Guild Wars 2

If they are doing next to no damage, as you yourself say, why is it a problem?

Forzani.2584:

Lauranda.1342:

Are we using ACs wrong? During our down time, one of the other servers runs 40-50 man zergs to take our bl. We often have 3-4 ACs set up at the a gate. And they are nothing more than a nuisance to the enemy (they still plow through and take our fortification). Are we using them wrong or are they really not all that powerful as everyone is making them out to be?

According to the forums apparently you are. 1 AC > 40 man zerg….and you had 3-4 ACs up ? Obviously a L2 kitten ue.

The best part is that when you supply proof that ACs aren’t the magnetometric guided charges that everyone tells you they are, you’re told “That’s because the noobs shooting at you weren’t using them properly and didn’t place them properly”.

These same people also claim that the AC buff has “dumbed down” WvW so much that people only need to man an AC and press 1-2-3 to win. Well if it’s so easy, how can “noobs” not be “using them properly”? And how does arrow cart placement affect its use? It can either hit me, or it can’t. If it’s hitting me, it’s doing so for full damage. Where the AC is located is totally unimportant.

Preacher.9018:

Caliban.3176:

Preacher.9018:

So much whining. It was a good change. Now they need to buff other siege weapons too.

Something terrible must have happened to SFR since we left because it is very hard to see how anyone who advertises www.pevepe.net in his signature really believes that this was a good change. I remember when the SFR community was filled to the brim with people who enjoyed good fights and actual balanced action.

This was a horrible patch and every day more people come here to say just that. The meta has really changed for the worse. The game has come to a stop, there is a stalemate. Things still flip indeed but only when there is either a huge zerg attacking, there are no defenders or there is a very long and boring siege. No way anyone could say that those results are something the game needed.

I do not “advertise” it. I created it and FUBAR alliance since the beginning and run the organization until my guild left for Darkfall in december.

WvW is a Strategy game. Siege weapons are integral part of it, were since beginning. At release everyone had to fight through Stonemist top floor with dozens of ACs/Ballistas and only one shallow entrance and still won. Organized competition involved lots of siege weapons/counters and effective defences and attacks from both sides. Sorry, but i cant take seriously anyone whining about how “arrowcarts (and siege weapons in general) kill wvw”. If anything, it just shows sad state of WvW where whole metagame degraded to running with single zerg, not putting siege/not defending anything and just trading objectives.

GOOD siege is where you assult a keep with 5 trebs, defending positions with ballistas and bringing supplies where every single counts, fighting through enemy defences/counter treb/mortars/ballistas blocking the entrance/arrow cart fire, where enemy has to try to get out and attack YOUR defended positions outside to not allow walls to be destroyed etc.

People that think WvW is just about getting in groups and fighting each other similarly as in SPVP, just with larger groups – dont really get a point of WvW. Its a strategy game, a WAR.

pevepe.net was created in a first place, to improve level of tactical/strategical cooperation and advance the server over just being pugs/guilds running around aimlessly killing people.

I love siege weapons. If anything, i`d love more variety and more uses for them, for both defending and attacking side. In fact, i was against changing the above described SM situation, with boss on top and hell lot of weapons – since changing it made taking SM trivial and boring task and holding it irrelevant.

Please dont think that you with your whining, represent majority of “expirienced wvw players”

Sincere applause from me. Very well said.

WvW = large scale, OBJECTIVE-BASED WARFARE. Taking and defending/holding keeps and camps is the whole point; siege warfare is an absolute must. If you don’t think so, you’re simply playing the wrong game.

Nightingale.8364:

If they are doing next to no damage, as you yourself say, why is it a problem?

Well first it makes the wight sword show up before you can get your rams up it also makes it more likely for the oranges sword show up. It draws ppl attention from who ontop of the wall to just spamming buttons into the door (if your not on a ram etc.. you should be supporting ppl on the ram one way or another mainly by attking ppl on the wall.) It also puts you closer to the door then the person on the ram so the ppl right on the door will get hit by every type of weapon they have placed.

Nothing more to add.

Caliban.3176:

The zergs existed before, but it was still viable to run in smaller groups. That last part has been destroyed in this last patch.

I still run in 5-10 man groups in both Eternal and BL. Before the patch, you could pretty much ignore ACs. Now, you have to account for them and deal with them.

What people seem to be upset about is they can’t steamroll everything with their 40-man zerg any more. Guess what? That was the point of the AC buff!!!! Before, if a 40-man zerg rolled up to a tower w/ < 10 defenders, unless the others on the map rallied REAL FAST and came to wipe the zerg, the tower was lost (PVDoor anyone?). Now, 4 well-placed ACs can defend the tower, at least long enough for help to arrive, and it seems the zerglings are QQing about it. CHANGE TACTICS!!! THINK!!!! There are ways around this, just be creative (1 ballista shot will take out an AC, 1 treb shot will take out an AC, etc).

The only “mistake” Anet made in this patch was AC’s are too effective against enemy siege, and they admitted it and are going to address it. Beyond that, the real issue here is some folks just can’t seem to adapt.

Here is what I say Anet does that will make it a great compromise for all. Keep the damage buff, it really isn’t all that powerful against (good) players, but REMOVE the damage it does to siege. Then, add another AC skill, perhaps replacing the one that you get from ranks already with one called “fire arrows” or something similar, that CAN damage siege. Give it an appropriate cooldown and BAM. AC’s are balanced.

FractalChaos.6539:

WvW = large scale, OBJECTIVE-BASED WARFARE. Taking and defending/holding keeps and camps is the whole point; siege warfare is an absolute must. If you don’t think so, you’re simply playing the wrong game.

Or it is actually the game which is taking the wrong approach. Which is actually what is happening right here.

The range is FAR TOO OP. Arrow farts should not have the same range as a kitten ballista. What’s the point of even building a ballista to counter siege if Arrow farts have taken that role? And it can shoot over walls!

Lead.1784:

Here is what I say Anet does that will make it a great compromise for all. Keep the damage buff, it really isn’t all that powerful against (good) players, but REMOVE the damage it does to siege. Then, add another AC skill, perhaps replacing the one that you get from ranks already with one called “fire arrows” or something similar, that CAN damage siege. Give it an appropriate cooldown and BAM. AC’s are balanced.

The only problem with that is AC are the only ways to hit trebs at some places even blisa cant hit them due to line of sight. I am in favor more for making it so you can no longer glitch places AC on the side of the wall outside of aoe ranges. They could add in a non line of sight attk on blisa that fire over walls but is a very long windup so it cant be used to hit moving targets but low cd to where they can be used to truly counter other weapons of wvw..

FractalChaos.6539:

WvW = large scale, OBJECTIVE-BASED WARFARE. Taking and defending/holding keeps and camps is the whole point; siege warfare is an absolute must. If you don’t think so, you’re simply playing the wrong game.

lineage 2 , wow , aoc ( and more mmo ) have sieges with none or limited usage of siege weapons …..

what about siege warfare you said ???

in l2 i was in sieges with more than 500 people in an area and we had only golems

( only for gates and walls ) that cost a small fortune .

it was enjoyable …. ? most of the times was real hell

It’s been about a week and a half now since this change was implemented.

In spite of everyone crying that the sky was falling and sieges would be impossible, people are still losing their towers and keeps even when defended by these “OP” arrow carts. At what point are people going to realize that they aren’t nearly as OP as everyone is saying? The facts just don’t support it.

What it has done is made people change their tactics and not just zerg up to a gate, throw some rams and rush a keep in 5 minutes.

The arrow cart damage is fine. The only remaining problem with them is that they melt other siege too quickly. So instead of nerfing carts, buff the other siege to be a bit tougher. Give siege a passive resistance to arrow cart fire. Give the person manning a flame ram a 50% damage reduction from siege. Arrow carts are meant to be anti-personnel anyways, not anti siege.

Jackie.1829:

FractalChaos.6539:

WvW = large scale, OBJECTIVE-BASED WARFARE. Taking and defending/holding keeps and camps is the whole point; siege warfare is an absolute must. If you don’t think so, you’re simply playing the wrong game.

Or it is actually the game which is taking the wrong approach. Which is actually what is happening right here.

No, it’s not. WvW was designed form the ground up to be objective-based, with keeps and towers and supply camps that have chokepoints, walls, and gates that need to be guarded or broken down. It’s been part of WvW design since the very beginning.

Pretending that you didn’t know that’s how it was, and that all this “siege stuff” is a new and unwelcome intrusion…yeah, you’re playing the wrong game.

Reborn.2934:

FractalChaos.6539:

WvW = large scale, OBJECTIVE-BASED WARFARE. Taking and defending/holding keeps and camps is the whole point; siege warfare is an absolute must. If you don’t think so, you’re simply playing the wrong game.

lineage 2 , wow , aoc ( and more mmo ) have sieges with none or limited usage of siege weapons …..

Then may I suggest you play those games, since “siegeless siege warfare” seems to appeal to you?

Guild Wars 2 has had siege weapons as part of the overall basic WvW design since the beginning. They’re not going away.

FractalChaos.6539:

Reborn.2934:

FractalChaos.6539:

WvW = large scale, OBJECTIVE-BASED WARFARE. Taking and defending/holding keeps and camps is the whole point; siege warfare is an absolute must. If you don’t think so, you’re simply playing the wrong game.

lineage 2 , wow , aoc ( and more mmo ) have sieges with none or limited usage of siege weapons …..

Then may I suggest you play those games, since “siegeless siege warfare” seems to appeal to you?

Guild Wars 2 has had siege weapons as part of the overall basic WvW design since the beginning. They’re not going away.

i have played a lot these games and the door is closed . maybe i will give a try to the new siege game out there that is darkfall , but i will wait to see how this debate will end.

until now everything is reverse-able to the right direction as siege weapons based mmo , if not i will move on and not alone . i will take many with me

The Rooster.2615:

The arrow cart damage is fine. The only remaining problem with them is that they melt other siege too quickly. So instead of nerfing carts, buff the other siege to be a bit tougher. Give siege a passive resistance to arrow cart fire. Give the person manning a flame ram a 50% damage reduction from siege. Arrow carts are meant to be anti-personnel anyways, not anti siege.

I think more and more people are slowly coming around to this school of thinking. They hurt….bad. But they have turned out not to be as bad as the initial stuff…mainly because people have learned to play a little different.

The problem is just….dat siege…

The range is the worst thing…

Dang it I tried to push this kittening thread to page two by making a useless comment in my server match thread. You had to go and bring it back.

Reborn.2934:

Caliban.3176:

Reborn.2934:

Aneu.1748:

Level 1 siege bunker removes 1% of the damage.

and level 5 reduces 5% . so ?

until now i and my mates near me never die from ac’s whatever ac force we faced . downed some , but rezzed inside combat .

He’s telling you how useless siege bunker is. 5% is nothing, it is not worth anything.

look you and aneu and the next guy that will come from guild Votf to quote me.

if until now after 7 months in the game we are not know how to avoid the damage or the usage of the skills , we must not blame arenanet because the did some changes to right direction about arrow carts.

i have a mesmser friend that had 100 blueprints of every siege except arrow carts …. now he has some , because now ac damage matters as an anti infantry siege .

the situation now .

i will put 5% @ siege bunker and someone put 5% to siege might . i will still survive because i am not pressing only the 1 key button and nothing else in the game. i will use mace,shield or focus to support the medium and light armor guys as a guardian and i will use wall of reflection or hold the line or any skill that will help my mates to survive of the ac damage until we successful place our sieges for the attack … then the try continues …. never stopping , else we will fail .

attacking siege structures like keeps and towers means the usage of siege to be important not useless ( where ac just scratch the armor of everyone like was before before patch ) , else ask from arenanet to remove the structures and make the www a wow arena ….

finally , this is what we want specially your guild Votf want ?

the wxp ranks give to the players that spend time in www the ability to be better than the other that just start playing and this is good. besides all , gw2 is a mmo and not bf3 or cod fps pvp game and character progression must matters..

before patch i could dominate a camp alone .now i can’t because i have not spend any wxp to the proper level of wxp rank. when i will spend and i still cant dominate them i will try to find a way to do it , not to blame because they did guards more powerfull….

this is how it goes in every mmo out there.

Sorry to quote someone from a couple days ago but I’m just now catching up on this thread and this post made me laugh. Are you seriously accusing other people of not knowing how to use their skills when you don’t even seem to realise that arrowcarts are not counted as projectiles therefore making your wall of reflection and shield 5 skills completely useless? This, imo, is another reason why the current arrowcarts are unbalanced.

3 days ago:

Reborn.2934:

look you and aneu and the next guy that will come from guild Votf to quote me.

if until now after 7 months in the game we are not know how to avoid the damage or the usage of the skills , we must not blame arenanet because the did some changes to right direction about arrow carts.

i have a mesmser friend that had 100 blueprints of every siege except arrow carts …. now he has some , because now ac damage matters as an anti infantry siege .

the situation now .

i will put 5% @ siege bunker and someone put 5% to siege might . i will still survive because i am not pressing only the 1 key button and nothing else in the game. i will use mace,shield or focus to support the medium and light armor guys as a guardian and i will use wall of reflection or hold the line or any skill that will help my mates to survive of the ac damage until we successful place our sieges for the attack … then the try continues …. never stopping , else we will fail .

attacking siege structures like keeps and towers means the usage of siege to be important not useless ( where ac just scratch the armor of everyone like was before before patch ) , else ask from arenanet to remove the structures and make the www a wow arena ….

finally , this is what we want specially your guild Votf want ?

More recently

Reborn.2934:

@Preacher.
the www is going to be more siege weapon warfare than a players warfare and this is boring and wrong.

they could increase the defend of upgraded structures and npc in www maps but what exists now ( arrow carts , traps ) is plain stupid and f@cking boring .

they can fix the fault patch by removing the ability from arrow carts to damage enemy sieges and only giving this extra big damage ( +80% ) to outnumbered buff and maybe to all sieges just to give a will for fight to defenders when they are facing big zergs and they are few against them.

p.s. also the range of arrow carts must be the lower of all other sieges because arrow cart is an aoe anti infantry weapon . it is still wrong because arrow carts must have the ability to hit just next to them and now they can’t

You want to set yourself on one opinion and stick to it or……?

Jackie.1829:

You want to set yourself on one opinion and stick to it or……?

Ikittenar.6409:

Sorry to quote someone from a couple days ago but I’m just now catching up on this thread and this post made me laugh. Are you seriously accusing other people of not knowing how to use their skills when you don’t even seem to realise that arrowcarts are not counted as projectiles therefore making your wall of reflection and shield 5 skills completely useless? This, imo, is another reason why the current arrowcarts are unbalanced.

the day that i wrote my first post about ac , we had put rams behind the door and arrow carts only damage people on rams and we out heal them . rams didn’t got any damage at all and we broke the gates. and after that i log off.

next days every ram or any siege we put destroyed by arrow carts and then realized that arrow carts can damage the rams and other sieges . i spoke with the commander who lead the assault and he said that probably the rams bugged the first day.

after that i changed my opinion about the patched arrow carts …..

is that clear now ?

better solutions to karma trains:

Limit number of seige rams that can attack a door. say 1 for a tower, and 2 for a keep door. (numbers just picked randomly for example), make it so that rams , and people on them, are immune to AC fire (after all they are supposed to offer protection) but vulnerable to oil.

Limit AC range, and make them not dmg seige. But keep the dmg vs players (not on seiges).

Define the seige roles:

AC – anti player, fairly close range area denial tool.
Balista – anti player, limited anti-seige, long range tool to offer precision shots
Catapult – default ranged seige weapon, used to bombard keeps out of AC range (so people have to sally forth to protect keeps not just sit on ACs.
Trebs – long range seige, used for assaulting fortified keeps/towers with balista and AC defense, if a team upgrades a tower/keep it deserves to require an effort to take down.
Rams, very high door dmg, but susceptable to oil. Protects player on them from AC fire (again requiring people to actively defend keeps not just sit on walls), but limited numbers can be placed.
Golems, not quite sure how to slot them in.

Not saying thats perfect, but you get the idea, Anet need to define seige roles, not just make ACs super powerful and limit any form of heirachy to seige use.

Defenses for upgraded keeps need to be increased I think more rewards for upgrading, more reason to defend them to keep the benefits. Taking a T3 keep should offer much much higher rewards than a T1, as should defending a T3 keep.

FractalChaos.6539:

The best part is that when you supply proof that ACs aren’t the magnetometric guided charges that everyone tells you they are, you’re told “That’s because the noobs shooting at you weren’t using them properly and didn’t place them properly”.

But all your videos showed exactly that, it was abundantly clear.

Plus the change in the meta since the change has been clearcut. As Caliban stated:

Caliban.3176:

The game has come to a stop, there is a stalemate. Things still flip indeed but only when there is either a huge zerg attacking, there are no defenders or there is a very long and boring siege. No way anyone could say that those results are something the game needed.

This has happened in T1 NA as well as in T1 EU.

I’ll say 2 last things:

1. Me and my guild did find out a way to definitively counter arrow carts in the current WvW environment. 100% successful. No, it does not involve using our own arrow carts.

2. No I do not believe the current iteration of arrow carts is balanced and neither does Anet. This is why they are reducing the range to roughly ballista range on the upgraded carts and lower their damage at least vs siege.

With the added range from Rank points and damage buff, a team sieging a tower can effectively lock down defending players from retaliating from the walls with a couple Arrow Carts.

Anet must have their history on medieval siege confused. Defenders on the walls had the advantage when it came to ranged weapons, not the other way around, as it is in WvW.

All I see on tower walls now are a dozen large red circles doing 1200 damage per second per circle.

morrolan.9608:

FractalChaos.6539:

The best part is that when you supply proof that ACs aren’t the magnetometric guided charges that everyone tells you they are, you’re told “That’s because the noobs shooting at you weren’t using them properly and didn’t place them properly”.

But all your videos showed exactly that, it was abundantly clear.

Plus the change in the meta since the change has been clearcut. As Caliban stated:

Caliban.3176:

The game has come to a stop, there is a stalemate. Things still flip indeed but only when there is either a huge zerg attacking, there are no defenders or there is a very long and boring siege. No way anyone could say that those results are something the game needed.

This has happened in T1 NA as well as in T1 EU.

Then take up the challenge no one else has; explain how the arrow carts would have hurt me more if they had been “placed properly” and “used properly”.

Since I am now 100% convinced that this is a case of masses of people simply not wanting to change their build/tactics/whatnot, I’ll explain. In response to the arrow cart buff….

1- I changed two of my Engineer’s traits.
2- I replaced every single upgrade component in my back slot/rings/trinkets/amulet (all 6) with Crests of the Soldier.
3- I changed the kind of food I use.

That’s it. Thanks to some minute changes, I can shrug off any number of arrow carts- even if they are grouped and assisting -long enough to heal through the damage. The absolute highest amount of damage I have ever taken from an AC post-patch is 1370 or thereabout. Oh and I can still prybar people in the face so hard they’d rather run from me than fight me.

I saw a change coming and instead of trying to keep playing the same way and then scr-r-r-reeeeeeeeeeching about it on the forums when it didn’t work, I played around with my build and skills, and gave myself multiple options; heal, evade, block, dodge, invincible.

Problem (quite easily) solved.

FractalChaos.6539:

That’s it. Thanks to some minute changes, I can shrug off any number of arrow carts- even if they are grouped and assisting -long enough to heal through the damage. The absolute highest amount of damage I have ever taken from an AC post-patch is 1370 or thereabout.

So now we’re required to re-spec to counter ACs? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

morrolan.9608:

FractalChaos.6539:

That’s it. Thanks to some minute changes, I can shrug off any number of arrow carts- even if they are grouped and assisting -long enough to heal through the damage. The absolute highest amount of damage I have ever taken from an AC post-patch is 1370 or thereabout.

So now we’re required to re-spec to counter ACs? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Do you expect a single build to be good in every single situation, and to never ever have to change it? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

meh, I had always thought wvw was about being coordinated as a group, using synergy, misdirection, and siege correctly… ACs were already great for attacking up hard to reach places to hit trebs and such

now you spam the buttons on the doors and you can’t be reached… the range is a bit… broken, however, I don’t see what everyone’s arguing about devon has already stated it’s broken and a fix is inc… but like most things they’re taking their sweet time. I just hope they fix them before gw3

FractalChaos.6539:

morrolan.9608:

FractalChaos.6539:

That’s it. Thanks to some minute changes, I can shrug off any number of arrow carts- even if they are grouped and assisting -long enough to heal through the damage. The absolute highest amount of damage I have ever taken from an AC post-patch is 1370 or thereabout.

So now we’re required to re-spec to counter ACs? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Do you expect a single build to be good in every single situation, and to never ever have to change it? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Is someone paying you? This is a place to express some opinions, not debate the cause. You have made your feelings so abundantly clear as to not warrant any further input on the subject. You aren’t A-Nets attorney so just relax and enjoy the game.

FractalChaos.6539:

morrolan.9608:

FractalChaos.6539:

That’s it. Thanks to some minute changes, I can shrug off any number of arrow carts- even if they are grouped and assisting -long enough to heal through the damage. The absolute highest amount of damage I have ever taken from an AC post-patch is 1370 or thereabout.

So now we’re required to re-spec to counter ACs? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Do you expect a single build to be good in every single situation, and to never ever have to change it? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Do you expect every player to drop every type of rune/equip in favor of bunker gear just to deal with 1 type of siege? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Mortemp.6319:

FractalChaos.6539:

morrolan.9608:

FractalChaos.6539:

That’s it. Thanks to some minute changes, I can shrug off any number of arrow carts- even if they are grouped and assisting -long enough to heal through the damage. The absolute highest amount of damage I have ever taken from an AC post-patch is 1370 or thereabout.

So now we’re required to re-spec to counter ACs? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Do you expect a single build to be good in every single situation, and to never ever have to change it? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Do you expect every player to drop every type of rune/equip in favor of bunker gear just to deal with 1 type of siege? If you can’t see the issue with that well I don’t know what to say.

Yes if they plan on getting on rams or being in a golme or well playing badly and standing in the aoe longer then 2 sec.
Or if you plane on attking a door with no weapons at all but your own. I still cant get over seeing ppl doing this.

Well..I’m officially taking a break ( got enough other games to play ) untill Anet figures out they made a mistake,and if they don’t…tough luck.I never..never whine about any update,and accept what anet does.,be it a class nerf or whatever it may be.But this wvwvw update is just Ruining the Only aspect i like doing in this game.Many other people from my server think the same way,Wvwvw is getting pretty boring and empty where i am Anet,the vets hardly log in..its a few pugs and new comms tagging because no one else will.If you honestly do not fix this you will lose a huge chunk of people currently playing wvwvw.
Or are these your intentions.. ?

Anet, a quick ninja-patch before reset would be great.
Or yet another week would be ruined!

Mizu.9387:

I see our numbers drop every day. People are moving away and we have zero queues on any map at any given time.
All that is left to do now is solo roam, since our guild group can’t really accomplish anything. We don’t want our members to spend 3 hours of their time watching others play with siege.
I must admit that I don’t know a whole lot about war history, but I don’t care, this is boring. If realistic means whatver this is, I rather do without. I assume this is the approach Anet wants to take though, since no “fix” has come yet.
GG Anet, it was fun while it lasted.

Agreed.

It’s incredible how one patch has utterly destroyed what was once an incredibly addictive game. Before patch our server was flooded with players and commanders. You could always log on an find a fight. After patch it’s like a ghost town. I logged on and found myself flipping ogres solo just cuz there was nothing else to do. Haven’t seen a commander in ages. Gradually players trickled in and we got enough to go attack Ogrewatch. Same as before, the other force sauntered in and put a few foes on their AC’s. We retreated to the hill and set up trebs. Then waited and guarded those trebs. Epic stuff sitting around watching a treb work. Enough time elapsed without any major progress that the red team decided to wipe our treb. We defended it for a bit. Then folks just quit. Not worth it to players at this point. The real thing WvW needed to get player base up is a major reward for the winning team. Imagine if there was a set of incredible, unique armor with glow effects that you could only get from WINNING weekly match ups. I’ll take a new currency, sure. People would play then. Instead we get overpowered arrow carts that destroy the karma XP train which was another reason players were drawn to WvW. Thank god I leveled my character in WvW pre-patch. Impossible now. I still hold out hope that Anet will mend the error of their ways and give us back WvW.

Entropy.4732:

It’s incredible how one patch has utterly destroyed what was once an incredibly addictive game. Before patch our server was flooded with players and commanders. You could always log on an find a fight. After patch it’s like a ghost town. I logged on and found myself flipping ogres solo just cuz there was nothing else to do. Haven’t seen a commander in ages. Gradually players trickled in and we got enough to go attack Ogrewatch. Same as before, the other force sauntered in and put a few foes on their AC’s. We retreated to the hill and set up trebs. Then waited and guarded those trebs. Epic stuff sitting around watching a treb work. Enough time elapsed without any major progress that the red team decided to wipe our treb. We defended it for a bit. Then folks just quit. Not worth it to players at this point. The real thing WvW needed to get player base up is a major reward for the winning team. Imagine if there was a set of incredible, unique armor with glow effects that you could only get from WINNING weekly match ups. I’ll take a new currency, sure. People would play then. Instead we get overpowered arrow carts that destroy the karma XP train which was another reason players were drawn to WvW. Thank god I leveled my character in WvW pre-patch. Impossible now. I still hold out hope that Anet will mend the error of their ways and give us back WvW.

If they will not listen to us now,or revert back with So many complaints..it means they will never listen to us when something they implement is a thing the community doesn’t like,and it will show they go their own way no matter what,and that we just have to suck it up and deal with it.So..basically this is the big turning point.Does anet care enough to listen to it’s community,or does it go it’s own way and losing a chunk of players while doing so ?

Caedmon.6798:

Entropy.4732:

It’s incredible how one patch has utterly destroyed what was once an incredibly addictive game. Before patch our server was flooded with players and commanders. You could always log on an find a fight. After patch it’s like a ghost town. I logged on and found myself flipping ogres solo just cuz there was nothing else to do. Haven’t seen a commander in ages. Gradually players trickled in and we got enough to go attack Ogrewatch. Same as before, the other force sauntered in and put a few foes on their AC’s. We retreated to the hill and set up trebs. Then waited and guarded those trebs. Epic stuff sitting around watching a treb work. Enough time elapsed without any major progress that the red team decided to wipe our treb. We defended it for a bit. Then folks just quit. Not worth it to players at this point. The real thing WvW needed to get player base up is a major reward for the winning team. Imagine if there was a set of incredible, unique armor with glow effects that you could only get from WINNING weekly match ups. I’ll take a new currency, sure. People would play then. Instead we get overpowered arrow carts that destroy the karma XP train which was another reason players were drawn to WvW. Thank god I leveled my character in WvW pre-patch. Impossible now. I still hold out hope that Anet will mend the error of their ways and give us back WvW.

If they will not listen to us now,or revert back with So many complaints..it means they will never listen to us when something they implement is a thing the community doesn’t like,and it will show they go their own way no matter what,and that we just have to suck it up and deal with it.So..basically this is the big turning point.Does anet care enough to listen to it’s community,or does it go it’s own way and losing a chunk of players while doing so ?

As far as I’m concerned Anet never goes back on their decisions. They’ve had this kind of rep since GW1.

I can accept that mistakes happen, that changing things in a situation like wvwvw will have uninteded consequences.

For me, its how anet responds to mistakes that matter, if there is not a patch this week to revet ac changes, and prerably remove the added wxp abilitites that caused such a mess, i will beginto lose faith.

I am having less fun in wvwvw, which is almost all i do in game, at some point i will have to decide if i would be bett spending my game time elsewhere. Not there yet, but anet need to react much quicker to situations like this

Cameirus.8407:

…

I am having less fun in wvwvw, which is almost all i do in game, at some point i will have to decide if i would be bett spending my game time elsewhere. Not there yet, but anet need to react much quicker to situations like this

This. My entire 50man WvW group are now slacking due to that bs AC update.

The WvW has just became slow,stale,dull and static. Every bambi drops an AC in every opportinuty even in zerg fights.

There werent any feedback about ACs or something about this. How come Anet decided to make this buff?

And now, they are bringing TRAPS. Traps really?

Ruprect.7260:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Yesterday we were defending Durios, so I tried setting up an arrow cart and it got destroyed almost immediately, even though I had set it up to be hidden behind the bridge. It turns out that it was killed by an arrow cart that was closer to Stonemist than it was to Durios. Is this really intended?

I marked where I tried building my arrow cart with a red dot in the attached map, and where the enemy arrow cart was with a blue dot. (The screenshot is not from that battle, I’m just using it to show positions.)

Working as intended. I want to say that traited the AC’s have a 3500 range lol.

I was writing a long text but decided to delete becouse theres alot of bad gamming concepts here (IMO).
When turned into wvw is one of the worse concept ever, its the same with AB but with walls and tools to get them down, is this a new gametime? NO. WvW
would be better if maps were larger, no Building to building siege due map distance, and this AC range proves that map are small for this kind of fights, next we will see AC spam from keep to tower fights, with larger maps groups would had to build trebs on the field with longer range a/c to protect, and players on walls would do the same.

welcome do AB 2.0

Heijincks.9267:

Caedmon.6798:

Entropy.4732:

It’s incredible how one patch has utterly destroyed what was once an incredibly addictive game. Before patch our server was flooded with players and commanders. You could always log on an find a fight. After patch it’s like a ghost town. I logged on and found myself flipping ogres solo just cuz there was nothing else to do. Haven’t seen a commander in ages. Gradually players trickled in and we got enough to go attack Ogrewatch. Same as before, the other force sauntered in and put a few foes on their AC’s. We retreated to the hill and set up trebs. Then waited and guarded those trebs. Epic stuff sitting around watching a treb work. Enough time elapsed without any major progress that the red team decided to wipe our treb. We defended it for a bit. Then folks just quit. Not worth it to players at this point. The real thing WvW needed to get player base up is a major reward for the winning team. Imagine if there was a set of incredible, unique armor with glow effects that you could only get from WINNING weekly match ups. I’ll take a new currency, sure. People would play then. Instead we get overpowered arrow carts that destroy the karma XP train which was another reason players were drawn to WvW. Thank god I leveled my character in WvW pre-patch. Impossible now. I still hold out hope that Anet will mend the error of their ways and give us back WvW.

If they will not listen to us now,or revert back with So many complaints..it means they will never listen to us when something they implement is a thing the community doesn’t like,and it will show they go their own way no matter what,and that we just have to suck it up and deal with it.So..basically this is the big turning point.Does anet care enough to listen to it’s community,or does it go it’s own way and losing a chunk of players while doing so ?

As far as I’m concerned Anet never goes back on their decisions. They’ve had this kind of rep since GW1.

if at least ,they not reverse the damage on sieges because it is game breaker change and it is out of every logic, i see the failure’s ghost is coming with supersonic speed.

it is not so difficult from players to spread the rumors of failure on the Internet … then , nobody new from europe and usa will touch the game … after that , good luck with asia customers

is the failure an option for them ? i don’t think that even the bill2play manual has something about failure option !

I still think that a lot of the complaining will be done when catapult mastery will be released with improved range. There will be debate and complain over Cata vs Treb…

There is 2 issues with the AC IMO. Increased damage at the same time as the mastery released was a bad idea but the damage boost was actually needed. The increase range on AC should have been at least tier 3 in the mastery. It’s way too easy to get and at 10 point it’s a no brainer…

Are people seriously leaving the game over this? WvW has continued to be lots of fun since the buff, and whatever tweaks they make back to ACs aren’t radically going to change the gametype. It kinda feels like anyone leaving over this would have left anyway.

lol @ everyone kitten over siege weapons. I personally love them the way they are!

Hyung.6140:

Are people seriously leaving the game over this? WvW has continued to be lots of fun since the buff, and whatever tweaks they make back to ACs aren’t radically going to change the gametype. It kinda feels like anyone leaving over this would have left anyway.

in one night i listened 3 times from people and commanders when we assault or defend a keep ….

“f…ck this arrow cart war, it is boring”

because when people are boring playing something , they left it behind. it is the natural reaction . nothing about revenge or they had decide to leave in a past moment and this mistake made them to leave.

it is the same with t1 rank where 3 servers playing each other for months…. this is boring too. if anet have league nobody will face the same enemies every week . many pvp guilds are moving from one server to an other because they don’t want fight every week the same enemies

Maybe put a 5/10 second delay on auto attack. I was in EB last night and we had 10+ ACs going at SM, a zerg of about 60-80 rushed in and we held them back with only 10 players defending outside keep and 10 manning ACs. Makes it fun when you are defending

No way I am reading 47 bloody pages. Did Anet say if they are going to fix yet?

WvW turned in to a Treb War. Ram and catapults snipeds by AC. AC>all.

I see a group building a AC to snipe some Treb at SM -.-

The change, I think, was meant to help bust up the other massive problem that everyone was complaining about…everyone running in massive zergs (a problem exasperated by the new leveling system I may add since it is the easiest way to get WXP).

LOL I guess they did not see what is happening now in there internal testing.

This is the problem with not having a test server and not having hundreds of players test things out before implementing them. What you think is good in practice ends up causing other problems. 2 hours in T1 with these new carts would have shown the problems.

Internal testing does not show the real problems.
Example….
Try coming into a map that has been dominated by off hours coverage your server does not have and all keeps and towers (owned by another server) are fully upgraded and now add 6+ superior arrow carts that can kitten 40+ people in seconds. It makes people want to quit.

Whether they change it or not is not the issue (well maybe it is) but if they do not start to include there player base in helping to test out changes problems like this will only end up happening more and more often.

This problem extends past WvW.