Guild Wars 2

Sup guys,

An idea for a little psychological experiment hit me and I’m hoping that some of you guys could help out.

What I’m looking to find is what its like fighting against a Mesmer (Shatter, Lockdown, and/or Condi) as a Warrior? I have a few questions going forward:

• What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?

• How do you feel about your odds of winning?

• Strategies and tactics?

• Which type of Warrior build do you feel best fights Mesmer?

• What Warrior skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?

• How do you feel about Mesmer in general?

Along with anything else you’d like to add. My plan is to make a thread in the Mes forums detailing and explaining how fighting us feels for other classes, and hopefully learn some things along the way. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

In my experience (4/4/6 Lockdown Mesmer) Warriors are opponents you never actually want to fight, but end up having to sooner or later. I use Sword/focus-staff, so I have a bit of an advantage in that my focus Phantasm (spinning axe-wielding iWarden) can completely negate projectiles, rendering most of the Longbow useless for it’s duration. Otherwise the firefield is a nightmare, and whatever is in the Warrior’s offset is also a nightmare. The most frustrating thing fighting a Warrior is how they just never seem to simply die. There’s always a smidgen of life left that will eventually regenerate into half life if I don’t bust my kitten to try and put the War down. That survivability has to be respected though, I’ve seen Warriors do a lit with very little life.

I rarely find a Warrior that can beat me, and more often have stalemated with quite a few, but the few who do are fantastic at the class and I have nothing but praise for their ability.

Cool topic!
First off, I’d like to add I play very little ranked arena. So my opinion may or may not be in agreement with more competitive players’s.

Answering your questions:

1- What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?

Firstly, I feel frustrated. Fighting mesmers just isnt fun. As a warrior, you’re gonna get toyed with and feel like a dog chasing a cat that its just faster than you… Its annoying, to say the least. However, I try to come up with the following mindset to over come it:
“Time to solve a puzzle” I feel like it will be a battle different than the most. I’ll have to focus much more on my opponent’s positioning and the way he and his ilusions move rather than my combos and attacks to dodge.
I dont get scared, I dont feel like my chances are slim. I just feel like I’m about to face an opponent that will require attention, focus and patience over skill and quick fingers, and if I let my frustration speak louder than my patience, I might aswell lose.

2- How do you feel about your odds of winning?

I feel like with some builds I’m more succesful, others less. Builds with more AoE and more tanky seem to perform better, and nowadays I’ve been playing Hambow. So as of late, I’ve been feeling very comfortable against mesmers… It may sometimes take a little while to find and stun-lock the right guy. But I know that when I do, even if I’m already half-health, I probably will deal tons of damage and get the upper hand.

3- Strategies and Tactics:

Keep a close eye and try to find the “right guy”. Try to remain calm and not get frustrated and just start bashing whatever moving thing that I see.
As hambow, I try to get rid of the mass of ilusions with Longbow’s “3” and F1 aswell as Hammer AoE, and save backbreaker with F1 to when I find the right guy for a good damage combo. Also save Longbow’s “5” for the right mesmer…
Basically, save the single target heavy damage to when you’re certain you’ve found the right guy.

Continuing…

4-Which type of Warrior build do you feel best fights Mesmer?

I feel like the worst build against it is the Axe/Shield thing, that focus on eviscerate burst. Its just too easy to dodge, and when there’s so many ilusions around, trusting your damage in that “one” skill so heavilly is just bad.
Condition is a toss up on wether or not you’ll be able to apply a lot of bleed stacks, and wether or not the mesmer can clear them up… Sometimes I manage to land a good sword F1 and the mesmer just appears dead somehwere around, but more oftne than not I’m running around, seeking the right one, without sucess..
Latelly, hambow worked best for me against mesmers.

5- What Warrior skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?

I like Berserker’s Rage to keep me from getting conditions. Signet of Rage, of course, for swiftness. And good AoE aswell as some good stun combo. When you find the right guy, you want to be sure you’ll hold him down long enough for you to make good use of the oportunity.

6- In a pvp perspective, I dont like to fight against them. They’re frustrating, and the battles normally take way longer than I’d like, even when I win. (Except when the mesmer sucks and gets caught easilly)
The frustration to fight against them comes way more from the sensatio you’re being toyed with all the time rather than the difficulty itself. Though I admit, fighting a mesmer requires more focus and experience than, say, fighting another warrior.
I like challenges, but Mesmers are just annoying. I never tried BEING one, however. So I can only say what I feel from an opponent’s eyes.
I dont find them to be broken, however. Their 1v1 is very strong but it gets balanced out by the fact I dont see mesmers faring as well on group fights as the other classes, I’d guess its because the massive AoE just clears their illusions too quickly, and even when hiding the mesmer ends up getting hit a lot by aoe spam.

Condition or hybrid is your best chance

or zerker gs war, but it takes some skills to use that.

If you only plan to duel any of them.

best bet is you can’t win if they decide to kit you and they are actually good.
you have a winning chance against shatter, lockdown will be abit more difficult and condi will be really difficult.

since most mesmer builds are weak against condition except for some aids condi build.

and about builds, shoutheal have a decent chance win against them more then most other war builds.

Every good Mesmer will win against a Warrior. Unless the War plays Condi with Stuns and Perplexity or the Mesmer makes a huge mistake on his “rotation”

What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?
Look for mantra’s. Look for weaponset (scepter? staff? greatsword?) if in WvW (What food is the mesmer running? Condi? Power?) This all already tells me what kind of battle I’m about to get myself into.

How do you feel about your odds of winning?
Very good, unless I get caught off guard by a condi spec when I expect a burst spec.

Strategies and tactics?
Condi? Brawler’s recovery + Reflect projectiles to just show the mesmer how silly he is. Power? Go for stances, dont overlap the usage of your stances at the same time, its useless (dont endure pain and berserker stance, you just waste damage mitigation).

Which type of Warrior build do you feel best fights Mesmer?
Depends completely on the way you play. Mace+shield + hammer to troll condi mesmers back, Mace+shield+GS to finish him off faster. GS+Hammer for anything else and just pay close attention and don’t over extend.

What Warrior skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?
Signet of Stamina + Berserkerstance when dealing with condi. Anything else its really about the dodge skill. Got to time the incoming burst (is a GS mesmer very close to you and he steps forward or his #4 animation starts? Begin the dodge because you’re about to get clone bursted for example) Beside that I’d say endure pain (when you run out of endurance this can quickly save you from getting 50% of your hp bar at least being stripped away from you).

How do you feel about Mesmer in general?
Hate them. All they do is run away and let their clones fight their battles. I am a Norn kitten it. Fight me like a real man!

What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?

Usually what build the Mesmer is. I mainly encounter PU Condi or shatter mesmers. If a PU mesmer, I usually let out a huge sigh but say to hell with it I will try my hand. If a shatter mesmer, I am usually like alright, he is playing shatter mesmer, most people who play shatter mesmer aren’t complete scrubs at the game so I will have to keep on my toes.

How do you feel about your odds of winning?

Against PU condi, I know my odds aren’t very high, maybe 50/50 against a bad PU condi mesmer. But against a half way decent player I will most likely lose. Against a GOOD shatter mesmer, my chances of losing are higher than winning, but fortunately not a lot of people are so I like my chances a bit better.

Strategies and tactics?

Against a PU Condi, I feel it is important to make him waste and blow cooldowns and keep the pressure high. Also to anticipate their positioning in stealth while being strategic when using condi clears. Against a shatter, the main thing is to anticipate their shatters, obviously keep the pressure high constantly and even cleave their clones to prevent shatters. Most importantly I think, instantly being able to recognize the real mesmer.

Which type of Warrior build do you feel best fights Mesmer?

Obviously condition builds would be naturally as most Mesmers do not pack condition removal. Certain hybrid builds that use sword/longbow as well. Even Mace/GS isn’t that bad because of all the blocks, being allowed to build more tanky, GS is a great cleaving weapon plus gives you an extra evade plus cripple and gap closer. Hammer I feel is a terrible weapon vs a Mesmer and most power builds are disadvantaged. This is across the board.

What Warrior skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?

Against a PU Condi Mesmer, Berserker Stance is probably your best friend. Prevents condis from going on you pretty much making you immune to their damage output for 8 seconds while you put pressure on them, while being able to clear condis using the adrenaline you gain.

Against a shatter mesmer, Endure Pain is your best friend, allowing you to completely mitigate what could potentially be a fight changing shatter. Shield Stance would also fit in that category. Also any gap closers are your best friend to allow yourself to deal damage to them.

How do you feel about Mesmer in general?

I actually love fighting Shatter Mesmers because it really is a good fight whose outcome is based on how well you dodge and how well you can keep pressure, and balancing them both. Lockdown Mesmers and Phantasm I don’t mind too much either.

PU condi mesmers are pretty much a snoozefest. All they do is go invis, spam clones, torment or winds of chaos and teleport/kite you all day till you die. It is just a very anti-fun, slow and frustrating fight overall that usually doesn’t end up in your favour. That’s pretty much my only gripe.

Pretty much everything has been summed up above. I hate fighting a mesmer on my warrior, its just not fun on top of being a counter. As for specifics:
My odds will be higher if in wielding a GS against a lockdown or shatter.
There is no way ill kill a torment mesmer unless i run condi hybrid with a lot of cleanse.
Staff teleport gets makes me mad.
Kiting with stealth and blinks makes it much harder for me to land burst on you.
Oh and birdie is very annoying when fighting on open field.

In PvP its not a huge problem as ill decap until my team gets in or ill just die on point. In wvw however i change so much on my build solely to kill mesmers.
1) I run GS/Axe shield and take leg specialist over great fortitude just so i can land eviscerate after axe 3 or gs 4.
2) I take mobile strikes in case lockdown (also helps against rangers and escaping zergs). The oppotunity cost of doing this is about 9% pure damage as im not taking destruction of the empowered.
3) I run the condi food which is again a dps loss.

From my experience as a roamer;

• What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?*

Looking for signs of what the mesmer is running. If it is power, I know the mesmer has to be quite good to beat me. If it is condi, not so much.

• How do you feel about your odds of winning?*

If it is power, and the mesmer is decent and/or uses staff, I will lose more then I will win. Staff just absolutely wrecks a power warrior in roaming, mostly because of the insanely low cooldown on the teleport.
If it is condi, the mesmer really does not have to play half decent in order to stand a chance. The upside is most mesmers that play this cancerous spec are incredibads, so I do win more then I lose. A well played PU mes is invincible against a warrior in straight up 1v1 if he does not spec longbow, and even then it is a bad match-up.

• Strategies and tactics?*

Make sure to dodge the obvious shatter combo’s, like sword#3. Kill phantasms ASAP, and use whirlwind offensively if the opportunity arrises. Usually, a power mes is squishy as hell if you manage to reach him, whirlwind is what nets me the win most of the time. Leg specialist also helps a lot to land crucial hits.
Against PU I will always keep Rush off of cooldown in case I need to kite or reset, as I will never submit to a loss against this spec. It feels more of a loss against Anet or GW2 in general then the outcome of a difference in skill.

• Which type of Warrior build do you feel best fights Mesmer?*

GS is the preferred weapon to me here. Longbow excels against PU condi, so there is that. I do not like facing a power mesmer on GS/longbow tho, as longbow has pretty much no active defense.
Hammer is actually quite bad IMO if you don’t spec leg specialist, and if the mesmer has a staff, hammer is borderline useless.

• What Warrior skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?*

Like I said before, Whirlwind works incredibly well against any mesmer. Other then that, rush is good for kiting and does good damage if you manage a hit. Most mesmers have insane in combat mobility, so you need gap closers. Endure Pain as a utility as a clutch to mitigate a shatter combo you failed to dodge. Other then that, everything seems optional to me.

• How do you feel about Mesmer in general?*

I have a lot of respect for guys that make a shatter glass spec work, I tried it myself and find it to be quite difficult. PU condi should be removed from the game, however. Without a doubt, most braindead spec ingame IMO.
I actually started gw2 playing mesmer, but melee is more my style

Nice topic.

If you don’t fight on point I insure you that a Shatter Mesmer will win every fight, especally if the warrior plays a kittenty GS build.
It’s a safe bet that the warrior loses against an equally skilled Mesmer.
If you have to stay on a node and fight on point the result will change of course.

I don’t play warrior but main a mesmer and would like to share my side of the duel scenario.

As a shatter mesmer in spvp/pvp, the first thing I think when I see a warrior is “oh kitten. I am kittened if they aren’t brand new or help doesn’t arrive.” Fighting hambows and shoutbows in spvp/pvp should be impossible for me to win if the warrior knows what his skills do and has healing signet. I just can’t burst them down before they regain all of their hp and all my clones, phantasms and I die to the fire field or I try to run away.

As a shatter mesmer in wvw, I think the same thing as mentioned above mostly, except with hambow and shoutbow replaced with the super mobile, high burst, still good sustain of the GS wvw warrior with healing signet. I have a glimmer of hope though; if I don’t make ANY mistakes at all, I have a small chance of downing him when i am downed. It is basically the same situation for lockdown and condition shatter builds.

As an op condi PU mesmer in wvw, the first thing I think is “hah! That warrior is kittened unless he is running a condi build and cleansing ire!” I do not play condi PU in pvp or spvp and have so far not lost to a solo warrior or even 2 warriors at the same time while using it in wvw. They either run away or die slowly and painfully as my op combination of damage and strong defense overwhelms them.

Tactics and strategies I try to use: try to run if things go bad (unless in a wvw duel), keep calm and don’t get angry when you are downed (there is no point in getting angry over something that is inevitable), try to avoid being hit and try to stay out of range (as always).

Lastly, I would like to add that warriors seem to have it easier in terms of what they have to do to win the duel. All they need to do is to dodge a shatter combo and wait for the mesmer to come out of stealth (3-6 seconds depending on the skill) and move in any direction. As soon as they move, you can tell that that is the real mesmer and they become an easy target after blink and decoy have been used. Mesmers cannot patiently wait for warriors to become vulnerable. Their high toughness, large hp pool and Healing Signet will not stop working after any amount of time. Mesmers simply do not have much of a chance against a decent warrior if they aren’t running condi pu. .

Deano.5047:

Mesmers simply do not have much of a chance against a decent warrior if they aren’t running condi pu. .

Not really that’s simply a l2p issue.
I know a lot of good warrs and mesmers and it’s simple as that : If you don’t fight on node shatter mesmer wins over the long term. And I’m not reffering to hotjoin nonames or wvw heroes.
There are a lot of really, really good warriors who all have problems with shatter mesmers in 1v1, allthough they are much more skilled than the mesmer is.
If you fail every pindown and still complain about heal sig … then… well… yes…
then your statement is true… but..

dominik.9721:

Deano.5047:

Mesmers simply do not have much of a chance against a decent warrior if they aren’t running condi pu. .

Not really that’s simply a l2p issue.
I know a lot of good warrs and mesmers and it’s simple as that : If you don’t fight on node shatter mesmer wins over the long term. And I’m not reffering to hotjoin nonames or wvw heroes.
There are a lot of really, really good warriors who all have problems with shatter mesmers in 1v1, allthough they are much more skilled than the mesmer is.
If you fail every pindown and still complain about heal sig … then… well… yes…
then your statement is true… but..

Shatter mesmer beats every class except thief and medi guard in 1v1 assuming equally skilled players.

because mesmers simply have too much kitting ability for a warrior to win without node advantage, thief shuts down mesmer, because thieves have a good amount of insta gap closer to counter mesmers kitting.

in simple 1v1 not on node, mesmers can blink up to platforms that’s simply more then just 1200 because you have to go around and find stairs or jump up etc.

The thing is that Mesmer is broken but people dont realise it because thief hard counters them. If thieves didint exist, mesmer would be brokenly OP. I realise it when I’m not playing my thief.

Hammer axe-shield ftw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0070IcKe7Ek

But hambow works perfect aswell.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Hammer axe-shield ftw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0070IcKe7Ek

But hambow works perfect aswell.

No offense, but that was one of the worst mesmers i’ve ever seen.

Ofc. Otherwise you wouldn’t lose against hammer / axe
warrior played properly, though.

The fight is very one sided for the shatter mesmer. They have way too much kiting skills and imunes on very low cooldown.