Guild Wars 2

healing signet buff was what made warriors viable, without it you will see warriors as the free kills they once were. also, once rangers and necros get tuned down, you will see a lot more mesmers and eles that will be farming warriors all day again.

Barret.4095:

healing signet buff was what made warriors viable, without it you will see warriors as the free kills they once were. also, once rangers and necros get tuned down, you will see a lot more mesmers and eles that will be farming warriors all day again.

Wrong, its Berserker Stance. This skill would be fair if they got rid of all Warrior stun breaks on the stances so that people ACTUALLY play stances correctly to be effective. Same change needs to happen for all other classes too because there is too much power mitigation in this game.

Also as for heals, healing Surge is fine and is still strong. Problem with Signet is thakittens brainless where as Healing Surge requires plays to be effective.

Honestly, the problem is that the warrior can get a good heal without investing into healing power .

Reduce the starting HS heal to say 300 , but up its benefit from heaping power significantly .

Chokolata.1870:

Honestly, the problem is that the warrior can get a good heal without investing into healing power .

Reduce the starting HS heal to say 300 , but up its benefit from heaping power significantly .

Why would a warrior invest in healing when warriors provide no team support in terms of healing, and have no viable bunker builds?

That is the only point of using a cleric’s amulet: 1) team support through healing, or 2) bunker. If ArenaNet purposefully wants warriors to be g’imped in these areas, then they should keep the warrior’s base heals high and heal scaling low, which is exactly what they’re doing. In this case, ArenaNet’s logic is sound.

apt.9184:

Haha oh well and btw I main warrior since launch and trust me I feel like I am facerolling playing warrior now when I play tpvp with teams. Maybe the balance is going so bad due to the fact that htojoin heros like yourselves want a easier time killing people before you had to play well to succeed unlike now when you can pop zerk stance skull crack hb. I am just saying even tarcis on stream said warrior skillcaps gone down. Many good warriors that I talk to that are not as known say its easy to play and is effective. Ostrich mentioned on his stream couple of times warriors are bit over top. You guys can keep saying the class is not overpowered, but it really is and once spirit rangers and necros are brought out of spotlight everyone will see how OP warrior is and it will be bashed to the floor (which no one wants)

My comments were about healing. I didn’t mention anything about stunlocking. In other threads I have stated I feel chained CC’ing/stunlocking should have diminishing returns. My comments were specifically, If a player invests heavily in healing, they should get heavy healing back. It only makes sense.
P.S I see your above mentioned warriors in spvp all the time. becareful with bantering terms like hotjoin hero..bcause the very heroes you speak of are in hotjoin regularly. We are all in hotjoin regularly mucking round.

zone.1073:

Chokolata.1870:

Honestly, the problem is that the warrior can get a good heal without investing into healing power .

Reduce the starting HS heal to say 300 , but up its benefit from heaping power significantly .

Why would a warrior invest in healing when warriors provide no team support in terms of healing, and have no viable bunker builds?

That is the only point of using a cleric’s amulet: 1) team support through healing, or 2) bunker. If ArenaNet purposefully wants warriors to be g’imped in these areas, then they should keep the warrior’s base heals high and heal scaling low, which is exactly what they’re doing. In this case, ArenaNet’s logic is sound.

Totally agree.

I think people dont need to worry about major warrior changes right now. It seems thief and conditions will be put in line in the next patch and they should be the most reworked. After that we will have 2-3 weeks to see the mesmers and eles como to life again (they are only restrained due to condition meta right now) and hardcounter warriors. Then we will have a good meta. They will probably fix the sigil of para and warrior will be weaker just by doing that.

Amir.1570:

Barret.4095:

healing signet buff was what made warriors viable, without it you will see warriors as the free kills they once were. also, once rangers and necros get tuned down, you will see a lot more mesmers and eles that will be farming warriors all day again.

Wrong, its Berserker Stance. This skill would be fair if they got rid of all Warrior stun breaks on the stances so that people ACTUALLY play stances correctly to be effective. Same change needs to happen for all other classes too because there is too much power mitigation in this game.

Also as for heals, healing Surge is fine and is still strong. Problem with Signet is thakittens brainless where as Healing Surge requires plays to be effective.

when zerker stance got buffed warriors were still a joke, one of the biggest problem was that our heals were so underwhelming. you can a stance build without healing sig and you’ll notice that you can’t sustain yourself for too long and would drop a lot faster.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

apt.9184:

Haha oh well and btw I main warrior since launch and trust me I feel like I am facerolling playing warrior now when I play tpvp with teams. Maybe the balance is going so bad due to the fact that htojoin heros like yourselves want a easier time killing people before you had to play well to succeed unlike now when you can pop zerk stance skull crack hb. I am just saying even tarcis on stream said warrior skillcaps gone down. Many good warriors that I talk to that are not as known say its easy to play and is effective. Ostrich mentioned on his stream couple of times warriors are bit over top. You guys can keep saying the class is not overpowered, but it really is and once spirit rangers and necros are brought out of spotlight everyone will see how OP warrior is and it will be bashed to the floor (which no one wants)

My comments were about healing. I didn’t mention anything about stunlocking. In other threads I have stated I feel chained CC’ing/stunlocking should have diminishing returns. My comments were specifically, If a player invests heavily in healing, they should get heavy healing back. It only makes sense.
P.S I see your above mentioned warriors in spvp all the time. becareful with bantering terms like hotjoin hero..bcause the very heroes you speak of are in hotjoin regularly. We are all in hotjoin regularly mucking round.

Well I am talking about just putting healing signet with stun build it is very powerful I think its base needs reduction. I don’t have a problem with warrior being viable, but why should we have such a low skill floor and cheesy build :/ thats my problem with warrior now.

You know what?

We don’t need to nerf it. We need to CHANGE healing signet.

What about a skill that has to be toggled, and that heals for much more than now while toggled, but increases the damage you receive by a lot?

Example:

Signet of Gamble.

While active, heals you for 1000 per second, but increases all the damage (condi damage included) you take by 50%/100%. You can toggle/untoggle it only once every 5/10 seconds.

This might add more complextiy to our gameplay.

redslion.9675:

You know what?

We don’t need to nerf it. We need to CHANGE healing signet.

What about a skill that has to be toggled, and that heals for much more than now while toggled, but increases the damage you receive by a lot?

Example:

Signet of Gamble.

While active, heals you for 1000 per second, but increases all the damage (condi damage included) you take by 50%/100%. You can toggle/untoggle it only once every 5/10 seconds.

This might add more complextiy to our gameplay.

Why does healing signet need to be changed? Attacking a warrior with healing signet is not very different from (actually worst than) attacking an ele with protection on, or meleeing a thief in a smoke bomb field. Whereas protection and blind are forms of damage mitigation, the sustain from healing signet has zero mitigation. The warrior is taking the full brunt force of all damage sources, and the sustain is even susceptible to poison’s healing reduction. The last point is extremely important: warriors have no passive condition removal, so poison is very potent on warriors.

redslion.9675:

You know what?

We don’t need to nerf it. We need to CHANGE healing signet.

What about a skill that has to be toggled, and that heals for much more than now while toggled, but increases the damage you receive by a lot?

Example:

Signet of Gamble.

While active, heals you for 1000 per second, but increases all the damage (condi damage included) you take by 50%/100%. You can toggle/untoggle it only once every 5/10 seconds.

This might add more complextiy to our gameplay.

Why use the negative component at all? If you want to change it… give Warriors Troll Ungent.

Healing Signet could use a 50 health/second nerf. I think that would make it more balanced.

Its a good noob skill but it has no business being more effective than skills you have to actually use.

(I changed the Thread title because a Mod/Dev removed the “Dev” portion)

Am i the only one getting constant urges to spam facepalms on myself while reading the majority of posts.Are people REALLY comparring war regen to a guardian’s? HELLO!? War has no healing ability while guard keeps his regen plus one if not the best #6 heals in the game plus protection?
Just Wow completely speechless.

Problem is that this games meta is so much inclined towards bunkering.I know right UNNACEPTABLE to actually have to spec dps to do damage?!

Thank god a few mesmers have a clue about what i am actually talking about.Rezt of you just keep bunqq more and complain about not being able to do 500 damage per second on someone who lacks an entire heal ability plus direct access to boons, tricks, targeting exploits detargetting, invis , complete Ui blocks and whatever everyone complaining here in general has..

CC regen warriors are OP right now. It has nothing to do with conditions. It’s just an overbuffed spec along with necros AOE spam and S/D thieves. Spirit rangers are now ok with the nerf yesterday.

A warrior with Healing Signet (and possibly Adrenal Health) can have protection and regeneration put on top of all that to make him a very difficult target to kill. Other classes do not have the same level of access to passive health recovery in the form of non-boons that stacks with boons.

Overall, I still think Healing Signet needs a small nerf, and ANet need to fix Sigil of Paralyzation.

Serdoc.7261:

A warrior with Healing Signet (and possibly Adrenal Health) can have protection and regeneration put on top of all that to make him a very difficult target to kill. Other classes do not have the same level of access to passive health recovery in the form of non-boons that stacks with boons.

Overall, I still think Healing Signet needs a small nerf, and ANet need to fix Sigil of Paralyzation.

It needs a big nerf. Its passive heal should be mediocre unless geared for healing power. If it required a lot of healing power to reach the numbers it currently has, then I would say that is balanced.

Aza.2105:

Serdoc.7261:

A warrior with Healing Signet (and possibly Adrenal Health) can have protection and regeneration put on top of all that to make him a very difficult target to kill. Other classes do not have the same level of access to passive health recovery in the form of non-boons that stacks with boons.

Overall, I still think Healing Signet needs a small nerf, and ANet need to fix Sigil of Paralyzation.

It needs a big nerf. Its passive heal should be mediocre unless geared for healing power. If it required a lot of healing power to reach the numbers it currently has, then I would say that is balanced.

No, because then its not balanced to every other piece of gear in the game.

You can’t balance a skill around gear, otherwise it wouldn’t be a skill, it would be a niche, and NO OTHER CLASSES have niches, warrior skills SHOULD NOT Be either. THIS game was NOT made for a single type of gear and everyone having the same traits.

Give Warriors Perma-Vigor, Perma-Protection, Perma-Regeneration, Spammable Blinds, Stealth, Aegis and I will agree with you, however until that day, Learn to Play.

Mending should be a Physical Skill, Weapons should be revamped.

Skull Crack needs changed, however if you nerf stun and do nothing else, it will be a weapon nobody uses. Same with HS.

Warriors do not have the defensive traits other classes have, we don’t have a ‘5’ or ‘10’ point trait that cures conditions passively, we don’t have perma-vigor, we don’t have cheese stealth or get out of jail free cards, WE don’t have teleports and We don’t have any grandmaster traits that keep us alive LIKE every other class does.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monk%27s_Focus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fetid_Consumption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bark_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond

WE have no powerful GRAND-MASTER Survivability Traits, we have no cool traits that keep us alive like the other classes as we fight, we have nothing that passively heals us.

I’ve only skim read this but here is my two cents -

I’ve built a condi warrior that manages to achieve 865 (give or take) regen a second (This number has been divided by 3 to consider the adren heal), I have 3.3k toughness and can reach 100 tick bleeds – It’s hard for this spec to loose in a 1v1 and all of it’s sustainability and damage comes from PASSIVE play, all I have to do is stack condis and stand there and it can’t loose, even in 2v1’s most of the time. I also built a CC warrior, had less healing but a ton more damage and because people were chain CC’d I was free to regen that health.

I’ve had a few people rage at me because of it and even a few that were in envy of it . Warrior has the highest passive regen of all the classes, please note that I said passive and I didn’t mention they were the best bunkers, they can bunker but they don’t have much access to protection.

It’s the regen that is the problem mostly, 2 traits and a signet and they can sustain in a 1v1 forever. Also the chain stunning with the sigil is quite a problem, it was before but then we had more SB’s but then some got removed or where placed to other skills but then nothing has been done about chain fearing necros or chain stunning warriors, skull crack needs a change in animation so it’s more telegraphed mainly. (Oh and the trait that gives 50% extra crit chance when opo is stunned needs to be moved up a tier.)

Other then that wars need work in other area’s, banners are lack luster unless you’re building a regen build – they should offer different ways to support your team. It’s pretty much stances all the way, sometimes might see bulls rush and bolas but stances outshine anything else, really.

TL/DR – Warrior is too passive, stun locking to a bit too powerful after the changes to SB’s on other classes (It’s more a case of abundance of stuns than duration, tbh), utilities and some traits need moving/rethinking.

@Daecollo – Cleansing Ire, which I would rather have over 1 condi every 10 seconds, any day of the week. Maybe not perma vigor but can be traited (10 pts irc) for vigor on stances. Maybe not have stealth or teleports but most of the weapons offer a form of mobility, greatsword in particular so we can get in and out of fights with relative ease. Erm, endure pain at low health and shouts heal say hello?

Give Warriors immunity to poison, and I will agree with you.

Warrior is less passive then other classes actually. Warrior is currently the most Proactive class in the entire game.

My only problem with warriors is the signet, personally, which I feel is over the top b/c I play ele. I can play a dps ele (0/20/0/20/30 with zerker or valk’s amulet) with S/D, unload my full-burst and then continue to attack. The burst will get him no lower than 60%, and then he will simply continue to out-heal my attacks and be near-100% when my burst is ready again.

Classes that don’t have access to poison don’t have the tools to take on warrior’s with high toughness and crazy heal right now. I agree that it should heal less base and scale greater with healing power.

I can handle the high heal on adrenal health b/c it requires them to time their heal, and even if it is the same hp/s, I can bait him or interrupt the heal. There is no counter for the passive heal except poison, which only certain classes have access to.

Aza.2105:

Lighter.5631:

Aza.2105:

Lighter.5631:

Aza.2105:

A healing signet warrior has higher regen than a guardian with clerics set, all the while doing substantially more damage. I feel the problem is that healing signet scales too well without cleric gear. It should hit 400+ hp when a warrior is decked out with healing power.

Otherwise its much too strong.

Yet Guardians are still the best bunkers in the game

My point is warrior can go full damage and still out heal guardian without the need to go healing power.

How is that balanced? There is no choice to give up damage for better regen. They get damage and regen without sacrifice.

So warrior can bunk better then guardian? make up your logic! and no warrior don’t go full damage and out heal any single one at all. do you just troll for troll or just have completely no idea what you are talking about.

What does this have to do with anything I’ve said? I’m not the one who mentioned up bunker, you did.

you are basically saying that warrior can out heal and has better sustain then a defensive speced guardian while go full damage(sustain which is what a bunker do btw in case you didn’t know). if not then what you are complaining about. Like what the heal are you complaining about when out healing a guardian doesn’t make them better at sustaining, seriously.

Cleansing Ire can be dodged, avoided, and blinded, and prevented by Aegis/Stun/Invulnerability/Block.

Those traits you claim, they work every 10 seconds regardless of situation. They also take less points to get.

HEALING ISN’T WHAT MAKES A GUARDIAN GOOD, ITS AEGIS, BLIND, INVULNERABILITIES, PROTECTION, PASSIVE CONDITION REMOVAL, ACTIVE CONDITION CONVERSION, HIGH BOON UPTIME. WARRIORS DON"T EVEN HAVE THAT MUCH HEALING OVER A GUARDIAN. Also the fact they they support the entire team!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Counter-play-Poison-and-Stability/first#post2759909

If only you could see how much damage was actually PREVENTED by a guardian, none of you would be whining.

I don’t see how you can call Warrior “passive.” Our Heals may be more passive but that is balanced out by the fact that we have all active condition removal. People act like pressing the heal skill is some sort of skillful action now. I can bet that any “shaving” will throw Warriors into the exact same position that Mesmers are currently in.

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1 but still vulnerable to team pressure, even more so with Healing Signet. The difference is that Mesmer tend to be weak to conditions and since they are in the meta they don’t see much play (along with a few other reasons).

I have to ask, how many of you calling for nerfs have even tried modifying your build to account for Warrior? I’ve seen a few smart players who have and as a result can either fight me to a stalemate or at the very least hold out long enough for backup to arrive. They can do this while still preforming their original role, they typically just have to change a offensive utility or trait to a defensive one.

Look at how much Warrior gives up to be so resilient to conditions. We run Soldiers gear with traits like Dogged March and Cleansing Ire with skills like Zerker Stance and Signet of Stamina in addition to runes like Mel and Hoelbrak. Do I WANT to have to bring so many defensive things in my build? No. I have to though in order to avoid being stomped into the ground. I’d love to run all Physical Utility skills or other offensive utilities and to get rid of my 20 points in defense and put is somewhere else, but I can’t do so and expect to be effective.

Many players want to be able to always have a chance at killing any build with their own, that’s not how balance in these types of games work. I know not EVERY class has a hard counter to what we are currently running but instead of demanding nerfs, why don’t you ask for ways to counter what’s killing you like sensible Warriors on the forums did? Of course we had some of just saying “nerf dis,” but did you know that the majority of the changes we received were in some way suggested by the forums?

Warriors adapted, so forgive me if I find some of you selfish when you refuse to change your builds to account for mine when I designed mine to counter your. The tools are already there, use them. Ignore answering these points and you’ve lost the argument.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1

and there are still classes that are better then warriors in 1v1.

Lighter.5631:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1

and there are still classes that are better then warriors in 1v1.

Warrior is the Red Mage of GW2 right now.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t see how you can call Warrior “passive.” Our Heals may be more passive but that is balanced out by the fact that we have all active condition removal. People act like pressing the heal skill is some sort of skillful action now. I can bet that any “shaving” will throw Warriors into the exact same position that Mesmers are currently in.

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1 but still vulnerable to team pressure, even more so with Healing Signet. The difference is that Mesmer tend to be weak to conditions and since they are in the meta they don’t see much play (along with a few other reasons).

I have to ask, how many of you calling for nerfs have even tried modifying your build to account for Warrior? I’ve seen a few smart players who have and as a result can either fight me to a stalemate or at the very least hold out long enough for backup to arrive. They can do this while still preforming their original role, they typically just have to change a offensive utility or trait to a defensive one.

Look at how much Warrior gives up to be so resilient to conditions. We run Soldiers gear with traits like Dogged March and Cleansing Ire with skills like Zerker Stance and Signet of Stamina in addition to runes like Mel and Hoelbrak. Do I WANT to have to bring so many defensive things in my build? No. I have to though in order to avoid being stomped into the ground. I’d love to run all Physical Utility skills or other offensive utilities and to get rid of my 20 points in defense and put is somewhere else, but I can’t do so and expect to be effective.

Many players want to be able to always have a chance at killing any build with their own, that’s not how balance in these types of games work. I know not EVERY class has a hard counter to what we are currently running but instead of demanding nerfs, why don’t you ask for ways to counter what’s killing you like sensible Warriors on the forums did? Of course we had some of just saying “nerf dis,” but did you know that the majority of the changes we received were in some way suggested by the forums?

Warriors adapted, so forgive me if I find some of you selfish when you refuse to change your builds to account for mine when I designed mine to counter your. The tools are already there, use them. Ignore answering these points and you’ve lost the argument.

Sorry but, all easy to play specs should be destroyed. So your argument is completely wrong. We should never have had the healing signet buffed along with the zerk stance.
I hate having to play easy class. Sorry not going to stop till it gets nerfed.

Daecollo.9578:

Aza.2105:

Serdoc.7261:

A warrior with Healing Signet (and possibly Adrenal Health) can have protection and regeneration put on top of all that to make him a very difficult target to kill. Other classes do not have the same level of access to passive health recovery in the form of non-boons that stacks with boons.

Overall, I still think Healing Signet needs a small nerf, and ANet need to fix Sigil of Paralyzation.

It needs a big nerf. Its passive heal should be mediocre unless geared for healing power. If it required a lot of healing power to reach the numbers it currently has, then I would say that is balanced.

No, because then its not balanced to every other piece of gear in the game.

You can’t balance a skill around gear, otherwise it wouldn’t be a skill, it would be a niche, and NO OTHER CLASSES have niches, warrior skills SHOULD NOT Be either. THIS game was NOT made for a single type of gear and everyone having the same traits.

Give Warriors Perma-Vigor, Perma-Protection, Perma-Regeneration, Spammable Blinds, Stealth, Aegis and I will agree with you, however until that day, Learn to Play.

Mending should be a Physical Skill, Weapons should be revamped.

Skull Crack needs changed, however if you nerf stun and do nothing else, it will be a weapon nobody uses. Same with HS.

Warriors do not have the defensive traits other classes have, we don’t have a ‘5’ or ‘10’ point trait that cures conditions passively, we don’t have perma-vigor, we don’t have cheese stealth or get out of jail free cards, WE don’t have teleports and We don’t have any grandmaster traits that keep us alive LIKE every other class does.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monk%27s_Focus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fetid_Consumption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bark_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond

WE have no powerful GRAND-MASTER Survivability Traits, we have no cool traits that keep us alive like the other classes as we fight, we have nothing that passively heals us.

Warriors have a freaking massive health pool, as well as berserker’s stance and invulnerability as well as a great shield #5. Please tell me how Berserker’s stance isn’t a get out of jail free card against ANY condition class in the game. Warriors are great right now and passive healing of the signet should be brought down by 15-25%. Oh, try and consider things like cleansing ire before you shout about how warriors have no survivability traits. Many of those things you listed also are far weaker than the signet passive heal, AND ARE ONLY ACTIVATED BY CERTAIN ACTIONS. Are you seriously comparing monk’s focus to a completely automatic passive heal?

apt.9184:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t see how you can call Warrior “passive.” Our Heals may be more passive but that is balanced out by the fact that we have all active condition removal. People act like pressing the heal skill is some sort of skillful action now. I can bet that any “shaving” will throw Warriors into the exact same position that Mesmers are currently in.

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1 but still vulnerable to team pressure, even more so with Healing Signet. The difference is that Mesmer tend to be weak to conditions and since they are in the meta they don’t see much play (along with a few other reasons).

I have to ask, how many of you calling for nerfs have even tried modifying your build to account for Warrior? I’ve seen a few smart players who have and as a result can either fight me to a stalemate or at the very least hold out long enough for backup to arrive. They can do this while still preforming their original role, they typically just have to change a offensive utility or trait to a defensive one.

Look at how much Warrior gives up to be so resilient to conditions. We run Soldiers gear with traits like Dogged March and Cleansing Ire with skills like Zerker Stance and Signet of Stamina in addition to runes like Mel and Hoelbrak. Do I WANT to have to bring so many defensive things in my build? No. I have to though in order to avoid being stomped into the ground. I’d love to run all Physical Utility skills or other offensive utilities and to get rid of my 20 points in defense and put is somewhere else, but I can’t do so and expect to be effective.

Many players want to be able to always have a chance at killing any build with their own, that’s not how balance in these types of games work. I know not EVERY class has a hard counter to what we are currently running but instead of demanding nerfs, why don’t you ask for ways to counter what’s killing you like sensible Warriors on the forums did? Of course we had some of just saying “nerf dis,” but did you know that the majority of the changes we received were in some way suggested by the forums?

Warriors adapted, so forgive me if I find some of you selfish when you refuse to change your builds to account for mine when I designed mine to counter your. The tools are already there, use them. Ignore answering these points and you’ve lost the argument.

Sorry but, all easy to play specs should be destroyed. So your argument is completely wrong. We should never have had the healing signet buffed along with the zerk stance.
I hate having to play easy class. Sorry not going to stop till it gets nerfed.

you like to play the hard build? play the hard build. problem solved

Arachnid.4062:

Daecollo.9578:

Aza.2105:

Serdoc.7261:

A warrior with Healing Signet (and possibly Adrenal Health) can have protection and regeneration put on top of all that to make him a very difficult target to kill. Other classes do not have the same level of access to passive health recovery in the form of non-boons that stacks with boons.

Overall, I still think Healing Signet needs a small nerf, and ANet need to fix Sigil of Paralyzation.

It needs a big nerf. Its passive heal should be mediocre unless geared for healing power. If it required a lot of healing power to reach the numbers it currently has, then I would say that is balanced.

No, because then its not balanced to every other piece of gear in the game.

You can’t balance a skill around gear, otherwise it wouldn’t be a skill, it would be a niche, and NO OTHER CLASSES have niches, warrior skills SHOULD NOT Be either. THIS game was NOT made for a single type of gear and everyone having the same traits.

Give Warriors Perma-Vigor, Perma-Protection, Perma-Regeneration, Spammable Blinds, Stealth, Aegis and I will agree with you, however until that day, Learn to Play.

Mending should be a Physical Skill, Weapons should be revamped.

Skull Crack needs changed, however if you nerf stun and do nothing else, it will be a weapon nobody uses. Same with HS.

Warriors do not have the defensive traits other classes have, we don’t have a ‘5’ or ‘10’ point trait that cures conditions passively, we don’t have perma-vigor, we don’t have cheese stealth or get out of jail free cards, WE don’t have teleports and We don’t have any grandmaster traits that keep us alive LIKE every other class does.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monk%27s_Focus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fetid_Consumption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bark_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond

WE have no powerful GRAND-MASTER Survivability Traits, we have no cool traits that keep us alive like the other classes as we fight, we have nothing that passively heals us.

Warriors have a freaking massive health pool, as well as berserker’s stance and invulnerability as well as a great shield #5. Please tell me how Berserker’s stance isn’t a get out of jail free card against ANY condition class in the game. Warriors are great right now and passive healing of the signet should be brought down by 15-25%. Oh, try and consider things like cleansing ire before you shout about how warriors have no survivability traits. Many of those things you listed also are far weaker than the signet passive heal, AND ARE ONLY ACTIVATED BY CERTAIN ACTIONS. Are you seriously comparing monk’s focus to a completely automatic passive heal?

please teach me how you get invulnerability with warrior. i beg you, i want it so bad.

apt.9184:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t see how you can call Warrior “passive.” Our Heals may be more passive but that is balanced out by the fact that we have all active condition removal. People act like pressing the heal skill is some sort of skillful action now. I can bet that any “shaving” will throw Warriors into the exact same position that Mesmers are currently in.

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1 but still vulnerable to team pressure, even more so with Healing Signet. The difference is that Mesmer tend to be weak to conditions and since they are in the meta they don’t see much play (along with a few other reasons).

I have to ask, how many of you calling for nerfs have even tried modifying your build to account for Warrior? I’ve seen a few smart players who have and as a result can either fight me to a stalemate or at the very least hold out long enough for backup to arrive. They can do this while still preforming their original role, they typically just have to change a offensive utility or trait to a defensive one.

Look at how much Warrior gives up to be so resilient to conditions. We run Soldiers gear with traits like Dogged March and Cleansing Ire with skills like Zerker Stance and Signet of Stamina in addition to runes like Mel and Hoelbrak. Do I WANT to have to bring so many defensive things in my build? No. I have to though in order to avoid being stomped into the ground. I’d love to run all Physical Utility skills or other offensive utilities and to get rid of my 20 points in defense and put is somewhere else, but I can’t do so and expect to be effective.

Many players want to be able to always have a chance at killing any build with their own, that’s not how balance in these types of games work. I know not EVERY class has a hard counter to what we are currently running but instead of demanding nerfs, why don’t you ask for ways to counter what’s killing you like sensible Warriors on the forums did? Of course we had some of just saying “nerf dis,” but did you know that the majority of the changes we received were in some way suggested by the forums?

Warriors adapted, so forgive me if I find some of you selfish when you refuse to change your builds to account for mine when I designed mine to counter your. The tools are already there, use them. Ignore answering these points and you’ve lost the argument.

Sorry but, all easy to play specs should be destroyed. So your argument is completely wrong. We should never have had the healing signet buffed along with the zerk stance.
I hate having to play easy class. Sorry not going to stop till it gets nerfed.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill

I kinda love how there’s a video for almost any game related argument. While I don’t agree that it is an easy spec, by your balancing doctrine PvP would shrivel up and die because new players would get tired of being destroyed they would never stay.

That being said not a single build in this game that is viable is “hard” to play. after you get accustomed to Engis and Ele’s volume of skills they aren’t that difficult to play. I don’t know what you want from this game, there’s nothing on Warrior more difficult to use than Hammer. You don’t appear to want Healing Signet “balanced” but sent back into the useless category. Not to mention like I said before any “shave” to the current builds will leave Warrior once again out in the cold and will never see high level play.

Warrior is the most proactive class? Ha.

And those 1 condition every 10 seconds aren’t as great as one would think, due to condi’s being 1st in last out. That is why I’d much rather cleansing ire, it’s basically got a 10s ICD and cures what, 3 condi’s? While guardians have a GM trait that cure 1 condi into a boon when using shouts…
I think you’re underestimating the power of CI imo.

Ageis is what makes a guard good? It has a 40 sec inc and if you use it, it goes on like a 90 sec C/D? It’s nothing to scoff at, really. Oh noes, all those blinds, do you mean the one they get on the focus and sword? Pretty sure other classes have many more blinds.
A 3 second invuln that is their elite and is channelled irc, so they can do anything during, yet as a warrior with a shield you get 2-3 seconds of blocking all attacks? Which has a much shorter C/D? Warrior can have high boon uptime too, but I’m pretty sure thats what guardian is about, providing boon support to their team – nothing to be jealous of considering they’re giving you their boons too.

It’s kinda a guardians job to mitigate damage, they have a low health pool, they can barley reach what a warrior has as a base! Now can you stop with this little hate rant you have for another class and focus on the warrior? Thanks.

I wish people that played warrior would stop flashing the “We’re UP card” you’re far from it, the regen isn’t a problem at the moment because of Necro’s and Spirit Rangers – they overshadow everything atm. Heck even w/o the regen I’d love a warrior on my team.

BurrTheKing.8571:

That being said not a single build in this game that is viable is “hard” to play. after you get accustomed to Engis and Ele’s volume of skills they aren’t that difficult to play. I don’t know what you want from this game, there’s nothing on Warrior more difficult to use than Hammer. You don’t appear to want Healing Signet “balanced” but sent back into the useless category. Not to mention like I said before any “shave” to the current builds will leave Warrior once again out in the cold and will never see high level play.

There actually are professions that take skill to play more than you think. Aiming grenades from distance, lining up telegraphed ele skills, hitting some melee skills, applying blinds selectively or interrupting important skills, sizing up your opponent and keeping track of their dodges/cooldowns, etc. Warrior used to require a lot of skill to play b/c you would need to time your burst and play strategically. The problem with healing signet is that it allows “facetanking” (not that I like that term). It requires no active mitigation for the most part: warriors with immunities and unreasonably high passive regen doesn’t actually play strategically anymore. It just allows warriors to stand there, ignore their opponents attacks, and hack away. Landing hammer skills when you have to manage your health requires some skill. Landing hammer skills when you can ignore what your opponent does besides stability requires very little skill.

Healing surge is o.k. because it requires timing the best time to heal, managing a tradeoff of heal vs. adrenaline, and has counter-play by interrupting, which every class can do. Healing signet just does its thing, and does it incredibly well.

BurrTheKing.8571:

apt.9184:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t see how you can call Warrior “passive.” Our Heals may be more passive but that is balanced out by the fact that we have all active condition removal. People act like pressing the heal skill is some sort of skillful action now. I can bet that any “shaving” will throw Warriors into the exact same position that Mesmers are currently in.

I feel like a preacher with how often I repeat myself but The Game is not Balanced for 1v1. Right now, warriors are like the heavy version of Mesmers. They are strong 1v1 but still vulnerable to team pressure, even more so with Healing Signet. The difference is that Mesmer tend to be weak to conditions and since they are in the meta they don’t see much play (along with a few other reasons).

I have to ask, how many of you calling for nerfs have even tried modifying your build to account for Warrior? I’ve seen a few smart players who have and as a result can either fight me to a stalemate or at the very least hold out long enough for backup to arrive. They can do this while still preforming their original role, they typically just have to change a offensive utility or trait to a defensive one.

Look at how much Warrior gives up to be so resilient to conditions. We run Soldiers gear with traits like Dogged March and Cleansing Ire with skills like Zerker Stance and Signet of Stamina in addition to runes like Mel and Hoelbrak. Do I WANT to have to bring so many defensive things in my build? No. I have to though in order to avoid being stomped into the ground. I’d love to run all Physical Utility skills or other offensive utilities and to get rid of my 20 points in defense and put is somewhere else, but I can’t do so and expect to be effective.

Many players want to be able to always have a chance at killing any build with their own, that’s not how balance in these types of games work. I know not EVERY class has a hard counter to what we are currently running but instead of demanding nerfs, why don’t you ask for ways to counter what’s killing you like sensible Warriors on the forums did? Of course we had some of just saying “nerf dis,” but did you know that the majority of the changes we received were in some way suggested by the forums?

Warriors adapted, so forgive me if I find some of you selfish when you refuse to change your builds to account for mine when I designed mine to counter your. The tools are already there, use them. Ignore answering these points and you’ve lost the argument.

Sorry but, all easy to play specs should be destroyed. So your argument is completely wrong. We should never have had the healing signet buffed along with the zerk stance.
I hate having to play easy class. Sorry not going to stop till it gets nerfed.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill

I kinda love how there’s a video for almost any game related argument. While I don’t agree that it is an easy spec, by your balancing doctrine PvP would shrivel up and die because new players would get tired of being destroyed they would never stay.

That being said not a single build in this game that is viable is “hard” to play. after you get accustomed to Engis and Ele’s volume of skills they aren’t that difficult to play. I don’t know what you want from this game, there’s nothing on Warrior more difficult to use than Hammer. You don’t appear to want Healing Signet “balanced” but sent back into the useless category. Not to mention like I said before any “shave” to the current builds will leave Warrior once again out in the cold and will never see high level play.

Yea, engis for example playing at entry level is easy once you get past skills, but playing it top tier pvp is different story, while warriors entry is easy now and playing top tier is easy as long as you know the mechanics of conquest. Btw new players don’t need super uber meta builds. There were shout builds that were tanky and easier to play, but were not really that great as the gs builds. We were viable before frenzy nerf, if they gave our frenzy a 100 or 75 percent quickness again it would be nice for the old zerk build. Healing signet was always good with tankier setups so I don’t see why it should of been buffed although I like the buff to healing surge and mending. Its just they need to revert 3 sec stun to 2 and maybe reduce zerk stance duration to 6. I honestly think that signet should be reverted maybe they can increase heal from it, but in all passive regen in my opinion is just a bad mechanic. Mace was way more balanced pre patch along with everything else warrior had all they needed to do was give us little buffs not huge game breaking stuns with little animation (2secs was fine). Warrior was never a free kill for all the people saying that it was. Bad players were free kills.

BlackBeard.2873:

BurrTheKing.8571:

That being said not a single build in this game that is viable is “hard” to play. after you get accustomed to Engis and Ele’s volume of skills they aren’t that difficult to play. I don’t know what you want from this game, there’s nothing on Warrior more difficult to use than Hammer. You don’t appear to want Healing Signet “balanced” but sent back into the useless category. Not to mention like I said before any “shave” to the current builds will leave Warrior once again out in the cold and will never see high level play.

There actually are professions that take skill to play more than you think. Aiming grenades from distance, lining up telegraphed ele skills, hitting some melee skills, applying blinds selectively or interrupting important skills, sizing up your opponent and keeping track of their dodges/cooldowns, etc. Warrior used to require a lot of skill to play b/c you would need to time your burst and play strategically. The problem with healing signet is that it allows “facetanking” (not that I like that term). It requires no active mitigation for the most part: warriors with immunities and unreasonably high passive regen doesn’t actually play strategically anymore. It just allows warriors to stand there, ignore their opponents attacks, and hack away. Landing hammer skills when you have to manage your health requires some skill. Landing hammer skills when you can ignore what your opponent does besides stability requires very little skill.

Healing surge is o.k. because it requires timing the best time to heal, managing a tradeoff of heal vs. adrenaline, and has counter-play by interrupting, which every class can do. Healing signet just does its thing, and does it incredibly well.

^Exactly

I play Engi as a secondary and while nades are initially hard to land, once you turn on fast cast and get used to the travel time it’s not “hard,” it just takes getting used to. I would be fine with running Healing Surge, but why would I when the meta is conditions, which makes Healing sig the obvious choice. a S/D Thief can train me easily as can multiple Mesmer builds.People keep bring in the nature of the skill, even though that very nature has obvious weaknesses. I know I would switch to Surge in a heartbeat if the meta became Power again because Healing Sig would be terrible. There is some “skill” required to play the game well, but no class is hard to play. This isn’t Tribes or Quake, at the end of the game it’s 3rd person MMO combat where most of the ranged attacks simply require selecting a target and pressing a button. SMITE is for the most part doing ranged combat correctly, and GW2 could learn from it but it seems unlikely the game will ever go to its level of almost everything being a “skillshot.”

Another thing, I haven’t seen any reasonable change suggestions. What would you have it do that it doesn’t become outclassed by one of the other 2 heals? We have a big burst heal, a condi removal one, and a regen one. Making the passive less or forcing it to scale more with Healing Power won’t do any good. Reducing it will make it worthless, and scaling would force cleric gear which would make it a totally inferior Guardian.

Whether or not you agree with the skills nature or not isn’t as important as “is it balanced,” which it is. It’s valuable against a certain playstlye and weak vs another. If you don’t enjoy using it, don’t. If you don’t like being killed by people using it, bring something to counter it.

EDIT: As for the mace “issue,” if it gets renerfed back to 2 seconds you have basically removed it from the game because no Warrior in his right mind would choose it over Hammer.

I’m honestly just annoyed that if I happen to come across a warrior now that I have to dodge 3-6 stuns/ccs on relatively short cd while he/she regens through my damage. The fact that their damage can scale up off of their cc makes it even worse. If that kind of stun lock combo took a long time to recharge, or was more for the control aspect of combat, I wouldn’t have as much of a problem with it. Builds like that highlight the problem with necessitating so much stunbreak and condition removal.

Im here just so everyone can see my new signature.

HS already has a major counter/weakness. Poison. It effects it more then every other healing ability in the game.

Nerf Mace stun and your going to have to revamp the entire weapon.

Make Hundred Blades a Burst Skill and your going to have to do the same.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Greatsword-Revamp-Burst-HB/first#post2773050

Burr, you do make some good points about the use of the skill. However, I would argue that S/D thief and Mesmer needs to be toned down, especially in a power meta. At the same time, the healing signet should be toned down by maybe 15-20% so that the warrior is actually killable by more power builds than just the extreme ones. It is currently the best heal in almost all ways, as even in the condi meta mending isn’t taken, and healing surge is rarely used.

Also, ranged damage should be either harder to hit or do less damage (my preferred), because currently it outclasses melee in almost all ways.

In my mind, the healing signet should be used in aggressive builds. It should heal based on how much damage is done, which plays into the design of warrior as a juggernaut. Perhaps this would be OP in PvE or WvW, but in sPvP would work quite well. Healing surge is your burst heal for balanced builds, signet is your heal for all-out aggression, and mending should be your anti-condi heal.

Daecollo.9578:

HS already has a major counter/weakness. Poison. It effects it more then every other healing ability in the game.

Nerf Mace stun and your going to have to revamp the entire weapon.

Make Hundred Blades a Burst Skill and your going to have to do the same.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Greatsword-Revamp-Burst-HB/first#post2773050

I’m sorry, but you keep spilling that all over the forums! Poison is a counter to every heal, it’s not exclusive to HS. Also, to really make it work efficiently, you’d have to spam poison fields as a thief, hoping it doesn’t get cleaned in the next 10 seconds or so (even then, their lost “healing potential”, wasn’t that huge).

The problem with HS,is its base and how it scales. You see, a 392 healing/s is not to mock, especially when you put Berserker’s builds in the equation. That’s probably the highest healing any profession can get, running a zerk decicated build. Hell, I’d even trade all the guardian heals, just to have it.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think it’s super OP. The warrior indeed, need the sustain. But the base heal is far off right now. It needs to be toned down (the base) and make it scales better with healing power. That, and of course, fixing the Para Sigil, would cease most of these “warrior strong, remove warrior” shout outs…

Dae, you make it sound like every class has easy access to poison, only necro, engi and theif do and aren’t warrior supposed to be the counter to necro…?
Nerfing the stun won’t require a wep revamp, fixing the sigil of para may well be enough. And I have no idea why HB wasn’t the GS’s adren skill anyways….

BlackBeard, may I snuggle up and cuddle your beard?
Ahem, that aside, that is a pretty good idea, it’d be like the dreadful siphon necro has but it being based on how much damage you do, that’d mean you’d have to actively land your burst meaning people would be less mindless and would also reward you for it. I mean the Ele’s and Thiefs signet heals work on actions and they’re both action based classes so that would suit the warrior as it is a powerhouse.

Asomal.6453:

Daecollo.9578:

HS already has a major counter/weakness. Poison. It effects it more then every other healing ability in the game.

Nerf Mace stun and your going to have to revamp the entire weapon.

Make Hundred Blades a Burst Skill and your going to have to do the same.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Greatsword-Revamp-Burst-HB/first#post2773050

I’m sorry, but you keep spilling that all over the forums! Poison is a counter to every heal, it’s not exclusive to HS. Also, to really make it work efficiently, you’d have to spam poison fields as a thief, hoping it doesn’t get cleaned in the next 10 seconds or so (even then, their lost “healing potential”, wasn’t that huge).

The problem with HS,is its base and how it scales. You see, a 392 healing/s is not to mock, especially when you put Berserker’s builds in the equation. That’s probably the highest healing any profession can get, running a zerk decicated build. Hell, I’d even trade all the guardian heals, just to have it.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think it’s super OP. The warrior indeed, need the sustain. But the base heal is far off right now. It needs to be toned down (the base) and make it scales better with healing power. That, and of course, fixing the Para Sigil, would cease most of these “warrior strong, remove warrior” shout outs…

What are you going to compare that too?

No, that would turn HS into a Niche, something no other healing skill in the game is. Why should we be nerfed when no-body else is. We don’t have the defensive healing traits and protection and blinds and aegis and invulnerability and spam-ing evades and skills other classes have.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_of_Nature has more HP/S.

I’m happy Warriors are the way they are, because if they weren’t, Rangers and Necros would be running rampant for the past 2 months in all their pure facerolling awesomeness.

Any counter to lame is better than no counter at all.

Dae, are you seriously that narrow minded?
The mantra heal for Mesmer is a niche heal, the elixir heal for engi is a niche heal, necro’s minion heal is niche, need I continue?

No one else has the regen and the health pool and the toughness while retaining high amounts of damage a warrior has. Warrior isn’t meant to have defencive healing traits, if you want that play a guardian/elementalist, engineer to a lesser extent, but then you’ll only complain about their small health pools and lack of damage. Only Guardians get Aegis wish procs every 40 seconds and goes on an even longer CD when actually used, you’re over rating it, really. Don’t see why you’re so obssed with blinds, want a blind? Use a longbow, problem solved. Endure pain and the shield block says hello, again! Spam evades? Vigor on stance use and use Sigil of Energy, problemo solved.
Spirit of Nature has more HPS? Do you even read your own link or play the game for that matter? It has less HPS than the signet, is an elite and has a 3 min cooldown, you can hardly compare the two.

Curring.9752:

Dae, are you seriously that narrow minded?
The mantra heal for Mesmer is a niche heal, the elixir heal for engi is a niche heal, necro’s minion heal is niche, need I continue?

No one else has the regen and the health pool and the toughness while retaining high amounts of damage a warrior has. Warrior isn’t meant to have defencive healing traits, if you want that play a guardian/elementalist, engineer to a lesser extent, but then you’ll only complain about their small health pools and lack of damage. Only Guardians get Aegis wish procs every 40 seconds and goes on an even longer CD when actually used, you’re over rating it, really. Don’t see why you’re so obssed with blinds, want a blind? Use a longbow, problem solved. Endure pain and the shield block says hello, again! Spam evades? Vigor on stance use and use Sigil of Energy, problemo solved.
Spirit of Nature has more HPS? Do you even read your own link or play the game for that matter? It has less HPS than the signet, is an elite and has a 3 min cooldown, you can hardly compare the two.

It has 480 hp/s.

You also never Awnsered my question.

Warrior is not meant to have defensive traits? So why does thief? Warrior seems way more defensive minded then they should be.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation This is a Thief Defensive trait which HEALS for quite a lot, its not even a healing skill!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_H is not a Niche, it can be used with all combinations of armor and weapons and be viable. It does not need healing power to be effective.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Return is not a Niche, it can be used with all combinations of armor and weapons and be viable. It does not need healing power to be effective.

As soon as you start forcing people to gear for certain skills is the day you ruin the game. If you want to nerf Warrior, your going to have to give US a Grandmaster self healing trait like everyone else has!

Curring.9752:

Dae, are you seriously that narrow minded?
The mantra heal for Mesmer is a niche heal, the elixir heal for engi is a niche heal, necro’s minion heal is niche, need I continue?

No one else has the regen and the health pool and the toughness while retaining high amounts of damage a warrior has. Warrior isn’t meant to have defencive healing traits, if you want that play a guardian/elementalist, engineer to a lesser extent, but then you’ll only complain about their small health pools and lack of damage. Only Guardians get Aegis wish procs every 40 seconds and goes on an even longer CD when actually used, you’re over rating it, really. Don’t see why you’re so obssed with blinds, want a blind? Use a longbow, problem solved. Endure pain and the shield block says hello, again! Spam evades? Vigor on stance use and use Sigil of Energy, problemo solved.
Spirit of Nature has more HPS? Do you even read your own link or play the game for that matter? It has less HPS than the signet, is an elite and has a 3 min cooldown, you can hardly compare the two.

Wow, looks like you know alot about class at whole and warrior survivability.
Please, give us bunker build with all those awesome things (without healing signet ofc), record some vids with it in high-end tPvP and post here. I 250% sure, after that any warrior will sign petition about signet nerf and will start to play in your awesome skill-based build.

A Trait Idea (Grandmaster)

Battle Frenzy
Heals per strike of adrenaline.
125 (0.045 Healing Power)

Add a trait like this like the other classes have, and I will agree its OP. However since we don’t have such a trait that heals us significantly like the other classes do, please stop talking. We don’t even evades or protection.

Evade when using a Burst

Gain Protection after you use a shield skill

Gain Protection when you use a healing skill.

Gain Protection after you dodge

Gain Protection and Retaliation when Struck with a Critical Hit!

Warriors have almost no interesting traits, we have nothing cool-nore special. Our weapon skills don’t have boons/conditions like poison added to them, we are GENERIC. Our best traits add +% damage! GET REAL.

Give us the tools other classes have and I will show you the meaning of pain.

Most people just want warriors in sPvP to roll over and die like they did the 11 months before.