Guild Wars 2

Jackie.1829:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

I endorse what they did as well. In fact, I was on comms laughing with them while they did it. We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds. I am sorry I adversely effected your web browsing for the night. Except I couldnt care less.

“We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds.”

Well I was pretty much out of this thread because I thought it was simply a divergence of opinions between myself (who has actually played the game since the patch) and others who, quite obviously, had not. I figured given the time, they would play and realize how wrong they were. NOW I find out it’s a collective hissy fit by some nobody guild, and they even admit it.

Really? Then I will ridicule you and your obvious lack of WvW prowess at every turn. My server’s still able to capture keeps and towers; arrow carts cannot stop us.

I guess you’re just not as good as us.

FractalChaos.6539:

Jackie.1829:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

I endorse what they did as well. In fact, I was on comms laughing with them while they did it. We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds. I am sorry I adversely effected your web browsing for the night. Except I couldnt care less.

“We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds.”

Well I was pretty much out of this thread because I thought it was simply a divergence of opinions between myself (who has actually played the game since the patch) and others who, quite obviously, had not. I figured given the time, they would play and realize how wrong they were. NOW I find out it’s a collective hissy fit by some nobody guild, and they even admit it.

Really? Then I will ridicule you and your obvious lack of WvW prowess at every turn. My server’s still able to capture keeps and towers; arrow carts cannot stop us.

I guess you’re just not as good as us.

I actually lold. Whatever makes you happy <3

But going with your logic. Before the patch I actually stopped several sieges with arrow carts against superior forces. I guess you’re just not as good as us.

Actually, why dont we double the health on keep gates and walls. I am sure even after that, somebody will flip a keep so surely its not a big issue. I think we should also remove armor from the game, because even without armor I am sure I could kill you in wvw.

Cool story bro.

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

As guild leader of VoTF I have no issue with what either of them did. It’s almost as bad as being ignored, wouldn’t you agree?

Heijincks.9267:

Jackie.1829:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

I endorse what they did as well. In fact, I was on comms laughing with them while they did it. We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds. I am sorry I adversely effected your web browsing for the night. Except I couldnt care less.

You probably won’t get what you want. Ascended items? Thousands of anti-ascended posts, and Anet said “it’s gonna stay” despite the opposition. The issue with small guilds? Again, thousands of posts, but this time Anet didn’t even post in it.

My guess is that it’s going to be the same here, and the likelihood you’d get a dev response on this is even smaller given the near even proportions of pro and anti arrow carts.

More so, the OP arrow carts existed once before the last patch. It was during the beta weekends. The fact Anet rebuffed them shows that they’ve actually thought about the consequences it might have (because then why would they nerf them in the first place?).

Above all, for every single change related issue, every single time people adapted to it and people stop caring after a month or so, when the dissenters either left the game or adapted. The arrow cart issue won’t be any different.

So sorry. It’s unlikely WvW will go back to the way it was. It’s natural selection at work here. Adapt, or be gone.

Because Ascended items 1% overall increase was game breaking yes?

It has nothing to do with natural selection, Anet kittened up BIG style and that is the top and bottom of it. hence all of the damage control they are doing on the forums.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Jackie.1829:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

I endorse what they did as well. In fact, I was on comms laughing with them while they did it. We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds. I am sorry I adversely effected your web browsing for the night. Except I couldnt care less.

You probably won’t get what you want. Ascended items? Thousands of anti-ascended posts, and Anet said “it’s gonna stay” despite the opposition. The issue with small guilds? Again, thousands of posts, but this time Anet didn’t even post in it.

My guess is that it’s going to be the same here, and the likelihood you’d get a dev response on this is even smaller given the near even proportions of pro and anti arrow carts.

More so, the OP arrow carts existed once before the last patch. It was during the beta weekends. The fact Anet rebuffed them shows that they’ve actually thought about the consequences it might have (because then why would they nerf them in the first place?).

Above all, for every single change related issue, every single time people adapted to it and people stop caring after a month or so, when the dissenters either left the game or adapted. The arrow cart issue won’t be any different.

So sorry. It’s unlikely WvW will go back to the way it was. It’s natural selection at work here. Adapt, or be gone.

Because Ascended items 1% overall increase was game breaking yes?

No it isn’t. I certainly don’t, but many people thought it was.

The point here isn’t to demonstrate what’s game breaking or not. It’s how Anet responds to player raised issues, and how they went to resolve them.

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

and if they are not going to respond, then why do they have these alpha testers and beta testers ectect….that stuff might as well not happen if they choose to ignore the issues raised by players.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Heijincks.9267:

So sorry. It’s unlikely WvW will go back to the way it was. It’s natural selection at work here. Adapt, or be gone.

I vote “be gone”. They obviously can’t cope.

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

edit: that’s just the people I’ve talked to. I can’t account for those that I haven’t

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

No..im sorry you don’t need to adapt to something such as gathering gear…you either do fractals and dailies/ guild missions for the ascended gear or you don’t…you are not forced to obtain these items, on the other hand we ARE forced to adapt if we wish to play wvw.

I don’t really see how anyone can find spamming 1 fun. This goes for blobbing and ACs.
These guys should get the “tap the egg until it cracks” game.

I have video of myself and about 20 SoR on Blackgate’s BL assaulting Sunny, or whatever it’s called on that map. I’ll be posting it soon as I trim the chat window out (no reason to let anyone see some of the mean-spirited stuff being said), but I hope you enjoy the sight of my Engineer standing in the overlapping arrow cart circles and never going below half health. Revel in the sight of me rezzing someone as the ACs and the defenders on the cliff behind me shoot me without killing me.

Then, dear VoTF, I shall sit back and await your savant explanation of how these overpowered arrow carts failed to kill me or “melt” our large group…even when we were just standing there.

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of tier 1-2 guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

It definitely is a shaking change; there’s no denying that. It’s the reason why I understand why there is so much dissent. Humans have this psychological resistance to change, it’s innate and can’t be helped.

That said, I can’t tell anyone what they can like or dislike, so at best I can only voice my own opinion on the matter and why I have it. However, even amongst the greatest of dissenters, should they choose to stay, they all eventually adapt to it no matter how much they hated it at first, if no reversion was ever made.

It’s a general trend I’ve noticed. It even occurs at even greater scenarios such as the passing of a new law. Remember this post if Anet doesn’t ever revert back the arrow carts.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

No..im sorry you don’t need to adapt to something such as gathering gear…you either do fractals and dailies/ guild missions for the ascended gear or you don’t…you are not forced to obtain these items, on the other hand we ARE forced to adapt if we wish to play wvw.

Actually yes you do. A lot of players bought this game on the premise that they don’t need to grind for vertical progression. They had to adapt to that despite that getting ascended is a grind in their definition. Either that, or they quit the game. The third option is to resist and not get ascended for the sake of not getting it, which I don’t think anyone is doing so.

Sorry, but my argument sticks.

FractalChaos.6539:

Heijincks.9267:

So sorry. It’s unlikely WvW will go back to the way it was. It’s natural selection at work here. Adapt, or be gone.

I vote “be gone”. They obviously can’t cope.

Why does this have anything with coping? Have you ever heard of the term balance?

Lots of people can cope with lots of things. If I put you in a hole for a week without food I am sure you would cope, but somehow I doubt this is your ideal lifestyle.

We express our concerns for the sake of the game itself and nothing to do with what we can and cannot cope with. Just like in GW1 I expressed when a patch unbalanced a class.

Though whatever floats your boat. For your sake I hope half the guilds in the game leave, so you can enjoy playing your dead game against bad players thinking you somehow “survived” and “persevered”.

Also let me leave you with a final thought for the day. The average player does not have 75 points to spend into masteries as they didnt expect such a patch. I myself have 79 points to spend. Give it about a month, when everywhere is filled with poison, with massive arrow cart damage, where the average player actually has the points to make ACs OP. Then you will know that I was right. That day will come, trust me.

Aneu.1748:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

As guild leader of VoTF I have no issue with what either of them did. It’s almost as bad as being ignored, wouldn’t you agree?

You should because they are making your guild look very bad. It not surprising that they are ignoring them because all they are doing is spamming the forums.
The last thing you want to do is to give in to ppl who are doing what seems to be a tantrum it rewards the the action of throwing a tantrum.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

No..im sorry you don’t need to adapt to something such as gathering gear…you either do fractals and dailies/ guild missions for the ascended gear or you don’t…you are not forced to obtain these items, on the other hand we ARE forced to adapt if we wish to play wvw.

Actually yes you do. A lot of players bought this game on the premise that they don’t need to grind for vertical progression. They had to adapt to that despite that getting ascended is a grind in their definition. Either that, or they quit the game. The third option is to resist and not get ascended for the sake of not getting it, which I don’t think anyone is doing so.

Sorry, but my argument sticks.

you just answered it yourself…they don’t “NEED” to grind it. we NEED to adapt to it…

Actually, if they think getting ascended is a grind, then if they want to get it, they’d have to grind for it. Since they think getting ascended is a grind to them, and they’re getting ascended, then it is to them a grind to get it.

Likewise, if you think arrow carts are gamebreaking, then if you want to continue playing WvW, you’d have to adapt to it. Since you think arrow carts are gamebreaking, but you continue to do so anyway, then you’ll be adapting to it, assuming Anet doesn’t revert back anything.

Get it?

Grind is a subjective term just like gamebreaking. Unless you’re going to tell me the word gamebreaking is not a subjective term, then you have no argument.

Heijincks.9267:

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of tier 1-2 guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

It definitely is a shaking change; there’s no denying that. It’s the reason why I understand why there is so much dissent. Humans have this psychological resistance to change, it’s innate and can’t be helped.

That said, I can’t tell anyone what they can like or dislike, so at best I can only voice my own opinion on the matter and why I have it. However, even amongst the greatest of dissenters, should they choose to stay, they all eventually adapt to it no matter how much they hated it at first.

It’s a general trend I’ve noticed. It even occurs at even greater scenarios such as the passing of a new law.

Thing is, for guilds that are focused on large scale pvp combat, there isn’t much pathway for us to adapt. There are a few factors why:
- It now takes an extreme amount of effort and time to get into said objective to have a fight over the objective for our pvp
-People on both sides are just dropping arrowcarts mid battle field to kill each other

To the first point, as we get bored and tired of trying to get into an objective to get our one big fight of the night (based on a few reports that it took 2.5+ hours to get into an objective) instead of several a night like before, more and more skirmish guilds will lose players to other games or IRL since they don’t play to sit and siege a keep for 2.5 hours for a 10 minute fight.

To the second point,
Obviously, it’s wvw, so there is siege. We can accept that. But, we as a pvp community aren’t here to fight siege. We’re here to fight people. That is the core of what pvp is.

There may be other points and reasons I haven’t stated, but that is why we see this as game breaking. Because the game for us is the larger scale skirmishes (from 10v10 up to 40v40). It is the reason that keeps us playing the game. Spvp does not accomodate it (anything higher than 10v10), and Arenanet won’t give us GvG. Thus, WvW has been our only option.

This is why many people see this as a bad patch. Because they won’t get their adrenaline filled fast paced fights as much as it used to be anymore.

And thus, my question is: where do we get our fights? Very few other games support a beautiful combat system that GW2 provides that allows for highly coordinated team fights on a large scale.

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

As guild leader of VoTF I have no issue with what either of them did. It’s almost as bad as being ignored, wouldn’t you agree?

You should because they are making your guild look very bad. It not surprising that they are ignoring them because all they are doing is spamming the forums.

No.

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

No..im sorry you don’t need to adapt to something such as gathering gear…you either do fractals and dailies/ guild missions for the ascended gear or you don’t…you are not forced to obtain these items, on the other hand we ARE forced to adapt if we wish to play wvw.

Actually yes you do. A lot of players bought this game on the premise that they don’t need to grind for vertical progression. They had to adapt to that despite that getting ascended is a grind in their definition. Either that, or they quit the game. The third option is to resist and not get ascended for the sake of not getting it, which I don’t think anyone is doing so.

Sorry, but my argument sticks.

They don’t need to grind for vertical progression because the increase is so minute, yet the gear that is available is easily obtainable with just casual play, since most people probably do their dailies every day anyhow even before they implemented currency as a reward so the items come in due time anyhow, and i doubt EVERYONE is grinding for the ascended gear merely because they care not for min maxing their characters.

The changes to arrow carts on the other hand is something we need to adapt to because of how large of an impact these changes have on the way the game is played inside WvW

But enough of this discussion because it is going “off topic” slightly

This post was ment to replace the one you quoted…but you seem to have eagle eyes or something..

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

As guild leader of VoTF I have no issue with what either of them did. It’s almost as bad as being ignored, wouldn’t you agree?

You should because they are making your guild look very bad. It not surprising that they are ignoring them because all they are doing is spamming the forums.

No.

So wait they did not spamming the forums or its making your guild look good?

Jski.6180:

You should

No.

The change to arrow carts sucks.

That is all.

Since people wanted me to substantiate with facts:

http://i.imgur.com/x9ePvIA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0JwuOGW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LEP00kz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n9v1P3m.jpg

I certainly know there are many more spots, but that is besides the point. Enjoy using only trebuchets to break into outer and inner of anything. If your lucky the defenders are too stupid to know where to build arrow carts, but I dont rely on the stupidity of my enemy for a win.

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

You should

No.

So its good for your guild then hmmm well at least you think so. Your a very odd leader.

Any way this is all still a knee jerk reaction of some of the player base we still have a lot of ppl who still play WvW and will keep playing WvW for some time. These players can and will adapted as needed to fix the new Arrowcart buff IF and only IF the person whom on the cart has level 15+ in wvw and went all in to arrowcart line.

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

You should

No.

So its good for your guild then hmmm well at least you think so. Your a very odd leader.

Any way this is all still a knee jerk reaction of some of the player base we still have a lot of ppl who still play WvW and will keep playing WvW for some time. These players can and will adapted as needed to fix the new Arrowcart buff IF and only IF the person whom on the cart has level 15+ in wvw and went all in to arrowcart line.

Its not really a knee jerk reaction when we know how 5 arrow carts could effect things pre-patch, and Jackie has all the trait points already in arrow cart mastery for us to see the effects, as shown by his screen shots.

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

Mortemp.6319:

Jski.6180:

Aneu.1748:

Jski.6180:

You should

No.

So its good for your guild then hmmm well at least you think so. Your a very odd leader.

Any way this is all still a knee jerk reaction of some of the player base we still have a lot of ppl who still play WvW and will keep playing WvW for some time. These players can and will adapted as needed to fix the new Arrowcart buff IF and only IF the person whom on the cart has level 15+ in wvw and went all in to arrowcart line.

Its not really a knee jerk reaction when we know how 5 arrow carts could effect things pre-patch, and Jackie has all the trait points already in arrow cart mastery for us to see the effects, as shown by his screen shots.

Well how long has it been out? Has every person here seen what can and cant be done with rams? Has any one try to work out tricks to deal with it? Do we have ppl saying they are quitting because of a changes still with out any real data?
It seems that this is the def of a knee jerk reaction.

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

So much AC lovers that can’t defend a keep with their own character, quite sad.

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of tier 1-2 guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

It definitely is a shaking change; there’s no denying that. It’s the reason why I understand why there is so much dissent. Humans have this psychological resistance to change, it’s innate and can’t be helped.

That said, I can’t tell anyone what they can like or dislike, so at best I can only voice my own opinion on the matter and why I have it. However, even amongst the greatest of dissenters, should they choose to stay, they all eventually adapt to it no matter how much they hated it at first.

It’s a general trend I’ve noticed. It even occurs at even greater scenarios such as the passing of a new law.

Thing is, for guilds that are focused on large scale pvp combat, there isn’t much pathway for us to adapt. There are a few factors why:
- It now takes an extreme amount of effort and time to get into said objective to have a fight over the objective for our pvp
-People on both sides are just dropping arrowcarts mid battle field to kill each other

To the first point, as we get bored and tired of trying to get into an objective to get our one big fight of the night (based on a few reports that it took 2.5+ hours to get into an objective) instead of several a night like before, more and more skirmish guilds will lose players to other games or IRL since they don’t play to sit and siege a keep for 2.5 hours for a 10 minute fight.

To the second point,
Obviously, it’s wvw, so there is siege. We can accept that. But, we as a pvp community aren’t here to fight siege. We’re here to fight people. That is the core of what pvp is.

There may be other points and reasons I haven’t stated, but that is why we see this as game breaking. Because the game for us is the larger scale skirmishes (from 10v10 up to 40v40). It is the reason that keeps us playing the game. Spvp does not accomodate it (anything higher than 10v10), and Arenanet won’t give us GvG. Thus, WvW has been our only option.

This is why many people see this as a bad patch. Because they won’t get their adrenaline filled fast paced fights as much as it used to be anymore.

And thus, my question is: where do we get our fights? Very few other games support a beautiful combat system that GW2 provides that allows for highly coordinated team fights on a large scale.

I honestly hate to simply say “too bad”. That said, WvW is still in the middle of a transition. New strategies might develop that may allow large scale fights without the interference of arrow carts. A well coordinated group away from objectives can spot ex situ arrow carts and destroy them before they’re even built for example.

Additionally, I don’t think WvW changes will stop at arrow carts. I don’t think Anet would want WvW to degenerate into a static siege warfare alone given that the former arrow carts were nerfed from their original strength.

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

and clearly ALL of those people on ALL of those arrow carts had 50 points in them…

Heijincks.9267 – No, you cant “spot and destroy them before their built”…they have 3500 range…they can be built out of reach from even trebs if built at an elevated spot..

Jackie.1829:

Since people wanted me to substantiate with facts:

http://i.imgur.com/x9ePvIA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0JwuOGW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LEP00kz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n9v1P3m.jpg

I certainly know there are many more spots, but that is besides the point. Enjoy using only trebuchets to break into outer and inner of anything. If your lucky the defenders are too stupid to know where to build arrow carts, but I dont rely on the stupidity of my enemy for a win.

PRESS 1 to WIN!! Sick screenshots Jackie

Major props for VoTF for pressing this hard on a serious issue in WvW. I don’t see how this will end well for the more organized guilds as ourselves. We want to fight people ANet, not walls or doors or siege.. BUT ACTUAL PEOPLE.

Well, I gave the changes an honest go. The arrow cart crap is beyond thoughtless and exceeds incompetence. It simply sucks any fun out of this game for me.

Why this isn’t reverted yet speaks volumes about ANET.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Jackie.1829:

Since people wanted me to substantiate with facts:

http://i.imgur.com/x9ePvIA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0JwuOGW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LEP00kz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n9v1P3m.jpg

I certainly know there are many more spots, but that is besides the point. Enjoy using only trebuchets to break into outer and inner of anything. If your lucky the defenders are too stupid to know where to build arrow carts, but I dont rely on the stupidity of my enemy for a win.

PRESS 1 to WIN!! Sick screenshots Jackie

Major props for VoTF for pressing this hard on a serious issue in WvW. I don’t see how this will end well for the more organized guilds as ourselves. We want to fight people ANet, not walls or doors or siege.. BUT ACTUAL PEOPLE.

didn’t you hear? Beating on doors/walls is what actual large scale pvp is about. Not this silly killing of other players… what did you think it was supposed to be a fun game?

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

Regardless any and all points you are making are moot.

It simply isn’t fun.

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

and clearly ALL of those people on ALL of those arrow carts had 50 points in them…

Heijincks.9267 – No, you cant “spot and destroy them before their built”…they have 3500 range…they can be built out of reach from even trebs if built at an elevated spot..

Oooooooh, so now it’s “Arrow carts are overpowered IF you’re a glass cannon, IF the operator is fully traited in the AC line and IF you just stand there”.

Where’s the problem?

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

and clearly ALL of those people on ALL of those arrow carts had 50 points in them…

Heijincks.9267 – No, you cant "spot and destroy them before their built…they have 3500 range…they can be built out of reach from even trebs if built at an elevated spot..

You didn’t read the term “ex situ”, nor did you get the context in which I’m talking in.

i ignored the term, i don’t know the definition of said term, but after looking it up all i have to say is, if you’re kitten enough to put a AC in a dangerous position after the patch…you’re doing it wrong…3500 range, there is NO need to have an AC in a dangerous spot.

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

and clearly ALL of those people on ALL of those arrow carts had 50 points in them…

Heijincks.9267 – No, you cant “spot and destroy them before their built”…they have 3500 range…they can be built out of reach from even trebs if built at an elevated spot..

Oooooooh, so now it’s “Arrow carts are overpowered IF you’re a glass cannon, IF the operator is fully traited in the AC line and IF you just stand there”.

Where’s the problem?

No…those traits only add to the OP….80% damage increase before traits is still OP. as for the rest of your comment…you shouldn’t assume what is being said…because i said nothing that incorperated “glass cannon” “stand still” and just to add to it..“fully traited” (i said 50 points not 75 which is “fully traited”)

Heijincks.9267:

I honestly hate to simply say “too bad”. That said, WvW is still in the middle of a transition. New strategies might develop that may allow large scale fights without the interference of arrow carts. A well coordinated group away from objectives can spot ex situ arrow carts and destroy them before they’re even built for example.

Additionally, I don’t think WvW changes will stop at arrow carts. I don’t think Anet would want WvW to degenerate into a static siege warfare alone given that the former arrow carts were nerfed from their original strength.

Thank you for at least reading and attempting to understand our point of view. I can’t even begin to tell you how frustrating it has been trying to explain this to many others who haven’t bothered reading or tried to see it from our point of view. Especially when we’re called names of things we don’t do or try to promote. It gives me a little bit of hope for the internet community =P. Someone actually read what I wrote!

You are impossibly irrational to the point that discussion with game balance with you is possibly one of the most futile things I have ever attempted.

You bring in anecdotal examles of how you took a keep or SM with your server so therefore it must be balanced. Like me saying I can 1v3 thieves in wvw so thieves need a buff. You then continue to show no foresight because you dont consider the effects of people eventually traiting into AC mastery. There is no proof of whether those arrow carts were superior or not, nor how the skill were used.

What is the point in you….

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

and clearly ALL of those people on ALL of those arrow carts had 50 points in them…

Heijincks.9267 – No, you cant "spot and destroy them before their built…they have 3500 range…they can be built out of reach from even trebs if built at an elevated spot..

You didn’t read the term “ex situ”, nor did you get the context in which I’m talking in.

i ignored the term, i don’t know the definition of said term, but after looking it up all i have to say is, if you’re kitten enough to put a AC in a dangerous position after the patch…you’re doing it wrong…3500 range, there is NO need to have an AC in a dangerous spot.

Again, please read in context. I never said arrow carts had to be built in dangerous positions. I’m saying that open field arrow carts are ex situ arrow carts, and they can be spotted while they are being built.

And you please read the post i wrote, i never said you did claim they had to be built like that…i stated there is NO NEED for them to be built like that since patch hit…. the post i wrote was far from hard to understand.

In that situation then yes sure..i was talking more about during fights at towers/keeps ect ect, but even then, from my experience it is only the more organized guilds that tend to build open field AC’s and while you state organized groups can spot AC build sites and take them down, the same organized guilds can also defend their build sites in the open field.

1. Using siege is god aweful boring
2. Sitting with siege equipment, waiting for people to show up is god aweful boring
3. By making siege the end all be all of wvw tactics (which they are, don’t deny it) you are taking player skill completely out of the equation an build crafting utterly worthless
4. Siege should absolute, 100% of the time be used as supplemental tools, instead we have people throwing arrow carts up in the middle of a field because because 3 guys with one arrow cart can take out a group of 10+
5. A war of attrition is NOT FUN. It’s a videogame for Christs’ sake it DOESN’T HAVE TO BE REALISTIC!

Also, VotF, you need to make a thread about all the ridiculous siege changes, taking a keep or tower is just not fun anymore, and if it wasn’t for my awesome guild, I would have quit lready. I honestly on’t know how much more of this bullkitten I can handle

Lance.5892:

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff.

Thats strange because out of all the guilds i’m in contact with none of them dislike the ac buff, they see it more of a challenge. Oh and those guilds are all the “top” guilds currently playing, except VoTF who seem to have a major hate campaign going for this buff. Maybe it’s you guys that need to learn how to play and not pretend you’re the spokespeople for all guilds, seeing as most think you’re a joke(moreso after seeing all you’ve written here this last week).

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Lance.5892:

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff.

Thats strange because out of all the guilds i’m in contact with none of them dislike the ac buff, they see it more of a challenge. Oh and those guilds are all the “top” guilds currently playing, except VoTF who seem to have a major hate campaign going for this buff. Maybe it’s you guys that need to learn how to play and not pretend you’re the spokespeople for all guilds, seeing as most think you’re a joke(moreso after seeing all you’ve written here this last week).

And your guild is?

Lol @ being told to learn to play.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Lance.5892:

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff.

Thats strange because out of all the guilds i’m in contact with none of them dislike the ac buff, they see it more of a challenge. Oh and those guilds are all the “top” guilds currently playing, except VoTF who seem to have a major hate campaign going for this buff. Maybe it’s you guys that need to learn how to play and not pretend you’re the spokespeople for all guilds, seeing as most think you’re a joke(moreso after seeing all you’ve written here this last week).

Well, I can’t speak for what you’ve heard, but the people who’ve talked to me seem to have a strong belief that the ACs are overpowered and that ANET will eventually reverse it. I for one don’t share that belief that ANET cares enough to reverse it. But that’s a personal opinion of mine.