Guild Wars 2

I can’t believe they have done this. AC were very strong before the patch and now they are absolutely over the top ridiculous.

Look Anet rarely listen to the people with the rational arguments, they listen to the moaning, mindless blob.

Anet give us a counter to the mindless blob, mindless blob QQ all over the forum and what will happen? Don’t be surprised when they put AC back as it was, if enough whining kids kick off about something they will nerf it.

All I can say is this Anet if you are reading this, stand your ground and wait to see how this change pans out before you revert it back. I for one am looking forward to seeing if this means we need better tactics and if large pug zergs are the ones to suffer for a change.

to all the people telling about adaption, etc. What is the answer to all these well placed ac? You have to treb everything.

now on the other hand, imagine you have a job, which allows you to play an average 4 hours a day to play, mostly during the same timeframe every day, mostly primetime on your server, when you and your opponents field the most players. when the scouts are most alert, when there is a scout in every tower and every camp armed with ac’s.

it’s a game, games should be fun, and this coming siege war doesn’t sound like fun to me, as a casual but dedicated player

Gab Superstar.4059:

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.

So we should take towers with no defenders in it? I like to fight people, that is what this game was supposed to let me do. Instead you are encouraging me to go to places because the are worth points (worthless points, might I add) and I can only take those places when there is no one there to fight. Sure bro. Sound like PvE. If there are people there, we should leave.

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.

So we should take towers with no defenders in it? I like to fight people, that is what this game was supposed to let me do. Instead you are encouraging me to go to places because the are worth points (worthless points, might I add) and I can only take those places when there is no one there to fight. Sure bro. Sound like PvE. If there are people there, we should leave.

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

So what you are telling me right now is that those 50 defenders would gladly lose their entire map in favor of holding that one snazzy tower?

Please, stop posting.

Caliban.3176:

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

That is too much of a challenge.

TallDan.6350:

I for one am looking forward to seeing if this means we need better tactics and if large pug zergs are the ones to suffer for a change.

“I, for one, welcome our new Arrow Cart overlords”.

Jokes aside, how do you think a SMALL/MEDIUM group will behave now? Sure it hurts the large zergs, but who it hurts even more are the small and medium pug groups, those pug groups now have a bigger chance for success if they join the large zerg instead.

In history successful sieges were those that involved:
1. Treachery / surprise attack (quick)
2. Cutting supplies from the fortress for an extended period of time (slow)

To me it looks like ANet is trying to bring exactly that, we get a 30s delay on attacks (to facilitate quick golem rushes for example) AND a great defensive tool (which slows zergs and enforce more methodical take-over).

As for the change being good or bad – I’m happy with it. But then I am on a lowest tier server and as someone wrote in a different thread – who gives a crap about T7-T9? :P

Its time to make new strategy ^^

qweman.5298:

Its time to find a different game ^^

Fixed for ya.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.

So we should take towers with no defenders in it? I like to fight people, that is what this game was supposed to let me do. Instead you are encouraging me to go to places because the are worth points (worthless points, might I add) and I can only take those places when there is no one there to fight. Sure bro. Sound like PvE. If there are people there, we should leave.

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

So what you are telling me right now is that those 50 defenders would gladly lose their entire map in favor of holding that one snazzy tower?

Please, stop posting.

They don’t need 50 defenders. The player cap per map is about 150 players and you only need 5 per tower and maybe 7 per keep to make it entirely impregnable against even 50+ if they know what they are doing not even 100+ can touch them.

They would lose nothing by having 50 peopl in 1 tower, they would lose nothing by having 50 people in a tower. There are no more reasons to get out of your own structures while other people are playing.

Nightcapping has just become the only tactic. (sometimes running with 140 players might work as well but it is unlikely)

Teel.9036:

TallDan.6350:

I for one am looking forward to seeing if this means we need better tactics and if large pug zergs are the ones to suffer for a change.

“I, for one, welcome our new Arrow Cart overlords”.

Jokes aside, how do you think a SMALL/MEDIUM group will behave now? Sure it hurts the large zergs, but who it hurts even more are the small and medium pug groups, those pug groups now have a bigger chance for success if they join the large zerg instead.

Those groups have ALWAYS had a bigger chance for success if they join the zerg.

IMO it only hurts those that cannot rethink the way they cap a keep. A small/medium group should be far more capable of this than a zerg. Its not that hard to find the maximum range of someone shooting an arrowcart at you and then place a catapult just beyond it. Turn the tables a bit – cover the catapults with some of your own arrowcarts to discourage a counter attack.

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.

So we should take towers with no defenders in it? I like to fight people, that is what this game was supposed to let me do. Instead you are encouraging me to go to places because the are worth points (worthless points, might I add) and I can only take those places when there is no one there to fight. Sure bro. Sound like PvE. If there are people there, we should leave.

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

So what you are telling me right now is that those 50 defenders would gladly lose their entire map in favor of holding that one snazzy tower?

Please, stop posting.

5 per tower and maybe 7 per keep to make it entirely impregnable against even 50+ if they know what they are doing not even 100+ can touch them.

And this is why I told you to stop posting. If you have some real arguments, then please let me hear them. But spouting nonsense like this is not going to help your case.

I think people will slowly come to understand that this change is GREAT for weaker servers, and evens matches up a bit.

Teel.9036:

TallDan.6350:

I for one am looking forward to seeing if this means we need better tactics and if large pug zergs are the ones to suffer for a change.

“I, for one, welcome our new Arrow Cart overlords”.

Jokes aside, how do you think a SMALL/MEDIUM group will behave now? Sure it hurts the large zergs, but who it hurts even more are the small and medium pug groups, those pug groups now have a bigger chance for success if they join the large zerg instead.

Did you hear about the Asura Fortune Teller that escaped from jail?
Yes, it’s true, we have a SMALL MEDIUM at LARGE!!!!!

Sorry, your Small/Medium in caps triggered that!
/snicker

I am simply going to add my own frustration onto this.

I run Guild raids of 10-15 people, this has got to be one of the most ridiculous updates they have ever instigated.

What on earth is its purpose? To make it near impossible to take any defended keep with a small force. Hell even 4-5 ACs destroys your fighting capability, let alone the 12 they can have, knocking all kinds of 9 hells out of you.

Far from destroying the power of Zergs this is forcing people to zerg up to have any hope in hell of achieving anything.

It has to be the most imbalanced lunatic decision they have made. A game founded upon the supposed ethos of “Guild Wars” and well balanced pvp decides to throw it all away.

For me this just continues to prove that Arenanet (despite being owned by NCsoft) has no idea how to create a persistent open World PvP environment.

Another update forcing people into forts and off the field of battle.

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

Shadowresli.3782:

to all the people telling about adaption, etc. What is the answer to all these well placed ac? You have to treb everything.

now on the other hand, imagine you have a job, which allows you to play an average 4 hours a day to play, mostly during the same timeframe every day, mostly primetime on your server, when you and your opponents field the most players. when the scouts are most alert, when there is a scout in every tower and every camp armed with ac’s.

it’s a game, games should be fun, and this coming siege war doesn’t sound like fun to me, as a casual but dedicated player

setting up 2 trebs, and taking out the defensive siege takes no more than 20 minutes. at most. from there, there’s no defensive siege for the defenders to use. since you’ve starved them out of supplies, they can’t build more. sure, they can port to another map and pick up more, buuuuuuuut that doesn’t really give them an easy way back. and it leaves them shorthanded during those loading screens. plenty of time to drop 3 superior rams and shred the gate. if they stand their ground, then it’s a straight up large scale PvP fight.

if it takes you more than a half hour to attack a tower, even a tier 3 tower, there are better ways to go about it than whatever you’re trying. and if that place is wooden, it shouldn’t take you more than 10 minutes, tops. doing the math, and assuming it takes you the full half hour to take each structure, at 4 hours of play time, that means you can take 8 towers during your play time. double the time frame for keeps, so you can take 4 keeps during your playtime, which is 1 more than are on any map. so you can break that extra one down into 2 towers. which means that your group can take almost an entire borderland during your timeframe. if you have multiple groups running around to hit the camps and the other two towers, that’s the whole borderland there. if you’ve spent that entire time attacking the same target, then a change in strategy is in order.

Silver.9084:

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

People obviously don’t feel this way.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.

So we should take towers with no defenders in it? I like to fight people, that is what this game was supposed to let me do. Instead you are encouraging me to go to places because the are worth points (worthless points, might I add) and I can only take those places when there is no one there to fight. Sure bro. Sound like PvE. If there are people there, we should leave.

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

So what you are telling me right now is that those 50 defenders would gladly lose their entire map in favor of holding that one snazzy tower?

Please, stop posting.

5 per tower and maybe 7 per keep to make it entirely impregnable against even 50+ if they know what they are doing not even 100+ can touch them.

And this is why I told you to stop posting. If you have some real arguments, then please let me hear them. But spouting nonsense like this is not going to help your case.

You don’t have to tell me what to do, I’ll stop posting when I feel like it. It’s the only thing I can do now since the patch has made everything I worked for in the game useless. I do have real arguments, you just choose to ignore that, that is your choice.

I do not understand what you are doing in this thread, guilds that actually tried to make this game competitive are now asking for a fix. You are just here to ruin stuff.

Arrow carts are wayyy over the top… Arrow carts were never bad…. They were never bad or underpowered to begin with…. So this decision to give them such a ridiculous overbuff seems utterly baffling to me…

Any attack that’s even somewhat even now is utterly demolishes by just having 2 arrow carts on the defense. It’s ridiculous.

I do not want to come off as belittling to anyone but as an avid WvWer I am very happy with these changes. The point of WvW is siege warfare against entrenched enemies, and open field battles to drive your enemies back and keep them holed up as you maintain control of the area around them. This allows you to “starve” them out by limiting supplies to their camps and that will eventually make them weak.

In what real battle has there ever been an assaulting army that was not held off by a few defenders?
The arrow carts should destroy people that stand in their range, you should have to send in groups that can sustain some damage to harass the defenders on the wall to take focus away from your field artillery. Send out havoc squads to cut off the enemy supply lines and have keep/tower defenders that maintain a post at your holdings to make sure you can hold them.

There have been so many posts about breaking up the zergs, to make it more viable to have smaller roaming groups and defenders mean something in the tactics of WvW in gaining that win for your server, this is it. Anet looks to be setting up WvW to mimic real war strategy in war. Not what has been the norm until now which is grab a group of 20+ roll up to a keep fully upgraded or not with everyone, flash build 3 rams while under heavy fire from defenders with little concern to you or your siege being built. Now it is MORE important to have coordinated group strikes across the map, have groups that work to keep defenders focus away from assaulting siege and supply starve your enemy. It is going to take more tactics than just anticipating where and when the enemy zerg is moving too and going to strike enmass.

Silver.9084:

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

FINALLY someone who understands!!

it became a discussion about apples and oranges somewhere.

Yes, it’s anti zerg and it’s more interessting from a tactitians point of view.

BUT: a lot of people have limited gametime (me 3h/day). in this time we want some epic battles (even siege warfare), but we also want to split some skulls and take some structures, ergo FUN

this patch doesn’t support the fun-part

Gab Superstar.4059:

Silver.9084:

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

People obviously don’t feel this way.

That’s why this thread has almost 700 replies in half a day

Silver.9084:

people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

Then why are arrow carts defending a keep a problem to you? Go zerg v zerg in the open field.

Silver.9084:

That’s why this thread has almost 700 replies in half a day

Half of them from your guild…

ProxyDamage.9826:

Arrow carts are wayyy over the top… Arrow carts were never bad…. They were never bad or underpowered to begin with..

I am sorry but this is false. I could stand at a gate with constant arrow cart spam from 3 to 5 AC’s and just pop VoC for protection, shelter, dodge roll heal if I was bored and wanted extra damage from low endurance, use my hammer chain to grant protection, or VoR and never die to the AC barrage. All the while my heals were keeping 10 to 15 other people up and going in the same area of AC fire, yes they were under powered.

Mif.3471:

Silver.9084:

That’s why this thread has almost 700 replies in half a day

Half of them from your guild…

man, i’m glad you said it, cause i was just about to.

Mif.3471:

Silver.9084:

people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

Then why are arrow carts defending a keep a problem to you? Go zerg v zerg in the open field.

That’s the thing there’s no one in the open field, everyone is hiding in towers using arrowcarts.

Ok, it’s mega-thread time again…

Since everybody is showcasing their two cents, here are mine:

I find the arrow cart buff an interesting change of pace. Arrow carts are now quite obviously shaking up the established (stalling?) tactics to take towers in less that 2 minutes, and they are a very welcome (if not necessary) buff to the defending side.

Taking towers/keeps has become way to easy in the current “WvW meta”. You shouldn’t be able to ninja such structures just because the zerg banging at the door is large enough (maybe bringing a golem or two, or sixteen). Defenders on the walls have been almost completely powerless against the attacking side, and attacking from the walls (with or without an arrow cart) has been more dangerous for the guy on the wall than for the lad on the ground. I don’t find this correct. A small skeleton crew should be able to stall a full force attack for some time if they are prepared, and the new arrow carts are helping. (Please look up your European history books. Keeps have actually been defended for extensive periods of time by very small defending forces. They usually only succumbed when they were successfully cut off from their supply lines. I wish this would be the same for WvW.)

As always, people need to relax, stop crying/blaming/namecalling, and take their time to come up with new tactics to counter a well fortified keep. And I am quite positive within a week we will have found these tactics. Just allow yourself to try something different.

So please, ANet, don’t falter just because some players tend to flee in panic whenever they see their own shadow, or just because a thread grows to 13+ pages of complaints faster than players could have actually played and tested new tactics to cope with the current rules of the game.

(edit) Having said that, there is still room for improvement. Anet should be vigilant that arrow carts do not become the one and only siege device of choice. E.g., ballistae may currently seem a little bit to weak in comparison. Also, the boiling oil above the doors is still nigh useless (except maybe for buying a small amount of extra time before it is destroyed, or versus very dumb attackers). A defender manning the oil usually survives only up to 10 seconds when the combined zerg is in AoEing. I hope ANet will address these problems in future patches, too.(/edit)

As stated above, these are just my 2 cents.

~MRA

Silver.9084:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Silver.9084:

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

People obviously don’t feel this way.

That’s why this thread has almost 700 replies in half a day

700 replies totally agreeing with the complains made in this thread. Hell, if I knew my posts would count as some kind of support for these complaints, I don’t think I would be posting here right now. Face it, the people who frequent forums are a drop in the ocean, and mean next to nothing in terms of what people would actually like to see in the game.

Caliban.3176:

You don’t have to tell me what to do, I’ll stop posting when I feel like it. It’s the only thing I can do now since the patch has made everything I worked for in the game useless. I do have real arguments, you just choose to ignore that, that is your choice.

I do not understand what you are doing in this thread, guilds that actually tried to make this game competitive are now asking for a fix. You are just here to ruin stuff.

If you consider 5v100 a valid argument, I don’t know what. Personally I would consider that mad ramblings. If you feel you need to quit this game, then by all means go ahead and do it. I see absolutely nothing from anyone who replied to me that is worth even a second of consideration from my part.

Oh, and this game is competitive. Maybe blobbing 30 people up and spamming your autoattack while abusing every game mechanic conceivable has something to do with your lack of fun. That is what you guys do in the upper tiers right?

Please do not change this

Everyone has been asking for some way to defend and encourage defense… this is now what we have and suddenly it’s “too” powerful to defend?

I think improving siege damage is a positive thing, but they didn’t do it in an intelligent manner.

Siege built within a structure should be given a damage bonus of say 15% against enemy players and siege but -50% damage to enemy structures. Siege built on a wall of a structure you control would gain an additional 15% (30% damage increase) and arrowcarts would gain an additional 50% (65% total) when built on a wall.

This way you have defenders benefiting from actually defending.
Siege that can do real damage to the opposing forces can actually be countered because it’s on the wall.
Stacked carts in the lord’s room won’t win a fight alone.

You could then improve this method by giving defenders on a wall +25% added range to projectiles. You could have mini-outmanned buffs where defenders would gain protection if outnumbered 5:1 or something along those lines.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Silver.9084:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Silver.9084:

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

People obviously don’t feel this way.

That’s why this thread has almost 700 replies in half a day

700 replies totally agreeing with the complains made in this thread. Hell, if I knew my posts would count as some kind of support for these complaints, I don’t think I would be posting here right now. Face it, the people who frequent forums are a drop in the ocean, and mean next to nothing in terms of what people would actually like to see in the game.

Caliban.3176:

You don’t have to tell me what to do, I’ll stop posting when I feel like it. It’s the only thing I can do now since the patch has made everything I worked for in the game useless. I do have real arguments, you just choose to ignore that, that is your choice.

I do not understand what you are doing in this thread, guilds that actually tried to make this game competitive are now asking for a fix. You are just here to ruin stuff.

If you consider 5v100 a valid argument, I don’t know what. Personally I would consider that mad ramblings. If you feel you need to quit this game, then by all means go ahead and do it. I see absolutely nothing from anyone who replied to me that is worth even a second of consideration from my part.

Oh, and this game is competitive. Maybe blobbing 30 people up and spamming your autoattack while abusing every game mechanic conceivable has something to do with your lack of fun. That is what you guys do in the upper tiers right?

Before this patch 10vs80 was not hard to do for hills or garrison. Not in the least. You didn’t even have to be on voicecomms for it. Of course this is going to make 5vs 100 doable.

P.S. we are in T7

Caliban.3176:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Silver.9084:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Silver.9084:

What people don’t understand is that it is BORING trebbing/dealing with counter trebs for 5 hours to TRY and find a fight inside a keep or something.. people want to fight CHARACTERS not siege all the time..

People obviously don’t feel this way.

That’s why this thread has almost 700 replies in half a day

700 replies totally agreeing with the complains made in this thread. Hell, if I knew my posts would count as some kind of support for these complaints, I don’t think I would be posting here right now. Face it, the people who frequent forums are a drop in the ocean, and mean next to nothing in terms of what people would actually like to see in the game.

Caliban.3176:

You don’t have to tell me what to do, I’ll stop posting when I feel like it. It’s the only thing I can do now since the patch has made everything I worked for in the game useless. I do have real arguments, you just choose to ignore that, that is your choice.

I do not understand what you are doing in this thread, guilds that actually tried to make this game competitive are now asking for a fix. You are just here to ruin stuff.

If you consider 5v100 a valid argument, I don’t know what. Personally I would consider that mad ramblings. If you feel you need to quit this game, then by all means go ahead and do it. I see absolutely nothing from anyone who replied to me that is worth even a second of consideration from my part.

Oh, and this game is competitive. Maybe blobbing 30 people up and spamming your autoattack while abusing every game mechanic conceivable has something to do with your lack of fun. That is what you guys do in the upper tiers right?

Before this patch 10vs80 was not hard to do for hills or garrison. Not in the least. You didn’t even have to be on voicecomms for it. Of course this is going to make 5vs 100 doable.

P.S. we are in T7

Those 80 would have to be extremely bad, and would have to never adapt at all.

P.S. that was not always the case

The real problem is in-combat resurrections. Your arrowcarts didn’t do anything to thin out a zerg because they could rez faster than you could kill them.

Reduce the speed of in-combat rezzing (which would also fix a superior ballista not being about to finish someone off if he has 5 friends), THEN go for massive arrow cart damage increases…

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Phantom.8130:

Shadowresli.3782:

to all the people telling about adaption, etc. What is the answer to all these well placed ac? You have to treb everything.

now on the other hand, imagine you have a job, which allows you to play an average 4 hours a day to play, mostly during the same timeframe every day, mostly primetime on your server, when you and your opponents field the most players. when the scouts are most alert, when there is a scout in every tower and every camp armed with ac’s.

it’s a game, games should be fun, and this coming siege war doesn’t sound like fun to me, as a casual but dedicated player

setting up 2 trebs, and taking out the defensive siege takes no more than 20 minutes. at most. from there, there’s no defensive siege for the defenders to use. since you’ve starved them out of supplies, they can’t build more. sure, they can port to another map and pick up more, buuuuuuuut that doesn’t really give them an easy way back. and it leaves them shorthanded during those loading screens. plenty of time to drop 3 superior rams and shred the gate. if they stand their ground, then it’s a straight up large scale PvP fight.

if it takes you more than a half hour to attack a tower, even a tier 3 tower, there are better ways to go about it than whatever you’re trying. and if that place is wooden, it shouldn’t take you more than 10 minutes, tops. doing the math, and assuming it takes you the full half hour to take each structure, at 4 hours of play time, that means you can take 8 towers during your play time. double the time frame for keeps, so you can take 4 keeps during your playtime, which is 1 more than are on any map. so you can break that extra one down into 2 towers. which means that your group can take almost an entire borderland during your timeframe. if you have multiple groups running around to hit the camps and the other two towers, that’s the whole borderland there. if you’ve spent that entire time attacking the same target, then a change in strategy is in order.

thanks for your answer

now let me explain where my fears come from. i play in t6 eu, the same opponents for 5 weeks now. mostly i stand guard on our homelands, during our peak time between 18.00 and 22.00. during this time our players consist of some small Guildgroups, lonely skirmishers, the people who know the place and how to defend it and are listening to TS commands. and a lot of random players doing their thing and halfwillingly following a commander symbol. in short it’s the only time we are able to generate a queue on our homelands. our opponents field mostly guild groups of 20+ or raids of allianced guilds (zergs up to 50). on a good day we were able to defend our homelands, on a slower day only the upper halve. then one of our opponents has a strong nightcapping precence and takes over all our structures. not all of them are fully t3 the next day, or worse, still belong to the enemy and are fortified.
Does your timetable still works? when not, then you see my fears?
PS: sorry for the language, not a nativ english speaker

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

Aneu.1748:

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

No Aneu you dont understand, it splits the zerg up because now the zerg will divide into several smaller groups and man all the arrow carts as they wait for the enemy to come to them… the same enemy who will do the same thing in their structures.

Maybe next patch with 300 wexp, I can arrow cart the arrow carts in their keep from my keep.. you never know.

btw how are you supposed to take said tower when arrow carts will just nuke you going through the choke? Whats to stop the enemy zerg just destroying you, while you were spread out dodging arrow cart damage? Do you people assume your opponent is just sitting on the arrow carts behind the walls foaming at the mouth? You were already at a disadvantage when 30 people can run in and our of a portal healing back to full and rebuffing while your trying res people, then splashing back out trashing everyone spread out again. With these arrow cart upgrades, they will be able to do that while your stuck at < 50 percent hp. Jeeze people are clueless

With that said I leave this

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

If 5-10 people can hold off 100 and 2 can hold off 25 then how exactly does this resolve anything? Surely if 100 people are attacking a keep that has 5-10 people inside it then it should fall! Defence should be done by PEOPLE not siege! Siege should supplement it, not be the defining factor!

This thread is just evidence that there are very few strategic WvW players, and a lot more “takin’ a tower/keep shuld be reel ez as long as I got a hundred peeple and an auto attak. Gimme mah WXP nd make it ez” players.

I love it.

Finally a couple of people can hold off a zerg of 30 or 40 until the help arrives.

I also like that the siege seems to disappear quite quickly now if it is not used.

We still need to get it into the heads of the “mindless” zerg that building and using siege even out in the open is a good, sound strategy. If your enemy has more people than you do, a couple of arrow carts can quickly even the odds if placed and protected fairly well.

Most people will still run away or blindly hit a group head on though before thinking to drop an arrow cart and build.

Likewise, when you are trying to take a well defended keep or tower, use those catas and trebs to clear siege as well as know down a wall or door.

12 arrow carts on a gate are deadly. No doubt about it. Guess your group can’t just stand at the gate aoeing the walls and killing off the poor souls defending any longer. You will have to really work for it now and then.

Anet is moving slowly towards a semblance of balance between defending and conquering.

On the other side of the coin, I don’t mind having a challenge ahead of me before being able to take a tower from a group of defenders. This is supposed to be a challenge now and then instead of a cake walk except for when the enemy arrives with a massive team of bodies ready for defense.

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

Now this will happen (and already has happend). You go for lets say hills, you got 80 people under your command. 20 North door, 20 South door (taking your plan as example) and 10 for the ’’ninja’’ on the walls. now you have 30 people that can be spread here too or spread around the map.

What will the defense do now?

3 people on AC on N gate, 3 more on AC on the S gate, and another person on the walls, thats just 7(!) people for defending against 50-80 people, what is the rest of there numbers doing? Roaming the map taking your kitten or defending something else cause they only need a handfull of people to keep 50 people busy.

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

If 5-10 people can hold off 100 and 2 can hold off 25 then how exactly does this resolve anything? Surely if 100 people are attacking a keep that has 5-10 people inside it then it should fall! Defence should be done by PEOPLE not siege! Siege should supplement it, not be the defining factor!

The greatest defenses in history were very few holding off very many because they had a defensible location. If you as an army rush in without a plan against a group in a strongly defensible location and die, who is at fault?

How I see this update is that encourages PvD.

What’s the easiest way to counter modern AC? The way when no one is using it. U will make feint attacks somewhere and meanwhile cap something else. So the superiority of a server doesn’t come from server vs. server confrontations, it comes from the skill of avoiding combat. Some people might call my scenario strategy, I call it PvD. It certainly doesn’t encourage people to have actual epic scale PvP confrontations.

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

If 5-10 people can hold off 100 and 2 can hold off 25 then how exactly does this resolve anything? Surely if 100 people are attacking a keep that has 5-10 people inside it then it should fall! Defence should be done by PEOPLE not siege! Siege should supplement it, not be the defining factor!

The greatest defenses in history were very few holding off very many because they had a defensible location. If you as an army rush in without a plan against a group in a strongly defensible location and die, who is at fault?

What part do you not understand this is a video game and not real life? Aren’t we supposed to have fun? How is 5 people blocking your entire raid with little to no effort fun for anyone other then those 5? Its mind boggling that anyone could enjoy hiting a siege button endlessly with no danger to themselves. Sheesh go play a single player with god mode on if you want that nonsense.

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

Aneu.1748:

Dovgan.8605:

So wait, with siege actually having some kind of meaning, it forces huge groups to break apart, hit in multiple locations, and look for tactical ways to take a fortified structure? Well now, that’s just silly. Why can’t we just get groups of 70 people to beat a door down with limited repercussions? Sorry, I don’t mind the arrow cart changes, as a matter of fact I think all siege should have this kind of impact. Forcing players to think outside the box and adapt is what a great game does. So will players need to intelligently prepare a siege strategy now, sure, but it beats the heck out of a mindless zerg ball bashing 1 to capture a point. The good commanders will adapt to the change and come up with the techniques that work, the zerg commanders will fail now, and fail hard.

How does it make a zerg split up? When it takes LESS people to defend than it does to attack how do you really think smaller groups will be able to cap anything? I mean really…

Send 100 people to one door or send 25 to 4 different breakable locations. Or split forces to hit several different locations. Set a diversion up with 25 while the rest hit another keep. Use tactical approaches and break out of the zerg mindset.

If 5-10 people can hold off 100 and 2 can hold off 25 then how exactly does this resolve anything? Surely if 100 people are attacking a keep that has 5-10 people inside it then it should fall! Defence should be done by PEOPLE not siege! Siege should supplement it, not be the defining factor!

The greatest defenses in history were very few holding off very many because they had a defensible location. If you as an army rush in without a plan against a group in a strongly defensible location and die, who is at fault?

Because we are playing this to re-create real life, right? NO!!!. We are playing this for fun and enjoyment!!!! I bet those very few had an arrowcart with infinite arrows!