Guild Wars 2

Since the patch I would say the following:
Massively OP – Ele

Very slightly OP (but hardly at all) – Mesmer + Guardian

Balanced – Necro, Ranger, Thief, Engi

Slightly underpowered – Warrior

Apparently they deleted my thread on the ele being OP because someone reported it and I was told that you are not allowed to complain on the forums. So I guess we should confine our balance discussion to this thread if anyone still cares about pvp in this game of course which is debateable.

My tier list including the latest patch (even though I think this tier list is kinda pointless since it is different on every map):

1. Ele: strong if bunker build (not OP for me, since I main it I know how to counter it but I understand what most people are complaining about), strong orb runner if bunker build, ok if any other build
1. Thief: good if faceroll, strong if good player, stealth annoying since it has no counter, good orb runner
1. Mesmer: strong, good defense no matter how you build because of illusions, stealth again, good orb runner
1. Guardian: strong because of defensive abilities, strong orb (runner) protector

2. Engineer: good in any situation, strong orb runner
2. Ranger: good in most situations, strong orb runner

3. Necro: Ok in any situation, good orb (runner) protector
3. Warrior: Ok if not 100b faceroll, mediocre if played 100b faceroll, strong orb runner

Keep in mind ALL 1. professions are equally strong. Ele = Mesmer = Guardian and so on. This is the same for 2. and 3..

Currently there is no profession which is OP but some of them may need some buffs (mainly warriors and necros I would say). Every profession is beatable but some need a little more skill/knowledge.

strong > good > ok > mediocre just in case it looks confusing

@Lordrosicky.5813

I didn’t read your thread but as far as I know talking about most topics is ok. They usually only close threads if they are QQ or don’t give any chance for a conversation (e.g. “this game sucks, I quit”). Maybe this helps.

If you need some help against eles feel free to PM me ingame.

When considering only the new map, I’ld place Rangers in God tier, since they’re godlike orb runners. (With movement speed signet and GS/Sword+X)

8-10sec orb run? No problem.

When considering the new map, please also consider all other maps.

Has the new map introduced new builds that have succeeded in more places than just Spirit Watch?

Please change your lists accordingly.

Engi on the second lowest tier? I would move them up to Tier A or give them a + at least.

They have the three important builds (bunker, condi, burst), all of which are viable.

Also, I think this list would be more useful if you included the build, and allowed a profession to show up multiple times (once for each viable build). For example you might consider d/d valk ele Tier S, but what about zerker staff ele? (I swear I fought one in tpvp yesterday). Would help new players understand the meta better, and help Anet balance more accurately.

In a fighting games there’s no customization so saying “X, Y and Z” are the best is enough information. In this game, you need to know more. There is no class that belongs in the same tier for every build.

Oareo.1604:

Engi on the second lowest tier? I would move them up to Tier A or give them a + at least.

They have the three important builds (bunker, condi, burst), all of which are viable.

Also, I think this list would be more useful if you included the build, and allowed a profession to show up multiple times (once for each viable build). For example you might consider d/d valk ele Tier S, but what about zerker staff ele? (I swear I fought one in tpvp yesterday). Would help new players understand the meta better, and help Anet balance more accurately.

In a fighting games there’s no customization so saying “X, Y and Z” are the best is enough information. In this game, you need to know more. There is no class that belongs in the same tier for every build.

There’s only a handful of viable builds. Until there’s more build variety in the game, parsing the list out in such a way is not needed.

Edit:
I would categorize ‘viable’ as a build that is consistently seen and used in tPvP.
Just because you have seen a build in the past that someone was running does not make it viable. Considering I run tons of different builds, none are usually viable – I’m just in the process of attempting to make one viable through tPvP trial and error.

Defektive.7283:

This is my new personal tier list and it’s more focused on Class Use and the new Map.

Tier S
- Elementalist – Reason: Some loss in bunkering / dps viability (correct me if I’m wrong).

Tier A
+ Mesmer – unchanged.
Ranger – unchanged.
Guardian – They feel more useful as something other than a point defender (orb carrier).

Tier B
=Necro – Lots of bug fixes, but lacks mobility. Great in teamfights.
=Thief – Mobility + orb carrier burst is fantastic on SW.
=Engineer – 100n slight nerf, but I’ve seen some promising up-coming builds.

Tier C
+ Warrior – Reason: mobility + lockdown mechanics are a godsend in the new Map.
———————————————————————————————————

Guards were never just point defenders, it was support-bunker. And they’re definitely top tier on the new map, unsurpassed levels of control and survivability with the orb. They got a gigannnntic buff in the last update.

I don’t considered viable to mean “best”. In fact the best builds are often OP fotm style builds, which I suspect will be nerfed.

A viable build is one that works reasonably well. It makes sense, serves a function and is somewhat balanced.

Really only necro and ranger have 1 viable build. Maybe warriors but I’ve seen decent longbow warriors instead of the usual axe/shield. The rest have 2-3 builds that are viable.

You are making a bunch of assumptions about the builds people are running in this list. Not all ele builds are tier S and not all engi builds are tier B. Making such broad statements will only confuse people.

Oareo.1604:

Not all ele builds are tier S and not all engi builds are tier B. Making such broad statements will only confuse people.

Right, the list isn’t for all the tier B engy builds or Tier B ele builds. The list is for the cream of crop. How does each class stack up against other classes when at its most optimal state.

These kinds of questions are resolved when fighting in tPvP and you see most ele’s being the same build, most warriors being the same build etc.

These builds are popular because in the current meta they are the most optimal builds.

Making a tier list based on each potential build is not productive since there are hundreds of combinations. Most of the combinations are not viable, some combinations are almost viable but haven’t really taken off yet and still require tweeking and theory crafting.

To make a Tier list that encompasses all these variables would lend itself to an ever dynamically growing list that really can’t be handled by forum-goers. This would require precise statistics and an automated system to add, subject or remove builds from a multi-dimensional list.

I am proud to kick kittens with a subpar tier B class according to this kittenty tier list.

leashmaygoss.2140:

I am proud to kick kittens with a tier B class according to this kittenty tier list.

don’t kick kittens hiba. bad karma

leashmaygoss.2140:

I am proud to kick kittens with a tier B class according to this kittenty tier list.

Tell me, what have you done to help the engineer community?

Everything. I printed my engineer’s face on a poster with rainbows, bacon and naked women as a symbol of glory for all engineers to embrace me as their savior.

leashmaygoss.2140:

Everything. I printed my engineer’s face on a poster with rainbows, bacon and naked women as a symbol of glory for all engineers to embrace me as their savior.

The esports fame is getting to your head Hiba, just because you are rich and get all the girls from being a professional Guild Wars 2 competitor doesn’t mean you are a better person than us non esports players.

Obviously every possible build should not be mentioned. Builds that sucks no matter how skilled you are shouldn’t be listed. Don’t strawman me, that’s not what I said.

You can’t have it both ways. Either there are very few viable builds (in which case it would be easy to helpful to mention them) or there are tons of viable builds (in which case this list is pretty pointless).

Honestly I think it’s somewhere in the middle. Some classes have only 1 real avenue with a few possible modifications, but some have 2-3 builds that play very differently. You shouldn’t list every slight change (different runes, sigil, 1 utility different). However a build with a different play style and team role ought to be mentioned if it is viable.

So tell me, when you put engi on tier B, what build is that you are assuming? P/P conditions? P/S bunker? Rifle burst? I’ve seen them all done well enough to be considered viable, and they are all very different.

As it stands this list teaches players not to think for themselves and just accept the meta as you envision it. Seems like a fancy version of the “nerf X, buff Y” threads but with even less substance.

Now before you get all mad that I said something negative about your efforts, I think it’s a good idea in general. It just lacks the required information to be useful. You can’t just use a concept from a totally different genre of games and expect it to work without any changes. The idea that it would be “too hard” to list the top 2-3 builds for each class (giving about the same total “characters” as many fighting games) sounds lazy. Not that I expect one person to understand every build for every class, but that’s why this is on the forums and not posted on some blog.

Personally I believe that an HGH condi engi played at the skill cap (with a battle sigil, might stacking runes and short fuse) is by far the best build in the entire game. It blows out the competition by a kittening mile.

Oareo.1604:

You shouldn’t list every slight change (different runes, sigil, 1 utility different). However a build with a different play style and team role ought to be mentioned if it is viable.

So tell me, when you put engi on tier B, what build is that you are assuming? P/P conditions? P/S bunker? Rifle burst? I’ve seen them all done well enough to be considered viable, and they are all very different.

As it stands this list teaches players not to think for themselves and just accept the meta as you envision it. Seems like a fancy version of the “nerf X, buff Y” threads but with even less substance.

You sound as if I’m the one making the list. I’m just monitoring it and updating it with the communities perception of each class and how they rank in the current meta.

If you would prefer to create a more intricate list that details classes by multiple builds then I implore you to start a thread in that direction.

As a working adult who has many things on his plate besides GW2 I’m not going to sit here and parse through multiple versions of threads that are in themselves multiple variations. If you really want that, then the ‘create thread’ button is -> That way.

@Defective See I knew I’d hurt your feelings. I’m sorry man. I just want your list (which you started, and update) to be as useful as possible. You set it up based on profession and not build, which I think is a mistake. And the whole point of a thread is so you don’t have to do all the work (although as OP you have to update). What if we (the rest of us) figured out the builds for you? Would you want to update? Or do you think it’s a bad idea no matter how little work it is for you?

Edit: Also you are the one to update, so you ultimately decide. If two people post conflicting opinions you don’t post both. You decide which is “right” and which is “wrong” You are the spearhead of this idea.

@OstrichEggs I remember you from last night, good show on Engi! We can show the world Engi is decent. This is exactly why you can’t write off an entire class based on perceptions/popularity.

Oareo.1604:

@Defective See I knew I’d hurt your feelings. I’m sorry man. I just want your list (which you started, and update) to be as useful as possible. You set it up based on profession and not build, which I think is a mistake. And the whole point of a thread is so you don’t have to do all the work (although as OP you have to update). What if we (the rest of us) figured out the builds for you? Would you want to update? Or do you think it’s a bad idea no matter how little work it is for you?

You didn’t upset me. I’m just trying my best to explain to you why the list is the way it is. Yet you continually attempt to grind my gears.

If you can somehow muster a new method to display a list that the community finds is more useful then I will be all means be happy to update that at on the OP. (Seeing as the point of the list was to provide the community with a tool that ArenaNet themselves won’t provide – class statistics by tournament wins based on build).

The way I originally wanted the list to go was by team comp. But seeing as how limited the number of teams are in the game right now – the list was built off a broader idea:
How good is class A in comparison to the other classes?

The public decided, and I put it on the OP. It’s a very simple concept.

A list by team comp would be useful, but very difficult (I can see why you didn’t do that).

However I fail to see what’s so hard about listing the builds. The builds must be considered to make any sort of judgement. How else can you decide? At the very least, the “best” or “most efficient” build should be listed. Not in detail, but a general hint of the role/weapon set.

In any case where you don’t know what build to list (because there’s more than one) just list them all. There’s no class with more than 3 viable builds (again I’m talking about major differences here).

However, I could see a few lists based on roles. A bunker list, a roamer list and a support list (for example). Perhaps a condi list and a burst list. The point is profession isn’t all you need to know. It’s a very simple concept.

Oareo.1604:

However, I could see a few lists based on roles. A bunker list, a roamer list and a support list (for example). Perhaps a condi list and a burst list. The point is profession isn’t all you need to know. It’s a very simple concept.

Please make a new topic that has a bunker list, a roamer list, a support list, a condi list, and a burst list. We’ll see how fast people will take time out of their day to create that many lists and voice their opinion on them.

I refer to the bolded.

You liked all five of my ideas! Sweet! I’ll get right on that.

I like how you pretend the public “decided” but you ignore any suggestion to the tier list you don’t agree with. Somehow it’s your list and not your list at the same time.

My simple concept was profession isn’t the only thing worth considering, not that a more expansive list would be simpler. That’s the second strawman, so I’m done. We’ve both made our points, so I don’t think there’s anything else to say. This isn’t a discussion anymore. Enjoy your list!

Oareo.1604:

You liked all five of my ideas! Sweet! I’ll get right on that.

I like how you pretend the public “decided” but you ignore any suggestion to the tier list you don’t agree with. Somehow it’s your list and not your list at the same time.

My simple concept was profession isn’t the only thing worth considering, not that a more expansive list would be simpler. That’s the second strawman, so I’m done. We’ve both made our points, so I don’t think there’s anything else to say. This isn’t a discussion anymore. Enjoy your list!

In a discussion such as this there needs to be something keeping the discussion clear and concise.

If people responded with 3-5 different lists based on different things every single time, then making a list in the first place would be incredibly difficult.

I gave people a broad guideline. I didn’t make it so complicated as to alienate potential contributors.

The guideline was simple:
Based on your experiences, what is the order in which classes are the best. Please use tPvP as your primary method of identifying your list.

I specifically didn’t say ‘give me a brain dump of everything on your mind regarding balance in this game and how they relate to classes’.

You ask the impossible, and when I say it can’t be reasonably done, you get your feathers ruffled.

Please make your own complicated list thread so as to keep the concepts separated and on-task.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Personally I believe that an HGH condi engi played at the skill cap (with a battle sigil, might stacking runes and short fuse) is by far the best build in the entire game. It blows out the competition by a kittening mile.

Crippling yourself doesn’t increase skill cap, stop misleading people.

Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?

I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life

that + infinite combat reset

and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all

RaynStargaze.6510:

Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?

I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life

that + infinite combat reset

and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all

It shouldn’t ever happen, but it’s not overpowered. Any competent player can beat a thief who relies on the opener to win a 1v1.

There’s a reason warriors are #8 on this list and not #2 behind thieves, or are you going to say they’re overpowered too?

Larynx.2453:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?

I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life

that + infinite combat reset

and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all

It shouldn’t ever happen, but it’s not overpowered. Any competent player can beat a thief who relies on the opener to win a 1v1.

not if their stunbreaker is on cd they`re not – then they`re dead

RaynStargaze.6510:

Larynx.2453:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?

I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life

that + infinite combat reset

and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all

It shouldn’t ever happen, but it’s not overpowered. Any competent player can beat a thief who relies on the opener to win a 1v1.

not if their stunbreaker is on cd they`re not – then they`re dead

The thief has to use a 45 second CD, a 40 second CD, a possible 45 second signet cooldown, and 6 initiative. I think it’s fair that for that they can do almost kill someone who’s only missing a single cooldown.

Nevermind the fact that you can easily avoid the stun in the first place, and there’s more to it than just “using their stunbreaker”. Again, a thief that relies on this to win is incredibly easy to beat, just like a warrior that relies on bulls rush landing is.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?

I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life

that + infinite combat reset

and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all

List is based on tPvP impression, not 1v1.

Seeing as the pvp in this game revolves entirely around map presence and objective/node control, I’d suggest making two lists: one based on a class’ power to hold an objective and one for the offensive pressure on said objective.
Key factors for one would be boons, healing and general survivability. Two can be measured by mobility, power burst and conditions damage spread.

I think, this will be more suited to account for the “viable” builds each class currently adopts in the meta strategy.

1: Defense

S = Guardian, Elementalist
A = Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger
B = Necro, Thief
C = Warrior

2: Offense

S = Mesmer, Elementalist, Thief
A = Necro, Ranger, Warrior
B = Engineer, Guardian
C =

(You know the builds that are implied…)

You could, of course argue, both take place simultaneously in teamfights and that is certainly true, but I felt the previous lists were lackluster in their ability to accomodate both build variaties.

My opinion:
- Most balance issues come from sustain builds, permanent boons such as regeneration and protection break counters and make less classes viable, since the effects are not unique to each class.
- The map presence the Mesmer class provides ranks them highest and makes roaming strategies nearly obsolete: lack of Warriors and other melee roamers (besides thief).
- I think most people underestimate how strong Necroes are, they are largely abscent because of their lack of build strategies, which makes them easily countered.

Ultima.8673:

i made a graphic of superior classes

You can knock Mesmer down a peg… The destroyed one of our only two long range weapons this patch… Which the community is prolly ecstatic about now they don’t have to worry about facing a Mesmer with a greatsword anymore. :/

Defektive.7283:

RaynStargaze.6510:

Sooo this is the ideal thread for entirely irrelevant balance chitchat?

I got instakilled by a thief (selfbuffed only – no massive might stacks going on) today while in stunlock 1v1 even though i have 2K toughness + protection up + 17K life

that + infinite combat reset

and you seriously put thief in tier B?
admittedly this doesnt happen often – but in the end it really shouldnt happen at all

List is based on tPvP impression, not 1v1.

soooo being able to instagib any class without stun breaker / ivuln. ready every 45 seconds is not relevant in tpvp how?

Defektive.7283:

This is my new personal tier list and it’s more focused on Class Use and the new Map.

Tier S
- Elementalist – Reason: Some loss in bunkering / dps viability (correct me if I’m wrong).

Tier A
+ Mesmer – unchanged.
Ranger – unchanged.
Guardian – They feel more useful as something other than a point defender (orb carrier).

Tier B
=Necro – Lots of bug fixes, but lacks mobility. Great in teamfights.
=Thief – Mobility + orb carrier burst is fantastic on SW.
=Engineer – 100n slight nerf, but I’ve seen some promising up-coming builds.

Tier C
+ Warrior – Reason: mobility + lockdown mechanics are a godsend in the new Map.
———————————————————————————————————

A quote from someone that doesn’t play mes. We were touched… and destroyed… As far as our weapon set is concerned.. Don’t fret if you face a GS Mesmer anymore… It’ll feel like a wet sneeze.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Personally I believe that an HGH condi engi played at the skill cap (with a battle sigil, might stacking runes and short fuse) is by far the best build in the entire game. It blows out the competition by a kittening mile.

Sorry but it is certainly not. Its a good build. But it has weaknesses unlike the ele d/d or s/d builds which have no weaknesses.

Edit: I dont play engi but I would be very annoyed if they nerfed this build. its actually one of the few builds which has shaken a stale meta recently and it is fun to play with and against unlike the ele, which sucks to play vs.

Stof.9584:

Seeing as the pvp in this game revolves entirely around map presence and objective/node control, I’d suggest making two lists: one based on a class’ power to hold an objective and one for the offensive pressure on said objective.
Key factors for one would be boons, healing and general survivability. Two can be measured by mobility, power burst and conditions damage spread.

I think, this will be more suited to account for the “viable” builds each class currently adopts in the meta strategy.

1: Defense

S = Guardian, Elementalist
A = Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger
B = Necro, Thief
C = Warrior

2: Offense

S = Mesmer, Elementalist, Thief
A = Necro, Ranger, Warrior
B = Engineer, Guardian
C =

(You know the builds that are implied…)

You could, of course argue, both take place simultaneously in teamfights and that is certainly true, but I felt the previous lists were lackluster in their ability to accomodate both build variaties.

My opinion:
- Most balance issues come from sustain builds, permanent boons such as regeneration and protection break counters and make less classes viable, since the effects are not unique to each class.
- The map presence the Mesmer class provides ranks them highest and makes roaming strategies nearly obsolete: lack of Warriors and other melee roamers (besides thief).
- I think most people underestimate how strong Necroes are, they are largely abscent because of their lack of build strategies, which makes them easily countered.

I like it. If enough people can reply using this setup I’d be ‘forced’ to adopt it.

Community driven system is community driven.

I find the engineer to be the most annoying class. I think this is not about classes but specs and options, but to indulge in this i will take a personal opinion on the matter judging by things like: the options you have to play your character, defensive CDs, time to kill and get killed, frustration factor and try to summarize it into your selected tier groups.

The tiers as I see them are like this:

Tier S: maybe ele but I am not sure if it’s ppl whining cuz they got pwnd or actual OPness. Imo classes need to work, not get kitten into 1 spec/weapon combo (like thief is as to real sPvP – daggers or bust – no SB is not a killing tool);

Tier A:

• Guardian (amazing build variety, all feel good to play, fun and effective);
• Warrior (build versatility and imba burst DMG, if you fail here, you got no excuse, 50% of all matches I’ve played had warriors on top 3);
• Engie (amazing as to point defense and fun. The knockdowns are OP);

Tier B: Mesmer, Necro, Ranger;

Tier C: Thief (I have almost zero problems to either kill thieves or make them run. A class not hitting me is not hurting me, a class not hurting me can’t take my point).

Again, in GW2 I do not find OPness identifiable in terms that some us may be used to. This is not only about what skills do (as in say WoW), its about weapon combos and wep skills, traits (atleast 3 different builds and that stats comming from them), runes and gear options! It is a much more complex equation the way I see it than simple, preset stats and a skill tree.
As far as my personal fear goes, is in regard to the type of balance that Blizzard always implemented (witch is the fastest, least expensive and time consuming and also imo not giving a kitten about your player base): nerfing skills or a class, rather than buffing other skills or classes into competitiveness (like Diablo 3 where some classes were enforced upon using 2 or more skills on every build or even worse only 2 viable specs).

I have used this example only to make my argument more clear and not to start a discussion upon the actual process. It is as I said, what I personally would HATE to see happen in GW2. Classes need to feel different not like what other games did, eventually leading all classes into having the same skills but with different names (teleports, blinks, leaps, stealth, empowers, etc).

Decide what a class does and go with that.

If I’d have to make a top using the same array of variables (viable specs, time to kill, time to get killed, point holding, dps, fun, frustration factor, etc), I’d see it like this:

1. Hard to decide and i wouldn’t say elemental just like that but I’ll leave him here just to have a 1st place …
2. Guardian
3. Ranger
4. Warrior
5. Mesmer
6. Engie
7. Necro
8. Thief

uzu.7351:

I find the engineer to be the most annoying class. I think this is not about classes but specs and options, but to indulge in this i will take a personal opinion on the matter judging by options to play your character, defensive CDs, time to kill and get killed, frustration factor and try to summarize it into your selected tier groups.

The tiers as I see them are like this:

Tier S: maybe ele but I am not sure if it’s ppl whining cuz they got pwnd or actual OPness. Imo classes need to work, not get kitten into 1 spec/weapon combo (like thief is as to real sPvP – daggers or bust – no SB is not a killing tool);

Tier A: Guardian (amazing build variety, all feel good to play, fun and effective), Warrior (build versatility and imba burst DMG, if you fail here, you got no excuse), Engie (amazing as to point defense and fun. The knockdowns are OP).

Tier B: Mesmer, Necro, Ranger

Tier C: Thief (I have almost zero problems to either kill thieves or make them run. A class not hitting me is not hurting me, a class not hurting me can’t take my point.)

Again, in GW2 I do not find OPness identifiable like some us may be used to. This is not only about what skills do as in say WoW, its about weapon combos and wep skills, traits (so spec), runes and gear options. It is a much more complex equation the way I see it than simple set stats and a skill tree. As far as my personal fear goes is the type of balance that Blizzard always implemented (witch is the fastest, least expensive and time consuming and also imo not giving a kitten about your player base): nerfing skills or a class, rather than buffing other skills or classes into competitiveness (like Diablo 3 where some classes were enforced upon using 2 or more skills on every build or even worse only 2 viable specs). I have used this example only to make my argument more clear and not to start a discussion upon the actual process. It is as I said, what I personally would HATE to see happen in GW2. Classes need to feel different no like other games did that eventually led to all classes having the same skills but with different names (teleports, blinks, leaps, stealth, empowers, etc).

Decide what a class does and go with that.

If I’d have to make a top using the same array of variables (viable specs, time to kill, time to get killed, point holding, dps, fun, frustration factor, etc), I’d see it like this:
1. Hard to decide and i wouldn’t say elemental just like that but I’ll leave him here just to have a 1st place …
2. Guardian
3. Ranger
4. Warrior
5. Mesmer
6. Engie
7. Necro
8. Thief

Obvious mediocre thief player is obvious.

Defektive, you got a good list going, don’t get derailed.

The purpose of this thread is to bring attention to classes that are either lacking a strong build entirely, or whose entire presence relies on only one build / role.

In that, it does work since it highlights both in a simple manner.

Tier S = Elementalist

2. mesmer
3. guardian
4. ranger
5. thief
6. engineer
7. necro

last by miles Warrior

Decrypter.1785:

Tier S = Elementalist

2. mesmer
3. guardian
4. ranger
5. thief
6. engineer
7. necro

last by miles Warrior

I smell warrior

Decrypter.1785:

Tier S = Elementalist

2. mesmer
3. guardian
4. ranger
5. thief
6. engineer
7. necro

last by miles Warrior

+1

I feel so bad and dirty when i play against a warrior that it hurts my soul. Same thing happens in Hot Join when i use a mesmer or a thief. Or with an Ele in spvp.
Right now i just play engi, necro or guardian, they are the only classes that I can play without feeling bad and dirty, except when i play against a warrior, those poor people are cursed by arena.net.

Baldric.6781:

I feel so bad and dirty when i play against a warrior that it hurts my soul. Same thing happens in Hot Join when i use a mesmer or a thief. Or with an Ele in spvp.
Right now i just play engi, necro or guardian, they are the only classes that I can play without feeling bad and dirty, except when i play against a warrior, those poor people are cursed by arena.net.

Read more carefully next time. This List is not about hot join www or PVE.

I’m guessing this is all kittening about Hot Joins? Because i dont have many problems playing on my warrior, in tournys.

Getting zerged down by 5-8 players in hot joins…..yea, you’re gonna have a bad day.

warriors century lasting immobilizes can be a pretty good counter imo to…eles in teamfights!
No im not joking

I can’t believe engineer are considered so underrated. Their builds are perfectly valuable for holding, or dealing damage.

I can kill any elementalist if I do it right, and about mesmers, fight is usually equal.

I sincerely haven’t found any class I can’t beat if I do it right. And also, engi it’s a pretty good team based class. I mean, nades deal same damage to everyone in the area of effect.

I would love to test my engi builds against every other builds of every other classes; to see where it stands, but surely it isn’t in the 6th spot.

I’m talking about purely 1v1 situations, in tourneys mostly, or 1v1 practices with some mates (r 30+)

Arheundel.6451:

I think the problem is that the developers know more than the players who in many cases are incapable of thinking logically, changing your gameplay “may” affect the way you see things…just maybe.
I stated many times before..if you were expecting the ele to be nerfed to the ground ..actually underneath the ground…you’d be sorry in the end, regardless of the nerfs Anet won’t make the profession completely unplayable just to please whiners on the forum .
Now go out there and enjoy the new content ^^

*cough staff ele *cough

LordByron.8369:

Arheundel.6451:

I think the problem is that the developers know more than the players who in many cases are incapable of thinking logically, changing your gameplay “may” affect the way you see things…just maybe.
I stated many times before..if you were expecting the ele to be nerfed to the ground ..actually underneath the ground…you’d be sorry in the end, regardless of the nerfs Anet won’t make the profession completely unplayable just to please whiners on the forum .
Now go out there and enjoy the new content ^^

*cough staff ele *cough

Nah staff is fine I’d say, sure skills like : gust-shockwave and unsteady ground need a small buff ( the first two need to have the number of hitboxes increased and the last one needs to have the cripple effect applied once the opponent step on it).

New patch is out. How does everyone feel? Express yourself with a list!

God Tier:
Ele

S(uper) Tier:
Guardian/Mesmer/Engi

A(lright) Tier:
Ranger/Necro

B(ad) Tier:
Thief

I’m not going to list Warrior on purpose, i don’t think i have to explain why.

Note that i consider each tier class to be able to pull out something, meaning that while i consider thieves to be generally weak, you can still get some results playing it. Warrior can aswell but i honestly don’t see the point of torturing yourself playing one at this point.

My list:
S = Elementalist
A = Guardian/mesmer/engie
B = ranger/thief/necro
C = none
D = none
E =none
F= Warrior.

I don’t think I really have to explain it too much….