Guild Wars 2

As someone that spend 95% of my time in game in my guilds tower watching it and the camps around it( 25-30 hours a week) .this change SUCKSSSSSSS!!!!!. I was out of the tower today defending the North camp showed back up to a open gate and 10 man on the lord. a fully upgraded tower with plenty of siege laid, lost in less then 2 mins. by the time the swords popped and got called it was over. Thats just not right. thats well over a gold in upgrades and siege just gone to one sup ram and 10 guys… I enjoy guarding a tower.. but being chained to it. never leaving for fear of losing it. thats not fun.

Terrible change. Stuff is challenging enough to defend without giving the attackers a 30 second head start on it.

kittening karma trains. >_<

This change takes waypoint rushing to a whole new level as well, especially in bay and garrison where the portal is really close to the capture circle. A full 30 second window to respawn is just, well, messy, really messy….

Some people seem to be mistaken about what the change really is about.
If the keep is under attack, the waypoint will be contested 30 sec BEFORE the white swords show up, and after the 3 min event-window have passed you have the exact same time you had before this patch, 1-2 sec, before the waypoint gets contested again.
And so it begins, Golem Wars 2.

Samhaim.8956:

Some people seem to be mistaken about what the change really is about.
If the keep is under attack, the waypoint will be contested 30 sec BEFORE the white swords show up, and after the 3 min event-window have passed you have the exact same time you had before this patch, 1-2 sec, before the waypoint gets contested again.
And so it begins, Golem Wars 2.

This. So much.

Ethan Mccloud.3218:

mmmm I"m actually ok with this one … Works both ways .. WAY (1) “Come on Guys , we have exactly 30 seconds to breach this perimeter before we are seen…Let’s move People….” Way (2) kitten are you kidding me .. How did we just lose that tower . just capped it 4 mins ago". either way it sums up everyone one here .. I guess the real question is .. Are u dedicated enough to stand that post an sentry that tower while you army is pushing ahead or not?

We need someone to sit in Cragtop all night to make sure it doesn’t get ninja’d on us. You volunteering?

This doesn’t change waypoint function and is strictly a buffer for people to get started on a keep before a server responds, unless they sit people everywhere on every map.

It does favor zergs strictly because a zerg has a much higher supply budget and makes more use of 30 seconds. It also favors upgrades (waypoints) MUCH more than before, because they’re effectively an early warning system now.

A server that’s already winning is much more likely to have waypoints, meaning this is not only a karma train buff, but a green server buff. Both an offensive and defensive boon for the already winning team~

Samhaim.8956:

Some people seem to be mistaken about what the change really is about.
If the keep is under attack, the waypoint will be contested 30 sec BEFORE the white swords show up, and after the 3 min event-window have passed you have the exact same time you had before this patch, 1-2 sec, before the waypoint gets contested again.
And so it begins, Golem Wars 2.

This is not the case, you have 30 seconds in which you can use the waypoint.

I think Vizuna spent quite a lot of gems on cookies for cetrain WvW designer
</tinfoil hat mode Off>

Cool feature for hit and run groups but way better for zergfest

My biggest problem is that they increased the likelyhood of golem rushes, while at the same time, exponentially increased the amount of time to take a fully upgraded, defended keep. Keeps are both now easier (golem rushes) and harder (siege wars) to take. Keeps are both now harder (need constant sentrying) and easier (waypoints) to defend. Increasing everyone’s paranoia and frustration in one patch is bad.

Heh… ok, yes, arrowcarts were buffed. I kind of feel like they needed to be… before I could stand under one and it was no worse than a spring shower. But some people make it out to be much worse than it is I think.

A lot of the changes (basically more frequent flipping) means that keeps may not have a waypoint. It used to be a given that every keep had a waypoint. Now, not so much. I don’t know why, but I assume it’s because the keeps / camps are flipping more often and there isn’t the the time/supply/gold to keep re-upgrading. So remarks about using waypoints as early warning or transport aren’t as applicable as you think (in my opinion).

lemora.1304:

If Anet had actually cared to explain their reasoning behind alot of their very questionable decisions, most of us probably wouldn’t be here wondering about their intelligence level.

This. LoL may have a toxic community but at least Riot releases patch note videos and justifies their changes

Unlike the arrowcart change which the effect need to be wait and see, I do think this change is bad. This change combined with arrowcart change pretty much just encourages whole map zerg ninja tower/keep before 30 seconds up, which is horrible.

The problem, as with so many problems with WvW, is the difference between primetime and non-primetime (late night / early morning), and the effect it has on the balance between offense and defence.

During primetime the balance is very much in favour of defence; 20 players can easily hold off 2 or 3 times their numbers if they have supply for seige/upgrades. A T3 Hills keep is basically impossible to take during primetime if there are 20 defenders inside who know how to place their seige. And, importanly, they can dedicate themselves to that task because they know that the other 50-60 players on their team are taking care of the other objectives. No need to detach half your force because swords appeared on Cragtop, just keep going defending Hills, other folks can take care of it.

However, during off-peak hours, the balance is completely reversed and completely favours offense. Anyone who’s been on a night-crew will know all too well how difficult it is to hold a map with the 5-10 people you have available against a group of 20-30. You don’t have enough people to sit in every tower, you don’t have enough people to quickly build counter-seige, all you can do is respond as quickly as possible to white-swords (because it’s impossible to properly scout an entire map with so few people), and hope that there’s still some seige set up there for you to try and push them off the gate, which is most likely already at 50% by the time you get there.

This 30-second change is a buff for offense. It makes it easier to take objectives by giving you a 30-second headstart. Arguably, this buff was/is needed during primetime, because if the defenders can arrive in any sort of numbers objectives are incredibly hard to take. But during off-peak…… this is devastating.

Reslinal.2359:

Unlike the arrowcart change which the effect need to be wait and see, I do think this change is bad. This change combined with arrowcart change pretty much just encourages whole map zerg ninja tower/keep before 30 seconds up, which is horrible.

I think this post sums it up nicely.

VOLKON.1290:

Ethan Mccloud.3218:

mmmm I"m actually ok with this one … Works both ways .. WAY (1) “Come on Guys , we have exactly 30 seconds to breach this perimeter before we are seen…Let’s move People….” Way (2) kitten are you kidding me .. How did we just lose that tower . just capped it 4 mins ago". either way it sums up everyone one here .. I guess the real question is .. Are u dedicated enough to stand that post an sentry that tower while you army is pushing ahead or not?

We need someone to sit in Cragtop all night to make sure it doesn’t get ninja’d on us. You volunteering?

As a matter of fact.. i just left guard duty 20 mins ago. After 2 hours.. Our tower was defended with zero surprises. Proud to serve TArnishCoast Toasters. An now with an arrow cart at my disposable that does the damage it should of been doing along .. My fellow Militia can now concentrate on the objectives at hand rather then steam rolling back in a timely manner to an already breached gate.

Pendragon.8735:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If you are not going to have a scout in a structure, you deserve to loose it.

That’s irrelevant to the discussion of if the alert system is bad design or not.

The complaint was that you people don’t want to put scouts in structures and you think this change is a bad idea. You are all wrong in that regard.

It doesn’t really change anything except those servers or players that are lazy about guarding their buildings and a small force will be able to ninja you people for being lazy about guarding your stuff.

If you don’t wish to put people in a structure to keep an eye on things, you deserve to loose the keep.

You shouldn’t rely on some white swords to tell you that you have a attack coming.

It also allows small teams to ninja those that don’t wish to place anyone in a structure to keep an eye on things. You deserve to loose if you don’t guard your structures.

The change to the alert system is fine since it will only effect those that play a lesser quality strategy.

Nah, it primarily benefits zergs that can do massive damage to a door in 30 seconds. Small ninja teams are unlikely to get through a gate in 30 seconds, so even without scouts you can still defend vs them because you can have just enough people in the immediate area to repel. A 40 man zerg though losing 30 seconds on… goodbye structure.

Not sure why people want and defend this game getting more zerg friendly. Mechanics should encourage you know… PVP, not help avoid it.

Those in this thread that are defending this change are drinking the kool aide.

Ragnar.4257:

This 30-second change is a buff for offense. It makes it easier to take objectives by giving you a 30-second headstart. Arguably, this buff was/is needed during primetime, because if the defenders can arrive in any sort of numbers objectives are incredibly hard to take. But during off-peak…… this is devastating.

Bolded the important part. As an oceanic on a server with no real oceanic presence, there is practically no point in me trying to defend anything any more.

This just highlights how WvW is fundamentally broken in both its core design and infrastructure. Bandage patches won’t salvage the game mode, they’ll only punctuate the brokenness piecemeal.

kerona.3465:

Those in this thread that are defending this change are drinking the kool aide.

Some of us come from real pvp games where you don’t know theres an enemy nearby till you take an arrow in the knee. And its a lot more fun.

I would be perfectly fine with removing the easy mode map altogether.

urzen.7096:

Some of us come from real pvp games where you don’t know theres an enemy nearby till you take an arrow in the knee. And its a lot more fun for the enemy.

FYP.