Counterplay? This is just delusional. Even if it were possible, I do not want to sit at my pc for 6 hours entertaining those following me as we all sit there and watch the 1 guy we have on siege charging shots so that we may or may not take down their siege, then repeat it in the hopes that we do it faster than the enemy rebuilding etc etc bla bla bla bla bla
PvP. Have you ever heard of it? Do you know what it is? There are like no wvw guilds that are interested in sitting here playing counter siege wars regardless of what you OR anet believes wvw is. (P.S sorry, your 5 man havor squad is and was insignificant, regardless of what you may believe).
Im sorry, im not going to play some trash where we sit and fire trebuchets at each other and pretend like there is something tactical in that kitten. You are all deluded honestly. Well, I hope when wvw dies that the 20 players on the map really enjoy firing treb shots at each other.
except theres no such thing as out counter sieging a few places aka:
Garrison and Hills on all 3 borderlands
Overlook on Eternal Battlegrounds
3rd floor SMC trebs
Theres others I havent mentioned, but do people even realize theres something in this game called siege height that increases the range that projectiles may fall? With the arrowcart buff and no swirling,
a) you win because you have higher ground with siege and they cant do anything to counter you, as long as defenders pay attention
b)you win because you have trebs up first firing on their trebs that are still building
With only 2 options i see this going, that’s called a boring and stale game by itself. I’m not even considering the time it would take to try to treb down your opponents walls while theyre trebbing down your trebs. Imagine how many trebs you have to build. What a boring game.
Counterplay? This is just delusional. Even if it were possible, I do not want to sit at my pc for 6 hours entertaining those following me as we all sit there and watch the 1 guy we have on siege charging shots so that we may or may not take down their siege, then repeat it in the hopes that we do it faster than the enemy rebuilding etc etc bla bla bla bla bla
PvP. Have you ever heard of it? Do you know what it is? There are like no wvw guilds that are interested in sitting here playing counter siege wars regardless of what you OR anet believes wvw is. (P.S sorry, your 5 man havoc squad is and was insignificant, regardless of what you may believe).
Im sorry, im not going to play some trash where we sit and fire trebuchets at each other and pretend like there is something tactical in that kitten. You are all deluded honestly. Well, I hope when wvw dies that the 20 players on the map really enjoy firing treb shots at each other.
There’s something I don’t understand. There are all these people claiming to want to “pvp” not fight with siege. So why not just pvp with those other guilds that want to fight players all the time. No one is focing you to get on a treb.
If AC range now approaches catapult, there is a big problem. I do not mind higher AC damage. I am so tired of big zergs pvdooring down keeps, and flipping conquests so fast none of the keeps have time to upgrade. In DAOC taking a keep was a big deal, but this game as it was before this patch had keeps and towers flipping easily.
Zergs are a problem in this game, and having the anti-personnel weapon, the AC, be effective against a zergball is good. You now have to break that zergball up into smaller pieces to avoid overlapping AC fire. You also can not now zerg down a door in no time flat.
But this range thing is a concern. The wiki says catapult range is 4000, ballista range is 3000, and AC range is 2500. Are these numbers up to date? If so a ballista and a catapult can go beyond AC range. If AC range is now 3000 or 4000, then that completely breaks the rock-paper-scissors arrangement between siege.
Golems and rams are now ninja weapons. Get in, use them before defenders can man the ACs. To pull off their use you will need to feint to draw defenders elsewhere and rapidly take with these.
Counterplay? This is just delusional. Even if it were possible, I do not want to sit at my pc for 6 hours entertaining those following me as we all sit there and watch the 1 guy we have on siege charging shots so that we may or may not take down their siege, then repeat it in the hopes that we do it faster than the enemy rebuilding etc etc bla bla bla bla bla
PvP. Have you ever heard of it? Do you know what it is? There are like no wvw guilds that are interested in sitting here playing counter siege wars regardless of what you OR anet believes wvw is. (P.S sorry, your 5 man havoc squad is and was insignificant, regardless of what you may believe).
Im sorry, im not going to play some trash where we sit and fire trebuchets at each other and pretend like there is something tactical in that kitten. You are all deluded honestly. Well, I hope when wvw dies that the 20 players on the map really enjoy firing treb shots at each other.
There’s something I don’t understand. There are all these people claiming to want to “pvp” not fight with siege. So why not just pvp with those other guilds that want to fight players all the time. No one is focing you to get on a treb.
Can you not find them in game?
if only its as simple as asking someone for gvg…
Objectives provide something that forces a fight. If they don’t fight, the lose it.
Also nothing more dynamic as having more than 1 group fighting 1 group, and having multiple groups spontaneously on the same location fighting each other
On top of that, theres nothing stopping random pugs from joining in and dropping siege. etc. etc.etc.etc.etc.
You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.
What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.
Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.
This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).
The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.
You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.
What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.
Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.
This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).
The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.
I agree with you fully except on one topic. You say the people defending this change needs to go in and fight to find out. Well they are not going to get a fight, because nobody will be playing :P
You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.
What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.
Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.
This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).
The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.
People also don’t realize that its also possible to port to a map with breakouts and have all the people in the group use a breakout event and all of a sudden have several hundred supply dumped into their hands
If AC range now approaches catapult, there is a big problem. I do not mind higher AC damage. I am so tired of big zergs pvdooring down keeps, and flipping conquests so fast none of the keeps have time to upgrade. In DAOC taking a keep was a big deal, but this game as it was before this patch had keeps and towers flipping easily.
Zergs are a problem in this game, and having the anti-personnel weapon, the AC, be effective against a zergball is good. You now have to break that zergball up into smaller pieces to avoid overlapping AC fire. You also can not now zerg down a door in no time flat.
But this range thing is a concern. The wiki says catapult range is 4000, ballista range is 3000, and AC range is 2500. Are these numbers up to date? If so a ballista and a catapult can go beyond AC range. If AC range is now 3000 or 4000, then that completely breaks the rock-paper-scissors arrangement between siege.
Golems and rams are now ninja weapons. Get in, use them before defenders can man the ACs. To pull off their use you will need to feint to draw defenders elsewhere and rapidly take with these.
But you cant draw them off. We rotate scouts in keeps for 18 hours (other guilds do the other times). Besides how will you draw them off? Hit something else they own? It only takes 3-5 people to stop 40 now so why would they move?
Damage increase is actually a good idea now that I think back on how many times I stood in a ring just laughing at the damage. However, if there was more than 1 shooting it’d actually start to hurt. Arenanet just needs to reduce the amount of arrow carts that can be placed. Not siege in general, just arrow carts. And reduce damage going through a gate or not even have any damage go through gates from arrow carts. Those untargetable arrow carts are bull kitten and they make ramming impossible.
People saying defenders “finally” get an advantage. Your advantage has been those giant walls/gates protecting you. It isn’t very fun sitting on siege and not very rewarding, but you have never been at a disadvantage.
Counterplay? This is just delusional. Even if it were possible, I do not want to sit at my pc for 6 hours entertaining those following me as we all sit there and watch the 1 guy we have on siege charging shots so that we may or may not take down their siege, then repeat it in the hopes that we do it faster than the enemy rebuilding etc etc bla bla bla bla bla
PvP. Have you ever heard of it? Do you know what it is? There are like no wvw guilds that are interested in sitting here playing counter siege wars regardless of what you OR anet believes wvw is. (P.S sorry, your 5 man havoc squad is and was insignificant, regardless of what you may believe).
Im sorry, im not going to play some trash where we sit and fire trebuchets at each other and pretend like there is something tactical in that kitten. You are all deluded honestly. Well, I hope when wvw dies that the 20 players on the map really enjoy firing treb shots at each other.
Then this isn’t the game for you and you’re not cut out to play a siege based mmo. the other players have it right and this is a positive thing. I wouldn’t have had a blanket increase to arrowcart damage, but it’s still a positive change to the game. Sieging a structure should take time and effort. There should be more to this game then camp flipping.
You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.
What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.
Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.
This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).
The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.
How do you get back in? The enemy is outside blocking your way. The waypoint is locked.
You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.
What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.
Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.
This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).
The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.
People also don’t realize that its also possible to port to a map with breakouts and have all the people in the group use a breakout event and all of a sudden have several hundred supply dumped into their hands
Exactly, then port back into the keep in 3 minutes, repair the fortified wall that went down to 95% before you got your mortars lined up to kill their trebs, and then build more counter trebs and AC with that supply. Now if they go take 3 camps, (that now have unkillable buffs so it wont be fast) to resupply and build more trebs, you have the trebs up first.
Even if they get the walls down, you’ve had time to build ACs to cover that choke THEY ARE NEVER GETTING INSIDE. And the whole time, you’ve never had to actually use your weapons against another player.
I tried WvW last night for a couple of hours and I found absolutely no problem with the new arrow carts. Granted I don’t stand around like a knob in the cross fire and our group had no problem taking down defended gates. I did notice though the range is a tad bit ridiculous on how far they can fire outside the keeps.
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
The way it is now, I think it’s fine, but if these AC’s are posing that much of a problem for groups to siege keeps, then perhaps having the siege equipment cost supplies or ammunition itself will do the trick.
I tried WvW last night for a couple of hours and I found absolutely no problem with the new arrow carts. Granted I don’t stand around like a knob in the cross fire and our group had no problem taking down defended gates. I did notice though the range is a tad bit ridiculous on how far they can fire outside the keeps.
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
The way it is now, I think it’s fine, but if these AC’s are posing that much of a problem for groups to siege keeps, then perhaps having the siege equipment cost supplies or ammunition itself will do the trick.
On what server you’re playing?
Aloha Luana – The Iron Triangle [IRON]
Warrior – Gunnar’s Hold
Will always love Elona!
This is just a joke. We just open Hill Keep, entered with around 40-50 men, and almost everyone was instantly down by the around 10 people and Arrowcarts on the gate
If this isn’t fixed how should it be posssible to take a keep with an enemy zerg in it.
You attack else where or starve the place down… you know, lets reason lol, i have this fortress i have 50people, defenders have 50people and fortress, if you storm it you die, simple as that, it what happens irl, but those 50people aint at other places, and each side only have a limit to the people they can marchal, so if you need to spread out, a few can stop many, wich hurts the zerg the most, adapt move ! or set up a long term siege
Miriel de Clavo – Elementalist
Fey Sparrow – Warrior
If i nag about things, its only couse i care ;P
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
You could actually simplify that ALOT by doing two things:
- Each shot of a siege equipment reduce its HP by a certain percent
- Siege can be repaired for supply
And there you have it. Constant fire by 12+ carts will drain your keeps supply (or destroy the ACs).
Some people’s constitutional inability to admit they’re wrong…it’s just baffling.
This word…I do not think it means what you think it means.
CONSTITUTIONAL (con·sti·tu·tion·al)
1- Of or pertaining to the constitution of a state, organization, etc.
2- Subject to the provisions of such a constitution: a constitutional monarchy.
3- Provided by, in accordance with, or not prohibited by, such a constitution: the constitutional powers of the president; a constitutional law.
4- belonging to or inherent in the character or makeup of a person’s body or mind: a constitutional weakness for sweets.
Nah you didn’t get it. Why would he admit that he’s wrong when he’s right?
A “constitutional inability” would imply that it’s some sort of character flaw and he’s unwilling to recognize an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary of his opinion. Seems to apply more to those defending the change in this case…
You questioned my understanding of the word; I clarified and pointed out that my usage was correct. I do indeed believe that those complaining most loudly about this change are simply unwilling to accept that their doom-and-gloom predictions are wrong, or else they won’t admit they are wrong because that would somehow embarrass them (why I have no clue).
You say those in favor of it are the ones who are wrong. That’s a matter of perception only. The usage of the word is correct, and saying “Nuh uh, I’m not wrong YOU are so you used the word incorrectly in the context of this sentence” doesn’t change that.
For the record; I’m a gigantic fan of George Carlin and his obsession over the sanctity and elegance of the English language.
My point, which you have again missed, was that his opinion was based on a 24-hour period of observation and the resulting overwhelming body of evidence, not a flaw “inherent in the character or makeup of a person’s body or mind.” Therefore the word was used incorrectly. For such a huge fan of the elegance of the English language, you seem to miss some of the subtleties and finer points.
This is just a joke. We just open Hill Keep, entered with around 40-50 men, and almost everyone was instantly down by the around 10 people and Arrowcarts on the gate
If this isn’t fixed how should it be posssible to take a keep with an enemy zerg in it.
Siege them from multiple directions and drain their supplies. Works like a charm
Yeah, except all this video showcases is the need for not mindlessly zerging. If they had just pushed for the arrow carts, they could have downed the operators instantly and destroyed them in quick succession. Yeah, standing in mass aoe will get you killed. Boo hoo.
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
You could actually simplify that ALOT by doing two things:
- Each shot of a siege equipment reduce its HP by a certain percent
- Siege can be repaired for supply
And there you have it. Constant fire by 12+ carts will drain your keeps supply (or destroy the ACs).
I think this is a fantastic idea, but would probably necessitate the removal of the despawn timer. Losing placed siege to both a timer and lack of supply would get a bit irritating in my opinion, but then again I find the despawn timer a nuisance to begin with.
I’m getting a kicked about people complaining “How are we ever to take Hill’s now?” Yet then state they only care about open field fighting. Which means you never cared about the PPT anyway!
If this causes those Guilds to leave WvW, those that never cared about the PPT, then GOOD! The rest of us can finally get in without waiting on the freaking queue.
I tried WvW last night for a couple of hours and I found absolutely no problem with the new arrow carts. Granted I don’t stand around like a knob in the cross fire and our group had no problem taking down defended gates. I did notice though the range is a tad bit ridiculous on how far they can fire outside the keeps.
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
The way it is now, I think it’s fine, but if these AC’s are posing that much of a problem for groups to siege keeps, then perhaps having the siege equipment cost supplies or ammunition itself will do the trick.
It’s not good enough as a fix to this problem (it is a problem, many people have already given examples as to how these new arrowcarts are a problem, there is even another thread that has gathered such examples) but it is a good idea and definitely a step in the right direction.
I do not think it is a good enough but I support that idea because it is better than nothing.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
I tried WvW last night for a couple of hours and I found absolutely no problem with the new arrow carts. Granted I don’t stand around like a knob in the cross fire and our group had no problem taking down defended gates. I did notice though the range is a tad bit ridiculous on how far they can fire outside the keeps.
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
The way it is now, I think it’s fine, but if these AC’s are posing that much of a problem for groups to siege keeps, then perhaps having the siege equipment cost supplies or ammunition itself will do the trick.
It’s not good enough as a fix to this problem (it is a problem, many people have already given examples as to how these new arrowcarts are a problem, there is even another thread that has gathered such examples) but it is a good idea and definitely a step in the right direction.
I do not think it is a good enough but I support that idea because it is better than nothing.
I think it is a step in the right direction.. may not be enough.. though maybe it will be. Maybe adding in a separate ammunition supply cache into the game to fuel siege equipment. I mean, hell, you need ammo to use them, why not make it so we actually have to find, pick up, or take over ammo supply camps for it. We’ll see how this pans out over the next week or 2.
As for the person asking me what server I play on (whoever that was) im on TC tier 2.
I’m getting a kicked about people complaining “How are we ever to take Hill’s now?” Yet then state they only care about open field fighting. Which means you never cared about the PPT anyway!
If this causes those Guilds to leave WvW, those that never cared about the PPT, then GOOD! The rest of us can finally get in without waiting on the freaking queue.
These guilds cared about fighting indeed and they took keeps to get fights going. They used the PPT to find fights. The objectives can be used as an incentive to fight, it is a valid way of playing the game. You’ll even find that most servers find this the most enjoyable way of playing the game. If they did not then they wouldn’t because it has never been the most efficient way.
Also I think you might be very lonely in this idea that these guilds leaving the game would be good. I’m quite sure Anet would disagree as well. These are guilds that advance the meta, that keep the game interesting and the things they do generate so much publicity for the game and indirectly generate income for Anet. You do not want these guilds to leave.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
The arguments here really demonstrate the difference between two play styles in wvw. People who prefer proper siege warfare like the change and people who like open field fights and only use objectives as focal points to find action hate this change.
It’s hard to fill the desire of both groups at once, maybe instead of complaining about the change, the second group should encourage ANET to tweak the mechanisms to encourage more open field battles? I think this change is good for the siege warfare aspect of WvW (the range of AC needs some tweaking) and who knows it may actually create more opportunities for open field battles as well (like more open field siege battles, and more efforts at blocking reinforcements etc).
arrow cart was fine before, useful enough to provide additional support fire without being too overkill, i have no idea why they feel the need to buff it up,
i am frudoo,a forum warrior, an expert wvw analyst, and a closet fanboy of Jade Quarry server.
I think a solution though that could work to quell the complaining is to just have the arrow carts use 1 supply for every shot you take. Basically if somebody hops on with 10 supply, they get 10 shots until they have to hop off. This could be done with all siege equipment. Hell, maybe add a separate “ammunition” supply separate from the supplies we have now that you need to fire the siege equipment. Perhaps also make the ammunition supplies random drops from killing enemies as well.
You could actually simplify that ALOT by doing two things:
- Each shot of a siege equipment reduce its HP by a certain percent
- Siege can be repaired for supply
And there you have it. Constant fire by 12+ carts will drain your keeps supply (or destroy the ACs).
I think this is a fantastic idea, but would probably necessitate the removal of the despawn timer. Losing placed siege to both a timer and lack of supply would get a bit irritating in my opinion, but then again I find the despawn timer a nuisance to begin with.
You could expand on the idea and say that after a certain period of inactivity, the siege will DoT to death, unless someone enter it or it get repaired again (which reset the timer).
I do think a timer is needed to “clean up” siege on a server level. You dont want siege hidden somewhere that stays there forever.
This would also make the timer visible to players, they can warn that hey the arrowcarts are loosing HP now better repair or loose them to despawn.
I’m just here to add to the rant:
Played two very boring evenings now and I really start to get kitten . I get that zerging is not fun, it really isn’t, but arrow cart bunkering is even worse. Very bad decision ArenaNet.
Salix Babylonica (Necro), Tharnath (Guardian), N Faculty (Mesmer),
Occam Pi (Ele), Acaena Elongata (Warrior), Finja Salversdotir (Ranger),
Bytestream (Engineer), Vim Whitespace (Thief)
Here’s an example of how weak an AC was. I clearly remember standing in QL’s LR back in December. An invader was trying to pass along the north side in the shallow water. I was raining arrows on him and barely slowed him down. A teammate came in and killed him.
The corpse persisted to stay there thus, I kept watch. A minute later here comes along another invader. I go full bore on him with the AC as soon as he’s within range. He successfully limped in, rezzed the corpse, and they both hobbled away.
How was an AC not pathetically week if this can occur? It needed a buff to become a realistic siege engine.
@dewolfe i can see where your coming from but a arrowcart is a massive aoe weapon aka small damage to a large group. if you used a balista on that guy trying to ress gg you got 2 corpses
The way I look at it, they’re trying to give smaller numbers of people a chance to fight off large groups. With these new additions, it will force zergs to implement a little more strategy.
The damage increase and range on the arrow carts are going to force more strategy than just zerg balling. Its a fantastic addition, one that I welcome.
thing i dont get is, why dont people see the reverse of this? if it helps the smaller number of players, it would also help the superior numbers of players as well by 80%!!
you’ll never be able to capture anything if they cant capture it either because they can apply same tactics you use, and defend it easier because they still have numbers to spare.
Again, that goes back to coordination and strategy, thats what this is going to boil down to. People working together. Forcing people to work together, and do things differently whether its offensive or defensive.
i’ll admit that prior patch defenders couldnt do much to stop the 40man group with 10 when theyre flipping a tower, but buff arrow carts up 80% isn’t the solution i believe. they need a different type of siege that is only built via the building, similar to a cannon.
exactly!! if they couldnt do it prior to the buff, they wont be able to after the buff, unless you mean defensive, this just gave defensive players a strong foothold which is ok, but in the long run, i personally see it not helping much.
idk maybe in 7months theyll finally realize that 80% is OP and reduce it back down 80% without meeting the middle ground like confusion.
GW has never been a static game, it evolves constantly. The devs see whet they perceive as problems and make some changes to solve them. Like any complex environment, that may then spawn unintended consequences. What is clear from this change and the 30 mins swords delay is anet feels the zergs running around totally ruling the maps is hurting wvw. Now the zergs cannot just blows the doors off every tower and keep, and then run back to their stuff to blow away a sieging enemy before it puts a dent in a gate. Did they go too far? idk, I played a couple hours last night and it didn’t seem that different, but that’s one night, and its tier 5, not 1. But I guarantee you this will not be the last tactics changing tweak in wvw, get used to it. And I just don’t see how people who really enjoy this format find it game breaking to the point of quitting (so tiring to hear that after every single update). Work on new tactics to deal with the new reality on the ground. It’s a level playing field, same new rules for all tiers. C’mon guys, don’t take your ball and go home, think your way through this and be better than your opposing servers.
Martin Firestorm, Borlis Pass
Gaile Gray wrote:
Oh wait, read Martin Firestorm, he says it better…
Here’s an example of how weak an AC was. I clearly remember standing in QL’s LR back in December. An invader was trying to pass along the north side in the shallow water. I was raining arrows on him and barely slowed him down. A teammate came in and killed him.
The corpse persisted to stay there thus, I kept watch. A minute later here comes along another invader. I go full bore on him with the AC as soon as he’s within range. He successfully limped in, rezzed the corpse, and they both hobbled away.
How was an AC not pathetically week if this can occur? It needed a buff to become a realistic siege engine.
first of all, its an arrow cart, if its just 1 invader you shouldve just went to go kill him 1v1, at least you wouldve had a 50% chance, if you had a balista yea, you wouldve got him for sure. balistas might as well be pointless to build now, since AC does just about as much dmg per attack as well as a bigger aoe.
Nope. Arrow carts are now doing what this game desperately needed: a way to put some risk back into the “blobs”. Yeah blobbing makes you immune to player AE but now arrow carts will rip you up.
Time to do something slightly more clever than zerg zerg zerg. The people complaining are the same people that would have quit next month anyway after complaining the game was “too easy” and “boring”.
I’d say it depends on how they interpret the results of this “test”. If it doesn’t reduce large forces smashing together spamming skills and causing server lag in a meaningful way, I could see them rolling back some of the changes.
Arrowcarts damage should stay as is for players only, not siege.
This is a good point, actually.
Arrows are meant for hitting flesh. There’s really no reason they should have much effect on solid wood and metal, e.g. every piece of siege in existence.
It’d also make rams and golems viable again now that a single AC can massacre either. Nowadays the only purpose a ram has in taking an objective is if it’s deserted or defended by someone too dumb/unsupplied to build a slaughtercart.
The arguments here really demonstrate the difference between two play styles in wvw. People who prefer proper siege warfare like the change and people who like open field fights and only use objectives as focal points to find action hate this change.
Yes, and I think it goes even beyond two play styles. People have different experiences on different tiers and servers, in different time zones, and on different maps.
One person may nightly face enemies who make great use of siege, while another person may be up against servers who only build siege at the last minute, if they happen to have supply.
Where is Devon? We need a feedback from the staff.
I think we do know their rationale behind their actions tbh.
And with them looking through these threads, I think we know why that are not coming with a statement why they did it – they know we are not gonna like it
