Guild Wars 2

the hammer is the most telegraphed weapon.i have no problem dodging the attacks especially with ranged classes, and if I do get hit by the cc chain its easy to get out of or negate. ie: stun breakers,blinds,blink/shadowstep/infi strike, distortion….etc. hammer is indeed powerful if hit by the whole cc chain but your just bad if you do. this is indeed a l2p issue. hammer SHOULD NOT be nerfed…whats your opinion on warrior hammer?

My opinion is it is not “easy.” If it was in fact easy I would agree with any nerfs, but since i do not agree that it is easy, I do not agree with ANET

well too bad for you guys. it is indeed op. it may be really strong in 1v1 situation but not op, but in group situations it gets exponentially overpowered.

hammer really isn’t OP, though I am not opposed to some of the hammer damage being toned down.

Jae.5138:

well too bad for you guys. it is indeed op. it may be really strong in 1v1 situation but not op, but in group situations it gets exponentially overpowered.

FYI Anything grouped into a power zerg train is OP.

In 1vs1 situations it is even OP, just bring more CC than your enemy dodge rolls and you will get caught in the chain. I have seen plenty of duels, enemy keeps out and dodges perfectly, than he runs out and gets smacked by hits of 5k+.

No the damage was out of line with the amount of CC it dealt and only 2 skills get nerfed. I think they did a nice job balancing the hammer out.

MilkZz that is only true vs another profession who only has dodge mechanics. Or another player who is only using dodge mechanics. But there are more ways to negate damage than dodging.

You say the damage is out of line but I played a warrior since open beta and as far as I am aware the only changes that were made to hammers is some of the skills had there animations smoothed out so that the hammer skills casted slightly faster. No change was ever made to the Burst skill.

So to say this I think is out of line with the history of the hammer because it was never complained about before. People are blaming the hammer for somthing that is happening that is not caused by the hammer.

MiLkZz.4789:

In 1vs1 situations it is even OP, just bring more CC than your enemy dodge rolls and you will get caught in the chain. I have seen plenty of duels, enemy keeps out and dodges perfectly, than he runs out and gets smacked by hits of 5k+.

No the damage was out of line with the amount of CC it dealt and only 2 skills get nerfed. I think they did a nice job balancing the hammer out.

Blinds shut down a hammer warrior effectively, chilled and cripple also work pretty well. Most of the time they can be kited pretty effectively. A well timed block, invulnerability, and stability can ruin Hammer CC burst chain. Those who think that Hammer is OP really need to L2P.

It is a slow a predictable weapon, the only real way to kill anyone with it is to lock them down and burst them to death. Now they are taking that burst away, CC without any good DPS is just an annoying easy kill, this is what the hammer warrior will become.

Massive dmg + massive cc’s dont fits together, accept it.

Hammer is a control weapon. Why should it have a dps focus too?

Necrotize.2974:

Hammer is a control weapon. Why should it have a dps focus too?

Why should a control weapon be a weapon?

Warlord.9074:

Necrotize.2974:

Hammer is a control weapon. Why should it have a dps focus too?

Why should a control weapon be a weapon?

…
To give warriors a method of CC and a hard counter to long channels…

Plus the alternative would be just making all weapons pure dps and having no control effects whatsoever so everyone essentially does the exact same thing just with different animations.

Black Teagan.9215:

Massive dmg + massive cc’s dont fits together, accept it.

I have, that is why I have retired my Hammer build (that I have been playing since Nov 2012) and am working on making another build that suits my play style. I am however still going to protest against this change to the hammer.

I play warrior as a main and I agree it’s OP, using berserker amulet it does massive damage and CC at the same time, not to mention that traited with Burst Mastery is even more powerful. So yes, needs to be toned down.

ednaralva.2910:

I play warrior as a main and I agree it’s OP, using berserker amulet it does massive damage and CC at the same time, not to mention that traited with Burst Mastery is even more powerful. So yes, needs to be toned down.

But the changes they are bringing is quite a bit more then just a tone down. If it is OP in PvP then nerf it for PvP. It has never been OP in WvW or PvE so why nerf the kitten out of it there.

Julie Yann.5379:

ednaralva.2910:

I play warrior as a main and I agree it’s OP, using berserker amulet it does massive damage and CC at the same time, not to mention that traited with Burst Mastery is even more powerful. So yes, needs to be toned down.

But the changes they are bringing is quite a bit more then just a tone down. If it is OP in PvP then nerf it for PvP. It has never been OP in WvW or PvE so why nerf the kitten out of it there.

Point taken, forgot to say that is my opinion from a hardcore pvper. So yes, only for pvp although many people complain that’s OP in wvw too but I can’t give my opinion there because I don’t wvw much.

lethotix.2973:

the hammer is the most telegraphed weapon.i have no problem dodging the attacks especially with ranged classes, and if I do get hit by the cc chain its easy to get out of or negate. ie: stun breakers,blinds,blink/shadowstep/infi strike, distortion….etc. hammer is indeed powerful if hit by the whole cc chain but your just bad if you do. this is indeed a l2p issue. hammer SHOULD NOT be nerfed…whats your opinion on warrior hammer?

What is the cast time on the hammer? How many spell effects are going off at the time… Are you in the middle of pressing another key.

Julie Yann.5379:

It has never been OP in WvW or PvE

WvW means different situations. Sure, in a zerg so many things are happening at the same time and a hammer warrior might not be considered OP but in small group roaming or solo roaming you basically end up in the same situation as in PvP.

Hammer is not op. Broken traits make it op.

Zanshin.5379:

Julie Yann.5379:

It has never been OP in WvW or PvE

WvW means different situations. Sure, in a zerg so many things are happening at the same time and a hammer warrior might not be considered OP but in small group roaming or solo roaming you basically end up in the same situation as in PvP.

5 thieves or mesmers could dispose of 5 hammer warriors fairly efficiently and for solo roaming we have builds that are way stronger than the Hammer yet no one QQ’s about those. Hammer was never very good for solo play. It was just slightly above average.

I’m so disappointed with what they are doing to Hammer.
It’s a really stupid move.

People complained about Hammer being able to CC so much. It has two Knockdowns, 1 Knockback and a root if you trait Cripple to Immobilize. So why on earth are you removing damage?

I love Hammer animations, and I’ve been using it on my Warrior since I started. The damage was already lower than GS, but I chose to continue using it because I had such love for it. Now that the damage is being lowered by a stupid amount I fear I’m going to have to end up using GS.

Hammer has too much CC, either remove them, or implement a debuff that means players can’t be stun locked.

I garauntee you, people will still complain about hammer. All they have done is lower the damage, you can still stun lock an opponent. And as tough as Warriors are to kill at the moment, you are still inevitably going to win. Even more so, all it takes is 2 people, 1 to stun lock and the other to beat on them for free.

Mark my words, people WILL still complain about hammer being OP.

It is OP.

In 1v1 its fine, infact its pretty bad, because people can see and dodge attacks.
In small scale team fights its fine, because people can see and dodge attacks.

In zerg fights its insane, because all you need to do it spam more warriors to get perma-stun, huge damage, endless blast finishers, and that is pretty much all thats involved.

Cufufalating.8479:

It is OP.

In 1v1 its fine, infact its pretty bad, because people can see and dodge attacks.
In small scale team fights its fine, because people can see and dodge attacks.

In zerg fights its insane, because all you need to do it spam more warriors to get perma-stun, huge damage, endless blast finishers, and that is pretty much all thats involved.

^
Although the damage nerf seems weird to me. The amount of CC is the bigger problem imo.

The hammer is a CC weapon. If you want to do dmg then use the GS.

Its stupid to think, all weapons are just created for dmg.

For the argument that a CC weapon should not have damage as well, since the point of the weapon is to CC. If a bee has no stinger it is worse than annoying, it is useless. It is also dead.

Black Teagan.9215:

The hammer is a CC weapon. If you want to do dmg then use the GS.

Its stupid to think, all weapons are just created for dmg.

All weapons are not created for damage but to have a lack of damage on any weapon is simply ridiculous. Did the hammer do too much damage? Yes it did, but it wasn’t the hammer itself, it was the Merciless Hammer trait. You can effectively have 35% increased damage by going into strength for 30 points and 20 points into defense (40% for weakened foes, and 45% if you are using a superior sigil of force) when you are chain CC’ing an opponent. This would not be so over powered if you didn’t only have to go 20 points into a defensive line for this. The hammer was fine where it was, as no one complained about it before. Only when healing signet came into play did people complain. Think about it, Healing Signet is buffed tremendously when your opponent is CC’d as you are healing while doing even more damage. So the combination of Healing Signet, CC combined with easily accessible damage increase, does make for a truly terrifying opponent. BUT this is no fault of the hammer.

Black Teagan.9215:

Massive dmg + massive cc’s dont fits together, accept it.

This. It is justified. You all know it.
It isnt op if you are running some pvt or clerics shout healing build. But if you were running a melee train with pvt or clerics, I have bad news for you…

What blows my mind is how they are not touching healing Sig…

hammer is not OP , healing signet is . Too much free sustain without investing into healing power

lethotix.2973:

the hammer is the most telegraphed weapon.i have no problem dodging the attacks especially with ranged classes, and if I do get hit by the cc chain its easy to get out of or negate. ie: stun breakers,blinds,blink/shadowstep/infi strike, distortion….etc. hammer is indeed powerful if hit by the whole cc chain but your just bad if you do. this is indeed a l2p issue. hammer SHOULD NOT be nerfed…whats your opinion on warrior hammer?

Shadow Return is no longer relevant as of tomorrow and it used to be the main thing that allowed S/D thieves to engage warriors. The general complaints I’ve heard about the hammer isn’t the damage or the telegraphs, but the rate at which the warrior can use one the weapon’s CCs. More specifically, the hammer can allegedly be used so frequently that it can simple spam its CCs until the opponent is out of escape options then start the CC chains. On top of that the warrior was able to build tanky and still deal high damage.

I don’t get why they’re nerfing the damage. that was never the problem. Its the insane amount of cc. It would have been better to nerf all the cc and leave the damage. But I guess Anet wants to make it a pure control weapon. The fact is, no class has enough dodges, stunbreaks, or stability to escape all the cc hammer puts out on relatively low cooldowns. They will run out of ways to avoid the damage quickly and you will kill them eventually. That was the problem with it. They’re nerfing the wrong thing. Damage doesn’t need to be toned down, cooldowns for the cc should be increased and duration of the effects should be reduced. Then it would be fine. I agree with Zach, people WILL still complain. Its because they aren’t doing anything to address the real issue with the hammer.

Eh the problem is that the hammer crowds out arena nets predefined weapon for control… the mace.

Sadly instead of looking for ways to buff the mace, they took the easy road out and nerfed its direct competitor. Worst part is hammer is still more viable than mace in most zerg situations which is were it saw the most use. 1v1 usage was mainly used in sPvP where any and all balance touches to the weapon should have happened. Not globally. Again something they said they had the ability and were willing to do separate balance for sPvP / WvW / PvE.

Shield Bash (3k) → Staggering Blow (5k) →Earthshaker (5k) → Backbreaker (5k) → Fierce Blow (5k)

This combo deals huge damage even for non-zerker warriors. And its not that easy to break out of this combo with stun breakers alone. Sure its easy with stability but not every profession has great access to stability like warriors do.

My main is a warrior and I’m totally fine with the proposed damage nerf.

Really?

Having an aoe 2 second stun leap atttack which does 4k+damage, is ground targetted, and is up every 7 seconds on a very tanky class isn’t op’d?

Really??

When I go 1v1 with a hammer warrior on my thief, the name of the game is just don’t get hit. If you miss just one dodge or c+d the hammer chain can take you from 100-0 in a 3-4 swings. A class with that much durability should only be putting out those numbers when it specs a zerker build, not when it can spec toughness and wear pvt.

They only people that it matters to convince… aren’t convinced. .

I’m betting the best of the Hammer Warrior players out there will still make it look easy mopping the floor with the rest of us after tomorrow’s patch .

Noobs still gonna get facerolled. They just moves up UF (no big deal) and reduced 20% damage on 2 skills inst a big deal either as everyone claims it to be.

The QQ about warriors will continue till we become a freekill, actually spvp forum has a thread about condi war, what next? Axe 1 OP?

Warrior hammer has been consistently buffed for a few patches:
1) The aftercast delay was significantly lowered on several of the hammer skills, which now allows spamming of stuns/knockdowns. This was not possible before since each skill rooted you for for up to 0.75s after use and prevented other skills from being used. Reducing after cast increased DPS quite a bit.
2) Before buffs, hammer shock was only usable while stationary making it difficult to hit moving targets
3) Before buffs, staggering blow was only usable while stationary, making it very hard to hit moving targets.

With these very large buffs, the weapon moved from a tactical CC weapon to an aoe cc/stun-spam noob weapon. The fix to damage is definitely justified at this point. I personally would prefer the weapon skills to be reverted to their old state and for the damage to be kept where it currently is. I dislike how spammy the weapon has become. It used to take skill to use.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Noobs still gonna get facerolled. They just moves up UF (no big deal) and reduced 20% damage on 2 skills inst a big deal either as everyone claims it to be.

The QQ about warriors will continue till we become a freekill, actually spvp forum has a thread about condi war, what next? Axe 1 OP?

Axe 1 WAS OP, and it was nerfed a while ago. Now most of the damage is on the last hit of the combo. If you miss that hit, you do awful DPS. Before it was consistently high throughout the entire chain.

phaeris.7604:

Really?

Having an aoe 2 second stun leap atttack which does 4k+damage, is ground targetted, and is up every 7 seconds on a very tanky class isn’t op’d?

Really??

When I go 1v1 with a hammer warrior on my thief, the name of the game is just don’t get hit. If you miss just one dodge or c+d the hammer chain can take you from 100-0 in a 3-4 swings. A class with that much durability should only be putting out those numbers when it specs a zerker build, not when it can spec toughness and wear pvt.

In WvW if a thief dies to a hammer warrior, he seriously need to L2P. Blind is the hammer’s biggest weakness. Avoid shadow refuge if you can, you are just a sitting duck in one of those and like you said, avoid getting locked down.

The hammer itself is not OP. Like it has be said, it’s the traits which stack together that make it OP. Taking a good look at the proposed nerfs, it is clear that Anet is reacting to the PvP Hambow which deals a ridiculous amount of punishment. I guess it easier to destroy the build than to fix it.

Kharr.5746:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Noobs still gonna get facerolled. They just moves up UF (no big deal) and reduced 20% damage on 2 skills inst a big deal either as everyone claims it to be.

The QQ about warriors will continue till we become a freekill, actually spvp forum has a thread about condi war, what next? Axe 1 OP?

Axe 1 WAS OP, and it was nerfed a while ago. Now most of the damage is on the last hit of the combo. If you miss that hit, you do awful DPS. Before it was consistently high throughout the entire chain.

I do not rebember anyone that was complains about axe aa before, but if u know any thread about axe 1 being op back then, link it. As far i know it was nerfed for no reason without any compensation.

That single nerf made axe a joke in general, aa and evi was everything that axe had, now it olny got evi. Cyclone axe and throw axe are a complete joke in current form, so does axe as ppl can facetank aa now.

Reason why ppl tend to run hammer is bc its the olny real viable weapon we got behind longbow. What else we have?

-A gs with weak auto, worse possible burst and 3.5 casttime that need secondary source to land it? Nty, im not going to be forced into a specific offhand/work around 1 skill to make it works bc devs been thinking its cool idea to put the whole damage in one skill that need hard cc to land.

-Sword? Flurry has no damage in power builds, at least if it was buffed i could see some pressure going from that weapon. 1 has similiar dps to axe counting bleeds but thats about it, gl getting someone under 50% hp with sword and even thena slow motion final thrust says hi

-Rifle? Everyone knows how bad it is, used olny some trolling in wvw.

-Mace? Skull crack getting nerfed, a kittene. AA is slow and weak, counterblow is clunky and block olny 1 hit no matter if ranged or not, pummel is used as a intterupt as it has no damage whatsoever. Also the mace as a whole has no cripple/gap closer..nothing

-And the last one is axe. No cc, no gap closer, just pure damage nerfed into ground with 0 and again 0 compensation not even a given reason as to why it was nerfed in first place. If thats the balance id say thx and bb to another game.. Oh well actually playing Vindictus and i have much more fun.

My precious charr warrior,

6 The irony is, in that first screen shot, the guy who said they nerfed hammer was using a hammer. :P js

Julie Yann.5379:

In WvW if a thief dies to a hammer warrior, he seriously need to L2P. Blind is the hammer’s biggest weakness. Avoid shadow refuge if you can, you are just a sitting duck in one of those and like you said, avoid getting locked down.

The hammer itself is not OP. Like it has be said, it’s the traits which stack together that make it OP. Taking a good look at the proposed nerfs, it is clear that Anet is reacting to the PvP Hambow which deals a ridiculous amount of punishment. I guess it easier to destroy the build than to fix it.

Oh how I love that style of answering. If a hammer warrior dies to a thief he seriously need to L2P. See how easy that is?. Can’t beat me? l2P! it’s obviously you!.
I don’t really need to argue as Anet themselves have said the hammer delivers too much damage for a Control based weapon.

I bet if they suddenly upped static field damage to 4k on an elementalist there’d be an uproar! Or lowered the cooldown from 40 seconds to 7 seconds….

Adrenaline regen is so much that your F1 abilities are basically a 6th ability on a 7 sec cooldown(with trait). If earthshaker were an actual ability no way would it be that low of a cooldown. It’d be on a 30-40 second timer at least and 1/4 of the damage.

If you find post patch you’re not as effective the hammer was op and you’re a bad player. If you still find you’re effective then you’d be a good player with whatever weapon set.

But honestly though, a thief has a huge advantage against a hammer warrior due to the amount of evades, stealth skills and also a few stunbreaks if you do get hit. Also blinds.

Condition thief builds can also pick them apart without even getting close.

ronpierce.2760

6 The irony is, in that first screen shot, the guy who said they nerfed hammer was using a hammer. :P js

Yes he is He nerfed that hammer he was wielding wanted to trade it with mine lolz.
But i refused,….He was a thief disguised as a warrior.

I’m Glad hammer was nerfed & it’s not even THAT bad. Anet has gone easy on warriors if you think about it. I main a warrior & an ele; Many many times as an ele I’ve literally been chased around a sPvP match by hammer/stunlocks & when they actually could land a hit, it would only take them 3-4 hits to take me down (And I’m talking full bunker ele) So yeah, nerf needed much c:

I believe the issue did indeed rely heavily on damage. CC is fine, and the purpose of the weapon – even ANet stated this in the patch notes. The issue was that you’d have hammer warriors killing targets before the CC’s even ended.

I’ve encountered multiple fights of hammer warrior vs squishy class, and the squishy class gets no chance to even get up before dying. I recall three-hitting my friend who was playing his thief using purely CC skills.

The weapon’s utility still is incredibly potent – more so than pretty much every other class’s setup can be, and it simply did too much damage. We get two weapon slots, so if you need CC/utility, hammer it up, for DPS, you need another weapon.

I hope more tweaking ensues, actually. It’s complaints about nerfs like these that give warriors really bad stigma for being a class which requires no skill but excels at everything. Obviously nobody wants unncessary nerfs, but it’s been long due for the warrior, and I’d rather be recognized as being a skilled player and winning a fair fight than need to simply accept complaints from other people about winning due to inherent class design/advantage (denying the latter is a fallacy, whether or not skilled play was a factor).

Black Teagan.9215:

Massive dmg + massive cc’s dont fits together, accept it.

Says the thief, that probably uses Basilisk to set up his BS. Hammer warrior was far from OP, blind,stun breakers, stability,chill, and learning to dodge roll > a Hammer War. I see the current trend A-net is on, nerf things cause people cant learn to counter it.. We’ll all except their precious thief.

Jereme.1840:

Black Teagan.9215:

Massive dmg + massive cc’s dont fits together, accept it.

Says the thief, that probably uses Basilisk to set up his stealth BS. Hammer warrior was far from OP, blind,stun breakers, stability,chill, and learning to dodge roll > a Hammer War. I see the current trend A-net is on, nerf things cause people cant learn to counter it.. We’ll all except their precious thief.

Wrote the fool, who think I play with stealth!

Black Teagan.9215:

Jereme.1840:

Black Teagan.9215:

Massive dmg + massive cc’s dont fits together, accept it.

Says the thief, that probably uses Basilisk to set up his stealth BS. Hammer warrior was far from OP, blind,stun breakers, stability,chill, and learning to dodge roll > a Hammer War. I see the current trend A-net is on, nerf things cause people cant learn to counter it.. We’ll all except their precious thief.

Wrote the fool, who think I play with stealth!

Then Ur doing it wrong, then it’s a learn to dodge roll issue? Or not evading fast enough on Sword? either that or cheesy condi? Meh what I’m getting at is someone who plays thief really shouldn’t cry over another class. For the obvious reasons.

phaeris.7604:

Julie Yann.5379:

In WvW if a thief dies to a hammer warrior, he seriously need to L2P. Blind is the hammer’s biggest weakness. Avoid shadow refuge if you can, you are just a sitting duck in one of those and like you said, avoid getting locked down.

The hammer itself is not OP. Like it has be said, it’s the traits which stack together that make it OP. Taking a good look at the proposed nerfs, it is clear that Anet is reacting to the PvP Hambow which deals a ridiculous amount of punishment. I guess it easier to destroy the build than to fix it.

Oh how I love that style of answering. If a hammer warrior dies to a thief he seriously need to L2P. See how easy that is?. Can’t beat me? l2P! it’s obviously you!.
I don’t really need to argue as Anet themselves have said the hammer delivers too much damage for a Control based weapon.

I bet if they suddenly upped static field damage to 4k on an elementalist there’d be an uproar! Or lowered the cooldown from 40 seconds to 7 seconds….

Adrenaline regen is so much that your F1 abilities are basically a 6th ability on a 7 sec cooldown(with trait). If earthshaker were an actual ability no way would it be that low of a cooldown. It’d be on a 30-40 second timer at least and 1/4 of the damage.

If you find post patch you’re not as effective the hammer was op and you’re a bad player. If you still find you’re effective then you’d be a good player with whatever weapon set.

Thief has the most options to evade, reset fights, and can still do a considerately fair amount of dmg. Yet you cry over Hammer Wars? ( LOL ) Hammer has the most telegraphed animations in the game.Dodge roll,stability,blind,> Hammer. I wish I had a weapon set which allowed me to spam 1 button for kills….. I sure as hell wouldn’t come crying on the forums if I did =/