Guild Wars 2

Hackuuna.4085:

Raf.1078:

SquirtyMagoo.8321:

Littlefeather.8623:

“Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose. Our 5 man wipes anything less than 30 people. If you’re running more than 30 people, the simple fact that you’re sticking as a huge ball like that is a time sink on its own.”

What does a 5 man SPvP team accomplish in WvW anyway?, I mean seriously, besides supply camps and harrasing solo roamers…

They pretty much harass stragglers and pug zergs. They are pretty effective against unorganised groups that aren’t too big, but I feel like most of the zergs in this tier are too big for them to be able to do anything to.

They do harass stragglers quite a bit. Those trying to get back to the battle….5 on 1…now there is a challenge for them for all their bellowing about looking for good fights.

I actually find it quite sad myself how we will watch as a TC zerg ignores us, while we rip into their rear, and the players that we catch do not make any attempt to fight back. The stragglers just sort of limp to their death trying desperately to rejoin the main mass. It’s like watching Bambii die over and over… I shed a plethora of internet tears each time we are roaming.

I know that those leading the TC zerg have bigger fish to fry sometimes but it does seem like they ascribe natural selection to their zerging.

Heh, I have witnessed this. It is kind of like a hurt water buffalo falling behind the herd and being brought down by a pack of hyenas as the herd runs by.

Hackuuna.4085:

Raf.1078:

SquirtyMagoo.8321:

Littlefeather.8623:

“Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose. Our 5 man wipes anything less than 30 people. If you’re running more than 30 people, the simple fact that you’re sticking as a huge ball like that is a time sink on its own.”

What does a 5 man SPvP team accomplish in WvW anyway?, I mean seriously, besides supply camps and harrasing solo roamers…

They pretty much harass stragglers and pug zergs. They are pretty effective against unorganised groups that aren’t too big, but I feel like most of the zergs in this tier are too big for them to be able to do anything to.

They do harass stragglers quite a bit. Those trying to get back to the battle….5 on 1…now there is a challenge for them for all their bellowing about looking for good fights.

I actually find it quite sad myself how we will watch as a TC zerg ignores us, while we rip into their rear, and the players that we catch do not make any attempt to fight back. The stragglers just sort of limp to their death trying desperately to rejoin the main mass. It’s like watching Bambii die over and over… I shed a plethora of internet tears each time we are roaming.

I know that those leading the TC zerg have bigger fish to fry sometimes but it does seem like they ascribe natural selection to their zerging.

Well it only happens to pugs, or people who arent in the active mumble. Typically if you tell them you are getting picked off in the back in the mumble, they will turn around to pick you up.

Anthrage.2519:

On the topic of this match-up and the various statements about it, this here is perhaps the best way to show just what things are like. Filter for our 3 servers by clicking the boxes at lower left and you’ll get a very clear picture.

In terms of match scores, going backwards:

TC – 223 590
FA – 201 409
KN – 173 529

TC – 222 746
KN – 209 096
FA – 186 601

KN – 213 128
TC – 207 825
FA – 180 466

KN – 217 255
FA – 190 887
TC – 182 386

KN – 220 054
TC – 200 080
FA – 193 536

Or looked at another way:

KN: 220 054, 217 255, 213 128, 222 746, 173 529
TC: 200 080, 182 386, 207 825, 222 746, 223 590
FA: 193 536, 190 887, 180 466, 186 601, 201 409

No need to panic folks. If anything, KN is anomalous at the moment, but otherwise, things are continuing on track.

I like this. +1

Bursts.1540:

Professor Sensei.2941:

So I was hearing something about FA is better than TC? I think I’ve only ever seen TC lose to them once and every other time it’s just a server to chase around for loot bags. Why do I keep hearing from random FA players added me to party that our server is trash?

Those players consider winning as wiping the other server. From judging your post you play for ppt and coverage am I right? Just differences of opinion. See you out there in your zerg ball.

Biggest Zergball I’ve ever seen belonged to FA on reset last week….in our Garrison.

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

FA’s “doesn’t matter; stabbed people” very UNvictory MSpaint masterpiece. Congrats guys!

Nobody responded to this yet? It is epic!

Congratulations FA on our UNvictory!

Ketharius.9018:

Anthrage.2519:

On the topic of this match-up and the various statements about it, this here is perhaps the best way to show just what things are like. Filter for our 3 servers by clicking the boxes at lower left and you’ll get a very clear picture.

In terms of match scores, going backwards:

TC – 223 590
FA – 201 409
KN – 173 529

TC – 222 746
KN – 209 096
FA – 186 601

KN – 213 128
TC – 207 825
FA – 180 466

KN – 217 255
FA – 190 887
TC – 182 386

KN – 220 054
TC – 200 080
FA – 193 536

Or looked at another way:

KN: 220 054, 217 255, 213 128, 222 746, 173 529
TC: 200 080, 182 386, 207 825, 222 746, 223 590
FA: 193 536, 190 887, 180 466, 186 601, 201 409

No need to panic folks. If anything, KN is anomalous at the moment, but otherwise, things are continuing on track.

I like this. +1

See, this is why I think Kaineng’s problems are so serious. We will finish the match close to 60,000 points behind. Just eyeballing it I would say that looks close to double the average margin between first and third over the history of this matchup. Most of those gaps seem to be in the 30,000-35,000 range.

Whitebeard.5172:

Hackuuna.4085:

Raf.1078:

SquirtyMagoo.8321:

Littlefeather.8623:

“Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose. Our 5 man wipes anything less than 30 people. If you’re running more than 30 people, the simple fact that you’re sticking as a huge ball like that is a time sink on its own.”

What does a 5 man SPvP team accomplish in WvW anyway?, I mean seriously, besides supply camps and harrasing solo roamers…

They pretty much harass stragglers and pug zergs. They are pretty effective against unorganised groups that aren’t too big, but I feel like most of the zergs in this tier are too big for them to be able to do anything to.

They do harass stragglers quite a bit. Those trying to get back to the battle….5 on 1…now there is a challenge for them for all their bellowing about looking for good fights.

I actually find it quite sad myself how we will watch as a TC zerg ignores us, while we rip into their rear, and the players that we catch do not make any attempt to fight back. The stragglers just sort of limp to their death trying desperately to rejoin the main mass. It’s like watching Bambii die over and over… I shed a plethora of internet tears each time we are roaming.

I know that those leading the TC zerg have bigger fish to fry sometimes but it does seem like they ascribe natural selection to their zerging.

Heh, I have witnessed this. It is kind of like a hurt water buffalo falling behind the herd and being brought down by a pack of hyenas as the herd runs by.

Those TC people should /sleep while using animal tonics. I might just feel sorry enough that I’d let them live.

Eh, who am I kidding? One of our guild members would be even more motivated to kill, succumbing to her desire to rip out innocent furry hearts Indiana Jones Temple of Doom style.

sceptus.9415:

Server transfers are part of the game. Those getting the transfers are happy, and those that aren’t are mad. I’ve been on TC since beta weekend 2, and I really don’t care who goes where. I’ll show up for the fighting one way or another. I remember a time in T2 when we were competitive with SoR, and they get a huge amount of transfers literally overnight. We were smashed flat. I also remember a time that KN got transfers and Fort Aspenwood got transfers. A lot of people from FA bad mouth our server constantly. They twist what we say into something we didn’t mean, and they find new ways to insult us every week. We continue forward and play the game and nothing you say here is going to change us and stop the fun. Peace.

EDIT: For what its worth, TC got where it is without big transfers for a long time. We gained DIS (which I joined recently and is a great guild), and lost a big guild that went to a lower tier (a guild that was formerly a T1 guild!). Other than small transfers, we haven’t really gotten many. So yeah, we have been on the bad end of the transfer game many times and I’m sure we will again. I don’t really care about which tier we are in, as long as there are people to fight and fun to be had.

TC was never competitive with SOR… the first week with sbi in tier 2, which is the week i believe you are referring to ( SOR received large transfers the week after)… TC lost to SOR by 74k points….

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/17#NA

whiran.1473:

At the end of the week there is one metric that matters: was it fun?

HE IS LOOKING AT THE MOON AND NOT THE FINGER! <3

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Hackuuna.4085:

Raf.1078:

SquirtyMagoo.8321:

Littlefeather.8623:

“Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose. Our 5 man wipes anything less than 30 people. If you’re running more than 30 people, the simple fact that you’re sticking as a huge ball like that is a time sink on its own.”

What does a 5 man SPvP team accomplish in WvW anyway?, I mean seriously, besides supply camps and harrasing solo roamers…

They pretty much harass stragglers and pug zergs. They are pretty effective against unorganised groups that aren’t too big, but I feel like most of the zergs in this tier are too big for them to be able to do anything to.

They do harass stragglers quite a bit. Those trying to get back to the battle….5 on 1…now there is a challenge for them for all their bellowing about looking for good fights.

I actually find it quite sad myself how we will watch as a TC zerg ignores us, while we rip into their rear, and the players that we catch do not make any attempt to fight back. The stragglers just sort of limp to their death trying desperately to rejoin the main mass. It’s like watching Bambii die over and over… I shed a plethora of internet tears each time we are roaming.

I know that those leading the TC zerg have bigger fish to fry sometimes but it does seem like they ascribe natural selection to their zerging.

Well it only happens to pugs, or people who arent in the active mumble. Typically if you tell them you are getting picked off in the back in the mumble, they will turn around to pick you up.

Darwin would love to have observed this. Any tips for us to recognize who is in the mumble? What percentage of the zerg is typically active in mumble?

Aurust.8961:

TC was never competitive with SOR… the first week with sbi in tier 2, which is the week i believe you are referring to ( SOR received large transfers the week after)… TC lost to SOR by 74k points….

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/17#NA

I think they were referring to the 2 weeks prior to that when SoR and TC had close scores.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Well considering we pushed you guys out of bay despite us having a numbers disadvantage for how long? Well over 2 hours before you managed to take it back. I’d say thats a victory in itself. But my god, I’ve NEVER seen FA use more trebs on anything ever. A wooden keep with ALL the walls down, and you keep building trebs. I actually even partied one of you and reminded you that you left the north/south inner gates up.

Kind of the point of a keep is to be able to keep out a larger force with a smaller one, especially with siege. You have all the advantages. It is what makes keeps worth keeping. That and the cake.

Atrophied.8725:

Aurust.8961:

TC was never competitive with SOR… the first week with sbi in tier 2, which is the week i believe you are referring to ( SOR received large transfers the week after)… TC lost to SOR by 74k points….

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/17#NA

I think they were referring to the 2 weeks prior to that when SoR and TC had close scores.

Those weeks were like the tail end of us getting beaten for 9 weeks prior by blackgate…. massive burnout and a huge meh attitude were commonplace. TC meanwhile was all gungho for being in tier 2. I would take those results with a grain of salt.

Actually, this is a nice illustration of the effect morale can have in wvw….

whiran.1473:

Bursts.1540:

Those players consider winning as wiping the other server. From judging your post you play for ppt and coverage am I right? Just differences of opinion. See you out there in your zerg ball.

I like posts like these. They make me laugh.

Lots of people on FA run around in a ‘zerg ball.’ Lots of people on TC run around in a ‘zerg ball.’ Lots of people on KN run around in a ‘zerg ball.’

So what?

There are crews on TC that specialize in small-scale pvp that ‘wipe’ FA zergs. There are KN groups that specialize in small-scale pvp that ‘wipe’ FA zergs.

There are groups on FA that specialize in small-scale pvp that ‘wipe’ TC zergs. And, you know what? There are groups on TC that specialize in small-scale pvp that ‘wipe’ KN zergs.

At the end of the week there is one metric that matters: was it fun?

All of the chest thumping, whining, and revealing of conspiracy theories that is done just makes one side look sore. Sore loser, sore winner…. it doesn’t matter. Just sore.

To me, it looks like the week went awesomely well. One server FA started out strong and petered out while another TC battled it out and overtook the lead. KN had a quiet week but that’s to be expected (in my view) after a few strong weeks. WvW burn-out is a real thing.

I always find it interesting to watch the general “feel” of a server as the match progresses and how their morale holds up.

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

I think there is no question TC over-performed this week and KN under-performed. The reasons for that have already been touched on, and even discounting those things that are in dispute, there are some which have clearly been factors. The score reflects this to be sure.

I however am speaking more in terms of the health of the match-up, not of Kaineng itself. I expect the final totals at the end of this round to be somewhere near:

TC – 235 000
FA – 209 000
KN – 181 000

While this would indeed be 54k less points for KN than TC, heading towards the 60k you mention, it is not out of line for the values we have seen historically in this match-up for each respective position. 3rd place has been at 186, 180, 182 and 193k…KN finishing at 181 is in line with the match-up positions, just not with KN’s performance.

In short, who typically finishes first and who typically finishes last may change. There are real factors at work here aside from who wins the battles on the field which are impacting each team’s performance this round. My position is however that the match-up itself is pretty stable, given who is in Tier 1 and who is in Tier 3, and that the quality of the match-up – and the fights – in this Tier is high, and I expect it to remain so, even with KN is indeed – for the moment, suffering serious problems.

As for KN itself, If you look at the graph I linked, you’ll see their incredible rise pretty starkly displayed. As a KN player I’m sure you know better than I. I have seen nothing in my rounds against KN, in my fights on the field with it’s players, or in this thread which leads me to believe KN is mortally wounded and unable to compete. You guys may have to change some things, perhaps even rethink how you fight given you may no longer be in the position of strength and superiority you have been up till now…but I do not see any reason for funeral services just yet.

Arkanfel.8403:

Ketharius.9018:

Anthrage.2519:

On the topic of this match-up and the various statements about it, this here is perhaps the best way to show just what things are like. Filter for our 3 servers by clicking the boxes at lower left and you’ll get a very clear picture.

In terms of match scores, going backwards:

TC – 223 590
FA – 201 409
KN – 173 529

TC – 222 746
KN – 209 096
FA – 186 601

KN – 213 128
TC – 207 825
FA – 180 466

KN – 217 255
FA – 190 887
TC – 182 386

KN – 220 054
TC – 200 080
FA – 193 536

Or looked at another way:

KN: 220 054, 217 255, 213 128, 222 746, 173 529
TC: 200 080, 182 386, 207 825, 222 746, 223 590
FA: 193 536, 190 887, 180 466, 186 601, 201 409

No need to panic folks. If anything, KN is anomalous at the moment, but otherwise, things are continuing on track.

I like this. +1

See, this is why I think Kaineng’s problems are so serious. We will finish the match close to 60,000 points behind. Just eyeballing it I would say that looks close to double the average margin between first and third over the history of this matchup. Most of those gaps seem to be in the 30,000-35,000 range.

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

FA’s “doesn’t matter; stabbed people” very UNvictory MSpaint masterpiece. Congrats guys!

This is awesome. Thanks for still doing the picture even though we fell from the standings

WyldKat.4712:

sceptus.9415:

A relaxing view from the bay last night on FA BL.

So, this hogs thing, it is spreading?

Being a tasty hog and AoN are the current jokes of our server.

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

It’s called wvw mate, anet has spvp for the l33t like you

I’m sure you’ll own everyone there no?

Why is Anvil Rock dominating that leaderboard?

Rawr.5930:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

It’s called wvw mate, anet has spvp for the l33t like you

I’m sure you’ll own everyone there no?

Why is Anvil Rock dominating that leaderboard?

Usual excuse is usual excuse. Easy reply is unless you can code something for me I can’t fit 20 people per side in sPvP. If you want to claim you’re guild is good at combat then we have a wide open field to test that theory. As of now, I haven’t seen anything impressive from TC.

Please prove me wrong. And no, walls are text, straw men, and dissembling is not proof.

Edit to add – No it doesn’t have to be 20 for those of you rushing to that excuse. That was a somewhat arbitrary figure.

iCryptik.1496:

Being a tasty hog and AoN are the current jokes of our server.

Is this one of those things I will never understand because I awoke under the Pale Tree instead of being all meaty like?

Rawr.5930:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

It’s called wvw mate, anet has spvp for the l33t like you

I’m sure you’ll own everyone there no?

_Why is Anvil Rock dominating that leaderboard?_

I thought it was well-know that Anvil Rock is the go-to server for dedicated sPvPers. It started this way since BWE when some of the sPvP dedicated guilds who thought GW2 would actually have an e-sports scene (sigh) began to congregate on Anvil Rock. This includes Team Paradigm, Alpha Collective, and a few other solid sPvP guilds transferred there.

As someone who came into this game exclusively for the sPvP, but who has since branched off, Anvil Rock was a great place to be a few months ago. Constant teams forming in Heart of the Mists, devs dropping by to talk shop, etc. Now with sPvP in such a bad state, the community is kind of dead, but it’s still where the few remaining heavy sPvPers stayed.

WyldKat.4712:

iCryptik.1496:

Being a tasty hog and AoN are the current jokes of our server.

Is this one of those things I will never understand because I awoke under the Pale Tree instead of being all meaty like?

Aye, that be ’da case lad.

Watch Kain fight against the Super-mega Server....the little train that CAN!
http://www.twitch.tv/sista1

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

It doesn’t really matter what you believe about TC. This is a statistical reality.

Average players make up the majority of a population group. Most players are average. Average players will make up 68.2% of the population. How do I know that? This is standard deviation. If you have 100 people 68 of them will be varying degrees of average. What this means is that within this group of players some will be better than others and some worse but, as a grouping, they make up the largest number of the population and, well, they aren’t spectacular one way or another.

13.6% of people will be above average and 13.6% of them will be below average. The 13.6% of players could be defined as ‘good’ players.

Above the good and the bads come the greats and the terribles. These players make up 2.1% of the population respectively. So, out of 100 players 2 of them will be great and 2 of them will be terrible. Yes, it’s fun to call everyone terrible but the reality is that most players of anything are average at it and only a few are terrible.

Then, beyond this group come the ultra-elite players. And this group makes up… 01%. Yep, in 100 players there may be ONE who is super-duper-amazing.

I can understand “server pride” but one server is about the same as another server when it comes to player skill. There are definitely differences in culture but in terms of skill one is about the same as another. There might be a very -small- difference in overall server skill but in WvW I haven’t seen it. The most differentiating factor between the servers is morale (which directly impacts population in WvW) and culture (which directly impacts morale).

The biggest thing when it comes to server ranking is population. Servers need 24/7 coverage to be a tier 1, they need 18-20 hour / 7 days coverage for tier 2, and it drops steadily after that.

Culture does have some impact on results when all is equal as does the ability of the commanders to lead the average players but we’re not discussing this. We’re discussing small groups of “elite” players.

But, I know this won’t change your mind. You’ve already decided to believe that TC players are all bads and that you have elites. That’s okay It’s your own personal belief and that’s cool. You can continue to believe yourself to be awesome and I’m sure that you are. As long as you’re having fun along the way then keep at it!

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.
{…}
Usual excuse is usual excuse. Easy reply is unless you can code something for me I can’t fit 20 people per side in sPvP. If you want to claim you’re guild is good at combat then we have a wide open field to test that theory. As of now, I haven’t seen anything impressive from TC.

Please prove me wrong. And no, walls are text, straw men, and dissembling is not proof.

Edit to add – No it doesn’t have to be 20 for those of you rushing to that excuse. That was a somewhat arbitrary figure.

CERN has fielded some GvG fights, ask VK (Brother Alaric even recorded a few) (switching people out between fights depending on what you see from us during GvGs? Not cool, btw. Run with what you bring.)

Furbs.9054:

I thought it was well-know that Anvil Rock is the go-to server for dedicated sPvPers. It started this way since BWE when some of the sPvP dedicated guilds who thought GW2 would actually have an e-sports scene (sigh) began to congregate on Anvil Rock. This includes Team Paradigm, Alpha Collective, and a few other solid sPvP guilds transferred there.

As someone who came into this game exclusively for the sPvP, but who has since branched off, Anvil Rock was a great place to be a few months ago. Constant teams forming in Heart of the Mists, devs dropping by to talk shop, etc. Now with sPvP in such a bad state, the community is kind of dead, but it’s still where the few remaining heavy sPvPers stayed.

Haha well i didnt know

Explains alot really, as when the leaderboards popped up, i was wondering what the heck was going on

Thanks!

Haldunius.7864:

It is well known. It’s just been an excuse recently used by some individuals to deflect from the point of the discussion.

I’m just a hog mate, never claimed to be superior gvg or pvp or wvw, look up my posts

But you sir are obviously a legend.

Cheers and have fun!

whiran.1473:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

It doesn’t really matter what you believe about TC. This is a statistical reality.

Average players make up the majority of a population group. Most players are average. Average players will make up 68.2% of the population. How do I know that? This is standard deviation. If you have 100 people 68 of them will be varying degrees of average. What this means is that within this group of players some will be better than others and some worse but, as a grouping, they make up the largest number of the population and, well, they aren’t spectacular one way or another.

13.6% of people will be above average and 13.6% of them will be below average. The 13.6% of players could be defined as ‘good’ players.

Above the good and the bads come the greats and the terribles. These players make up 2.1% of the population respectively. So, out of 100 players 2 of them will be great and 2 of them will be terrible. Yes, it’s fun to call everyone terrible but the reality is that most players of anything are average at it and only a few are terrible.

Then, beyond this group come the ultra-elite players. And this group makes up… 01%. Yep, in 100 players there may be ONE who is super-duper-amazing.

I can understand “server pride” but one server is about the same as another server when it comes to player skill. There are definitely differences in culture but in terms of skill one is about the same as another. There might be a very -small- difference in overall server skill but in WvW I haven’t seen it. The most differentiating factor between the servers is morale (which directly impacts population in WvW) and culture (which directly impacts morale).

The biggest thing when it comes to server ranking is population. Servers need 24/7 coverage to be a tier 1, they need 18-20 hour / 7 days coverage for tier 2, and it drops steadily after that.

Culture does have some impact on results when all is equal as does the ability of the commanders to lead the average players but we’re not discussing this. We’re discussing small groups of “elite” players.

But, I know this won’t change your mind. You’ve already decided to believe that TC players are all bads and that you have elites. That’s okay It’s your own personal belief and that’s cool. You can continue to believe yourself to be awesome and I’m sure that you are. As long as you’re having fun along the way then keep at it!

That’s not how stats work.. You are just using bell curve figures. Which makes no sense. You haven’t found a mean to even know what the average skill of a player actually is.

If you wanted to measure skill of servers you would need actual data.

Anthrage.2519:

I think there is no question TC over-performed this week and KN under-performed. The reasons for that have already been touched on, and even discounting those things that are in dispute, there are some which have clearly been factors. The score reflects this to be sure.

I however am speaking more in terms of the health of the match-up, not of Kaineng itself. I expect the final totals at the end of this round to be somewhere near:

TC – 235 000
FA – 209 000
KN – 181 000

While this would indeed be 54k less points for KN than TC, heading towards the 60k you mention, it is not out of line for the values we have seen historically in this match-up for each respective position. 3rd place has been at 186, 180, 182 and 193k…KN finishing at 181 is in line with the match-up positions, just not with KN’s performance.

In short, who typically finishes first and who typically finishes last may change. There are real factors at work here aside from who wins the battles on the field which are impacting each team’s performance this round. My position is however that the match-up itself is pretty stable, given who is in Tier 1 and who is in Tier 3, and that the quality of the match-up – and the fights – in this Tier is high, and I expect it to remain so, even with KN is indeed – for the moment, suffering serious problems.

As for KN itself, If you look at the graph I linked, you’ll see their incredible rise pretty starkly displayed. As a KN player I’m sure you know better than I. I have seen nothing in my rounds against KN, in my fights on the field with it’s players, or in this thread which leads me to believe KN is mortally wounded and unable to compete. You guys may have to change some things, perhaps even rethink how you fight given you may no longer be in the position of strength and superiority you have been up till now…but I do not see any reason for funeral services just yet.

I don’t think that the bottom score is really indicative of the match, though. What really matters if you want to see how well a server is performing throughout the match is not so much the points but the point gaps. TC and FA were competitive with each other this week until Wednesday night, whereas Kaineng hasn’t been competitive with with TC since the weekend of the 29th, or FA at any point since this last reset.

I believe that it’s not so much that Kaineng is getting weaker, so much as it is that the other servers are getting stronger. I don’t think we’ve lost a tremendous amount of people or talent, but participation is dropping and even at our height we never won the tier by sixty thousand points. I appreciate the folks putting on a cheerful face and everything (and even our opponents who insist that we’re doing fine), but I think the reality of the situation is pretty unpleasant for this server. If we lose next week, our turnout and morale problems will only get worse, and I’m already tired of trying to command while outmanned. On the whole, I’m still enjoying myself—don’t get me wrong—but I think the population and organization on Kaineng have been stagnant for longer than just this last week. With a couple exceptions, I don’t think strategy has really been a problem, and our gameplay is usually fine too. We don’t drop enough superior siege and seem to have trouble scouting our towers (which is kind of a big deal when it comes to PPT and momentum), but once the weekend is over we can only man two and part of a third map even during NA prime.

Your mileage may vary but I am about ready to call the priest. I will try my hardest but I really doubt we have it in us to be competitive next week. WM should be coming back, I think, so that would help but we can’t rely on them anymore. Kaineng won with a certain formula that I don’t think she will be able to change without mass transfers from NA and EU. Her formula has been solved by both other servers now and the only way is down (at least out of T2) unless those transfers roll in. I doubt they will, since time is already pretty close to running out. I suspect that after another loss or two like this and guilds will probably start to give up.

I iz sad charr. T_T

I would not mind seeing this thread locked. Its become nothing but poison from every side. Too much feeding of trolls has made them powerful, and thus they became champion trolls, and our /m shoutouts fell on deaf ears.

There are alot of troll posts but i have no problem with a server health and score discussion. As long as it’s kept civil.

Scouting of towers, eh? Seems my job is now not merely needed but demanded. Well, I’ll have fun tonight trying to keep tabs on TC/FA.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

…not mind seeing this thread locked. Its become nothing but poison from every side…feeding of trolls…

Example of cutting down a quote instead of having to redo a text wall brick by brick with mortar in between.

Aw, I’m sorry if I’ve been poisony. I mean, sometimes I get thorny, but I don’t even carry venom vials anymore. Actually, ok, except for when I’m being all SEALvari in the lake with Basilisk in my pocket, I don’t even carry venom vials anymore.

Ok. I have a lot of hidden caches of venoms and whatnot all over. But totally not carrying vials. None. Ever. At all. Nope. But I’m my side. No poison. Rawr.

Atrophied.8725:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.
{…}
Usual excuse is usual excuse. Easy reply is unless you can code something for me I can’t fit 20 people per side in sPvP. If you want to claim you’re guild is good at combat then we have a wide open field to test that theory. As of now, I haven’t seen anything impressive from TC.

Please prove me wrong. And no, walls are text, straw men, and dissembling is not proof.

Edit to add – No it doesn’t have to be 20 for those of you rushing to that excuse. That was a somewhat arbitrary figure.

CERN has fielded some GvG fights, ask VK (Brother Alaric even recorded a few) (switching people out between fights depending on what you see from us during GvGs? Not cool, btw. Run with what you bring.)

I seem to recall one of our guilds (I forget which exactly) GvGing [HOPE] last week. They won. [VK] then proceeded to slaughter them with a zerg ball. Was that you guys?

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

FA’s “doesn’t matter; stabbed people” very UNvictory MSpaint masterpiece. Congrats guys!

you forgot to put a commander tag above everyones head

Atrophied.8725:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.
{…}
Usual excuse is usual excuse. Easy reply is unless you can code something for me I can’t fit 20 people per side in sPvP. If you want to claim you’re guild is good at combat then we have a wide open field to test that theory. As of now, I haven’t seen anything impressive from TC.

Please prove me wrong. And no, walls are text, straw men, and dissembling is not proof.

Edit to add – No it doesn’t have to be 20 for those of you rushing to that excuse. That was a somewhat arbitrary figure.

CERN has fielded some GvG fights, ask VK (Brother Alaric even recorded a few) (switching people out between fights depending on what you see from us during GvGs? Not cool, btw. Run with what you bring.)

You guys did do some GvG’s and I applaud you for that. As I said, the GvG’s that have happened have not gone very well for TC (hence my not believing claims of their PvP prowess). One of the ways to get better is to do more.

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

FA’s “doesn’t matter; stabbed people” very UNvictory MSpaint masterpiece. Congrats guys!

Thanks for this! Made ma day.

JudgeD.5673:

Scouting of towers, eh? Seems my job is now not merely needed but demanded. Well, I’ll have fun tonight trying to keep tabs on TC/FA.

Tower scouting (even across maps) is one of the big ingredients to TC’s success. Their commanders seem very responsive to any calls of 20+ inc or siege being built. The server on the whole is also far better than we are on defense in general, particularly when it comes to siege placement and counter-trebbing. This week during NA daytime it was pretty common for TC to be holed up at Hills on KBL, outmanned or close for hours but still adequately defending the keep. When the shoe is on the other foot, we tend to lose keeps quickly. I think my jaw would about hit the floor if I saw us hold a lone keep other than home Garrison on a borderland for hours while outmanned.

Time to improve, eh?

Haldunius.7864:

Arkard.3970:

Atrophied.8725:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.
{…}
Usual excuse is usual excuse. Easy reply is unless you can code something for me I can’t fit 20 people per side in sPvP. If you want to claim you’re guild is good at combat then we have a wide open field to test that theory. As of now, I haven’t seen anything impressive from TC.

Please prove me wrong. And no, walls are text, straw men, and dissembling is not proof.

Edit to add – No it doesn’t have to be 20 for those of you rushing to that excuse. That was a somewhat arbitrary figure.

CERN has fielded some GvG fights, ask VK (Brother Alaric even recorded a few) (switching people out between fights depending on what you see from us during GvGs? Not cool, btw. Run with what you bring.)

I seem to recall one of our guilds (I forget which exactly) GvGing [HOPE] last week. They won. [VK] then proceeded to slaughter them with a zerg ball. Was that you guys?

Yup – I’m in VK.

Edit to add – My point isn’t to reflect on past battles and decide who won what and all that but to say, let’s do some more GvG. It’s a fun element to the game that’s been left out of its formal design. The change to PPT won’t be that dramatic. You wanna claim great PvP skills? Awesome, let’s put it to the test. If you are going to claim them and not show them, then such claims are on par with the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.

I was asking Atrophied.872 actually about whether that guild I was describing was [CERN]. Also, you’re in [VK]? Seriously? You keep posting about GvG when your guild zerged a TC guild who just won a GvG?

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

I didn’t think I’d find the kind of player who screams “Money Match” after losing in tourney outside of the FGC. Are you the kind of person who parties after losing an engagement and screams “GVG NOW” while in the middle of a WvW reset?
I don’t know what magical standard you use to measure WvW progress but if your super optimized 40v40 GvG layouts and strats don’t work in a 40v80 maybe it’s not in your best interest to think some imaginary standard applies to your opponents as well.

20v20? 30v30? 40v40? Bring them all? All of these could be called “guild vs guild.” You want to pretend this is Smash Brothers and you can turn items off and apply some standard that some backroom of GvG experts can accept as “an acceptable sample size of a guild’s competency in WvW combat outside of actual current WvW situations” be my guest.

sibladeko.7634:

Haldunius.7864:

I just honestly don’t believe this about TC. KN has some good guilds and have provided some good GvG’s. TC barely GvG’s. The few times they have it has gone very poorly. These are times when numbers are even. You can’t hide behind walls or show up with twice the numbers and brag about steam rolling a few guys. It’s about who’s “better” because the baddies die. If you are genuinely curious and believe a certain group is “competent”, then put it to the test.

I didn’t think I’d find the kind of player who screams “Money Match” after losing in tourney outside of the FGC. Are you the kind of person who parties after losing an engagement and screams “GVG NOW” while in the middle of a WvW reset?
I don’t know what magical standard you use to measure WvW progress but if your super optimized 40v40 GvG layouts and strats don’t work in a 40v80 maybe it’s not in your best interest to think some imaginary standard applies to your opponents as well.

20v20? 30v30? 40v40? Bring them all? All of these could be called “guild vs guild.” You want to pretend this is Smash Brothers and you can turn items off and apply some standard that some backroom of GvG experts can accept as “an acceptable sample size of a guild’s competency in WvW combat outside of actual current WvW situations” be my guest.

Dude, get over the dissembling and straw man arguments. Requesting GvG should not be taken as an insult. I don’t know why you guys do this so often.

Professor Sensei.2941:

you forgot to put a commander tag above everyones head

They’re under the wizard hats, duh.

Haldunius.7864:

Dude, get over the dissembling and straw man arguments. Requesting GvG should not be taken as an insult. I don’t know why you guys do this so often.

Context is everything.
It’s not an insult if you genuinely just want to have fun GvG.
If instead you judge a server because whatever guild you challenged refused your challenge on reset night after you lost bay or you trashed some guild 27v27 in a square terrain-less box, I think it qualifies as you looking for something to prove.
I mean you’ve already said as much, “TC sucks at guild fights and lacks good guilds because the ones that show up get beaten or they flat out refuse to participate.”
I didn’t misinterpret anything.

Arkanfel.8403:

Tower scouting (even across maps) is one of the big ingredients to TC’s success. Their commanders seem very responsive to any calls of 20+ inc or siege being built. The server on the whole is also far better than we are on defense in general…

I’m fairly annoyed at TC and KN at times. I go mess with a supply camp and the next thing I know I’m doing the runny screamy stealthy poof thing trying to get away from 10+ folks. Grr. All that.

Arkard.3970:

I seem to recall one of our guilds (I forget which exactly) GvGing [HOPE] last week. They won. [VK] then proceeded to slaughter them with a zerg ball. Was that you guys?

Ummm sorry? CERN did GvG HOPE two weeks ago, three rounds of 15v15. CERN won one match, HOPE won two, (2-1). It was for fun and nothing that serious (hence neither side gloated about winning) and HOPE didn’t use any type of group compositions, we just through together what we had. Check your facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pwvfo3mR-gU

EDIT: We only did three rounds so VK could get a chance to GvG them as well. I would have been happy to continue otherwise. The GvG between CERN and VK was completely fair, too.

sibladeko.7634:

Context is everything.
It’s not an insult if you genuinely just want to have fun GvG…

How about the context of GvG being meaningless as far as getting points for your world?

Is everyone else going to stand by and let the guilds go at it? Why would either even be fighting on open ground? And if it’s at a keep or Stonemist, what, the loser is just going to pack up and leave town like it’s some kind of elimination match rawr wrestling show style?

But it would be kinda fun to watch in that train wrecky can’t look away way. Ya wai?

sibladeko.7634:

Haldunius.7864:

Dude, get over the dissembling and straw man arguments. Requesting GvG should not be taken as an insult. I don’t know why you guys do this so often.

Context is everything.
It’s not an insult if you genuinely just want to have fun GvG.
If instead you basically judge a server because whatever guild you challenged refused your challenge on reset night after you lost bay, I think it qualifies as you looking for something to prove.
I mean you’ve already said as much, “TC sucks at guild fights and lacks good guilds because the ones that show up get beaten or they flat out refuse the participate.”
I didn’t misinterpret anything.

Uh…we’ve beeng trying to get TC guilds to GvG for weeks. Your lady Jayne even tried to hold it out as a carrot to our server when she started posting on our server forums. One of your players started describing TC’s prowess in PvP in that discussion of Bay and then another started talking about how servers, TC included, have great zerg busting guilds. Seems like a good time to talk about PvP/GvG to me.

Edit to add – we are always looking for GvG btw. It’s an ongoing effort.

Drigan.7382:

Arkard.3970:

I seem to recall one of our guilds (I forget which exactly) GvGing [HOPE] last week. They won. [VK] then proceeded to slaughter them with a zerg ball. Was that you guys?

Ummm sorry? CERN did GvG HOPE two weeks ago, three rounds of 15v15. CERN won one match, HOPE won two, (2-1). It was for fun and nothing that serious (hence neither side gloated about winning) and HOPE didn’t use any type of group compositions, we just through together what we had. Check your facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pwvfo3mR-gU

Good lord man, reading comprehension. I ASKED IF THAT GUILD WAS [CERN]. I DID NOT SAY IT WAS [CERN]. Check your eyesight.

Just want to throw out there that VK did not zerg down CERN, there were 4 rounds from the video I watched. I wasn’t present but I believe both had fun and walked away with a better understanding of pvp. Props to them for coming out.

narcissus.6418:

Just want to throw out there that VK did not zerg down CERN, there were 4 rounds from the video I watched. I wasn’t present but I believe both had fun and walked away with a better understanding of pvp. Props to them for coming out.

Fair enough, so [CERN] wasn’t that guild. Thank you for the reply.