Guild Wars 2

Artaz.3819:

Necrotize.2974:

redslion.9675:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Heta.8629:

I’m pretty sure any class can tank 3 normal pve mobs with heals. Using the heal signet for the passive effect is a legit way to use a heal. It’s no different than any other class occasionally pressing 6. I saw a heal working as intended

What other class can passively regenerate almost a thousand health per second? Paired with the superior natural defenses of a warrior this is gamebreakingly overpowered.

Engineer can reach 800 hps WITHOUT the healing skill, just with bombs, regeneration from trait and regeneration from boon.

Your point being? So in order to match the healing from 1 heal skill that warrior has the engineer must not only spam bombs(IE be in melee range or be doing 0 damage) has to apply regeneration(which btw would in fact most likely require them to use their heal or toolbelt heal in order to gain that regen buff) and go 20 points into a trait tree for 1 trait and then 30 points into another tree for a different trait. All of that to get the equivalent of 3 skill points. Face it, to match the passive regen of signet(we’re not even taking into account the damage loss or survivability loss another class would have to undergo to obtain this feat) another class would have to spec entirely for it and probably still wouldn’t even match it, let alone achieve the same amount of utility.

So just to sum up.
Engineer Requirements for Large Regen
20 Trait points in Alchemy
30 Trait points in Inventions
Spamming Bombs the entire time
Somehow apply regeneration, most likely via your heal skill/heal toolbelt skill

Warrior Requirements for Large Regen
Put on healing signet

You do realize the Engineer is also invulnerable during 3 of those 10 seconds because of the dodge rolls with Vigor boon (also instant with Swiftness). And Engineers also have an instant heal via Bandage Self as well. And Regen is instant activation as well from multiple sources. But shhh!, keep focusing on Warrior sustain.

Warriors require just as much investment in trait lines/gear focus/button spam (and will be melee range as well). Keep telling yourself it is different somehow.

Bomb Engineers are basically melee Warriors with more boons/utility available for less base pool health and requires slightly more button pushing.

… not that I think there is anything wrong with Bomb Engineers as it is far more fun than Grenadier spam.

SHHHH dont try making them see the light…its easier to bash on the newly crowned king…let them be just keep running warrior/engi roaming teams and enjoy the free loot bags cause I AM NOT going down with my trusty engi dropping nukes on everyone and giving me combo fields to blow the eff up

look at all the bad players defending warrior regen.

lol

Amins.3710:

look at all the bad players defending warrior regen.

lol

look at all the bad players attacking warrior regen as they r unable to do 500dmg/s

lol

Scoobaniec.9561:

Amins.3710:

look at all the bad players defending warrior regen.

lol

look at all the bad players attacking warrior regen as they r unable to do 500dmg/s

lol

Inarticulate people will complain about just healing signet. The problem lies in the synergy of stun heavy builds, adrenal health and signet. Basically you equip hammer+mace/shield, slot endure pain and berserker stance and you can effectively negate damage for quite a long time via blocks and stuns meaning all the is happening is your passive regen. Endure pain alone from the trait and utility is 8 seconds of immunity to damage barring conditions(and you can cap points in it for some reason) meaning 407 from signet + lets say stage 2 adrenal 204= 611×8(since we’ll assume no stance traits) thats 5k free hp for doing absolutely nothing. Did the math in another thread but with that setup and cycling stuns/dazes, you can ideally achieve about 12k healing in the span of 18 seconds while receiving almost no damage during that time.

My problem however doesn’t lie in the numbers, it lies in the skill. I’m fine with warriors regening hp, so long as they have to manage something like other classes do. Warrior’s entire system of regeneration is entirely passive.

NargofWoV.4267:

Hmm, my Ranger has 3k more health and his healing is X3 as good as the healing signet on the warrior.

As a matter of fact, I was quite surprised, when I rolled the warrior how poor the healing signet was compared to my Ranger (my only other 80).

And how much healing power is your ranger running vs how much is your warrior running? Also, keep in mind most warriors can keep perma regen as well on top of healing signet with banner

Considering regen boon is at 0.125 x healing power , if you’re healing more than a settler’s warrior , then id like to really know how. The warrior can get almost 700hp passive perma a tick with that combo, what are you getting with your ranger in pvp again?

Could someone explain me how to get Adrenal Health working while spamming burst skills?

Wethospu.6437:

Could someone explain me how to get Adrenal Health working while spamming burst skills?

Place burst skills either at the very start(if you are coming from another fight or used berserker stance) or at the very end of your stun chain. If you build it fast enough or used berserker sometime during the fight they can be inserted in the middle. The best place though is at the end when your enemy is close to dying and trying to heal. At this point interrupting their heal will most likely kill them and you’ll no longer need adrenal.

Lucentfir.7430:

@harper

Please, first of all i’ll agree healing signet by itself is okay, it’s the fact that it’s combined with Adrenal health and whatever regen boon, that makes it over the top, which is why I suggested in the past to knock down the base and up the ratio high(50 sounds about good imo so it isn’t where it used to be back then). I understand the workings of a warrior because before the Healing signet buff I was already in the works in crafting a build for my warrior that wasn’t fotm and I took the time to analyze. Traitlines, and weapon set ups, and combonations of abilities and overall synergy. I’m already building up a second warrior, to try out Rifle and Hammer build, and experiment with a few other builds.

I wouldn’t be so bothered by this either if it wasn’t for the fact that Warrior don’t really sacrifice anything. if you compare to a guardian(Comparing the two class because they practically are in the same department where they have to be melee) sure they get aegis, protection, and regen, vigor, and virtues, but here’s the thing, that’s what they pay for for having 10k hp base health, which is about 8-9k less than a warrior.

The regen you see from a guardian? it’s invested to survive. All the gimmicks you’re talking about…they’re active defense, and just as well protection. Virtues are pretty weak unless you trait and spec into them. Guardians are one of the few good balance classes in the game. We don’t have good mobility but that’s another trade off for having sustain, and boons, we only have The sustain, and support. Our damage is okay as long as we build for it and sacrifice our survivability . That’s a thing too, we as guardians or any other class for that matter have to sacrifice stats.

TBH Idk why I’m even replying here now, when most of the warrior forum is biased. It. So whatever. All it’s going to boil down too is “Oh you can’t faceroll warrior? L2P noob, Warriors aren’t free kills anymore.” SO i guess enjoy making the same argument over and over again. I’ll just be dealing with Warriors on my Warriors, since it’s a even playing field. I’ll be sure as hell to enjoy the Healing Signet myself on my warriors.

Warriors compensate for the lack of ability to buff others in combat as well.
Disregarding PVE – in most sPVP matchups a warrior will not output boons for his team as much as a guardian.
The ultimate issue here is that people are mad warrior’s regen is strong and passive – that is so because more than any class a warrior is very dependent on positioning.
One wrong move and you’ve got no mechanic to get you out of trouble.

You need to be very aware of yourself and your opponent if you want to succeed.

People don’t understand that to win a battle you don’t need to secure that kill ( eg kill the person flat). In most cases driving them off is enough.

If you can’t kill a denfesively specced warrior with a mace/hammer – stun build that doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world.
As a warrior going into a battle I almost never expect to be able to kill that thief or mesmer unless they make very big mistakes. But that’s ok – I’m not spamming their forums about how OP their classes are.

If I encounter a guardian I know to be weary- I don’t expect a free kill – yet it seems to me most players feel that because they can’t drop/wipe the warrior fast enough – or god forbid the warrior can now kill them – they are OP.

This honestly has to stop.

erm no healing signet is not ok at all atm. ever fought a reen warrior in wvw? and no u cant just stunbreak all the time. mybe the firt 3 stuns, but imagine 25 warriors in a zerg or 30 of them. try to stunbreak that. then yes the regen is a big problem as it heals u even if u are cc’ed. we cant heal when we are immobilized or perma interrupted. u can.

as a mesmer i have barely any stability and yes ill get knocked doen and chain immobilized and stunned all the time. if anet doesnt fix this overbuff with a nerf, then id like to have my full confusion back and bb ant tc unnerfed on mesmers. plus i would like to get some more gw1 style skills for it too.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Amins.3710:

look at all the bad players defending warrior regen.

lol

look at all the bad players attacking warrior regen as they r unable to do 500dmg/s

lol

I lol’d. Good job, successfully owned.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Amins.3710:

look at all the bad players defending warrior regen.

lol

look at all the bad players attacking warrior regen as they r unable to do 500dmg/s

lol

Look @ all the bad ezmode Thieves who rerolled to warrior cuz theif wasn’t ezmode enough.

gg

selan.8354:

erm no healing signet is not ok at all atm. ever fought a reen warrior in wvw? and no u cant just stunbreak all the time. mybe the firt 3 stuns, but imagine 25 warriors in a zerg or 30 of them. try to stunbreak that. then yes the regen is a big problem as it heals u even if u are cc’ed. we cant heal when we are immobilized or perma interrupted. u can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tR_KsB_2xY

as a mesmer i have barely any stability and yes ill get knocked doen and chain immobilized and stunned all the time. if anet doesnt fix this overbuff with a nerf, then id like to have my full confusion back and bb ant tc unnerfed on mesmers. plus i would like to get some more gw1 style skills for it too.

Heal signet OP because it out healed a longbow ranger auto attack at point blank?

Amins.3710:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Amins.3710:

look at all the bad players defending warrior regen.

lol

look at all the bad players attacking warrior regen as they r unable to do 500dmg/s

lol

Look @ all the bad ezmode Thieves who rerolled to warrior cuz theif wasn’t ezmode enough.

gg

Look @ all the bad players who are still BH from the dagger that broke their fragile GC bodies

selan.8354:

erm no healing signet is not ok at all atm. ever fought a reen warrior in wvw? and no u cant just stunbreak all the time. mybe the firt 3 stuns, but imagine 25 warriors in a zerg or 30 of them. try to stunbreak that. then yes the regen is a big problem as it heals u even if u are cc’ed. we cant heal when we are immobilized or perma interrupted. u can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tR_KsB_2xY

as a mesmer i have barely any stability and yes ill get knocked doen and chain immobilized and stunned all the time. if anet doesnt fix this overbuff with a nerf, then id like to have my full confusion back and bb ant tc unnerfed on mesmers. plus i would like to get some more gw1 style skills for it too.

So the fact that you can blink around, and throw clones and even go invisible isn’t enough for you to be effective in a fight.

Warriors are not overbuffed – if you feel your class is weak make a post about it and ask for buffs.

The strange thing is that the only class that should always, and I mean without exception always kill any warrior in 1v1 is the mesmer. Staff just completely wrecks warriors. Maybe, just maybe a sword/shield+longbow warrior can come out on top, but that’s a big maybe.

Cygnus.6903:

The strange thing is that the only class that should always, and I mean without exception always kill any warrior in 1v1 is the mesmer. Staff just completely wrecks warriors. Maybe, just maybe a sword/shield+longbow warrior can come out on top, but that’s a big maybe.

except a warrior can just run away and the mesmer can’t catch him. So a mesmer will never kill the warrior if he just bails in time.

Thieves,Guardians,Mesmers,Necromancers,Ranger,Elementals,Engineers all hate Warriors.

Hate and anger inside you have reached unbelievable heights.
GG.

Nerf passive play, and buff active play, that’s my opinion.

I decided to try out sPvP the other day with the new adrenal health and healing signet combo. And while testing my setup, I equipped Settlers amulet and poked the engineer npc, the same npc who can 3 shot my thief, I lost some k’s of hp and stared at the screen, then I went for a cigarette and went to lie on my sofa and watch tv, several minutes passed and the moment I checked the screen even the NPC got bored of me and stopped dpsing and went back to his starter point.

I changed my build, 0/10/30/0/30 to be specific, equipped valkyrie amulet, and went
to some hot join, barely touched my dodge button, could pretty much ignore conditions unless I had 10+ stacks of bleed long poison or burn, used shield block and endure pain to counter bursts, stunlocked and dealt mediocre amounts of damage, I felt like a God. If things went bad, usually in 1v3, shield block and endure pain and walked away and used hammer burst to gain distance, and break LoS to avoid ranged damage. The only required skill was to time stuns, and knowing when to counter bursts with forms of invulnerability, and when to dump adrenaline for condition removal, but just pressed Signet of Fury if I wanted to refill adrenaline. My experience on warrior in PvP is limited, let’s be honest, I’m kittening noob, never even went to WvW with my warrior, and I died 2 times in 6 games and was among the top scorers. This type of passive survival is just too much, allthough bunker guardians and engineers can be too much sometimes, they at least require skill and cooldown management, and go down once they are out.

Sure, warrior always used to be a bit below other professions and were not wanted in tPvP, and they needed a buff, and now when they finally are viable and loved, people are afraid to see nerfs bringing them back down because of QQers.

But I think the passive heal needs to be toned down but scale better with healing power and survival from other sources to be improved, and possibly heal from dumping adrenaline? Or something like that.

And also the other classes needs to be brought up a bit to make them compete better with warriors, also I think thief, elementalist and guardians(can be discussed) should receive a slight increase in their health pool and heal to compete as good as the rest of the classes against condition builds.

Healing Signet is a powerful regen effect. There’s no denying that.

But Adrenal Health is in the DEFENSE tree. A tree which is supposed to increase Warrior survival. ANet has stated their intended method of Warrior survival is via Regens, such as Heal Sig and Adre Health.

Outside of traiting into tactics 30, Warriors have no alternate means of healing.

Guardians, Engineers, and Eles for example, have the 6 button, along with weapon skills, attunements, kits, utility skills, etc. A whole slew of alternate means to recover or mitigate damage.

Warrior gets no access to protection. NONE whatsoever. It gets extremely minimal access to the regen buff. No health recovery on any utilities (except tactics banner, but go see how that works out for you in a 1v1 duel). Therefore, all Warrior healing has been consolidated into a single #6 button

Think back to before the Healing buff a few months back!

What was the Warriors primary issue? Lack of Sustain!

These skills were buffed intentionally. And it’s not creating as big an issue, the primary user of Healing Signet are the Bunker and Bruiser warrior builds. Aren’t they supposed to be sort of tanky?

Your opinions don’t matter, maths does.

Healing Signet heals 395/s
Healing Surge heals 9895 aka 329/s

Just make Healing Signet heal 329/s.

Red Falcon.8257:

Your opinions don’t matter, maths does.

Healing Signet heals 395/s
Healing Surge heals 9895 aka 329/s

Just make Healing Signet heal 329/s.

Let’s take closer look on what’s achievable in 30 seconds.

Healing surge 9895 + 3600 adrenal health = 13495 / 30 = 449 hp/s

Healing signet 29 seconds 11368 + ~1 sec cast time active 3275 + 3600 adrenal health. = 18.243 / 30 = 608 hp/s

1200 dps on ~3500 armor to at least just have only 50% of the dps outhealed, while having to dodge hammer and mace attacks and get stunned anyways + the target has blocks and invulnerability to counter bursts, isn’t really easy.

I wouldn’t have anything against this strong heal, if it wasn’t passive.

Red Falcon.8257:

Your opinions don’t matter, maths does.

Healing Signet heals 395/s
Healing Surge heals 9895 aka 329/s

Just make Healing Signet heal 329/s.

Your math doesn’t matter.
One is healing OVER TIME – while the other is instant. There’s a big difference.

Ghostwolf.9863:

Healing surge 9895 + 3600 adrenal health = 13495 / 30 = 449 hp/s

Healing signet 29 seconds 11368 + ~1 sec cast time active 3275 + 3600 adrenal health. = 18.243 / 30 = 608 hp/s

1200 dps on ~3500 armor to at least just have only 50% of the dps outhealed, while having to dodge hammer and mace attacks and get stunned anyways + the target has blocks and invulnerability to counter bursts, isn’t really easy.

I wouldn’t have anything against this strong heal, if it wasn’t passive.

There’s a slight problem with your calculation. You calculated the healing as if Adrenal Health was at 3 bars 100% of the time during the entire fight. You didn’t count the fact that Warriors start fights at 0 Adrenaline, and have to build up.

Furthermore, you also mentioned Hammer and Mace stuns along side those incorrect healing values, but again neglected to compensate that these are burst skills that require using all the warriors adrenaline and stripping away their adrenal health heal.

You can’t have BOTH. You either have the passive healing by sitting on adrenaline, OR you’re using your Bursts for stuns. And dont forget, this is in the defense tree.
Isn’t the purpose of the defense tree supposed to be to increase survival?

Not entirely true Dand.

0/10/30/0/30 build – you can keep Stage 1 up at all times WHILE using your Burst.

The issue w/ warriors is not necissarily the Regen… though the issues came about BECAUSE of the regen…

Warrior Weapon, Utility & Burst cooldowns are ~too low~.

Bottom line: Either reduce regen or increase cooldowns.

It’s the massive amount of hard CC (and mobility for that matter) that makes the regen sooooo freak’n good.

What if they made the passive for Healing Signet something like “Gain X health per bar of Adrenaline on use”, then the active is just the heal itself that scales in some way (maybe the inverse of Healing Surge? Ie More heal for less adrenaline).

That way, when you don’t land a burst, you don’t get your heal (dodging/blocking reduces overall healing potential for a Warrior), and you can force a Warrior into a smaller heal with intelligent play, while the Warrior is rewarded for preparing for/landing a Burst ability.

And maybe people would use other Bursts to get their heal in or something.

Just a thought. I just came back to the game recently after another stint away, and I’m already exhausted by all of the shallow back-and-forth about these mechanics. Remove Hammer, nerf Healing Signet, Warriors are OP.

My general philosophy is: if you don’t have an idea for fixing a problem in a game, then you aren’t entitled to complaining about it. If you don’t know enough about a problem to suggest an alternative, then why would I believe your opinion that it is broken?

NargofWoV.4267:

Hmm, my Ranger has 3k more health and his healing is X3 as good as the healing signet on the warrior.

As a matter of fact, I was quite surprised, when I rolled the warrior how poor the healing signet was compared to my Ranger (my only other 80).

Ehh

TU is less HPS then Healing Signet
Natural Healing is either Equal or Less then Adrenal Healing (depends on how often you keep Adrenal Up)
Signet of the Wild with no healing power + TU is actually about the Equiv of Healing Signet.

So it takes a utility Slot + Heal Slot to equal Healing Signet

Cogbyrn.7283:

What if they made the passive for Healing Signet something like “Gain X health per bar of Adrenaline on use”, then the active is just the heal itself that scales in some way (maybe the inverse of Healing Surge? Ie More heal for less adrenaline).

That way, when you don’t land a burst, you don’t get your heal (dodging/blocking reduces overall healing potential for a Warrior), and you can force a Warrior into a smaller heal with intelligent play, while the Warrior is rewarded for preparing for/landing a Burst ability.

And maybe people would use other Bursts to get their heal in or something.

Just a thought. I just came back to the game recently after another stint away, and I’m already exhausted by all of the shallow back-and-forth about these mechanics. Remove Hammer, nerf Healing Signet, Warriors are OP.

My general philosophy is: if you don’t have an idea for fixing a problem in a game, then you aren’t entitled to complaining about it. If you don’t know enough about a problem to suggest an alternative, then why would I believe your opinion that it is broken?

This completely negates the initial idea of passive sustain aimed at making the warrior strong enough to get up close and personal since it already requires you to be up close and personal to work.
Plus – it breaks the skill for PVE.
Plus – it has zero synergy with builds that rely on keeping adrenaline. Since you’re now no longer even presented with a choice of spending or keeping. You spend or you die.

That means you’ll be kited to death long before you can spend it and heal.

If healing signet isn’t a problem why aren’t more warriors NOT using it? Wouldn’t that mean that the healing skills are imbalanced themselves? At least, afaik, people have used a variety of healing skills for ele/thief/mesmer/ranger/guard but when it comes to warrior why is it always that healing signet is the primary healing skill used? Wouldn’t adrenal health + Healing surge or mending suffice since there is passive regen already plus a burst heal? So then why is it again that warriors would still choose a healing skill, more often, with more passive regen than a burst heal or a cleansing heal?

Harper.4173:

Cogbyrn.7283:

What if they made the passive for Healing Signet something like “Gain X health per bar of Adrenaline on use”, then the active is just the heal itself that scales in some way (maybe the inverse of Healing Surge? Ie More heal for less adrenaline).

That way, when you don’t land a burst, you don’t get your heal (dodging/blocking reduces overall healing potential for a Warrior), and you can force a Warrior into a smaller heal with intelligent play, while the Warrior is rewarded for preparing for/landing a Burst ability.

And maybe people would use other Bursts to get their heal in or something.

Just a thought. I just came back to the game recently after another stint away, and I’m already exhausted by all of the shallow back-and-forth about these mechanics. Remove Hammer, nerf Healing Signet, Warriors are OP.

My general philosophy is: if you don’t have an idea for fixing a problem in a game, then you aren’t entitled to complaining about it. If you don’t know enough about a problem to suggest an alternative, then why would I believe your opinion that it is broken?

This completely negates the initial idea of passive sustain aimed at making the warrior strong enough to get up close and personal since it already requires you to be up close and personal to work.
Plus – it breaks the skill for PVE.
Plus – it has zero synergy with builds that rely on keeping adrenaline. Since you’re now no longer even presented with a choice of spending or keeping. You spend or you die.

That means you’ll be kited to death long before you can spend it and heal.

Perhaps the initial idea of passive sustain is inherently flawed in a game with dodge and block mechanics like Guild Wars 2. And by that rationale, are the other two heals inherently useless because they have to be used? Is passive sustain the only way to get up close and personal?

I don’t understand how it breaks it for PvE, since you didn’t bother explaining.

I do understand how it has 0 synergy for builds that rely on maintaining high adrenaline. Two points on that:

1 – You know what skill has wonderful synergy for builds that rely on maintaining high adrenaline? Healing Surge. Either you get full adrenaline from 0 instantly for a lesser heal, or you get a nice, big heal at full adrenaline. You already have a healing ability that plays into an Adrenaline Junky build’s hands. Do you need two? Or all three?

2 – Other builds give benefits for using adrenaline. Cleansing Ire has already started down this road. Perhaps adrenaline-using builds should have a heal that synergizes with them? Or do they not count because that isn’t what you do?

I’d be happy to hear your ideas. Or do you think it’s just fine as it is? I don’t necessarily think it’s that far unbalanced, but I think it’s ridiculously boring and an extraordinarily lazy design. I also think that of builds that use the profession mechanic for passive damage gains, so perhaps we just fundamentally disagree.

I agree with Ghostwolf.9863 healing signet passiv shood be nerfed and active buffed beacose its redicoulus atm im ok with every other aspect of warrior (not haveing warrior myself) and dont say I need to lear not play I usealy try to fight you guys for 10m or so than I give up and run away xD beacose you just regen 2 fast I cind a like warrior hammer skills , I dont mind them and I dont see whats op abouth them they usealy dont hit me (the one what cripples is anoying a bit) and once again my post is chiberish xD my idea bring passiv on healing signet back to what it was before tune it down 50% and double healing you get from active so 196 health per sec on passiv and 6500 healing on active and all would be ok with it.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Rednik.3809:

Change it for sPvP, since for WvW and PVE it’s balanced.
-5 sec from CD, +50% heal on activate, -1/3 regen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvt4elvUzGU

Do you really consider this balanced in any game mode? This kind of passive gameplay should never be permitted. Right now warriors are boring to play and boring to play against. And this issue isn’t exactly new, it’s just that it has hit a critical point now thanks to a plethora of other buffs. It used to take skill to survive out there as a warrior and now any chimp can just waltz into a throng of enemies and come out unscathed. They’ve allowed it to get to this point and now they have to do something about it.

Same situation with Healing Surge. Guess what happens…

http://youtu.be/BiSK2BNA2YA

Nerf Healing Surge!

actualy warrior got all those -
Bersek stance – 8 seconds condition removal ?
Balanced stance – 8 sec stability + swiftness ?
healing signet + dodge march ( lol regen)
Bull charge +rush + whilrwind – lol mobility
Base Hp and armor ?
I got nothing against healing signet, but you cannot slow them, imobilize them, and they got high acces to stability
The condition removal /imunity is too strong combined with healing signet and high mobility

I wish they can nerf whiners especially when it’s focused on stuff that can be easily defeated.

If you can’t do it solo then try it with a team. Sometimes you gotta let go of that 1 vs 1 ego and things become a lot funner that way except for the player that’s being jumped.

You know as they say don’t bite more than you can chew

Brutalistik.6473:

I wish they can nerf whiners especially when it’s focused on stuff that can be easily defeated.

If you can’t do it solo then try it with a team. Sometimes you gotta let go of that 1 vs 1 ego and things become a lot funner that way except for the player that’s being jumped.

You know as they say don’t bite more than you can chew

Welcome to the thief club!
Enjoy some of our delicious homemade brownies baked with the finest tears we have collected over the months.

My only problem is that their entire healing system is passive and requires 0 thought/skill to maintain really. Pick up adrenal health, pick up signet, never worry about that 6th slot ever again because chances are if you get low enough hp that you’d consider using it you probably wouldn’t survive anyway meaning there is ideally no reason to ever activate the signet.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Harper.4173:

Cogbyrn.7283:

What if they made the passive for Healing Signet something like “Gain X health per bar of Adrenaline on use”, then the active is just the heal itself that scales in some way (maybe the inverse of Healing Surge? Ie More heal for less adrenaline).

That way, when you don’t land a burst, you don’t get your heal (dodging/blocking reduces overall healing potential for a Warrior), and you can force a Warrior into a smaller heal with intelligent play, while the Warrior is rewarded for preparing for/landing a Burst ability.

And maybe people would use other Bursts to get their heal in or something.

Just a thought. I just came back to the game recently after another stint away, and I’m already exhausted by all of the shallow back-and-forth about these mechanics. Remove Hammer, nerf Healing Signet, Warriors are OP.

My general philosophy is: if you don’t have an idea for fixing a problem in a game, then you aren’t entitled to complaining about it. If you don’t know enough about a problem to suggest an alternative, then why would I believe your opinion that it is broken?

This completely negates the initial idea of passive sustain aimed at making the warrior strong enough to get up close and personal since it already requires you to be up close and personal to work.
Plus – it breaks the skill for PVE.
Plus – it has zero synergy with builds that rely on keeping adrenaline. Since you’re now no longer even presented with a choice of spending or keeping. You spend or you die.

That means you’ll be kited to death long before you can spend it and heal.

Perhaps the initial idea of passive sustain is inherently flawed in a game with dodge and block mechanics like Guild Wars 2. And by that rationale, are the other two heals inherently useless because they have to be used? Is passive sustain the only way to get up close and personal?

I don’t understand how it breaks it for PvE, since you didn’t bother explaining.

I do understand how it has 0 synergy for builds that rely on maintaining high adrenaline. Two points on that:

1 – You know what skill has wonderful synergy for builds that rely on maintaining high adrenaline? Healing Surge. Either you get full adrenaline from 0 instantly for a lesser heal, or you get a nice, big heal at full adrenaline. You already have a healing ability that plays into an Adrenaline Junky build’s hands. Do you need two? Or all three?

2 – Other builds give benefits for using adrenaline. Cleansing Ire has already started down this road. Perhaps adrenaline-using builds should have a heal that synergizes with them? Or do they not count because that isn’t what you do?

I’d be happy to hear your ideas. Or do you think it’s just fine as it is? I don’t necessarily think it’s that far unbalanced, but I think it’s ridiculously boring and an extraordinarily lazy design. I also think that of builds that use the profession mechanic for passive damage gains, so perhaps we just fundamentally disagree.

1.Builds that require you keep your adren are hit hard if you have to spend it to heal.
HS is good BUT it is a spike heal – and there are situations that would disadvantage you if you use a spike heal. You have to be able to have the variety.

2.If you tie in both condition removal and healing to spending your adrenaline you’ll create a very dangerous situation since you’ll be able to do nothing if you’re prevented from doing that. If you are kited you DO NOT HEAL – that is exactly the situation ( total lack of sustain) that warrior was in before signet was added.

If you think HS is broken – please try to realize there’s a reason it was made this way – and that things were very difficult before it was changed.

I think the skill is fine as it is – it’s not over the top – like i said – it’s a very specific build that combines CC and this skill that is considered to be the flavor of the month and hated by most people who can’t beat it. The skill itself is fine.
You have to realize that what you consider " lazy design " and " extremely boring" are things that other players like.
There are players in this game that don’t want to have more stuff to do – and just want a simpler class while still being effective. That also goes for mechanics that promote passive damage gain.
The are players that like playing a very active class , constantly watching cooldowns, constantly spamming buttons and mashing keyboards.
The majority of classes cater to that : thief, engi, ele, guardian – all these classes work like that.
There are however players who still want to be effective without having to dance around they keyboard like a ferret on coffee. So – yes – the warrior class is more oriented towards that.
It’s not " boring " – it’s just something you dislike.

baylock.1703:

I agree with Ghostwolf.9863 healing signet passiv shood be nerfed and active buffed beacose its redicoulus atm im ok with every other aspect of warrior (not haveing warrior myself) and dont say I need to lear not play I usealy try to fight you guys for 10m or so than I give up and run away xD beacose you just regen 2 fast I cind a like warrior hammer skills , I dont mind them and I dont see whats op abouth them they usealy dont hit me (the one what cripples is anoying a bit) and once again my post is chiberish xD my idea bring passiv on healing signet back to what it was before tune it down 50% and double healing you get from active so 196 health per sec on passiv and 6500 healing on active and all would be ok with it.

That’s making the passive heal WORSE than it was before it was buffed.
And giving us another spike heal – which we already have ( see Healing Surge).
Why? The whole idea of the signet buff was to give us PASSIVE REGEN and SUSTAIN.

The buff came because the skill was underpowered – and you want to make it underpwoereed again – how do you even consider things when you post?
Basically you’re saying " ruin this class again because why not " .

Rayya.2591:

actualy warrior got all those -
Bersek stance – 8 seconds condition removal ?
Balanced stance – 8 sec stability + swiftness ?
healing signet + dodge march ( lol regen)
Bull charge +rush + whilrwind – lol mobility
Base Hp and armor ?
I got nothing against healing signet, but you cannot slow them, imobilize them, and they got high acces to stability
The condition removal /imunity is too strong combined with healing signet and high mobility

Then maybe condition removal should be looked at. But honestly you can slow and immobilize warriors – done it plenty of times.

Making the passive heal for less doesn’t necessarily mean nerf it into the ground…
Tone it down or maybe even raise it up but cause it to activate every 3 seconds or so like other signets. Just because people are suggesting a nerf doesn’t mean nerf it right back to where it was before, that’d be the opposite of progress. If nerfing heal signet would “ruin” an entire class though I believe you have just emphasized just how powerful it is. If nerfing a single skill makes a class unplayable then it is obvious there is a huge imbalance there. That skill then needs to be toned down and the effectiveness of the other’s increased.

The main problem at the moment I’m noticing though is with healing signet, warriors can take on tankier build and bunkers without much worry and on paper it would seem burst classes would be a great counter to this passive healing. Unfortunately that isn’t how it usually plays out. Usually the burst comes in, lands a big attack or two and warrior is close to half thanks to their large hp pool and then they just stun the burster. The burst classes eats a few hammer knockdowns and knockbacks, stunned again and is dead because they’re built to kill fast without taking as many hits.

I played this warrior today and told him his class was Op.

He replied : NO it’s not op

So I said look here, every class has a counter. Necro counters thief. Thiefs kill low hp classes like ele or light armour rangers, gaurs can bunker.
Tell me one class that is a strong counter to warriors? One class that should usually win…
After he thought about it long and hard he responded with…

Response: Other warriors

Mind = blown

Necrotize.2974:

Endure pain alone from the trait and utility is 8 seconds of immunity to damage barring conditions(and you can cap points in it for some reason) meaning 407 from signet + lets say stage 2 adrenal 204= 611×8(since we’ll assume no stance traits) thats 5k free hp for doing absolutely nothing. Did the math in another thread but with that setup and cycling stuns/dazes, you can ideally achieve about 12k healing in the span of 18 seconds while receiving almost no damage during that time.

Endure Pain lasts 4 sec, not 8. Adrenal Health ticks every 3 secs, not 1. So your math completely fails.

ReesesPBC.4603:

If healing signet isn’t a problem why aren’t more warriors NOT using it? Wouldn’t that mean that the healing skills are imbalanced themselves? At least, afaik, people have used a variety of healing skills for ele/thief/mesmer/ranger/guard but when it comes to warrior why is it always that healing signet is the primary healing skill used? Wouldn’t adrenal health + Healing surge or mending suffice since there is passive regen already plus a burst heal? So then why is it again that warriors would still choose a healing skill, more often, with more passive regen than a burst heal or a cleansing heal?

Healing Surge is far superior to Healing Signet against zerker builds. Healing Signet is pretty much useless against massive spike damage combos. If a thief for example hit you for 17k in 2s with steal → cnd → bs → hs → hs, do you really think healing signet saves you from death? In those situations Healing Surge is much more valuable because it spike heals you for up to 10k hp.

In fact Healing Surge can be even more hps than Healing Signet: e.g. in 40s you can use Healing Surge twice for up to 20.240 hp whereas Healing Surge heals you for 16.160 hp in the same time (much less if you factor in poison).

The reason most warriors run Healing Signet over Healing Surge is quite simple: Most enemies doesnt run zerker builds! Healing Signet is superior against bunker builds. I’m sure most warriors would use Healing Surge if more enemies would run strong power builds.

other reosanable thing to do would be to give healing signet to all classes so all classes can have sustain healing

baylock.1703:

other reosanable thing to do would be to give healing signet to all classes so all classes can have sustain healing

Worst idea ever. Warriors don’t have access to Protection, Aegis, Blind, Stealth, Blink, Weapon Heals, Pets, Clones and massive Evades. Strong heals is the only sustain warriors get. You cannot have it all lol

teg.1340:

baylock.1703:

other reosanable thing to do would be to give healing signet to all classes so all classes can have sustain healing

Worst idea ever. Warriors don’t have access to Protection, Aegis, Blind, Stealth, Blink, Weapon Heals, Pets, Clones and massive Evades. Strong heals is the only sustain warriors get. You cannot have it all lol

never wanted ur healing signet
but truely one skill cannot be so important to you… and warriors have highest base health with highest armor good cap closers compear to other classes , thief might have better.. healing signet is just formula of booring fight and useing it shood not be rewarded so much…

I don’t really get this nerf debate. I am using a regen build right now and it works. But the signet, it heals for something like 470 a second (can’t remember exact number). I don’t know why people here say upwards of 1000 a second. That’s just way of the mark.

My previous build, was with a banner, and there I used Healing Surge. Now this healed me for 9000 points in a spike heal. That’s 20 seconds of passive regen you have to survive the fight (or the zerg!) before it evens out.

You are giving away the ability to heal when it matters, and the surge gives you full adrenalin. The surge has a 30 second cd, so this compensates for the 10 seconds longer cd where the regen is giving you free health.

It’s not really that far of the balance mark I’d say.

Maybe people are really complaining about stacking toughness.

Yes, guys, thanks for the clarifications above, my Ranger is running +healing armor set while my Warrior is not. That is the difference I’m seeing. Totally forgot about that.

Harper.4173:

1.Builds that require you keep your adren are hit hard if you have to spend it to heal.
HS is good BUT it is a spike heal – and there are situations that would disadvantage you if you use a spike heal. You have to be able to have the variety.

2.If you tie in both condition removal and healing to spending your adrenaline you’ll create a very dangerous situation since you’ll be able to do nothing if you’re prevented from doing that. If you are kited you DO NOT HEAL – that is exactly the situation ( total lack of sustain) that warrior was in before signet was added.

If you think HS is broken – please try to realize there’s a reason it was made this way – and that things were very difficult before it was changed.

I think the skill is fine as it is – it’s not over the top – like i said – it’s a very specific build that combines CC and this skill that is considered to be the flavor of the month and hated by most people who can’t beat it. The skill itself is fine.
You have to realize that what you consider " lazy design " and " extremely boring" are things that other players like.
There are players in this game that don’t want to have more stuff to do – and just want a simpler class while still being effective. That also goes for mechanics that promote passive damage gain.
The are players that like playing a very active class , constantly watching cooldowns, constantly spamming buttons and mashing keyboards.
The majority of classes cater to that : thief, engi, ele, guardian – all these classes work like that.
There are however players who still want to be effective without having to dance around they keyboard like a ferret on coffee. So – yes – the warrior class is more oriented towards that.
It’s not " boring " – it’s just something you dislike.

I already responded to your #1 in my previous post, and you just re-stated the point. That leads me to believe you didn’t read my post, or you skimmed it without actually taking any of it into consideration. And the passive from the Healing Signet would be SOME heals, not the entirety of the heal. Using the signet would still be effective, but when you aren’t using it, you would get some sustain for utilizing your burst. It COULD be dangerous if it was front-loaded onto heals from Adrenaline spending, but it doesn’t HAVE to be.

I don’t think HS is broken. I said that too. So again, reading. In fact, it is a very convenient counter to classes who tickle and then run forever. Wars of attrition with umpteen stealths/evades/blinks/etc. no longer work nearly as well with Healing Signet, and to be quite honest, it does feel good to finally not just be a victim of someone who doesn’t do much but slowly trickles up damage. Thieves who try that have to actually fight me, or they won’t kill me. Meanwhile, in a zerg fight, Healing Signet can be a huge liability, because if you take spike damage, you have to run out of the fight and sit there before you’re comfortable being back in.

But why can’t a heal that isn’t just a passive have similar sustain capabilities? Would the sustain given be too much power for an on-use heal? Maybe. But I still think passive play is weak play.

And yes, I dislike it. That’s why I said I think it’s boring and lazy. Do you think people try to be objective on these forums? I’m sharing my opinion on a topic, like everyone else. I’m using words that express how I feel about the situation. I think players who want to do less and still be effective shouldn’t be as effective as someone who does more. I don’t think anyone is entitled to performance through passive avatar strength, and I will always favor and argue for active abilities and mechanics. Always. I won’t always get my way, but that’s fine. It’s still how I feel.

So yes, it IS boring. To me. Which is where I’m coming from. And as it stands, people seem to favor weak attrition/kiting builds, so in small-scale situations that I prefer, Healing Signet feels strictly better. Until people learn to go hard in the paint, it’s probably what I’ll use, but I would also enjoy seeing it reworked.

And as others have mentioned, I think it’s a symptom of a problem and not the actual problem. It seems to be more a tower of little things, so ANet needs to be very careful. Which I’m sure they already know.

Necrotize.2974:

Making the passive heal for less doesn’t necessarily mean nerf it into the ground…
Tone it down or maybe even raise it up but cause it to activate every 3 seconds or so like other signets. Just because people are suggesting a nerf doesn’t mean nerf it right back to where it was before, that’d be the opposite of progress. If nerfing heal signet would “ruin” an entire class though I believe you have just emphasized just how powerful it is. If nerfing a single skill makes a class unplayable then it is obvious there is a huge imbalance there. That skill then needs to be toned down and the effectiveness of the other’s increased.

The main problem at the moment I’m noticing though is with healing signet, warriors can take on tankier build and bunkers without much worry and on paper it would seem burst classes would be a great counter to this passive healing. Unfortunately that isn’t how it usually plays out. Usually the burst comes in, lands a big attack or two and warrior is close to half thanks to their large hp pool and then they just stun the burster. The burst classes eats a few hammer knockdowns and knockbacks, stunned again and is dead because they’re built to kill fast without taking as many hits.

The whole idea of a burst class is do or die – that’s the concept. If the burst class fails to engage properly it dies. Warriors live by the same rule – if you go in at the wrong time you will die.
Again – making an activate requirement of the signet defeats the purpose of a passive regen skill.
Changing / nerfing it – would break every build that relies around the idea of a strong, passive regen warrior that can take hits in order to get up close. You’d just be left with no chance to close that vital gap.

I’ve met tons of good thieves that bursted me down with poison and skill.

Harper.4173:

I’ve met tons of good thieves that bursted me down with poison and skill backstab/auto attack.

Pretty much the same for me, I made the corrections though.