Guild Wars 2

This is at least my take on the upcoming changes to pvp ‘rewards’, my overall point is how people’s progress in pvp up to now is basically being reset and many pve players will in fact get a jump start. To help iterate it, lets follow the path of two players who joined at day 1 with a smile on their face…

Player A joins the game at release, experiences all aspects of the game whilst leveling up to 80 but ultimately decides that they don’t really enjoy the nature of pvp and sticks to playing pve, only rarely dipping their toes into pvp.

Player B joins the game at release, experiences all aspects of the game whilst leveling up to 80 but ultimately decides that they don’t really enjoy the nature of pve and sticks to playing pvp, only rarely dipping their toes into pve.

In the 1.5 years since release, Player A has gained 2 amazing looking legendary items by playing the world events he enjoys and gaining gold and materials through dungeons and wvw, was able to obtain any armour skin he wanted with the same ease as any other player aiming to obtain an armour skin that they wanted, and even his rare ventures into pvp hotjoins with people from his guild have paid off because the skins are very widely obtainable. So even if he has been eyeing up a very high ranked skin, they are now easy for everyone to obtain, regardless of whether your taste favours the high ranked pvp skins or not.

In the 1.5 years since release Player B has had no access to legendary items whatsoever, gained no gold or useful materials for the most part, has had to grind ranks in order to receive certain mediocre skins which were vastly more obtainable through pve means, and even his ventures into pve/wvw with his guild go largely unrewarded as their gear is sub-par and they have very few gold to fuel consumables to even the playing field.

Now lets look forward.

Lets say that at some point in the next few months, perhaps in more than one patch, the following proposed changes from the pvp rewards blogs happen;

#Gear is carried over into both pve and pvp
#Legendary skins become available for pvp use
#Glory is removed as a currency

Player A stands to gain ;

-His Legendary skins in pvp
-Extra sets of gear which is actually of use in pve for different gear setups
-Loses nothing

Player B stands to gain;

-No ‘extra’ sets of gear carrying over as pvp stats are changed through amulets, only one copy of your favourite skin = you are done, extra skins are of no use
-No legendary item carrying over into either pvp/pve for their playing up to this point
-Loses the currency which at one point was their equivalent of gold meaning that even if a pvp grind towards a legendary was introduced, they have to start at square 1

Player A has been reaping the best rewards in the game from playing pve and will then go straight in at the top in terms of pvp rewards after the patch, Player B has been getting shafted from playing pvp in terms of rewards and will be bottom of the barrel post patch.

I’m sorry, but how is it fair, how is it a good move?

I know the devs refer to ‘things they can’t discuss yet’ a lot with pvp, but with the information we have right now, this scenario is how things are going to pan out, a massive slap in the face to pvp players, a massive pat on the back to pve players.

I would love some word from the devs that this isn’t what is going to happen to the people who have stuck with pvp even through the bad times, even through the early months, even through skyhammer, even through hambow.

But being honest, my prediction is that this is exactly what will happen, and there will be no remorse.

All is not vain, just pvp is.

Its quite common for MMOs to provide various,easier ways to gain items/achievements with the progress of the game life spawn.

Those who have PvP’ed since day one have something those who start now wont have anytime soon…. thousands of matches played and quite alot of experience gained.

@azuzephyr.7280
Awsome point of view. That is exactly what I think will happen too. I just hold my thoughts for now and hope I am wrong.

azuzephyr.7280:

I know the devs refer to ‘things they can’t discuss yet’ a lot with pvp, but with the information we have right now, this scenario is how things are going to pan out, a m21assive slap in the face to pvp players, a massive pat on the back to pve players.

This is the problem I am having right now. I am raging inside because nobody seems to understand that the PvPer’s look like they are getting screwed over right now. Back in December everything was looking good, we could get levels for glory, custom arena kits, armor kits, tokens YOU NAME IT. Now?!
Now the only information we have, after a SECOND “warning” on the matter, is that it is being taken out and you should spend it all, nothing else. Just speculation.
I got in a fued in Lions Arch because somebody said they are adding gold to pvp in replacement of the glory. That pisces me off. We already get silver from tournament matches. To say your taking out glory to “add” some gold to the rewards… we all know ANet. the 15s that we get now will become 25s per win, and all other rewards gone.

Does that seem worth it? Not to me, so thanks a lot ANet. Change something that was so nice to something that you know will kitten people off. Better to be lazy than do something right though, am I right?

Pve heroes/farmers getting more than old pvp players…nothing new, i already lost all hopes on this point ages ago..

hopefully, they will implement those unique to pvp skins soon and make them nice.

Pixels.6532:

hopefully, they will implement those unique to pvp skins soon and make them nice.

…anytime in 2015..

Archaon.6245:

Pixels.6532:

hopefully, they will implement those unique to pvp skins soon and make them nice.

…anytime in 2015..

lol… sadly, you’re probably right. And if will probably just be the starter armor with flame effects… ;o)

I don’t think many people fully understand that this is not a benefit in any way to pvp players, as OP explained. If we are objective and cynical about the situation, the conclusion is: pvp rewards are being reset to allow $$$ → gems → items in pvp.

If we are slightly less cynical we can say this will facilitate pve → pvp player flow, as well as pvp → pve player flow. There is nothing wrong with this in principle.

What about people that are high-ranked dedicated pvp players? Now their hard-earned skins that used to show prestige can be bought with gold… So they have gained, what, exactly, from all this? The ability to visit pve with skins other players have had for a year now?

This would be a real issue if anything related to rewards in this game would actually make any sense. Expecting sPvP to be different would be extremely naive.

There are huge disparities on how profitable different activities are.

It’s not like each of them offers its own themed skins (which would be great for a game with “horizontal” progresion). Rewards are shared, tradeable and RNG driven for the most part and activities can only be measured by their “gold”/time income ratio, which happen to differ A LOT.

We know those differences aren’t skill/challenge driven for the most part.
Comparisons between high level fractals and some easy dungeons (like CoF1) are recurring over these forums. Loot realted rants about the recently released world bosses are fairly common too.
In PvP, hotjoin has been for months the superior choice for AP completion and both rank and glory farming (not even talking about Skyhammer farm servers or Birthday Booster issues, which ANet never seemed truly worried about btw).
Even after the last patch, which brought some deserved benefit to torunament play, rewards are still mainly a matter of grind.

We might think they are set up to lead the playerbase to some content devs could want to bring attention over, but this idea vanishes too once we notice how unpopular the new TA Aetherpath is or how wandering some mid level map mining random nodes is way more profitable than actually playing (exploring, completing DEs and JPs, and the like) it.

I wish we could have some video (like those about map design or gummy wurms) analyzing the current rewards across the game because, honestly, I can’t figure any reasoning behind them. I don’t think anybody does.

They are trying to remove the problem that you highlighted though.

I understand their reasoning, I believe they are not telling us everything when it comes to rank based rewards, which will be the major thing. Someone who is rank 60 should get something a rank 10 doesnt, regardless of their previous PvE standpoint.

Also, the reward is the skill you learn from playing, too.

Hymnosi.5928:

Also, the reward is the skill you learn from playing, too.

Same is true for PvE players, right? They just play to become good. So why we don’t just remove gold from the game entirely? You dont need it.

Tranassa.4968:

Hymnosi.5928:

Also, the reward is the skill you learn from playing, too.

Same is true for PvE players, right? They just play to become good. So why we don’t just remove gold from the game entirely? You dont need it.

kitten kitten exchange of goods and services.

you’ve gone full kitten.

Your post is unreadable.

Plz keep in mind, that you do not need money to exchange goods and services!

While I agree that time spent playing in pvp is a reward in itself and that you are intangibly rewarded with ‘the experience’ of playing. PVE players get both the reward of playing and amazing exclusive skins, and tons of gold and are going to be more favored in the upcoming rewards patch.

Pixels.6532:

Archaon.6245:

Pixels.6532:

hopefully, they will implement those unique to pvp skins soon and make them nice.

…anytime in 2015..

lol… sadly, you’re probably right. And if will probably just be the starter armor with flame effects… ;o)

effects? Oh no man…if you want flames and fancy effects you must pay gems for sure, a little glowing is the best you can hope to get for a pvp-only-not shoppable reward, in 2015 ofc xD

Considering we were universally blessed with skins that pve players have had easy access to for over a year, then yes, glowy parts might be setting your sights a little high.

I still hope for exclusive rewards coming from the league system and its ladder and seasons.
If not…well…a slap to the face, especially for Player B with thousands of hours.

Great post. I dont think it will be taken into consideration though(

They focus more on the pve, since that is the bigger and “easier controlable sheep” population, which is happy with anything.

+theyre all wariors anyway, so they wont be disapointed in pvp also.

It’s not like ANet doesnt understand.
It’s more like ANet doesnt give a kitten.

Personally, I’m not surprised that the perspective of any new PvP incentives, whether that be the brand new reward overhaul coming in, or the ready-up weekend bonuses are tailored to bringing non-PvP players into the system.

Of course you would tailor an incentive campaign to the proper demographic.. the goal is to create incentive for a growing PvP population. Where do you think these people are going to be coming from?

Yes, this is a huge improvement for PvE/WvW folks. Yes, it’s assumed that PvE skins would carry over and PvP progression will be ‘reset’ in a way. This is breaking down a massively huge barrier for PvE/WvW folks to playing PvP.

Why can’t anyone understand that breaking down barriers to entry is a great start to improving the QOL of PvP players too? Stop being so ‘them vs. us’ and just realize that PvP isn’t private property in which a bunch of foreigners are getting day passes for.

In the new progression system, all the PvP players that have played for 1.5 years will be Shark/Phoenix rank, with nearly all access to any skins that will carry over to the new system. Nobody can know how advantaged the PvP players will be until the new system drops. What if it’s extremely hard to get skins?

All your remarks about PvPers being such peasants who have no gold, and were unable to play WvW/PvE because they had no money for food/oil.. wow. I received hundreds upon hundreds of gold from Wintersday gifts from my glory, so.. I think you missed the boat on a lot of things. Now I’m making good gold for just playing PvP… and I pretty much want for nothing. I have 9 chars lvl80 from Glory alone.. all geared in exotics from Glory to Gold conversion (Wintersday Gifts)

So, I think you’re just doin’ it wrong.

You should add to your tearfully written list of what PvPers get for playing from day 1, with a smile on their face:

• Every Profession in PvE Lvl80 from Tomes of Knowledge
• Every Profession in PvE geared in Exotics from Wintersday Gifts
• Cash per match completed. To maintain the huge cash reserve from Wintersday Gifts.

Lol who cares it’s just trivial cosmetics.
You like to PvP or play dress-up? Fortunately dress-up is still available. The whole point of the thing is to bring in more players so player B has more than 10 people to play with. Which should be a good thing for him since player B presumably as a PvP player likes having more competition.

Actually nobody has objected to removing barriers to pvp, what we’re asking for is recognition for time spent in pvp in the same way that time spent in pve is rewarded. If they removed gold tomorrow and let people buy high level fractal/legendary skins for glory the boards would explode.

Guess im just out of touch with GW2’s playerbase.
Cosmetics aren’t that big a deal.

Chaith.8256:

In the new progression system, all the PvP players that have played for 1.5 years will be Shark/Phoenix rank, with nearly all access to any skins that will carry over to the new system.

Uhm.
Are you sure about that?
I havent seen any phoenix rank yet and shark ranks also seem to be pretty rare.
And probably the ONLY skin which might actually be easier to get via sPvP than via PvE might be the Orr stuff.

There are weapons you can buy in PvE for ~ 1k Karma, while you need to be rank 50-60 for buying them in PvP.

In addition, there was never any kind of reward for the time played before the update which brought the tomes etc.

In addition, there’s a huge number of skins which are only available in PvE.
So how is the Skin transfer of those skins ment to happen?

It s less the problem that they break down the barrier, it is more like they seem to do it only in one direction.

Arenanet doesn’t give a kitten. They are completely aware ofthe situation and saw multiple threads (the retrospective rank rewards are a similiar situation) but they just dont give a kitten.

Worst part for me is the dishonesty about it and kind of baiting the players into spvp with “it will become better, stay tuned” while releasing patches only every 4 months. PvP is still not a priority at all. Don’t let them tell you anything else.

Chaith.8256:

Personally, I’m not surprised that the perspective of any new PvP incentives, whether that be the brand new reward overhaul coming in, or the ready-up weekend bonuses are tailored to bringing non-PvP players into the system.

Of course you would tailor an incentive campaign to the proper demographic.. the goal is to create incentive for a growing PvP population. Where do you think these people are going to be coming from?

Yes, this is a huge improvement for PvE/WvW folks. Yes, it’s assumed that PvE skins would carry over and PvP progression will be ‘reset’ in a way. This is breaking down a massively huge barrier for PvE/WvW folks to playing PvP.

Why can’t anyone understand that breaking down barriers to entry is a great start to improving the QOL of PvP players too? Stop being so ‘them vs. us’ and just realize that PvP isn’t private property in which a bunch of foreigners are getting day passes for.

In the new progression system, all the PvP players that have played for 1.5 years will be Shark/Phoenix rank, with nearly all access to any skins that will carry over to the new system. Nobody can know how advantaged the PvP players will be until the new system drops. What if it’s extremely hard to get skins?

All your remarks about PvPers being such peasants who have no gold, and were unable to play WvW/PvE because they had no money for food/oil.. wow. I received hundreds upon hundreds of gold from Wintersday gifts from my glory, so.. I think you missed the boat on a lot of things. Now I’m making good gold for just playing PvP… and I pretty much want for nothing. I have 9 chars lvl80 from Glory alone.. all geared in exotics from Glory to Gold conversion (Wintersday Gifts)

So, I think you’re just doin’ it wrong.

You should add to your tearfully written list of what PvPers get for playing from day 1, with a smile on their face:

• Every Profession in PvE Lvl80 from Tomes of Knowledge
• Every Profession in PvE geared in Exotics from Wintersday Gifts
• Cash per match completed. To maintain the huge cash reserve from Wintersday Gifts.

I will preface this by saying that I could be mixing two people up here, so if I’m wrong, let me know and I’ll correct it….but…

Aren’t you one of the people that “took advantage” of the birthday booster bug and ended up with millions of Glory? If so, I’m sure you’ve gotten everything out of PvP that you could ever ask. Some people have played for 1.5 years and have little to show for it and feel slighted by the direction that PvP is going. Currently, there are very few people that have stuck around to play PvP since launch and instead of rewarding those few while AT THE SAME TIME promoting the game to the PvE/WvW crowd, they are instead turning their backs on us, handing out free stuff to them and simultaneously farting in our general direction.

I can’t help but roll my eyes every time someone uses “slap in the face” in a thread that complains about something…

…but I do agree with the basic premise of this post. That being said, even if ANet did want to do something about this, there really isn’t any fix that could really make things right at this point since so many PvP players have burnt through their glory in preparation for it going away already.

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

Dahkeus.8243

I can’t help but roll my eyes every time someone uses “slap in the face” in a thread that complains about something…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

milo.6942:

I don’t think many people fully understand that this is not a benefit in any way to pvp players, as OP explained. If we are objective and cynical about the situation, the conclusion is: pvp rewards are being reset to allow $$$ -> gems -> items in pvp.

the goal of this new change isn’t to 100% benefit PvPers, let’s be honest here the population is so small compared to other aspecs of the game that it is negligable. The goal just like every promotion is to bring in new players. Some PvP players might benefit from it, but the goal is to bring in players from WvW and PvE.

At this stage all we can really do is hope that PvPers don’t lose access to their armor skins, cuz I luv my arah armor. Honestly though there is a real possibility of that. Another possibility is also that they are might use this as an opportunity to bring back the old gw1 style build and customization system.

Dahkeus.8243:

Dahkeus.8243

I can’t help but roll my eyes every time someone uses “slap in the face” in a thread that complains about something…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

It is funny though. Slap in the face is used so commonly that it has almost no meaning. AT this stage NOT using “slap in the face” will actually mean more than using it.

Such an overused word and although it is suppose to invoke emotions all it does is invoke an eye roll.

silvermember.8941:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dahkeus.8243

I can’t help but roll my eyes every time someone uses “slap in the face” in a thread that complains about something…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

It is funny though. Slap in the face is used so commonly that it has almost no meaning. AT this stage NOT using “slap in the face” will actually mean more than using it.

Such an overused word and although it is suppose to invoke emotions all it does is invoke an eye roll.

The whole PvP is such an “eye roll”.
Better now?

i can’t wait to be able to use my pve look in pvp <3 and i am rank 44 so still have only a cat that doesn’t even roar… i am jelly of those with phoenix/shark finisher QQ

what they need to add is karma gain through pvp and some way of getting crafting materials

being able to lv up through pvp was amazing change, ty Anet

i am sure more ppl from wvw would pvp more if it was offering more rewards and pvp in this game desperately needs more players, so overall i like this changes but pvp system definitely needs more…we will see~

Cynz.9437:

i am sure more ppl from wvw would pvp more if it was offering more rewards and pvp in this game desperately needs more players, so overall i like this changes but pvp system definitely needs more…we will see~

Sorry , no chance. Distracting people with shinies only works for a short while. Things like fun gamemodes , good balance , interesting maps and gameplay that rewards skill instead of team comp are the things that keep people playing.
Too bad none of those things exist in pvp.

felivear.1536:

I will preface this by saying that I could be mixing two people up here, so if I’m wrong, let me know and I’ll correct it….but…

Aren’t you one of the people that “took advantage” of the birthday booster bug and ended up with millions of Glory? If so, I’m sure you’ve gotten everything out of PvP that you could ever ask. Some people have played for 1.5 years and have little to show for it and feel slighted by the direction that PvP is going. Currently, there are very few people that have stuck around to play PvP since launch and instead of rewarding those few while AT THE SAME TIME promoting the game to the PvE/WvW crowd, they are instead turning their backs on us, handing out free stuff to them and simultaneously farting in our general direction.

Nope.. I didn’t cash in on Birthday Boosters or Skyhammer Farming, w/e. Mostly because glory was a simply not worth thinking about, much less stockpiling until we got a massive amount of gold, PvE levels, and other asorted free stuff, handed out on Dec. 10th.

How can you keep a straight face when you say we only got farts from Arenanet? I suddenly had like 600g, which turned into double Aetherized Pistol skins, a bunch of cultural/dredge/nightmare PvP gear, all professions lvl80 and geared in exotics, etc. It was pretty much a handout.

Again, I do not PvE, or WvW, except for a brief Legendary crafting stint where I started broke, crafted the Predator, and ended broke.

I had 1,500,000 Glory saved up when Dec. 10th hit from … pretty much never using Glory Boosters, Birthday Boosters, or any kind of artificially altering that. That’s the kind of reserves someone will have who is mid-rank 60’s, even after purchasing 600,000 glory on rank chests on the way up, too.

If you aren’t in the 60’s, rank wise, I don’t know if you are allowed to say you’ve PvPed loyally from the start. To those that still think PvPers get farted on by Anet as you put it, have simply chosen to ignore the Dec.10th vendor, or have squandered 1,000,000+ glory on dye.

Boomstin.3460:

Cynz.9437:

i am sure more ppl from wvw would pvp more if it was offering more rewards and pvp in this game desperately needs more players, so overall i like this changes but pvp system definitely needs more…we will see~

Sorry , no chance. Distracting people with shinies only works for a short while. Things like fun gamemodes , good balance , interesting maps and gameplay that rewards skill instead of team comp are the things that keep people playing.
Too bad none of those things exist in pvp.

Very much agreed, reward swill be a short term fix at best, and one that should have been in at launch.

If people still can’t play their favourite spec because they get hambow’d down in seconds they’ll simply get the shinies and leave as quickly as they entered.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

silvermember.8941:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dahkeus.8243

I can’t help but roll my eyes every time someone uses “slap in the face” in a thread that complains about something…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The whole PvP is a slap in the face

It is funny though. Slap in the face is used so commonly that it has almost no meaning. AT this stage NOT using “slap in the face” will actually mean more than using it.

Such an overused word and although it is suppose to invoke emotions all it does is invoke an eye roll.

The whole PvP is such an “eye roll”.
Better now?

I feel sleepy.

This game can be so backwards sometimes. Playing PVE is a reward in of itself so I don’t even see why pvers need other rewards…

O.O

EverythingEnds.4261:

It’s not like ANet doesnt understand.
It’s more like ANet doesnt give a kitten.

ensoriki.5789:

The whole point of the thing is to bring in more players so player B has more than 10 people to play with.

EverythingEnds.4261:

It s less the problem that they break down the barrier, it is more like they seem to do it only in one direction.

Both good points. PvP fundamentally benefits from more players in a way that PvE doesn’t, however there are very real issues of equal access to content for time invested in the game.

Technically, we don’t know what the new PvP paradigm is going to be like yet but given ArenaNet’s track record, I’d say that being outraged in advance is a perfectly reasonable reaction.

Who cares it’s just aesthetics.

More PvE=more players=more esports

Seems legit

Phaeton.9582:

Who cares it’s just aesthetics.

More PvE=more players=more esports

Seems legit

This game will never be e-sports. E-sports to me means people forming teams and your average pve player has no interest in that. What we will see from all this nonsense is a moderate uptick in pvp participation which will decrease over time as pve players find out it much easier to obtain things through pve and WvWvW and they get tired of being rickrolled by superior players. It’s not even going to work meaningfully the scam they are pulling it will earn them a few short term $$$$$. It’s ok though most people with a brain don’t play this game much or at all any more.

I think this is a huge loss for the PvP community…

I don’t mind being able to carry over skins, but they should add really awesome skins that can only be gained through pvp. This way you could see by the skin the player is using that he’s a PvP veteran or a PvE guy. As it looks now this will only benefit the PvE community…

Geiir.7603:

I think this is a huge loss for the PvP community…

I don’t mind being able to carry over skins, but they should add really awesome skins that can only be gained through pvp. This way you could see by the skin the player is using that he’s a PvP veteran or a PvE guy. As it looks now this will only benefit the PvE community…

isnt that the case the whole time? i just say event-skins