Guild Wars 2

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

You don’t have the timezone coverage to beat them all week, but for reset day here’s what I can think of:

They like to move in huge zergs, which gives them an advantage in open field fights but makes it very hard to deal with being hit in lots of places at once.

Always keep stunbreakers and similar escape skills ready – they use a lot of invisibility to try to wipe people with a suckerpunch. You can avoid that by blinking out of the way, using endure pain at the right time etc.

Spread out to minimize the effectiveness of AoE, and always try to slow/pull people so the group leaves them behind.

Try to have one person with an arrow cart in every tower, that can delay a capture for a while and get warning so you have a good chance of wiping them from behind.

Flip camps with 2-3 people as much as possible, you can stop their defences getting upgraded and make it harder for them to build siege. Plus (I was on EB at reset, not sure if this applies in borderlands) they often send the whole zerg to deal with it, which takes pressure off the rest of the map.

Not sure if this will work again, but let them have stonemist then starve them of supply. Last reset, they put everything they could into holding it while we took their keep, towers and camps.

Hello,

Do you mean beating Kain by score or killing our Kain zergs?

By Score
Kain has close to a 24/7 coverage much like the T2/T1 servers. You’ll have to get NA, Oceanic & EU guilds to join the server. This is accomplished by politics, diplomacy and negotiations. It’s a meta-game in itself.

By killing Kain zergs
The average Kain is not in full exotics, both armor and accessories. Even if it’s full exotics, 70-80% are in beserker gear. Most are low health at <15k. Most are not group traited (eg 70tough guardian group utility etc)

Your server will have to form zerg busting group of about 10-15+, with good group mix of guardian, warrior, mesmer, thieves, etc. All group members need to purchase food and oil/stone for full effectiveness. However, the key is training, the zerg busters will need to run about 4-6hrs a day practicing group movement like feints, flanks, use of mesmer portals and veils etc. Group members need to have group utility traited for maximum effectiveness.

The key to breaking zergs is to catch them in the open field while on transit. So a network of scouts need to be setup, to report movement. That is key.

Good hunting,
FW

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

Also never try to flip camps alone because, apparently, kaineng has enough people that there seems to always be at least 1 crazy guy defending camp and relying on the additional firepower of the npcs. It’s frightening, really.

Fannwong.3059:

Hello,

Do you mean beating Kain by score or killing our Kain zergs?

By Score
Kain has close to a 24/7 coverage much like the T2/T1 servers. You’ll have to get NA, Oceanic & EU guilds to join the server. This is accomplished by politics, diplomacy and negotiations. It’s a meta-game in itself.

By killing Kain zergs
The average Kain is not in full exotics, both armor and accessories. Even if it’s full exotics, 70-80% are in beserker gear. Most are low health at <15k. Most are not group traited (eg 70tough guardian group utility etc)

Your server will have to form zerg busting group of about 10-15+, with good group mix of guardian, warrior, mesmer, thieves, etc. All group members need to purchase food and oil/stone for full effectiveness. However, the key is training, the zerg busters will need to run about 4-6hrs a day practicing group movement like feints, flanks, use of mesmer portals and veils etc. Group members need to have group utility traited for maximum effectiveness.

The key to breaking zergs is to catch them in the open field while on transit. So a network of scouts need to be setup, to report movement. That is key.

Good hunting,
FW

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

lol 4-6 hrs…..dude kain zergs fall over, it really is entertaining…i mean most of them are joke level bad.

anyway, the trick to beating kain:
having the ability to wvwvw while sleeping in real life, which sadly most of us lack.

Yeah honestly im sorry kain, but you guys are going to need a lot better strats than just ‘’send out the response zerg!!’’ if you want to get passed t3

Zephyrus.9680:

I’ll post a video tomorrow so you or anyone else can draw their own conclusion on whether its bots or just braindead. It’s an almost pure WM zerg trying to take a camp from what starts at around 6 players and gradually builds up over 5+ minutes. All they need to do is split up and clear the circle but they can’t do it. They can’t even stop us from ressing the supervisor over and over. They keep running through like a blind bull ignoring everything except what’s in front of them and the only reason anyone’s in front of them is because the constant stealth culling abuse.

Ultimately they leave for no apparent reason while still heavily outnumbering us and still completely ignoring anyone who attack them from the side or behind while they’re leaving. If you think that’s organized and ‘being good at WvW’ I want to know who brainwashed you… Actually I’m surprised no one else has posted videos like this since I’m sure we have lots of clips like it.

For anyone on Maguuma or DB, try attacking their zergball from the sides or behind. The only people who will ‘see’ you are randoms tagging along with the zerg.

@the rest of Kaineng, nothing against your server as a whole. You have a whole lot of people and good coverage but almost no roaming presense and a very suspicious guild.

Other observations I made during my short time fighting WM in EB.

1. I have only seen WM zombie behaviour in Eternal Battleground. I did not see it in the WM members that were in the various border battlegrounds. Why?

2. When zombie WM members take damage, I do not ever remember seeing them dodge the damage. They would take the brunt of the damage and keep following the leader.

3. When I apply condition to zombie WM members, I don’t notice them cleansing condition. I would lay a chill mark in their zerg. The 5 member who are chilled just keep doing the follow the leader. I did not notice any attempt at dodging or cleansing condition.

4. I have not seen zombie WM standing on the wall defending or doing anything more complex then follow the leader, attack a location, attack on the move.

5. I have not seen zombie WM members engage in range standoff combat.

6. I have not seen zombie WM members after attacking a location be able to spread and attack random targets. If they don’t kill off enough players on the initial attack and are getting pressured, I see them ball up and run.

Anyone see this WM zombie group be able to do complex tasks beside attack a location, ball up and run?

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

This post is so full of fail. For the first two ‘cases’, it’s called being good players and understanding how to play WvW. Why would members of the zerg stop to deal with one member, who is hardly going to do anything to them at all if ignored? The guild claim NPC is much more important of a target to take down in lords room than any players, and if people stop to attack the one fool who is trying to distract the enemy force, it slows down the capture. Focused fire is the best fire.

In the first case, I chased them up to the lord room. I started to attack them when they were sitting in the lord room. It would not take long to kill me with 30 guys before charging off. I wasn’t even trying to dodge their zerg. I was like “come at me bro.” Instead they just charged off and I did mess up their zerg. I was able to chill 5 guys and agro 5 others who actually broke off to attack me. I reduced their firepower by 1/3. I have done kamikazee run against zergs before and I don’t generally get left alone like the WM zombie guys.

Yeah id like to ad my experience with WM:
Our guild was defending ogrewatch after capturing our third of EB back, and what must of been the whole of WM + others (30-35 at a guess) converged on the small outcrop of rock just outside and built 3 catas. Knowing that we wouldnt have a whole lot of time before our walls fell i suggested that our guild group of about 15 rush their catas and destroy them in a suicide rush to buy our main zerg time to arrive.
So we rush them, and to our surprise, instead of fighting us and ripping us down with their superior numbers, they break and try to flank to the left in a merry game of follow the leader all the while our small group is tearing into them.
They leave into the orge village with about 20 KIA and not even really having put up a fight at all..

Ninein.4782:

Zephyrus.9680:

I’ll post a video tomorrow so you or anyone else can draw their own conclusion on whether its bots or just braindead. It’s an almost pure WM zerg trying to take a camp from what starts at around 6 players and gradually builds up over 5+ minutes. All they need to do is split up and clear the circle but they can’t do it. They can’t even stop us from ressing the supervisor over and over. They keep running through like a blind bull ignoring everything except what’s in front of them and the only reason anyone’s in front of them is because the constant stealth culling abuse.

Ultimately they leave for no apparent reason while still heavily outnumbering us and still completely ignoring anyone who attack them from the side or behind while they’re leaving. If you think that’s organized and ‘being good at WvW’ I want to know who brainwashed you… Actually I’m surprised no one else has posted videos like this since I’m sure we have lots of clips like it.

For anyone on Maguuma or DB, try attacking their zergball from the sides or behind. The only people who will ‘see’ you are randoms tagging along with the zerg.

@the rest of Kaineng, nothing against your server as a whole. You have a whole lot of people and good coverage but almost no roaming presense and a very suspicious guild.

Other observations I made during my short time fighting WM in EB.

1. I have only seen WM zombie behaviour in Eternal Battleground. I did not see it in the WM members that were in the various border battlegrounds. Why?

2. When zombie WM members take damage, I do not ever remember seeing them dodge the damage. They would take the brunt of the damage and keep following the leader.

3. When I apply condition to zombie WM members, I don’t notice them cleansing condition. I would lay a chill mark in their zerg. The 5 member who are chilled just keep doing the follow the leader. I did not notice any attempt at dodging or cleansing condition.

4. I have not seen zombie WM standing on the wall defending or doing anything more complex then follow the leader, attack a location, attack on the move.

5. I have not seen zombie WM members engage in range standoff combat.

6. I have not seen zombie WM members after attacking a location be able to spread and attack random targets. If they don’t kill off enough players on the initial attack and are getting pressured, I see them ball up and run.

Anyone see this WM zombie group be able to do complex tasks beside attack a location, ball up and run?

So what I get from this is WM is horribad?
1+1 = 2
2+2 = 4
WM is horribad = Part of the leading team in points.
By this standard that makes the opposing teams worse than WM kitten.

I don’t understand this logic. If they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

In my opinion they have been good sports and have been letting the scores do the talking. Let the WMsuxx propaganda go already and have fun in WvWvW.

Brangien.7462:

Ninein.4782:

Zephyrus.9680:

I’ll post a video tomorrow so you or anyone else can draw their own conclusion on whether its bots or just braindead. It’s an almost pure WM zerg trying to take a camp from what starts at around 6 players and gradually builds up over 5+ minutes. All they need to do is split up and clear the circle but they can’t do it. They can’t even stop us from ressing the supervisor over and over. They keep running through like a blind bull ignoring everything except what’s in front of them and the only reason anyone’s in front of them is because the constant stealth culling abuse.

Ultimately they leave for no apparent reason while still heavily outnumbering us and still completely ignoring anyone who attack them from the side or behind while they’re leaving. If you think that’s organized and ‘being good at WvW’ I want to know who brainwashed you… Actually I’m surprised no one else has posted videos like this since I’m sure we have lots of clips like it.

For anyone on Maguuma or DB, try attacking their zergball from the sides or behind. The only people who will ‘see’ you are randoms tagging along with the zerg.

@the rest of Kaineng, nothing against your server as a whole. You have a whole lot of people and good coverage but almost no roaming presense and a very suspicious guild.

Other observations I made during my short time fighting WM in EB.

1. I have only seen WM zombie behaviour in Eternal Battleground. I did not see it in the WM members that were in the various border battlegrounds. Why?

2. When zombie WM members take damage, I do not ever remember seeing them dodge the damage. They would take the brunt of the damage and keep following the leader.

3. When I apply condition to zombie WM members, I don’t notice them cleansing condition. I would lay a chill mark in their zerg. The 5 member who are chilled just keep doing the follow the leader. I did not notice any attempt at dodging or cleansing condition.

4. I have not seen zombie WM standing on the wall defending or doing anything more complex then follow the leader, attack a location, attack on the move.

5. I have not seen zombie WM members engage in range standoff combat.

6. I have not seen zombie WM members after attacking a location be able to spread and attack random targets. If they don’t kill off enough players on the initial attack and are getting pressured, I see them ball up and run.

Anyone see this WM zombie group be able to do complex tasks beside attack a location, ball up and run?

So what I get from this is WM is horribad?
1+1 = 2
2+2 = 4
WM is horribad = Part of the leading team in points.
By this standard that makes the opposing teams worse than WM kitten.

I don’t understand this logic. If they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

In my opinion they have been good sports and have been letting the scores do the talking. Let the WMsuxx propaganda go already and have fun in WvWvW.

because of better coverage? how hard is this to understand?

Funny that people would rather be seen as getting destroyed by bots than by actual players. Sad day.

Ninein.4782:

Brangien.7462:

So what I get from this is WM is horribad?
1+1 = 2
2+2 = 4
WM is horribad = Part of the leading team in points.
By this standard that makes the opposing teams worse than WM kitten.

I don’t understand this logic. If they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

In my opinion they have been good sports and have been letting the scores do the talking. Let the WMsuxx propaganda go already and have fun in WvWvW.

I’m just describing my observation that some members of WM may be zombies. I don’t know who ate their brains but I feel sad for them. I am just looking out for Kaineng zerglings. I don’t want them to get bitten and turn into zombies.

To be fair, most of WM can’t even speak english. So the based on your observation this is simply because they cannot understand the game mechanics nearly as well as others.

also, Jang has cooties. Jarvan too.

WM is assigned on EB for the week, they are so bad the whole map is green all the time.

He is describing what he’s seen from one guild tag. It’s just funny that’s the guild that RE and others followed because of some hype.

as like all of you HATERS said… we have LOTS of people in our server and you would think EVERY Friday RESET all WvW Focused Guilds are able to get in altogether on SAME bl but unfortunately it is NOT the case… we are forced to go to other borderlands SEPARATELY than the one that was planned the day/week before and have to wait for 3-6 hour queues prolly more or most likely the next day just so we can run with our own guildies/group… also, WE do NOT have a dedicated voice comm for Kaineng YET, at least not that I know of… so please excuse us for being soooo TERRIBAD with execution and coordination but then again this is just another EXCUSE that im making up for our lack of WvW skills, knowledge and abilities

Brangien.7462:

To be fair, most of WM can’t even speak english. So the based on your observation this is simply because they cannot understand the game mechanics nearly as well as others.

also, Jang has cooties. Jarvan too.

I am going to assume you are being tongue in cheek here? I hope…
Someone’s ability to speak English does not equate an inability to comprehend maths and the mechanics of this game. In fact, I believe that WM has been around since GW1 and was more than a little talented then, as they are now. Simply because a group of people approach WvW in a different manner than most are accustomed to does not mean they ‘cannot understand the game mechanics’. Being completely focused on an objective that actually has a point value attached to it, rather than fighting each and every skirmish group that comes along seems like they understand exactly what the game is.

Disparaging their Guild’s ability to comprehend the game, based on their ability to speak your country’s language is… well, let’s just say it’s very rude and presumptuous.

Silke.1695:

Brangien.7462:

To be fair, most of WM can’t even speak english. So the based on your observation this is simply because they cannot understand the game mechanics nearly as well as others.

also, Jang has cooties. Jarvan too.

I am going to assume you are being tongue in cheek here? I hope…
Someone’s ability to speak English does not equate an inability to comprehend maths and the mechanics of this game. In fact, I believe that WM has been around since GW1 and was more than a little talented then, as they are now. Simply because a group of people approach WvW in a different manner than most are accustomed to does not mean they ‘cannot understand the game mechanics’. Being completely focused on an objective that actually has a point value attached to it, rather than fighting each and every skirmish group that comes along seems like they understand exactly what the game is.

Disparaging their Guild’s ability to comprehend the game, based on their ability to speak your country’s language is… well, let’s just say it’s very rude and presumptuous.

I’m not attacking WM in that post. In fact I like running around with them, even help on the side lines by killing yaks and capping camps. Rude and presumptuous, yes. I cannot deny that.

This is just how it is, if I were to play a game that had a language that was completely foreign to me, Goooogle translate can only take me so far even with a mentor explaining every single skill/class/incorrect skill description/bugged skills.

That being said, I never said they have bad players. Simply a language barrier which is an undeniable handicap for some. Disregarding that, the feats of capping 70%+ of EB is an amazing thing in itself.

So to say that I hold all their players with little worth is incorrect. Its undeniable that they are a T1 worthy guild. Eternal Battle Grounds speaks for itself.

lady lisz.7849:

as like all of you HATERS said… we have LOTS of people in our server and you would think EVERY Friday RESET all WvW Focused Guilds are able to get in altogether on SAME bl but unfortunately it is NOT the case… we are forced to go to other borderlands SEPARATELY than the one that was planned the day/week before and have to wait for 3-6 hour queues prolly more or most likely the next day just so we can run with our own guildies/group… also, WE do NOT have a dedicated voice comm for Kaineng YET, at least not that I know of… so please excuse us for being soooo TERRIBAD with execution and coordination but then again this is just another EXCUSE that im making up for our lack of WvW skills, knowledge and abilities

Save that excuse for people who will listen to cool stories. Because DB and Maguuma had queues and had the same problem.

Kain is pretty bad at strategy. It seems to be point n click lol.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

lady lisz.7849:

as like all of you HATERS said… we have LOTS of people in our server and you would think EVERY Friday RESET all WvW Focused Guilds are able to get in altogether on SAME bl but unfortunately it is NOT the case… we are forced to go to other borderlands SEPARATELY than the one that was planned the day/week before and have to wait for 3-6 hour queues prolly more or most likely the next day just so we can run with our own guildies/group… also, WE do NOT have a dedicated voice comm for Kaineng YET, at least not that I know of… so please excuse us for being soooo TERRIBAD with execution and coordination but then again this is just another EXCUSE that im making up for our lack of WvW skills, knowledge and abilities

Save that excuse for people who will listen to cool stories. Because DB and Maguuma had queues and had the same problem.

Kain is pretty bad at strategy. It seems to be point n click lol.

YUP as you SAID you guys have SAME problem AS ours, and we KAIN have bad strategy and ALL point and click … guess we cant be as worse as you guys then ;P

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

Hardly, but if you encounter WM, avoid them at all cost. According to someone in Maguuma has stated, just sneak around WM and flip any structures that they left.

But if your purpose is to test if they are botting or not, then just face them head on.

Brangien.7462:

Silke.1695:

Brangien.7462:

To be fair, most of WM can’t even speak english. So the based on your observation this is simply because they cannot understand the game mechanics nearly as well as others.

also, Jang has cooties. Jarvan too.

I am going to assume you are being tongue in cheek here? I hope…
Someone’s ability to speak English does not equate an inability to comprehend maths and the mechanics of this game. In fact, I believe that WM has been around since GW1 and was more than a little talented then, as they are now. Simply because a group of people approach WvW in a different manner than most are accustomed to does not mean they ‘cannot understand the game mechanics’. Being completely focused on an objective that actually has a point value attached to it, rather than fighting each and every skirmish group that comes along seems like they understand exactly what the game is.

Disparaging their Guild’s ability to comprehend the game, based on their ability to speak your country’s language is… well, let’s just say it’s very rude and presumptuous.

I’m not attacking WM in that post. In fact I like running around with them, even help on the side lines by killing yaks and capping camps. Rude and presumptuous, yes. I cannot deny that.

This is just how it is, if I were to play a game that had a language that was completely foreign to me, Goooogle translate can only take me so far even with a mentor explaining every single skill/class/incorrect skill description/bugged skills.

That being said, I never said they have bad players. Simply a language barrier which is an undeniable handicap for some. Disregarding that, the feats of capping 70%+ of EB is an amazing thing in itself.

So to say that I hold all their players with little worth is incorrect. Its undeniable that they are a T1 worthy guild. Eternal Battle Grounds speaks for itself.

It’s like saying the Korean doesn’t know how to play Terran in Starcraft. And I doubt Starcraft has Korean as its official language. And I understand your good intention

On topic, there is a lot of love/hate for Kaineng and its guilds. And I think it is rather destructive than constructive. The fact that this is not a happy even match only means Kaineng will keep growing and this place is not for us. Anything like “Kaineng will be doomed in fight with equal numbers”, or “this guild bots, that guild gloats” seems childish and jealous to me. Why not change the topic into something else? Like Kaineng’s weakness or tip to flip towers under our skin so that both us and our future opponents can learn. Just my one cent.

wads.5730:

Brangien.7462:

Ninein.4782:

Zephyrus.9680:

I’ll post a video tomorrow so you or anyone else can draw their own conclusion on whether its bots or just braindead. It’s an almost pure WM zerg trying to take a camp from what starts at around 6 players and gradually builds up over 5+ minutes. All they need to do is split up and clear the circle but they can’t do it. They can’t even stop us from ressing the supervisor over and over. They keep running through like a blind bull ignoring everything except what’s in front of them and the only reason anyone’s in front of them is because the constant stealth culling abuse.

Ultimately they leave for no apparent reason while still heavily outnumbering us and still completely ignoring anyone who attack them from the side or behind while they’re leaving. If you think that’s organized and ‘being good at WvW’ I want to know who brainwashed you… Actually I’m surprised no one else has posted videos like this since I’m sure we have lots of clips like it.

For anyone on Maguuma or DB, try attacking their zergball from the sides or behind. The only people who will ‘see’ you are randoms tagging along with the zerg.

@the rest of Kaineng, nothing against your server as a whole. You have a whole lot of people and good coverage but almost no roaming presense and a very suspicious guild.

Other observations I made during my short time fighting WM in EB.

1. I have only seen WM zombie behaviour in Eternal Battleground. I did not see it in the WM members that were in the various border battlegrounds. Why?

2. When zombie WM members take damage, I do not ever remember seeing them dodge the damage. They would take the brunt of the damage and keep following the leader.

3. When I apply condition to zombie WM members, I don’t notice them cleansing condition. I would lay a chill mark in their zerg. The 5 member who are chilled just keep doing the follow the leader. I did not notice any attempt at dodging or cleansing condition.

4. I have not seen zombie WM standing on the wall defending or doing anything more complex then follow the leader, attack a location, attack on the move.

5. I have not seen zombie WM members engage in range standoff combat.

6. I have not seen zombie WM members after attacking a location be able to spread and attack random targets. If they don’t kill off enough players on the initial attack and are getting pressured, I see them ball up and run.

Anyone see this WM zombie group be able to do complex tasks beside attack a location, ball up and run?

So what I get from this is WM is horribad?
1+1 = 2
2+2 = 4
WM is horribad = Part of the leading team in points.
By this standard that makes the opposing teams worse than WM kitten.

I don’t understand this logic. If they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

In my opinion they have been good sports and have been letting the scores do the talking. Let the WMsuxx propaganda go already and have fun in WvWvW.

because of better coverage? how hard is this to understand?

How can a guild have a better coverage than any other guilds, to say they have to deal with both DB and Maguuma at the same time. Please wake up!

Iris Ng.9845:

wads.5730:

Brangien.7462:

Ninein.4782:

Zephyrus.9680:

I’ll post a video tomorrow so you or anyone else can draw their own conclusion on whether its bots or just braindead. It’s an almost pure WM zerg trying to take a camp from what starts at around 6 players and gradually builds up over 5+ minutes. All they need to do is split up and clear the circle but they can’t do it. They can’t even stop us from ressing the supervisor over and over. They keep running through like a blind bull ignoring everything except what’s in front of them and the only reason anyone’s in front of them is because the constant stealth culling abuse.

Ultimately they leave for no apparent reason while still heavily outnumbering us and still completely ignoring anyone who attack them from the side or behind while they’re leaving. If you think that’s organized and ‘being good at WvW’ I want to know who brainwashed you… Actually I’m surprised no one else has posted videos like this since I’m sure we have lots of clips like it.

For anyone on Maguuma or DB, try attacking their zergball from the sides or behind. The only people who will ‘see’ you are randoms tagging along with the zerg.

@the rest of Kaineng, nothing against your server as a whole. You have a whole lot of people and good coverage but almost no roaming presense and a very suspicious guild.

Other observations I made during my short time fighting WM in EB.

1. I have only seen WM zombie behaviour in Eternal Battleground. I did not see it in the WM members that were in the various border battlegrounds. Why?

2. When zombie WM members take damage, I do not ever remember seeing them dodge the damage. They would take the brunt of the damage and keep following the leader.

3. When I apply condition to zombie WM members, I don’t notice them cleansing condition. I would lay a chill mark in their zerg. The 5 member who are chilled just keep doing the follow the leader. I did not notice any attempt at dodging or cleansing condition.

4. I have not seen zombie WM standing on the wall defending or doing anything more complex then follow the leader, attack a location, attack on the move.

5. I have not seen zombie WM members engage in range standoff combat.

6. I have not seen zombie WM members after attacking a location be able to spread and attack random targets. If they don’t kill off enough players on the initial attack and are getting pressured, I see them ball up and run.

Anyone see this WM zombie group be able to do complex tasks beside attack a location, ball up and run?

So what I get from this is WM is horribad?
1+1 = 2
2+2 = 4
WM is horribad = Part of the leading team in points.
By this standard that makes the opposing teams worse than WM kitten.

I don’t understand this logic. If they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

In my opinion they have been good sports and have been letting the scores do the talking. Let the WMsuxx propaganda go already and have fun in WvWvW.

because of better coverage? how hard is this to understand?

How can a guild have a better coverage than any other guilds, to say they have to deal with both DB and Maguuma at the same time. Please wake up!

um….do you know what coverage means. Mag as a server isn’t on in oceanic, and DBs oceanic is significantly smaller then kains. In the oceanic your dealing with neither mag or db essentially, let alone both. Its probably not the fact that he needs to wake up….its more along the lines of hes probably at work(see what i did there).

Iris Ng.9845:

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

Hardly, but if you encounter WM, avoid them at all cost. According to someone in Maguuma has stated, just sneak around WM and flip any structures that they left.

But if your purpose is to test if they are botting or not, then just face them head on.

They’re definitely beatable head on, my guild posted a video (or maybe more than one, not sure) of it being done in the original thread.

I am sorry you are getting beat down in a way you do not approve of.

You are not the battle we are looking for, but this is good practice because we do have a lot to learn.

Thank you for helping us become the champions I know we can all be, every day is a learning experience and an opportunity to grow stronger.

Mostly thank you for continuing to fight.

Now, let’s re-cap the question:

Brangien.7462: I don’t understand this logic. If (WM) they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

wads.5730: because of better coverage? how hard is this to understand?

Me: Doesn’t he imply that WM has better coverage than other two servers? They do station in EB around the clock, but the two worlds cannot stop a single guild capping the whole map and blame for coverage is a bit irrational. I’ve never seen them (WM) at any moment more than 40 ppl to outnumber both servers. If you say Kaineng has better coverage in general, I agree, then argument about WM is invalid. We all need to wake up, no?

Iris Ng.9845:

Me: Doesn’t he imply that WM has better coverage than other two servers? They do station in EB around the clock, but the two worlds cannot stop a single guild capping the whole map and blame for coverage is a bit irrational. I’ve never seen them (WM) at any moment more than 40 ppl to outnumber both servers. If you say Kaineng has better coverage in general, I agree, then argument about WM is invalid. We all need to wake up, no?

Didn’t fully understand all of the things you’re saying, but I believe that you don’t understand some of the reality of the situation:

It is my understanding that at the time that WM is playing, in that one guild they have 3-4 times more players than number of players than the entire Maguuma server is able to field.

Iris Ng.9845:

Now, let’s re-cap the question:

Brangien.7462: I don’t understand this logic. If (WM) they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

wads.5730: because of better coverage? how hard is this to understand?

Me: Doesn’t he imply that WM has better coverage than other two servers? They do station in EB around the clock, but the two worlds cannot stop a single guild capping the whole map and blame for coverage is a bit irrational. I’ve never seen them (WM) at any moment more than 40 ppl to outnumber both servers. If you say Kaineng has better coverage in general, I agree, then argument about WM is invalid. We all need to wake up, no?

Um WM is not only guild on EB. I have seen several different Kain Zergs in EB even when totally owning the map. So not sure what confusion of owning all EB has to do with WM and how they play. Their 30ish zerg is not one who took/hold map for them. because they don’t really defend they just zergball it. It is the 40+ other people doing actually work of defending.

So why are you trying to imply WM is only ones doing anything in EB from Kain server?

I understand that reality well. Let’s say WM focus on Mag and outnumbers you guys. That would mean they leave somewhere open => DB could have recapped their towers and keep. WM cannot outnumber both DB and Mag at the same time. It doesn’t apply only to oceanic time but in NA prime time too. Unless the majority of players live in far West Coast and Hawaii and are active at so later time that I couldn’t observe.

My point is: coverage is an attribute to server, not a single guild. So stop targeting them.

Moddo.7105:

Iris Ng.9845:

Now, let’s re-cap the question:

Brangien.7462: I don’t understand this logic. If (WM) they’re so bad, how is it that they’re holding the majority of their stationed map?

wads.5730: because of better coverage? how hard is this to understand?

Me: Doesn’t he imply that WM has better coverage than other two servers? They do station in EB around the clock, but the two worlds cannot stop a single guild capping the whole map and blame for coverage is a bit irrational. I’ve never seen them (WM) at any moment more than 40 ppl to outnumber both servers. If you say Kaineng has better coverage in general, I agree, then argument about WM is invalid. We all need to wake up, no?

Um WM is not only guild on EB. I have seen several different Kain Zergs in EB even when totally owning the map. So not sure what confusion of owning all EB has to do with WM and how they play. Their 30ish zerg is not one who took/hold map for them. because they don’t really defend they just zergball it. It is the 40+ other people doing actually work of defending.

So why are you trying to imply WM is only ones doing anything in EB from Kain server?

Now I agree that WM is not the only guild in EB. That’s what I want to point out. Why the thought of coverage has to associate with WM? and I didn’t imply anything. I just draw speculation from the post I mentioned.

Saying that they don’t defend is a little understatement. They give DB a very hard time to claim back their keep, every day.

Don’t know that it’s true, but I believe that the assumption is that without WM, the coverage during their time zone would be more even.

Why do they say we are so bad… it is just the luck of the draw… if they outnumber you they normally kill you… I get killed plenty of times. Do I cry about it? no… it is a game… death is of little consequence in GW2 and that is why I love WvW or pvp in this game. I also think the other servers have less ppl because everyone is not encouraging their pve players to come out and play. Rewards are not great in WvW but we have a ton of fun zerging… when we are running alone we get ganked plenty… and all I can do is either fight back or just die, have a fake smile about it and go back to spawn. The important thing is “Have fun!!!”

I believe seeing WM in EB from when I wake up to when I go to bed and beyond. I don’t think they have a specific time zone to be compared with others. They are but one guild. They used to have more people in SBI, not many now, tbh.

Huge.5891:

I noticed something very odd about the WM zerg in EBG last night. There was a thief infront of the zerg and the whole group of 40+ WM players followed his moves exactly. And I mean exactly. He did the little jump puzzle to get the vista at the Magumma Vally Keep and then fell off the wall next to it. The entire zerg, every single one of them, jumped up to the vista, jumped over to the wall, and fell off in the same spot he did. Just makes you look twice when you see that. It looked strange.

30 minutes after that, we were in SM, wiped by WM and I stayed down in the castle just because it was so interesting watching their zerg. When our group was wiped, the WM zerg went to the supply depot and repaired a reinforced gate from zero to full in about 10 seconds, moving all in one big ball no bigger than a combo field, all 40 of them. I have never seen that. No one jumping, no one dodge rolling, no one out of formation, no individual movements at all, no one lagging behind, literally perfect.

Call it what you want, I don’t know what they are doing.. But it is definitely interesting, and makes you look twice. I just have to laugh it is so odd.

It is interesting and actually takes a lot of training. Two big reasons why you need to stack into a ball are that firstly enemy aoes are limited to 5 targets. Secondly friendly buffs are also limited.
Being in a ball means auto-revive, as soon as a friendly sees the revive option and do not forget the benefits of chained-regen. The need to keep stacked tightly however does restrict movement. Also, the usual solo build would not work quite well in group movements, so it requires some willingness on part of the single player to sacrifice solo ability. Furthermore, many skills are reserved for group use, usually called by the commander, or party leader for instance portals, TW, buffs, aoes, reflect walls, etc.
What I’m trying to say is, group battle would be different from large scale chaotic skirmishes, which are just large numbers of solo players battling it out. Also most groups would not share critical information such as set builds, choice of combos, group composition, set maneuvers etc, keeping most other people in the dark, partially explaining why it seems so interesting.

The more I see people describe WM, I’m seeing it more as multiboxing. Not botting.

I’ve read that multiboxing is very difficult in GW2 due to movement latency issues. If you issue identical movement commands to two different account, the game’s random latency causes the second account to eventually be unsynced. How these guys are able to keep everyone on course is mystifying.

I have been working on two theories…

Theory 1: The players from WM are actually an alien species that communicates via a “hive” mind.

or…

Theory 2: They have a dedicated driver that runs the show. They keep that driver targetted. They listen to that driver’s instructions and they don’t get distracted by squirrels.

I’m leaning towards Theory 1 at the moment.

OMG… just lock out all threads from this match up and give mag’s a trophy. Someone, anyone … seriously. It’s there thing, the got it all on ‘co-ordinated’ lock down and any one who voices data or facts will just be brushed off. As expected.

With so many ‘how bad ’x’ is or ‘y’ is … you would think I would be able to find a ‘real’ suggestion… or something across a few hundred posts. Nothing, not a darn cookie … just more of the same which we got locked for before, and I believe might be able to get ‘3’ threads locked. It’s gotta be a forum record of sorts, so give a trophy where a trophy is due … I had hoped the conversations could have flipped … a touch. Slightly? Maybe? I guess that makes 3 servers who can all be unimpressed. Friday cannot come sooner.

On a less insulting note, I actually think that TL is really good. I was leading Mag BL last night when we took back our West Keep, East Keep, then West Keep again, and you guys reminded me of BT or AoN, except you knew how to use siege, and weren’t quite as good at open field combat.

There’s no doubt in my mind that TL is the best of Kaineng, with WM following. The only reason I don’t have WM as the best is that while I admire their dedication and discipline, I fundamentally disagree with the way they fight, and think they’re not using all of their discipline to the fullest extent.

sinfulape.6301:

It is interesting and actually takes a lot of training. Two big reasons why you need to stack into a ball are that firstly enemy aoes are limited to 5 targets. Secondly friendly buffs are also limited.
Being in a ball means auto-revive, as soon as a friendly sees the revive option and do not forget the benefits of chained-regen. The need to keep stacked tightly however does restrict movement. Also, the usual solo build would not work quite well in group movements, so it requires some willingness on part of the single player to sacrifice solo ability. Furthermore, many skills are reserved for group use, usually called by the commander, or party leader for instance portals, TW, buffs, aoes, reflect walls, etc.
What I’m trying to say is, group battle would be different from large scale chaotic skirmishes, which are just large numbers of solo players battling it out. Also most groups would not share critical information such as set builds, choice of combos, group composition, set maneuvers etc, keeping most other people in the dark, partially explaining why it seems so interesting.

I think that’s a good explanation and there is a method to the madness. I was not particularly impressed with WM either at the small scale level in their last matchup, and I regrettably did not get to see any of their bigger actions firsthand. But what they are going for is not small scale effectiveness or open field combat, but achieving macro level successes and not getting distracted by things that don’t matter on the scoreboard. And judging by that measure, they are very successful. I think a lot of people still fail to get what wins in WvW.

With the disconnect here, we could even go as far as saying its a cultural level difference in approach. Individualism vs Collectivism.

Hexin.5603:

OMG… just lock out all threads from this match up and give mag’s a trophy. Someone, anyone … seriously. It’s there thing, the got it all on ‘co-ordinated’ lock down and any one who voices data or facts will just be brushed off. As expected.

With so many ‘how bad ’x’ is or ‘y’ is … you would think I would be able to find a ‘real’ suggestion… or something across a few hundred posts. Nothing, not a darn cookie … just more of the same which we got locked for before, and I believe might be able to get ‘3’ threads locked. It’s gotta be a forum record of sorts, so give a trophy where a trophy is due … I had hoped the conversations could have flipped … a touch. Slightly? Maybe? I guess that makes 3 servers who can all be unimpressed. Friday cannot come sooner.

Here is a real suggestion: if we camp your SW supply, you better learn how to handle that situation better. Two nights ago we set up trebs to get you to come out and fight and it took you two hours to get the camp back, even with your numbers. Yes, you took down our trebs several times, but we weren’t actually trying to take the keep. Call it an excuse if you want, but if you ever get Fort Aspenwood on your west spawn, you will know what a server actually looks like when they want your west keep. They’ll have at least twice as many people as we did and you may enjoy an 8 hour long treb game with swhurrrling elementalists.

And also the day before that we camped your NW tower and you guys tried to build trebs four or five times in really strange places (at least half were in the cata spot range) and they all got wrecked. Then you brought in three golems and knocked down the gate and still didn’t take the tower because you rushed for the lord instead of the superior siege we had on the walls. So uh, pro tip, don’t do that.

You need to improve your open field combat instead of just bringing more and more numbers until you accomplish things. That’s my opinion, anyway. And I’m not talking about random guilds.

Pendragon.8735:

I think that’s a good explanation and there is a method to the madness. I was not particularly impressed with WM either at the small scale level in their last matchup, and I regrettably did not get to see any of their bigger actions firsthand. But what they are going for is not small scale effectiveness or open field combat, but achieving macro level successes and not getting distracted by things that don’t matter on the scoreboard. And judging by that measure, they are very successful. I think a lot of people still fail to get what wins in WvW.

So what exactly wins in WvW? I don’t get any of that from your post.

John Widdin.9618:

The more I see people describe WM, I’m seeing it more as multiboxing. Not botting.

From my understanding, anet considers multiboxing in this game fine as long as the players use different inputs for each account. If they are able to press one button and have all four accounts do the same thing at the same time, it enters botting territory.

Bloated. You guys on Kain must be so bored. I was bored this morning, and I rolled into EBL, during early morning NA, (I think there were maybe three Mag players on the whole map) and killed one Yak ya don’t even need (was just outside our spawn, and on the way to a full keep), and a six man team showed up (too late).

It must be really dull to just PVDoor and fight NPCs all night. Makes me wonder why server match ups are worldwide and not separated by region.

Ninein.4782:

So what exactly wins in WvW? I don’t get any of that from your post.

Well for one discipline in sharing the same goal. Getting your 20 people to the objective and taking it over with laser like focus, instead of say half going rambo breaking off to chase and kill 10 people in a passing mini-zerg, let alone chasing one person, of which probably wasn’t threatening to do anything productive anyway. But the more individualistic player simply can’t resist such opportunities to display superior ‘skill’, or stroke the ego, and admittedly may be out in WvW more for that than anything else. But not the same thing as maximizing your impact on the scoreboard.

This is one reason why I was looking forward to seeing the result of this matchup, such a clash of styles, its a pity it isn’t more balanced numerically in coverage.

But I think calling these guys out as no skill as individual players is so missing the point. They don’t function as individual players they are a part of a sum, of a machine, its all in the name. They DPS as a unit, defend as a unit, fight as a unit.

Anyone who plays a more support oriented character can understand this quite easily, even if not taking to the same level of extreme. Can’t say I would enjoy being a cog 24/7, but can still appreciate the efficiency achievable with such a model.

I think ppl are saying NA Kaineng perform poorly at reset in T3 and T4 when numbers are even. This gets interpreted as NA Kaineng not being as good as their opponents. The WM “zombies” in EB behave in a very unusual matter and that is what being discussed.

Ninein.4782:

I think ppl are saying NA Kaineng perform poorly at reset in T3 and T4 when numbers are even which translate not being as good. The WM “zombies” in EB behave in a very unusual matter and that is what being discussed.

Kaineng has a ton of ppl though, ton of bandwagoners, not the same as specific guilds being discussed. And their strength is off peak time relative to NA not the 6 hours or so following a reset.

They also performed rather mediocre at last reset, but a match is 7 days not just reset. It’s as much about perseverance in a close match and not giving up, as having a fast start. In my experience many players on every server are very fairweather and give up quickly. And the final scores never indicate the true difference that should be in the score, but rather a bloated difference from so many people refusing to keep playing during the week. Which is why we had so much rubber banding back and forth in the old rating system.

If you cannot match up during NA on resets you are just a pretender.

They’ll get ripped up by some of the higher servers.

Pendragon.8735:

Ninein.4782:

So what exactly wins in WvW? I don’t get any of that from your post.

But I think calling these guys out as no skill as individual players is so missing the point. They don’t function as individual players they are a part of a sum, of a machine, its all in the name. They DPS as a unit, defend as a unit, fight as a unit.

Anyone who plays a more support oriented character can understand this quite easily, even if not taking to the same level of extreme. Can’t say I would enjoy being a cog 24/7, but can still appreciate the efficiency achievable with such a model.

I don’t know, I heard so much hype around WM about how awesome they are, but I think it was just way too much hype. Sure, they move together well as a unit, and if you get caught in their culling lawnmower of death you’re probably screwed, but they’re not so invincible that another skilled group can’t take them down. They are part of a sum, but if they fight a larger, more skilled group, then their sum will be less than the other sum… :P

It’s just kind of weird and sad that the WM of GW2 is so different than the WM of GW1. At least from my perspective. I’m curious to see how well they fare against the more organized groups in the upper tiers. We don’t really have m/any guilds that large and coordinated.

The funny thing about this conversation is that Mag is traditionally pretty bad at reset.