose A LOT of its damage, not even mentioning weakness cutting our damage a lot aswel.

Is warrior OP? No most definitely not. Is the skill level in this game worrying low? Yes unfortunately it is. A warrior is a prime example of that. People still manage to get hit by easy to spot skills. Which a warrior is full of. Learn the warrior and learn to counter him.

ps.: people complaining about killshot? Really? kitten othing you mention after that can be taken seriously.

MiLkZz.4789:

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

^this.

Warrior can excel in many aspects, but he always has to give up others. People just see warriors using this and that and think all warriors can use it all at all times in every build, hence the 30/30/30/30/30 5 weaponswap warrior jokes. We seriously only have 3 utility slots, not 10.

A warrior is strong atm, I don’t deny it. But he is far from overpowered. People often complain about healing signet + adrenal health sustain. But remember this is our ONLY form of sustain. If you nerf it further, you only need 26% poison uptime to make it heal less/s than the healing surge. And burst heals > regen heals by far. So healing singet definitely will be fine after the coming nerf.

We do have high armor, but no protection. Protection cuts the damage before armor, making you armor way more valuable. So warriors need to reach 4k+ armor to be compared with dmg reduction against a guardian with 3k and protection.

The only thing I agree on is impale, the nature of this skill makes it too strong. Torment is a real strong condition and because it only applies 1 stack at the time it is hard to clean off. Not even mentioning you can keep it permanently up.

Another thing people often complain about is our mobility. The ONLY way to outrun 95% of the builds out there is by running sword/x – greatsword AND bullscharge. So you lose a utility slot on top of it. This build loses a lot of offensive power to reach this mobility. Most people only run greatsword or only sword and many classes can keep up with that.

Our damage got nerfed 4 patches in a row already and will be again in the 5th by nerfing crit damage. This will hit the semi tank (knight+ zerker mixers) the hardest. And most warriors in WvW run that. Conditions are still a warriors greatest weakness, stack chill and cripple with the +40% condi duration food and the warrior will be useless and lose A LOT of its damage, not even mentioning weakness cutting our damage a lot aswel.

Is warrior OP? No most definitely not. Is the skill level in this game worrying low? Yes unfortunately it is. A warrior is a prime example of that. People still manage to get hit by easy to spot skills. Which a warrior is full of. Learn the warrior and learn to counter him.

ps.: people complaining about killshot? Really? kitten othing you mention after that can be taken seriously.

agreed although I do like torment how do you keep it up full time I’ve yet to see or hear about that.

Bombsaway.7198:

Ok, perhaps it is a difficult read.

What a selfrighteous, smug remark. Failed miserably.

Go back to your toilet bin profession balance forum.

the Most telegraphed profession

almost not viable in a serious duel.

Dual.8953:

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

Here’s an interesting concept. Even if Warrior isn’t absolute best in all those areas listed, he’s usually near the best. He has all of his fundamental needs covered, and they removed his original weakness, to shoehorn him into to condi meta. All the other classes in the game have thier strengths paired with equally promenent weaknesses. Warrior’s managed to avert this by simply being “very good” at all the fundaments of combat in the game. That coupled with their ease of use has rendered Warrior as the ideal pick across all modes of play this game has to offer.
To summerize: Warrior is viewed as OP, because it’s the only class in the game that has all of its bases covered (and well covered no less). Every other class has some glaring weakness.

An ideal pick across all low-tier modes of play. Because yes – you will see warriors zerging or in bad/pug dungeon runs.
Ask top sPVP players what classes they play.
Ask top high-end PVE speed clear teams what classes they bring.

Warriors are POPULAR but by far not the best choice. As I’ve said – you can’t specialize.

It’s not the class’ fault that players don’t want to put in the effort to specialize with one of the other classes. I think the other classes need to be tweaked to make them more fun and popular ( I’m considering visuals/ armor/ gameplay and so on).

A warrior’s weakness ( except for kiting and mesmers ) is the fact that he’ll never be THE BEST at whatever he’s doing.

Simple reasons

1. Not warrior players hate warriors
2. Not warrior players want warriors to be a free kill

“A warrior’s weakness ( except for kiting and mesmers ) is the fact that he’ll never be THE BEST at whatever he’s doing.”

It’s called hammer. The most amount of hard and soft CC in game on one weapon that doesn’t require you to touch/use any of your utilities. No other profession weapon can do what hammer does. cleave-cleave weaken-AoE cripple-PbAoE knock back-heavy knock down-AoE stun.

So now that we have proven that statement completely wrong, shall we move on?

Let’s not mention movement either. Set a race from coral on arah P1 and out of all the professions see who gets to the crystal champs first over and over again..to make it fun, leave all the mobs there and we’ll consider them obstacles. In the tpvp format this makes warrior ideally suited to pushing their home. If it does well they can neutralise and maybe even capture..if it doesn’t, they can high tail it out of there and not give away the 5 points.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let’s not mention movement either. Set a race from coral on arah P1 and out of all the professions see who gets to the crystal champs first over and over again..to make it fun, leave all the mobs there and we’ll consider them obstacles. In the tpvp format this makes warrior ideally suited to pushing their home. If it does well they can neutralise and maybe even capture..if it doesn’t, they can high tail it out of there and not give away the 5 points.

This is GW2 or Formula 1?
Warrior is not the only class having access to swiftness and to be really that “fast” you have to bring GS and Sword with you which leave you without hammer of course and its very good CC.

My warrior is now 50+ so I really don’t care. I hope they don’t nerf warriors. That being said leveling him up has been a lolfest. Every skill unlock is Monty Hall with how good things are compared to other classes.

As an example do you know the hoops I have to jump through to get 10 stacks of bleeding and torment with my 80 mes?

Anyways keep on keeping on warriors unstoppable bowling balls of death

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

“A warrior’s weakness ( except for kiting and mesmers ) is the fact that he’ll never be THE BEST at whatever he’s doing.”

It’s called hammer. The most amount of hard and soft CC in game on one weapon that doesn’t require you to touch/use any of your utilities. No other profession weapon can do what hammer does. cleave-cleave weaken-AoE cripple-PbAoE knock back-heavy knock down-AoE stun.

So now that we have proven that statement completely wrong, shall we move on?

Let’s not mention movement either. Set a race from coral on arah P1 and out of all the professions see who gets to the crystal champs first over and over again..to make it fun, leave all the mobs there and we’ll consider them obstacles. In the tpvp format this makes warrior ideally suited to pushing their home. If it does well they can neutralise and maybe even capture..if it doesn’t, they can high tail it out of there and not give away the 5 points.

My statement – although I will admit in this particular case is wrong – stands true in all other situations posted above.

Also I’ve yet to see this strategy you mention being used – mind providing a video or something?

jihm.2315:

im really thinking of rolling a warrior since so many people claim they are not op, i feel frustrated with my guardians low hp and pathetic mobility.

Are you a PvE primary player or WvW primary player? In PvE, are you primarily going dungeons/grouping or are you solo roaming?

Because regardless of what is said on the forums, you would be mistaken to think Guardian is not also a wee-bit higher up as well but “base” health becomes the balancing excuse for all things Guardian so no one seems to complain much. Guess how many ways you can fix base health issues with a Guardian? Mobility issues with Guardian depends on your definition but they aren’t the worse of all classes on mobility either.

For sPvP, it depends on the format as well.

Well it wasn’t meant to be a smug remark just an honest one. It was more a mea culpa on not writing it elegantly. Oh well, forums can be hard to imagine intent. There is a confirmation bias of wanting to dislike the person coming on and saying “hey is your class balanced or not”. I get it.

Harper: the trouble I have with your list is that it is tied to damage roles only versus mitigation roles (defense). Just looking at damage, I don’t see the warrior as OP. You are good at everything, best at some things and that sort of makes sense. You still would be arguably in the positive territory of being at the top of some of the damage elements of the game to be fair. That is to be expected.

The problem is that you have so much more defensive ability than I would expect given the high damage and more access to more types of damage mitigation (stability, passive healing, armor, range closers that can be used to open up range and escape, etc).

Just look at the cues from other games. Lots of times the high damage dealer winds up being in the middle range of armor or having very poor healing or poor condition removal or being a bit more subject to CC.

You are supposed to be offensively strong. Got it.
Where is the defensive weakness? Please advise.

Warriors seem to have a bit more defense than I was expecting given their offensive strength. Agree? Disagree? Sort of on the fence?

@ Bombsaway: I completely understand your theory on strengths balancing weaknesses. However, I think what you’re after is an even 1:1 ratio and I don’t think that’s what Anet wants. I think you referred earlier to one class being +1 while another is -3 in the whole balancing aspect. What Anet may intend is for everyone to be similarly in the plus. Perhaps it’s not warrior that’s OP, but rather other classes need buffing to bring them in line. I wouldn’t want my characters to have glaring faults, but rather obstacles to overcome. In this sense, all professions should be stronger than they are weak.

@Seras Wouldn’t that lead to a lot of power creep? In PvP and WvW, another classes’ buff is effectively a nerf to the others. But in PvE, buffing classes would really force you to rebalance mob AI. Right?

That is why you need nerfs sometimes. It just beats the alternatives.

So, on another thread I laid out general ideas. The idea was that the warrior has some exceptional damage skills that could be made more risky. Take Hundred Blades, Whirlwind, Staggering Blow etc. While in use, they could debuff your defense. Now you just have to time them better. Other classes have something sort of similar. For example, a ranger has a great AE barrage. . . but you stand still for it.

it would not necessarily be a nerf because at the end of the day all your choices in gw2 are limited which means regaurdless of what you class can do there is only so much you can do. i.e. you only have 3 utl slots which really isn’t all that much to work with and you will realize that very quickly during the build process.

in fact I would favor buffing other profession vs nerfing warriors let me explain it really does not matter 99% of the time who is better as long as both can get the job done comparably well. infact this would encourage build diversity which is one thing the warrior does have and it’s a big plus. lets take condition warriors for instance most people will tell you that the best condtion user is the necro which well may be true.

however considering i can go into spvp and get 17 kills easily i really couldn’t care less if a necro can out condition me because enough to make dead is enough which the warrior has. are they areas that warrior is weak absolutely a lot of what you listed as damage mitigation is false. armor well warrior may have high armor but keep in mind we lack protection which is a major blow we may infact have more armor and more sustain but in the end it won’t break us even with other classes such as guardian.

necro has access to protection as well as that handy shroud on top of the ability to pump out weakness a lot easier then a warrior can. theif also can pump out weakness as well as stealth which simply put means you do a lot less damage to a theif then you’d expect as you get a high fumble rate.

you brought up mobility as part of damage mitigation. it’s obvious you’ve not had much experience with a warrior. we have 3 gap closers bulls charge sword 2 and gs 5. it’s increbily gimmicky and any warrior who actually has had enough experience will tell you that is down right bad play to waste 3 skills to try to run.

if the argument is that they can use said skills as a gap closer then well it’s what their intended for their intended to get the warrior in close so it can do it’s job (majority of warriors skills are melee range mind you.

it would be blantly a bad design to do it any other way.

Bombsaway.7198:

@Seras Wouldn’t that lead to a lot of power creep? In PvP and WvW, another classes’ buff is effectively a nerf to the others. But in PvE, buffing classes would really force you to rebalance mob AI. Right?

That is why you need nerfs sometimes. It just beats the alternatives.

So, on another thread I laid out general ideas. The idea was that the warrior has some exceptional damage skills that could be made more risky. Take Hundred Blades, Whirlwind, Staggering Blow etc. While in use, they could debuff your defense. Now you just have to time them better. Other classes have something sort of similar. For example, a ranger has a great AE barrage. . . but you stand still for it.

this is how the current warrior is the have loads of obvious tells and honestly a lot of people don’t like it.

100 blades roots you to the ground
kill shot is around 2 seconds of nothing but being obvious (also roots you to the ground)
combustion shot projectile is slow
several of the hammer skills have obvious tells as well as long recharge times.
skull crack lights up obvious obvious animation.

it’s hard to say that these are not well paid for just as your own quote. these are just some of the warrior obvious animations there is more usually at least 1 per weapon and 9 of 10 times it also happens to be the attack that everyone is so upset is op.
this is why so many of the warrior community is so annoyed when someone goes omg warrior op. i run a condition warrior personally there are people who say that condtions warriors are out right horrible and yet other will scream to the top of their lungs their op.

their people who will say 100 blades is up it can’t hit anything in pvp yet there some who scream it needs a nerf.

yeah it’s punishing for a newbie (what wouldn’t be) but at the same time if you learn the warrior class you can easily beat it it is extremely telegraphed. just a last night i was reading posts about lich form being so over powered to which a anet mob said it’s not op it’s got obvious tells and has a long recharge time.

i have played a warrior necro engi and theif working on a ele too now. the warrior is EASILY THE MOST TELEGRAPHED CLASS. or that i have yet played at least.

@Wildfang

Since you mentioned Ele… try that staff out and maybe reevaluate most telegraphed?

There are alot of weapon skills that root you in place… Pistol Whip, you want that thief following you around too? Just sounds like whining to me, we want we want… More Balance

Dekk.3459:

@Wildfang

Since you mentioned Ele… try that staff out and maybe reevaluate most telegraphed?

There are alot of weapon skills that root you in place… Pistol Whip, you want that thief following you around too? Just sounds like whining to me, we want we want… More Balance

I’ve tried the staff out although I will concede my experience with ele is rather small but the only skill I recall grounding you was meteor shower (I know churning earth also does so)

but when comparing that to warrior that’s little
kill shot 100 blades eviscerate earthshaker skull crack flurry combustion shot and that’s just off my head. that is kinda every major skill the warrior has… literally.

for the record I’m not saying nerf ele actually they could probably use a few buffs but their is a major difference between have 1 weapon set + 4 attunements vs 2 weapon sets.

you also missed my point entirely I said most not that the warrior is the only one grounded or is the only with telegraphed attacks only that it has more hell were getting a new one with pin down I mind you. yeah I could be wrong if it’s taken literally although from my experience I do mean it literally

imo I’m not whining I’m pointing out facts that a lot of warriors skills are highly telegraphed majority of which are usually called op I’m sorry but I can’t take 100 blades op serious in a pvp setting.

I think the warrior is pretty dang balanced as does many in the warrior community I think that some classes does need some buffs they are areas that warrior will probably see nerfs but not on the level that many want.

hell heres proof I’m a condition warrior I’ve taken a hit arguable in the last few balances and quite frankly I still don’t care and quite honestly I never notice the change if these are the kind of nerf to get people to drop it then fine shave a measly 8% of my heal sig off boost it’s buff.

imo I’m also not worried about pindown quite frankly I don’t see why any ss/lb builds would be.

the issue I do take is that people keep calling warriors op and demanding nerfs when it usually makes no sense oh yeah sig of healing ….. you can burst them down use posions loads of counters your only punished if you wait to kill them (i.e. theif using stealth way too much)

warriors are a pretty balanced class yes we are strong but we are by no means op.

Hard to compare range vs melee telegraphed skills; primarily due to being able to avoid telegraphed melee attacks simply by stepping back 2 feet. Most highly telegraphed attacks root the player. Ele (with the exception of Dragon Tooth…just stupid) can still hit a moving target at range, despite the windup.

Channeled skills vs. Telegraph… Which one do you want to talk about?? Either way go play your elementalist, maybe for a week and come back with an accurate post.

staff ele has a ton of ground based aoe that you walk out of, its no different. Go check the wiki and look at all classes and their weapon skills the cast times. Since it really doesn’t sound like many have been played. Then youll probably come to the conclusion warrior is being balanced, nerfed but balanced with other classes.

Nothing and nobody needs a nerf. Nerfing is a BAD strategy. You don’t nerf what is good, you improve what is bad.

However, to all people saying warriors is easymode, play the build I linked. And then come back and cry to mummy.XD

mini.6018:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Warriors are actually ok and other classes need some help. Imo what makes warrior so strong. Dolyak singet and balanced stance. With these two you can have very high stability upkeep. Pretty much no other class can do this and they suffer because of it. CC needs diminishing returns or other classes need more stability.

Please dont be below average iq lvl.Warriors need stability because they are melee class and need constant time hugging the target while other classes spam their damage form range .Without stability you can keep 100% the warrior away from you and dps him down while he can’t even touch the target with his melee skills.Next time use your brain before you post please.No other class needs that much upclose uptime besides guardian and they are a support class with very high stability§/immunity uptime too.

You basicly want warriors to have stability on par with anyone else but without the teleports stealth ranged and so on.Please

wow this makes no sense lol

I mean you would be right if warriors didnt also have the best mobility in the game. So paired with the best mobility, the most stability, the most CC, best armor values, second best internal healing, and probably the highest aoe crit damage available… they are fine? Why do you tell people to think before they speak when obviously you are not.

Warriors right now are simply the strongest class due to the imbalance of skill mechanics offered across the board. They don’t need life steal since their internal healing beats any kind of life steal there is. Their condition removal is given FAR more generously than any other class is given stability.

So not only are warriors able to quickly engage into melee range but also keep your opponent in melee range and not be affected by anything that would throw them out of melee range while doing massive crit damage.

The thing about why CC especially stuns are so imbalanced is that if you stun an enemy for 3 seconds you have internally healed nearly 1300 health. This is all passive. Plus, you are probably dealing insane damage to somebody who is not given proper amount of defense to withstand it. The cooldowns allow skill chains reset that completely kill nearly any other class in the game. Gap closing, stunning, dealing massive aoe damage and cleansing when needed. Even blocking.

If a warrior is not OP u are lying to yourself.