Guild Wars 2

Anet,

I think its about time you actually talk to a dps guard if you want to actually help us. WE are the ONLY class that has not been talked about or brought up in Sotg’s and it is about time you ask us personally on the forums or talk to us in game. The little fury added to meditations is not nearly enough to solve the biggest issue we have. The fact that our 2 hardest hitting skills require judges to land most of the skill, and we are melee, and we have no cc/cripple/immob/chill makes me wonder if you actually understand what a dps guardian even is.

Anyone who is a decent player knows how easy it is to just avoid our burst and kite it, by just strafing. Judges does not solve that problem at. It helps us land 25-50% of our burst unless the target just dodges(randomly or not), phase retreats, etc….Therefore we waste 2 skills that have a quite a cd. That would be fine if we had more immobalizes and didn’t always get kited. But since we are melee, our main dps weapons, sword and greatsword, can be so easily kited without any immobilizes, cripple, chills, etc…WE ARE THE ONLY MELEE CLASS WITHOUT SUCH A THING.

IMHO, next time you want to help us as a dps guard, you should think about those things first, rather than giving us fury. I would rather have judges chill our target or immobalize rather than burn.

I don’t know if you intend for them to never have such a trait/skill, but every update we never get anything even worth mentioning compared to other classes. It is quite sad. I am not talking about bunker here either. I could care less about bunker. We all know bunker works. I think its about time you actually shed some light on us rather then saying in the preview, “oh and this should help you dps guardians out there a little bit,” without even asking us what we specifically lack.

They’re moving to improve the ‘support’ class. Something tells me DPS guards won’t be looked at for quite a bit.

so you want to be an unstoppable juggernaut?

DPS guards are already fine.

Guards are fine as a class.

Rangers need more work.

Stop being selfish guardians.

milo.6942:

so you want to be an unstoppable juggernaut?

That depends on where the chasing mechanics are allocated.
Guardians currently have lesser base sustain and way less health than warriors. We’re usually tanky because we invest a lot of trait poits for it (our “offensive” traitlines, specially Zeal, are lackluster at best).
Granting guardians the ability to stick to their enemies through Zeal would create either a “unstoppable juggernaut” with some serious weaknesses or no “juggernaut” at all.

The fury opened up a few opportunities for sure, even though its a small change, but i agree that dps guards still need a bit of work. Zealots defense will never hit for the damage its supposed to, because the farther back your target is, the less attacks connect, because it has issues with range, and since it locks you in place, your target can just back up a bit without even dodging and avoid over half the damage while still being “in range.” A bit of polishing would be great. Once that’s done, even though this kind of applies to quite a few classes at the moment, guardian tier 3 traits need some serious work. The way it is now, its very hard to balance a build with 30 in zeal, and right handed strength builds shouldn’t be taken outside of hotjoin IMO.

It amazes me how many people don’t understand how good guardians are, and have been since release. This was a great buff, and anything more will seriously make guardians god like. Let’s give them stealth too, tons of immobs and bleeds.

Stop complaining about a STAPLE of any real tpvp team since this game launched.

lilz shorty.1879:

Anet,

I think its about time you actually talk to a dps guard if you want to actually help us. WE are the ONLY class that has not been talked about or brought up in Sotg’s and it is about time you ask us personally on the forums or talk to us in game. The little fury added to meditations is not nearly enough to solve the biggest issue we have. The fact that our 2 hardest hitting skills require judges to land most of the skill, and we are melee, and we have no cc/cripple/immob/chill makes me wonder if you actually understand what a dps guardian even is.

Anyone who is a decent player knows how easy it is to just avoid our burst and kite it, by just strafing. Judges does not solve that problem at. It helps us land 25-50% of our burst unless the target just dodges(randomly or not), phase retreats, etc….Therefore we waste 2 skills that have a quite a cd. That would be fine if we had more immobalizes and didn’t always get kited. But since we are melee, our main dps weapons, sword and greatsword, can be so easily kited without any immobilizes, cripple, chills, etc…WE ARE THE ONLY MELEE CLASS WITHOUT SUCH A THING.

IMHO, next time you want to help us as a dps guard, you should think about those things first, rather than giving us fury. I would rather have judges chill our target or immobalize rather than burn.

I don’t know if you intend for them to never have such a trait/skill, but every update we never get anything even worth mentioning compared to other classes. It is quite sad. I am not talking about bunker here either. I could care less about bunker. We all know bunker works. I think its about time you actually shed some light on us rather then saying in the preview, “oh and this should help you dps guardians out there a little bit,” without even asking us what we specifically lack.

You’re using the wrong weapons btw, that’s probably why you think the way you do.

The devs don’t even know what the Guardian abilities look like.

It’s clear that Guardians are given very little consideration for changes that would offer more build diversity and role options within PvP, most issues and bugs have gone unchanged since beta.
Leap of Faith with its utterly hilarious accuracy issues, often leaping in the opposite direction to your target.

The devs are quite happy with Guardians being the most pigeonholed class and just being a boring bunker tank on every team in their boring stand in circles game type that promotes avoiding combat to win.
It was quite clear in the stream that they knew little and didn’t care about the Guardian, they just couldn’t wait to get to the Warrior and talk about its buffs.

More MMOs are coming, hopefully we won’t have to wait too long for them.

At least Condition Wars 2 has been free to play.

“Stop complaining about a STAPLE of any real tpvp team since this game launched.”

This is the issue with the community, you’re all very happy to have some chump on your team rolling around on mid point giving boons and clearing conditions, every team wants one but none of you would want to play it.

Divinity.8041:

It amazes me how many people don’t understand how good guardians are, and have been since release. This was a great buff, and anything more will seriously make guardians god like. Let’s give them stealth too, tons of immobs and bleeds.

Stop complaining about a STAPLE of any real tpvp team since this game launched.

If they fix some bugs that have existed since launch, id agree. The few good dps builds we have are pretty solid. A lot of us dont want buffs to the builds we have, but changes are needed to a lot of the traits that are literally never used.

DPS guardians are more than fine.

You now have fury on meditations that, with runes of rage, is equal to about 80% uptime on fury.

You can totally neglect radiance and go full on zeal and 10 on honor.

more damage on scepter and GS, perma vigor, bigger symbols, almost perma fury, one of the strongest DPS in game paired with very good survivability.

DPS guards will be the meta soon, yet you claim they’re not fine.

Mrbig.8019:

You can totally neglect radiance and go full on zeal and 10 on honor.

This is why we cant have nice things.

The only meta DPS Guardians fit into is anti-Thief. Which is why MrBig is doing his best to troll and stir the pot, all in his own favour. Nerf Rock! Paper is fine.

Fix power ranger first, DPS guard is in a way way better state than power ranger.

DPS guardians are more than fine. I have been playing DPS guards since release and was always surprised why people overlook offensive builds. Now that meditations are already instant, even more builds one can make.

If you think offensive guards are bad, then either you have spent not enough time on this class or just simple don’t understand the mechanics / builds.

So before you cry about the most balanced class in the game, please, don’t.

Ezrael.6859:

The only meta DPS Guardians fit into is anti-Thief. Which is why MrBig is doing his best to troll and stir the pot, all in his own favour. Nerf Rock! Paper is fine.

what an astounishngly well thought and smart argument.

dude dps guardians are fine, I would say even borderline OP now that you can avoid going into that horrible tratline which radiance is.

play with sceptet focus and gs, 30-0-30-10 and enjoy, than you can come back here and talk again.

silly people are silly

Mrbig.8019:

Ezrael.6859:

The only meta DPS Guardians fit into is anti-Thief. Which is why MrBig is doing his best to troll and stir the pot, all in his own favour. Nerf Rock! Paper is fine.

what an astounishngly well thought and smart argument.

dude dps guardians are fine, I would say even borderline OP now that you can avoid going into that horrible tratline which radiance is.

play with sceptet focus and gs, 30-0-30-10 and enjoy, than you can come back here and talk again.

silly people are silly

Some people are never satisfied before they have it all … and not even then. Warriors complaining about blind, Guardians complaining about not being able to immobilize people … heaven forbid teamwork. Meanwhile some classes can’t even get a foothold in any specc, but surely that is a minor issue.

Mrbig.8019:

Ezrael.6859:

The only meta DPS Guardians fit into is anti-Thief. Which is why MrBig is doing his best to troll and stir the pot, all in his own favour. Nerf Rock! Paper is fine.

what an astounishngly well thought and smart argument.

dude dps guardians are fine, I would say even borderline OP now that you can avoid going into that horrible tratline which radiance is.

play with sceptet focus and gs, 30-0-30-10 and enjoy, than you can come back here and talk again.

silly people are silly

That build has really good damage output.
Survivality wise it has no access to protection and, if triple meditation with CD reduction and Monk Focus, pretty much the same HPS as a warrior with healing signet and 20 points in defense, just with a much smaller health pool and worse condition removal.
It has horrible mobility; has a couple of gap closers (leap and JI, if slotted) but can’t keep the enemy at close range after that.
You pretty much need to perform some combo like landing an immobilize (the only condition you apply your enemy has to worry about and save removals for) and porting with JI (36 sec CD if traited) while using Whirling Wrath. Shield of Judgment can be added to the equation for a better telegraphed all-in move.

The spec hits like a truck and can be really effective if you build a team that supports it with movement boosts and impairments. If not, it has horrible mobility to perform as a roamer and is pretty weak at 1on1 (point defender/assaulter) as long as your opponent knows about meditation guardians and JI bursts.

This patch was a big boost for dps guardians. Seems like you guys complaining need to start exploring and discovery how to make dps guardian work for you.

Haha I clicked on this thread thinking “here’s the first qq thread about dps guardians being OP.” And it turned out to be the opposite. I guess the qq won’t start for a bit longer.

Vargamonth.2047:

Mrbig.8019:

Ezrael.6859:

The only meta DPS Guardians fit into is anti-Thief. Which is why MrBig is doing his best to troll and stir the pot, all in his own favour. Nerf Rock! Paper is fine.

what an astounishngly well thought and smart argument.

dude dps guardians are fine, I would say even borderline OP now that you can avoid going into that horrible tratline which radiance is.

play with sceptet focus and gs, 30-0-30-10 and enjoy, than you can come back here and talk again.

silly people are silly

That build has really good damage output.
Survivality wise it has no access to protection and, if triple meditation with CD reduction and Monk Focus, pretty much the same HPS as a warrior with healing signet and 20 points in defense, just with a much smaller health pool and worse condition removal.
It has horrible mobility; has a couple of gap closers (leap and JI, if slotted) but can’t keep the enemy at close range after that.
You pretty much need to perform some combo like landing an immobilize (the only condition you apply your enemy has to worry about and save removals for) and porting with JI (36 sec CD if traited) while using Whirling Wrath. Shield of Judgment can be added to the equation for a better telegraphed all-in move.

The spec hits like a truck and can be really effective if you build a team that supports it with movement boosts and impairments. If not, it has horrible mobility to perform as a roamer and is pretty weak at 1on1 (point defender/assaulter) as long as your opponent knows about meditation guardians and JI bursts.

it is one of the most damaging builds in the game. its survivability is way better than warrior’s due to blocks and BURST healing (aka not weak to burst damage unlike signet warriors) and hits like a truck in AoE, also giving reta to the whole team countering by itself granades spamming engies, thieves cluster bombing and all multi hit classes (rangers spamming 1).

with scepter trait you can hit up to 2k with orb of wrath with full bloodlust to squishies, a simple chain- smite-1 spamm will one shot thieves and eles. you can easily stick to most targets with the gap closers you have, and if you don’t, scepter deals about the same damage than gs so you don’t really lose that much damage.

your damage on a point is ridicolous, I can solo a bunker guardian in less than 30 secs AS A DIRECT DAMAGE BUILD and it’s all aoe.

till now I’ve yet to find a build able to defeat me 1vs1, the only reason why it won’t be a good point assaulter is due to not being able to 100% disangage if they enforce on you, but it’s a beast in teamfights and small engagements.

it won’t take long for teams (the few left) to realize how strong dps guard is, wlong with venom share thieves.

mark these words.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Haha I clicked on this thread thinking “here’s the first qq thread about dps guardians being OP.” And it turned out to be the opposite. I guess the qq won’t start for a bit longer.

Yup they haven’t figured it out yet.

Aza.2105:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Haha I clicked on this thread thinking “here’s the first qq thread about dps guardians being OP.” And it turned out to be the opposite. I guess the qq won’t start for a bit longer.

Yup they haven’t figured it out yet.

it will happen soon, don’t worry

Mrbig.8019:

Aza.2105:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Haha I clicked on this thread thinking “here’s the first qq thread about dps guardians being OP.” And it turned out to be the opposite. I guess the qq won’t start for a bit longer.

Yup they haven’t figured it out yet.

it will happen soon, don’t worry

It will take awhile, most guardian players are convinced that Anet doesn’t play the class nor cares. And they don’t address issues they perceive guardian to have.

Many guardian players don’t think outside of the box and get stuck into trying to make weapons like Mace, Shield, Hammer, GS perform in a way they aren’t designed to. Weapons like Scepter, Sword and Torch are generally perceived as being bad weapons and go unused. But its those weapons that have the solutions to many problems guardians feel the class have.

You are exactly right when you say dps guardian is amazing, its true. This patch has gave dps guardians a extraordinary boost.

I’ve never had a problem running a DPS guard because while you can’t chase someone all over the map your strength as a Guardian is in teamfights. I just played against FML yesterday and you can see the strength of Stunning Styles’ GS/Staff build in any teamfight situation.

They beat burst builds 1v1 pretty effectively b/c they have an armor advantage + protection, stability, and Renewed Focus too. If you have someone attacking far with that kind of build looking for backcaps or something, and you have a DPS guard at home they’re not going to win that 1v1 unless you’re not good at it.

DPS guard is fine. I run it with 10/25/30/0/5 and Scholar runes. Great part about dps Guard is you still have decent survivability.

I do wish they would buff the Zeal line, but other then that I’m quite pleased with it.

Guardians are mediocre at everything but bunkering. We are fine though somehow because we have one role thats really wanted. That is the attitude you will get here. Why would anyone play a dps guardian when there are many better choices cough cough Warrior among others.

Harbinger.8637:

DPS guard is fine. I run it with 10/25/30/0/5 and Scholar runes. Great part about dps Guard is you still have decent survivability.

I do wish they would buff the Zeal line, but other then that I’m quite pleased with it.

Zeal would be good if spirit weapons were good.

First of all I would like to point out that we have one build for dps. That is stupid considering anet’s always wants us to have options. Secondly, I never said dps guard wasn’t strong at all, we just need improvements because our consistency at a high level is not where it needs to be. Thirdly, FOR all of you saying im using the wrong weapons or that I
don’t know about dps guardian well enough, PLS don’t make me laugh. None of you even play at a high level in tPvP or are anywhere close to the same level as me when it comes to that. DO not bring that into this discussion because that was not the discussion to begin with.

Sword and gs are by far our most damage and to say im using the wrong weapons shows you yourself dont even know about dps guardian lol. I have been playing dps guardian at a high tPvP level longer than anyone besides kaypud and we have already had this conversation. What needs to happen is one of us needs to be brought onto sotg so we can speak directly with a dev. 90% of the traits/skills we have are absolutely useless for dps in tPvP. I would love to have the option of running more builds or a consistency when landing my burst without relying on a meditation to do so.

lilz shorty.1879:

First of all I would like to point out that we have one build for dps. That is stupid considering anet’s always wants us to have options. Secondly, I never said dps guard wasn’t strong at all, we just need improvements because our consistency at a high level is not where it needs to be. Thirdly, FOR all of you saying im using the wrong weapons or that I
don’t know about dps guardian well enough, PLS don’t make me laugh. None of you even play at a high level in tPvP or are anywhere close to the same level as me when it comes to that. DO not bring that into this discussion because that was not the discussion to begin with.

Sword and gs are by far our most damage and to say im using the wrong weapons shows you yourself dont even know about dps guardian lol. I have been playing dps guardian at a high tPvP level longer than anyone besides kaypud and we have already had this conversation. What needs to happen is one of us needs to be brought onto sotg so we can speak directly with a dev. 90% of the traits/skills we have are absolutely useless for dps in tPvP. I would love to have the option of running more builds or a consistency when landing my burst without relying on a meditation to do so.

Does it upset you that people who you consider beneath you told you to go out and explore the class more?

lilz shorty.1879:

First of all I would like to point out that we have one build for dps. That is stupid considering anet’s always wants us to have options. Secondly, I never said dps guard wasn’t strong at all, we just need improvements because our consistency at a high level is not where it needs to be. Thirdly, FOR all of you saying im using the wrong weapons or that I
don’t know about dps guardian well enough, PLS don’t make me laugh. None of you even play at a high level in tPvP or are anywhere close to the same level as me when it comes to that. DO not bring that into this discussion because that was not the discussion to begin with.

Sword and gs are by far our most damage and to say im using the wrong weapons shows you yourself dont even know about dps guardian lol. I have been playing dps guardian at a high tPvP level longer than anyone besides kaypud and we have already had this conversation. What needs to happen is one of us needs to be brought onto sotg so we can speak directly with a dev. 90% of the traits/skills we have are absolutely useless for dps in tPvP. I would love to have the option of running more builds or a consistency when landing my burst without relying on a meditation to do so.

just swap the sword for the scepter in order to have a good ranged option.

I mean, c’mon.

You can say “i’m better than you” all the time you want ( i don’t want to start the EU vs NA crap again) but currently you now have the tools to deal ridicolous damage.

You have fury, so no more points in radiance. you can build for power ( zeal = more base power and more damage scaling traits like scpeter + 10% and GS + 5 %), you can build for perma vigor and larger symbols ( as great as the whole point) and scepter will give you range, good AoE and immo to land your burst.

If you really are a top player stop complaining because right now you have all the tools to play a DPS guard at high level.

Divinity.8041:

It amazes me how many people don’t understand how good guardians are, and have been since release. This was a great buff, and anything more will seriously make guardians god like. Let’s give them stealth too, tons of immobs and bleeds.

Stop complaining about a STAPLE of any real tpvp team since this game launched.

See this is what I am talking about. Good in one specific role that a guardian may or may not want to play and that means the class is great. Those teams all bring a guardian in the same role. I don’t want to play a bunker don’t you understand that? What is hard to understand about wanting to be able to do more then Bunker and not be mediocre at best? Guard = ones of the most pigeonholed classes in the game in spvp at least if you want to play them and not be super inferior to other roles/builds. We were sold a bill of goods with this stupid game. No in a game where we were told classes and roles would be flexible everything is not fine with Guardians.

Considering the fact that almost everyone in here disagrees with you. Maybe you should go explore the class more.

Also your ego is quite large, if you were so good you wouldn’t be having problems.

First of all you absolutely wrong and LOL if you think scepter is anywhat viable at the top level as a dps guardian. I am not talkin about a support class. Im talking pure dps. Trust me I play at a high level and have been the only one for the past 7 months doing so besides one or 2. But that is besides the point. The builds I have been running, have worked consistently all the time. If you think you dont need any kind of points in radiance for spvp you are dead wrong. The main reason you should even go into radiance is for the blinds. Fury alone did not do much. I have always had the tools to be somewhat viable, and this has helped. But the fact is I have to allocate my traits to the same exact traits for most dps builds. The amount of damage we can do is not the issue but more our consistency of landing it without having to rely on judges. I stated that earlier. The fact that I have 3 up on my sword to burst a target down but cannot use it to burst someone whos at 20% is mind boggling. I have to wait for a cd I just used to help burst someone down. If I had some sort of chill or immob/cripple, this would not be an issue. All im really asking for is some sort of cc.

And you are the example of why dps guardians haven’t gotten love they need. People like you consistenly are blinded by something and think we are absolutley fine and that you know everything there is to know. Don’t even play it at a high level to know what is viable, and have the nerve to say just use “scepter and you will be fine.” That is a good one lol. I am not trying to come off arrogant or anything. I just want anet to stop being so relaxed when it comes to guardians being dps. If no top tier dps guardian complains and everyone else speaks for them like they did on the last state of the game(when there was no guardian present), stating guardians are fine, ofc Anet is going to overlook it. Its about time one of us actually says something because I am tired of it.

Mrbig.8019:

lilz shorty.1879:

First of all I would like to point out that we have one build for dps. That is stupid considering anet’s always wants us to have options. Secondly, I never said dps guard wasn’t strong at all, we just need improvements because our consistency at a high level is not where it needs to be. Thirdly, FOR all of you saying im using the wrong weapons or that I
don’t know about dps guardian well enough, PLS don’t make me laugh. None of you even play at a high level in tPvP or are anywhere close to the same level as me when it comes to that. DO not bring that into this discussion because that was not the discussion to begin with.

Sword and gs are by far our most damage and to say im using the wrong weapons shows you yourself dont even know about dps guardian lol. I have been playing dps guardian at a high tPvP level longer than anyone besides kaypud and we have already had this conversation. What needs to happen is one of us needs to be brought onto sotg so we can speak directly with a dev. 90% of the traits/skills we have are absolutely useless for dps in tPvP. I would love to have the option of running more builds or a consistency when landing my burst without relying on a meditation to do so.

just swap the sword for the scepter in order to have a good ranged option.

I mean, c’mon.

You can say “i’m better than you” all the time you want ( i don’t want to start the EU vs NA crap again) but currently you now have the tools to deal ridicolous damage.

You have fury, so no more points in radiance. you can build for power ( zeal = more base power and more damage scaling traits like scpeter + 10% and GS + 5 %), you can build for perma vigor and larger symbols ( as great as the whole point) and scepter will give you range, good AoE and immo to land your burst.

If you really are a top player stop complaining because right now you have all the tools to play a DPS guard at high level.

You still haven’t answered why I would want to play a guardian for dps when I could play a warrior. If you want to maximise your character and run the most optimal build no one should be playing a DPS guardian. You should be playing a Bunker guard. I don’t know what is hard to understand about that. Sure I could play one and I would be inferior to every Warrior dps that was equal to me in skill level. DPS guardians are totally inferior to Warriors and other classes to boot as a DPS. Teams bring a guardian and 99% of the time its not to dps!

lilz shorty.1879:

First of all you absolutely wrong and LOL if you think scepter is anywhat viable at the top level as a dps guardian. I am not talkin about a support class. Im talking pure dps. Trust me I play at a high level and have been the only one for the past 7 months doing so besides one or 2. But that is besides the point. The builds I have been running, have worked consistently all the time. If you think you dont need any kind of points in radiance for spvp you are dead wrong. The main reason you should even go into radiance is for the blinds. Fury alone did not do much. I have always had the tools to be somewhat viable, and this has helped. But the fact is I have to allocate my traits to the same exact traits for most dps builds. The amount of damage we can do is not the issue but more our consistency of landing it without having to rely on judges. I stated that earlier. The fact that I have 3 up on my sword to burst a target down but cannot use it to burst someone whos at 20% is mind boggling. I have to wait for a cd I just used to help burst someone down. If I had some sort of chill or immob/cripple, this would not be an issue. All im really asking for is some sort of cc.

What you really meant to say is that you don’t know how to use scepter, not that scepter isn’t viable. Who cares about you playing top level? As if all players who can pvp want to participate in that. You are only using it to negate other people’s perspective and force your own. Which leads to the problem on how you already think you know and that others can’t show you anything, hence your constant mentioning how you are on top.

When you think you know, there is nothing to actually learn. You are your own problem, not the class.

I really feel guardians get the “paladin hate” that somehow derived from D&D, through any MMO ever made. Everyone thinks that they are so overpowered and can do anything without a real thought to a degree of prejudice.

That said, guardians have a very stable mechanic (bunkering) but it requires some specific conditions (building healing power typically) to make up for the low health pool. The other thing guardians do well is provide group stability, group retaliation, and group condition cleansing.

That is our niche.

What some of the guardian community feels is that we are stuck, and would like to branch out to more than just mid bunker.

There are DPS guardian builds, but they are not as solid as the bunker build, due to building away from survival traits and gear, then the guardian has less ability to survive and being more glassy without the same amount of escapes and avoidance that other low hp tier classes get.

“THE” survive and sustain mechanic of the guardian is self heal via AH if in a group, regeneration if you build to healing power, or MF if you solo.

AH/MF are both down the same tree, and MF is “decent” but somehow not enough in terms of long fights. AH is great, but only with allies around. Regen as we discussed will hinder your damage output due to building to healing power.

Guardians “can” do some amazing damage, but a lot of the guardian community feels we can not “stick” that damage very well, and in turn our dps oriented survival is situational to group fights or short lived combat.

So either guardians need a way to

- do more damage in less time to match the fight duration effectivness of meditations (read I do not mean 1 shot people, but slight increase in damage).

- soft CC targets in a way that keeps them in the effective range of combat better, to land the bigger hits (probably a reliable snare mechanic)

- increase defensive ability in an offensive build (expand reliable protection boons beyond just hammer and/or base healing of virtue of resolve to allow guardians to heal through more damage without having to go heal power)

None of those solutions are agreed upon and have potential to make the guardian class OP.

Guardians have the lowest HP because they are supposed to heal better than anyone else, yet as the game has evolved, everyone else has continued to see changes and improvements while guardians have stayed the same. So the status quo is now different, and the players who picked guardian for its class defining abilities now see it as lack luster and can find those same things in other classes.

My request is to see more diversity in build for guardians. I do feel we are pigeon holed. We are not broken or worthless, but maybe stagnant is a better word.

Guardians are probably the most balanced class out there….but then that makes everyone else OP ;P

Apparently ‘top level’ guardians are weaker.

Mathias.9657:

Apparently ‘top level’ guardians are weaker.

That can be looked at a few ways.

Top level guardians are against top level players, who know the weakness of guardians better than low level player, thus making it feel like at the top level you die more than you did at a low level.

or

Top level guardians have abilities that work well to a certain skill cap, but then they find it difficult to push higher, while other classes can continue to grow.

Kwll.1468:

Mrbig.8019:

lilz shorty.1879:

First of all I would like to point out that we have one build for dps. That is stupid considering anet’s always wants us to have options. Secondly, I never said dps guard wasn’t strong at all, we just need improvements because our consistency at a high level is not where it needs to be. Thirdly, FOR all of you saying im using the wrong weapons or that I
don’t know about dps guardian well enough, PLS don’t make me laugh. None of you even play at a high level in tPvP or are anywhere close to the same level as me when it comes to that. DO not bring that into this discussion because that was not the discussion to begin with.

Sword and gs are by far our most damage and to say im using the wrong weapons shows you yourself dont even know about dps guardian lol. I have been playing dps guardian at a high tPvP level longer than anyone besides kaypud and we have already had this conversation. What needs to happen is one of us needs to be brought onto sotg so we can speak directly with a dev. 90% of the traits/skills we have are absolutely useless for dps in tPvP. I would love to have the option of running more builds or a consistency when landing my burst without relying on a meditation to do so.

just swap the sword for the scepter in order to have a good ranged option.

I mean, c’mon.

You can say “i’m better than you” all the time you want ( i don’t want to start the EU vs NA crap again) but currently you now have the tools to deal ridicolous damage.

You have fury, so no more points in radiance. you can build for power ( zeal = more base power and more damage scaling traits like scpeter + 10% and GS + 5 %), you can build for perma vigor and larger symbols ( as great as the whole point) and scepter will give you range, good AoE and immo to land your burst.

If you really are a top player stop complaining because right now you have all the tools to play a DPS guard at high level.

You still haven’t answered why I would want to play a guardian for dps when I could play a warrior. If you want to maximise your character and run the most optimal build no one should be playing a DPS guardian. You should be playing a Bunker guard. I don’t know what is hard to understand about that. Sure I could play one and I would be inferior to every Warrior dps that was equal to me in skill level. DPS guardians are totally inferior to Warriors and other classes to boot as a DPS. Teams bring a guardian and 99% of the time its not to dps!

There is a lot of reasons as to why dps guard outshines a bunker in tPvP but this would take to long as to expain. And no you should not be playing bunker lol. If you dont tPvP a lot it would be hard to explain this.

As for everyone else. The top level matters because hotjoins/solo que/tPvP at low level doesn’t matter and considering balancing a class on false information is bad. Scepter is bad if you want to dps, and it’s not even worth mentioning. I do not have any problems atm lol considering a how extremely useful I can be when I arrive to a team fight late and come in and wipe them. I am not complaining but rather trying to open Anets eyes to the problems we have because everyone is too blind to see it. So ANET, I apologize for the stupid arguments everyone is bringing up, but that is not the case. I know you guys talk to high level players and ask their inputs all the time on what they should do for a class. I’d be happy to talk you in game of some sort.

CMF.5461:

Mathias.9657:

Apparently ‘top level’ guardians are weaker.

That can be looked at a few ways.

Top level guardians are against top level players, who know the weakness of guardians better than low level player, thus making it feel like at the top level you die more than you did at a low level.

or

Top level guardians have abilities that work well to a certain skill cap, but then they find it difficult to push higher, while other classes can continue to grow.

Well said my friend

I’d love to see more soft CCs or just CCs on Guard, but there’s a reason why Anet has been so reluctant to this idea. It would be straight up broken if they don’t implement it right.

Harbinger.8637:

I’d love to see more soft CCs or just CCs on Guard, but there’s a reason why Anet has been so reluctant to this idea. It would be straight up broken if they don’t implement it right.

I agree, I don’t think they know how to “fix” guardians without making them more broken.

Unless there is a complete revamp to how they work, anything they do has potential to go wrong, like those necro, ranger, warrior changes they made a few months back :p

Harbinger.8637:

I’d love to see more soft CCs or just CCs on Guard, but there’s a reason why Anet has been so reluctant to this idea. It would be straight up broken if they don’t implement it right.

I agree but something like adding chill to judges rather than burning would suffice or if you leap u cripple + blind. All im asking for is some sort of cc as a melee so we dont have to rely on judges all the time.

With the amount of immob/chill/cripple + swiftness other classes have, having some sort of cc is needed.

Have you tried running hammer?

jmatb.6307:

Have you tried running hammer?

Yes and it is not what is not good enuff as a pure dps class. The auto attack is to slow and u only have one reliable attack from it essentially which is your mighty blow. In a cluster team fight it is good for a burst every now and then and come cc but gs auto attack/symbol for aoe retal/pull + spin is much better to use with ur burst combo to wipe a team

30s icd for 5s chill (I forget duration but it is short). Not reliable, and hammer attacks are fairly slow in relation to that chill. Hammer is consistent slow high damage, not burst that the short chill would provide.

You could do a weapon swap to GS or something else to get out quick burst, but long gaps between chills and randomness is meh.

Also if you meant Zealot’s Embrace, it travels in a straight line and is highly ineffective at a distance as targets can just strafe out of the way. Maybe add tracking to it, or increase travel speed.

ring of warding is nice, but easy to get out of with stability or just before the guard even drops it if you are already running out of the area.

last cc is banish, and again this one is nice, but someone pointed out single target long distance knock back is troll ability, ae close range knock down is CC. Guardians have a lot of single target focus it seems, and maybe that is part of the problem.

CMF.5461:

30s icd for 5s chill (I forget duration but it is short). Not reliable, and hammer attacks are fairly slow in relation to that chill. Hammer is consistent slow high damage, not burst that the short chill would provide.

You could do a weapon swap to GS or something else to get out quick burst, but long gaps between chills and randomness is meh.

Also if you meant Zealot’s Embrace, it travels in a straight line and is highly ineffective at a distance as targets can just strafe out of the way. Maybe add tracking to it, or increase travel speed.

ring of warding is nice, but easy to get out of with stability or just before the guard even drops it if you are already running out of the area.

last cc is banish, and again this one is nice, but someone pointed out single target long distance knock back is troll ability, ae close range knock down is CC. Guardians have a lot of single target focus it seems, and maybe that is part of the problem.

Yep. It would be great if they increased the speed or something possible if they dont wanna give us immob. And yes you are absolutely right about hammer.

Ya I was thinking Hammer could be a good off-set weapon for small scale engagements.

Hammer is great in terms of letting guardians build for dps and still maintaining a degree of survival.

Only problem is that scenario works best in PvE because of the mostly stationary fights and predictable attacks.

WvW zergs it works decently enough in, because you are not being focused per say and can swing around with less punishment.

s/tpvp it starts to be harder to pull off the same level of survival because of the mobile fights, protection not being up due to moving a lot, and the interrupt in auto chain (that gives protection) due to utilizing the other abilities on hammer for CC (which are also slow and easy to avoid).

Hammer is so weird, it has so much CC on it, that never gets used in PvE, yet its strength of letting us build for damage and maintaining survival is ineffective in PvP.