Guild Wars 2

waka.9826:

I talked to Hammon in game who is a dev and he said HGH is getting nerfed. Gadgets are not being worked on at the moment and basically nothing else lol.

And that’s the sad joke, HGH is nothing new, its not some amazing new spec because of a buff last patch.

If they really nerf HGH instead of addressing might stacking runes which are the real problem, it proves this game is balanced around forum whiners, as has been said, Ele’s have been OP for months, they still are, a decent Thief or Mesmer will eat a HGH Engi for breakfast.

Sad, really sad!

fishybill.6908:

And that’s the sad joke, HGH is nothing new, its not some amazing new spec because of a buff last patch.

If they really nerf HGH instead of addressing might stacking runes which are the real problem, it proves this game is balanced around forum whiners, as has been said, Ele’s have been OP for months, they still are, a decent Thief or Mesmer will eat a HGH Engi for breakfast.

Sad, really sad!

It would be sad, especially seeing as though half this thread seems to be the posts of one misinformed mesmer player

Mrbig.8019:

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

lol a thief is kinda like the best counter to hgh engies.

if you have elixir s on CD ( and usually, even when you don’t, as long as the thief is good and fakes his burst), you’re pretty much dead without any chance to react.

omg there’s too much fuss around hgh engies, they’re strong but not gamebreaking.

The ele is gambreaking. Why don’t you QQ about the ele, like every sane person ?

LoL, no worry he did on every Eles post. And you too, instead of direct ur trouble to Eles, how about learn to play against Eles? I have good Engines eat my eles eat me everyday.does that make Engineer Op?No

Did you know what is funy? How ppl mention only HGH:-) This build isnt only about HGH (yea mights are fine but they just help not win) but about combination of many traits, skills, gear, runes, sigils and also high skill cap AND especialy right grenade landing.

It will be surprise for some ofyou but this build will work without HGH you just die 2-3s later:-)

Had some good results vs HGH on my Mesmer using the following build:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFcZ;1VPF01A7wUV71;9;4JJ-T-06-49;225A;9Ewk2Ewk25Bk

You lose quite a bit of utility and damage, but get pressured a lot less overall…

jportell, I have to give you again the trophy of “worlds best mesmer in the forum”. You should play some other classes instead of mesmer to comment on Non-Mesmer-Topics though.
Your posts are too onesided and in every of those you need to underline your argumentationwith the mesmer-class. I don’t like when ppl start to talk about classes they actually never played in a complete way.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell, I have to give you again the trophy of “worlds best mesmer in the forum”. You should play some other classes instead of mesmer to comment on Non-Mesmer-Topics though.
Your posts are too onesided and in every of those you need to underline your argumentationwith the mesmer-class. I don’t like when ppl start to talk about classes they actually never played in a complete way.

Okay there Shirley because I don’t have a necro, engi, guardian, thief, and an ele? When it comes to boon uptime this build knocks my guardian out of the park and yes while that Mesmer build that may have been posted just one or two posts above it eliminates nearly ALLL of that mesmers power and to be honest I’m not quite sure exactly why he chose mental torment over empowered illusions since he had phantasmal strength right there or why he didn’t choose menders purity since he was in a line that deal DIRECTLY with helping mesmers lose conditions or why compounding celerity was even considered over wardens feedback which would help throw grenades right back in the guys face… The point is at that point he has become nothing more to his team than a taxi and someone that can hopefully get enough boons off of an engi before the conditions wreck him…

This build is strong Ostrich has admitted it’s OPness and it has been confirmed that something about this build is going to be nerfed… And in tournaments I will bring normally bring a necro, Mesmer, engi, orrrr my guardian So I only play Mesmer you say? Well if you ever face a Sylvari guardian that looks like a crazy version of the joker that is kitten near unkillable… Well that will be me there princess… Now excuse me I have to go take a real world test on medication administration, patient safety, pain management annnndddddd physical assessment… You have a good day now. Kthx bai!

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell, I have to give you again the trophy of “worlds best mesmer in the forum”. You should play some other classes instead of mesmer to comment on Non-Mesmer-Topics though.
Your posts are too onesided and in every of those you need to underline your argumentationwith the mesmer-class. I don’t like when ppl start to talk about classes they actually never played in a complete way.

Okay there Shirley because I don’t have a necro, engi, guardian, thief, and an ele? When it comes to boon uptime this build knocks my guardian out of the park and yes while that Mesmer build that may have been posted just one or two posts above it eliminates nearly ALLL of that mesmers power and to be honest I’m not quite sure exactly why he chose mental torment over empowered illusions since he had phantasmal strength right there or why he didn’t choose menders purity since he was in a line that deal DIRECTLY with helping mesmers lose conditions or why compounding celerity was even considered over wardens feedback which would help throw grenades right back in the guys face… The point is at that point he has become nothing more to his team than a taxi and someone that can hopefully get enough boons off of an engi before the conditions wreck him…

This build is strong Ostrich has admitted it’s OPness and it has been confirmed that something about this build is going to be nerfed… And in tournaments I will bring normally bring a necro, Mesmer, engi, orrrr my guardian So I only play Mesmer you say? Well if you ever face a Sylvari guardian that looks like a crazy version of the joker that is kitten near unkillable… Well that will be me there princess… Now excuse me I have to go take a real world test on medication administration, patient safety, pain management annnndddddd physical assessment… You have a good day now. Kthx bai!

I don’t even….wat….

Stealth.9324:

Mrbig.8019:

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

lol a thief is kinda like the best counter to hgh engies.

if you have elixir s on CD ( and usually, even when you don’t, as long as the thief is good and fakes his burst), you’re pretty much dead without any chance to react.

omg there’s too much fuss around hgh engies, they’re strong but not gamebreaking.

The ele is gambreaking. Why don’t you QQ about the ele, like every sane person ?

LoL, no worry he did on every Eles post. And you too, instead of direct ur trouble to Eles, how about learn to play against Eles? I have good Engines eat my eles eat me everyday.does that make Engineer Op?No

wut

no, i mean, there’s still people seriously defending eles ?

Even top eles say eles are too strong, triple cantrip ele is ridicolously OP and has NO COUNTER aside being outnumbered ( and yoy also need to outnumber him with the right proffs, otherwise he can easily resist 1vs3 for quite some time).

HGH engies are easily countered by burst, CCs and retaliation and can be soloed easily if you avoid key spells like blowtorch, freeze granades and glue shot.

A guardian can be easily soloed by an engie, by a thief ( unless he’s using shaman amulet), by a necro and by a ranger, plus he can’t go pushing far node BEFORE the team arrives. Moreover, a guardian can’t simply leave a fight and come back after 5 seconds back again at full health, or simply go away pushing mid.

If you can’t understand how gamebreaking the ele bunker is ( and even more eles stacking), and if you really believe HGH engie is more gamebreaking than a well played ele, i think you should seriously L2P.

@Mrbig: You know what, if your BS Thief could kill eles right now, you would be telling anyone who complain about eles to L2P. That is who you are. Just because your BS Thief can kill HGH engie that doesn’t mean HGH engie is not OP. Just because I can dodge those over 5k spammable Autoatk that doesn’t mean he is fine. Otherwise eles are fine too because you should be capable of dodging everything he threw at you, isn’t it since you are a “PRO”.

Has any class not been described as “gamebreakingly OP” in this thread yet? lol

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

You should play some other classes instead of mesmer to comment on Non-Mesmer-Topics though.
Your posts are too onesided and in every of those you need to underline your argumentationwith the mesmer-class.

… because I don’t have a …ENGI….?

…and yes while that Mesmer build that may have been posted just one or two posts above it eliminates nearly ALLL of that mesmers power… (some more arguments based on mesmer…)

And in tournaments I will bring normally bring a …. ENGI orrrr ….

if you ever face a Sylvari guardian that looks like a crazy version of the joker that is kitten near unkillable… Well that will be me there princess…

What I just read … I mean …. Wow.
You should reread your posts first before click on “Reply”.

Siva Mira.3546:

@Mrbig: You know what, if your BS Thief could kill eles right now, you would be telling anyone who complain about eles to L2P. That is who you are. Just because your BS Thief can kill HGH engie that doesn’t mean HGH engie is not OP. Just because I can dodge those over 5k spammable Autoatk that doesn’t mean he is fine. Otherwise eles are fine too because you should be capable of dodging everything he threw at you, isn’t it since you are a “PRO”.

Now thieves are OP ?

Where is this thread going omg Q_Q

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

You should play some other classes instead of mesmer to comment on Non-Mesmer-Topics though.
Your posts are too onesided and in every of those you need to underline your argumentationwith the mesmer-class.

… because I don’t have a …ENGI….?

…and yes while that Mesmer build that may have been posted just one or two posts above it eliminates nearly ALLL of that mesmers power… (some more arguments based on mesmer…)

And in tournaments I will bring normally bring a …. ENGI orrrr ….

if you ever face a Sylvari guardian that looks like a crazy version of the joker that is kitten near unkillable… Well that will be me there princess…

What I just read … I mean …. Wow.
You should reread your posts first before click on “Reply”.

The point is… BEFORE I started making claims about my feelings on this build… I did exactly as the build guide stated then took it too tourneys used it and looked at the damage/survivability/condition removal/boon up time and soooo on… I was disgusted with how well everything went. After that (you know how when people say try thieves before you call em OP etc etc for just about every class that wants to defend their builds against QQ) is when I made my mind up that this build was just a little to good compared to every other build for every other class in this game.

My comment about the Mesmer posting their build is yay they took shattered conditions. But they also forgot about empowered illusions in domination since that would be a much better choice for a build that had no points in illusions. He also took traits that rewarded keeping illusions up but also shattering… The entire build seemed counter intuitive… Plus if you are making a build that is somewhat based around shatters most go at least 5 points into illusions because with out either the minor trait illusionists celerity or the traited weapons (neither of which he had.) The CD’s for nearly all illusion summoning skills weapon and slot is really long there by hurting DPS output….

And lastly my point about me playing other classes like engi, necro, guard, thief, and ele was that my opinion does not just come from a Mesmer perspective… My opinion is coming from trying this build and seeing just how crazy good it is.

jcbroe.4329:

Grenix.1576:

HGH is a strong trait. Its also our ONLY strong trait. The rest of Engineer is pure crap, and a lot of stuff is bugged. (snipe, deployable turret for example) Also our elixer U has been broken with new changes. Now 1/3 of time those skills do just nothing at all because they removed invisiblity barier from the RNG.. If you think Engineer is OP then seriously look at some thiefs/mesmer/elementalist.. They are gods that you cant even touch sometimes.

And turrets just dont work well in pvp OR pve.. maybe in a 1vs1? I dont want my engi for just 1vs1 with turret builds.

I wouldn’t say its the only strong trait. It is a very strong trait, yes. But Incendiary Powder is also strong, as proccing the strongest damaging condition in a condition build definitely is useful.

Not all of the classes have access to burning in the game, or are considered viable when building for that as opposed to building for something the metagame considers them strong at.

Not that it is an issue with the class either, but it isn’t like this particular trait is making condi engineers any weaker either.

I definitely share this viewpoint.

Incendiary Powder is much too strong for a 10 point trait. 33% 2s burn on a 3s internal cooldown is over 50% burn uptime with rabid amulet and grenade’s multi hit attacks. Compare this to many classes that don’t even have access to burning, or Ele’s Burning Precision that gives 1s burn on the same IC, or even Guardian’s virtue burn that gives 1s burn on every 5 attacks, and you can see how completely out of line it is.

Grenade kit doesn’t have access to burn naturally, and this would have kept things somewhat in balance if it wasn’t for this trait (i.e. there would be a need to switch to pistol and get in range for blowtorch to stack long burns, and confusion, grenade for every other condition).

In my opinion this trait is the biggest problem with the build, and is the only thing that needs to be toned down. Instead of nerfing anything else on the engy, we should try to bring other classes on par with the Engy’s access to the 4 major damaging conditions, and possibly, their access to might.

Here’s a list of what conditions other classes are missing at the moment:

Ele – Poison, Confusion
Guard – Bleed, Poison, Confusion
Warr – Poison, Confusion
Necro – Burn, Confusion
Thief – Burn, Confusion
Mesmer – Poison
Ranger – Confusion

Guardians and Thieves are in the worst condition (lol pun) right now when it comes to condi builds because Guardian only has access to burn, while Thieves have poison and bleed but cannot stack bleeds effectively enough to compensate for the lack of burn and its higher base damage.

Kaon.7192:

jcbroe.4329:

Grenix.1576:

HGH is a strong trait. Its also our ONLY strong trait. The rest of Engineer is pure crap, and a lot of stuff is bugged. (snipe, deployable turret for example) Also our elixer U has been broken with new changes. Now 1/3 of time those skills do just nothing at all because they removed invisiblity barier from the RNG.. If you think Engineer is OP then seriously look at some thiefs/mesmer/elementalist.. They are gods that you cant even touch sometimes.

And turrets just dont work well in pvp OR pve.. maybe in a 1vs1? I dont want my engi for just 1vs1 with turret builds.

I wouldn’t say its the only strong trait. It is a very strong trait, yes. But Incendiary Powder is also strong, as proccing the strongest damaging condition in a condition build definitely is useful.

Not all of the classes have access to burning in the game, or are considered viable when building for that as opposed to building for something the metagame considers them strong at.

Not that it is an issue with the class either, but it isn’t like this particular trait is making condi engineers any weaker either.

I definitely share this viewpoint.

Incendiary Powder is much too strong for a 10 point trait. 33% 2s burn on a 3s internal cooldown is over 50% burn uptime with rabid amulet and grenade’s multi hit attacks. Compare this to many classes that don’t even have access to burning, or Ele’s Burning Precision that gives 1s burn on the same IC, or even Guardian’s virtue burn that gives 1s burn on every 5 attacks, and you can see how completely out of line it is.

Grenade kit doesn’t have access to burn naturally, and this would have kept things somewhat in balance if it wasn’t for this trait (i.e. there would be a need to switch to pistol and get in range for blowtorch to stack long burns, and confusion, grenade for every other condition).

In my opinion this trait is the biggest problem with the build, and is the only thing that needs to be toned down. Instead of nerfing anything else on the engy, we should try to bring other classes on par with the Engy’s access to the 4 major damaging conditions, and possibly, their access to might.

Here’s a list of what conditions other classes are missing at the moment:

Ele – Poison, Confusion
Guard – Bleed, Poison, Confusion
Warr – Poison, Confusion
Necro – Burn, Confusion
Thief – Burn, Confusion
Mesmer – Poison
Ranger – Confusion

Guardians and Thieves are in the worst condition (lol pun) right now when it comes to condi builds because Guardian only has access to burn, while Thieves have poison and bleed but cannot stack bleeds effectively enough to compensate for the lack of burn and its higher base damage.

This might just be true. Honestly the crux of the entire build is the absurd amounts of damage from burning. Burning has an EXTREMELY high base damage (8x the base damage of bleeds) and scales very well with condi damage (25 per 100 condi damage)

At 25 stacks of corruption it’s not rare to see 800 burn ticks in this build.

But the oddest part of it all is that it’s not the entirety of the build and we have less access to burning than rangers with a torch offhand and flame trap.

The engi supply drop elite needs nerfing. Easily the best elite in the game.

I love how much engineers are saying their supply drop elite is worthless when in fact it is that elite that adds so much control to their builds and let’s them melt anyone near a point

Lordrosicky.5813:

The engi supply drop elite needs nerfing. Easily the best elite in the game.

It is probably the best elite for on-point 1v1’s, yeah. Largely un-noticed in teamfights though, due to the turrets needing to be placed where you want the stun, then getting annihilated.

This is the silliest flavour of the month post yet.

Mesmer was BS and in turn almost nothing changed (unless your no skill phant build then gg PERMA protection gone.) mesmer has never really had a hard nerf buggy patches aside.

Thief was kind of a low skill gank to equal QQ and was really only hit for new players, good thieves still play fine, also nice how Dancing dagger can’t roll team fights. (HS should still get some attention though. IMO but still not bad)

Ele I half agreed with, they were never a problem 1v1 but I did kind of agree with any hits they had taken.

Engie is fine -_-

Yes thy condi remove a lot and apply a lot, but unless your in a tight area without a condi remover you’ll win 1v1 most of the time. Not to mention any burst is easy to doge.

Can they be hard to kill and carry team fights, yes! Does tht make them OP? No.

What is OP IMO?
Anything that can out live anything incoming and has consistent unavoidable damage.

This means bunkers are endless fights, and glass cannons will get owned without any skill.

Engie has none of this. They are just a decent class with a decent spec.

@jportell just run null if your on point, or mantra if your roaming.
Eventually you’ll have a side deck of skills you can use and it’ll be better.

Btw if we’re gonna go all about things classes have others don’t, lets not forget our crazy boon removal. Not sure if engies can o that.

The difference is that the engie bunkers not by avoiding dmg, but being tanky while destroying whoever comes to his base including bunkers. That effectively rules out the point of point bunker guards, who can last for a bit but can’t kill and melts under an engie.

Raptured.9307:

The difference is that the engie bunkers not by avoiding dmg, but being tanky while destroying whoever comes to his base including bunkers. That effectively rules out the point of point bunker guards, who can last for a bit but can’t kill and melts under an engie.

omg, almost every class has a fair chance to win against a HGH engie 1vs1.

almost

every

class

1vs1

HGH engi is strong ( maybe too much) but this discussion is going way out of hand.

Raptured.9307:

The difference is that the engie bunkers not by avoiding dmg, but being tanky while destroying whoever comes to his base including bunkers. That effectively rules out the point of point bunker guards, who can last for a bit but can’t kill and melts under an engie.

LOL.

Gotta love those 30/30/30/30/30 Engineers who can sit on point and melt full bunker guardians.

Condition Engineers can’t stay on point in a few 1v1 match-ups, let alone in any 2+ enemy skirmish. Ranger holds a point much better.

Condition Engineers will beat a bunker guardian 1v1 almost always, but the time to kill is usually around 40 seconds. Same boat as Necro & Ranger.

True bunker Engies (Toolkit, Elixir Gun) can’t melt anything. . .

shhhhhh the secret is out! :O! 3030303030

I have to agree with Jport… might stacking is key here.

This may be more of a global issue than a class issue… like quickness.

I think the first adjustment needs to be made to the might stacking runes. This will resolve the problem of eng having too much power along with condition and eles having more dmg than they should for their survival and sustainability.

Put a 10 second min internal CD on the effect. These things were obviously designed with only 2 weapons in mind and ~10 sec CD for switching not to be spammed to gain might.

I also disagree with supply crate being ‘unnoticed’ in team fights. IMO the AOE stun is the killer…

What do you guys think?

might stacking makes the condition stronger but the build would still wok without it. the problem with people QQ and crying about build ( jport) is that they refuse to adjust build to the meta. and instead come o the forum and cry nerf so they can continue the same glass cannon shatter build.

and supply doesn’t go unnoticed vs 1 player, but on a zergs that’s all it is. a 2 second stun as our elite on a 180CD which can be blocked, dodged etc, and on tPvP that means nothing cause everyone has stun breakers. Supply is a killer only when you use the stun at the right time.

google.3709:

might stacking makes the condition stronger but the build would still wok without it. the problem with people QQ and crying about build ( jport) is that they refuse to adjust build to the meta. and instead come o the forum and cry nerf so they can continue the same glass cannon shatter build.

and supply doesn’t go unnoticed vs 1 player, but on a zergs that’s all it is. a 2 second stun as our elite on a 180CD which can be blocked, dodged etc, and on tPvP that means nothing cause everyone has stun breakers. Supply is a killer only when you use the stun at the right time.

You act as if a 2 second AOE stun isn’t a big deal? on most maps the size of that AOE is the size of the node… And I have tried this build and I can see how crazy good it is when compared to others in this game… A 2 second AOE stun right now is more gold than timewarp in a team fight… And people may have stun breakers but the turrets make the fight a targeting night mare (kind of like minion necros) and give some decent advantages to your team… All while you are maxed out on might stacks lobbing condition after condition into the circle keeping in mind that few if any builds have as many different flavors of conditions as this build… It honestly only lacks fear and weakness… Everything else its got…. And to blindly defend something as OP as this while refusing to acknowledge that it has been said it’s getting nerfed is what really boggles my mind.

waka.9826:

I talked to Hammon in game who is a dev and he said HGH is getting nerfed. Gadgets are not being worked on at the moment and basically nothing else lol.

Can’t tell if serious.

If so, where does that leave us? What decent build(s) do we have left that we can take into tPvP?

What you have right now is beyond decent. I guess devs are trying to make it decent and bring out other decent possibilities
And no I’ve seen quite a number of bunker guards melt to hghs in less than 30s on average and the fact that they can melt such a bunker heavy class without help ruins their niche, while having no actual weaknesses of their own (beats glass easily as well). Don’t know why am still discussing this when anet realized the monstrosity they created and said to nerf anyway

@jportell.2197
smh.. again learn to read and do research before you speak, Supply has a 240 radious. and if a 2s stun on a 180 CD is game breaking for you.. then maybe PvP is not the thing for you, specially since you’re a mesmer, normally you run with 2 stun breakers dont ya

Also look who’s talking about messing up targeting. a mesmer… you have lost too much credibility
@Raptured.9307

“I guess devs are trying to make it decent and bring out other decent possibilities”

And only if that was true. if they do nerf is because they are “fixing” a problem, instead of “creating” a solution. just look at the engineer nerf record lol

jportell.2197:

google.3709:

might stacking makes the condition stronger but the build would still wok without it. the problem with people QQ and crying about build ( jport) is that they refuse to adjust build to the meta. and instead come o the forum and cry nerf so they can continue the same glass cannon shatter build.

and supply doesn’t go unnoticed vs 1 player, but on a zergs that’s all it is. a 2 second stun as our elite on a 180CD which can be blocked, dodged etc, and on tPvP that means nothing cause everyone has stun breakers. Supply is a killer only when you use the stun at the right time.

You act as if a 2 second AOE stun isn’t a big deal? on most maps the size of that AOE is the size of the node… And I have tried this build and I can see how crazy good it is when compared to others in this game… A 2 second AOE stun right now is more gold than timewarp in a team fight… And people may have stun breakers but the turrets make the fight a targeting night mare (kind of like minion necros) and give some decent advantages to your team… All while you are maxed out on might stacks lobbing condition after condition into the circle keeping in mind that few if any builds have as many different flavors of conditions as this build… It honestly only lacks fear and weakness… Everything else its got…. And to blindly defend something as OP as this while refusing to acknowledge that it has been said it’s getting nerfed is what really boggles my mind.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

I do think that while this is the sort of stuff that should get nerfed in pvp, pve should not get touched.

Anet has known about bunker guardians for 8 months nothing has changed.

They’ve known about bunker ele’s for 6 months no changes.

Mesmer’s are a must in every team comp since release and received a bugged changed that gave them the ability to 1 shot ppl and that took months to fix.

Where would you get the idea that debating or what this really is whining on the forums would make anything change about the engi?

Raptured.9307:

What you have right now is beyond decent. I guess devs are trying to make it decent and bring out other decent possibilities

I didn’t say HGH was decent; in fact, I’m avoiding this entire silly debate about whether it’s OP or not OP or… whatever. I’m kind of confused about why something like this would pop up on the chopping block so quickly, when Ele—correct me if I’m wrong—seems to be almost universally viewed as OP, and has been for quite some time. But I supposed that’s a different discussion altogether.

If the quote in my previous post is accurate, then this build is getting nerfed and the dev’s alleged comments can be interpreted two ways:

1) HGH is getting nerfed and no buffs are presently coming to the Engi, or
2) HGH is getting nerfed and ANet thinks Engi’s are otherwise “fine.”

1 leaves us in a bit of a fix for the foreseeable future, because, as I asked in my previous post, what decent build(s) do we have left?

2 is what bothers me, because this might just be the case.

Again, I’m not really interested in discussing whether the build is OP or not… that line of discussion has been tapped, I think. I am interested in the state and future of the Engi.

Honest question I’d like non-Engineers to answer:

Before this build became popular, what was your reaction to encountering an Engineer in tPvP? Did you approach prepared for a good fight, or at all doubting the certainty of victory? Something tells me that, for most people being honest, the answer is ,“No.” I think Engineer was widely viewed as an easy kill. Nerfing (and to be clear, I mean the obliteration of the build, not simply toning it down; this assumption is based on previous Engi nerf history) HGH might just take us back to that status.

Which is why I’m asking, sincerely, what other good build(s) do we have? And, to qualify that, I mean good builds that are on par with other classes and competitive in tPvP.

Before HGH Engis, ppl used to focus other targets, which did more dmg.
Since HGH became very strong, especially in teamfights, the tendation is to focus engineer instead.
I actually like HGH (even when they need some little tweaks), because they are able to reduce the ability to bunker a point. As I play guardian I know how annoying engis are and if not paying attention, you drop pretty fast (for a bunker).

What I don’t like is the additional AoE in tPvP, which increased with the HGH-Build.
Before AoE dmg came especiall from necros and in certain ways from mesmer/ele. For me it was fine. Nowaday the focus relies on AoE.
In the case of Conquest it’s not a good direction to go. (well, A-Net allrdy mentioned they wanna ton down AoE, question is when this will happen)

AlBundy.7851:

Anet has known about bunker guardians for 8 months nothing has changed.

They’ve known about bunker ele’s for 6 months no changes.

Mesmer’s are a must in every team comp since release and received a bugged changed that gave them the ability to 1 shot ppl and that took months to fix.

Where would you get the idea that debating or what this really is whining on the forums would make anything change about the engi?

Because since Beta engineers get kitten by the nerfbat every single patch while people still cried that they are to weak and need some love. Thanks to this thread the devs now know there is a still a “viable” engineer build and the next patch will even more brutal then the last one.

So guys just to get this straight…. according to this thread HGH should be nerfed, as well as the condition cleanses (again) that this build offers. Also the supplycrate needs a look and incendairy powder is also too strong. The might runes should be toned down and the general boon hate that will come, the changes to confusion for WvW and the upcoming general nerfbat for AoE… Did i actually miss something?

Are you Guys kitten serious? Really? After Months of lameabuse of the most broken and oped faceroll Mesmer/Ele,Thief and Guardian builds you really dare to come here and tell the people which play the hardest class to master, that use a pure gimmick build that this is oped?

How about l2p as the most of you dont hesitate to answer if someone QQ about the facerollbuilds most of you use?

Srsly mesmers that cry that thier shatterbuild has no cond removal….. most of you didnt even know what HgH does before this thread existed. I never used it anyway because its totally unneeded and there are way better ways to stack might.

Fun things i learned about the engis in forums:

- HGH engi is the ultimate bunker.
- A warrior is better than a mesmer against a HGH engi (nerf warriors, seriously).
- Tanking engis melt bunkers that dare to come close to them.
- A dev said that HGH engi is going to be nerfed, true story u heard it here first.

AlBundy.7851:

Anet has known about bunker guardians for 8 months nothing has changed.

They’ve known about bunker ele’s for 6 months no changes.

Mesmer’s are a must in every team comp since release and received a bugged changed that gave them the ability to 1 shot ppl and that took months to fix.

Where would you get the idea that debating or what this really is whining on the forums would make anything change about the engi?

If you are talking about shattered strength where we got 3 stacks of might instead of 1 stack per illusion shattered that was fixed in 2 weeks.

jportell.2197:

AlBundy.7851:

Anet has known about bunker guardians for 8 months nothing has changed.

They’ve known about bunker ele’s for 6 months no changes.

Mesmer’s are a must in every team comp since release and received a bugged changed that gave them the ability to 1 shot ppl and that took months to fix.

Where would you get the idea that debating or what this really is whining on the forums would make anything change about the engi?

If you are talking about shattered strength where we got 3 stacks of might instead of 1 stack per illusion shattered that was fixed in 2 weeks.

I think hes referring to the multi shatter where you could with the help of a macro (or so it is said) increase the damage greatly on the total shatter.

miriforst.1290:

jportell.2197:

AlBundy.7851:

Anet has known about bunker guardians for 8 months nothing has changed.

They’ve known about bunker ele’s for 6 months no changes.

Mesmer’s are a must in every team comp since release and received a bugged changed that gave them the ability to 1 shot ppl and that took months to fix.

Where would you get the idea that debating or what this really is whining on the forums would make anything change about the engi?

If you are talking about shattered strength where we got 3 stacks of might instead of 1 stack per illusion shattered that was fixed in 2 weeks.

I think hes referring to the multi shatter where you could with the help of a macro (or so it is said) increase the damage greatly on the total shatter.

That’s also been addressed. We have a global cooldown on pur shatters to keep two shatter effects from triggering on the same illusion

This has gone on too long now, remember this only a month ago:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first

That’s right, the Spvp community pitched Engineers as Tier A class with Mesmers, Guardians and Elementalists as performing better.

Updated 3/28/2013

Tier List Key:
S = Superior (Highest Tier)
A = Average (All classes should strive to be here)
B = Below Average
C =

\\
The – (Negative) sign denotes that the class may fall into a lower Tier.
The + (Positive) sign denotes that the class may get bumped to a higher Tier.
The = (Equal) sign denotes that the class is equivalent to other classes with = in the Tier.
//
————————————————
Tier List v0.0.3 POST PATCH – On going.

Tier S
+ Elementalist

Tier A
+ Guardian
+ Mesmer
- Engineer

Tier B
+ Ranger
= Necro
- Thief

Tier C
-² Warrior (it was suggested this get moved down to an even lower tier)

This is also strange, if you look at the pre patch list:

Tier List v0.0.2 PRE PATCH

Tier S
Elementalist

Tier A
+ Mesmer
=Ranger
- Guardian

Tier B
+ Necro
= Thief
= Engineer

Tier C
Warrior

If I remember rightly, in that patch Engineers received nerfs to Kit Refinement and 100nades and a buff to turrets!

So what has changed? I don’t see a single turret in the HGH build?

To give it some credit, that post had 22183 views and 356 replies.

^ Lol @ Arheundal telling Hiba Engi’s will be complained about in a couple months on the 1st page.
Must be a prophet.

jportell.2197:

miriforst.1290:

jportell.2197:

AlBundy.7851:

Anet has known about bunker guardians for 8 months nothing has changed.

They’ve known about bunker ele’s for 6 months no changes.

Mesmer’s are a must in every team comp since release and received a bugged changed that gave them the ability to 1 shot ppl and that took months to fix.

Where would you get the idea that debating or what this really is whining on the forums would make anything change about the engi?

If you are talking about shattered strength where we got 3 stacks of might instead of 1 stack per illusion shattered that was fixed in 2 weeks.

I think hes referring to the multi shatter where you could with the help of a macro (or so it is said) increase the damage greatly on the total shatter.

That’s also been addressed. We have a global cooldown on pur shatters to keep two shatter effects from triggering on the same illusion

I know, and that was what he said, just that it took its good time to band-aid.

ensoriki.5789:

^ Lol @ Arheundal telling Hiba Engi’s will be complained about in a couple months on the 1st page.
Must be a prophet.

lol!he said it ll happen in 2 months (on a post being written 2 months ago)
He must have the gift :P

Ostricheggs.3742:

1. Ele
2. Ranger/Guardian/Engineer
5. Mesmer/Teef
7. Necro/Warrior

Engis are good, guys. I swear to god.

saw that kitten a mile away. People didn’t wanna listen

Yes! Nerf Engineers please! After you nerfed the elementalists, the rangers, the guardians, the mesmers and the thieves!

It’s not the classes that need to be buffed or nerfed, it’s certain builds.

That tier list is really arbitrary because all of the classes have different roles and are made by players without reason.. Anyway this is all up to Anet and what they think about the current state of balance, so we’ll see in a couple of days. Let’s just hope these nerfs will be limited to pvp.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Kaon.7192:

jcbroe.4329:

Grenix.1576:

Prior Stuff.

More Prior Stuff.

Prior Stuff.

This might just be true. Honestly the crux of the entire build is the absurd amounts of damage from burning. Burning has an EXTREMELY high base damage (8x the base damage of bleeds) and scales very well with condi damage (25 per 100 condi damage)

At 25 stacks of corruption it’s not rare to see 800 burn ticks in this build.

But the oddest part of it all is that it’s not the entirety of the build and we have less access to burning than rangers with a torch offhand and flame trap.

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree about it not being the entirety of the build, but I disagree about having less access than rangers to burning.

I don’t fully disagree, rangers definitely have access to the lowest cooldown burning sources and some of the longest duration burns. But it is more so just a different type of burning application, because rangers do have to take those specific tools with long(ish) cooldowns (long in this case meaning if it were to be cleansed, the burn can’t just be reapplied).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing that rangers have powerful access to burning. But I feel the burning they can apply is a bit more predictable than the on crit proc which makes the on crit proc so strong. Rangers throw torch can be dodged, and nobody is forcing anybody to stand in a flame trap.

But with an engineer, even if you dodge the Blow Torch, there is still the constant threat of burning being applied through a trait, which in a condition build is A LOT of pressure that engis are able to apply, because the ICD on the trait is so low. Probably just a little too low.

Like you said, it isn’t really the crux of the build, but it sure isn’t a weak trait either. If there were more meta/viable builds for engineer, I’m sure this wouldn’t be the only time I would feel the trait needs to be examined and the ICD increased ever so slightly (like, 5s max). That’s only because I’m predicting that in the future, with other rabid amulet setups, it is still going to be a preferred trait, and as somebody mentioned earlier (that I agree with), having a cookie cutter build is the definition of something being imbalanced.

jcbroe.4329:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Kaon.7192:

jcbroe.4329:

Grenix.1576:

Prior Stuff.

More Prior Stuff.

Prior Stuff.

This might just be true. Honestly the crux of the entire build is the absurd amounts of damage from burning. Burning has an EXTREMELY high base damage (8x the base damage of bleeds) and scales very well with condi damage (25 per 100 condi damage)

At 25 stacks of corruption it’s not rare to see 800 burn ticks in this build.

But the oddest part of it all is that it’s not the entirety of the build and we have less access to burning than rangers with a torch offhand and flame trap.

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree about it not being the entirety of the build, but I disagree about having less access than rangers to burning.

I don’t fully disagree, rangers definitely have access to the lowest cooldown burning sources and some of the longest duration burns. But it is more so just a different type of burning application, because rangers do have to take those specific tools with long(ish) cooldowns (long in this case meaning if it were to be cleansed, the burn can’t just be reapplied).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing that rangers have powerful access to burning. But I feel the burning they can apply is a bit more predictable than the on crit proc which makes the on crit proc so strong. Rangers throw torch can be dodged, and nobody is forcing anybody to stand in a flame trap.

But with an engineer, even if you dodge the Blow Torch, there is still the constant threat of burning being applied through a trait, which in a condition build is A LOT of pressure that engis are able to apply, because the ICD on the trait is so low. Probably just a little too low.

Like you said, it isn’t really the crux of the build, but it sure isn’t a weak trait either. If there were more meta/viable builds for engineer, I’m sure this wouldn’t be the only time I would feel the trait needs to be examined and the ICD increased ever so slightly (like, 5s max). That’s only because I’m predicting that in the future, with other rabid amulet setups, it is still going to be a preferred trait, and as somebody mentioned earlier (that I agree with), having a cookie cutter build is the definition of something being imbalanced.

Yea, you’re probably right on the ranger burning thing. Incendiary powder IS very strong and allows engis to apply other condis at the same time which is far more powerful than just applying only burning.

What I meant was that throw torch and flame trap are both very strong and much easier to use than blowtorch is which is our only access to burning outside of incendiary powder.

But as far as cookie cutter builds being imba, I wouldn’t quite say so. The logic in that is flawed. A GS axe/shield warrior is cookie cutter, but it isn’t imbalanced by any measure.