Guild Wars 2

Jackie.1829:

You are impossibly irrational to the point that discussion with game balance with you is possibly one of the most futile things I have ever attempted.

You bring in anecdotal examles of how you took a keep or SM with your server so therefore it must be balanced. Like me saying I can 1v3 thieves in wvw so thieves need a buff. You then continue to show no foresight because you dont consider the effects of people eventually traiting into AC mastery. There is no proof of whether those arrow carts were superior or not, nor how the skill were used.

What is the point in you….

People are whining about the fact that arrow carts have made WvW unplayable at worst, or a slow and ponderous static battle at best. I’m making fun of them because I can prove that this is not the case.

FULL DISCLAIMER A: Apologies for the background broadcast of the hockey game kitten YOU GRYBAAAAA!!!!). Mute the video if you choose, as sound isn’t relevant.

FULL DISCLAIMER B: Though roughly 20-25 of us assaulted the tower, the call came out to head to Bay (we had the gate or wall or something at 60% according to map chat) and so we did not take it. However, you’ll clearly see that;

1- The attack was, overall, a disaster. Rams were dropped in spite of arrow cart spam, and two people (out of 25 or so) died immediately. The rest of us didn’t kiss the door and, you know, lived.

2- At no time was I even remotely in danger of being killed. My hit points never fell below 14k (out of 24k). I could heal through that damage for a bloody long time using elixirs, my healing kit, and personal healing spell.

3- Our commander actually states at one point “Ok, going to resupply and try this again”. Why? Because though the arrow carts weren’t preventing us from taking the keep outright, they WERE preventing us from taking it easily, which is exactly as it should be.

Beyond all of that, the simple and stark fact is that a) arrow carts didn’t result in a mass slaughter of our attacking force, and b) arrow carts DID force us to back off and try something other than “Drop rams, build build build!”.

I’m really looking forward to the stream of hilarious “Oh that doesn’t count because” arguments from the VOTF crew and their assorted sock puppets….should be good for an awesome larf.

Lance.5892:

Well, I can’t speak for what you’ve heard, but the people who’ve talked to me seem to have a strong belief that the ACs are overpowered and that ANET will eventually reverse it. I for one don’t share that belief that ANET cares enough to reverse it. But that’s a personal opinion of mine.

Sadly anecdotal evidence is about as worthless as can be.

I’ve heard everything from: great :: to :: fine :: to :: meh :: to :: maybe a bit too much :: to :: woah :: to :: q.q too strong. I’ve heard people say: “Hills is impossible to take!” and then give up, only for Hills to be taken shortly after and numerous times after that.

Tone down the range by 500 ticks (to give catapults breathing room, to prevent room top/SMC top siege from hitting ground level) and I say we’re golden. As it stands when I blast open a door, I’m more worried about twelve balista greeting me at a choke than twelve arrow carts.

I dont need to say anything. You are giving me more anecdotal evidence.
Normal arrow cart vs what seems to be a p/v/t specced engineer (lol @ build) and ofc since you dont commit to any form of attack you will not die, what is your point?

I too am capable of running away from damage. Thanks for showing me nothing useful.

I dont know, long term it might be a good thing tbh.
Before if you had 5 or so ac’s at a gate you had to go the treb route basically. The only servers who went to that level in eu were Riverside and vizunah and both were a boring, chore to fight.
It really makes no particular difference with them you couldn’t get within a mile of their keeps before and you still cant
Now every server is a riverside or vizunah because all it takes is 2 ac’s.
Give it a couple of weeks and people will begin to recognise how much it slows the fights down and forces long range attacks which tend to be pretty dull.
It just might force anets hand to find a means of stopping people bunkering down in a keep never leaving and hiding behind a mountain of siege. Its obviously a really bad step in the wrong direction but it puts every server on the same level of annoyance.

Personally i find the extra range to be the most broken part of the patch, it just cuts down on the positions to cata from drastically and you really have to be ultra careful with placement, tiniest bit too short and it’ll die.
Haven’t had a chance to try the extra radius but i presume it’ll make things even worse

Jackie.1829:

And your guild is?

I dont see what what guild i’m in matters to this discussion. I have played with and against all the top guilds in the EU bracket and in that time i have made many contacts with all of them, mostly the guild/raid leaders and officers(these are the ones saying it’s a challenge easily overcome with tactics, not totally overpowered unless you’re a dumb zerg).

Siege of Wildcreek tonight.

Defenders inside roughly matching the attackers’ numbers (~12 each side).
Three catapults built inside the Dredge tunnel along with 2 ballista and 1 arrow cart for point defense.
Wall falls.
Attackers move to the breach, double dodge roll through the rain of arrows from 4 carts.
Attackers storm the stairs to the wall.
Defenders retreat and stack in the lord’s room.
Attackers push up.
Lords’ room battle ensues.
Attackers are eventually victorious.
Attackers destroy the defenders’ 4 arrow carts after capping the tower.
Two casualties on the attackers’ side; neither are from arrow carts.

Impact of arrow carts on this siege? Zero; played out like any other pre-patch siege of Wildcreek Tower.

It’s one siege of one tower and is not demonstrative of all sieges everywhere. However, I’m hearing from friends, guildmates, and allies that the sieges they’ve been involved in are largely playing out the same way; the change to the arrow carts are having nearly zero impact.

The only change noticed so far? Fewer mindless zergs at the gates. Battles are being fought between roughly equal numbers and the battles are not being decided solely by numerical superiority.

Thank you, ArenaNet

covenn.7165:

FractalChaos.6539:

Phunk.6103:

FractalChaos.6539:

Loken.9724:

VOTF Please keep this up. The change to the arrow carts sucks.

My guild is having exactly 9 billion % less fun in wvw.

Also before some idiot replys with ‘stop zerging’ My guild fields 20 when im on usually, we run private comms and tell pugs to leave us the kitten alone. 20 people taking 1 tower? sure give me 19 trebs and 12 hours. I’ll get it down eventually.

QQ

SoR took Stonemist from Blackgate tonight in under 30 minutes in spite of them having tons of ACs.

Please explain this, given the current hysteria surrounding arrow carts.

Probably because BG are 40k ahead of SoR…and SoR pose no threat…

So because we’re not a threat, their arrow carts couldn’t hurt us? Because the rather prodigious number of Blackgate defenders were really spamming the heck outta those arrow carts, and yet…

Regardless any and all points you are making are moot.

It simply isn’t fun.

Fun is subjective; I think it is, and so do a helluva lotta people. “Not fun to you” does not equal broken. Rap your noggin’ round that.

Jackie.1829:

I dont need to say anything. You are giving me more anecdotal evidence.
Normal arrow cart vs what seems to be a p/v/t specced engineer (lol @ build) and ofc since you dont commit to any form of attack you will not die, what is your point?

I too am capable of running away from damage. Thanks for showing me nothing useful.

Except I didn’t run away, I stood in it for upwards of 60 seconds, and didn’t die. Again; you’re wrong. You’ll feel better when you say it, I assure you.

EDIT: And as far as my build amusing you, I am glad you find it so much fun! It basically lets me stake enemies even when their allies try to stop me, and lets me rez my guys even when enemies try to stop me. I excel at both roles, even moreso than Guardians. The fact you’re not able to see the value in that speaks VOLUMES about why you can’t get around this arrow cart stuff.

This was a fun little experiment Anet, but please revert arrow carts back to how they were.

This evening we used two superior arrow carts to melt 30 people without many of us even attacking. It was pathetic.

Reset night is going to consist of flash building arrow carts all night in the open field, and that’s not what they should be used for.

UCF Knight.8095:

This was a fun little experiment Anet, but please revert arrow carts back to how they were.

This evening we used two superior arrow carts to melt 30 people without many of us even attacking. It was pathetic.

Reset night is going to consist of flash building arrow carts all night in the open field, and that’s not what they should be used for.

The thing is even if they revert arrow carts back there still the WvW AC line what do you do with that? Do you just make a stander 1% some ranges up and keep the max level? What you seem not to understand AC have always been a means of dealing with mass numbers and they are NOT going away just because they may of been over buffed. They are going to still be a hard counter to zergs as they should because that why they are in the game in the first places. You cant bleed a wall nor a door or any type of non living target. If you want numbers to be the only thing about this game (FA dose not have numbers we have tactic) then there needs to be something to deal with them. A cata will not do this nor will a treb or blista its up to one weapon and that an AC.
VK is a good guild and they have great commanders but to think they cant think of ways to deal with AC that have been in the game as is it tells us a few things. First your on your own here trying to prove points not held by your guild and or other commanders or you have in the past simply ignored AC when running to take keeps and tower showing that AC NEEDED and buff.
We have weapons in WvW they are not going away each one has there use and there main use should be strong if things like AC where doing nothing to stop living targets then out of all the weapons it was the worst. A ram is good at destroying doors cata are good at destroying walls at mid ranges trebs are good at destroying walls (mostly) at long ranges Golmes are good at being able to move and destroying door and blista are good at destroying other wepons of WvW. If any of these stop being good at what they are made for then they need a buff.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Lance.5892:

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff.

Thats strange because out of all the guilds i’m in contact with none of them dislike the ac buff, they see it more of a challenge. Oh and those guilds are all the “top” guilds currently playing, except VoTF who seem to have a major hate campaign going for this buff. Maybe it’s you guys that need to learn how to play and not pretend you’re the spokespeople for all guilds, seeing as most think you’re a joke(moreso after seeing all you’ve written here this last week).

Could you name some of these guilds that are top guilds and like the change?
Or is lieing more convenient?

Anyway… all the top guilds from JS dislike this change. And judging by how they don’t attack keeps anymore, at least 2 top guilds from Elona Bief (GD, GL). And counting.

I don’t want to be over dramatic but I’m just going to say it. This patch changed the pace of wvw to a point that it is simply not enjoyable. I’m sure every reason why has been pointed out here, but I simply lack the interest in getting in extended siege wars whether or not its simply a matter of me adapting. I give it about 1 week with the current patch before I get bored and leave.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Siege of Wildcreek tonight.

Defenders inside roughly matching the attackers’ numbers (~12 each side).
Three catapults built inside the Dredge tunnel along with 2 ballista and 1 arrow cart for point defense.
Wall falls.
Attackers move to the breach, double dodge roll through the rain of arrows from 4 carts.
Attackers storm the stairs to the wall.
Defenders retreat and stack in the lord’s room.
Attackers push up.
Lords’ room battle ensues.
Attackers are eventually victorious.
Attackers destroy the defenders’ 4 arrow carts after capping the tower.
Two casualties on the attackers’ side; neither are from arrow carts.

Impact of arrow carts on this siege? Zero; played out like any other pre-patch siege of Wildcreek Tower.

It’s one siege of one tower and is not demonstrative of all sieges everywhere. However, I’m hearing from friends, guildmates, and allies that the sieges they’ve been involved in are largely playing out the same way; the change to the arrow carts are having nearly zero impact.

The only change noticed so far? Fewer mindless zergs at the gates. Battles are being fought between roughly equal numbers and the battles are not being decided solely by numerical superiority.

Thank you, ArenaNet

Imo you’re really saying it all in this post.

The defenders were ultra low players.

Only 4 AC?
No AC in the lord’s room?
No one blocking the way to let AC do their job?

And the sad thing is that Anet is balancing its game around the baddies :/

RIP GW2 for everyone except poorly organised that couldn’t even assist with the pre buff AC.
Was fun.

Psykoyul.9147:

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Lance.5892:

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of EU guilds and tier 1-2 NA guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff.

Thats strange because out of all the guilds i’m in contact with none of them dislike the ac buff, they see it more of a challenge. Oh and those guilds are all the “top” guilds currently playing, except VoTF who seem to have a major hate campaign going for this buff. Maybe it’s you guys that need to learn how to play and not pretend you’re the spokespeople for all guilds, seeing as most think you’re a joke(moreso after seeing all you’ve written here this last week).

Could you name some of these guilds that are top guilds and like the change?
Or is lieing more convenient?

Anyway… all the top guilds from JS dislike this change. And judging by how they don’t attack keeps anymore, at least 2 top guilds from Elona Bief (GD, GL). And counting.

All that means is that the top guilds on JS and the 2 top guilds from Elona are as inept in WvW as yours is.

Once again, with feeling;

Arrow carts are easy to deal with. Period. Lurn too pley.

New thread named " Titles no longer display in WvW"

Anet responds on the thread after 2 hours and 4 posts

I rest my case.

As someone who spends a lot of time building and using defensive siege, this change was completely unnecessary and over the top. The arrowcart mastery alone might be fine, but the additional damage is just dumb. 2-3k damage per second in a 50 person aoe… My guild is rather well known for our defensive siege on our server, and even we aren’t delusional enough to think this is remotely balanced.

Well, open field combat has devolved now into “who can build the first AC.”

Whoever gets the first AC built in the field wins the fight.

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

just a thought, and i’m not disagreeing:
perhaps it’s anet’s way of making it less about zerg and more about thought?
you can’t just kitten a tower or keep anymore can ya?

Jski.6180:

You’ve lost me on quite a bit of what you said there. I appreciate the kind words toward VK though.

As for arrow carts, they have reached a point where they outperform any type of organized group. Like I said previously, open field fights will now be games of ‘who can build the arrow cart the fastest’. That’s not my opinion, that’s very evident from what I’ve seen since the update.

My opinion is that siege wars is not much fun at all and that arrow carts will take the fun out of many aspects of the game. I spent much of today not fighting people, but avoiding their arrow carts. If this is a nice change for you and others, that’s great. I just know I’ll enjoy WvW a lot less to the point that I may stop playing. I’m not presenting anything here that can be argued, the change has had a noticeable affect on the game and I’m not a fan. It’s as simple as that.

Lightsbane.9012:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

just a thought, and i’m not disagreeing:
perhaps it’s anet’s way of making it less about zerg and more about thought?
you can’t just kitten a tower or keep anymore can ya?

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Yeah…because THAT’S fun.

ANet must be on to something because, yaknow, that whole pesky fighting thing was annoying anyway.

/sarcasm

FractalChaos.6539:

Once again, with feeling;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H55Vruof0EU

Arrow carts are easy to deal with. Period. Lurn too pley.

Proving once again that in-game experience, facts, and proof trump forum warrior QQ-ing, theorycrafting, and whining.

If arrow carts weren’t a problem for you before, they won’t be a problem for you now. On the other hand, if you’re having trouble with arrow carts and trying to blame your difficulties on the patch, then I guess complaining about it on a forum is easier than learning how to counter this particular siege weapon.

Thanks, FractalChaos, for the video. Keep ’em coming.

Hickeroar.9734:

Well, open field combat has devolved now into “who can build the first AC.”

Whoever gets the first AC built in the field wins the fight.

That not true you can move away from AC as needed being that they are fixed weapons. You can pull back and set up blasta to counter there AC. You can also out smart the ppl using the AC by mez porting onto the carts them self or by hitting from more then one way. If your attking the other team in a bottle neck you should lose a fight.

@UCF Knight.8095
What i was going on about the main idea is that if ppl had not work out a counter for AC or a way to deal with them by now then AC have been UP for some time. An AC must make a dent in players to be of worth because they are not useful to take down walls doors or other weapons in wvw.
WvW is not about the class you play nor about what level you are nor about your gear its about team work in both putting down weapons AND knowing when the presser other teams weapons.

Open battle with AC is easily dealt with (i said in this post before i read yous) by using blista that can nearly one shot AC. AC are still fixed weapons until they work out how to put an AC on a golmes head you can simply move out of the way of the AC to deal with it. The stealth trick works well on dealing with AC even though they have means of taking stealth off because its more about tricking the players on the AC to fire off there shots. It becomes a game of anticipation as war like games should be.

That is part of the fun working as a team to get something done and WvW weapons are a major part of this team work. One person cant make any type of weapon but a group of ppl can. This level of team work needs a higher level of communication then the stander pve game play of any mmorpg out there. It may not be fun to sit back from time to time but that is part of the ebb and flow of a battle. Is it good for your team to just rush in for blood to mean the other team comply on an even playing field? The idea is to fight the other team on your own terms AND these terms must be in your favor or your leading your team mates into a death trap. It may be fun dieing doing crazy things from time to time but if it happens over and over the fun will be comply lost as well with your team mates confidence with your leadership.

graverr.6473:

New thread named " Titles no longer display in WvW"

Anet responds on the thread after 2 hours and 4 posts

I rest my case.

Its obvious they are watching this thread, they keep merging things in.

They probably don’t have anything to post right now because they are figuring it all out and seeing if it really needs to be changed again. If it needs to be changed then the question is ‘how much’.

Hickeroar.9734:

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Yeah…because THAT’S fun.

ANet must be on to something because, yaknow, that whole pesky fighting thing was annoying anyway.

/sarcasm

This is a great post. I can’t return to this thread because the irony in some of the other posts might kill me. But this was great.

Hickeroar.9734:

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Try a few shots. Two treb shots will kill an AC, they splash too!

Exaggerating doesn’t really help you…

Its all becoming way,way to dependant on sieges.With all honesty,strategy games use less sieges than gw does( Medieval total war,Shogun totalwar 2,are nothing compared to guild wars sieges…).Am i playing an mmo or a siegewarfare game ? Soon we wont be needed to use any skill at all..
Let us all run around naked and paste an Arrow cart on our backs.

Vena.8436:

Hickeroar.9734:

No, instead you have to sit back and treb for hours to make sure you take out all their siege before you can go in.

Try a few shots. Two treb shots will kill an AC, they splash too!

Exaggerating doesn’t really help you…

Because there is often one arrow cart guarding a tower, and it’s soooo difficult to pop up one, two, or ten more.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

Jackie.1829:

And your guild is?

I dont see what what guild i’m in matters to this discussion. I have played with and against all the top guilds in the EU bracket and in that time i have made many contacts with all of them, mostly the guild/raid leaders and officers(these are the ones saying it’s a challenge easily overcome with tactics, not totally overpowered unless you’re a dumb zerg).

Could you please refer me to those top guilds ?

UCF Knight.8095:

Because there is often one arrow cart guarding a tower, and it’s soooo difficult to pop up one, two, or ten more.

Where is this magical 400 supply coming from? Did the treb magically disappear? Why don’t the attackers just build 4 trebs then (since we’re apparently making up supply out of thin air) and get the job done all the fast? Good luck counter trebbing four flash built trebs.

*Made a slight supply amount mistake. Fixed it!

Guys, can we please freeze this thread while I’m sleeping. I really hate missing out on all the fun.

P.S. AC’s are OP

1. you do not go you war unarmed and expect the enemy to do the same
2. siege weapons are meant to be fear inducing and devastating

arrow carts are actually balanced and breaks that everyone ball up together routine dont wanna die/take too much damage pop in one or 2 blocks and invulnerability and/or simply dont be pure glass cannon.

as it was using arrow carts was worthless since they did less than average damage the player would ve done simply attacking on his own now they actually feel like siege.

graverr.6473:

FractalChaos.6539:

acs are not OP they are fun …..stuff..meant to play..more stuff..booring video…lurn too pley

What did you want to actually prove with that video except that the defenders are bad bad bad? They looked like they had 2 or 3 acs and not even superior.Try harder next time .Even in t3 we get superior 6-8 arrowcart on any gate /chokepoint all the times.My guardian hits 3k ticks with a superior AC .5 sup acs = 15k PER SECOND 8 superior Acs =24 k per second u mad ?I will just ignore you and move on .Carebear on an arrowcart on a booring pvdoor action wants to prove a point ppl lol at your attempt.

I called it; all the “Oh that doesn’t count because” justification is pretty weak.

A very loud and strident minority of players has been freaking out about this AC buff since the patch was announced let alone deployed.

“Arrow carts make taking a tower or keep impossible now!” Proven wrong same day patch was deployed.

“Good luck taking Hills! That’s IMPOSSIBLE now!” Proven wrong same day.

“Getting through a chokepoint guarded by ACs is IMPOSSIBLE now!!”Proven wrong same day.

“Arrow carts in the open field will wreck zergs, open field PVP is IMPOSSIBLE now!!” Proven wrong same day.

How often do people have to come into this thread and prove to you that all those statements are false before you finally figure out you’re wrong?

PS: My WvW ppponents are Jade Quarry and Blackgate, and even though I hate them, I dare say they offer more of a challenge than any of you ever would, so think twice before calling them “bads”…you bads.

You. Are. Wrong.

FractalChaos.6539:

A very loud and strident minority of players has been freaking out about this AC buff since the patch was announced let alone deployed.

Not exactly true. A lot of players and their guilds have expressed concern, it is not really a minority. It is just the minority that kept posting and complaining (mainly me).

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

FractalChaos.6539:

Once again, with feeling;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H55Vruof0EU

Arrow carts are easy to deal with. Period. Lurn too pley.

Proving once again that in-game experience, facts, and proof trump forum warrior QQ-ing, theorycrafting, and whining.

If arrow carts weren’t a problem for you before, they won’t be a problem for you now. On the other hand, if you’re having trouble with arrow carts and trying to blame your difficulties on the patch, then I guess complaining about it on a forum is easier than learning how to counter this particular siege weapon.

Thanks, FractalChaos, for the video. Keep ’em coming.

Oh I am frapsing tons and putting together a playlist of me deliberately running into the thickest concentration of arrow cart fire and waltzing out again. Different towers, different keeps.. ;-) What’s really funny is that I’ll probably STILL hear a lot of “The guys on the ACs were noobs” even though they’re all T1 players and probably have more points in AC traits than any of these…er…“PvP” players.

I think I may call my film “As I skip daintily ’tween your Nipples” in honor of my being the nipple in an arrow cart circle. =P

Vena.8436:

The supply comes from the supply camps. Or even garrisons sometimes. I know I know, the journey between a hills and garrison waypoint can be extraordinarily long, but it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that teams could just sit in arrow carts for a couple hours in waypointed keeps or towers near a garrison.

You bring up a good point though. The other team could just build four trebs. That is much more fun and tactical than other alternatives.

I know my favorite times in WvW have been spent trebbing hills, and thankfully now with this update, I can share this same experience with nearly every keep, tower, and maybe even supply camp.

You WvW pros are doing a great job of making these noobs see the light. Remember, whoever disagrees with you is only doing so because they don’t have your l33t skills. Other viewpoints and directions for the game are inherently and objectively wrong.

And with that, I’m done with this thread.

You do realise that there are no AC in the vid shown right?
2 or 3, maybe 4, poorly placed and even poorlier used… they don’t even shoot the ram plan…

Seriously guys… you don’t have a clue on how a good defense is set, right that’s not a problem. But don’t argue with people knowing what they’re talking about… specially if it’s to end with this ridiculous type of vids…

I feel fairly certain in saying that the guilds, which might not be as “pro” as seems to be the requirement in this thread, in Piken Square are all hating this change.

Forcing everyone to blob up to do hours of boring siege warfare, requiring skill or not, is no fun to the small-med guilds running around the field in Piken used to taking on the odds.

UCF Knight.8095:

The supply comes from the supply camps. Or even garrisons sometimes. I know I know, the journey between a hills and garrison waypoint can be extraordinarily long, but it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that teams could just sit in arrow carts for a couple hours in waypointed keeps or towers near a garrison.

You bring up a good point though. The other team could just build four trebs. That is much more fun and tactical than other alternatives.

I know my favorite times in WvW have been spent trebbing hills, and thankfully now with this update, I can share this same experience with nearly every keep, tower, and maybe even supply camp.

You WvW pros are doing a great job of making these noobs see the light. Remember, whoever disagrees with you is only doing so because they don’t have your l33t skills. Other viewpoints and directions for the game are inherently and objectively wrong.

And with that, I’m done with this thread.

If its being trebbed, no waypoint.
If its a tower, no waypoint.
If its being trebbed, the camps are flipped and cut off.
You’re not thinking straight and making up some rather silly nonsense here, aside from dismissing my opinion via condescending ad hominem.

My point on the four trebs was an attempt at tongue in cheek at your rather shortsighted magical conjuring of 400 supply in a flash to rebuild destroyed siege without ever once addressing the fate of the destroyer.

FractalChaos.6539:

What’s really funny is that I’ll probably STILL hear a lot of “The guys on the ACs were noobs” even though they’re all T1 players and probably have more points in AC traits than any of these…er…“PvP” players.

I think I may call my film “As I skip daintily ’tween your Nipples” in honor of my being the nipple in an arrow cart circle. =P

Make all the videos you want, anecdotal evidence is exactly that. Being in T1 has nothing to do with any form of skill. I just need to look at your video to see that, a bad engi in p/v/t gear running no stun break or stability, has no group, runs no consumables and is in no notable guild. Even runs turrets (I really did lol, you do know nothing about the class).

I already showed in my screenshot I have the arrowcart mastery maxed out entirely, so discussing my wrank is of little relevance.

There is a reason after all that game balance discussion in gw1 was limited to the top players and it had no official forums, its because people like you spout nonsense with regards to game balance.

Shame they failed so hard with the sequel, guess after all we do pay the same amount of cash so unfortunately we get to voice equal opinion, oh well.

Reann.9480:

I feel fairly certain in saying that the guilds, which might not be as “pro” as seems to be the requirement in this thread, in Piken Square are all hating this change.

Forcing everyone to blob up to do hours of boring siege warfare, requiring skill or not, is no fun to the small-med guilds running around the field in Piken used to taking on the odds.

Theres no requirement for anything to post in this thread. Only that you play guild wars 2

and hopefully wvw… =P

Reason why I and a few other mentioned “guilds” not liking the change is because guilds are groups of players that represent a large majority of the wvw player base that plays the game many days of the week if not every day.

No matter how much you love Anet or Guild Wars 2, they have and they will make many mistakes. You don’t have to kiss Anet’s kitten up and down the forums just because people are upset over a change made in game.

If you play WvW for the pvp, then you would realize how dumb this change really is. Siege should support the players, not the other way around.

Anyways, I support this thread and the guild VoTF for speaking up on this god awful buff to arrowcarts. Arenanet needs to man up and address this situation soon as WvW is losing what little fun was left in it.

Reann.9480:

I feel fairly certain in saying that the guilds, which might not be as “pro” as seems to be the requirement in this thread, in Piken Square are all hating this change.

Forcing everyone to blob up to do hours of boring siege warfare, requiring skill or not, is no fun to the small-med guilds running around the field in Piken used to taking on the odds.

There never was a requirement to be “pro” and no guild has claimed they were pro.
I can understand how the patch destroys it for your guilds and I really feel for you. I’m glad that you speak up here.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Proving once again that in-game experience, facts, and proof trump forum warrior QQ-ing, theorycrafting, and whining.

I take it you haven’t watched the video, clearly there are not many arrow carts there, clearly they are not placed very well, clearly they are being manned by players who are not playing very smart. Plus there’s no indication of how much any of the defenders have got in arrow cart mastery if anything.

I’m on the same server as fractal chaos but the people I run with on SOR are very concerned about the change.

Caliban.3176:

Reann.9480:

I feel fairly certain in saying that the guilds, which might not be as “pro” as seems to be the requirement in this thread, in Piken Square are all hating this change.

Forcing everyone to blob up to do hours of boring siege warfare, requiring skill or not, is no fun to the small-med guilds running around the field in Piken used to taking on the odds.

There never was a requirement to be “pro” and no guild has claimed they were pro.
I can understand how the patch destroys it for your guilds and I really feel for you. I’m glad that you speak up here.

All the guilds on Piken Square really are pro .Any aspiring or respectable WvW guild out there should at least once take a holiday in their tier to experience the best fights.Fun unique experience and learning guaranteed.

graverr.6473:

All the guilds on Piken Square really are pro .Any aspiring or respectable WvW guild out there should at least once take a holiday in their tier to experience the best fights.Fun unique experience and learning guaranteed.

Or go to tier 1, 2 and 3 in America and meet all the people enjoying this change, making sure that world versus world i dead in a months time -.-

Yeah, I kinda meant it as a sarcastic comment since we do not know what the “pro” guilds who are happy with this new “challenge” still are. I don’t know any, but I’m no “pro” so…

Reann.9480:

Yeah, I kinda meant it as a sarcastic comment since we do not know what the “pro” guilds who are happy with this new “challenge” still are. I don’t know any, but I’m no “pro” so…

I know you meant it sarcastically but others have been using comments like that to discredit us and support this ridiculous buff.

I love the change of arrowcarts, now make catapults able to be usable outside of AC-range again

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love the change of arrowcarts, now make catapults able to be usable outside of AC-range again

Buff trebs and catas 80 % now and give them 33% more range like ACs.Yup that willmake things even.

Psykoyul.9147:

You do realise that there are no AC in the vid shown right?
2 or 3, maybe 4, poorly placed and even poorlier used… they don’t even shoot the ram plan…

Seriously guys… you don’t have a clue on how a good defense is set, right that’s not a problem. But don’t argue with people knowing what they’re talking about… specially if it’s to end with this ridiculous type of vids…

“You do realise that there are no AC in the vid shown right?” Of course there are; I’m standing in the red circles the whole time. It’s plainly visible.

“2 or 3, maybe 4” Well which is it? No AC, as you stated +in the previous sentence+ (!!!!) or are there 2,3, maybe 4? Which one is it? Getting your facts straight when trying to rebut someone’s argument is pretty vital in any debate.

" poorly placed" Who cares where they are placed?? THEY’RE ALL HITTING ME!!!! How would their placement make them more effective? Arrow carts hit you, or they don’t. If they do, then they’re in the right spot. They wouldn’t do more damage to me because someone had tucked them away 2 feet to the left. Do you think about what you write before you write it?

And how do you use an arrow cart poorly? You form a group, you assist, and you all fire repeatedly for maximum effect. mixing in your bleeds with your snares. It’s not particularly hard to grasp._

“They don’t even shoot the ram plan…” At 0:42 you can clearly see the arrows raining down on the ram, killing the two operators (poor widdle Asura). The ram goes down at 1:08. Please try not to lie when it’s so easy for me to make you look silly.

I’m still waiting to see video proof that arrow carts are making it impossible to capture keeps or towers, or to fight in open field, or to take a supply camp. Screenshots are not acceptable, I don’t put it past you lot to photoshop a 70k AC crit into a screenshot.

Video proof please; I did it. Why can’t you?