Guild Wars 2

I just finally made the connection that the spartans were the first RL exploiters. History naturally refers to them as brilliant tacticians who brutalized and nearly conquered their entire known world. But nay I say, I say these men were the first case of hackers, just look at them turtling up to defy the odds of being out-maned in their war. Such brilliance could only naturally lead to Persians screaming “exploiters!”

I digress however, to the heart of what is truely working against people who are not understanding why A-net calls these tactics and allows them to continue. Let us take again from history, when the war for Helena Troy the “Face that launched a thousand ships,” was on its last ropes they then had the second instance of RL hacking. They built a wooden horse, and pretended to be wiped out by plague during a peace time for funerals. Within that horse was several men who opened the gates of the city to let the army in. Mesmers I say and their game breaking portal, surely it was them who thought up this devious scheme!

Everyone starting to see the points I make here, instead of talking about how these things that you can find in history are, whether intentionally or not by A-net, has a correlation between history’s tried and true tactics. My good people I could continue going to the war of Independence here in the United States of America. When a young General named George Washington realized he could not win a war standing in lines and trading shots back and forth with his opponents. Instead of fighting a conventional war he instead resorted to guerrilla tactics to gain the advantage. So like George we the Blackgate server have found our own tactics to assist us in winning this war. And the same goes for the rest of the game.

Adapt, fight, kill but most importantly, have fun. I salute all who have made us adapt our own tactics. I thank you JQ and SBI, you have truely brought out the best in our strategists! We will continue to learn with you and I look forward to seeing you in the field.

/salute

TL;DR, Match was a lot of fun till you guys couldn’t step up and win fairly, turtling is funny though, like wandering into the apocalypse, only its after you die you start seeing the demons in the sky.

Woah!! Calm down here this about the camaraderie we should all feel as enemies, not something to go down the “gets this locked up post” please. The point of this is A-net is doing an amazing job making a game fun, its hard for them to stop all instances of those kind of cheaters. But I am sure they are working hard to sort things out. Give them time! Seriously great job with the tactics A-net its given this game a whole new level of interesting.

You’re failing to mention that if a rain of fire was dropped on the Spartans, more than 5 would get hit. I’ve also enver quite seen human bodies merge together to form a giant blob of… I don’t even know what this is :p
(I’m also not big on horror/monster movies by the way, which might explain the last point)

Well characters collision on this game would be a nightmare. I could see people /sleeping and jumping on top of eachother to make a human ladder ontop of a wall instead of laying siege.

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

They should implement that, would be amazing.

I hope there are people with more sense on BG, and that this is an isolated case of lunacy. All you will be remembered for is the dishonorable way in which you have gone about fighting this matchup. Every score thread has been closed thanks to the antics of people on your server, and the weekend’s not even over.
Respect is earned, and you lot do not deserve any, seeing the way you go about things.

I don’t think it’s an exploit, not everything which wasn’t intended is exploiting.
It is however boring, and when i see it, i’m a bit like “…. Really? They couldn’t think of anything better than that?”

I hope my guild never develops this as a much-used strategy, and i don’t think it will be viable for too long, with the exposure it’s getting recently – even if people don’t figure out how to counter it, this might actually be something ANet fixes.

If they remove the AoE limit then I will call it a fair tactic

Stormcycle.4208:

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

Well ok lets say A-net removes the no more than 5 people hit by an AoE at one time thing. Then we can use elementalist healing much more effectively because what they do to damage is also done to buffs. If they did that it would only make us stronger in the long run.

Hence why they can’t do anything about it. Funny thing is I have a lot of screenies of the entire turtle being dead because you guys are adapting to it.

Socrates method of thinking More of that history stuff =)

Flamethrowers don’t discriminate on stacks of 30 people popping up, it’s fun.

Steadfast.5827:

Stormcycle.4208:

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

Well ok lets say A-net removes the no more than 5 people hit by an AoE at one time thing. Then we can use elementalist healing much more effectively because what they do to damage is also done to buffs. If they did that it would only make us stronger in the long run.

Hence why they can’t do anything about it. Funny thing is I have a lot of screenies of the entire turtle being dead because you guys are adapting to it.

Socrates method of thinking More of that history stuff =)

thats fine, remove the AoE limit and lets roll with that plan. I like it

(drop a nuclear bomb on a group of Persians and Spartans stacked on top of one another in a dog pile)

Well I’m off, but I leave you with a thought. The same issue you have with the max of 5 AoE is the same issue we have with the max of 5 healing, its all about learning and adapting. There are a few things in the game without a max target, the question is what…

The thing with heal specs – noone wants to heal spec. There is no reward.
Combine that with there are much more damaging aoes than healing ones.. and this cheap tactic borderline exploit would be fixed.

But seriously, the blackgate server we fought 3 weeks ago I have respect for as an adversary. This one?
Cheap. Laughable. Exploiters.

Also, mesmer portals aren’t limited to 5. Nor are warrior shouts.

Steadfast.5827:

Well I’m off, but I leave you with a thought. The same issue you have with the max of 5 AoE is the same issue we have with the max of 5 healing, its all about learning and adapting. There are a few things in the game without a max target, the question is what…

Yes, learning which abilities don’t have a target cap. Everyone knew about this months ago. The most common ones are using a “Shout Warrior” (Vigorous Shouts trait) for healing. Or using Guardian “Symbol Healing” (Writ of the Merciful trait).

Only a few damaging abilities bypass the 5-target cap, obscure things like Elementalist Glyph of Storms (Earth) or a Necromancer using Epidemic. Good luck with Conditions on a Turtle though, as they spam remove them.

Blackgate since 3D headstart from day 1 over here. A lot of my friends and I dislike the horde of new transfers. We didn’t have 24/7 coverage until the past few weeks, but we still had a good showing in WvW strength and a great community to boot. Now all these transfers pulled the lowest detonator with them seeking cheap and easy wins and this “beastgate” non sense. OP is case and point. We don’t like it at all.. I hope you guys find another server to bandwagon on soon, we won’t miss you.

Unless my bow just shoots ridiculously fast, there appears to be no target limit on piercing arrows either.

Blackgate might win the match but they seem to have lost the respect of their peers.

Agree with the above post.. 5 orb “disappearances” in less than 2 days makes it not fun. I know all servers have bad apples but that has to be a record for any server so far in less than 2 days..

the blackgate server as a whole is losing respect for it i was wvw’ing a good deal before we hit top 9 it was nice and fun and fair. we had a good community and around 50 commanders now we have around 1500 people from other servers transferring over becasue there server lost and want a fresh start. majority of the new wvw’ing blackgate is made up of HoD and IoJ ask around most will tell u the same along with some from ET thats where all the wvw’ing population from those servers went. so i am from blackgate and yes some stuff is going down i don’t wvw anymore but i will say were not the only ones hacking havn’t seen anything myself but i know some of the other servers were playing are too but if i had 2 guess i’d say its more in self defense but what i’m trying 2 say here is don’t let blackgate as a whole get a bad rep we can’t control free transfers

I’ve been wvw’ing for awhile.. On average, on tier 1, there are usually about 3 to 5 of these “orb disappearances” total committed by all 3 servers combined in a week. But this week, one server has committed it 5 times in less than 2 days.. I guess the closer we are to Halloween, the more of these events will occur with Mad King’s minion roaming around..

Blackgate have a very good chance of winning this week matchup, excellent coverage and new tactics courtesy of Euro imports. So enjoy the new transfers as they will keep coming…

As for server reputation and attitude since the influx, well i leave it to the native BG people to judge and see whether is it better or not in the long run.

Tier 1 is a joke this week and I think a lot of people are just taking the rest of the week off in protest. Trashgate has no ones respect.

Haha! All I am reading is a bunch of butt hurt people that don’t like losing.

You think Blackgate is the only one turtling? You think Blackgate hasn’t had their orb “magically” disappear? You think Blackgate is the only one portal bombing? What a joke lol. I have played in WvWvW ALL weekend! I saw my fair number of those tactics used by ALL three servers too.

So get off your high horses and realize that its fair game since everyone seems to be using it. Is it right? I will leave that up to Anet to decide. Loss of respect? Only because a fresh new server full of fresh transfers from a lot of your precious HoD and JQ is now ranking on top the charts.

Mouse.4782:

I hope there are people with more sense on BG, and that this is an isolated case of lunacy. All you will be remembered for is the dishonorable way in which you have gone about fighting this matchup. Every score thread has been closed thanks to the antics of people on your server, and the weekend’s not even over.
Respect is earned, and you lot do not deserve any, seeing the way you go about things.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/SBI-JQ-BG-3rd-time-lucky-10-26-2012 i guess this counts as a post us at BG got locked even thou no one from BG posted on before you start blaming others you should look in the mirror.

All the people having a cry about this stacking “exploit”, WM used the same tactic against us.

If stacking is an “illegal” tactic then so are mesmer bombs. Stacking uses the game mechanics to limit AOE damage, where mesmer bombs use the games culling issues to make your zerg invisible. In fact of the two tactics the mesmer bomb is far closer to exploiting, but hey since both JQ and SBI use it it’s just fine…

As for BG orb hacking, we’ve had our orbs hacked too. It sucks, but hackers are on all our servers. You can’t blame an entire server for it. I find it funny that people try to blame an entire server when their own server is reaping benefits from hackers as well. Do exactly what BG does, screenshot/video, report, and tell ArenaNet to fix it. Any more than that and you’re a hypocrite because you’re benefiting from hackers as well.

Raven Paradox.1860:

Stormcycle.4208:

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

Yeah. Blackgate are the only ones that do this. I’ve never seen SBI or JQ or any server we’ve ever faced use these tactics. You guys whine about fair tactics, and all we do is laugh. Not at the thought, but it’s because you guys use every excuse in the book to satisfy your weak minds to think you’re only losing because of cheats. We’re winning because we’re better than you. End of story.

You’re winning at this point b/c of hacks and people tired of participating against that crap. I have yet to see any of the BG crew do anything that impresses me. In even number encounters you guys fold like a napkin. That’s why you guys resorted to hacking when you dropped out of the first spot on night one.

BG will never be respected no matter how many wins you have.

you laugh, I whine, my mind is weak, im a loser and you are a winner.

But besides all that, they really do need to remove the AoE limit, increase it to 30 people or just go all out and make it infinite targets. I still dont think the intention for WvW was for a group of 40 people standing literally on top of one another, to be porting around with mesmer portals only so as to remain this invulnerable glob of people firing aoe, heals and whatever.

I think they intended for the game to be played by groups of people spread out using tactics. In any case there is a lot of tweaking that needs to go on in WvW.

Ah well, it was a good match Blackgate.

kidbs.8920:

Raven Paradox.1860:

Stormcycle.4208:

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

Yeah. Blackgate are the only ones that do this. I’ve never seen SBI or JQ or any server we’ve ever faced use these tactics. You guys whine about fair tactics, and all we do is laugh. Not at the thought, but it’s because you guys use every excuse in the book to satisfy your weak minds to think you’re only losing because of cheats. We’re winning because we’re better than you. End of story.

You’re winning at this point b/c of hacks and people tired of participating against that crap. I have yet to see any of the BG crew do anything that impresses me. In even number encounters you guys fold like a napkin. That’s why you guys resorted to hacking when you dropped out of the first spot on night one.

BG will never be respected no matter how many wins you have.

Sounds like you’re crying. Go to JQ borderlands right now, in which we own basically all of it. Go search for hacks. You’ll find none.

Enough of your crying about hacks when it’s been legitimate gameplay. We understand, you’re upset that you guys are losing and we’re pulling away. It’s perfectly understandable when you’re a competitive person. But we don’t want the respect of people that are going to use and make up any excuse imaginable to while they’re losing instead of just admitting that a different team is better. If you truly think we’re hacking, feel free to report us. But we won’t get banned, because we are not hacking. One person does not define a server. Whether there was an orb hacker or not is beyond me as I never witnessed one. But when I’ve been playing, and we’ve been taking over things, we’ve haven’t had a single hacker. What we have seen is JQ and SBI turtling up and portal bombing.

LOL now this guy is saying there’re NO HACKs that will be found… it’s like saying SI and JQ ppl are liars… i was there when the first Fly Hack happened, left right away and posted it here but the very first thread got done. After that i slept then woke up, log on gw2 and guess what another fly hack orb happened… not even 24 hours in for this week and 2 hacks did happen already. Now, even JQ said their orb get hacked… do i believe them? YES ofc i do… i saw it first hand on ours. Now you’re saying we are making an excuse? LOL really? NOTHING so ridiculous like this ever happened since you guys came in all honesty. What makes you believe that everyone in our server are actually playing and trying compared to last week’s? After pulling cheap tricks and what not, most of us can not be bothered. So yes go pull away as much as you can, and we do not give a care no more. I know it’s not the whole server, but people like you in your server making excuses of it and DENYING it is a different thing. Here’s what i think imo:

JQ won because they have such great 24/7 coverage…
SbI won because they’re long overdue…
BG will win because…

maybe idk ask around apart from your own server and the other 2 involved servers in this week’s match right now to what they think… idk, answers may surprise us or most likely not… we’ll have to wait and see what they think dont we

BG will win cause they use 20 golems at time on every borderland every normal day

Hate or break, it turns out that BG isnt that good.

As someone native to fort aspenwood

Holy kitten t1 bracket kids get your heads out your own kitten

Sorry if that seems mean, but on FA we would see people using mesmer bombs and stacking against us. Know what we got told? “Yeah, that’s called co-ordination. it’s how good teams beat zergs” So we sucked it up and got better. Now im seeing all these people from the t kittening one bracket complaining about a strategy that’s already been accepted in the lower brackets? Makes me wonder how they actually made it to T1, probably wasnt their co-ordination if they didnt use “cheesy” tactics. Sounds a heck of a lot more like zergway 24/7 to me.

don’t know why they use a exploit.

ClickJ.6287:

don’t know why they use a exploit.

Thats called a bug. Dont know why top tier bracket players have never encountered it before. Happens all the time.

Here’s a similar one, in which an altar inside the blackgate garrison remained SBI, and was even spawning SBI veteran monsters, had the orb been in that keep you’d see a similar picture to the one you have there.

I assume no SBI hacks were used in the making of this picture.

and 1 more, whether intended or not sbi can’t hold 1 orb (bg borderland)because of unfixable altar.

Some of Koreans who’re in korean forum (include me) agreed not to join wvw this weeks because this week’s wvw has too many bug to play.
yeah, kinda boycott’ing.
I’m not blame BG, just blame anet who are paying full attention to boring and laggy halloween event instead of fixing WvW bugs asap.

All i can say is mesmer time warp elite no limit=OP AS HELL!!!!!
forget blue prints, because if your in a zerg of 50+ with 10mesmer, gate is paper.

It’s a total joke this week. Total joke. Which is a shame as I was so looking forward to another 3-way fight. That’s not gonna happen, because people aren’t going to play with so much glitchy BS on the map. There isn’t even an orb on JQ BL. Where it went … couldn’t tell ya!

And yes, without the ‘turtle’ army, BG flees like small children. I fended off 2 watergate attacks with 1 arrow cart. That must be the reason you do it, as you’d get the stuffing knocked out of you otherwise. If you’re going to deny this, you need to actually prove it.

@ zhon

Speaking of fleeing like small children.

here are 10 Blackgate players forcing back an entire JQ zerg while standing outside our gate which had literally no defensive siege on it.

And if I had bothered to take any I could post pictures of ~5 BG players forcing over 20 SBI back into their spawn point without the use of siege.
But no, all BG players flee like small children in the face of big scary JQ zergs eh? ;o

What i find funny is there seems to be a counter to the turtle there all complaining about havant completely confirmed (however have confirmed ive been able to hit every target i hit with certain AoEs which have been more than 5, not sure if there a max on it though since the most people i can find stacked up is about 8 and it definetly hit all 8 people) it yet but it seems some AoE can hit well and truely more than 5 targets at once. Find these skill and a bit of organization you will be able to counter it. Of course i wont say which ones they are since im BG. And i would prefer you people thinking of a counter yourself than whinge about it 24/7.

Zahdane.4029:

Cheap. Laughable. Exploiters.

Pot calling the kettle black. Saw more exploitation of culling and rendering issues from SBI than any other server last week.

But, no point getting mad about it. Just remember you’re at the top of the table — everyone is going to be using everything at their disposal to win the match-up, cause everyone wants to be #1. Expect every dirty trick in the book to be played, and beat them back with your own dirty tricks. There are no gentleman’s rules in war!

Stormcycle.4208:

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

No tactic is unbeatable, I can think of at least three ways right now on how to flatten a stacking team or make it ineffective, so you can figure it out as well.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

How is the game supposed to be played? Zerg and whoever has more people wins? I can give you a long history of examples where “undefeatable” turned out to be just another step in military evolution. Greek Phalanx was thought to be undefeatable until it faced the Romans. Legions were thought to be undefeatable until they faced heavy cavalry. Heavily fortified cities such as Constantinople were thought to be unconquerable until the advent of gunpowder, French defensive lines were though undefeatable until Germans simply drove around them. Soviet army was thought to be undefeatable without tactical nukes until AirLand Battle doctrine.

None of those relied on some “great god” to change the rules and somehow make the enemy weaker. No, all of them relied on common people (with significant military knowledge and experience) seeing a challenge and finding a way to beat it. You can do it, but you have to rise up to the challenge and try so long that you succeed. Names like Caesar, Alexander, Napoleon, Washington are remembered throughout centuries and millenia. You know why? Because they rose up to the challenge, because they faced the odds and because they succeeded of at least failed within the grasp of success. Will you?

@ Tuffy

Thanks for bringing the point back home. The point of this thread is not to discuss the true cheaters. WE have no control over them. The point is to discuss tactics, and their uses. And please lift the cap on the AoE target, I want to be truely invincible. Side note BG didn’t have queues longer than 2 mins since Friday, most of the time its instant, if we let our forces battle it out with yours without some sort of tactic we would be loosing.

tufy.7859:

Stormcycle.4208:

it was just a terrible analogy and a wall of text in the attempt to give credit to a tactic that is obviously abusing the AoE limit of 5 random people being hit at a time. By doing so they are making themselves invulnerable to almost all area effect attacks. Pair this with a mesmer or two who run ahead and drop port, and then the whole zerg ports and remains stacked, and you have an unbeatable strategy.

No tactic is unbeatable, I can think of at least three ways right now on how to flatten a stacking team or make it ineffective, so you can figure it out as well.

Clever yes, but it is an exploit in my book because I don’t think that they intended for the game to be played like that.

How is the game supposed to be played? Zerg and whoever has more people wins? I can give you a long history of examples where “undefeatable” turned out to be just another step in military evolution. Greek Phalanx was thought to be undefeatable until it faced the Romans. Legions were thought to be undefeatable until they faced heavy cavalry. Heavily fortified cities such as Constantinople were thought to be unconquerable until the advent of gunpowder, French defensive lines were though undefeatable until Germans simply drove around them. Soviet army was thought to be undefeatable without tactical nukes until AirLand Battle doctrine.

None of those relied on some “great god” to change the rules and somehow make the enemy weaker. No, all of them relied on common people (with significant military knowledge and experience) seeing a challenge and finding a way to beat it. You can do it, but you have to rise up to the challenge and try so long that you succeed. Names like Caesar, Alexander, Napoleon, Washington are remembered throughout centuries and millenia. You know why? Because they rose up to the challenge, because they faced the odds and because they succeeded of at least failed within the grasp of success. Will you?

You would have a point except all those armies faced a strict reality. If they were standing in a burning fire, they would all burn. God wouldn’t come down and select 5 random suckers.

People exploit the limitations of the mechanics, but that doesn’t mean that the mechanics aren’t flawed. Making excuses for it doesn’t take away from the fact that WvW is far from perfect and should be adjusted to make game play more FUN!

Cause I don’t see a lot of fun in just standing in one spot spamming attacks and hitting F every time a portal pops for you. Some people will do anything to win, even forgetting about having fun.

this is a game-breaking level “tactic”, and with escalation would be the equivalent analogy of all countries arming up-to nuke level warfare and forget all other forms of warfare.

This eliminates all melee from the game in any most cases, not to mention the escalation to “zerg ONLY” warfare.

This is not spartan this is “I’m willing to push the nuke button and ruin it for everyone”, because this will get portals and ranged warfare nerfed, as more and more people are refusing to play with this in game, as is. This is intentionally taking advantage of unintended mechanics.

It’s not rocket science how to do it so why are so few groups using it.. because the rest see it as game-breaking catalyst, not an ingenious evolution in GW2 warfare.

Agreed Arani, but I think most do it simply because it is a boring cheap tactic and they are there to have fun.

Wait wait wait wait wait here…..
Someone said JQ is an active participant in Portal Ball 2012?
JQ has mesmers?
I call BS.
On JQBL there are never mesmers.
I would cybor for a portal from a supply camp back up to a tower.

I really dont get some people. If i see someone beating me, i learn and adapt. The turtle tactic works within the mechanics. Yes its utilizing the limitations on certain skills, but that counts for both healing and dps.

Those of you saying that this is a zerg need to change your understanding of a zerg. A group of 40 coordinated people on TS listening to orders and following them is not a zerg. 100 completely random people, not talking, not knowing what everyone else is doing, but following along like sheep -THATS a zerg.

The turtle was made to break the zergs. But it in itself can be countered, you just have to know how to do it. Same with Portal bombs. I think too many people up this end of the table have got used to just facerolling with 100+, relying on numbers to win.

Playing a game to win is about getting the best you can out of the mechanics laid out before you. I suggest you try it before complaining.