Guild Wars 2

So were going off class descriptions now are we…..

Btw, ive just been watching a group of 3 rifle warriors, 1 guardian and 1 ele tear it up in wvw. It’s all you can do to avoid being hit by 14k killshots, and considering my toughness is 2800, and I have a meaty 15khps, yet my combos do 1/5 of their bar at a time, it is pretty ridiculous.

Even thief backstabs don’t hit me for that much.

Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem.

Killshot is just crazy in wvw at the moment, it’s a 1500 range death sentence in a zerg. Nothing at that range should hit for that much, especialy from a heavy armour class.

phaeris.7604:

So were going off class descriptions now are we…..

Btw, ive just been watching a group of 3 rifle warriors, 1 guardian and 1 ele tear it up in wvw. It’s all you can do to avoid being hit by 14k killshots, and considering my toughness is 2800, and I have a meaty 15khps, yet my combos do 1/5 of their bar at a time, it is pretty ridiculous.

Even thief backstabs don’t hit me for that much.

Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem.

Killshot is just crazy in wvw at the moment, it’s a 1500 range death sentence in a zerg. Nothing at that range should hit for that much, especialy from a heavy armour class.

Im sorry you can’t 1v5 :/

And no, a warrior cant spec full berserker and still get those stats.

I see subjects like this and I cry a little bit because obviously they have not seen tanky necros with so much hard hitting condies on staff skills, where they don’t even have to create an ounce of skill and strategic placement in wvw to gain rewards . Warriors do not need nerfs, they need more love in all honesty. To quote a guildy recently talking on guild chat when bragging about Necro skill. " All I have to do is spam staff, instant AOE and mass lootbags" was the content. Then when they pasted the damage I was beyond horrified regarding the damage for such a lazy weapon. Necros on the other hand need a kitten good nerf to develop them back to skill based play not the warriors.

Rifle is horrible in tPvP.

mzt.3270:

…Warriors do not need nerfs, they need more love in all honesty…

Ummm…..no.

warrs do need a nerf but not to the ground like some people want.

1. lower there health alittle to match the dmg they do or vise versa

2. dmg increase triats need a higher placement in there trees

3.fix the broken many broken/misstated traits such as stronger bowstrings

now im not suggesting all three of these at all
p.s. sorry for the poor grammar

Bombsaway.7198:

I Agree with Demandsynz the fundamental problem is warriors have things that a warrior should not have. They should not be great at range. They should not have heavy armor and be very mobile. (They should be the slowest to get into combat really but then hit hard and be able to take damage).

There is a reason in terms of game balance why other games split abilities that you find on a warrior. No other game would put so many toys on one toon. Why would GW2 be designed to be an exception?

Warrior shouldn’t have heavy armor? now i’ve heard them all.
You people are talking like warrior can do everything of that at the same time, the infamous hambow build everyone complain about doesn’t have mobility at all for example.

phaeris.7604:

Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem.

stop this bullkitten, you can’t go full berserk and have 22k HP (hps stand for healing per second by the way), let alone 3k armour.

Harper.4173:

Taken from the wiki :
Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor.

funny thing, “rely on toughness and heavy armor to survive.” So acording to the wiki, they dont need all those things, that makes them above average balance.

No cleansing ire, no adrenal health, no healing sign, no berserker stance….

I dont think, the warrior needed all those condition removals, with his hig base health and his life regen.

Lets think about it, if the warrior loses his condition imunity/removes (or atleas most of them). But therefore gets some new/reworked healingskills, that heals him while in combat or some percent of his damage done.
This would justify everything the warrior has right now, high damage, high mobility, high health and armor. A hard hitting enemy, that needs to stay in fight or run faster than everyone else can, to survive.

Warrior has alot of gap closers, cripples and anti CC imunity skills. So why does he on top of all that all those condi removes (btw. the best ingame)?

whyme.3281:

Warrior has alot of gap closers, cripples and anti CC imunity skills. So why does he on top of all that all those condi removes (btw. the best ingame)?

Because before he got all this condition removal warrior was laughable at best.

nah…. they had some bugged gap closers at the beginning, which didnt allow them to enter the fight fast enough.
Bulls charge for example was bugged at the beginning, you cant get to any target.

I think building out his offensive skills (relyable gap closers and CCs) and giving him survivability while in combat (damage to health and maybe some protection) would have made warrior to a great but balanced class. That still could take out every direct damage class with ease, but need skill/has problem against condition builds.

This would then mean, he need other teammates to take conditions of him, or run like hell, if he face a good condition player. And thats the biggest problem, he dont need to fear direct damage or condition builds, because he can be imune to both.

A Guardian on the other hand, has problems agains heavy burst damage, while he can deal with sustained damage. A guardian has to invest a lot to compensate this weakness. Vitality, thougness and defensive traits.
The warrior on the other hand needs 20 defensive trait points and thats it. Gear? some thoughness and vita is great, but he dont need it, to be strong.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFAUjkOFv5OyQMxBE0DNsK2iThAU9YO2w4A-jECBYfAUBAZmFRjteCtyiIaUXDT5iIq2mrIa1SBYxyI-w

So that’s something i threw together in 5 minutes. That without wvw stacks or wvw buffs.

4k attack, 100 percent crit damage, 50 percent crit chance,20k health, 3k armour.

All Berzerk gear. Look, I haven’t spent a single point in the power line and only 10 in the prec line, yet look at the damage off of that. With the ability to throw out killshots every 7 seconds.

But look at what stats i get if I try to do the same with say…a thief….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmKOncy9E/5Ey2jK0nIKuCOl2DAAAaJA-jECBYfBkKAIzsIas1ToVWERj6aYKXER12cFRrWKALWGB-w

Why look!, Oh yes, nice crit damage, good crit chance, good attack,..but oooh! the armour, only 2284, and only 14k health. It’s almost as if I had to sacrifice something in order to gain something in that template.

And look!, I can only do that huge combo every 45 seconds!. from point blank range, now imagine if I could do that from 1500….like say..killshot!.

But yeah, keep your blinkers on and keep claiming that having a huge base stat disparity yet still have the ability to access ranged weapons isn’t somehow ridiculously overpowered in an mmo. Being able to have huge damage/defence without putting any points into power or precision is the problem, no sacrifice is needed to get your stats.

Which is why you see so many warriors in WvW, it’s an easy forgiving class to play and spec.

phaeris.7604:

So were going off class descriptions now are we…..

Btw, ive just been watching a group of 3 rifle warriors, 1 guardian and 1 ele tear it up in wvw. It’s all you can do to avoid being hit by 14k killshots, and considering my toughness is 2800, and I have a meaty 15khps, yet my combos do 1/5 of their bar at a time, it is pretty ridiculous.

Even thief backstabs don’t hit me for that much.

Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem.

Killshot is just crazy in wvw at the moment, it’s a 1500 range death sentence in a zerg. Nothing at that range should hit for that much, especialy from a heavy armour class.

Except for the facts that :
1) Killshot is INCREDIBLY easy to dodge
2) Killshot leaves the warrior completely vulnerable as he channels it.
3) If you’re dying to a troll killshot build you’ve got yourself a L2P issue.

phaeris.7604:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFAUjkOFv5OyQMxBE0DNsK2iThAU9YO2w4A-jECBYfAUBAZmFRjteCtyiIaUXDT5iIq2mrIa1SBYxyI-w

So that’s something i threw together in 5 minutes. That without wvw stacks or wvw buffs.

4k attack, 100 percent crit damage, 50 percent crit chance,20k health, 3k armour.

All Berzerk gear. Look, I haven’t spent a single point in the power line and only 10 in the prec line, yet look at the damage off of that. With the ability to throw out killshots every 7 seconds.

But look at what stats i get if I try to do the same with say…a thief….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmKOncy9E/5Ey2jK0nIKuCOl2DAAAaJA-jECBYfBkKAIzsIas1ToVWERj6aYKXER12cFRrWKALWGB-w

Why look!, Oh yes, nice crit damage, good crit chance, good attack,..but oooh! the armour, only 2284, and only 14k health. It’s almost as if I had to sacrifice something in order to gain something in that template.

And look!, I can only do that huge combo every 45 seconds!. from point blank range, now imagine if I could do that from 1500….like say..killshot!.

But yeah, keep your blinkers on and keep claiming that having a huge base stat disparity yet still have the ability to access ranged weapons isn’t somehow ridiculously overpowered in an mmo. Being able to have huge damage/defence without putting any points into power or precision is the problem, no sacrifice is needed to get your stats.

Which is why you see so many warriors in WvW, it’s an easy forgiving class to play and spec.

Oh wow – your thief build.
Oh my – maybe part of the stat disparity comes form the fact that your THIEF CLASS DOES NOT REQUIRE HEALTH AND ARMOR TO SURVIVE SINCE ARENANET MADE THE CLASS WITH AN INNATE SURVIVAL MECHANISM – STEALTH.
Ever consider that?

If a thief could achieve the same numbers as the warrior example above and have STEALTH ON TOP OF THAT how balanced would that be?

Also – warriors having ranged weapons has never been brought up as an issue until you people ( the " nerf warrior " crowd came along and began spamming " nerf x or y about warrior " hoping something will stick).

phaeris.7604:

cut

what a pile of crap.
Have you considered the differences in the core mechanics of these classes?
Like stealth for example.

Harper.4173:

Bombsaway.7198:

I Agree with Demandsynz the fundamental problem is warriors have things that a warrior should not have. They should not be great at range. They should not have heavy armor and be very mobile. (They should be the slowest to get into combat really but then hit hard and be able to take damage).

There is a reason in terms of game balance why other games split abilities that you find on a warrior. No other game would put so many toys on one toon. Why would GW2 be designed to be an exception?

Taken from the wiki :
Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor.

notice the word SPEED being first in that line of attributes that come with the class.
You can’t HIT HARD when other professions are so well geared towards disengaging/ confusing / running away if you lack mobility.
A slow, hard hitting, heavy damage taking class is just a damage sponge if it has no means to deliver that damage ( mobility and range) which is EXACTLY what you want to take away from the warrior.

Did you really even think this through?

Yeah, let’s take the Wiki as the gospel:

“Mesmers can create illusions to fight by their side, which they use to harass enemies with phantasms or mislead them with clones. Illusions can also be shattered, destroying them and causing secondary effects, such as confusion, a powerful condition which damages foes as they continue their assault in vain. Their unique attribute increases their Shredding Recharge Rate.”

Confusion got nerfed over and over again, is neglible unless you stack it immensely which only can be done these days via Runes of Perplexity and yet, ironically, other classes are much better at stacking it via those Runes than a Mesmer, and this includes Warriors who can stack it very fast.

In any case…. you want to have (1) speed, (2) strength, (3) toughness, and (4) heavy armour. Where’s the trade-off? I’m all for warriors having speed, but they shouldn’t have heavy defenses then. If you’re want to be a hard-hitting tank, you move slowly. If you want to be hard-hitting and have high mobility, you should have little defensive stats.

Simple as that. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

Someone has clearly never played a thief if you can make statements like that. Thieves don’t need armour or health. Good luck with that attitude. My thief would eat thieves who spec like that all day long.

I’ve run rifle on my warrior, and i’ve never missed a killshot. I’ll tell you the secret.

Always go for people who are engaged with someone/something else ,then just press F1. You will never ever miss. ever.

See? Was that so hard? Every ability can be dodged in this game if you time it right. That didn’t stop them nerfing thieves and backstab damage.

But really the damage from killshot is just part of the picture. As mentioned the picture being you can have great stats on a warrior and great survivability, access to great melee and great ranged with no trade off?

I used to argue for the warrior when the game first came out since they were sub par. Now they’re just crazy strong.

phaeris.7604:

But really the damage from killshot is just part of the picture. As mentioned the picture being you can have great stats on a warrior and great survivability, access to great melee and great ranged with no trade off?

Great survivability? The build you linked it’s nothing close to great survivability, good luck getting eating by conditions with no way to take them off.
If with my warrior i spec for high armor, vitality, healing power i can assure you i have to give up a lot of crit. chance and crit. damage.

Why would you spec for high healing power? You get amazing healing with signet+adrenal, best heal in the game. Uninterruptible healing.

Newsflash!, Every class who specs for high healing power has to give up a damage or defence stat.

Also every class who specs for dps has to give up a defence stat.

Except the warrior!

Regarding conditions, you have the best condition removal ability in the game, 3 conditions every 7 seconds whilst doing damage. No one has anything close to that. If you think conditions are an issue to a warrior just think how they are to absolutely everyone else in the game.

You just throw in 30 defence, 30 discipline 10 anywhere else and you’ve covered all the bases. No need to invest in the power or precision lines! Swap in any weapons, it’s all the same!

Marsares.2053:

Harper.4173:

Bombsaway.7198:

I Agree with Demandsynz the fundamental problem is warriors have things that a warrior should not have. They should not be great at range. They should not have heavy armor and be very mobile. (They should be the slowest to get into combat really but then hit hard and be able to take damage).

There is a reason in terms of game balance why other games split abilities that you find on a warrior. No other game would put so many toys on one toon. Why would GW2 be designed to be an exception?

Taken from the wiki :
Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor.

notice the word SPEED being first in that line of attributes that come with the class.
You can’t HIT HARD when other professions are so well geared towards disengaging/ confusing / running away if you lack mobility.
A slow, hard hitting, heavy damage taking class is just a damage sponge if it has no means to deliver that damage ( mobility and range) which is EXACTLY what you want to take away from the warrior.

Did you really even think this through?

Yeah, let’s take the Wiki as the gospel:

“Mesmers can create illusions to fight by their side, which they use to harass enemies with phantasms or mislead them with clones. Illusions can also be shattered, destroying them and causing secondary effects, such as confusion, a powerful condition which damages foes as they continue their assault in vain. Their unique attribute increases their Shredding Recharge Rate.”

Confusion got nerfed over and over again, is neglible unless you stack it immensely which only can be done these days via Runes of Perplexity and yet, ironically, other classes are much better at stacking it via those Runes than a Mesmer, and this includes Warriors who can stack it very fast.

In any case…. you want to have (1) speed, (2) strength, (3) toughness, and (4) heavy armour. Where’s the trade-off? I’m all for warriors having speed, but they shouldn’t have heavy defenses then. If you’re want to be a hard-hitting tank, you move slowly. If you want to be hard-hitting and have high mobility, you should have little defensive stats.

Simple as that. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

What warriors don’t have is a class mechanic like stealth/ clones or the ability to support allies.
We don’t have access to protection.
We can’t specialize as well as other classes.
That’s the trade-off.

I think you’re too caught up in the " tank / dps / healer " trinity view of things to realize that this does not apply here.
There was no " hard hitting slow tank " intention when warriors were designed.

phaeris.7604:

Why would you spec for high healing power? You get amazing healing with signet+adrenal, best heal in the game. Uninterruptible healing.

Newsflash!, Every class who specs for high healing power has to give up a damage or defence stat.

Also every class who specs for dps has to give up a defence stat.

Except the warrior!

nope, also warrior.

phaeris.7604:

Regarding conditions, you have the best condition removal ability in the game, 3 conditions every 7 seconds whilst doing damage. No one has anything close to that. If you think conditions are an issue to a warrior just think how they are to absolutely everyone else in the game.

You just throw in 30 defence, 30 discipline 10 anywhere else and you’ve covered all the bases. No need to invest in the power or precision lines! Swap in any weapons, it’s all the same!

First off if you spec like that you definetely have to invest points in power and precision because none of that trait line give you those.
Second you can’t use cleansing ire every 7 seconds unless you go full discipline, also don’t forget you have to land your burst skill and one of the reasons many use the longbow it’s because of combustive shot, have fun trying to remove your conditions using kill shot.

phaeris.7604:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFAUjkOFv5OyQMxBE0DNsK2iThAU9YO2w4A-jECBYfAUBAZmFRjteCtyiIaUXDT5iIq2mrIa1SBYxyI-w

So that’s something i threw together in 5 minutes. That without wvw stacks or wvw buffs.

4k attack, 100 percent crit damage, 50 percent crit chance,20k health, 3k armour.

All Berzerk gear. Look, I haven’t spent a single point in the power line and only 10 in the prec line, yet look at the damage off of that. With the ability to throw out killshots every 7 seconds.

But look at what stats i get if I try to do the same with say…a thief….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmKOncy9E/5Ey2jK0nIKuCOl2DAAAaJA-jECBYfBkKAIzsIas1ToVWERj6aYKXER12cFRrWKALWGB-w

Why look!, Oh yes, nice crit damage, good crit chance, good attack,..but oooh! the armour, only 2284, and only 14k health. It’s almost as if I had to sacrifice something in order to gain something in that template.

And look!, I can only do that huge combo every 45 seconds!. from point blank range, now imagine if I could do that from 1500….like say..killshot!.

But yeah, keep your blinkers on and keep claiming that having a huge base stat disparity yet still have the ability to access ranged weapons isn’t somehow ridiculously overpowered in an mmo. Being able to have huge damage/defence without putting any points into power or precision is the problem, no sacrifice is needed to get your stats.

Which is why you see so many warriors in WvW, it’s an easy forgiving class to play and spec.

I don’t know about wvwvw, but in spvp you have to take out 270 armor from that:

First, You have a fake 100 armor from Thick Skin (100 armor while above 90% health, which won’t last much).

Second, you will end up using Dolyak Signet. This means you’ll lose that 170 pretty fast too.

Take those 2 away, and you have 2647 armor (you didn’t invest 30 points in the defense tree as a thief. I can agree that the fact that everything good is in the defense tree might be wrong, though).

WhiteRose.6934:

mzt.3270:

…Warriors do not need nerfs, they need more love in all honesty…

Ummm…..no.

Ummm…Yes ! Why you scared your easy living mode on a Necro will be cut in half that you actually need to L2P ? :P

Not while Necros have the mass staff damage that they have, warriors need that health tick just to get through the barrage of little red circles, of so many you cannot possibly avoid them due to the cheese build that happens, Warriors perhaps need better passive condition removal to cope with that if anything.

mzt.3270:

WhiteRose.6934:

mzt.3270:

…Warriors do not need nerfs, they need more love in all honesty…

Ummm…..no.

Ummm…Yes ! Why you scared your easy living mode on a Necro will be cut in half that you actually need to L2P ? :P

Not while Necros have the mass staff damage that they have, warriors need that health tick just to get through the barrage of little red circles, of so many you cannot possibly avoid them due to the cheese build that happens, Warriors perhaps need better passive condition removal to cope with that if anything.

WTF how much condi cleanse do you want? Warrior has the best condi cleanse in game (while beeing designed to have the worst 1 year ago).
when do you think is a warrior strong enough against conditions?
When he gets Zero damage or when he gets healed with every tick?

Just as a reminder:
“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.”

from: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

unleashed.8679:

Just as a reminder:
They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). _

This is also hilarious, because they do have better ranged abilities than the ranger. Can you imagine the uproar if you gave the ranged the ability to do a 1500 ranged 14k+ damage ability on a 7sec timer?

I’d take a warrior with longbow over a ranger with longbow any day of the week.

I would do the same, because warrior is just OP and ranger is still broken right now, but I think i shouldn’t say that here

mzt.3270:

WhiteRose.6934:

mzt.3270:

…Warriors do not need nerfs, they need more love in all honesty…

Ummm…..no.

Ummm…Yes ! Why you scared your easy living mode on a Necro will be cut in half that you actually need to L2P ? :P

Not while Necros have the mass staff damage that they have, warriors need that health tick just to get through the barrage of little red circles, of so many you cannot possibly avoid them due to the cheese build that happens, Warriors perhaps need better passive condition removal to cope with that if anything.

I don’t play necro……Have I ever said I played necro? Like ever in my life?

I mean if you’re going to try and insult me based on what class I play at least do your research and insult the right class.

phaeris.7604:

Newsflash!, Every class who specs for high healing power has to give up a damage or defence stat.

Also every class who specs for dps has to give up a defence stat.

Except the warrior!

Thats wrong actually. Guardians don’t have to give up damage for defense either. Valor gives toughness/Critical damage. Valor it actually better than what warriors have toughness/healing power.

phaeris.7604:

unleashed.8679:

Just as a reminder:
They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). _

This is also hilarious, because they do have better ranged abilities than the ranger.

Warriors dont have 1500 range, and the #1 skill on the Ranger does 100% more damage than the warriors bow, and like 300% more damage than the warriors Rifle #1 Also rapid fire is stronger than the warriors volly on the rifle. none of your comments surprise me to be honest a player that doesn’t know these things doesn’t know how to play so obviously you get beat by warriors then come and make false statements on their forum and scream for nerfs.

Warlord.9074:

phaeris.7604:

Newsflash!, Every class who specs for high healing power has to give up a damage or defence stat.

Also every class who specs for dps has to give up a defence stat.

Except the warrior!

Thats wrong actually. Guardians don’t have to give up damage for defense either. Valor gives toughness/Critical damage. Valor it actually better than what warriors have toughness/healing power.

phaeris.7604:

unleashed.8679:

Just as a reminder:
They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). _

This is also hilarious, because they do have better ranged abilities than the ranger.

Warriors dont have 1500 range, and the #1 skill on the Ranger does 100% more damage than the warriors bow, and like 300% more damage than the warriors Rifle #1 Also rapid fire is stronger than the warriors volly on the rifle. none of your comments surprise me to be honest a player that doesn’t know these things doesn’t know how to play so obviously you get beat by warriors then come and make false statements on their forum and scream for nerfs.

Because false statements and crying for nerfs are the way to go on these forums.
Warrior rilfe is a JOKE except for kill shot which is ONLY GOOD FOR SITUATIONAL TROLL BUILDS.

You can NEVER WIN A 1 v 1 with rifle equipped. Ever.
Stop calling it OP. It’s just as OP as any other weapon when hitting a target that is completely oblivious you’re about to do it.
Also – Kill shot is DEAD EASY TO DODGE.

phaeris.7604:

So were going off class descriptions now are we…..

Btw, ive just been watching a group of 3 rifle warriors, 1 guardian and 1 ele tear it up in wvw. It’s all you can do to avoid being hit by 14k killshots, and considering my toughness is 2800, and I have a meaty 15khps, yet my combos do 1/5 of their bar at a time, it is pretty ridiculous.

Even thief backstabs don’t hit me for that much.

Killshot is just crazy in wvw at the moment, it’s a 1500 range death sentence in a zerg. Nothing at that range should hit for that much, especialy from a heavy armour class.Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem.

this.

1. Warriors got the highest toughness/hp in the game while having extremely high damage (It would make more sense if Guardians have the highest toughness/hp in the game since they are “GUARDIANS” and guardians have extremely low hp almost same as an elementalists)

2. Warriors mobility is ridiculous even warrior is HEAVY ARMOR CLASS and they can almost fast as thieves its just bullcrap.

3.Warrior’s healing signet makes warrior extremely tanky just like a zombie its even better than Guardian’s

4. Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem. (THIS IS THE MOST BULLCRAP)

NOW tell me if there’s any other class having 20k+ hp 3k+ armor with extremely high power/attack maintaining high mobility/stuns etc?

MidoriMarch.8067:

NOW tell me if there’s any other class having 20k+ hp 3k+ armor with extremely high power/attack maintaining high mobility/stuns etc?

warriors need high HP because it’s the only way to survive burst damage, your comparison with guardians it’s just silly:
i play guardian and though i have 21k HP (which is low for a warrior but high for a guardian), i have aegis, blinds, blocks, virtues, high protection uptime, retaliation, give all of this stuff to a warrior and you can lower their HP.

BY that logic why don’t elementalists or rangers have high hp, are warriors the only class who are effected by burst damage?

I mean warriors have shield block and endure pain, zerker stance, dolyak signet, their new healing ability, fear me and such.

You have just as many escape abilities as other classes do(as well as the best escape abilities from weapons) as well as naturally high toughness?

Every class has to suffer burst damage, but they have to do it with lower toughness and lower hp.

phaeris.7604:

BY that logic why don’t elementalists or rangers have high hp, are warriors the only class who are effected by burst damage?

I mean warriors have shield block and endure pain, zerker stance, dolyak signet, their new healing ability, fear me and such.

You have just as many escape abilities as other classes do(as well as the best escape abilities from weapons) as well as naturally high toughness?

Every class has to suffer burst damage, but they have to do it with lower toughness and lower hp.

I feel like were talking to our kid who keeps say why about everything. Rangers don’t have high HP because they have pets and superior range. Elementalists don’t have high hp because they have superior ranged damage and aoe, but also have a lot of healing and a lot of the same things guardians have and btw both of these classes have protection which warrior has non of. rangers also have very decent healing if speced right. elementalists have invulnerabilteirs as well and bw beserkers stance and endure pain are not invulnerability skills you can still be cced or take condition of physical damage same with the shield, that has a 3 sec block engineers shield skilla re actually better than warriros and guardians have a lot more blocks even without using a shield. Rampage as one is actually better than dolyack signet and signet of rage combined.

MidoriMarch.8067:

1. Warriors got the highest toughness/hp in the game while having extremely high damage

2. Warriors mobility is ridiculous even warrior is HEAVY ARMOR CLASS and they can almost fast as thieves its just bullcrap.

3.Warrior’s healing signet makes warrior extremely tanky just like a zombie its even better than Guardian’s

4. Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem. (THIS IS THE MOST BULLCRAP)

NOW tell me if there’s any other class having 20k+ hp 3k+ armor with extremely high power/attack maintaining high mobility/stuns etc?

None of your information is right, because its all biased. Everyone knows warriors have the highest base hp in the game, and theres a reason for that too. We sacrifice use of any protection/aegis/regen/reflects/blinds etc. etc. anything of use that a guard is capable of, and we also have very few stuns and KDs compared to how many an ele has. I have seen many more thieves outrun or escape from other classes as compared to warriors, but I guess that dosn’t make headlines. Even eles have waay greater mobility with use of FGS, while warriors have ‘convenient’ yet adequate mobility that u would like to see nerfed.. makes sense. And heal signet.. did u miss the part where I mentioned wars lacked the many things other classes take for granted? I would agree to a HS nerf once they add protection/regen capabilities to warriors. Besides it has many weaknesses as well, for instance huge bursts or poison/bleed stacks both of which prevent HS outheal.

In short your information is incorrect, or at least greatly exaggerated. DPS traited thieves/eles in general do higher dps than similarly traited warriors. Both also have higher mobility than we do. My zerk warrior has 19.8k health and 2.1k armor—the armor at least which is the exact same as on my guard. Maybe you should look up the difference between ‘heavy’ and ‘light’ armor and stop complaining. I could go to thief forums and rant about an upcoming nerf to stealth and insane burst dps based on similar information that u have provided.

Keep telling yourselves it’s your amazing skill that makes you good with a a warrior, yet with other classes you appear to be extremely mediocre…

How do u mean? Its basically just a measure of how ‘experienced’ u are with the mechanics of a class. For instance, I can output more dps on my ele than on my war in most cases. I am also downed more often on my ele, this is true.. its also mainly due to a lack of not being a ‘heavy’, as I am more squishy in full zerker gear and cannot afford to make as many mistakes. This is just the difference of ‘heavy’ and ‘light’ armor as I mentioned, hence the ‘naturally’ higher toughness.. this has nothing to do with skill and u know it. Thus you should feel no need to enter it into the discussion.

phaeris.7604:

Keep telling yourselves it’s your amazing skill that makes you good with a a warrior, yet with other classes you appear to be extremely mediocre…

Truth “some” other classes are harder to play than warriors because the profession mechanics they use that make them better than warriors require more skill and brain power to use.

However if a skilled player with a smart build goes against a warrior the warrior does not have the upper hand vs most of the other professions minus probably ranger.

One of warriors strengths is the ability to kill noobs with efficiency. Which is why we have threads like this. Pretty much every class except maybe rangers if played skillfully and has a good build that can counter warriors can face roll a warrior. But if you are the exception to that chances are a warrior will beat you unless it is a noob warrior that doesn’t know how to build and play which is most warriors since its a flavor of the month kinda thing.

Actually PU mes is the flavor of the month but lets not get into that.

the devs did say eles have the highest skill ceiling !
there for u need to have the best grasp of game mechanics to play them well ! comes with the roll that element needs more skill than a war to be good.. saying a war needs more skill than a element is like saying a stop sign says go !

element is a good class but u REALLY need to under stand how to use your skills to the max to be good
and i am not saying war does not take skill …. there is LOT of bad wars
some wars r like gods just slapping u around

What a dumb point to simply say “you must be a noob if you can’t kill a warrior”. Please don’t tell me that the new warrior reasoning for avoiding nerfs is “we kill noobs” easily. Every class does. That is hardly shows balance or imbalance. Plenty of extremely good players in other classes agreeing that the warrior is OP. Probably a lot of non good players saying the same thing.

I think it is fair to say, that no other MMO gives warriors access to as many traits, weapons and defensive abilities for good reason. It is fair to say that no other MMO would allow one class to have such high population relative to other classes without hitting it on that reason alone (to encourage class diversity)!

At this point, I think ANet has heard plenty from both sides. I was hoping the community would be more forthcoming and suggest where they thought the source of their being a unbalanced came from is and what they would suggest wouldn’t break the class to change. Many did take up that call. Not unsurprisingly, there were plenty who want to keep all their shiny baubles.

So be it. This thread has served its purpose whether you are for warriors being brought to par or think they are closer. That being said, I don’t know what more can be said. Some will agree. Others won’t.

Give warriors blinds/stealth/defensive boons/teleports and you can nerf their armor and health. The thing is those kinds of things take skill to use defensively, and most people dont know how. however if you can skillfully use them they are much more powerful than some extra armor or health would give you. This is why warrior is the easiest class to pick up and get the hang of. Because we dont have any of those that you have actively use for defense. All weve got is our armor and health regen. Thats why warrior will always look better on paper, because its not easy to see the defense that those things give you in actual combat.

First off, I do my best to stay off these forums as much as possible. I don’t like to read the vague misinformed blabbing.

I made it half way through the first page before this topic became difficult to even believe some of these responses are coming from warriors.

I haven’t mained warrior since I was a new born (exaggerating of course). I feel that’s how some warriors act and it makes them feel entitled to this balance disaster because they CHOSE to stand by a profession in poor shape and somehow now Anet is repaying a debt to you for your suffering? What’s the deal?

I started a bunch of characters trying to find a good profession. Coming from more conventional mmo combat systems, getting use to dodging was quite awkward. I ended up choosing warrior after trying virtually every class except ranger. I chose warrior because it was simple, it was good damage and good defense. It was an excellent class to learn the mechanics of the game. It took me time to get into gw2 pvp, especially since I originally had an infatuation with GS despite the fact it wasn’t the best, nor was I. I eventually transitioned to the brain dead M/S and hammer. Quickly getting bored and more veteran players really stomping the inherent predictable nature of the spec. I transitioned to the infamous hambow at its initial up roar of complaints. I once was on the other side of this post defending HS and hambow IGNORANTLY at that. It felt okay and balanced, however, I was a sub-par warrior at the time and no experience in other professions. As dec 10 balance notes were released, my reaction was I better find something else. I went to the even more brain dead condi warrior with exceptionally high healing to damage. The ONLY and I mean only profession that was able to kill me, burst D/P thief because I invested in healing instead of toughness or vitality. I was okay with that because I was and am still able to massacre every other class in the game without any effort; even warriors. Most condi warriors were so bad I would wait for their F1 before I blew mine so I could immediately condi clear and use them as toilet paper. 9/10 warriors are absolute garbage. I am no expert warrior, I simply learned to play an already exceptional build at a higher skill cap than the average warrior. I am not gloating, at this point gloating about a condi warrior is about the same as gloating about killing a up leveled Ele in WvW in a zerg. Not a single class outside of thief can out dps my passive ability to heal.

The point of wasting my time telling you my life story about guildwars is, I was as clueless and frankly indirectly as ignorant about the professions. While I became very efficient at warrior and spent over 1000 hours playing it, I was still ignorant to my own class not knowing what it was like to face a warrior. I actually got sickly bored of slaughtering the map often able to take on 2v1. My condi burst is so insane if I got the average player to blow their condi clears and went for a full reapplication of condi. From there, its a mud slide on the receiving end. My bleed damage ticking for 2k a second not including auto attacks and with imobs coming from traits and abilities, there is really nothing a lot of classes can do to get out. Guardians are seriously my only challenge to keep condi’s on and when its challenging, it means they are hoping back up is coming before I bleed them out slowly because their damage is so pitiful healing signet makes my health seem like he’s tickling me.

So yes, I just smashed condi warriors like no one’s business. I played it, still do when I get some extremely sub-par solo Q’s who need a heavy to carry some of the dead weight.

Going through some of what I read, in just the first page. Standard warrior vs. mesmer complaints. WHY?! Mesmers will flee with their nuts up to their chest vs a good warrior. Avoid the shatters and find the real mesmer and they stand no chance. See clones making a run for you? Dodge! Want to find the real mesmer, if he isn’t a stealth build. It’s typically very easy, look for the one that’s actually moving. The best mesmers actually move less. Another tip, mitigate their damage with GS (one of the most commonly used mesmer weapons) by getting IN THEIR FACE. Read their weapons tool tip, it’s optimal at distances, not in close combat. Anyone who isn’t playing with other classes to find WEAKNESS is failing themselves because that is simply the nature of excelling in a game. You’re all complaining about telegraphed abilities, kill shot for example. “Whaa, it’s overly telegraphed and easy to dodge.” or “They are cheese mode to kill because they are zerker.” These are two sad defenses for an ability that is a GUARANTEED hit if they don’t dodge. Also, whether a warrior is easy to kill is not determined by their build, it’s determined by skill alone. If you feel like just because your abilities are telegraphed, it’s justifiable, you need to know the feeling of an overly telegraphed ground target ability that does HALF the damage that most people walk out of, they don’t even waste the dodge.

Right now, warriors are in a terrible state of OP. Their strengths in almost complete disregard to weapon choice is effective. Axe/Shield, Axe/Mace, Mace/Shield, Sword/Shield, Sword/Sword, Greatsword, Hammer, Longbow, and Rifle! All very good choices and very effective, the most versatile set of weapons and all effective. If one of you comes at me with a “But Greatsword is…” go look up Anastasis Tactis. Extremely exceptional Greatsword warrior making that weapon effective to its max potential at rank 10 in soloQ. There are great variations of just about every class and weapon set where someone is proving the community wrong with skill and knowledge of the game.

Survivability is absurd at minimum. HS active should be completely reworked to something closer to thief or ele where you have to work for your heals. Not run away to help reset some of your HP passively and so quickly and effectively that 10 seconds of running and you have probably rejuvenated more than the average professions healing ability that would otherwise be on a 30 second CD and not even considering you were receiving those heals during the fight before you took off running so your passive could pick you back up. Effective? Extremely! Fair, not a chance. You should work for your “passive” heal at least.

Do I expect Anet to do anything I say or anything anyone else says to warrior? No. It’s clear Anet is in a spot where they seem to have no idea what balance is or where it is. These minor tweaks will probably continue through future patches until warrior falls down the food chain and someone else becomes the problem. It’s the nature of the beast and it’s all MMO’s.

I would say Anet should be using the point system like the original poster stated. It’s fair, it’s truly

what balance is and every class needs a counter. While warriors have maybe one good counter aside from a better warrior.

Last, stop saying warriors aren’t chosen in teamQ. You are all full of it. Warrior is on nearly every competitive team that has any success in what this game calls e-sports. What kind of warrior?! Hambow! Yes, it’s still that viable in team fights despite all you yoloQ’ers thinking you have experienced all this game has to offer as if you should be hired as a developer.

Warlord.9074:

nothing you said made any sense and I read it. warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game. This is a profession that is meant to facetank and do high melee DPS because it is a warrior. Look up warrior in the dictionary and that is the definition of a warrior. There is nothing wrong with warriors they are exactly how they should be there is a bunch of problems with the other professions ranger is one of them. How about you guys accept the fact that warriors are warriors and ask ANET to fix your other classes. And stop making useless threads asking for anet to nerf warriors because your class is broken and is underpowered.

I couldn’t agree more. Mesmers, Warriors, Guardians…they aren’t overpowered – other classes are just simply underpowered and cannot pull off any essential task all that well. It reminds me of how Guild Wars 1 ended with Necromancers and Ritualists being vastly overpowered than other classes because every other class was hopelessly underpowered by comparison.

The solutions are:

1) Bring every class up to speed so they can actually do well.

2) Nerf every class to being useless.

I prefer #1.

hannah mee.7925:

Warlord.9074:

nothing you said made any sense and I read it. warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game. This is a profession that is meant to facetank and do high melee DPS because it is a warrior. Look up warrior in the dictionary and that is the definition of a warrior. There is nothing wrong with warriors they are exactly how they should be there is a bunch of problems with the other professions ranger is one of them. How about you guys accept the fact that warriors are warriors and ask ANET to fix your other classes. And stop making useless threads asking for anet to nerf warriors because your class is broken and is underpowered.

I couldn’t agree more. Mesmers, Warriors, Guardians…they aren’t overpowered – other classes are just simply underpowered and cannot pull off any essential task all that well. It reminds me of how Guild Wars 1 ended with Necromancers and Ritualists being vastly overpowered than other classes because every other class was hopelessly underpowered by comparison.

The solutions are:

1) Bring every class up to speed so they can actually do well.

2) Nerf every class to being useless.

I prefer #1.

3) give every class a weakness, so they have to invest alot of their traitpoints (not 20) if they want to get rid of it

This would then include, nerf readjust warrior, fix other classes and balance them somewhere in the middle.

phaeris.7604:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFAUjkOFv5OyQMxBE0DNsK2iThAU9YO2w4A-jECBYfAUBAZmFRjteCtyiIaUXDT5iIq2mrIa1SBYxyI-w

So that’s something i threw together in 5 minutes. That without wvw stacks or wvw buffs.

4k attack, 100 percent crit damage, 50 percent crit chance,20k health, 3k armour.

All Berzerk gear. Look, I haven’t spent a single point in the power line and only 10 in the prec line, yet look at the damage off of that. With the ability to throw out killshots every 7 seconds.

But look at what stats i get if I try to do the same with say…a thief….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmKOncy9E/5Ey2jK0nIKuCOl2DAAAaJA-jECBYfBkKAIzsIas1ToVWERj6aYKXER12cFRrWKALWGB-w

Why look!, Oh yes, nice crit damage, good crit chance, good attack,..but oooh! the armour, only 2284, and only 14k health. It’s almost as if I had to sacrifice something in order to gain something in that template.

And look!, I can only do that huge combo every 45 seconds!. from point blank range, now imagine if I could do that from 1500….like say..killshot!.

But yeah, keep your blinkers on and keep claiming that having a huge base stat disparity yet still have the ability to access ranged weapons isn’t somehow ridiculously overpowered in an mmo. Being able to have huge damage/defence without putting any points into power or precision is the problem, no sacrifice is needed to get your stats.

Which is why you see so many warriors in WvW, it’s an easy forgiving class to play and spec.

….Did ….did you just build a warrior that will cost the average player about 800g….over 1000 hours of gameplay between WvW and PvE
With a WvW infusions to boost Vitality…..

by the way you are shy of the 3k mark

Warlord.9074:

nothing you said made any sense and I read it. warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game. This is a profession that is meant to facetank and do high melee DPS because it is a warrior. Look up warrior in the dictionary and that is the definition of a warrior. There is nothing wrong with warriors they are exactly how they should be there is a bunch of problems with the other professions ranger is one of them. How about you guys accept the fact that warriors are warriors and ask ANET to fix your other classes. And stop making useless threads asking for anet to nerf warriors because your class is broken and is underpowered.

Warrior needs a big nerf, the class is way too much overpowered in PVE
Warrior needs following nerfs :

Hundred blades needs way longer cooldown and do less damage
Force warriors to use their other skills instead of just greatsword skill #1 and #2
Make zerker warriors as squishy as zerker elementalists
Make pure zerker warrior groups fail in dungeons/fractals

I believe the greatest mistake was when ANEt went too far in giving warriors the ability to deal with conditions. (Initially, conditions just chewed thru a warrior).

I would significantly nerf their ability to avoid condition damage. That would be a fair weakness.

Bombsaway.7198:

I believe the greatest mistake was when ANEt went too far in giving warriors the ability to deal with conditions. (Initially, conditions just chewed thru a warrior).

I would significantly nerf their ability to avoid condition damage. That would be a fair weakness.

NO!!!

the issue with the warrior is one that is easy to fix the main issue lies with cleansing ire and the ability to easily abuse it. this is not something that is a warrior only issue. engi’s have had a lot of issues such as these fixed already and getting another one fixed in this patch.

(shotguning allowing for 1 min posion)

the only thing that need to be done would be to give ire a icd for the cleanse that is the ONLY thing that will fix what so many are throwing a fit out. with that said I have yet to run into a warrior abusing this skill and I’ve been doing loads of tourneys ran into a team of hammer wars and my team just trampled them so bad that the ranger on my said he was more op then them (responding to a comment I made)

warriors are a pretty balanced class over all yes they will be tweaks yes they are ways to abuse the profession but lest we forget the upcoming nerf to engis posion and perm stealth thieves. even then the war I’m talking would only be a issue in pvp at point defense and zergs in wvw. (poor roamer though)

I’ve seen suggestions that either make the issue WORSE or just ignore it so I’m going to give my piece. moving ire to grandmaster will not work infact it will make it worse. what happens when you give a warrior like that spiked armor you make it a hell of a lot harder on you.

the access to cleanse is perfectly fine as is and in all honesty will likely see no major changes.

your suggestion is typical of someone who does not know what a warrior job is nor what anet has done. profession skills are meant to make them better at doing their job they condition heavy environment means warriors need extra cleanse. why does a engi not have stable i’ll ask you this why do they need it. a good engi does not stand still it does not face tank you chug nades at 1500 inflict insane condtions or use your combo fields which you can oh so easily spam to support you allies you should not be up close and personal with a engi same with a necro.

ele has the highest skill cap and burst in the game with moves such as flame grab being OHKOs to squishy chars and with no warning mind you. to make up for this they got a lower health pool and huge cds.

zerk stance well how about we look at eles who got a trait that makes them immune to conditons at over 90% health.

gaurdians have lower dps and are worse bunkers.

bs

warriors for the most part only have their health and regain to counter dps they literally tank everything.

some people thnk saying we don’t have stealth clones etc are being kittenes or sarcastic BUT THEY ARE RIGHT warriors class mechanic is 1 skill per weapon set some of which are not worth using.

kill shot hts for 17k …it’s a 2 second cast time obvious easy to counter if it catches a squishy off guard well anything catching you off guard is going to be deadly you didn’t pay atten you paid for it. I’m sorry if you die to kill shot but a skill shouldn’t be nerfed just cause you didn’t pay attention esp if A. skill is a class mechanic B. has a 2 sec cast time is obvious as hell.

zerk stance really is op? ok when I first leanred about it it wrecked me I’m a condition warrior now just kite dodge move for 8 seconds then just kill. it doesn’t remove conditions just stops new ones from being applied and even then only TO A POINT.

I got side swipped by a war in a tourney and he massacred me because I didn’t see him come from behind. guess what I ran back found him eventually and slaughtered him.

our health ok we got a big health pool we also only get endure pain zerk stance shield stance as damage mitigation. no protection not aegishave to heavily invest in defense to get any access to retaliation. we get 1 blind 1 measly blind and that’s on a 15 second cd. this is ofc not counting specific weapons needed to mitigate damage. (which is a pretty dam poor excuse if your going to tell me use a shield or sword to block)

by comparison

guardians has line of warding great protection up time blinds wall of reflections (use this on a kill shot warrior and see how op kill shot really is) loads of conditions cleanses

thieves evades mobility unlike a warrior they can tele port kind less preditctable and not affected by cripples chill blinds and lets not forget what they do best stealth. (not to mention spam)

necros 2 life bars for a max of 170% of their lp. they have access to more protection then a warrior and are notorious for their conditions.

engi
spamable water fields + regen. I literally was at clove hooven pass and kepts a necros minions alive ALL OF THEM . through a 5 minute event. these are weak fragle creatures tht do not heal. if a engi is going to support you can bet it’s going to be nasty with access to spamable water posion fire smoke and light fields and spammable blast finshers. which is aoe heal aoe might aoe stealth aoe cleanse aoe weakness. engis have insane potential to keep condtions on a opponent.

ele has access to various defensive skills via its attunements

memser stealth clones headache irl not really a better form of mitigation then confusing you opponent.

lets not forget healing sig I’m tired of seeing omg op healing sig. with the a side potential to abused cleansing ire the sigs not all many make it up to be. seriously keep posion up and just demolish them. their heal is their passive!.

movement I see this along with warrior shouldn’t out dps gaurds.

this is bull it’s obvious warriors are more dps oriented gaurds are more support oriented. is warriors dps too high well if so then fine nerf it but they will nerf the guards and such in line with it for the sake of balance.

just to post a specific comment made by a lead designer of anet.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Merged-PvP-Warrior-Healing-Signet-is-Too-Powerful/page/2

go to page 2 where jonpeter himself says they will only tweak the heal after they make the active worth using. I’d almost wager that once healing sigs tweaks are done then healing sig will still be called op.

as far as war banner is concerned bombs it’s fine you res 5 people not exactly a warrior only ability. although it is a elite so it is stronger. give 4 stacks of might furry and swiftness while in the radius of the banner. people (including you to a point) are making mountains over mole hills.

you are obviously stuck in the idea of other mmos form of balance gw2 is not other mmorpgs infact gw2 has done away with many things that are in other mmos. the balance in gw2 works very differently then your typical mmo which obviously from all your comments your so dead set on comparing gw2s balance too. sadly if you are so deadest on warriors reciving some sort of major nerf to their armor sustain hp or damage your going to be greatly disappointed.

forget sig healing surge heals way more and is easier to use to it’s fullest. same for mend the skill which I personally use. are we realy going to have to deal with this while people grasp for straws for the sole intent of maliciously ruining the warrior profession?