Guild Wars 2

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

If the viability of several builds of a class depends on ONE or TWO traits, then something is completely wrong with this class and it should be reworked.

Exactly.

koolmutt.9827:

I don’t know why so many people have this class vs class mentality; this isn’t about the thieves arguing with mesmers arguing with rangers etc etc for each to get their profession a step above the others.. this is about all of us (who probably have alts and play each of the other classes) collectively trying to voice our opinion on rational changes instead of a broken change for a broken problem (in this case 1v1 spec phant build).

We all strive for class balance and diverse builds to use that could all be potentially viable. The problem with this change was instead of nerfing the 1v1 phant spec, they nerfed the whole mesmer class as a whole. We all want viable specs for our class, and we collectively agree when something is broken; in this case mesmers will be the first to tell you that the 1v1 phant spec was broken, but the way a-net went about dealing with this completely destroyed the possibility of using other specs. Creating a change that promotes majority of mesmers to be shatter spec, and a small few to be phant spec, and nothing else viable for high end PVP kills build diversity.

Address the specific build when it’s broken, don’t punish the whole class for it.

Having played a mesmer for over 200+ hrs (most of which is tpvp) I can tell you two traits that are just too darn powerful to be where they were.

1 = Illusionists Celerity

Let me describe this trait for the players who do not know much about mesmers. This single 5 point minor trait reduces illusion summoning skills by 20%. This works for ALL weapons and ALL utilities. I would say this is one of (if not the top) strongest traits of the game and should definitely deserve to be in the GM area.

The only build that needs illusions up as fast as possible are shattters and that is what this trait does. If you want the 20% reduction in skills, spec for the weapon traits and not a single one which gives you 20% across the board. For warriors this would be like having a single trait reducing cd of all stances/shouts for example.

2 = Deceptive Evasion

Another extremely powerful trait that works as a “no brainer” for all builds. Creating clones on dodge is not OP but this trait having no internal cooldown and being in the Master line definitely makes it strong. With access to 100% vigor and energy sigils, you can have a single mesmer generating 1-2 clones per 5 sec combining this trait with weapon skills. Good players will see through the mess but its no easy task with an army against you. The very reason shatters are beaten by better skilled players is because of illusions being shattered and not causing a chaotic mess.

With the exception of these two traits I would say that Mesmers are by no means overpowered and actually have a lot of bugs that need fixing.

Well with one trait “fixed”, I just hope the bugs are also addressed soon (izerker and bounce bug in particular)

Well i wouldn’t say deceptive evasion is op. It strong in a sense it play with your eyes and mind and it annoying to deal with but it needed for shatter spec to work. Illusion without the extra health trait and signet illusion and phantasm dies to quick, deceptive evasion makes up for it. It also needed for the attrition spec to gradually wears your down with condition. Most profession have some strong 1v1 spec, that range for strong heals to major evades spam or dodge and mesmer’s have 1 that is condition on clones death, but its not a really strong build just annoying.

So in short i think deceptive evasion is more of a l2p issue to counter it, it does a lot of annoyance but who gonna make it easy if u want to beat them.

Edit: Dunno if u knew, clones summon through deceptive evasion have almost no dmg except if traits in someways that is condition on death or bleed on crit(this is only good on the gs clones).

Deceptive evasion is fine.

My only problem with Deceptive Evasion is why it wasn’t a Master or Grandmaster trait in the line that actually decreases shatter cooldown. Couldn’t they have made some other type of build for Mesmer’s to use and take advantage of crit damage?

I mention this in another thread. But the reason Illusions Celerity and Deceptive Evasions have become a Mesmer stables is simply because of our mechanic.

We need illusions to fuel the shatter mechanic. No Illusions, No mechanic at all! The MORE illusions, the MORE powerful our shatters. This is how the Mesmer was designed.

So why wouldn’t EVERY Mesmer build around traits that speeds illusion generation.

I’m not saying its right or wrong, I’m just saying that is why 90% of Mesmer Builds are “Shatter” builds. Deceptive Evasions, Illusion Celerity, Illusionary Persona make EVERY shatter mechanic BETTER/FASTER.

Demon.5082:

Having played a mesmer for over 200+ hrs (most of which is tpvp) I can tell you two traits that are just too darn powerful to be where they were.

1 = Illusionists Celerity

Let me describe this trait for the players who do not know much about mesmers. This single 5 point minor trait reduces illusion summoning skills by 20%. This works for ALL weapons and ALL utilities. I would say this is one of (if not the top) strongest traits of the game and should definitely deserve to be in the GM area.

The only build that needs illusions up as fast as possible are shattters and that is what this trait does. If you want the 20% reduction in skills, spec for the weapon traits and not a single one which gives you 20% across the board. For warriors this would be like having a single trait reducing cd of all stances/shouts for example.

2 = Deceptive Evasion

Another extremely powerful trait that works as a “no brainer” for all builds. Creating clones on dodge is not OP but this trait having no internal cooldown and being in the Master line definitely makes it strong. With access to 100% vigor and energy sigils, you can have a single mesmer generating 1-2 clones per 5 sec combining this trait with weapon skills. Good players will see through the mess but its no easy task with an army against you. The very reason shatters are beaten by better skilled players is because of illusions being shattered and not causing a chaotic mess.

With the exception of these two traits I would say that Mesmers are by no means overpowered and actually have a lot of bugs that need fixing.

exactly this is what is wrong with mesmer, im saying it for a long time over and over…

Demon.5082:

Having played a mesmer for over 200+ hrs (most of which is tpvp) I can tell you two traits that are just too darn powerful to be where they were.

1 = Illusionists Celerity

Let me describe this trait for the players who do not know much about mesmers. This single 5 point minor trait reduces illusion summoning skills by 20%. This works for ALL weapons and ALL utilities. I would say this is one of (if not the top) strongest traits of the game and should definitely deserve to be in the GM area.

The only build that needs illusions up as fast as possible are shattters and that is what this trait does. If you want the 20% reduction in skills, spec for the weapon traits and not a single one which gives you 20% across the board. For warriors this would be like having a single trait reducing cd of all stances/shouts for example.

2 = Deceptive Evasion

Another extremely powerful trait that works as a “no brainer” for all builds. Creating clones on dodge is not OP but this trait having no internal cooldown and being in the Master line definitely makes it strong. With access to 100% vigor and energy sigils, you can have a single mesmer generating 1-2 clones per 5 sec combining this trait with weapon skills. Good players will see through the mess but its no easy task with an army against you. The very reason shatters are beaten by better skilled players is because of illusions being shattered and not causing a chaotic mess.

With the exception of these two traits I would say that Mesmers are by no means overpowered and actually have a lot of bugs that need fixing.

exactly this is what is wrong with mesmer, im saying it for a long time over and over…

Another thing… why do clones have to be so useless outside of being shatter bait, and then make it so hard to get more clones without using traits like Deceptive Evasion?

Wow, I cannot believe the amount of people here still believing that Mesmer’s will be OP.

What’s next ?
“NERF BLURRED FRENZY HURR DURR”
“NERF DISTORTION HURR DURR”
“NERF MIND WRACK ZOMG!”

Then it will eventually come to this
“NERF MANTRAS LOL, THEY CAN PRECAST IT!”

Have you realized that Mesmer’s we’re nerfed almost every single patch? The only time I recall good buff was the 3 Mights / illusion shattered, and that was reverted back.

And you do realize the “OP” mesmers killing you are the ones that have Cookie Cutter builds? Just like the same Guardian has a bunker build, or the same Thief has that instakill build.

LumAnth.5124:

Have you realized that Mesmer’s we’re nerfed almost every single patch? The only time I recall good buff was the 3 Mights / illusion shattered, and that was reverted back.

That was not a “good” buff. :P It was a broken change, and it was clear the moment it hit the patch notes. That change came at the same time a similar one came to elementalist’s might stacking trait too. The elementalist’s have gotten twice the might duration (5s to 10s) while the mesmers have gotten twice the might duration AND three times the stacking, in a trait that could already apply 3 stacks at once. That lead to a huge 9 stacks of might by doing something as simple as pressing a shatter skill once. It was clearly a mistake. :P That being said, it was never reverted back. It used to last 5s, it now lasts 10s. Only the number of stacks were reverted, not the entire trait’s functionality.

Phantasm/illusion recast nerfed.
Retalliation nerfed.
Blurred frenzy nerfed.
Signet of illusions nerfed.

RIP phantasm mesmers indeed.

thankyou for whining. never seen a whine post from mez in a some time now. put smile on face. goodjob anet and thankyou.

they didn’t really leave anything else to be nerfed after today’s patch. thank you arena net, thank you for making all the hours and effort I spent on my mesmer worthless. suck me.

XRay.1920:

they didn’t really leave anything else to be nerfed after today’s patch.

Nah, it’s Mesmer.

You know, maybe is just my idea, but spvpers (aka: who makes balance notes in this game for everybody) seems to have grown up a visceral hate for mes, regardless of objective opinions.
Just look at reactions around.
Or when a thread pops up : “Hey Anet, our class have bugs, could you fix them? – Spvpers: He’s right he’s right! Which class are you talking about? – Mesmers – They’re OP no kitten cares of their bugs they can keep them and still being OP so screw you.”

Anet anticipated the QQ for nerf of July and August (BF and some Phant traits/buff), so i expect ppl to need at least 3 days before finding next “Nerf Mes Plox” skill/trait.

XRay.1920:

they didn’t really leave anything else to be nerfed after today’s patch. thank you arena net, thank you for making all the hours and effort I spent on my mesmer worthless. suck me.

Awww, can’t 2-spam to invincible victory anymore.

Awww…can’t hide anymore behind multiple pets with 4k HP each..

Vena.8436:

XRay.1920:

they didn’t really leave anything else to be nerfed after today’s patch. thank you arena net, thank you for making all the hours and effort I spent on my mesmer worthless. suck me.

Awww, can’t 2-spam to invincible victory anymore.

did you even bother reading the rest of the nerfs before you decided to go full kitten?

XRay.1920:

Vena.8436:

XRay.1920:

they didn’t really leave anything else to be nerfed after today’s patch. thank you arena net, thank you for making all the hours and effort I spent on my mesmer worthless. suck me.

Awww, can’t 2-spam to invincible victory anymore.

did you even bother reading the rest of the nerfs before you decided to go full kitten?

You already know the answer.

I’m all for some discussion, and nerfs were warranted, but stay objective… (not directed at you xray)

yea I know, was a rhetoric question really. I ain’t even upset about the pvp aspect of this that much, more about the huge nerf it is in pve where not every dumbo runs a shatter build. the only reason I bother posting here is cause the geniouses that are our dear developers seem only to read this stupid kitten section.

LOL for anyone who hasn’t read the patch notes yet

Signet of Illusions: Decreased the bonus hit points to clones and phantasms to 50%.
Blurred Frenzy: This is now evasion instead of immunity. This means it will be affected by retaliation. Increased the cooldown to 12 seconds.
Illusionists Celerity: Moved to the Grandmaster Minor trait.

Talk about destroying a viable class in one patch

I play a phantasm mesmer and I’m happy that we got toned down a bit.

Oh my goodness. I was fine with everything up til now, but this is ridiculous. I was fine with moving Illusionary Celerity up to GM trait because we could then get Phantasmal Haste, HOWEVER that trait doesn’t work anymore LOL.

Signet of Illusions effect reduced by 50 %, PLUS Vengeful Images is completely unviable because it disappears within a few seconds after casting, LOL.

And on top of that, also blurred frenzy nerf…. really??

#ibelieveinkarl

I feel for you mesmers, because you’ve seen what they’ve done with the Ranger pets. Our pets are now 100% useless across the board, meaning we’ve been nerfed as hard as you guys.

Praise be to Arenanet for finally making this and BM Ranger 0 skill builds void.

1. Less people running such a silly build in tournament, literally screwing your teammates so you can win silly 1v1s.
2. Less people crying about mesmer being 0skillnoobclass, because they’re losing 1v1s with their bad 1v1 builds in a tournament setting.
3. More build options, thank you anet, I will totally have a ball with these new traits.
It had to be done and I’m glad that Anet went for such a bold solution

(Mesmer here, I for one welcome our new SkillbasedPvP overlords.)

Darnis.4056:

Praise be to Arenanet for finally making this and BM Ranger 0 skill builds void.

1. Less people running such a silly build in tournament, literally screwing your teammates so you can win silly 1v1s.
2. Less people crying about mesmer being 0skillnoobclass, because they’re losing 1v1s with their bad 1v1 builds in a tournament setting.
3. More build options, thank you anet, I will totally have a ball with these new traits.
It had to be done and I’m glad that Anet went for such a bold solution

(Mesmer here, I for one welcome our new SkillbasedPvP overlords.)

I’m glad to at least see people admitting the importance of 1v1s. From an emotional point of view, 1v1s are far more critical than team fights.

other mesmers please take notice of Darnis’s additude instead of QQing.

sorrychief.2563:

other mesmers please take notice of Darnis’s additude instead of QQing.

Other classes, please take notice: if you QQ enough, you can defeat opponents trough forums.

Seriously, stop the trolling.

I had a Mesmer tell me off for fighting a 2v1 against him (in a 5v5 game). Later I found him and got a 1v1 vs him, almost beat him and pop, there’s the card up his sleave, the Phantams, toying with me the whole time he was. Finally I lost, I got killed during my dodge dam lag lol.

Mesmers are the only class I dread fighting in general, much more in a 1v1.

I play ele and I run my own build (S/F selfish aura), the amout of people who have told me off for playing a D/D OP ele when playing the S/F build (because S/F must look like d/d, all those similar skills lol) is unbelievable.

The general consensus on the mesmer forums is that this is the worst patch that has affected mesmers since the start of the game.

Personally I’m going to continue trying to make mesmer competitive but its funny how ridiculous it is to make it viable in high end tournament play when you can just be a terror necro instead now

Very good mesmer balance changes ArenaNet! Keep up the excellent work!!

Darnis.4056:

Praise be to Arenanet for finally making this and BM Ranger 0 skill builds void.

1. Less people running such a silly build in tournament, literally screwing your teammates so you can win silly 1v1s.
2. Less people crying about mesmer being 0skillnoobclass, because they’re losing 1v1s with their bad 1v1 builds in a tournament setting.
3. More build options, thank you anet, I will totally have a ball with these new traits.
It had to be done and I’m glad that Anet went for such a bold solution

(Mesmer here, I for one welcome our new SkillbasedPvP overlords.)

Too bad to do that nerf of the BM, they were stupid enough to nerf ALL RANGER PETS IN ALL FIELDS (PvE, PvP, WvW) instead of just nerfing how much power the Beastmastery Traitline gives the pet. You nerf how much power it gives the pet, you deal with quite a bit of complaining without horribly nerfing the Ranger…but for some stupid reason they chose the nerf the Ranger completely. <_<

I don’t see what the fuss is about. I’ve been playing it today and it seems just as broken as it’s always been. Just a few point changes here and there and I’m back to never losing small scale fights.

Lol I have no sympathy for this.

With the change to signet and clarity, phantasms become something much more valuable instead of just pumping them out for days, and consistently refreshing them. Phantasm build will now actually require some skill to play. No more easy wins. If you want that then back go roll a ranger cuz after this despite then nerfs they are still going to be the new 1v1 god tier and will still require just about as much skill as old phant.

This was a pretty fair nerf for the sake of balance.

i agree with this nerf… 5 points to reduce the cooldown on over 15 skills and potentially make it 40% on certain skills. considering phantasms start cooldown when cast this is highly appropriate. no other class has a trait like this.

Good Job Anet

This happens after every patch. you think it’s a big deal but it isn’t. i promise. in a week you will realize you can do something different, you will build different, it will work, and you will adapt. done.

Heizero.9183:

This happens after every patch. you think it’s a big deal but it isn’t. i promise. in a week you will realize you can do something different, you will build different, it will work, and you will adapt. done.

By the way this comment goes for EVERYONE and EVERY class.

Have not pvp-ed yet but the boost in phantasm hp is amazing in pve. My illusionary zerker has around 8k hp now lol (and he hits for 4k at least now XD )

Most nerfs dont directly hit me cause I play a GS/Staff shatter build so yea..

Still seeing some awesome sauce stuff by my guildie mesmers with the new interupt and stealth trait buffs.

Mesmers are in line and still kicking kitten so take a deep breath, relax and work on a new build :-)

PS: I think the bounce bugs on GS 2 and Staff 1 were fixed as well. /love Anet

I don’t think the majority of ppl who are happy that mesmers are kitten ed realize yet that most mesmers don’t care about the effect of the changes in pvp as much as it is very annoying in pve.

I’m fairy sure that at least 75% of the kittening from the mesmer side could have been prevented if they just separated the skill/trait changes/effects in pve and pvp…

^ try running a dungeon now with phantasms. I think I actually heard Kohler say, “Whatcha gonna do now kitten?” when he snuffed my phantasms in 0.8 seconds.

If u really think about the mesmer changes u all shall realize that the new traits do allow mesmers for build diversity : 3
Honestly Phantasm spec was never amongst my favourites, argaubly it was a strong 1 target demolisher spec but the low phantasm CD allowed no brainer tactics (must press everything on CD, YAY)
With all the traits changes i managed to come up with 2 new tpvp specs, that i have faith in so much, that i would say they are on the level of the shatter build from their own aspect, the role they fulfill.
Even Scepter became viable now…
All in all, despite the seemingly “big” 20% CD reduction loss on clones mesmer is moving to the right direction to my mind : P
New builds will require higher experience to the profession on a master level…

Xerrex would you mind to post them? Wanna test the builds

meh… its still work in progress : D track Visceral Gaming in the future cuz i will use the builds in the team if tehy like it or not : D (but condition spec is viable just sayin )

Heizero.9183:

Heizero.9183:

This happens after every patch. you think it’s a big deal but it isn’t. i promise. in a week you will realize you can do something different, you will build different, it will work, and you will adapt. done.

By the way this comment goes for EVERYONE and EVERY class.

Except for Ranger. Since they nerfed the pets that heavily, they basically nerfed every Ranger build.

Not exactly convinced by the sudden non-viability of phantasm builds – there are a couple of things you seem to be overlooking.

→ Phantasms have more health – signet of illusions even applies immediately, great. This is also likely why vengeful images was nerfed.
→ A whole bunch of other things got buffed and can easily be relevant to your build.
→ You can just not take illusionists celerity. You get a different trait and it even comes with useful stats for your build such as crits or power.

Honestly I just worked around it… I run a mantra/phantasm build where I didn’t have room for all the traits I wanted anyway. Now my phantasms stick around for long enough to do more damage or even get healed, mind stab doesn’t immobilize me, berserker works properly again and I even have phantasmal fury.

Try something new… interrupt builds are pretty obvious, mantras have been coming up, stealth builds should be near invulnerable now, inspiration line shatters can do interesting support, scepter block looks seriously painful and 3 signet builds can really exist and work together. Combine some of the above… see what happens.

Toeofdoom.6152:

Not exactly convinced by the sudden non-viability of phantasm builds – there are a couple of things you seem to be overlooking.

-> Phantasms have more health – signet of illusions even applies immediately, great. This is also likely why vengeful images was nerfed.
-> A whole bunch of other things got buffed and can easily be relevant to your build.
-> You can just not take illusionists celerity. You get a different trait and it even comes with useful stats for your build such as crits or power.

Honestly I just worked around it… I run a mantra/phantasm build where I didn’t have room for all the traits I wanted anyway. Now my phantasms stick around for long enough to do more damage or even get healed, mind stab doesn’t immobilize me, berserker works properly again and I even have phantasmal fury.

Try something new… interrupt builds are pretty obvious, mantras have been coming up, stealth builds should be near invulnerable now, inspiration line shatters can do interesting support, scepter block looks seriously painful and 3 signet builds can really exist and work together. Combine some of the above… see what happens.

In spvp yesterday I fought a stealth specced mesmer with condition bomb clones. He was awesome. He constantly stealthed his clones and had a tanky gear setup so with the boons he gained from his decoy/torch skill he was holding a single point against my warrior and another engi while his clones died quick to our aoes (i run longbow), they swept us with cripples/weakness/vulner etc.

This patch is a great thing for mesmer build diversity, people should accept that and make new builds instead of crying and trying to make the old ones work over and over XD

If you people cannot play a phantasm mesmer properly after the patch, then I honestly feel sorry for those people. Please learn how to play or just reroll already. Phantasm is fine.

Demon.5082:

Toeofdoom.6152:

Not exactly convinced by the sudden non-viability of phantasm builds – there are a couple of things you seem to be overlooking.

-> Phantasms have more health – signet of illusions even applies immediately, great. This is also likely why vengeful images was nerfed.
-> A whole bunch of other things got buffed and can easily be relevant to your build.
-> You can just not take illusionists celerity. You get a different trait and it even comes with useful stats for your build such as crits or power.

Honestly I just worked around it… I run a mantra/phantasm build where I didn’t have room for all the traits I wanted anyway. Now my phantasms stick around for long enough to do more damage or even get healed, mind stab doesn’t immobilize me, berserker works properly again and I even have phantasmal fury.

Try something new… interrupt builds are pretty obvious, mantras have been coming up, stealth builds should be near invulnerable now, inspiration line shatters can do interesting support, scepter block looks seriously painful and 3 signet builds can really exist and work together. Combine some of the above… see what happens.

In spvp yesterday I fought a stealth specced mesmer with condition bomb clones. He was awesome. He constantly stealthed his clones and had a tanky gear setup so with the boons he gained from his decoy/torch skill he was holding a single point against my warrior and another engi while his clones died quick to our aoes (i run longbow), they swept us with cripples/weakness/vulner etc.

This patch is a great thing for mesmer build diversity, people should accept that and make new builds instead of crying and trying to make the old ones work over and over XD

That was probably me :P Except I’m running pistol, not torch.

Phantasms specs got absurd buffs and are one of the strongest specs in the entire game.

Anyone who says otherwise is seriously just talking out their kitten and crying about an incredibly minor change in comparison to the buffs that they just got.