Guild Wars 2

I was facing a guardian with a glass cannon thief as a ranger who has a super bursty spec and he out-healed both of our damage by himself and killed us both by himself. We were doing all we could and just could not kill him. Is this just me?

GGG.4803:

Is this just me?

No, it’s probably you AND your friend. I admire your courage to post this tho.

Wait, this happened once? Good enough for me, the evidence is conclusive. Break out the nerf hammer!

Guardians OP? huh? when did this happen? And there are these things called protection blind and aegis….. Guardians can get them but that is what is part of being a guardian is!

some people should not be allowed to post,hotjoiners this days

I vote that people shouldn’t be able to post on the pvp forums unless they are in the top 1000 on the team leaderboards. I sincerely can’t stand posts like the OP’s and there are so many of them these days.

It’s like that guy Gurps, or whatever his name was who was insistent that Warriors didn’t counter Spirit Rangers.

why are you bashing newbies like that? if you got that kind of mentality, you should not be allowed to post here as well. you can educate him in a nice way how to counter a guardian.

this is the reason why pvp is dying little by little.

Valentin.2073:

why are you bashing newbies like that?

Because I’m a bad guy!

i think u faced some good player and it can happen to win 1v2 when realy good player is facing 2 guys who started to play pvp but guard is not OP , u and your frined just need to pratice more.

realy ppl u should think before post , guy is just asking question and u all PRO players were new too so plz stf….

To be fair, it wasn’t a question, it was a suggestion. Check thread title. Questions based on ignorance are good, that’s how we learn. Suggestions based on ignorance are bad, that should be self explanatory.

Mightymealworm.8409:

To be fair, it wasn’t a question, it was a suggestion. Check thread title. Questions based on ignorance are good, that’s how we learn. Suggestions based on ignorance are bad, that should be self explanatory.

you’re not for real, are you?

“Guardians need to be a little less op (over powered)” = suggestion. The first 2 sentences were case examples in support of the suggestion. The third and final sentance was a rhetorical question, much like “your not for real, are you?”

If the original poster has a real question, he can ask away. Offering a blind, blanketed suggestion based off of a singular encounter with little information tends to get treated unfavorably here. Sorry I lost my cool.

Is this just me?

This is not rhetorical lol, he’s literally asking for other people’s opinions quite clearly. He thinks something, and is asking what others think/if it is a faulty thought… There’s something called a charity filter, be charitable to other people unless given reason not to. No reason to assume it’s rhetorical unless it’s obvious/he states it, and I think it’s pretty clearly not rhetorical.

That said, it is just you and you’re wrong IMO. Guardians are not OP, they’re probably the single most balanced profession in the game. Thieves are really easy to kill in 1v2 situations because you can use your AoEs to kill em quickly, I literally accidentally kill thieves on my guardian/necro in 1v2s, as in 1v2s they tend to play more sloppy and get caught in AoEs.

Jasher.6580:

Valentin.2073:

why are you bashing newbies like that?

Because I’m a bad guy!

I can confirm it. Saw it on wikipedia.

just gonna leave this here…
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2pvptv/c/3206647

A ranger dying to a Guard? Why weren’t you kiting him and applying apporiate conditions?

GGG.4803:

I was facing a guardian with a glass cannon thief as a ranger who has a super bursty spec and he out-healed both of our damage by himself and killed us both by himself. We were doing all we could and just could not kill him. Is this just me?

Stop complaining. I’ve seen hammer warriors/engi/necro’s all tank far more than that. And yes, I did say necro..you know,..the squishy/soft armour profession. At least you had a guardian who is designed for defense. Stop attacking them when you see all their blocks cause burning and they perma retaliation up.

OK dude… it is a bad matchup for thief (almost everything is a bad matchup for burst thief cuz ur role isnt to 1v1). However it doesnt mean its OP. Im so sick of hearing what people think is OP lol. L2P

they are not OP, just very tank with alot of burning damage. If they stack enough of it on you , you will eventually die due to them outlasting you while dealing burn dmg.

Guardians have been in the meta for ever now because they are op. Since they usually don´t hurt people (yes they can kill some non sustained dps classes on point) noone is complaining, but anet wasn´t able to create a build for another class that can take the role of a guardian.

Mightymealworm.8409:

To be fair, it wasn’t a question, it was a suggestion. Check thread title. Questions based on ignorance are good, that’s how we learn. Suggestions based on ignorance are bad, that should be self explanatory.

Out of curiosity: How does an ignorant person know if he is ignorant?
He might as well think he is doing it right, and the other class/specc/peron is OP, since he is ignorant.

All you really can do is for people to ask other people to find out IF they are ignorant or IF the class/specc is OP according to other more experienced players as well. Even then, they might as well all be ignorant or lying. Bias is a fantastic factor, that enables you to lie without even realizing you are doing it.

OT: I don’t find guardian in general to be an issue … there are counters to them, but their access to boons might become an issue when ele’s make a comeback … imo.

I play a glass guardian and a glass thief and excel at both of them. I can tell you that a glass guardian can just obliterate any glass thief at will. In a 1v1 situation with equal skill level, the thief will almost never win. They just have too much sustain with each meditation healing for 2k, virtues, focus shield, and shelter.

i wouldn’t say guards are OP, but you brought wrong class to fight guard :/

drop thief, bring anything else…

I’m really confused why the general public seems to think that Guardians need a buff. They are easily one of the strongest classes in the game.

Like every other class it has strengths and weaknesses.
Strengths:

• Survivability through well timed blocks/blinds and burst heals.
• Strong AoE damage.
• Short range-short CD gap closers to stay on target

Weaknesses:

• Unreliable damage if not next to target.
• Low constant mobility.
• Will die to conditions after long CDs are down.

With this you should understand that guardians are going to be dominant when fighting on point, but really weak if you force them to fight off node. If you want to beat a guardian, make him blow CDs before he hops on a node, if you’re going to try and fight him on a node, you’re going to lose (unless you’re really really good).

OP there is a reason why guardian is a must in almost all teams since the beginning.

That’s the bunker Guard.

Not the DPS Guardian. The DPS Guard is easily kited, gets torn up by condi pressure and does most damage at melee range. This means he takes huge cleave and AoE damage. (Weaknesses that make him balanced and easy to counter – not OP).

Bunker Guard is a must because people want one class to handle condi removal, stability stomps and rezzes and the Guardian can do that with a very straight forward setup.

Other professions can bunker well, Engi, Warrior even Ele. But they don’t do everything as straight forward as a Guardian, even though you could build a team to work with it. People don’t like change.

The bunker Guardian offers a simple base to work from. People like simple.

Guardian is op. There is a reason why every high level team that is successful has one. They just generally don’t hurt.

Valentin.2073:

this is the reason why pvp is dying little by little.

So…
You think the game is dying… because some players are kittens…
Man, League of Legends must be a ghost town.. oh wait.

Players being nice is nice and is it’s own end; it barely, if at all, relates to a game’s success.

Guardians may not be OP now but they defently have potential to become the OPiest class ever…
Back in beta they were..
Guardians have many blocks,inv,etc etc..
Anet said they wanted to buff the dmg of Guardians…Judging from their “balancing skills” i bet 10 dollars that they would be really OP after dec patch…

What is the name of that Guardian? Is it Lonzl? >.>

Without specifics, but i can think of a staff/hammer build that pretty much uses all the traits you’d expect, but all the utilities you wouldn’t..and I’m confident when i say a power sword warrior/ scepter necro and dagger ele all ganking them would still have remarkable difficultly dropping them in under 2 minutes. I know this because I was the sword warrior to the group. Went to spectate and knew what traits they had…but was surprised by what utilities they took. Provided they don’t have to move too far off point, the build could tank all day long no problems.

It’s kinda like Rock, Paper, Scissors. I play a Thief too, no matter what I do, I will always get killed by Guardian, whether by player skill or bad luck. But, as my Ele, Guardians are really easy. Given that you had a Ranger with you though, you should’ve at least downed him unless he was a bunker and just outlasted you.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Guardians may not be OP now but they defently have potential to become the OPiest class ever…
Back in beta they were..
Guardians have many blocks,inv,etc etc..
Anet said they wanted to buff the dmg of Guardians…Judging from their “balancing skills” i bet 10 dollars that they would be really OP after dec patch…

Guard Dec 10th patch isn’t going to change us much at all based on what they’ve released so far. It’s all very minor compared to what is happening to other classes. We’ll probably have less access to swiftness now though.

You may have faced me in hot joins

I always like running around and killing people 2v1, especially when they start to think my class is overpowered.

If you truly think they are overpowered, simply spectate a guardian and watch how it plays and then counter it. You have the ability to view everyone’s gear and skills in hot joins.

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Guardians may not be OP now but they defently have potential to become the OPiest class ever…
Back in beta they were..
Guardians have many blocks,inv,etc etc..
Anet said they wanted to buff the dmg of Guardians…Judging from their “balancing skills” i bet 10 dollars that they would be really OP after dec patch…

Let’s get some perspective. In Beta they had higher health AND blocked 20% of attacks. Both have been nerfed into the ground.

Guardiam has long been one of the most balanced classes in the game and while other classes have gotten nice buffs, Guardian has experienced nerf after nerf to key class abilities. TBH other classes even bunker better in many situations. Unlike other classes it only has one real build for tpvp and some minor variations of it.

Like any class there are some thief builds that guardian just tears apart and others they struggle with.

Relentliss.2170:

Dardamaniac.1295:

Guardians may not be OP now but they defently have potential to become the OPiest class ever…
Back in beta they were..
Guardians have many blocks,inv,etc etc..
Anet said they wanted to buff the dmg of Guardians…Judging from their “balancing skills” i bet 10 dollars that they would be really OP after dec patch…

Let’s get some perspective. In Beta they had higher health AND blocked 20% of attacks. Both have been nerfed into the ground.

Guardiam has long been one of the most balanced classes in the game and while other classes have gotten nice buffs, Guardian has experienced nerf after nerf to key class abilities. TBH other classes even bunker better in many situations. Unlike other classes it only has one real build for tpvp and some minor variations of it.

Like any class there are some thief builds that guardian just tears apart and others they struggle with.

^This right here. People need to read it and comprehend it.

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

In all fairness to the OP, the guardian could have had 25 stacks of life. Stacks are OP and need to be removed. That along with kitten Skyhammer. That is all.

Ezrael.6859:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

Which are those classes. I count only necro and engineer, with spirit ranger somwhat cutting it.

Viable ranged weapons lol. Guardian scepter auto has the highest base damage even if the speed of the projectiles is slower to make up for it. And in a format where close quarters combat is mandated to conserve points, arguing about ranged weapons is moot.

And none of those condition builds or ranged weapons make them mandatory. You can swap a conditionmancer for a spirit ranger or engineer for largely similar results in aoe condition pressure.

You cannot build a team without a guardian bunker. No other class is as essential as a guardian.

Zenith.7301:

Ezrael.6859:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

Which are those classes. I count only necro and engineer, with spirit ranger somwhat cutting it.

Viable ranged weapons lol. Guardian scepter auto has the highest base damage even if the speed of the projectiles is slower to make up for it. And in a format where close quarters combat is mandated to conserve points, arguing about ranged weapons is moot.

And none of those condition builds or ranged weapons make them mandatory. You can swap a conditionmancer for a spirit ranger or engineer for largely similar results in aoe condition pressure.

You cannot build a team without a guardian bunker. No other class is as essential as a guardian.

Even if it were true, which it isn’t , don’t you think that Guards need less nerfs in terms of the thing they were meant to do? It’s not like Guardians can do anything else in Tournaments because of their wonderfully low base health?

Arthos Ravron.3796:

Zenith.7301:

Ezrael.6859:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

Which are those classes. I count only necro and engineer, with spirit ranger somwhat cutting it.

Viable ranged weapons lol. Guardian scepter auto has the highest base damage even if the speed of the projectiles is slower to make up for it. And in a format where close quarters combat is mandated to conserve points, arguing about ranged weapons is moot.

And none of those condition builds or ranged weapons make them mandatory. You can swap a conditionmancer for a spirit ranger or engineer for largely similar results in aoe condition pressure.

You cannot build a team without a guardian bunker. No other class is as essential as a guardian.

Even if it were true, which it isn’t , don’t you think that Guards need less nerfs in terms of the thing they were meant to do? It’s not like Guardians can do anything else in Tournaments because of their wonderfully low base health?

Their DPS spec just needs a kitten snare. That’s about it.

And bring me recent tournament winners who didn’t have a single guardian in their team.

jportell.2197:

Relentliss.2170:

Dardamaniac.1295:

Guardians may not be OP now but they defently have potential to become the OPiest class ever…
Back in beta they were..
Guardians have many blocks,inv,etc etc..
Anet said they wanted to buff the dmg of Guardians…Judging from their “balancing skills” i bet 10 dollars that they would be really OP after dec patch…

Let’s get some perspective. In Beta they had higher health AND blocked 20% of attacks. Both have been nerfed into the ground.

Guardiam has long been one of the most balanced classes in the game and while other classes have gotten nice buffs, Guardian has experienced nerf after nerf to key class abilities. TBH other classes even bunker better in many situations. Unlike other classes it only has one real build for tpvp and some minor variations of it.

Like any class there are some thief builds that guardian just tears apart and others they struggle with.

^This right here. People need to read it and comprehend it.

Guardians may notice these nerfs, but to players of other classes, Guardians are that class that’s never had a problem getting a party, and has been a top tier pick for parties accross all modes. In PvP, any team worth its salt has at least one Guardian. In WvW they’re the backbone of the zerg, the more Guards you have the better. In PvE, unless you’re doing speed runs, people always cringe at the thought of a party without a Guardian. No other class in the game has enjoyed this kind of viability across all modes since launch, so it’s easy to see why other classes are envious of Guards and get disgusted when Guards say their class has problems.

And thats why we dont listen to the opinions of others who dont play/know about other classes.

Zenith.7301:

Arthos Ravron.3796:

Zenith.7301:

Ezrael.6859:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

Which are those classes. I count only necro and engineer, with spirit ranger somwhat cutting it.

Viable ranged weapons lol. Guardian scepter auto has the highest base damage even if the speed of the projectiles is slower to make up for it. And in a format where close quarters combat is mandated to conserve points, arguing about ranged weapons is moot.

And none of those condition builds or ranged weapons make them mandatory. You can swap a conditionmancer for a spirit ranger or engineer for largely similar results in aoe condition pressure.

You cannot build a team without a guardian bunker. No other class is as essential as a guardian.

Even if it were true, which it isn’t , don’t you think that Guards need less nerfs in terms of the thing they were meant to do? It’s not like Guardians can do anything else in Tournaments because of their wonderfully low base health?

Their DPS spec just needs a kitten snare. That’s about it.

And bring me recent tournament winners who didn’t have a single guardian in their team.

I’m pretty sure there are tournaments where a team with a good engi bunker won.

Remember that Guard bunkers are still susceptible to condition burst and long enough sustain (because Cleric’s and low base health)

If you were to nerf the bunker capabilities of a Guardian, how could you? Bunker eles were better than Guardians at some point before. Do you want to see Guardians back in the awesome “most balanced” but less viable" build.

Zenith.7301:

Ezrael.6859:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

Which are those classes. I count only necro and engineer, with spirit ranger somwhat cutting it.

Viable ranged weapons lol. Guardian scepter auto has the highest base damage even if the speed of the projectiles is slower to make up for it. And in a format where close quarters combat is mandated to conserve points, arguing about ranged weapons is moot.

And none of those condition builds or ranged weapons make them mandatory. You can swap a conditionmancer for a spirit ranger or engineer for largely similar results in aoe condition pressure.

You cannot build a team without a guardian bunker. No other class is as essential as a guardian.

Ranger has many viable condi builds. Bleed stacks and Poison from weapons or Spirits or Traps.
Mesmer can build for condi spread mostly Confusion and Bleeding.
Warrior can build for Condis with Bleeding and Burning + Torment and Confusion.
Thief can build for Condis, mostly Bleeding and Poison, LDB Thieves were all the rage once.
Necro and Engineer are naturally full of condi spam.

Ele is in a similar place to Guard, Power based with low base hp.

Scepter has the highest single target damage in PvE or against target golems.

In PvP against players that move the orbs still have terrible accuracy, Smite lands 2-3 hits out of 15 against any competent player and against a group the hits are all spread out as it’s not a true AoE.

The Scepter is good on paper, terrible in reality.

You can build a team without a bunker Guardian, you just have to do some thinking.
A bunker Guardian makes it nice and simple by providing a base player that can do some group heals, condi clear, apply boons and a little cc. From that base you add your flavour of damage.

You could build a base with a bunker Engi, or Ele or Warrior. But then you need to make sure you have group condi clear somewhere else, or cc from another place.
It requires more thinking and most players don’t like thinking. They like simple.

It’s why they all run similar team builds, why individual players all copy a single build and we have 2 Hambow Warriors and Spirit Rangers in teams, all using the exact same builds they copied from the exact same place.

Zenith.7301:

Arthos Ravron.3796:

Zenith.7301:

Ezrael.6859:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf Stand Your Ground.

30 sec cd AoE stability for the group is so ridiculously overbudget. Other classes pay a much steeper cd for a SINGLE player stability cd.

Other classes have viable condition builds, viable ranged weapons and mobility.

Which are those classes. I count only necro and engineer, with spirit ranger somwhat cutting it.

Viable ranged weapons lol. Guardian scepter auto has the highest base damage even if the speed of the projectiles is slower to make up for it. And in a format where close quarters combat is mandated to conserve points, arguing about ranged weapons is moot.

And none of those condition builds or ranged weapons make them mandatory. You can swap a conditionmancer for a spirit ranger or engineer for largely similar results in aoe condition pressure.

You cannot build a team without a guardian bunker. No other class is as essential as a guardian.

Even if it were true, which it isn’t , don’t you think that Guards need less nerfs in terms of the thing they were meant to do? It’s not like Guardians can do anything else in Tournaments because of their wonderfully low base health?

Their DPS spec just needs a kitten snare. That’s about it.

And bring me recent tournament winners who didn’t have a single guardian in their team.

Alright I’m going to list all the possible snares that a guardian can have in a build and you tell me if they need more; 4 second immob, 3 second kd, 2 second kd, ring of warding, line of warding, Binding blade, chains of light, Zealot’s embrace and that’s not including the teleports they have but hey, they need more.

Why do people expect a class that is built around teamfighting to be a duelist against everybody too?

Im still wondering how its possible to lose a 2v1 in this game.

Relentless.7023:

Why do people expect a class that is built around teamfighting to be a duelist against everybody too?

Let’s give him more support abilities because he obviously can’t duel because he’s a support profession!

/sarcasm

Although I do agree that Guards aren’t supposed to have as much potential in duels as Mesmers and Thieves, the class should at least be able to hold its own.