Guild Wars 2

Let’s face it, warriors are in a great place right now. Even when we stop hard-countering the current/slightly past meta, we’ll still be doing very well. We got a bit over-buffed in recent months, and some changes are going to have to be made to appease the frothing masses of QQers. Here are my ideas.

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

Alys Florent.1359:

Let’s face it, warriors are in a great place right now. Even when we stop hard-countering the current/slightly past meta, we’ll still be doing very well. We got a bit over-buffed in recent months, and some changes are going to have to be made to appease the frothing masses of QQers. Here are my ideas.

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

@Burst Mastery
You want a Grand Master trait that WEAKENS us?

@Sigil of Paralization
Its getting fixed.

@Healing Signet
No, no other healing skill in the game requires a great requirement of healing power to compensate for its weakness. This would turn Healing Signet into a Niche. When you design a skill it should be good for all types of gear, not one type of gear.

1 It would kill it for lower levels, it would be a worthless healing skill.

2 It would limit it to 1 type of gear only, instead of being good for all types of gear like it is now.

3 Healing power and stats should be a BONUS to a skill, not a REQUIREMENT.

Unless your doing the same thing to every single healing skill in the game, then i’m all for it!

Lets look at other healing abilities.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Troll_Unguent

What your basicly doing, is taking Troll Unguent, lowering its heal value to 400 and making it require Healing Power to be 856 again, right now 1500 healing power gives this ability about 1% extra healing every 100 points. It is almost the same as healing signet is now. In fact, Troll Unguent may heal for less, but its a lot better then healing signet due to the fact it also heals your pet as well as you.

@Healing Surge
Healing Surge should be changed to something else, more like “Hide in Shadows” for thieves cures poison/bleeding/fire conditions, gives 4 seconds of protection and restores adrenaline to full. (instead of stealthing.)

@Mending
Mending needs a healing increase by 25% in pve/pvp and should be a physical skill.

@Cleansing Ire
You can’t reduce adrenaline gain, you can only gain 1 strike.

@Signet of Rage
Nobody cares about the passive, because its worthless. Even if it gained more it would still be worthless unless it works outside of combat.

@Banners
Not many people use banners because you have to move them around by picking them up, nobody else has to do that.

Daecollo.9578:

Alys Florent.1359:

Let’s face it, warriors are in a great place right now. Even when we stop hard-countering the current/slightly past meta, we’ll still be doing very well. We got a bit over-buffed in recent months, and some changes are going to have to be made to appease the frothing masses of QQers. Here are my ideas.

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

No, no other healing skill in the game requires a great requirement of healing power to compensate for its weakness. This would turn Healing Signet into a Niche.

Signet of Restoration has a base heal of 168 hp/cast, so effectively around 200 hp/sec if you use optimal rotations with dagger mainhand. And it has a longer recharge on the active heal too. Granted ele has more self-healing sources than warrior, but it’s still less than half of Healing Signet’s passive.

Oh I see you’ve expanded -

“It would kill it for lower levels, it would be a worthless healing skill.”

This is for sPvP only, as the title indicates.

Signet of Restoration has Opportunity Cost meaning I can proc it up to 7 times in a single second if I desired.

Now, if Signet of Restoration had a 1 second internal cool-down, I’m all for making it 400 hp/s.

Also, Elementalist has a trait that lets you keep the passive while being able to use the Active for Signets, making there heals rather ridiculous.

Healing Signet just needs its Healing Power granted 0.1 from 0.05, then a 25% base heal amount nerf in pvp only. (making it 294.)

I added a lot more.

You can’t nerf Healing Signet that way, because no other healing skill in the game requires a dedication to one stat to make it effective. A stat should be a bonus not a crutch.

These changes would make me probably just delete my warrior if they were ever implemented, Warrior isn’t in such a huge advantage that it requires such sweeping changes. We arn’t the God-Eles.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Signet-of-Restoration-Revamp/first#post2910880

Ryld.1340:

Why such a drastic nerf?

Its better hp/s then healing signet, get its considered a NERF?

Alys Florent.1359:

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.

agree.

• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.

agree.

• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.

nerf seems a bit drastic, 220 is really low – id say somewhere around 300 without healing power.

• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.

ok.

• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.

agree with cast time reduction, not with the nerfs.

• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.

hmm.. ok maybe with the combination of sor buff:

* Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.

…

* Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

uhm why?

any thoughts?

what i miss here is a nerf to mace → 100b with unsuspecting foe – but besides that, good choices. i still want the mace stun duration lowered and buffs to mace #3 instead.

I agree that Healing Signet and some other skills like Trolls Ungeunt need toned down in spvp. As I said reduce the amount by 25%. Making it 298 in pvp.

Then who’s gonna keep the necros in check after these changes?

just because other classes need nerfs aswell, doesnt mean the warrior can be excused with those. tbh from a point of design any class should be able to keep necros in check if they build specifically for that purpose.

Alys Florent.1359:

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.

This is a big no-no. Taking one trait shouldn’t compromise the functionality of another trait.

Daecollo.9578:

@Healing Signet
When you design a skill it should be good for all types of gear, not one type of gear.

I don’t see the logic in this at all. Think about it. What you’re saying is that condition damage skills should be just as good when using gear without condition damage as they are when using gear with condition damage. The fact is that some skills are better with certain kinds of gear, in addition to certain trait specs.

A similar situation comes up with rangers in Heal as One vs. Troll Unguent. A lot of people will say troll unguent is better because it provides more overall healing, which is true, but there are situations where Heal as One is better than Troll Unguent. In particular, Heal as One allows for an immediate heal, whereas Troll Unguent essentially works as a form of regeneration. As such, Troll Unguent may not save you from a momentary burst whereas Heal as One will.

This is relevant when you consider the type of gear you’re using. If you’re a ranger that is very fragile, Troll Unguent may not be a good choice of healing skill because you will take damage very quickly. When you need to heal, you need it to come in a burst to survive any additional incoming damage. If you have to wait for your healing to occur, you’ll already be downed by then. Conversely, if you’re a tanky ranger, Troll Unguent will be a better choice because it will heal you for a greater amount overall, and you won’t have to worry about being completely bursted down while waiting for the heal to occur.

Similarly, Healing Signet used to be better for tankier builds because they were less reliant on burst heals an it helped them maintain their benefit from things like thick skin or heal while blocking. Healing Surge and even Mending tended to be better for glassier builds because you could heal yourself when needed, and you also got the other benefits they provide. A lot of people constantly called healing signet trash because they were running fragile builds that couldn’t sustain themselves properly by using it with the particular build and playstyle they were running.

With the current state, Healing Signet is completely viable on full glass builds, and almost always superior because the adrenaline building, condition removal, and burst healing from the other healing skills are unnecessary. It’s gone from the skill that was used by a minority of people who knew how to use it properly to being used so frequently that it’s a surprise to see a warrior without it.

However, I don’t think healing signet is itself the culprit of this. The other healing skills are simply lackluster in comparison, which is largely due to the trait and utility options that make them unnecessary. Adrenaline is built so freely that it’s not uncommon to completely fill it in the 7-10 seconds a burst skill is on cooldown. Conditions are handled through a combination of berserker stance, cleansing ire, and a 50%+ stun uptime. Burst damage is handled through damage immunity, stability, and 50%+ stun uptime. To not go for the superior healing offered by healing signet would just be a bad choice.

Steelo.4597:

what i miss here is a nerf to mace -> 100b with unsuspecting foe – but besides that, good choices. i still want the mace stun duration lowered and buffs to mace #3 instead.

If they were to touch mace at all, I’d rather see a wind up time added to skull crack. That thing comes out bloody fast for a 4s stun on a 7s cooldown, something similar to eviscerate. I mean, imagine if eviscerate or killshot came out that fast.

Alys Florent.1359:

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

1. Burst Mastery with Cleansing Ire is pretty much the only good way of removing conditions that get reapplied rapidly. And even then, Blind makes it all useless. You don’t really need to make it any worse off.
2. Sigil of Paralyzation is getting fixed in the October 15th patch.
3. Excuse me? That would put Healing Signet right back on the spot of being the worst healing skill Warriors have.
4. Why are you making a comparison between a signet and a non-signet healing skill, especially on classes that reside on the opposite ends of the HP spectrum?
5. How about no? Mending was already doomed when they put in Cleansing Ire, so making it clear even less conditions is a big no. Heck, right now most people prefer Healing Surge with Cleansing Ire or just plain Signet. If anything, Mending needs to have its healing increased, not reduced.
6. Um? Do you even know how Cleansing Ire works? Reducing the adrenaline gain wouldn’t really work, as it would put you into silli stuff like gaining 0.67 strikes (is it 0? is it 1?) for 1 hit or 1.33 (is it 1 or 2?) for 2 hits.
7. Lol, no one’s gonna use the passive since we already have tons of better ways to gain adrenaline, such as Berserker Stance, Furious and Sharpened Axes. And of course there’s always the GM trait Berserker’s Power which is currently twice as effective as the passive of Signet of Rage.
8. What? A 20% reduction on the cooldown with a 50% reduction on the duration? Are you serious? That would mean you would have to trait for the cooldown reduction, otherwise you just end up with a ridiculously low uptime.

There’s also the fact that healing spring is a long duration water field, applies regen continuously to allies within it’s Aoe, cures conditions with each pulse … and you want to bring mending down to the same base heal with none of that extra utility …

In short don’t spout words like “balanced” when you clearly haven’t got the slightest concept of what the word means.

Healing Signet and Adrenal Health need a nerf. Combined with regeneration the sustain of warriors is too high.

Reduce base healing, but increase the scaling with healing power.

Chaosbroker.3860:

There’s also the fact that healing spring is a long duration water field, applies regen continuously to allies within it’s Aoe, cures conditions with each pulse … and you want to bring mending down to the same base heal with none of that extra utility …

In short don’t spout words like “balanced” when you clearly haven’t got the slightest concept of what the word means.

Lol, I never even used the word “balance” in any of my posts, but feel free to keep using scare quotes to make a “point”.

Re Healing Spring, I was comparing cast times, not utility. I never mentioned specific base heal reduction numbers and furthermore put that idea as a “possible” addition. Healing Spring also has a longer recharge than Mending.

How about you just nerf the trait that makes all of these things you listed OP, instead of making half the class skills useless?
I mean use your brain a little bit: Unsuspecting Foe is to blame, as it allows tank specs to deal high damage which is what you’re complaining here.

So here is my suggestion:
- U.Foe becomes T3, so that in order to get it a Warrior must sacrifice condition removal and burst mastery
- H.sig becoems 280hp/s but Signet Mastery (now T2) increases it by 50%
- V.Focus gives 12s vigor instead of 8.

There you go, this way Warrior must choose between condition removal, U.Foe and Signet heal – instead of having them all in one build.

Lol… People want to nerf ALL the things that makes warrior viable and able to beat them.
One class is weak against CC – nerf cc (hammer, shield, mace) , they want to kill the warrior without being disturbed.
Other class cannot burst the warrior down with conditions – nerf mending, cleansing ire, healing signet (so warrior will not be able to remove conditions or have sustain against that class that can reaply conditions all the time).
Other class is weak against a longbow/hammer warrior – nerf longbow burst skill radius and hammer burst skill duration or the traits that alow the warrior to use that skills more often.

Every single build that alow the warrior to kill someone has been QQ in this fórum. Even builds that are only good 1v1 and not in team fights (GS/M-S). (Note: Some people that complained about that build now say that its not hard to counter. They adapted)

In this fórum every build that alow the warrior to have a chance to win should be nerfed.

You should ask your self why the warrior needs all that to be viable. Why do we need AoE burst/CC? There is stealth, AI Spam, good mobile classes that we MUST CC before landing damage otherwise we will not do nothing because we dont have pets/AI to to damage for us.

Why do we need good condition removal/sustain? We dont have stealth, protection, ports, z axis movements and again we dont have pets/AI to take damage for us.

And we dont have a true invulnerability skill. We have one (two traited) physical damage imunity skill for 4 sec. You are efected by all soft/hard CC and conditions.
We have one skill that gives 100% less condition duration for 8 seconds. You can be hard CC (and even soft cc with +% condition builds) and get hit hard by physical damage.
We have one (two traited) stances that give stability and one signet but you can be burst down with physical damage and conditions. There is not a single true invulnerabilty skill in warrior skills.

First fix all the other things that are wrong in this game. After that fix warrior.
There is a reason for warriors being buffed to what they are now. People just need to see the metas we had til now and the stronger classes and their possibilities. After people realise that, warrior is perfectly fine.

dont just splatter nonsense, most of the stuff you mention isnt even in the original post, silentnight.

@red falcon: unsuspecting foe is (and especially will be after para fix) no problem outside mace / gs, the other stuns are 1-2 seconds max, you cant get a lot of swings in there, its even totally ok for an adept trait if there wasnt the ridiculous mace stun.

removing 3 conditions every burst (up to 6-10 seconds) passively from a trait that also grants extra adrenaline is another story though. know any other class that gets something similar? no, some warrior builds get all their condition removal from a single passive trait with increased adrenaline regeneration even, really? i would rather warrior had more options to condition remove instead of one must have trait along with a synergy trait burst mastery that makes it really over the top.

generally there is so few viable warrior builds now because of many things the OP mentioned, still the warrior could use some buffs to other aspects of their gameplay. but this thread isnt about buffs, its about nerfs to things that stand out and are responsible for all the warriors running the same builds.

I think this is a Q.Q invasion by someone who couldn’t deal. I’m in the top percentile for soloQ, and I can tell you that while warriors are indeed in a good place, they are not unkillable as you make it seem.

And now, you come in here, and want to nerf all the heals WORSE than they were and institute “changes” ?

Parasigil gets nerfed in less than 10 days —→hammah_macestun builds get shaved.

Steelo.4597:

removing 3 conditions every burst (up to 6-10 seconds) passively from a trait that also grants extra adrenaline is another story though. know any other class that gets something similar? no, some warrior builds get all their condition removal from a single passive trait with increased adrenaline regeneration even, really? i would rather warrior had more options to condition remove instead of one must have trait along with a synergy trait burst mastery that makes it really over the top.

It’s not a one trait thing. It’s a 50 trait points combo put together to archieve one effect. And you know what ? Quick burst has worked this way SINCE LAUNCH and the only “boost” to it was the general discipline rework that made it more critty and gave lowered recharge. Which, to a quickburst user as I was, meant a 1 second shave on burst recharge (crit bonus is nice tho and makes disc builds a lot more viable).

The solution is to wait til oct, THEN play for a week and THEN complain.
I swear the people that come down to this forum sometimes….

If it were up to me:

• Fix sigil of paralyzation
• Change Unsuspecting Foe from 50% to 20% to better reflect its status as a 10pt trait
• Change healing signet to 300HP/sec base, but increase the scaling so that it reaches the same amount that it does now with 1500 healing power

That’s it. Warriors have a number of viable builds right now and are in a great spot. This just cleans up some of the crutches. Unsuspecting Foe builds are still viable. Even with base precision Unsuspecting + Signet of Rage fury will provide close to 50% critical rate. Players now have to make a bit more conscious of a choice if they want to crit their follow-ups reliably, or if they just want to be Casey up to bat.

Healing Signet is also in a great spot. Nerfing it from 400 to 300 makes it just slightly less of a no brainer for most builds, while increasing the scaling keeps its current effectiveness intact for those who have sacrificed stats for healing power.

Steelo.4597:

dont just splatter nonsense, most of the stuff you mention isnt even in the original post, silentnight.

The post is about shaving something that dont need to be shaved, unless all other “nonsenses” be fixed.

All i said its true.

Healing Signet is fine- If they change it around your idea they will ruin it. The whole concept is that you don’t have to spec for it and it will still give you a decent heal option.
Poison wrecks it – it is balanced.

Poison countering Healing Signet is a myth of the warrior forums.

FirstBlood.7359:

Poison countering Healing Signet is a myth of the warrior forums.

It helps a lot. Other counter is direct damage burst. thieves and mesmers are doing fine.

Alys Florent.1359:

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.

Uh, no thanks. That’s reverse synergy, which is silly.

• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.

This is a sigil issue, not aWar issue. It’s gonna be fixed soon anyway.

• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.

Healing signet used to be around 200 hp/s base. It was buffed for a reason.

• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.

Uh, no? They’re both perfect as is.

• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.

It grants 1 strike, which means you need to be punched in the face 10 times for a single bar. It’s fine as is.

• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.

While the passive IS worthless, signets need to be balanced around both effects; its active is pretty good.

• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

Again, no. IMO, banners need an overhaul, not some pointless duration/cd change.

any thoughts?

You have no real reason for any of these requested changes, except some vague notion of balance.

silentnight warrior.2714:

FirstBlood.7359:

Poison countering Healing Signet is a myth of the warrior forums.

It helps a lot. Other counter is direct damage burst. thieves and mesmers are doing fine.

Poison and burst damage literally cripples the spec, however I haven’t fought a Necromancer or Engineer or Thief who uses this in the meta, only condition-tank ones. When the meta changes and we see more burst styles again Warriors won’t be as strong as they are now. However people refuse to Adjust to them. Its easier to nerf then to adapt.

I play a power necromancer, my weakness for example is stealth thieves because I can’t target them to perform my combinations, this means my minions can’t chain knockdown or cripple them. (I strip stability with my attacks, so it does not help against me) I spam burst damage and poison and trash most warriors who run signet, Did you know I can still use my minions abilities when i’m stunned? This allows me to knockdown/poison warriors even if they stun me and still hurt them!

Power Damage is the key, most of these warriors you fear so much are specced FOR THE META, making themselves very tanky against conditions. However if you fight them using Power Damage, they literally melt.

Rock, Paper, Scissors

Here is what I see:

Dear Anet,

Rock is overpowered, nerf its power down a lot. Paper is fine.

Love, Scissors.

So, power damage is the solution against meta warriors that run soldier’s gear/amulet? LOL!

FirstBlood.7359:

So, power damage is the solution against meta warriors that run soldier’s gear/amulet? LOL!

Didn’t know they had Soldiers gear in Spvp.

However yes, toughness isn’t much of a threat without protection. If you hybridize your power and condition damage instead of focusing on just one you can literally melt them.

Daecollo.9578:

Didn’t know they had Soldiers gear in Spvp.

However yes, toughness isn’t much of a threat without protection. If you hybridize your power and condition damage instead of focusing on just one you can literally melt them.

What? The meta warrior has 40 – 45% damage reduction simply by the high armor value. Warriors don’t need protection to be tanky. In the current metagame damage reduction via armor is superior to protection. Protection – as a boon- can be easily stripped by S/D thieves. High armor, however, cannot be countered, except for conditions. Conditions are easily countered by Berserker’s stance and Cleansing Ire. In summary, neither conditions nor power damage pose a threat to the meta warrior.

Hybrid? Power and condition damage? Don’t get me started on this one.

FirstBlood.7359:

Daecollo.9578:

Didn’t know they had Soldiers gear in Spvp.

However yes, toughness isn’t much of a threat without protection. If you hybridize your power and condition damage instead of focusing on just one you can literally melt them.

What? The meta warrior has 40 – 45% damage reduction simply by the high armor value. Warriors don’t need protection to be tanky. In the current metagame damage reduction via armor is superior to protection. Protection – as a boon- can be easily stripped by S/D thieves. High armor, however, cannot be countered, except for conditions. Conditions are easily countered by Berserker’s stance and Cleansing Ire. In summary, neither conditions nor power damage pose a threat to the meta warrior.

Hybrid? Power and condition damage? Don’t get me started on this one.

42% if you use soldiers and 30 in toughness.

Meanwhile, Guardians get 42% + 10-15% + another 33%.

S/D thieves are getting a huge nerf soon.

That’s not how damage reduction works. High armor values interact with the effect of protection. Protection benefits an elementalist more than hearvy armor class with Soldier’s Amulet. That’s why top level guardians such as Arken run Berzerkers Amulet. Access to protection renders high armor/toughness useless.

S/D thieves will strip one buff instead of two. That’s not a “huge nerf”, because most classes cannot spam boons.

You said it: 42% damage reduction and the highest health pool in the game. Combine that with Shield Stance and Endure Pain. Again, how does power damage counter the meta warrior?

FirstBlood.7359:

You said it: 42% damage reduction and the highest health pool in the game. Combine that with Shield Stance and Endure Pain. Again, how does power damage counter the meta warrior?

The meta warrior is strong against conditions, but a lot weaker against power damage.

There are unblockable attacks (thief)/marks(necro) and blocks (guardians) in this game that renders Shield Stance Useless.

Endure Pain last 4 seconds on a 60sec Cd. You can trait to have it on <25% Hp left. But you dont have protection, evades (well you got one on GS, that its not a Automatic gap closer and dont leave you right on your target), blinks, ports, stealth and real invulnerability. Other classes have similar ways to avoid direct damage. Warrior cannot avoid direct damage, only mitigate the same with those 2 skills and blocks. And both have a very short duration and a high Cd.

wow…you know not every warrior is OP, cuz that’s exactly what it sounds like most of you are saying here. Warrior’s get eaten alive by condi’s. Even if they bring Berserker Stance, warriors either just get kited, or ignored and usually end up chasing someone just so they save their burst and not waste it during berserker’s stance.

Adrenal Health needs no nerf at all. we get 360 health every 3 seconds, assuming we don’t use any adrenaline… I can understand healing signet getting toned down a bit, but ever since it was buffed, lots of people have been using it. It was just about useless before. The only thing I saw it being used for was 5signet burst builds :P
And if signet of stamina only removed like 2-3 conditions, then wtf. What else is there for condition cleanse aside from mending? mending is an okay condi cleanse…but not really. It’s okay with restorative strength, but the heal amount is still pretty low.
Healing Surge needs no nerf at all, not even the cooldown.

It’s not entirely the builds that are “OP” but it all comes down to player skill/strategy vs classes. You can’t just hope that because you have a good build means that you’re going win every single time…

CMstorm.8679:

wow…you know not every warrior is OP, cuz that’s exactly what it sounds like most of you are saying here. Warrior’s get eaten alive by condi’s. Even if they bring Berserker Stance, warriors either just get kited, or ignored and usually end up chasing someone just so they save their burst and not waste it during berserker’s stance.

Adrenal Health needs no nerf at all. we get 360 health every 3 seconds, assuming we don’t use any adrenaline… I can understand healing signet getting toned down a bit, but ever since it was buffed, lots of people have been using it. It was just about useless before. The only thing I saw it being used for was 5signet burst builds :P
And if signet of stamina only removed like 2-3 conditions, then wtf. What else is there for condition cleanse aside from mending? mending is an okay condi cleanse…but not really. It’s okay with restorative strength, but the heal amount is still pretty low.
Healing Surge needs no nerf at all, not even the cooldown.

It’s not entirely the builds that are “OP” but it all comes down to player skill/strategy vs classes. You can’t just hope that because you have a good build means that you’re going win every single time…

Honestly, if it does need nerfed. We should get a Grandmaster healing trait like every other class does. You seen how much healing some of the traits other classes have can do? Its ridiculous.

Healing Signet is easy to target because its easy to calculate and everyone can pick on it, because its so simple. Its just a huge target. They put almost ALL of our survivability into ONE skill instead of spreading it around… We don’t have Protection, Evades, Aegis, Perma-Vigor, Blind-Spam, Teleports, Stealth like other classes get.

Give us a trait like other classes receive, THEN lower it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Grandmaster-Trait-Idea-Adrenal-Recovery/first#post2920179

Alys Florent.1359:

Let’s face it, warriors are in a great place right now. Even when we stop hard-countering the current/slightly past meta, we’ll still be doing very well. We got a bit over-buffed in recent months, and some changes are going to have to be made to appease the frothing masses of QQers. Here are my ideas.

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

a lot of this is unlikely ot happen with the exception of the paralysis thing. healing sig is fine complaints will be likely ignored the worst we may see is a extended cd but the heal is likely to stay. warriors don’t have much defense other then armor and endure pain you need to heal to compensate. hence the reason they have so much healing skills. infact their improving the warriors heal abilities again with the next balance update (25% for shout healers scale better too) see dacellos comment to see my opinion on healing sig nerf.

burst mastery is also fine even with ire. that’s 50 traits going into non dps line and lack luster in defense truth be told.

sig of paralyss needs fixed earth shaker and skull crack are getting slightly weakend but not enough that it will matter and it won’t satisfy those calling the skills op.

sig of rage most commonly used warrior trait never even heard it called op and I know it doesn’t need a buff that include the passive.

bannars battle standard can be the single best skill a warrior has if the warrior knows how / when to use it. all the banners are in a pretty nice spot just get the job that needs to be done done.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Steelo.4597:

what i miss here is a nerf to mace -> 100b with unsuspecting foe – but besides that, good choices. i still want the mace stun duration lowered and buffs to mace #3 instead.

If they were to touch mace at all, I’d rather see a wind up time added to skull crack. That thing comes out bloody fast for a 4s stun on a 7s cooldown, something similar to eviscerate. I mean, imagine if eviscerate or killshot came out that fast.

exist already in the form of glass back stab thieves.

Daecollo.9578:

silentnight warrior.2714:

FirstBlood.7359:

Poison countering Healing Signet is a myth of the warrior forums.

It helps a lot. Other counter is direct damage burst. thieves and mesmers are doing fine.

Poison and burst damage literally cripples the spec, however I haven’t fought a Necromancer or Engineer or Thief who uses this in the meta, only condition-tank ones. When the meta changes and we see more burst styles again Warriors won’t be as strong as they are now. However people refuse to Adjust to them. Its easier to nerf then to adapt.

I play a power necromancer, my weakness for example is stealth thieves because I can’t target them to perform my combinations, this means my minions can’t chain knockdown or cripple them. (I strip stability with my attacks, so it does not help against me) I spam burst damage and poison and trash most warriors who run signet, Did you know I can still use my minions abilities when i’m stunned? This allows me to knockdown/poison warriors even if they stun me and still hurt them!

Power Damage is the key, most of these warriors you fear so much are specced FOR THE META, making themselves very tanky against conditions. However if you fight them using Power Damage, they literally melt.

Rock, Paper, Scissors

Here is what I see:

Dear Anet,

Rock is overpowered, nerf its power down a lot. Paper is fine.

Love, Scissors.

dieing laugh and used to play a power necro too before I changed to condition sort of miss that old build.

oh and your right on the money direct damage breaks the build like little pieces of paper.

wildfang.9670:

Daecollo.9578:

silentnight warrior.2714:

FirstBlood.7359:

Poison countering Healing Signet is a myth of the warrior forums.

It helps a lot. Other counter is direct damage burst. thieves and mesmers are doing fine.

Poison and burst damage literally cripples the spec, however I haven’t fought a Necromancer or Engineer or Thief who uses this in the meta, only condition-tank ones. When the meta changes and we see more burst styles again Warriors won’t be as strong as they are now. However people refuse to Adjust to them. Its easier to nerf then to adapt.

I play a power necromancer, my weakness for example is stealth thieves because I can’t target them to perform my combinations, this means my minions can’t chain knockdown or cripple them. (I strip stability with my attacks, so it does not help against me) I spam burst damage and poison and trash most warriors who run signet, Did you know I can still use my minions abilities when i’m stunned? This allows me to knockdown/poison warriors even if they stun me and still hurt them!

Power Damage is the key, most of these warriors you fear so much are specced FOR THE META, making themselves very tanky against conditions. However if you fight them using Power Damage, they literally melt.

Rock, Paper, Scissors

Here is what I see:

Dear Anet,

Rock is overpowered, nerf its power down a lot. Paper is fine.

Love, Scissors.

dieing laugh and used to play a power necro too before I changed to condition sort of miss that old build.

oh and your right on the money direct damage breaks the build like little pieces of paper.

Alys Florent.1359:

Let’s face it, warriors are in a great place right now. Even when we stop hard-countering the current/slightly past meta, we’ll still be doing very well. We got a bit over-buffed in recent months, and some changes are going to have to be made to appease the frothing masses of QQers. Here are my ideas.

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

The first idea is solid.

Healing signet should also scale more with HP, although your estimations would be far to steep to be considered ‘shaving’.

Other healing skills are ok.

The only problem is that these nerfs, like many only address the builds known by the community (meta builds that certain players run for a while first).

There are builds that make Lyssa and burst mastery sub-optimal, which will probably arise this year. These builds won’t get shaved much, however nerfing healing signet is your best bet for addressing all warrior issues.

Alys Florent.1359:

Let’s face it, warriors are in a great place right now. Even when we stop hard-countering the current/slightly past meta, we’ll still be doing very well. We got a bit over-buffed in recent months, and some changes are going to have to be made to appease the frothing masses of QQers. Here are my ideas.

• Burst Mastery: Should no longer refund adrenaline, but rather prevent it from being spent at all. This way, using the burst at full adrenaline will only cure 2 conditions instead of 3 when Cleansing Ire is also equipped.
• Sigil of Paralyzation: Currently broken. Extends stun duration by much longer than intended. Also, should not be able to be stacked to get +30% stun duration, even after it’s been fixed.
• Healing Signet: Base heal should be reduced. Base heal should be 220-ish with 0 healing power and 400-ish with 1500 healing power. Reduce cast time of active effect to compensate.
• Healing Surge: Heal scaling should be increased for all adrenaline levels and recharge increased to 35 or 40 seconds, to make it on par with Signet of Resolve.
• Mending: Cast time should be reduced to 1/2 second, like Healing Spring. Should only cure 2 conditions to compensate, and perhaps have its base heal reduced.
• Cleansing Ire: Adrenaline gain should be reduced by around 33%.
• Signet of Rage: Passive effect should grant more adrenaline.
• Banner duration should be reduced to 60 seconds, and recharge reduced to around 100 seconds (Warbanner excepted).

any thoughts?

Burst Mastery: The idea of a 30 point trait conflicting with a 20 point trait does not make any sense whatsoever. Traits are supposed to compliment each other not inherently work against each other.

Sigil: It is getting fixed soon

Healing Signet: Pre-buff it was around 190 hp/s, bringing it down to 220 hps will make it unused once again. It isn’t an overwhelmingly used heal because there are alot of people who prefer Healing Surge. Bringing it down to 300 hps, but increasing the scaling sounds fair. 6,000 HP every 20 seconds sounds about pretty good.

Healing Surge: Healing Surge healing values and cooldown are perfectly fine. A balanced heal IMO, forcing you to choose between adrenaline or higher healing. However I think a better option to consider is that you gain adrenaline over a period of time.

Mending: Mending used to be a crappier version of Consume Conditions. They buffed Mending but it is still an underutilized heal and shaving the cast time on it won’t help. Removing 3 conditions is good, I think this heal is fine for helping to deal with extra conditions, it is a good alternative if you lack condition removal.

Cleansing Ire: I do think that the adrenaline gain by it needs to be shaved off a little bit, not sure if 33% is quite the number I was thinking of. Or they could change it to reflect gains based on how much percentage HP you take in damage.

Signet of Rage: I think the passive needs to be changed altogether.

Banners: It needs a complete overhaul.

Healing Signet (Bring it down in pvp only 25% so its 298 hp/s.)
However bring its scaled up with healing power from 0.05 to 0.15. There is no reason a trait or a boon should have more healing power scaling then a healing skill. The skill is fine in PvE less you buff our healing some how in other areas.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Grandmaster-Trait-Idea-Adrenal-Recovery/first#post2924952

Healing Signet isn’t very good against people who know how to play against it, and the meta is about to shift against it when it gets away from condition damage.

(Make Mending more like it was in GW1, a short heal over time.)

Mending (20 second cooldown.)
You and regenerate health over time. Cures a condition every second.
Health per second: 1612 (0.25)?
Duration: 5 s

(383 Hp/S) (Good heal for using, cures conditions over time.)

Healing Surge (30 second cooldown.)
Healing: 9,820 (1.50)?
Protection: 6 s
Regeneration: 6 s (780 health.)
Adrenaline: 30

(341 Hp/S) (Good burst heal, less HPS but offers some support for 6 seconds.)

I know we shouldn’t get protection, however there is almost no way to make this skill different from the other ones without giving it something unique, and the only thing I can think of is protection. Why use Surge over the other heals when it heals less? It needs something like Hide in Shadows cures conditions AND stealths, I want this to be a burst of help like that.

Wow, your ideas are not shaving but rather huge nerfs to the class as a whole.

Daecollo.9578:

Healing Signet (Bring it down in pvp only 25% so its 298 hp/s.)
However bring its scaled up with healing power from 0.05 to 0.15. There is no reason a trait or a boon should have more healing power scaling then a healing skill. The skill is fine in PvE less you buff our healing some how in other areas.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Grandmaster-Trait-Idea-Adrenal-Recovery/first#post2924952

Healing Signet isn’t very good against people who know how to play against it, and the meta is about to shift against it when it gets away from condition damage.

---

(Make Mending more like it was in GW1, a short heal over time.)

Mending (20 second cooldown.)
You and regenerate health over time. Cures a condition every second.
Health per second: 1612 (0.25)?
Duration: 5 s

(383 Hp/S) (Good heal for using, cures conditions over time.)

---

Healing Surge (30 second cooldown.)
Healing: 9,820 (1.50)?
Protection: 6 s
Regeneration: 6 s (780 health.)
Adrenaline: 30

(341 Hp/S) (Good burst heal, less HPS but offers some support for 6 seconds.)

I know we shouldn’t get protection, however there is almost no way to make this skill different from the other ones without giving it something unique, and the only thing I can think of is protection. Why use Surge over the other heals when it heals less? It needs something like Hide in Shadows cures conditions AND stealths, I want this to be a burst of help like that.

Agreed. healing signet is currently shining against sustain type builds, but is easily over powered by spike type builds. Currently glass canons/spike builds just aren’t in vogue, hence why it gives the illusion healing signet is much stronger than it seems.

heal signet is OP , too good without HP , but HP does not improve it well . Find a balance

Warrior doesn’t need any “shaving”. The class is still under represented in finalists teams of major tournaments. It still isn’t apparent if Warrior is even capable of competing for top team spots yet. Changing any current features could tip them right back in the dumpster.

People keep running around screaming that the sky is falling, but their only real purpose is changing the game in their own favor. Reality is that current data still shows Warriors lagging behind. It’s going to take more major tournaments to show where they really stand. Today is a new invitational, more hard numbers.

Even after the balance patch; Rang, Nec, Guard, and to a lesser extent Thief have been over represented. The other 4 profs, including Warr, are heavily under. Let’s see what happens at MLG.

Realistically, Sigil of Paralysation is the only thing that needs changing. And it’s getting it’s change.

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/

I don’t think wars need any shaving…

The solution is buffs to other classes, not nerfs.

wildfang.9670:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Steelo.4597:

what i miss here is a nerf to mace -> 100b with unsuspecting foe – but besides that, good choices. i still want the mace stun duration lowered and buffs to mace #3 instead.

If they were to touch mace at all, I’d rather see a wind up time added to skull crack. That thing comes out bloody fast for a 4s stun on a 7s cooldown, something similar to eviscerate. I mean, imagine if eviscerate or killshot came out that fast.

exist already in the form of glass back stab thieves.

No, it doesn’t. The thief stun in that case is from basilisk venom, which does not last as long and is not on a 7s cooldown. If skull crack was on a 30+s recharge, then I don’t think the fast speed of it would be a problem at all.

wildfang.9670:

burst mastery is also fine even with ire. that’s 50 traits going into non dps line and lack luster in defense truth be told.

I don’t see how you end up at this conclusion.

In the discipline line, burst mastery directly improves your DPS even without the burst recharge, you can have a much higher might uptime, and you have easier access to the weapon skills you need at any particular time, not to mentioning giving you the ability to move around faster on the battlefield.

The defense line allows you to heal yourself passively, build even more adrenaline, and keep conditions off of you so that they won’t hamper your DPS or force you to retreat or play defensively.

In fact, those two lines are actually excellent trait lines for ensuring you never have to stop attacking your opponent. I’d say that’s one of the best methods of improving DPS, especially since one of the main counters to warriors will be to try and ensure that they simply can’t hit you.

Yamsandjams.3267:

wildfang.9670:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Steelo.4597:

what i miss here is a nerf to mace -> 100b with unsuspecting foe – but besides that, good choices. i still want the mace stun duration lowered and buffs to mace #3 instead.

If they were to touch mace at all, I’d rather see a wind up time added to skull crack. That thing comes out bloody fast for a 4s stun on a 7s cooldown, something similar to eviscerate. I mean, imagine if eviscerate or killshot came out that fast.

exist already in the form of glass back stab thieves.

No, it doesn’t. The thief stun in that case is from basilisk venom, which does not last as long and is not on a 7s cooldown. If skull crack was on a 30+s recharge, then I don’t think the fast speed of it would be a problem at all.

wildfang.9670:

burst mastery is also fine even with ire. that’s 50 traits going into non dps line and lack luster in defense truth be told.

I don’t see how you end up at this conclusion.

In the discipline line, burst mastery directly improves your DPS even without the burst recharge, you can have a much higher might uptime, and you have easier access to the weapon skills you need at any particular time, not to mentioning giving you the ability to move around faster on the battlefield.

The defense line allows you to heal yourself passively, build even more adrenaline, and keep conditions off of you so that they won’t hamper your DPS or force you to retreat or play defensively.

In fact, those two lines are actually excellent trait lines for ensuring you never have to stop attacking your opponent. I’d say that’s one of the best methods of improving DPS, especially since one of the main counters to warriors will be to try and ensure that they simply can’t hit you.

Adrenal Health can be as low as 40 hp/s unless you don’t spend your adrenaline.

Where’s that guy who makes all those hilarious drawings of the warrior? I seriously expected to see a cartoon pic of a warrior shaving. I’m disappointed.