Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think the description needs to be worked on. Already talked w/ the other balance guys about this, we’ll look at it again!

Since you’re here. Is there a reason Renewed Focus was changed from 3 seconds to 2?

Watching warriors closely …

So are you watching closely how a warrior can immobilize someone for 20s
Or how a warrior can bunker a point by just standing on it and have infinite regen

What is an acceptable counter for a build to not be considered OP? If a single class manages to create a single solitary build that counters stunlock warriors, are they considered to be fine? Is this regardless of their performance against any other number of builds and classes?

Is the game intended to work on a Rock-Paper-Scissors basis?

I genuinely wish to know so I may modify my expectations appropriately.

Hypothetical: Class A has conditions buffed. New conditions spec is considered unbeatable in 1v1 and quickly changes the meta. Destroys virtually every other class and build.

As a result of several buffs to condition cleansing, class B is discovered to hard counter class A. Said build is also of extreme power – easily crushing many other builds and flat out hard countering condition builds.

Is this balanced by virtue of the existence of one counter or not?

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think the description needs to be worked on. Already talked w/ the other balance guys about this, we’ll look at it again!

Thanks Jonathan. May want to have a look at Automated Response as well.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

^ “X amount of condi-time” minus 100% is 0

14 – 100% is 0

9 – 100% is 0

9999999 – 100% is 0

Oh no, 8 seconds of not being able to face spam conditions on the warrior? =[

So + condi duration is essentially a isolated function from – condi duration? That seems odd, regardless thank you for the response.

This also gets me confused. Why not make the description “Conditions do absolutely no damage while under Berserker Stance” or something like that since number crunching on +condi duration and -condi duration is basically pointless with this utility skill? :/

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to say that you guys are having a similar discussion to what we’re having internally.

Yes, the Warriors are pushing some of the condition builds out of the meta, but with our sigil of para fix, those same warriors will now be losing a little damage and a little control.

We need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles. Then we’ll be putting in trait improvement and skill improvements.

We felt the Warrior would eventually rise up to become the class it is now (it took a while for people to catch on), but once you guys figured it out, they did what we expected them to do.

Now we need to see where you guys (and the meta) go next.

Are you aware that you killed S/P thieves in order to limit the CC spam warrior train?

S/P was already underwhelming, now it’s just ridicolous.

Why would push thieves even more into gimmicky S/D builds ?

tichorum.2415:

Necromancer: Not a whole lot done aside from QoL things and siphoning. I still believe a previous patch fixed necros mostly; I don’t find them to be broken at all.

Siphon was a nurf to heals overall, it just let necro’s scale more damage on minions that can’t be mitigated by armor.

Still just stack condi’s more than others can cleanse, too defensive with life force vs 1, too squishy vs more than 1.

I feel the biggest problem with TPVP/SPVP is that there is only one good pvp build per profession. Granted I feel that eng, warrior, mesmer,probably have the most choices of pvp builds(at least 2 viable builds each), there needs to be more ways to play each class. I know this may be a lot to ask, but variety helps keep peoples interest, and right now, its just not there in pvp.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think the description needs to be worked on. Already talked w/ the other balance guys about this, we’ll look at it again!

Don’t know if this helps—but engineers often ask what Automated Response does in the engineer subforum. I’ve learned to tell them:

“No new conditions will be applied to you while you are under 25% health.”

That seems to be the easiest thing for people to understand. Perhaps this wording could help out in the tooltips for AR and Berserker stance.

At least you guys aren’t knee jerk nerfing/buffing everything like always.

Meh boring thief changes, incredibly underwhelming patch notes after 4 months.

To all the bads saying they killed S/P, I never used the para sigil and still play fine. It’s still completely viable, stop crying about it.

Mathias.9657:

At least you guys aren’t knee jerk nerfing/buffing everything like always.

Meh boring thief changes, incredibly underwhelming patch notes after 4 months.

To all the bads saying they killed S/P, I never used the para sigil and still play fine. It’s still completely viable, stop crying about it.

Im afraid you aren’t aware on what is being discussed.

ensoriki.5789:

Mathias.9657:

At least you guys aren’t knee jerk nerfing/buffing everything like always.

Meh boring thief changes, incredibly underwhelming patch notes after 4 months.

To all the bads saying they killed S/P, I never used the para sigil and still play fine. It’s still completely viable, stop crying about it.

Im afraid you aren’t aware on what is being discussed.

Could you enlighten me then? I have no clue if it’s not because of the sigil or rune stun % I didn’t see any nerfs to s/p. I can’t log in right now to check, only thing I can think of is the 1/2s stun on pistol whip isn’t 1s long and is not being rounded to a full second.

Mathias.9657:

ensoriki.5789:

Mathias.9657:

At least you guys aren’t knee jerk nerfing/buffing everything like always.

Meh boring thief changes, incredibly underwhelming patch notes after 4 months.

To all the bads saying they killed S/P, I never used the para sigil and still play fine. It’s still completely viable, stop crying about it.

Im afraid you aren’t aware on what is being discussed.

Could you enlighten me then? I have no clue if it’s not because of the sigil or rune stun % I didn’t see any nerfs to s/p.

I don’t know why you feel compelled to throw “bads” at players mentioning reality. PW has always been a one second stun. It is now half of that, there is no falseness in this. You have a set where the opponents ability to mitigate it’s damage has been increased. The cc reduction applies to PW, Tactical strike and headshot, but if you look head shot and tactical strike aren’t being discussed because their duration isn’t as significant to the kit.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to say that you guys are having a similar discussion to what we’re having internally.

Yes, the Warriors are pushing some of the condition builds out of the meta, but with our sigil of para fix, those same warriors will now be losing a little damage and a little control.

We need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles. Then we’ll be putting in trait improvement and skill improvements.

We felt the Warrior would eventually rise up to become the class it is now (it took a while for people to catch on), but once you guys figured it out, they did what we expected them to do.

Now we need to see where you guys (and the meta) go next.

Hey Mr. Sharp,

I was testing consecrations and I like the changes. I’m really feeling the reduced condition duration on purging flames. Hallowed Ground feels a bit on the weak side though. I have a question and a suggestion.

Question, does purging flames reduce condition duration by 20% or 33%? Skill tooltip says 20% but when you use purging flames the boon icon says 33%, which one is it?

Suggestion, could you guys look into giving consecrations a stun breaker? Hallowed Ground seems like a likely candidate, but I dunno how the devs feel about it.

Good patch so far, I’m enjoying it. One thing I learned with gw2 patches is the small changes usually turn out to be significant ones.

I never noticed PW was a full 1s in pvp. Yeah that does suck, I would expect they just hotfix it to 1full second hopefully. My bad

ensoriki.5789:

Mathias.9657:

ensoriki.5789:

Mathias.9657:

At least you guys aren’t knee jerk nerfing/buffing everything like always.

Meh boring thief changes, incredibly underwhelming patch notes after 4 months.

To all the bads saying they killed S/P, I never used the para sigil and still play fine. It’s still completely viable, stop crying about it.

Im afraid you aren’t aware on what is being discussed.

Could you enlighten me then? I have no clue if it’s not because of the sigil or rune stun % I didn’t see any nerfs to s/p.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Since beta (possibly alpha but I did not play the alpha) stuns have rounded up to the nearest second. a 0.25 daze = 1 second daze, 0.75 stun = 1 second stun, 1.5s daze = 2s daze. This was nice because you could prevent (if the devs wanted) any scaling with Sigil of paralyzation. For example, Tactical strike was a 2 second daze (as you know), that could be mixed with Sigil of paralyzation or rune of the mesmer to become a 3s daze because again all stuns and dazes round up to the nearest second. In november Anet changed Tactical strike in spvp to 1.5s, since all dazes rounded up it was still a 2 second daze but 1.5 × 1.15 = 1.725 so Tactical strike could no longer round up to 3 seconds in spvp. Pistol whip is a 0.5 second stun, so if you recall what I said before it rounds up to the nearest second, this meant Pistol whip has always been a one second stun. However because of that 0.5 it could never round up to 2 seconds, which was good because a 2s PW is ridiculous.
Now skills do not round to the nearest second, so Pistol whip which has been a 1 second stun since beta is now a 0.5 second stun. Which given you play S/P you know that stun helps to ensure a few hits go in, as well as setting the S/P kit as a whole as one with strong CC. With the stun it’s had since beta halved, S/P can not hold on to targets as well, they break out earlier and can avoid more damage as a result, this makes S/P kill an individual player slower. This also means in a team, it’s harder to take advantage of the window a S/P thief can create, because it’s only half as long.

This doesn’t have anything to do with sigil of paralyzation itself, because if we look sigil of paralyzation never provided S/P any benefit. 0.5s rounded up to 1 second, if you took sigil of paralyzation it was 0.5s x 1.15 = 0.575 which rounds up to…. 1 second. Which meant no matter what Pistol whip was always one second stun and never any longer (so you wouldn’t take SoP for PW because the two did not work together). Now that the change has gone,
PW has half its stun duration to remedy a problem with a sigil (and rune set) that it could not use to begin with.
You can easily check this in game with your stun coming off half as fast.

I don’t know why you feel compelled to throw “bads” it’s straight reality. Take S/P as you’ve known it, and weaken it, that is the reality. S/P is weaker than it was yesterday. Tactical strike is technically 0.5s shorter, PW is 0.5 shorter which is half of it’s duration and headshot is 0.75s shorter. So except for Infiltrator strike all the CC of S/P has decreased. This is fine for headshot given it’s role but you will be feeling the reduced effects of PW as a reduced time before they can escape means more damage that they can mitigate, this is lowering the damage you deal.

I got you man, just figured it was the typical patch QQ you see everywhere, that is a big problem. I guess it’s back to S/D. I’ll test a few S/P games when i get home.

Hello, Mr. Sharp.
Let’s discuss the Ranger then.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

It’s not Berserker’s stance man. Its the Healing Signet + Banners Perma-Regen + Adrenal Health as a MINOR trait.

He’s got too much regen. Period. Berserker’s stance is a 8-second condi removal. It’s not what gives the Warrior too much sustain. Not by a long shot.

I am still having huge amounts of trouble with the wars ecaping, stun locking. Maybe it’s just me not timing dodge right but even so it’s extremely irritating losing to a war doing nothing but throwing me up in the air.

Rym.1469:

Hello, Mr. Sharp.
Let’s discuss the elementalist then.

fixed that for you.

They have unusually (up to 2x) CD on skill other better protected, more damage and hp classes have for less, while doing less than 1/3 the damage.

How does the current elementalist make any logical sense for the balancing team?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to say that you guys are having a similar discussion to what we’re having internally.

Yes, the Warriors are pushing some of the condition builds out of the meta, but with our sigil of para fix, those same warriors will now be losing a little damage and a little control.

We need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles. Then we’ll be putting in trait improvement and skill improvements.

We felt the Warrior would eventually rise up to become the class it is now (it took a while for people to catch on), but once you guys figured it out, they did what we expected them to do.

Now we need to see where you guys (and the meta) go next.

Rise up and become the best class in anything but very organzied team play and still be very strong there. I don’t know what there is to monitor I know you have internal data that shows you how many people are playing each class in spvp. Surely the ridiculous spike in Warriors being played tells you something no? I’ve about had it with this kind of nonsense its like you don’t even play. Play a couple hundred matches in your awful solo queu like I and many others have and get back to me. You over-buffed a class like you always do to try to fix it. So now because you are afraid to nerf things we are stuck with this sort of stuff for months. PS Spirit Rangers still need some nerfs too I guess that rez signet is just fine and dandy!

EoNxBoNx.9213:

tichorum.2415:

I honestly think the patch did quite a bit and is helping the balance.

Thief: S/D evades are still a bit unreasonable, but their boon strip has been knocked down to 1 for LS which definitely helps. Perhaps we’ll see a pistol main hand build in the meta now for the lockdown (I believe there already was one for condi-damage but I’ve never seen in it a team queue before).

Acro S/P will probably see more play now since they nerfed the boon strip on LS. It will have the same amount of dodges, the same amount of pressure, and the same amount of disengage as a S/D thief. Mostly because of sword main hand, and 30 in to acro.

EDIT: Or, people will just drop S/D completely and just play D/P, and maybe some venom share with S/P.

I’d just like to point out that S/D doesn’t gain its evades from 30 in Acro, you only need 15 in Acro for Feiline Grace which returns 33% of your endurance when you dodge. Flanking Strike is the evade portion of the FS/LS combo and that’s the part that everyone complains is perma-evasion even though it’s not and nobody even runs S/D + S/D with 30 Acro and Quick Pockets + Energy sigils any more.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

tichorum.2415:

I honestly think the patch did quite a bit and is helping the balance.

Thief: S/D evades are still a bit unreasonable, but their boon strip has been knocked down to 1 for LS which definitely helps. Perhaps we’ll see a pistol main hand build in the meta now for the lockdown (I believe there already was one for condi-damage but I’ve never seen in it a team queue before).

Acro S/P will probably see more play now since they nerfed the boon strip on LS. It will have the same amount of dodges, the same amount of pressure, and the same amount of disengage as a S/D thief. Mostly because of sword main hand, and 30 in to acro.

EDIT: Or, people will just drop S/D completely and just play D/P, and maybe some venom share with S/P.

Sad part is that S/P is probably the most nerfed build in the whole game.

Pistol whip stun expires even before connecting your sword hits, thanks to stun/daze fix.

Great work on balance.

Ok so I just got home and tested PW a bit and it does indeed expire before your sword even makes contact with the target, making the stun nothing more than an interrupt. We definitely need the 1s back to make this damage more reliable, hopefully they hotfix this otherwise no one is going to be using S/P at all.

The headshot daze comes with a (I believe) 4s cooldown on the enemy anyway when interrupting a skill so that isn’t such a big deal imo but also an unnecessary change on duration. I am really hoping ANet did this unintentionally.

Just goes to show they don’t have enough internal testing going on, we should have had a PTR since day 1 so we can report bugs instead of having to suffer through them. It baffles me that a so called triple A MMO doesn’t have these basic features.

I agree partially with the OP, its a decent patch but there are points that need more attention:

REWARD SYSTEM: there are still no rewards in team queue or solo queue accept for a leaderboard: make unique skins for the top 10 teams. or solo players.

ACHIEVEMENTS: to my dissapointment every 2 weeks a new living story in PVE with different achievements, in PVP there are none except long term achievements that are made by just farming glory. You can go the same way as living story, make certain goals in 2 weeks that only PvP players can get and the top 5 players, top teams who are first get an achievement for it or even some gold, unique skin….you can even make them unique for solo, teamqueue or hotjoin.

TITLES: glory farm titles mean nothing anymore as skyhammer has been abused to an extend where anyone can be bear, shark or even higher. TITLES for top teams or solo players would be awesome,.

INCENTIVE TO PLAY: some points above are already a reason to play and to work to a certain GOAL, to get better, but new game modes like ARENA or others you come up with would give players a reason to play more.

TO close this: to the devs, this patch is decent but I do not consider this as a major patch but if you can bring these patches out in a smaller amount of time then 3-4 months so more like in a month timeframe I would defnitely like it a lot more.

Gz

Darkdanjal

Hey John, don’t you think healing sig signet is over the top? I don’t think it has been mentioned, but besides stunlock and healing signet I think wars would be fine (for the most part). I know your looking at stunlock, but that healing signet is insane. I had a similar taste of power last year that was fixed in the November balance patch. super elixir bugged and pulse heal actually healed for the initial heal amount. It’s insane healing at 400 was way too much I could easily 1-3/4 people mainly through raw healing and grenades, not to mention I could double stack them.

The only thing i dont like from those old ggs , is the Conjure Earth Shield main attack , as test subject .
Its pretty cool that we had a thread in the past , about nerfing the main attacks or changing it to something like Rangers Sword to limit the mobilities and spam of all classes .
But instead i would prefer to do less damage but benefit more from your friends combo fields . For example enginner have 20% to trigger combos from Fire + Smoke + Light + Water fields , but have 50% from the rest

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to say that you guys are having a similar discussion to what we’re having internally.

Yes, the Warriors are pushing some of the condition builds out of the meta, but with our sigil of para fix, those same warriors will now be losing a little damage and a little control.

We need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles. Then we’ll be putting in trait improvement and skill improvements.

We felt the Warrior would eventually rise up to become the class it is now (it took a while for people to catch on), but once you guys figured it out, they did what we expected them to do.

Now we need to see where you guys (and the meta) go next.

So it wasn’t complete incompetence that lead you to overpowering Warriors, but actually doing it on purpose..

Yea….That doesn’t make it any better

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

Ok, that means that you didn´t saw this bersi wars, only standing on a point, only going down if 3-5 people constantly pull out dmg on them. Sorry, but you must be somehow blind, if you really didn`t notice how op the heal sig on war is. Did you even play the game on yourself? Do you have only unskilled devs or why do you still think the war is ok?

Healing signet comparison

Necro heal minion – 900 hp/ 3s = 300 hp/s
and it can/does get destroyed, or even miss its attack giving 0 heal.

Warrior signet – 400 hp/s
Permanent, no stress its uninteruptable

Signet was 200 hp/s before, why not balance it to 300 ?

When playing Minion-necro, as long as the heal minion is alive, I have very good sustain, with less base armor….It took 1 month to “hotfix” Necro burning , Its 3 months now , why not do the same? Bad for the player, good for the game remember?

nicknamenick.2437:

again about the healing signet? […] I really dont get why people still think warriors are beasts and can hold a point against 2-3 people..

Get better in pvp, reach top 1000 at least. Then look those Warriors there, they can easily do that. You simply can´t because of missing skill.

nicknamenick.2437:

again about the healing signet? people talkig about infinite regen on warriors?
Warriors aint got infinite regen, healing signet is very easy to counter > poison..

1) Not all the classes have poison;
2) Warriors can easily cleanse posion.

So no, is not “very easy to counter”, and if you get countered it just means you are not so good with the warrior.

nicknamenick.2437:

Flumek.9043:

Healing signet comparison

Necro heal minion – 900 hp/ 3s = 300 hp/s
and it can/does get destroyed, or even miss its attack giving 0 heal.

Warrior signet – 400 hp/s
Permanent, no stress its uninteruptable

Signet was 200 hp/s before, why not balance it to 300 ?

When playing Minion-necro, as long as the heal minion is alive, I have very good sustain, with less base armor….It took 1 month to “hotfix” Necro burning , Its 3 months now , why not do the same? Bad for the player, good for the game remember?

You cant just compare 2 skills and say the healing signet is op compared to other healing skills on other classes.. because other classes have something else like protection, regen (no warriors aint got a sustain regen) or a second health bar, stealth, perma boons etc..

Also the healing signet doesnt do damage, the minion does. but yes in total the healing signet is better, but you got a second health bar :-)

Ow AND necro’s got healing on weapon skills.. warriors dont.

Yes, I can.

When 2 values have such a big difference, you can make rough estimates. And maybe 300 IS too low for warrior. Then make it 350 next month. Still too much? Here, 325 hp/s.

I know this is a “soft whack-a-mole” approach , but its very effective , solves the problem , and does it FAST. Like 75% of problem gone by 2nd step. Or you can try to get a perfect “hole in one , every 4 months” like now.

Btw. I DO play warr. And currently you dont need protection, so dont you think something is fishy? Guard and ele have it cz of lower HP , but lets not get off-topic and stop here.

IMO , the devs did a great job for improving clarity in traits , tooltips, floaters. Took a lot of technical work and time, and we appreciate it.
But the fine art of balance, which isnt crystal clear to solve is still ahead.

When Warrior in PVT or Berserker Gear has better healing per second than a Ranger in Full Apothecary Gear….You’ve clearly overtuned Warrior Healing.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

is berserker stance working as it should?

Grants full immunity to conditions regardless of condition duration modifiers , is this normal ? so whats the point having +80 percent duration or 0 percent duration? is it bugged or is it not ?

Prince Vingador.8067:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

is berserker stance working as it should?

Grants full immunity to conditions regardless of condition duration modifiers , is this normal ? so whats the point having +80 percent duration or 0 percent duration? is it bugged or is it not ?

no its not bugged. try it to understand that way
normalduration on your side as example 30 secs + xx % longer duration = 45secs
now the condition is applied and on the warriorside 100% of the duration are 45 secs. so reducing the duration by 100% is reducing it complet. its not one formula to calculate. its 2 one for outgoing and one for incoming.

hooma.9642:

Prince Vingador.8067:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

is berserker stance working as it should?

Grants full immunity to conditions regardless of condition duration modifiers , is this normal ? so whats the point having +80 percent duration or 0 percent duration? is it bugged or is it not ?

no its not bugged. try it to understand that way
normalduration on your side as example 30 secs + xx % longer duration = 45secs
now the condition is applied and on the warriorside 100% of the duration are 45 secs. so reducing the duration by 100% is reducing it complet. its not one formula to calculate. its 2 one for outgoing and one for incoming.

If you would look at traits such as Warrior’s Dogged March (-33%) and Ele’s Geomancer’s Freedom (-33%), that is NOT how it works.

All condition modifiers reduce the BASE duration only.

e.g.
(base duration – duration reduction) + (base duration*% duration increase) = condition duration

Dogged March Trait vs someone with 50% condition duration.
(30 secs – 33%) + (30 secs * 50%) = 35.1 secs

This is how Berz Stance should work if the wiki is correct.
(30 secs – 100%) + (30 secs *50%) = 15 secs

They should just change the description to “Warriors LOL at condition for 8 secs” so people do not get confused.

Sifu.6527:

hooma.9642:

Prince Vingador.8067:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

is berserker stance working as it should?

Grants full immunity to conditions regardless of condition duration modifiers , is this normal ? so whats the point having +80 percent duration or 0 percent duration? is it bugged or is it not ?

no its not bugged. try it to understand that way
normalduration on your side as example 30 secs + xx % longer duration = 45secs
now the condition is applied and on the warriorside 100% of the duration are 45 secs. so reducing the duration by 100% is reducing it complet. its not one formula to calculate. its 2 one for outgoing and one for incoming.

If you would look at traits such as Warrior’s Dogged March (-33%) and Ele’s Geomancer’s Freedom (-33%), that is NOT how it works.

All condition modifiers reduce the BASE duration only.

e.g.
(base duration – duration reduction) + (base duration*% duration increase) = condition duration

Dogged March Trait vs someone with 50% condition duration.
(30 secs – 33%) + (30 secs * 50%) = 35.1 secs

This is how Berz Stance should work if the wiki is correct.
(30 secs – 100%) + (30 secs *50%) = 15 secs

They should just change the description to “Warriors LOL at condition for 8 secs” so people do not get confused.

maybe wiki is wrong?

hooma.9642:

Sifu.6527:

hooma.9642:

Prince Vingador.8067:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

is berserker stance working as it should?

Grants full immunity to conditions regardless of condition duration modifiers , is this normal ? so whats the point having +80 percent duration or 0 percent duration? is it bugged or is it not ?

no its not bugged. try it to understand that way
normalduration on your side as example 30 secs + xx % longer duration = 45secs
now the condition is applied and on the warriorside 100% of the duration are 45 secs. so reducing the duration by 100% is reducing it complet. its not one formula to calculate. its 2 one for outgoing and one for incoming.

If you would look at traits such as Warrior’s Dogged March (-33%) and Ele’s Geomancer’s Freedom (-33%), that is NOT how it works.

All condition modifiers reduce the BASE duration only.

e.g.
(base duration – duration reduction) + (base duration*% duration increase) = condition duration

Dogged March Trait vs someone with 50% condition duration.
(30 secs – 33%) + (30 secs * 50%) = 35.1 secs

This is how Berz Stance should work if the wiki is correct.
(30 secs – 100%) + (30 secs *50%) = 15 secs

They should just change the description to “Warriors LOL at condition for 8 secs” so people do not get confused.

maybe wiki is wrong?

Most likely. Like I said, they should just change the description to indicate it grants immunity to condition for 8 secs and call it a day.

Good Pvp patch? In which world are you living? 3 Months and all they do is making it even worse. You don’t know your game at all – I mean, what do you think about GW2’ PVP anet? You really think its good? Just take a look at perma immo? You are not thinking, are you Anet?

Suggestion to ppl who are still trying to help Anet to improve things in PVP: Stop it, it’s a waste of time and they give a kitten about the comm’ opinion.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think the description needs to be worked on. Already talked w/ the other balance guys about this, we’ll look at it again!

^
Sorry to come out offtopic everyone, but Jonathan, can you cleanse you PM inbox? It’s full right now! Thanks!

It was a good PvP patch. kkthxbai.

JonSnow.5610:

Watching warriors closely …

So are you watching closely how a warrior can immobilize someone for 20s
Or how a warrior can bunker a point by just standing on it and have infinite regen

Technically warriors have always had ridiculous immobilize uptime. Prior to the Leg Specialist nerf, they could trivially get 100% with almost zero changes to their build.

Why is it suddenly an issue now? Oh right, because it’s the “thing” to complain about.

The patch had defintely improvements.
However, the huge lack of risk-reward and a non-existent skill-floor making the game for every average pvp-player a nightmare. The time spent into PvP is not necessary anymore, you can roll the meta and you’ll win.

So I guess Team-PvP will be dead till Janaury, when the reward-system will be released. Sad to see such potential being wasted due to a development-strategy for casuals, while desperately trying to make this game an E-Sport.
Are you even aware of the fact that an E-Sport has to be competitive, therefore needs a high enough skill-ceiling? Because what you do now is trying to be an E-Sport while trying to get as much causals as you can get. This strategy leads to a mess, or what we call ingame: “The Meta”

first they made necro a bunker counter but so stong he counters everthing

but they dont nerf it

they bring next counter for the necro but make it so stong that it counters everything, the warrior

whats next? another counter for the warrior which is than so op that it counters everything others too?

we dont need counters to counter op crap WE NEED YOU NERFING IT AND FINALY START BALANCING

powercreep will not help this game

Romek.4201:

first they made necro a bunker counter but so stong he counters everthing

but they dont nerf it

they bring next counter for the necro but make it so stong that it counters everything, the warrior

whats next? another counter for the warrior which is than so op that it counters everything others too?

It’s called a mesmer.

nicknamenick.2437:

again about the healing signet? people talkig about infinite regen on warriors?
Warriors aint got infinite regen, healing signet is very easy to counter > poison..

I really dont get why people still think warriors are beasts and can hold a point against 2-3 people..
I play warrior, and see allot of warriors in pvp, but we still die easily against other well played classes.

If they do nerf healing signet and healing surge they better give protection because if we go this way we are back on the bottem in pvp.

right where the mindless warrior should be.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The patch had defintely improvements.
However, the huge lack of risk-reward and a non-existent skill-floor making the game for every average pvp-player a nightmare. The time spent into PvP is not necessary anymore, you can roll the meta and you’ll win.

So I guess Team-PvP will be dead till Janaury, when the reward-system will be released. Sad to see such potential being wasted due to a development-strategy for casuals, while desperately trying to make this game an E-Sport.
Are you even aware of the fact that an E-Sport has to be competitive, therefore needs a high enough skill-ceiling? Because what you do now is trying to be an E-Sport while trying to get as much causals as you can get. This strategy leads to a mess, or what we call ingame: “The Meta”

They need to just forget the whole esports thing. This pvp is not an esport. End story.

fugazi.5139:

They need to just forget the whole esports thing. This pvp is not an esport. End story.

It’s not even good PVP, let alone esport-worthy. The fundamentals are all wrong and joe pvp mainstream will never accept downed state as it is.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The patch had defintely improvements.
However, the huge lack of risk-reward and a non-existent skill-floor making the game for every average pvp-player a nightmare. The time spent into PvP is not necessary anymore, you can roll the meta and you’ll win.

So I guess Team-PvP will be dead till Janaury, when the reward-system will be released. Sad to see such potential being wasted due to a development-strategy for casuals, while desperately trying to make this game an E-Sport.
Are you even aware of the fact that an E-Sport has to be competitive, therefore needs a high enough skill-ceiling? Because what you do now is trying to be an E-Sport while trying to get as much causals as you can get. This strategy leads to a mess, or what we call ingame: “The Meta”

I’d argue that the most important thing if you want a game to become an esport is accessibility. Take a look at all of the really popular games out there that’re being played competitively, in huge tournaments: Call of Duty, Halo, Dota 2, League of Legends, and probably plenty of others I’m forgetting about.

What do all of those games have in common? It’s easy for Joe Sixpack to come home to after work and pick up and play, and have fun. It doesn’t matter if Joe Sixpack is good, bad, or utterly incompetent – he’s having fun, and if he’s having fun, he’ll continue to play the game.

Think about how many people attended or tuned in to watch The International 2013, or whatever the big League of Legends tournament was (The Worlds?) Think about how many people were talking about it on Facebook or Twitter or Twitch or wherever else.

Now think about, honestly, how many of those people are even any good at the game, or even really care about “skill.” No, the vast majority of those folks are watching the game because they enjoy playing it, whether it takes a lot of “skill” to play or not.

But I feel that’s where GW2 is failing miserably. See, I’m new to GW2, and most of the time, I enjoy it. But I’ve been trying to get into sPvP, because it’s the only gameplay I haven’t done much of, and every time I hop into a match… I remember exactly why I haven’t done much of it: it sucks! I’m sorry, I know that’s not constructive, but it’s just… awful, and absolutely absent of fun.

And, having gotten a few friends into GW2 (only one still plays actively, though) over the past several months, I can say that I’m not alone in feeling that way about GW2’s sPvP.

Unless ArenaNet are able to make sPvP something that’s fun for newbies to come home to and fiddle around with, it will never succeed as an esport.

fugazi.5139:

They need to just forget the whole esports thing. This pvp is not an esport. End story.

Anet hasn’t really devoted any significant resources to “esports” at all—added a basic spectator mode, put down some petty cash for a trial run MLG tourney to test the water. They introduced reduced particle effects, but that was more of a QoL improvement than esport prep. The devs don’t really talk about it much.

The forums, on the other hand, use the word “esports” constantly. Usually in sentences like “Anet is obsessed with esports.” From where I’m standing, I’d say it’s not Anet that’s obsessed with esports.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The patch had defintely improvements.
However, the huge lack of risk-reward and a non-existent skill-floor making the game for every average pvp-player a nightmare. The time spent into PvP is not necessary anymore, you can roll the meta and you’ll win.

So I guess Team-PvP will be dead till Janaury, when the reward-system will be released. Sad to see such potential being wasted due to a development-strategy for casuals, while desperately trying to make this game an E-Sport.
Are you even aware of the fact that an E-Sport has to be competitive, therefore needs a high enough skill-ceiling? Because what you do now is trying to be an E-Sport while trying to get as much causals as you can get. This strategy leads to a mess, or what we call ingame: “The Meta”

I’d argue that the most important thing if you want a game to become an esport is accessibility. Take a look at all of the really popular games out there that’re being played competitively, in huge tournaments: Call of Duty, Halo, Dota 2, League of Legends, and probably plenty of others I’m forgetting about.

What do all of those games have in common? It’s easy for Joe Sixpack to come home to after work and pick up and play, and have fun. It doesn’t matter if Joe Sixpack is good, bad, or utterly incompetent – he’s having fun, and if he’s having fun, he’ll continue to play the game.

Think about how many people attended or tuned in to watch The International 2013, or whatever the big League of Legends tournament was (The Worlds?) Think about how many people were talking about it on Facebook or Twitter or Twitch or wherever else.

Now think about, honestly, how many of those people are even any good at the game, or even really care about “skill.” No, the vast majority of those folks are watching the game because they enjoy playing it, whether it takes a lot of “skill” to play or not.

But I feel that’s where GW2 is failing miserably. See, I’m new to GW2, and most of the time, I enjoy it. But I’ve been trying to get into sPvP, because it’s the only gameplay I haven’t done much of, and every time I hop into a match… I remember exactly why I haven’t done much of it: it sucks! I’m sorry, I know that’s not constructive, but it’s just… awful, and absolutely absent of fun.

And, having gotten a few friends into GW2 (only one still plays actively, though) over the past several months, I can say that I’m not alone in feeling that way about GW2’s sPvP.

Unless ArenaNet are able to make sPvP something that’s fun for newbies to come home to and fiddle around with, it will never succeed as an esport.

What A-Net is doing for a year now is to make PvP more accessible for casuals. We see this in the passive and repitive gameplay. Healing Signet is the best example for it. They really try to make this game as easy as possible.

On the same time that’s the most crucial part, why many players, especially on TPvP even played the game. Backstab, Shatter-Mes created a good risk-reward balance, which is nowadays not there anymore.

This means, if you’ve played for e.g. Ranger for 5 months or for 1 day doesn’t matter. I can create a Ranger and be competitive/ effective in about 2 days at maximum. So making the game accessible for everyone in this special form is not healthy. LoL is also casual friendly, but the skill-ceiling is very high, even though the mechanics are not that complex. “Accessible” is a very big word and has impact on many levels.

However, I understand you and agree with most of it. Still it’s a very complex topic and can’t be generalized.