Guild Wars 2

Dekk.3459:

Channeled skills vs. Telegraph… Which one do you want to talk about?? Either way go play your elementalist, maybe for a week and come back with an accurate post.

staff ele has a ton of ground based aoe that you walk out of, its no different. Go check the wiki and look at all classes and their weapon skills the cast times. Since it really doesn’t sound like many have been played. Then youll probably come to the conclusion warrior is being balanced, nerfed but balanced with other classes.

[b]ok bud i never said warriors are the only class that have highly telegraphed skills i did say we have a lot of them possibly more then any other class i guess the ele who has 2x the attacks the warrior has could be the exception i’ll admit it. however that does not change my point that warriors attacks are obvious and easy to either interrupt or dodge.[b/]

you said i was whining yet the only thing I’ve said about recent / upcoming nerfs are they don’t bother me. that is NOT the definition of whining. if you have proof any proof i have been whining quote me on it it’s easy to do if not then drop it.

i’m talking about telegraphed and every skill i listed is very telegraphed or very obvious if you would prefer. also stop trying to spin my words around i never said that other classes didn’t have telegraphed or obvious attacks and you know what they do have a load of them. i may be wrong maybe the ele (who has 2x as many attacks as a warrior) may infact have more guess what doesn’t change the point. if something is obvious it’s good.

hell in balance profession anet already made it clear on lich form (which was also called op) would not be nerfed because it’s obvious and it’s cd.

warrior is already pretty balanced in no place have i said the upcoming update bothers me unless you can quote me saying such then drop it if you can feel free to post it and shut me up.

the nerfs to the warrior well I’ve experienced every single one kind of hard to call any of them a nerf. since they have been so minor that their blatantly unnoticeable. i’ll prove it they dropped the radius of a ad 1 combustive shot. well at that range it’s only use would be to use as a personal fire field and a your a lot easier to hit with your attack then the opponent. some warriors are on edge that they are messing with our skills frankly their over reacting. however i also get annoyed when i got to warrior fourms and theres a group saying warrior is too op esp when one of the reason is kill shot crits for 16k. yeah move in which the warrior kneels down aims at you for over a second (almost two) is op if it hits and happens to hurt someone for i guess not paying attention.

am i against a blantant nerf to do nothing short of greatly weaken warriors so every class can and will face roll them yeah you bet. at the same time there is no class (including ele) that is so outclassed that the warrior needs a major cut t be brought into line.

also if your thinking what happening to the sigil of healing is a nerf i’m sticking to my guns it’s a buff.

we are losing 8% of our healing power (passive) while getting a bonus that the devs them self have said (we want it to be worth using.) i’ll wager other classes will be hit harder then the warrior as well.

what annoys me and so many on this fourm is when people come and literally whine. omg warrior so op 100 blades hits for 40k kill shot crits for 16k. this would be no diff if i went into the ele fourms and said ele need nerf meteor shower and churning earth is too op.

oh btw keep in mind no warrior no warrior build is as versitle as a single elementalist.

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

Honestly it’s more like this:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior > Every other class

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

I’m too lazy to correct some of them but you get the idea. Warrior isn’t the best, but it sure as hell is NOT the least for most of those.

ReesesPBC.4603:

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

Honestly it’s more like this:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior > Every other class

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

I’m too lazy to correct some of them but you get the idea. Warrior isn’t the best, but it sure as hell is NOT the least for most of those.

Give this man a cookie

@anyone who defends warriors without a second thought.. Read it. Understand it. Then maybe you’ll realize you are simply defending a class that will beat any other class in about 8 out of 10 aspects of the game.

Gutts.8791:

Bombsaway, I understand what you’re trying to do / say but it just doesn’t work. Your “key elements” to how characters work in this game is just too black & white. The complexities of GW2 combat are just way too in-depth to label things like that. From the options you’ve given, you could make it sound like a mesmer is absolutely terrible except for say ….. condition damage.

Now I know this is going to sound like the opposite of what I just said, but I once described characters based around a pyramid of:-

damage a character can produce / damage a character can mitigate with class mechanics / healing per second

Now, lets say you could somehow attach a figure to each one of those in some weird “maths” equation, and imagine that “damage a character can mitigate with class mechanics” x “healing per second” = total survivability. The warrior is no where near the top.

Healing signet for example, is the highest heal in the game per second at 392 base heal per second. Mesmer has Ether Fest which providing is used with 3 illusions (basically always) has a heal rate of 356 per second (it’s on a 20 second cooldown).

Now, the warrior has “high armor” which basically means jack kitten. The mesmer on the hand has so many tricks up his sleeve, the damage mitigation is enormous. Without any clones / illusions getting in the way and doing damage while I can run around as a mesmer, I have two skills on a 30 second cooldown and 40 second cooldown which provide 4 seconds of stealth each. That’s 8 seconds, of a warrior helplessly attacking clones, while I run around and do whatever the hell I want while my heal comes off cooldown, essentially making the cooldown of the skill 12 seconds as I was stealthed for 8, and providing I am not kittened I shouldn’t be taking damage while stealthed. Now if you want to calculate things in as black & white as you did, that makes Etherfest heal for 623 HP/s out of seconds that I’m actually there as a visible target.

Now, let’s add do it, clones, which in a hurry can be hard to distinguish between the real mesmer, and phantasms who are dealing auto damage to the warrior whether or not the mesmer is stealth, CCed or whatever. Then let’s add to that the instant teleport which can be treated for a 24 second cooldown. Then let’s add to that the evade on sword#2.

That is SO much damage mitigation there to class mechanics, it makes the mesmer’s survivability in a 1 to 1 stand off ENORMOUSLY larger than a warriors no matter what build he’s running. It’s why I’ve recently made the switch (I’ve mained a warrior since launch) Yeah, warriors can run away, but what difference does that make in WvW or PvP. When you’re capping points, you need to be there, not running away. I have solo’d a camp as mesmer which actually had a decently built and played warrior defending it. There is no way on earth my warrior would be able to do that, and I’ve only been playing my mesmer for 3 days (levelled him months ago).
.

u are aware of the fact that u are describing a 1v1 encounter vs a mes. yes mes is strong in 1v1, but we got no stability, terrible condi cleanse and not enough dps over time. a mesmer can litteralu unload all his skills and phantasms and the tanky war will still be at least at half health and then your signet will heals while phantasms are on cd and all other abilities too, so fighting a heavy armor class is a long fight for me as a mes.

now in 1v1 yes we are a pain, but in wvw none of the things u described work in a large fight. no clones to protect u, phantasms insta die, or get cced before they even get 1 hit off, eather feast has not enough illusions to heal a lot as u can barely manage to keep 1 illusion up. meanwhile u are cc’ed to death and our out of combat speed is a joke. at least u dont have los issues with all your main dmg dealing attacks. phantsms get los all the time. i cant even hit an unbuilt oil in wvw.
all the clone traits and phantasm traits and all that stuff that sounds so great, are useless in a zerg, where your class is king.
im the one veiling u and that it. i cant kill i cant deal decent aoe dmg.
dont get me wrong i dont want war being nerfed to the ground. id rather have my class reworked so i can join wvw zergfights the same way your class can and not be a utility slot bot for your class.

@Wildfang

The reality is that warrior is very much offense oriented. So when the class mechanic is an extra attack based on your main hand weapon there are going to be telegraphs. Those attacks hit for 3-5X an auto attack… so you’re asking for instant win buttons. In a game that is based around active dodge expecting to have those buttons is just silly. So while you may not be whining (it is written word on a forum). IMO when considering the game mechanics it really seems like a futile argument for what would be an unfair advantage. And no I do not want to see any finger pointing at thief and their stealth tactics since its one of the only viable builds they have, really sad.

It is probably best to compare similar classes like warrior and guardian. Compare the telegraphs from greatsword and hammer with each of those classes… Not really much of a difference, telegraphs exist for both.

TheDevice.2751:

ReesesPBC.4603:

Harper.4173:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

Honestly it’s more like this:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior > Every other class

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

I’m too lazy to correct some of them but you get the idea. Warrior isn’t the best, but it sure as hell is NOT the least for most of those.

Give this man a cookie

@anyone who defends warriors without a second thought.. Read it. Understand it. Then maybe you’ll realize you are simply defending a class that will beat any other class in about 8 out of 10 aspects of the game.

Except that man disqualified himself when he :
1) Considered guardians bunker better than wars.
2) Rated warriors above thieves in Solo roaming in WvW.

I won’t bother to explain how bad that is.

Like I mentioned I was too lazy to adjust everything just as you were too lazy to make an accurate ranking. So I’ll leave it at that.

Fixed

Bunker : This is funny because any profession can bunker. But Gurdian/Ele > Warrior everything else
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer/Thief > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian/Ranger > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian/Engi > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian/Mesmer/Ele/Engi> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer/Thief/Mesmer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis/Thiefs > Warrior > Every other class
Sustained Melee DPS Warrior > Everything ele
Mobility Thief/Warrior > everything else

As you can see in a few categories warriors are best around 3, all of the rest they are either middle of the pack or bellow. A very solid and balanced class that is not OP. The class that is OP is Mesmer. who scored high in more categories than any other.

Warlord.9074:

Fixed

Bunker : This is funny because any profession can bunker. But Gurdian/Ele > Warrior everything else
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer/Thief > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian/Ranger > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian/Engi > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian/Mesmer/Ele/Engi> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer/Thief/Mesmer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis/Thiefs > Warrior > Every other class
Sustained Melee DPS Warrior > Everything ele

Just because… you say so? kitten?

Highest mobility goes to warriors / thieves hands down. Cuz i say so
Highest crowd control effects (stuns, knockdowns, cripples, immobilize) go to Warriors cuz i say so.
Highest physical Aoe Goes to warriors / thieves cuz I say so.
Highest condition / effect removal utility (…including stability) Goes to warriors / engi/ guard cuz i say so.
Highest sustain melee goes to warriors. Yay we agree.
Highest bunker potential goes to warriors / guards / engi. Cuz I say so.

All you did was sort out what aspects of the game you thought you can get away with saying warrior is at least 3rd tier or lower grade in. And just on your opinion. No explaining. No mechanic comparison. No numbers or real-play equivalent examples. Just creating your own boundaries in an argument you make seem covers everything so warriors seem legit. XD pls

However, I realized that the cripple spam in this game is kinda crazy. Now I see why I need dogged march.

You know, necros can stack a lot of cripple. Without cleansing ire or berserker stance you just stand there, limping. That was one of the reason why warriors were dogkitten.

TheDevice.2751:

Warlord.9074:

Fixed

Bunker : This is funny because any profession can bunker. But Gurdian/Ele > Warrior everything else
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer/Thief > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian/Ranger > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian/Engi > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian/Mesmer/Ele/Engi> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer/Thief/Mesmer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis/Thiefs > Warrior > Every other class
Sustained Melee DPS Warrior > Everything ele

Just because… you say so? kitten?

Highest mobility goes to warriors / thieves hands down. Cuz i say so
Highest crowd control effects (stuns, knockdowns, cripples, immobilize) go to Warriors cuz i say so.
Highest physical Aoe Goes to warriors / thieves cuz I say so.
Highest condition / effect removal utility (…including stability) Goes to warriors / engi/ guard cuz i say so.
Highest sustain melee goes to warriors. Yay we agree.
Highest bunker potential goes to warriors / guards / engi. Cuz I say so.

All you did was sort out what aspects of the game you thought you can get away with saying warrior is at least 3rd tier or lower grade in. And just on your opinion. No explaining. No mechanic comparison. No numbers or real-play equivalent examples. Just creating your own boundaries in an argument you make seem covers everything so warriors seem legit. XD pls

Cleave is not AOE. AOE is 5 targets and is typically a ranged attack. A cleave is limited to 3 targets and is melee so you are wrong about that. highest condition removal goes to guardians. Highest bunker is no doubt guardians. Its one thing to say something that is true because you say so its another thing to say something false because u say so.

Dekk.3459:

@Wildfang

The reality is that warrior is very much offense oriented. So when the class mechanic is an extra attack based on your main hand weapon there are going to be telegraphs. Those attacks hit for 3-5X an auto attack… so you’re asking for instant win buttons. In a game that is based around active dodge expecting to have those buttons is just silly. So while you may not be whining (it is written word on a forum). IMO when considering the game mechanics it really seems like a futile argument for what would be an unfair advantage. And no I do not want to see any finger pointing at thief and their stealth tactics since its one of the only viable builds they have, really sad.

It is probably best to compare similar classes like warrior and guardian. Compare the telegraphs from greatsword and hammer with each of those classes… Not really much of a difference, telegraphs exist for both.

dekk i’m not asking for a win button NO ONE Is I have not said that any of the coming nerfs are that bad frankly I’ve said I DO NOT MIND THEM repeatedly

I am NOT asking for our moves to become less telegraphed which is the best I can assume you think (which means you’ve missed about 99% of what i’m talking about) I am saying that a move is fine and balanced when your opponent has complete warning what is coming. I am and will continue to say that these obvious tells are one of the main things the warrior has that makes it balanced and it is not nearly as op kitten many make it out to be.

I am saying that when people call warriors op and act like we have no flaws esp when someone has not played a warrior bombsaway the make of this thread admitted to it in his first post.

I am saying that if my move is going to be obvious as hell it should hurt just as much. I am not saying the warrior needs any real buffs. I am saying that these assumptions that the warrior is a broken profession is over powered is absurd.

keep in mind you are talking about a class with little to no damage mitigation other then it’s armor which has to be high for a reason. a warrior would not last long as it is with out many of these so called op abilities that were made because the war would not stand a chance or bluntly put unplayable.

they are classes that need buffs I do not mind anet trimming my class abilities as long as it’s not in some absurd way.

however to call a warrior op because of kill shot criting for 16k is absurd he literally stands that doing nothing obvious as hell what is going to happen for about 2 seconds. how much damage is a move like that supposed to do?

since you assume i’m asking for a win button how about you look at all of my posts every single one. show me a quote that I said were I said anything that pointed me to me asking for any animations to be changed. what I have said from post one on this thread is that (the warrior doesn’t really need any nerfs it’s pretty balance) to which some people seem to take offense. when asked to list a reason why the warrior is balanced I brought up insanely obvious animations.

eviscerate obvious kill shot even more so 100 blades hits like a truck but can be saw a mile away and is easily interrupted. it is easily one of the most high risk moves in the entire game as it literally does everything it physically can to make it so.

insane channel 3 seconds check
rooted into the ground with a melee weapon in a game that you have to move. also check.

like it or not the warrior is in a good spot right now it will likely maintain said spot into the future.

also you asked me to compare guardian well my guard is lvl 3 I think I never really got into playing it.

however what I do know is there is literally only 1 single skill on the gs that needs to be feared 100 blades. which is as subtle as a tank driving down manhattan. he literally for 3 seconds does nothing but swing and is rooted (which you previously claimed made the ranger balance in the case of barrage)

I will also point out the majority of the damage comes not from the weak swings that hit you at first but the final one. i’m sorry but if a move goes against the game play of the game (as rooting does in gw2) forces you to stay there for 3 seconds it’s going to hurt other wise the move is a waste of time and a waste of space.

on the theif thing do not put words in my mouth unless I say them please. I have only 1 time mentioned thieves on this form and it was to mention that thieves can easily spam their attacks while regain initiave through several means. before you say anything I have a lvl 80 theif I’ve used it in pve I’ve used it in wvw I only have not used it in spvp.

Warlord.9074:

nothing you said made any sense and I read it. warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game. This is a profession that is meant to facetank and do high melee DPS because it is a warrior. Look up warrior in the dictionary and that is the definition of a warrior. There is nothing wrong with warriors they are exactly how they should be there is a bunch of problems with the other professions ranger is one of them. How about you guys accept the fact that warriors are warriors and ask ANET to fix your other classes. And stop making useless threads asking for anet to nerf warriors because your class is broken and is underpowered.

What he said makes perfect sense actually. However, what you said does not. You cannot apply the denotation of the word “warrior” to a video game- it simply does not work. If you were to for instance, apply the true meaning of a necromancer to this game, what would stop them from using all they kill as their minions? You would have necromancers walking around with their own armies. Now back to the topic on hand: the warrior. All the OP is saying is that warriors are good at too many things. For example, if a class is superb in one area like extreme tanking, said class should not be able to out damage another class which is horrid at tanking but has high damage; that would not be balanced. For the sake of the game, balance must take priority over our imaginations of what should be.

Warlord.9074:

TheDevice.2751:

Warlord.9074:

Fixed

Bunker : This is funny because any profession can bunker. But Gurdian/Ele > Warrior everything else
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer/Thief > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian/Ranger > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian/Engi > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian/Mesmer/Ele/Engi> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer/Thief/Mesmer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis/Thiefs > Warrior > Every other class
Sustained Melee DPS Warrior > Everything ele

Just because… you say so? kitten?

Highest mobility goes to warriors / thieves hands down. Cuz i say so
Highest crowd control effects (stuns, knockdowns, cripples, immobilize) go to Warriors cuz i say so.
Highest physical Aoe Goes to warriors / thieves cuz I say so.
Highest condition / effect removal utility (…including stability) Goes to warriors / engi/ guard cuz i say so.
Highest sustain melee goes to warriors. Yay we agree.
Highest bunker potential goes to warriors / guards / engi. Cuz I say so.

All you did was sort out what aspects of the game you thought you can get away with saying warrior is at least 3rd tier or lower grade in. And just on your opinion. No explaining. No mechanic comparison. No numbers or real-play equivalent examples. Just creating your own boundaries in an argument you make seem covers everything so warriors seem legit. XD pls

Cleave is not AOE. AOE is 5 targets and is typically a ranged attack. A cleave is limited to 3 targets and is melee so you are wrong about that. highest condition removal goes to guardians. Highest bunker is no doubt guardians. Its one thing to say something that is true because you say so its another thing to say something false because u say so.

I never said cleave is AOE………………

But! Earthshaker is an aoe, Hammer auto3 is an aoe.. wait a second.. Whirling Axe is an AOE… probably ony of the most hard-hitting aoe’s in the game btw. These are called point-blank aoe attacks. They hit up to 5 targets near the caster. So you are wrong. Very wrong. Warriors have a lot of aoe damage.

And Guardian as the best bunker vs a Warrior is completely your opinion. Just because guardians can regen and remove conditions and grant boons doesnt mean warriors cant do the same. In fact warriors have more (effective) blocks than guardians and mainly sustain through offensive conditions and aoe CC.

If you arent a warrior or play one as a main on your account refrain from posting time wasting crap like this on our forums please we are too busy getting owned by every other class in the game in spvp and wvw to listen to your tears. IF YOU CANNOT BEAT A WARRIOR YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

Kargath.6598:

If you arent a warrior or play one as a main on your account refrain from posting time wasting crap like this on our forums please we are too busy getting owned by every other class in the game in spvp and wvw to listen to your tears. IF YOU CANNOT BEAT A WARRIOR YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

If you’re getting owned as a warrior by every other class in the game YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. And sadly there isnt an easier class for you. T_T

both thief and necro are pretty BS right now.

Kargath.6598:

If you arent a warrior or play one as a main on your account refrain from posting time wasting crap like this on our forums please we are too busy getting owned by every other class in the game in spvp and wvw to listen to your tears. IF YOU CANNOT BEAT A WARRIOR YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

Source ?

I get it is no fun to have folks thinking maybe your class got buffed a bit too much.
But I think the poster who explains that warriors are top 3 in all major utility and damage categories has a point.
That wouldn’t be so horrible if the warrior was basically very vulnerable (to cc, to condition, to immobilize etc).

But they are not bottom 3 in defense by any stretch.
Sorry, but it really is time for warriors to be toned down.
You can’t just buff up other classes in a game that also has PvE or you get power creep.

So for warriors willing to accept that the pendulum may have swung too far, what is the right way to bring warriors back in line (give them a weakness or two) that won’t make the class miserable to play?

Bombsaway.7198:

So for warriors willing to accept that the pendulum may have swung too far, what is the right way to bring warriors back in line (give them a weakness or two) that won’t make the class miserable to play?

In PvE warrior is nowhere near top tier dps, so i assume this is about tPvP.

Dont they already do? Huge telegtaphs

and they are already fairly susceptible to CC and conditions even with hambow meta.

What you’re asking is a hard counter, which i don’t believe should be implemented. I would prefer battles to be pressure and spike based.

Bombsaway.7198:

I get it is no fun to have folks thinking maybe your class got buffed a bit too much.
But I think the poster who explains that warriors are top 3 in all major utility and damage categories has a point.
That wouldn’t be so horrible if the warrior was basically very vulnerable (to cc, to condition, to immobilize etc).

But they are not bottom 3 in defense by any stretch.
Sorry, but it really is time for warriors to be toned down.
You can’t just buff up other classes in a game that also has PvE or you get power creep.

So for warriors willing to accept that the pendulum may have swung too far, what is the right way to bring warriors back in line (give them a weakness or two) that won’t make the class miserable to play?

bombs the warrior is not this op monster I’m sorry but it really seems you don’t agree with that. at the same time you’ve never played a warrior. I really don’t know what the is supposed to do other then incite rage between players. warrior has had a lot of these OP things and was a bluntly put unplayble class. booms this is pointless seriously no one here really believe the warrior is op. hell we joke about it.

you by your own admittance have not played a warrior and frankly you don’t know jack about warriors other then they have heavy armor they hit hard and have sustain.

well a bit of interesting info a warrior has virtually no damage mitigation we do not get protection which is a big deal. warriors need that armor and need that sustain where other classes don’t because we literally do have to tank everything.

we don’t get minions to help we don’t get stealth so we can take a breather we don’t get protection which is a big deal since under protection a light armor class will have more armor then a heavy. (as long as toughness is ignored)

engis have more access to conditions are up with warriors in cc (actually surpassing them I believe) and does damage from a far mostly. engis are better for support with access to BOTH fire and water field warrior has fire.

I’ve been here since you started this nuisance and honestly the only thing I’ve seen regaurding the post who claimed warrior was in the top 3 had a point. …that was bs I saw no numbers no figures nothing people literally claims with out evidences and ik evidenct to the contray.

one claimed a guard is not as good a bunker as a warrior false.

warrior has a higher rate of heal but has 1/3rd less armor then the guard. who also has aegis and regen making it more one side.

honestly bombs this will be my final post here it’s a waste of my time a waste of your and waste of anyone who actually bothers with this. the nerfs you and so many want are not likely to come the way you want.

TheDevice.2751:

Warlord.9074:

TheDevice.2751:

Warlord.9074:

Fixed

Bunker : This is funny because any profession can bunker. But Gurdian/Ele > Warrior everything else
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer/Thief > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian/Ranger > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian/Engi > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian/Mesmer/Ele/Engi> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer/Thief/Mesmer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis/Thiefs > Warrior > Every other class
Sustained Melee DPS Warrior > Everything ele

Just because… you say so? kitten?

Highest mobility goes to warriors / thieves hands down. Cuz i say so
Highest crowd control effects (stuns, knockdowns, cripples, immobilize) go to Warriors cuz i say so.
Highest physical Aoe Goes to warriors / thieves cuz I say so.
Highest condition / effect removal utility (…including stability) Goes to warriors / engi/ guard cuz i say so.
Highest sustain melee goes to warriors. Yay we agree.
Highest bunker potential goes to warriors / guards / engi. Cuz I say so.

All you did was sort out what aspects of the game you thought you can get away with saying warrior is at least 3rd tier or lower grade in. And just on your opinion. No explaining. No mechanic comparison. No numbers or real-play equivalent examples. Just creating your own boundaries in an argument you make seem covers everything so warriors seem legit. XD pls

Cleave is not AOE. AOE is 5 targets and is typically a ranged attack. A cleave is limited to 3 targets and is melee so you are wrong about that. highest condition removal goes to guardians. Highest bunker is no doubt guardians. Its one thing to say something that is true because you say so its another thing to say something false because u say so.

I never said cleave is AOE………………

But! Earthshaker is an aoe, Hammer auto3 is an aoe.. wait a second.. Whirling Axe is an AOE… probably ony of the most hard-hitting aoe’s in the game btw. These are called point-blank aoe attacks. They hit up to 5 targets near the caster. So you are wrong. Very wrong. Warriors have a lot of aoe damage.

And Guardian as the best bunker vs a Warrior is completely your opinion. Just because guardians can regen and remove conditions and grant boons doesnt mean warriors cant do the same. In fact warriors have more (effective) blocks than guardians and mainly sustain through offensive conditions and aoe CC.

This is the last time I will respond to you cuz I am putting you in your place. You don’t play a warrior lets face it so you have no idea what you are talking about.

Whiling axe is an extremly weak skill. The auto attack does more damage than whirling axe. Anyone who knows anything about warriors knows this already and almost no warriors use this skill. The skill that thiefs steal from warriors is better than the warrior skill. It is not the same skill at all.

Hammer 3 is a aoe cripple with extreemy weak damage. This skill used to be good with traited leg specialist as you could immobilize 5 targets, Leg specialist was nerfed and was given a 10 sec ICD the same time sword was buffed and now only applies to one target. Are you seriously arguing that a low damage melee ranged cripple is a justification for warriors being best at AOE.

Lastly Dec 10th path Earth Shakers damage recived a significant nerf. But arguiung that a Burst skill can compete with a normal skill proves that your understanding of warrior class mechanics is very low. Busrt skills are not skills that warriors can just use whenever they want they need to be charged 1st by doing damage or taking lots of damage generally if traited cleasing ire. There are 2 utilities that will charge the adrenaline but they are 1 time use things and you are basically having to use a skill to use a skill. Or in the case of building adrinaline with attacks you have to use like multiple skills and do lots of damage before you can use a skill.

AOE generally means a attack just throwing that out there that hits 5 targets or more. Not counting burst skills warrior has 2 on the bow 1 being weaker than the auto attack. 1 on the hammer also being weaker than the auto attack. 1 on the axe being weaker than the auto attack chain and also consuming more time. That is all.
For burst skills taht do aoe warrior has 1 on the hamemr 1 on the bow.

This list is far far far shorter that Elementalist, Necro, Engineer, Mesmer please learn about a class before you comment on one. Thank you for reading.

ReesesPBC.4603:

Honestly it’s more like this:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior > Every other class

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

I’m too lazy to correct some of them but you get the idea. Warrior isn’t the best, but it sure as hell is NOT the least for most of those.

Maybe he ist not the best in everything, but above average, which makes him “OP”.

why could help is, take a build and give it points 1 bad, 10 good and fill out the list above. Then do the same for other classes with different builds and you will notice that most of them will have 25% less points in total.

E: maybe you should split AOE dmg into melee and ranged AOE.
E2: and fill out some netcharts to visualize the results.

wildfang.9670:

warrior has a higher rate of heal but has 1/3rd less armor then the guard.

I do hope you’re kidding.

whyme.3281:

ReesesPBC.4603:

Honestly it’s more like this:

Bunker : Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Support and healing allies : Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Solo roaming in WvW : Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVP) : Thief / Mesmer > Warrior > Every other class
Single target damage ( PVE) : Ele/Thief/Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Might stacking: Ele/ Guardian > Warrior > Every other class
Utility ( PVE – blocks, reflects, boons): Guardian> Warrior > Every other class
Condition damage: Necro/Engineer> Warrior > Every other class
AOE damage : Necros/Eles/Engis > Warrior > Every other class

Read it. Understand it.
Maybe realize warriors aren’t OP.

I’m too lazy to correct some of them but you get the idea. Warrior isn’t the best, but it sure as hell is NOT the least for most of those.

Maybe he ist not the best in everything, but above average, which makes him “OP”.

This game have no trinity. Warrior can play healer and ele can play tank.
As long as there is no 30/30/30/30/30 with 5 weaponswap builds.
The reason they nerfed hammer was because warriors could bring too much cc as well as dps. So they want diversity they just dont want them to be effective in everything at the same time.

so no trinity = imbalanced classes?

Really Warlord?

Warriors have no ranged capabilities? Someone must have forgotten to tell the 5-10 hambow warriors I see every single spvp match.

Makes sense that a heavy armour class with highest health pools gets access to a 1200 range ability weapon which can aoe every 7 seconds(traited) when an elementalists meteor shower is on a 30 second timer.

Or the fact that earthshaker is also basically on a 7 sec timer, yet equivalent skills on other classes are on 40 second timers…

It’s just far too easy for warriors to accumulate adrenaline, and adrenal abilities are on much too short of a cooldown. Earthshaker and combustive shot are FAR superior abilities to all the other hammer/bow skills, yet are on a significantly shorter timer.

Morons guide to why nothing is OP,
Are you in PvE?> Well you can use any ol’ thing you want although if you want to do dungeons with a group you should probably not use 15/12/13/16/14.

Are you in WvW?> Well bring a balanced power/toughness build and make up the crit dmg/precision with food or bring a faceroll condi tank and 1v5 a bunch of upleveled fools that don’t know what there doing and be sure to post about it on youtube to show how impressive you are.

Are you in pvp? well are you in hotjoins?> Then Google a good build for your profession take advice of the pros who quit the game for obvious reasons and you will faceroll all the noobs in town.

Are you in solo q?> Goodluck.

Are you in team que?> Bring a solid build and a solid group of reliable teammates that communicate well and have good builds maybe a, hambow warrior, d/p teef, guardian bunk, MM necro for home point (yes they are amazing shattap), and whatever for a 5th and 9/10 times you will win until your ranking goes up and you get kitten d by a pro team.

Are you dueling?> This game isn’t balanced for 1v1 situations if your purposely dueling and loosing its because some builds can completely counter you while others can semi counter you and some can be on equal standing, the only “fair” duel is same profession with same build fighting each other.

Can all is warriors stop replying to this thread so it goes away? Ty

phaeris.7604:

Really Warlord?

Warriors have no ranged capabilities? Someone must have forgotten to tell the 5-10 hambow warriors I see every single spvp match.

Makes sense that a heavy armour class with highest health pools gets access to a 1200 range ability weapon which can aoe every 7 seconds(traited) when an elementalists meteor shower is on a 30 second timer.

Or the fact that earthshaker is also basically on a 7 sec timer, yet equivalent skills on other classes are on 40 second timers…

It’s just far too easy for warriors to accumulate adrenaline, and adrenal abilities are on much too short of a cooldown. Earthshaker and combustive shot are FAR superior abilities to all the other hammer/bow skills, yet are on a significantly shorter timer.

Some people in the thread are really dense. No one said warriors do not have range. We said that other professions have better ranged options than warriors. Bows are also not 1200 range they are 900 and the hambow build does not use that trait. Even if it is traited for 1200 just because they have range doesn’t make the range they have as good as ele,necro,engi/ranger etc. About the only Class that is wotrst than warriors at range is Guardians who happen to be better bunkers than warriors. I honestly think you guys have either lost your minds or just really want to argue about things you dont know anything about. Lol you said they can AOE every 7 secs, they can AOE every 7 secs if they have adrinaline with one of the only AOEs warriors have, while ele has way more AOEs than meteor storm most which are more useful.

You totally do not understand the whole point of the topic. Warrior can do a little bit of everything, but is only strong in Melee, and Defense. While they are strong at doing melee damage, that doesn’t stop other players from learning to play and learning to build to avoid that. In which case other professions can be stronger than warriors in Defense because they have way more ways of mitigating damage than warriors s who just have their body and that is it.

Oh really, even with full zerk/signets and food all cooldowns activated i’d be happy to backstab someone for 13-14k on soft/medium armour targets when i ran my thief. What range is that killshot? Why, it’s a 1500 range ability? Oh look he has 20k hps!, the thief equivalent, (not that he could reach that damage at that range) would be 12kps and base toughness.

Whats that? Oh, yes, you infact have the strongest ranged ability in the game at the highest range.

phaeris.7604:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFcxnvqCG_M

Oh really, even with full zerk/signets and food all cooldowns activated i’d be happy to backstab someone for 13-14k on soft/medium armour targets when i ran my thief. What range is that killshot? Why, it’s a 1500 range ability? Oh look he has 20k hps!, the thief equivalent, (not that he could reach that damage at that range) would be 12kps and base toughness.

Whats that? Oh, yes, you infact have the strongest ranged ability in the game at the highest range.

If you die or even get hit by kiillshot you are simply very bad player.Even an ambient creature is harder to kill than a full killshot warrior and that my friend is not a personal opinion but a well known fact.Complaining about killshot pretty much tells everything about you and everyone else complaining as a player.

Just to make it clear how clueless people complaining about warriors are.LAst night i killed a thief in spvp while running a rifle build in a DUEL.The thief pm me and said" omg blatantly op".I rest my case there is no reasoning with noobs.

phaeris.7604:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFcxnvqCG_M

Oh really, even with full zerk/signets and food all cooldowns activated i’d be happy to backstab someone for 13-14k on soft/medium armour targets when i ran my thief. What range is that killshot? Why, it’s a 1500 range ability? Oh look he has 20k hps!, the thief equivalent, (not that he could reach that damage at that range) would be 12kps and base toughness.

Whats that? Oh, yes, you infact have the strongest ranged ability in the game at the highest range.

Yes and that warrios buidl was Glass, and his build had none of the OP traits you complained about. No cleansing ire, no CC no bows, and none of the kitten that you said made warriors OP. In fact his build is very weak and is only good at killing people who are running away or are not paying attention.

Haha, how about I turn that on it’s head.

If you’re unable to land a killshot as a warrior then you’re also terrible. Is it really that hard to land a killshot? The guy in the video had no issues, just time the evades and how can you miss? Did every class get infinite dodges or did I miss a patch?.

Your statement tells me all I need to know about your idea of balanced though.

phaeris.7604:

Haha, how about I turn that on it’s head.

If you’re unable to land a killshot as a warrior then you’re also terrible. Is it really that hard to land a killshot? The guy in the video had no issues, just time the evades and how can you miss? Did every class get infinite dodges or did I miss a patch?.

Your statement tells me all I need to know about your idea of balanced though.

Every target he shot didn’t event know he was doing Killshot.

Warlord.9074:

snip

Honestly I think I play warrior more than you do by seeing what you wrote here. This is all complete mush. Warriors don’t use Axe 5 people. You heard it here first. LAWL

Have you ever played a warrior before? Where are you getting this information from? sPVP whirling axe is a 50% increase in damage. And the base damage is less than an axe1 because axe1 ISNT AN AOE. Also, the effective damage of whirling axes is INSANELY higher than axe auto since it scales off power nearly 3x as well.

And don’t even get me started on burst skill because at this point im sure you’ve never played this class before in your life. Burst skills are the easiest bar to fill in the entire game. The only thing you’ll be waiting on is the recharge. If it takes you longer to refill you burst bar than it takes the skill to recharge you must be playing the wrong class like necromancer or something. I don’t even want to get into how easy it is to refill your adrenaline.

Glass being 20khps and 2390 armour i presume, so…so glassy….

Which in most other classes would be considered alot of vitality and ok toughness.

If you have one ability on a near 7 sec cooldown which hits for 15k and upwards at 1500 range then running away or not people are going to fall over, no other class has that capability at that range for so little sacrifice, that’s the issue here. Where is your sacrifice?

phaeris.7604:

Glass being 20khps and 2390 armour i presume, so…so glassy….

Which in most other classes would be considered alot of vitality and ok toughness.

If you have one ability on a near 7 sec cooldown which hits for 15k and upwards at 1500 range then running away or not people are going to fall over, no other class has that capability at that range for so little sacrifice, that’s the issue here. Where is your sacrifice?

Maybe in WvWvW. If you fight that warrior 1 on 1, you’ll tear him apart and avoid killshot.

Because there’s so much incentive and gameplay designed around 1v1 right?

If I wanted to win 1v1 i’d play a PU mesmer or a perp p/d thief and cheese my way to victory.

phaeris.7604:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFcxnvqCG_M

Oh really, even with full zerk/signets and food all cooldowns activated i’d be happy to backstab someone for 13-14k on soft/medium armour targets when i ran my thief. What range is that killshot? Why, it’s a 1500 range ability? Oh look he has 20k hps!, the thief equivalent, (not that he could reach that damage at that range) would be 12kps and base toughness.

Whats that? Oh, yes, you infact have the strongest ranged ability in the game at the highest range.

Are you seriously trying to troll the warrior community?

I want to see your proof of how that warrior comes up with 20k HPS

And killshot requires you to channel for 1.75s, which leaves you absolute vulnerable to everything….

Bombsaway.7198:

I am not a warrior though I do understand them having played them in pvp. That is fair warning. Likewise, this could explode which is not the intention but rather to put out a hypothesis and get intelligent feedback.

Hypothesis on How Balance Should Work: In any game the key for balance is creating counterbalance. Key performance features (say melee damage, condition damage, healing, armor, toughness, ability to evade, ability to engage, range, crowd control etc) should be spread across the classes in terms of best performance.

A. 2 classes should be at top.
B. 4 classes should be middle of the pack
C. 2 classes should be at the bottom (their Achilles’ heel).

You can always have a class that is basically completely middle of the class. However, for every ability where you are in the top 2, there should be a corresponding weakness (how opponents should exploit you).

Hypothesis on How Warriors Actually Work: Warriors face a lack of key performance areas where they are at the bottom but have far too many where they are at the top. It certainly is not balanced. Warriors have some of the highest offense and defense abilities without equally compelling areas where they are weak.

Do this exercise fairly below, then lets talk about balance.

1) What are the key performance factors of the game? Armor, Conditions, Cleaning Conditions etc. Remember to make these broad (of the game is the key).

2) Which of your list is the warrior in the top two or three?

3) Which of your list is the warrior in the bottom two or three?

4) Is it roughly balanced between areas where the warrior is at the top of the list in key performance areas and the bottom? (If not, then yes, there needs to be a nerf).

Wanting this to be more aha versus in your face, I will post my list towards the end of the conversation.

I think we can be best at whatever we choose to be,but u cant be best at all at same time,which is quite logical.

CC – in here,warr is best,mace + shield and hammer as for hard CC,range root on bow,knock on rifle and you can pick root on criple,so its almost for every weapon.
Utils,we got a lot of CC there too.I havent seen,or played anything with so many CC,as are awayble to warr,especially on such a low CDs.Lol,hammer having 3 knocks which even deal DMG?

Anti CC – We got 2 8s stability utils,endure pain of one best stun breaker with dmg imunity afterward and stability “i personaly think also best in game” from trait which prevents the CC and gives u stability.We can trait for anti-root traits like breaking roots on movement attacks.

Conditions – in here,it aint so great on paper,range fire field on bow,bleeds,bleeds trait from crit,torment on sword off hand.In game ofc its very strong,still not the best i ever played,so far.

Condie cleansing/condie imunity – zerker stance,really nice util on reasonable CD and very long duration,horn cleanse if traited,f1 abil cleanse if traited which can cleanse up to 3 condies on every weapon swap “if u got enough rage,which u 90% of time have” and if land succesfully your abil “which u land if u use sword main hand or LB”.Am not sure if there is some condie cleanse heal,as i never used anything outside of healing signet since i play warr.Some utils probally too,didnt checked any outside zerker stance.

Mitigation or dmg imunities/evades – mitigation,as everyone knows,heavy armor,so best mitigation “mitigation means softening direct dmg” except protecion boon.

3sblock on shield,4s on util endure pain and u can pick another from traits “note unlike other dmg imunities,we aint anyhow cripled when using it,we can freely walk/dps/cc anything”,some usually blocks on sword and i think mace got block aswell “dont remmember”.Only evade i can think of is GS whirl attack.

HP management/hp pool/healing – in here,so far best from all chars i am playing “am playing all except ranger and necro”.I think we got highest hp pool,and best heals i ever seen on any char.You can pick shout heals from traits for some party healing.

Direct dmg – again,either highest dps,or one of highest i saw"i dont play glass canon on thief or engie".Excelent burst dmg and sustain dmg.Applies same as for every other aspect of every other char,if you trait for it,build “pick stats” and pick right weapons.You can take faster weapon swap,which helps a lot increasing DPS even if u dont have CDs on weapon traited.

Mobility – 25% move speed from traits.Movement abils on GS and sword,f1 on hammer.bulls rush on util,swiftness from util and from horn.So again one of best in game.I dont think there is any class which could outrun/catch you if u pick right weapons/traits/utils.

All in all,i think we dont have any weak spot.We got a lot of weapon choices from which everyone has its place,from melee ST/AOE up to range ST/AOE.Lot of builds/traits where you got mostly problem picking which one would suit you more.The only weakness,i could think off is our mechanic,rage,around which many traits,and abils are build.Without it,warr is quite weak.

ALSO ofc many builds have weakspots as you cant have all weapons and traits at same time.But unlike others,we can pick nice middle road and be really good in anything at all times.My zerker warr,deals a lot direct dps melee/range,cleanse a lot,moves fast,survives a lot,thou i dont have any hard CC.Its one of my strongest chars,and i call him OP,together with my mesmer.And from looking and watching necros,i think we are the OP TRIO.

Nerfing warrs,aint really needed,there are mostly terrible warrs,and they would cry a lot if it would happen.Just read this forum sometimes :-).They call incoming change to pin down and HS a nerf,lol.

And now,flame/whine fest can really begin

phaeris.7604:

Because there’s so much incentive and gameplay designed around 1v1 right?

If I wanted to win 1v1 i’d play a PU mesmer or a perp p/d thief and cheese my way to victory.

Or small fights, like in spvp.

Where 1v1s happen, without dueling cheese, because there is the point to bear in mind.

In those situation killshot is too random to be reliable (you have to be lucky to land it, the enemy has to be unaware of you and remain in sight), while Volley alone LOOKS strong, because it shows big numbers, but considering the time spent to land them it’s not worth it.

The thing is many people consider warrior as a faceroll class. No skill required to play (for anyone not understanding faceroll). High damage skills that can be spammed… However in PvP things are not that simple, spam your high damage and it will get dodged. So do like the good pvpers, especially in 1v1s, count dodges, know what skills the other player is using. Warrior has the means to survive a fight long enough to figure out the other players build and then lay down their huge burst. And it is much easier for a warrior to spec for both offense and defense at this point.
As described many times before, being a top class consideration for so many categories makes warrior an easy choice. Low skill ceiling also lends to people complaining that they are OP.
I personally am not a fan of Anets ‘shaving’ policy. It is leading to many classes having a very limited amount of effective builds… Currently though the warrior class has a lot of fat for the trimming.

Name.9625:

Are you seriously trying to troll the warrior community?

I want to see your proof of how that warrior comes up with 20k HPS

And killshot requires you to channel for 1.75s, which leaves you absolute vulnerable to everything….

Actually I was wrong, he had 22khps. To prove it just press play on the video, and look at his hps…. :/

You’re right though, with those 22k hps he better be careful as 2 thieves might choose to backstab him simultaneously, or even worse 2 other rifle warriors might be lining up killshots on him, because with 22k hps no one is taking you down before that shot it fired.

phaeris.7604:

Name.9625:

Are you seriously trying to troll the warrior community?

I want to see your proof of how that warrior comes up with 20k HPS

And killshot requires you to channel for 1.75s, which leaves you absolute vulnerable to everything….

Actually I was wrong, he had 22khps. To prove it just press play on the video, and look at his hps…. :/

You’re right though, with those 22k hps he better be careful as 2 thieves might choose to backstab him simultaneously, or even worse 2 other rifle warriors might be lining up killshots on him, because with 22k hps no one is taking you down before that shot it fired.

Use hp.

HPS means healing per second.

Heimdallr.7021:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let’s not mention movement either. Set a race from coral on arah P1 and out of all the professions see who gets to the crystal champs first over and over again..to make it fun, leave all the mobs there and we’ll consider them obstacles. In the tpvp format this makes warrior ideally suited to pushing their home. If it does well they can neutralise and maybe even capture..if it doesn’t, they can high tail it out of there and not give away the 5 points.

This is GW2 or Formula 1?
Warrior is not the only class having access to swiftness and to be really that “fast” you have to bring GS and Sword with you which leave you without hammer of course and its very good CC.

You are over representing the hammer community. This is one thing I see constantly in warrior threads, that the assumption of hammer is always being used. To deny the advantages of swiftness and speed on near demand cannot be overlooked. You can’t damage what you can’t hit. You state that to achieve this one has to use sword/greatsword like this is some sort of disadvantage. Sword/shield-greatsword with practice can be as lethal as anything else if you dedicate the time to learn how to get the most from them. You also overly value CC. Nobody got downed from CC. Stuns do not down players, only the damage they take while they’re stunned downs players. This underlines what is a simple concept to understand. Damage downs players. You can use 150 stuns for all you like, but if you’re only hitting for meager amounts each time it doesn’t really mean anything. Badly played PU mesmers reinforce this notion. You can stealth, blind, blink, prot protection, mirror image and everything you want, but your doing no damage. You can attempt to discredit the value of speed, that is up to you. You can discredit gravity if you like, but if you jump off a cliff you are going to fall. Speed has it benefits and can be used to augment play style to the point that it is a winning factor.

Harper.4173:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

“A warrior’s weakness ( except for kiting and mesmers ) is the fact that he’ll never be THE BEST at whatever he’s doing.”

It’s called hammer. The most amount of hard and soft CC in game on one weapon that doesn’t require you to touch/use any of your utilities. No other profession weapon can do what hammer does. cleave-cleave weaken-AoE cripple-PbAoE knock back-heavy knock down-AoE stun.

So now that we have proven that statement completely wrong, shall we move on?

Let’s not mention movement either. Set a race from coral on arah P1 and out of all the professions see who gets to the crystal champs first over and over again..to make it fun, leave all the mobs there and we’ll consider them obstacles. In the tpvp format this makes warrior ideally suited to pushing their home. If it does well they can neutralise and maybe even capture..if it doesn’t, they can high tail it out of there and not give away the 5 points.

My statement – although I will admit in this particular case is wrong – stands true in all other situations posted above.

Also I’ve yet to see this strategy you mention being used – mind providing a video or something?

I would deeply love to provide video. I think most of us can agree theory crafting etc is one thing, but most of us would actually just prefer to see the build and a video of it in action. The issue with video is cherry picking. One can always just select the video that glorifies them the most and delete all other video of them getting stomped. However good examples of ‘fast and furious’ where the rabbit does beat the turtle where littered all throughout the pax final. Especially in the gran final match. The hammer warrior being able to disengage and use warrior sprint to leave center and push the spirit ranger on their home happened multiple times. If a downed player returning to the map spawned and went to their home to assist the spirit ranger the knockdown or pindown on them and GTFO of here was present with how fast warrior can move with just hammer, let alone if more mobile weapons were equipped. There is a also a contributor to warrior forums named Wilson institute. Most of their video’s are hammer, but he has put footage of greatsword of where rush, whirlwind, savage leap are being effectively used as escape mechanisms to avoid stomps when pushing didn’t go so well, and as short and sharp engagers when someone strayed to far from the flock. This, I hope provides enough sources to research for you that illustrates my point about the value of mobility.

Ok, to stir the pot a bit more and provide a bit more balance.

Hypothesis:Warriors are far less OP in small fights than in larger ones. (that is not saying they are not somewhat OP in general).
When fights scale to large groups certain play dynamics simply matter more than others. In a scaled up large group fight, the warrior really outshines. This is where the start of any adjustment should come in.

Do warriors agree that the nature of how large zerg or wvw fights work favors classes like warriors? (Same for guardians frankly).

redslion.9675:

However, I realized that the cripple spam in this game is kinda crazy. Now I see why I need dogged march.

You know, necros can stack a lot of cripple. Without cleansing ire or berserker stance you just stand there, limping. That was one of the reason why warriors were dogkitten.

That was one of the many many reasons Warriors were bottom of the barrel about a year ago against other professions. The issue is that ANet introduced two traits (Dogged March and then Cleansing Ire, in the same Trait line no less) that is now the crutch for all Warriors and completely forgot that non-spammable or soft condition Professions became nigh-worthless to counter Warriors.

TL;DR ANet didn’t balance soft/hard CC conditions correctly and should have used diminishing returns from the beginning. It is not a problem with Dogged March/Cleansing Ire per se. Dogged March/Cleansing Ire were hamstrung in to make the Warrior Profession ‘playable’ in WvW/sPvP.

To fix Dogged March/Cleansing Ire, ANet needs to realize what spammable/infinite chaining or renewing soft and hard CC does to the game.