Guild Wars 2

I’m really curious about how many people QQing about terror have stability and stun breakers in their builds, because the former protects against 100% of the damage and the latter completely mitigates the damage.

Corrupt Boon got capped at 5 boons so stability is an even stronger counter than it was before.

quote:
“I’m really curious about how many people QQing about terror have stability and stun breakers in their builds,”

Engi´s dont have stability or viable stunbreakers in a usefull build anymore

Please nerf noobs that call for nerfs because they cant learn the game and kill a class that is balanced.

Yadeniel.9310:

Please nerf noobs that call for nerfs because they cant learn the game and kill a class that is balanced.

Please don’t buff noobs cause they can’t play their class

The new necro meta is a little nuts… Maybe when everyone gets over their FOTM’ness we can have the people that truly understand necros (you know the ones that were good before this patch) get the buffs they need. The ones saying necros don’t need further adjustment are the ones that just picked it up and said “Wow I can kill errbody”. The necros that are diehard understand what has just happened. And it wasn’t good.

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

And I agree that the engi trait “No condi damage under 25%” NOT having an icd is absurd. It is completely OP and such a troll trait. It should be nerfed. To 10% health. No trait should just win a fight single handedly. No necro could beat a rank 1 engi with such a trait.

I don’t know Duke, this build is really squishy, no vigor, no regen, not really a good mobility.

MoGoW.1875:

I don’t know Duke, we’r really squishy with this build, no vigor, no regen, not really a good mobility.

True mog

Maybe us necros are just used to dying really easy and doing nothing so now we feel OP haha :P

Romek.4201:

quote:
“I’m really curious about how many people QQing about terror have stability and stun breakers in their builds,”

Engi´s dont have stability or viable stunbreakers in a usefull build anymore

Yes, they do. Instead of running Elixir R, run Elixir Gun as the toolbelt skill Healing Mist was stealth transformed to a 40 sec cd stunbreaker on top of the regen.

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Necros got clear animations, they’re predictable and their big hit skills got long CD, they’ve got no stealth, they can’t spam grenades on a point applying all possible conditions, stun/daze you to death like engies can, they can’t summon an insta-win elite like mesmer/engies ( moa form-supply crate), they are not close to unkillable like mesmers/engies.. BY MILES

Necros are OP? When did they become OP?
A couple dodges, a stun breaker and burst them down, some I win and some I lose, but the fight is completely fair and fun.

Fighting a necro is nothing like facing a kittening invisible [censored] hitting like a truck, kiting away while invisible ( mesmer-thief) and it’s nothing like facing a condition spammer like engy with their over the top elite which add even more sauce to the meal

- I don’t main necro -

If people complain so hard about something as legitimate as the necro then..sorry can I have stealth removed from game?

Arheundel.6451:

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Necros got clear animations, they’re predictable and their big hit skills got long CD, they’ve got no stealth, they can’t spam grenades on a point applying all possible conditions, stun/daze you to death like engies can, they can’t summon an insta-win elite like mesmer/engies ( moa form-supply crate), they are not close to unkillable like mesmers/engies.. BY MILES

Necros are OP? When did they become OP?
A couple dodges, a stun breaker and burst them down, some I win and some I lose, but the fight is completely fair and fun.

Fighting a necro is nothing like facing a kittening invisible [censored] hitting like a truck, kiting away while invisible ( mesmer-thief) and it’s nothing like facing a condition spammer like engy with their over the top elite which add even more sauce to the meal

- I don’t main necro -

If people complain so hard about something as legitimate as the necro then..sorry can I have stealth removed from game?

I am talking as much about fun as balance though dude.

Who is the easiest person to 1 shot as a necro? Another necro!

This leads to really lame fights. Necro vs necro used to be skill based. Necro itself used to be skill based. Now it isnt. There is no skill to the necro anymore. If the other necro has the advantage and sees you first or has a better team grounding then you will die 100% of the time 100-0 without playing the game before you are condi and fear bombed.

Not being able to play the game isnt fun. There must change it and reduce the time to kill of the necro. But other areas sure. I love the new ds5. But reduce the weakness duration on d5 and reduce the fear on doom so there is less cc.

Arheundel.6451:

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Necros got clear animations, they’re predictable and their big hit skills got long CD, they’ve got no stealth, they can’t spam grenades on a point applying all possible conditions, stun/daze you to death like engies can, they can’t summon an insta-win elite like mesmer/engies ( moa form-supply crate), they are not close to unkillable like mesmers/engies.. BY MILES

Necros are OP? When did they become OP?
A couple dodges, a stun breaker and burst them down, some I win and some I lose, but the fight is completely fair and fun.

Fighting a necro is nothing like facing a kittening invisible [censored] hitting like a truck, kiting away while invisible ( mesmer-thief) and it’s nothing like facing a condition spammer like engy with their over the top elite which add even more sauce to the meal

- I don’t main necro -

If people complain so hard about something as legitimate as the necro then..sorry can I have stealth removed from game?

it’s funny how people complain about stealth even in a topic regarding Necros..

I agree with Xeph, Necro is a bit over the top at the moment, I think Arena Net will fix it very soon, I just hope they won’t screw the class totally again.
I don’t main a Necro but I am glad to see this class in tPvP again and my team composition got 1 Necro now, so fix it but don’t make it underdog again

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Much respect for you Xeph but I’m curious as to what you think they bring now that they didn’t bring before? I will be the first to admit that if a necro traits into burning that they have the capacity to do a lot more damage. My counter to this is that a necro traited for burning has no choice but to be glass due to the trait allocations. Necros disappeared from tournies for quite some time because they were so easily focused down by other teams. A necro who is focused is a dead necro. That brings us to terror. Terror has not changed. Other than the spectral wall utility terror necro’s are the same as they were pre patch. We got some very minor adjustments to life force generation on weapons (we’re talking 1% here). Terror necro’s and well bomber hybrids were the two types of necros you saw in tournies pre-patch (there weren’t many of them though). A terror necro has a bit more survivability due to better life force generation but are still susceptible to focus fire and CC.

Necro survivability hasn’t changed very much at all. Spectral skills working in DS is a nice boost but they don’t overcome focus fire or provide stability etc. The glaring weaknesses of the necro in tourny play are still the same as they have ever been. Why is it suddenly that people feel like that can’t be countered now?

I dont understand why its fine for teams to stack eles, mesmers and engies, but necros get a buff and all of a sudden meta is broken when you see 2 in a tournament. Necros took back their role as condition masters, which was stolen by the HGH engie a while back. It IS a little on the overpowered side (so has been the mesmer since release, people have just had to learn to counter them). I just hope Anet doesnt nerf us to the ground after a week and we’re back to being lesser engies with no access to burning (condi burst)

Nemiros.3590:

I dont understand why its fine for teams to stack eles, mesmers and engies, but necros get a buff and all of a sudden meta is broken when you see 2 in a tournament. Necros took back their role as condition masters, which was stolen by the HGH engie a while back. It IS a little on the overpowered side (so has been the mesmer since release, people have just had to learn to counter them). I just hope Anet doesnt nerf us to the ground after a week and we’re back to being lesser engies with no access to burning (condi burst)

This.
Mesmers, Eles and Engis were always over-represented in tournaments and they still are over-represented, even after the Necro buff.

Saying that Necro is OP just because it is now worth to have in a team for his support makes no sense at all to me.

Necros have no stability, no vigor(which means only two dodges), no invulnerability, and condi necros have very poor life force generation, so you pretty much use it only if you need to interrupt a heal, and add torment.

No, necros with burning can’t get 100% fear duration along with terror, because it got moved to master trait, and you can’t afford to lose greater marks, because staff is literally useless without it.

We are still very squishy and vulnerable to cc, so if we get focused down, it’s quite hard to live long enough to do something, so good positioning is absolutely a must.

Weakness got buffed, and it’s reducing damage by a large margin, just like I said it will, and everybody went screaming on me.

Our fear duration is pretty much lowered compared to what it used to be, if we take burning. If we don’t, our damage gets lowered by a large margin, and we become quite useless when it comes to damage output(compared to other classes).

Corrupt boon got nerfed, Signet got nerfed, so they are too unreliable now, and a lot(if not most) of the necros just removed them from their utility bar, replacing them either with Well of Corruption(which you can always get out of), or Spectral Wall(or even Spectral armor). Our damage got buffed, but our survivability hasn’t changed much, so we are like the squishiest squish of all the classes, because we have no damage mitigation besides weakness(slow life force generation means you won’t be able to use ds as a damage mitigation most of the times).

Xeph, every team is also running a mesmer and a guardian. Does that mean those professions are OP too? I’m sorry, but that kind of logic is flawed.

I’m quite surprised that even experienced players got into the “nerf necros train”, even though they haven’t even waited for meta to stabilize. Nobody knows how to play against necros, because nobody had a chance to play against them often enough to know what they are capable of.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Arheundel.6451:

Xeph.4513:

Sadly I do agree, necro’s at the moment are very overtop and the testament to this is the fact that every team has taken it upon themselves to run a necro.
I know certain people believe that this is just a temporary thing, but fact is necro damage and utility is insane at the moment that they by far outclass all the other professions.

A lot of people have chosen to compare necro to the old hgh engie, but to tbh there is no real comparison necro’s are far superior in very single way, the cc poison and damage reduction through weakness, that they offer a team is indispensable.

Please don’t deceive yourselves by saying that necro isn’t over the top, fact is the meta will be dominated by necro’s and the more time you give it the more people will optimise their role and understand how to play around them.
I believe a lot of more experienced necro players then myself believe the same thing.

Regardless I hope that Arena-net does tone necro’s down, but also keep them viable at the same time, its been great seeing one of the lost professions in tpvp again.

Necros got clear animations, they’re predictable and their big hit skills got long CD, they’ve got no stealth, they can’t spam grenades on a point applying all possible conditions, stun/daze you to death like engies can, they can’t summon an insta-win elite like mesmer/engies ( moa form-supply crate), they are not close to unkillable like mesmers/engies.. BY MILES

Necros are OP? When did they become OP?
A couple dodges, a stun breaker and burst them down, some I win and some I lose, but the fight is completely fair and fun.

Fighting a necro is nothing like facing a kittening invisible [censored] hitting like a truck, kiting away while invisible ( mesmer-thief) and it’s nothing like facing a condition spammer like engy with their over the top elite which add even more sauce to the meal

- I don’t main necro -

If people complain so hard about something as legitimate as the necro then..sorry can I have stealth removed from game?

I am talking as much about fun as balance though dude.

Who is the easiest person to 1 shot as a necro? Another necro!

This leads to really lame fights. Necro vs necro used to be skill based. Necro itself used to be skill based. Now it isnt. There is no skill to the necro anymore. If the other necro has the advantage and sees you first or has a better team grounding then you will die 100% of the time 100-0 without playing the game before you are condi and fear bombed.

Not being able to play the game isnt fun. There must change it and reduce the time to kill of the necro. But other areas sure. I love the new ds5. But reduce the weakness duration on d5 and reduce the fear on doom so there is less cc.

Possibly..but necros can’t facetank dmg like engies can and their signets got long CD, I still can’t compare necro to an engy that come on a point and : supply crate-grenade spamm – pistol spamm..bam…your team is gone

Far to early to qq about balance as no one has even adjusted to the new patch & tried to counter diferent builds &/or to the new machanics.

Lordrosicky.5813:

This leads to really lame fights. Necro vs necro used to be skill based. Necro itself used to be skill based. Now it isnt. There is no skill to the necro anymore.

necro alt

Edit: Whoever chain fears the other into nothingness wins

Now imagine necros would have actually kept some of the goodies they had prior to release…oh the screams and cries of agony would make hell freeze all over, haha.

^Lol
Imagine if they gave them a gt teleport..Honestly though i feel necros are doing more consistent damage than my berserkers 30 fresh air ele while mantain good toughness with rabids and 20k hp..while i die to everything.
You all say necros go down easily but you seem to forget that new weakness is almost as strong as protection now and necros have plenty of access of it..and aoe :O.Plus better ds
Dont know..i dont feel very confident to make balance calls BUT I ll say this..
Anet tried to open up new builds by making other options not suck that much and then forced a condie meta that basically restricts you to as much cond removal as possible..effectivelly killing variety once again.Thats how i feel

The meta will just shift back to run double ele/guardian with pure anti condition functions and we’ ll get back those lovely full runes of svanir teams.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Now imagine necros would have actually kept some of the goodies they had prior to release…oh the screams and cries of agony would make hell freeze all over, haha.

Are you implying that the old DS wasn’ t indeed broken ?
Or that signet of the undead breaking stun giving a necro the chanche to cancel the cast than use it again an be immune to stun was a good thing ?

Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.

@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true

@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.

I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .

Seems like nobody know about this
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Melandru
or this
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

Are hard counters to terror build, but no one wants to use those and just prefer to stick to their current setup.

Terror is OP against bad players. Learn to counter necromancers, like necromancers have been learning to counter thieves and mesmers. Don’t expect any nerf soon.

Dhuumfire it’s OK. Necros asked for burning, we got burning. It’s not in Curses (condition damage tree) but in Spite (condi duration tree). So you cannot stack damage and duration for burning, unless you wanna be a glass condi burster. But that’s ok too, if gc mesmers and gc thieves are ok, then gc necros should be allowed too. No nerf required.

Please stop this crying fest. It’s lame to see how mesmers are complaining now. While they have been trolling with stupid OP mechanics since 10 months ago.

I started my game experience in gw2 as necro, they were really strong at the beginning, then they got slowly toned down to almost uselessness, except for corrupt boon and sigent of undead, which was the main reason necro was the first target in a teamfight (and also cause they are terribly easy to focus) so necros were just exploding without being able to do much.

Now…. about condition spamming builds.

It isnt much different on the exploding part, but at least with some good positioning and some team babysitting we can change the result of the fight.
My actual condition build can easily wipe a whole group if they dont consider me, on the other side… the moment they realize they are dropping like flies cause of me, if they manage to reach me i’ll be dead 90%, cause i got no vigor, swiftness, 1 breakstun, no displacement skills, no stealths, no invulnerabilities, no stability.
As i told to my teammates, i’m a condition based galss cannon, i must fight off-points or ill die in matter of pico-second; so its balanced in a 5v5 perspective, there is a trade on high offence for poor longevity.

Terror builds put less condition pressure, but insted they dish out lots of hard cc (fears like candies), where the main source of it is now spectral wall, since its aoe with mid-low cd, but it can be avoided since its a line placed on the ground, so its effect its not a sure success. It is more resistent and has much higher LF regen than pure condition build, but it can be totally negated by a team with stability, ok he can corrupt 1 with CB (maybe… cause now it might skip stability and corrupt something else) but the others wont suffer from his terror, so a guardian can be definitely effective to counter this build.

Power necro…. they got a littel better now, cause of slight improvement of axe, but i didnt see anyone complaining about it so no need to talk about this.

Then about all the complaining on torment being killing everything… lol, torment itself isnt killing anyone, mine tics for 78, my bleed goes for 108, what is killing isnt just torment, its that plus 6+ bleeds, plus poison, plus fear terror, this is what shot u dead.

Xeph.4513:

Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.

@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true

@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.

I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .

I agree with almost everything youre saying. I do believe that most of the community is over exaggerating and this could bring a bigger nerf than needed; Most people dont really know how to fight a necro. They know that when a guardian books hes healing everyone, when a mesmer is using blurred frenzy you cant hit him, etc. This hasnt happened yet to the necromancer, necromancer has just been seen as that class that is slowly aplying bleeds on top of keep and should probably be dealt with when possible before he corrupt boons the guard to death. People dont even know what deathshroud skills do! no one bothered to make a necro to see what theyre doing since they never had a problem with them.
As I said before, necros are a bit on the overpowered side, but we have to let the meta settle a little before we decide just how OP necro is and a reasonable adjustment can be implemented.

Xeph.4513:

Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.

@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true

@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.

I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .

So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.

But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.

Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.

Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.

The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.

But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crash.

They just need to remove epidemic as a utility skill and balance the class without it. I’m tired of this class being thrown into the garbage bin everytime they “balance” (aka sledgehammer nerf like rangers took this patch on all game formats) it because some necro bombed people with an epidemic and they got mad.

I think when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.

HPLT.7132:

Seriously you link buff food in pvp section. Go out of here Mr. Troll.

So what. Why cant he? Stop being so arrogant.

Lordrosicky.5813:

HPLT.7132:

Seriously you link buff food in pvp section. Go out of here Mr. Troll.

So what. Why cant he? Stop being so arrogant.

Not WvW section, sPvP section.

Food is irrelevant in discussions here regarding PvP.

Though I see both of your points.

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Hey, just to answer a few more questions in depth.

@ Kryshade, Necro’s now bring Burning, Torment and the new and improved weakness, these weren’t present previously and bringing that much condition pressure means and condition cover (for their bleeds and burning), has changed the class drastically.
It is true their previous flaw of being an easy to focus target hasn’t changed, but the fact that they can deal so much counter pressure back on the aggressors and ontop of stacking the new weakness condition, means that they are substantially more survivable even though they are glass canons, and most of the time force their target to back off, if not killing it, but you can almost say any class being bursted down apart from guardians will almost always go down. This scenario however isn’t always true

@Krilce, I am not just jumping on the nerf necro’s train, and have always been a very big advocate of necro’s receiving buffs, but when it has become very apparent that necro’s are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
If you also wish to discuss class viability, guardians and mesmers have always been a common choice of most teams, not because they are overpowered, but because of the utility they offer a team guardians can hold a point and sustain versus multiple targets, making it easier for their team mates to make plays around the map; whilst a mesmer offers illusion of life and portal which are hands down some of the best utilities in the game. Take these utilities away from those classes and watch them disappear from competitive play.
Necro on the other hand, offers great utility and massive aoe damage, that would even melt bunker guards; the damage at the moment is over the top and very very hard to counter; if the necro is giving a moderate time frame of free casting the team fight could be over before it has even started.

I am not saying this because I want them to nerf necro into the ground, I think that in its current state necromancer is over the top and could use some toning down .

So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.

But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.

Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.

Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.

The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.

But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crakittenhink when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.

If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.

The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.

If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.

I’m going to chime in here real quick:
I think Necros are ok to deal with when you only have one of them on the table.

But as soon as multiples of them enter the fight, as a player you just don’t have enough stability to deter fear spam, condi removal etc.

It’s also rather unsatisfying to get feared, pop stability, have stability stripped (mesmers, thieves or necros), get feared again, get feared again. All the while having a number of Condis on you.

I think there’s just a breaking point and we found it with necros this patch.

Hey moderators! where are you? come here and do your job: close this troll thread.
Ppl are complaining about something they don’t even know.

To all those cryers out there: roll a necro, try to do all the things you say necros can do. When you realize you are as bad with necro as you are with your current class, you should stop with this nerf bullkitten.

Xeph.4513:

If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.

The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.

If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.

Each time someone talks about Necro condition, I think about Engineers.
They are capable to stack the same amount of conditions as Necros (with the only exception of Torment, easily balanced with the access to Confusion) while also having blocking and some damage mitigation tools Necro does not have access to.

I wonder why Necro is imbalanced to your eyes while Engineer is not, since all you said about Necros can be easily said about Engineer too.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

So when a guardian is the undisputed point holder and the only class with a 30 sec cd stunbreak that also grants group stability and retal, alongside some of the best cc and passive team aoe damage via retal — it is called “team utility”.

But when necro brings aoe weakness and condition pressure, it is not “team utility”.

Guardians and mesmers have been the best of the best at the roles they’ve been used for. The same could be said of elementalists.

Hell, people complain about glass necros having to be focused down as if it is some monstrous requirement, as if letting a staff elementalist hardcast his crap freely on a point wouldn’t be as devastating if nobody focuses them.

The same applies to a d/p thief. I f your team doesn’t focus him, he will gib someone.

But suddenly necros become a threat with only a single viable build (power necros didn’t get any better, every necro still needs to run a staff, and minions are still crap utility) and the meta comes to a crakittenhink when people don’t complain about classes like guardians is because they don’t die directly to them. Support classes rarely get the hate, even if they’re the ones largely responsible for enabling the result. It’s the most obvious classes, the ones doing the killing, that get attention.

If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.

The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.

If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.

And yet every team needs to have a guardian. No other class can fill their role half as competently. No other class can give group stability or lay ground control like they can.

Part of the necro’s instant condition view is that people are getting hit by Epidemic. Epidemic just needs to be changed so it doesn’t double the amount of conditions on someone if a teammate happens to be near him.

Epidemic+ Engineer is a problem. So they need to change how epidemic works or remove it altogether for some other utility.

I really want to run some other weapon than the staff, or a power necro, or a bunker necro, but that just isn’t happening. I’m still made of glass with crappy defensive options and outside a condi build with burning I do no competitive pressure.

The last time I tried power necro with berk or soldier amulets I was hopelessly getting farmed by thieves and warriors and mesmers while trying to get to a point. You drop faster than a prom dress outside rabid conditions build.

sorrow.2364:

Xeph.4513:

If guardians were an unkillable monster, then I would be inclined to agree with you; but as it is right now, guardians fulfil their role of a node holder without being over the top; any two competent dps are able to kill a guardian very easily, by no means is guardian a broken class, its just a fail safe for teams, so that no matter what happens in a match their guardian will always be able to buy them time.

The problem with necro is the amount of conditions they can put up instantly makes team fights trivial; in most instances people are only considering the necro as a single class, but coupled with any power class condition necro’s are unstoppable, I know for a fact there is nothing easier for me to kill then an enemy who the necro has pumped full of conditions and is spam fearing, its just like shooting fish in a barrel, I just target and kill target and kill, and its not by any merit of mine, but solely due to the fact that necro’s can spread these conditions at lightning speed.

If that is viewed as balance by people, then there is some serious self deception going on here.

Each time someone talks about Necro condition, I think about Engineers.
They are capable to stack the same amount of conditions as Necros (with the only exception of Torment, easily balanced with the access to Confusion) while also having blocking and some damage mitigation tools Necro does not have access to.

I wonder why Necro is imbalanced to your eyes while Engineer is not, since all you said about Necros can be easily said about Engineer too.

I wonder about the same thing because again necros can’t facetank dmg like engies

vicious.5683:

Hey moderators! where are you? come here and do your job: close this troll thread.
Ppl are complaining about something they don’t even know.

To all those cryers out there: roll a necro, try to do all the things you say necros can do. When you realize you are as bad with necro as you are with your current class, you should stop with this nerf bullkitten.

I have about 3000 tournies and 2500 on necro. I love necro. It is so fun. But facerolling everyone isn’t fun.

I primarily solo q, and it used to be I would lose hardcore against premades. Even that has changed now. I can solo q and, of course, sometimes we get utterly stomped by premades. And I just die every 5 seconds.

But way more than before, in solo q, I am winning against premades purely because of how op necro is.

Fortunatly there aren’t that many good necros around. People will learn though. Those who always reroll to fotm will pick up on how to play necro after around a month. Then watch out.

What about this Epidemic only spreads the conditions from the necromancer not all the conditions on the target if it already doesn’t do this. Nothing as really changed about fear thought it got a .5 second increase and spectral wall got fear. It is legitly 3 days after the patch can we wait a little bit before we discuss balance.

Engineers defensive capabilites were nerfed if they were not played as bunker and you could never facetank as an offensive engi.

HGH engis are dead (were fading away with elixir s nerf). With the nerfs to elixir r and s HGH is impractical. Even regular condi engis are having a hard time with the elixir r nerf.

Lordrosicky.5813:

vicious.5683:

Hey moderators! where are you? come here and do your job: close this troll thread.
Ppl are complaining about something they don’t even know.

To all those cryers out there: roll a necro, try to do all the things you say necros can do. When you realize you are as bad with necro as you are with your current class, you should stop with this nerf bullkitten.

I have about 3000 tournies and 2500 on necro. I love necro. It is so fun. But facerolling everyone isn’t fun.

I primarily solo q, and it used to be I would lose hardcore against premades. Even that has changed now. I can solo q and, of course, sometimes we get utterly stomped by premades. And I just die every 5 seconds.

But way more than before, in solo q, I am winning against premades purely because of how op necro is.

Fortunatly there aren’t that many good necros around. People will learn though. Those who always reroll to fotm will pick up on how to play necro after around a month. Then watch out.

what god-like build are you using to take credit for a Team win?

what make necromancers so OP? Spectral wall? a line skill on the ground that only work if you opponent is so dumb to walk through it several times?

vicious.5683:

Lordrosicky.5813:

vicious.5683:

Hey moderators! where are you? come here and do your job: close this troll thread.
Ppl are complaining about something they don’t even know.

To all those cryers out there: roll a necro, try to do all the things you say necros can do. When you realize you are as bad with necro as you are with your current class, you should stop with this nerf bullkitten.

I have about 3000 tournies and 2500 on necro. I love necro. It is so fun. But facerolling everyone isn’t fun.

I primarily solo q, and it used to be I would lose hardcore against premades. Even that has changed now. I can solo q and, of course, sometimes we get utterly stomped by premades. And I just die every 5 seconds.

But way more than before, in solo q, I am winning against premades purely because of how op necro is.

Fortunatly there aren’t that many good necros around. People will learn though. Those who always reroll to fotm will pick up on how to play necro after around a month. Then watch out.

what god-like build are you using to take credit for a Team win?

what make necromancers so OP? Spectral wall? a line skill on the ground that only work if you opponent is so dumb to walk through it several times?

Hardly taking credit. Still get stomped a ton. I still suck a ton. But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

Vuh.1328:

Funny how the necros who did good and actully knew how to play seem unhappy now thanks to the patch..

I’m happy with the patch. The class is more fun.

I think most of the unhappy necromancers just want the class to go in a defensive direction that wouldn’t be viable in the metagame. If the developers had taken that approach, necromancers would have continued to require engineers to do decent damage.

To clarify, I was top 1,000 before the patch and I’m top 1,000 after the patch, even though I only solo or duo queue.

Also, I recommend looking up some of the people crying OP on the leaderboards. One of the necromancers claiming he’s so overpowered in these threads has never been above 70 percentile, as far as I can tell. Another isn’t even ranked. Not exactly the proper experience to make a judgment.

With all that said, I do want Terror, close-range Doom and Spectral Wall nerfed. I would also like to see the developers turn Dhuumfire into three stacks of torment instead of burning.

I think the problem here is that Necros are now good on a 1v1 scenario and people can’t handle it…. yet.

One thing I do agree with though, is that the necros were a bit overbuffed. Spectral wall of fear? Was anyone really complaining about the amount of fears a necro has? The change is cool but a bit overkill. I would have thought more places to put torment would have been the goal rather than fear.

The last thing is burning. This class just got a new condition and a bunch of ways to apply fear and then throw burning on top of that….crazy damage. I think if Anet was going to add burning, the extra fears shouldn’t have been added to the equation. It just makes things a lot harder.

Lordrosicky.5813:

vicious.5683:

Lordrosicky.5813:

vicious.5683:

Hey moderators! where are you? come here and do your job: close this troll thread.
Ppl are complaining about something they don’t even know.

To all those cryers out there: roll a necro, try to do all the things you say necros can do. When you realize you are as bad with necro as you are with your current class, you should stop with this nerf bullkitten.

I have about 3000 tournies and 2500 on necro. I love necro. It is so fun. But facerolling everyone isn’t fun.

I primarily solo q, and it used to be I would lose hardcore against premades. Even that has changed now. I can solo q and, of course, sometimes we get utterly stomped by premades. And I just die every 5 seconds.

But way more than before, in solo q, I am winning against premades purely because of how op necro is.

Fortunatly there aren’t that many good necros around. People will learn though. Those who always reroll to fotm will pick up on how to play necro after around a month. Then watch out.

what god-like build are you using to take credit for a Team win?

what make necromancers so OP? Spectral wall? a line skill on the ground that only work if you opponent is so dumb to walk through it several times?

Hardly taking credit. Still get stomped a ton. I still suck a ton. But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

Do you know why we can contribute much better in soloQ now ? cause ppl arent still used to consider necros as a real threat, so we have enough time to wipe them before they come hunting us, and if u are running my same build you know we are dead at that time, unless we have a good team protecting us. But actually this seems fine to me… maybe, they could tone down a little those crit-procing conditions, like dhumfire, could be at 80% instead of 100%, and same for weakness, could be at 80%.

I’m running a 30/30/10 build, with rabid amulet, and atm my first hit (if critical) procs around 4 conditions (scepter skill 2 = cripple, 2-3 bleeds, burning and weakness). Yet to achieve something like this, i’m sacrificing ALL to max conditions output; thats like an engi running double pistol, grenades, elixir gun and flamethrower o.0

As much as I love my necro (before and after the patch) what we were given was entirely too much.

My main thing is fear, this game has a lot of CC but it’s in small doses, but now it’s very possible to chain fears for nearly 10 seconds and if they don’t have a stun break up (most are on fairly long CDs) they are probably going to die. First of all, the increased duration at <600 range for Doom was not needed a whole half a second makes the fear just that much longer when condi duration and stun duration are taken into the calculation. I’d just remove that additional duration all together.

Spectral wall is fine because it’s avoidable and short duration but what isn’t fine is how hard it is to see sometimes. It really has almost no difference between the other walls (Green smoke instead of blue or purple) and in a team fight it’s nearly impossible to spot. If it was made taller and more ominous looking it would stand out in fights and people would know to avoid it unless they were being feared into it.

Burning is fine, it’s hard to access for condition builds so it forces them to give up some valuable things (Like survivability and longer fear duration).

Axe is still awful and hence power builds are still relatively weak. We are still very vulnerable to CC (Necro 1v1s end up being decided by who gets hit by a fear train first) so I feel like a few minor adjustments to fear and we will be on track. I also think that the changes have caused a minor flurry of everyone wanting to try necro so there’s some leveling out that’ll happen once everyone goes back to playing their normal classes.

Lopez.7369:

With all that said, I do want Terror, close-range Doom and Spectral Wall nerfed. I would also like to see the developers turn Dhuumfire into three stacks of torment instead of burning.

Torment instead of dhumfire wont make any sense, since dhumfire is on power line. burning was put there for the same reason engi got burning on power line too and same reason guardians use burning in a dps spec, cause its a condition that has high base damage even without condition damage, so can be good for power builds too cause it increase dps a little.
In my power necro infact i’m running dhumfire instead of close to death now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

It’s easier ’cause necros were under par.
Now necros can contribute as effectively as other classes like mesmers, guardians and eles, thieves, etc.

Necros now can (not in a single build):
-put as much condi pressure as engies.
-burst as much fast as thieves with same survivability
-do as much AoE damage as mesmers

Necros have better Fears than anyone else, but this is natural. We were going to be the only class with fear in the beginning.

Remember necros have the longest casting times. What are ppl doing while necro is casting all their spells?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Hardly taking credit. Still get stomped a ton. I still suck a ton. But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

Be aware that part of this is the current map in rotation too. Temple is and has been a strong map for Necro in particular since introduction. I’ll bet that you aren’t going to hard carry matches on Foefire or Khylo the same way (although Neco might be able to solo LordGank a whole base in under 60s now).

Big balance patches shake things up. The early returns suggest that there may have been an over buff, but Necromancer probably had the most and most impactful changes of any class and it is going to force a major shift in the meta. This won’t happen in the first 72 hours, especially with such a small tPvP population. Give it a couple weeks and we’ll see where it lands.

vicious.5683:

Lordrosicky.5813:

But all I am saying it is a lot easier to contribute in solo q since the patch. Too easy perhaps.

It’s easier ’cause necros were under par.
Now necros can contribute as effectively as other classes like mesmers, guardians and eles, thieves, etc.

Necros now can (not in a single build):
-put as much condi pressure as engies.
-burst as much fast as thieves with same survivability
-do as much AoE damage as mesmers

Necros have better Fears than anyone else, but this is natural. We were going to be the only class with fear in the beginning.

Remember necros have the longest casting times. What are ppl doing while necro is casting all their spells?

Running in fear from the rest necros in enemy team