Guild Wars 2

And why force killing majority of enemy invaders and capping major objectives should receive less rewards then you? Because you too lazy to gather and train 20ppl zergbreaker group and make significant contribution into you server victory instead of of pointless roaming and forum whine?

Do the math right. Then post again.

Ot the too lazy topic: lol.
Small groups crashing middlesized zergs contribute pretty much to a server. And they are not to lazy, but ambitioned to have PvP experiences instead of lagging their way clickig #1 and balling through a culled zerg.

Lolno, it’s looks like you shall do the math right. Because you overestimate importance of your job and underestimate importance of zerg job. Zerg make majority of points by capping objectives. Zerg defend server point generators by eliminating enemy zergs and assault groups. And thats why zerg receive biggest reward. Want same reward? Go and do same amount of job, then come here again. Cannot? Stop whining.

First of all, nobody is whining.
Second you have no idea of what you are talking about. If splitting up was rewarded higher than blobbin in an horrendously big zerg, ther overall experience would be better for everyone. Small zergs and small groups. Dont make the mistake of taking the current status of the game as godgiven and not improvable. You better dont call yourself a PvP player, because your focus isnt laid on PvP at all.
Third, fork the darn points, they are what generates blobbing anyway.

Rewards come not from splitting or blobbing. Rewards come from winning. Wipe zerg, defend keep, assault tower – you achieve success, you receive reward. Blob is one of simplest forms of successful warfire. Not most efficient, not fastest, but it works and give reward to participants as result. Same amount of job can be performed with less ppl, see RG, see ZDs, see any successful dedicated WvW guild. Most of them can wipe group 30-70% larger. Best can easily wipe zerg 2-3 times larger. So splitting is rewarded already IF you are good, you teammates good and you know how to do the job.
So if you pretend to be good pvp player – why you still not in organized guild?

I am in a five men oriented guild and you can be sure, that there are little other groups that can compete with us melting bigger numbers in our scale.
You just dont get the point.

The only reason blobbing works is the AoE-Cap. Otherwise 2 Mesmers could down such a blob within two seconds and you wouldn’t even see them coming…

Guys,

This patch.

I have like a bad feeling.

playandchill.3908:

Guys,

This patch.

I have like a bad feeling.

You are not alone.

Zumy.6318:

playandchill.3908:

Guys,

This patch.

I have like a bad feeling.

You are not alone.

You both are not alone. Only a few days before the patch and we know very little.

Adaneshade.2409:

With the currently planned system, if a player is worth 100xp,
-1 person kills them, they get 100 xp
-a 40 man zerg kills him, 40 people get 100xp

Sounds just ludicrous to me.

If 40 people can get enough hits on a single player to all get credit, they should then as that 1 player was skilled enough to have 40 players tag him/her.

I really don’t see an issues with this. Zerg or no zerg, play your way. The best fun in WvW i ever had was a huge 50+ zerg vs zerg battle that lasted 2+ hours. this is large scale pvp, if you want 5 on 5 sPvP is → way.

Matt Witter.6982:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.

And why not “appropriately splitted credit” ?

lol full credit is insane and terribly wrong.

You realize people will probably keep playing WvW exactly like they are? Roamers will still roam because that’s what they like to do, and the commanders that run zergs will run zergs. This is large scale PvP. T1/2/3 may be another story, but if a map you’re on is getting zerged, you can usually just leave. There are even ways that small group play can be used against zergs, like back capping camps on them, hitting yaks, running behind a zerg and hitting stragglers/small groups commanders send, on some towers small groups can destroy groups many, many times their size. look at this video

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/videos/view-2819-gw2-7vs50-for-manvil-rock/

50 is almost definitely an overstatement but all of you who cry for small group play always talk about skill play, well, here is an example of a skilled small group effectively fighting a zerg. Numbers are a huge advantage, no doubt, but they should be and arguing otherwise is just plan silly. WvW is a game where group size confers different advantages and disadvantages. If you want to run small group and you have people to do it, go right ahead. I love playing small group, the fights are intense, coordination with teammates is much easier, and camp flipping is an extremely efficient way to swing score with little resources while also aiding a larger battle. But if you want small groups to be viable against zergs? They are, situationally, because otherwise it would be stupid. So learn when and how you can be effective. It’s hard fighting more people with less for obvious reasons but it can be done if you play better and smarter.

I only cap camps to aggro opponents, I could not care less for any scores.

Zumy.6318:

I only cap camps to aggro opponents, I could not care less for any scores.

Haha same,

Pull Dem Dolly man

With point 1 i feel that it goes against the games philosphy to punish people for randomly joining in and helping. You would certianly see groups/guilds telling people to go away because they are cutting into thier rewards. I think letting AOE hit many more targets than spvp would do the job well enough. I can understand why you cant have that in small maps with capture points, but in wvw its fine.

So, we are 5 days out from the ‘big’ dub-v-dub patch and all we have to go on is this:

Matt Witter.6982:

We will have much more info on World Ranks very soon! In the mean time:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.
2. NPC’s are not worth World Experience
3. I can’t give all the goods away just yet!
4. Yes.

Oh yes, and they are removing culling.
Color me nervous.

Maybe they are busy furiously reversing point number 1….

J heazy.7214:

You would certianly see groups/guilds telling people to go away because they are cutting into thier rewards

We already tell people to leave us alone. Reasons are:
1. They take our boons
2. If they die our enemies will rally

Rednik.3809:

Same amount of job can be performed with less ppl, see RG, see ZDs, see any successful dedicated WvW guild. Most of them can wipe group 30-70% larger. Best can easily wipe zerg 2-3 times larger.

First of all, ZD/OSC/RG/siN/IRON and many many others run with around 30-40 players themselfs… so if they are wiping larger groups then that, means that they’re fighting pugs who blob under a commander or just tag along other groups without any commitment, but it does not change the fact that they are pugs… they’ll not call cc or coordinate burst, nor skills, no regrouping with water fields and blasting or anything.

This is the fact why so many people who enjoy those big scale urge for some sort of GvG or something.

Rednik.3809:

So splitting is rewarded already IF you are good, you teammates good and you know how to do the job.
So if you pretend to be good pvp player – why you still not in organized guild?

So running with other 30-40 people along with you is splitting up? Excuse me when i laugh at this when i see groups like REQ running with 5 to 8 people tops, and many others varying from 5 to 10.
Besides in my opinion good pvp players either quit or actively play spvp (not hotjoins, but tournaments) where the guy actually has to watch which cool downs his enemy used and when its the exact right time to use his burst. When it is the proper time for the bunker to leave the point to help the roamer without losing his own objective and so on, where if he dies in a 1v1 situation, he is down for good for the next 15s plus running time, instead of open WvW where you’ll just rally up from a lowbie your zerg killed along the way that you managed to tag with an AoE…

pedrst.3127:

Besides in my opinion good pvp players either quit or actively play spvp (not hotjoins, but tournaments) where the guy actually has to watch which cool downs his enemy used and when its the exact right time to use his burst. When it is the proper time for the bunker to leave the point to help the roamer without losing his own objective and so on, where if he dies in a 1v1 situation, he is down for good for the next 15s plus running time, instead of open WvW where you’ll just rally up from a lowbie your zerg killed along the way that you managed to tag with an AoE…

True… WvW is kinda dumbed down in ist current state…

I need the roam :-(.

Check out Reijh from Bookah roaming on BM Ranger. You have to love it!

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/videos/view-3158-ranger-vs-the-world/

Now I dont know what to roll… Human for the looks, Asura for pain inverter or Norn for leopard elite… -.-

WTF does “very soon!” mean for this company after the patch?

Very soon = 1 month
soon = 2 months
soonish = 3 months
in the near future = 4-12 months

Lonny.9873:

Very soon = 1 month
soon = 2 months
soonish = 3 months
in the near future = 4-12 months

“We are looking into it” = never thought about that…

Patch is a flop flop floppitty floppiddy flop flop kitten flop kitten flop

I cant wait to have a blog that show me how to carry 5 more supplies and buy stuff i already have with badges.

Plz

pedrst.3127:

Lonny.9873:

Very soon = 1 month
soon = 2 months
soonish = 3 months
in the near future = 4-12 months

“We are looking into it” = never thought about that…

Lawl

J heazy.7214:

You would certianly see groups/guilds telling people to go away because they are cutting into thier rewards.

I don’t think so, the larger groups have the ability to and should be focusing on taking major objectives such as keeps, which will also be worth realm exp.

There’s also something to be said for risk/reward, a 1v1 is a much higher risk than 40v1, why is each member of the 40 rewarded equally to the 1?

Since WvW was intended for groups to take and defend objectives, that’s what they should base the wvw xp off of. This would not only get rid of the argument of how the xp per kill is split, but encourage teamwork and playing for points. The amount of xp you receive should be based on the reward level for your participation in an event.

Playing for points already has a reward system, the scrore, and will also grant world exp.

Its so simple, each person is worth fixed exp. Why are we reinventing the wheel over here.

Why are people expecting Anet to reduce Wxp for larger groups sizes? The design of resources in this game makes it so you are never competing with other players—-you all get the same amount of xp and karma for events, resources from nodes, items from chests.

Yes, it takes more skill to capture an objective with 5 people instead of 40, but wxp isn’t rewarding you for skilled play, it’s just rewarding you for playing. There is nothing designed into WvW that explicitly rewards you for player skill because the game mode isn’t balanced—-that’s what spvp is for.

If they split wxp from a static ‘pool’ like some are suggesting, you’re going to run into situations where 5 people are taking a supply camp, and if others come to help they’ll get yelled at for ‘leeching’ or whatever…which is stupid and bad game design.

Yes, they need to figure out a way to give smaller groups a larger impact in WvW, but manipulating the way a resource is distributed is a bad way to approach it. Large forces (or ‘zergs’) are mostly effective because of small map sizes, the proximity of major objectives, and the lack of objectives that are 5-mannable. Anet needs to add an extra objective specifically for small, roaming groups.

As an example, they could add alters that spawn randomly in 1 of 12-15 different locations on the map, guarded by some npcs so it’s roughly as difficult to destroy as a camp is to take; server that gets the last hit wins ‘favor’ with someone (I don’t know—-grawl?) and if you get enough favor, your server gets the orb of power for that map. The randomized nature of it and the ease of destroying it would give small, roaming groups an advantage over large zergs, and the orb of power reward would make it a very important objective. Obviously just an idea that likely has significant downsides, but just wanted to show that there are other ways Anet can address this problem.

Quix.6475:

Matt Witter.6982:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.

:(

Zerg > all

This was the last bit of hope for WvW, looks like everyone will move to TESO once it launches, they already stated there is a realm rank system like DAOC’s in place for there 3way realm vs realm.

EVERYONE, GET IN THE PILE (and mash #1)

DE TOOK UR JOBS!~

TU KU DUUUUUUUUUUUUUR

Matt Witter.6982:

We will have much more info on World Ranks very soon! In the mean time:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.
2. NPC’s are not worth World Experience
3. I can’t give all the goods away just yet!
4. Yes.

Looks like soon is goong to be the patch day, not before…

loseros.5912:

Looks like soon is goong to be the patch day, not before…

The patch page is up but there is not a lot of info on it, basically the supposed WvW patch consists of:
1. the progression system (which is underwhelming)
2. culling fixed
3. leaderboards that also cover sPvP

When it comes to progression the majority will always go for whatever rewards the most. This will just reinforce zergs (i run in a 30+ group fighting larger numbers not a 5 man havok squad so don’t bother with the find a guild bs) which is disappointing to say the least. I’d rather see people encouraged to split into smaller teams…. I remember hearing Anet devs say they wanted to find a way to split up zergs. Guess what, this was the best way to do it and you kittened it up by giving everyone who gets a tag full rewards.

morrolan.9608:

loseros.5912:

Looks like soon is goong to be the patch day, not before…

The patch page is up but there is not a lot of info on it, basically the supposed WvW patch consists of:
1. the progression system (which is underwhelming)
2. culling fixed
3. leaderboards that also cover sPvP

I’m reasonably happy with this blog post, there’s a bit that we can infer from the picture on the page.

Upgrades are:
+Guard damage
-Damage from Guards
+ damage to mercs and – damage from mercs (presumably hyleks, dredge, etc.)
+Siege Damage
- Damage to Siege
+Supply Carry
“Improve cannon use”
“Improve Ballista skills”

Also we get the relative cost of the skills, Supply being clearly the most desirable and most expensive by far. Also, based on the XP that it takes to get to the next level, it looks like it’s going to be tiered like PvP progression is.

Please add some fancy wvw rank icons next to player names..

mmm, what about zergs? There are zergs and always will be? should system be like that if you have more than 10 players near you you don’t get exp, influnence rank-xp?
You are free to go to sPVP there are no zergs, equal sized teams. Then one is free to complain there that you are always 3v1 or something.

Massive zergs just make people avoid them, go to keeps and keep shooting them with siege – doesn’t progress much of their rank, eh?
This doesn’t promote zerging really at all – Massive zergs do not get much of kills really since people avoid them or then they get wiped by suprise and even when you kill someone most of the poor lads you run aren’t even tagged by you before they die

Ok looks a bit better than i thought as it ll take some times to get max rank.

No words on badges utility tho :/

But well we have our blog

Hi,

just dropping in to say: Thank you, Zumy! Thank you for expressing exactly my thoughts on zerging and relevant issues throughout many threads on this forum!

Best regards

Moon.6371:

Hi,

just dropping in to say: Thank you, Zumy! Thank you for expressing exactly my thoughts on zerging and relevant issues throughout many threads on this forum!

Best regards

Öhm, I live to serve .

Well the abilities doesn’t really interest me much as a soloer other than carry more supplies. It open up the possibility of small gp nija a keep. The whole everyone get full credit thing is bs but what can you do.

Matt Witter.6982:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.

Not unexpected, but entirely disappointing and in my opinion short sighted.

The entire system becomes based on a valueless currency: kill tags. How often do you see people compare their # of kills now? Very seldom as everyone knows the stat is meaningless, because everyone involved in even a minor way gets credit. So now we have an entire rank system that will in turn be as meaningless as it’s currency.

Matt Witter.6982:

We will have much more info on World Ranks very soon! In the mean time:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.
2. NPC’s are not worth World Experience
3. I can’t give all the goods away just yet!
4. Yes.

The number one, is such a kittening bad choice of world Pvp mechanic. Have you really been looking on other games when you created this system? Seriously?
How can you not ser that this sort of system only feeds zergs even more? Unbelievable, i’m honestly quite baffled on what is going on at your office.

Let me ask you a question you will avoid. Why would hardcore pvpers play your game? You say you want to create an e-sport game. But give us crap like this over and over through both spvp and wvw. If you want to create an e sport game. Make sure you actually have pvpers that you listen to.

Next generation mmo? Just another “save the noobs” mmo.

Yes, this is a rage message.

Sansarah.3076:

Matt Witter.6982:

We will have much more info on World Ranks very soon! In the mean time:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.
2. NPC’s are not worth World Experience
3. I can’t give all the goods away just yet!
4. Yes.

The number one, is such a kittening bad choice of world Pvp mechanic. Have you really been looking on other games when you created this system? Seriously?
How can you not ser that this sort of system only feeds zergs even more? Unbelievable, i’m honestly quite baffled on what is going on at your office.

Let me ask you a question you will avoid. Why would hardcore pvpers play your game? You say you want to create an e-sport game. But give us crap like this over and over through both spvp and wvw. If you want to create an e sport game. Make sure you actually have pvpers that you listen to.

Next generation mmo? Just another “save the noobs” mmo.

Yes, this is a rage message.

Very good example of how a company loses credibility, and trust of a certain part of its customers.
I dont want to believe that this kind of choices are done not knowing the impact of them on the actual PvP experience in the game.
If the impact is not known by the developers, they are far from being qualified for this job and should rather develop jumping puzzles and dungeons instead of what they try to call open world PvP, but I call “keep the noobs happy”.
PvP never was and never will be more than a NICHE! Trying to make it too casualfriendly will always end up in constructing a PvE Game with some PvP notations.

If one of my teamleaders at work would make this kind of mistakes over and over, he would most certainly lose his job very fast.

Warhammer died because they tried to combine PvP and PvE equally and this bugged most of the skills, performance and so on.
Now Guildwars2 will die for PvPers, because the heads of development want PvP to be accessible 100% at any time for every PvE focussed gamer and still provide him progression, even though he is not doing one single thing right, that is related with PvP.

PvP games should reward progression in mastering you characters in PvP. Not the time you spend afking ingame.

The logic consecuence out of this is: noobs get less cookies than ambitioned players.
And it is good like that, because this is what brings up the PvP experience. Rivalry, small flames, buttomhurtness, kittening and raging. This is as much part of PvP as building a community identity.

You did this very wrong and you should feel bad about failing at something this simple, to keep everyone happy and not learning at all from all the other games from thelast ten years.

They should’ve split the reward between the groups(Meaning 5man groups…) and give every player in the group the same reward but maybe with a 20% bonus per player in the group.
Means 1 player, worth 1000 wxp, dies to two groups(5*2 People). Group 1 has done 75% of the damage and Group 2 has done 25% of the damage every player in Group 1 would get 300 wxp and every player in Group 2 would get 100 wxp…

Fudge.9527:

Why are people expecting Anet to reduce Wxp for larger groups sizes? The design of resources in this game makes it so you are never competing with other players—-you all get the same amount of xp and karma for events, resources from nodes, items from chests.

Yes, it takes more skill to capture an objective with 5 people instead of 40, but wxp isn’t rewarding you for skilled play, it’s just rewarding you for playing. There is nothing designed into WvW that explicitly rewards you for player skill because the game mode isn’t balanced—-that’s what spvp is for.

If they split wxp from a static ‘pool’ like some are suggesting, you’re going to run into situations where 5 people are taking a supply camp, and if others come to help they’ll get yelled at for ‘leeching’ or whatever…which is stupid and bad game design.

Yes, they need to figure out a way to give smaller groups a larger impact in WvW, but manipulating the way a resource is distributed is a bad way to approach it. Large forces (or ‘zergs’) are mostly effective because of small map sizes, the proximity of major objectives, and the lack of objectives that are 5-mannable. Anet needs to add an extra objective specifically for small, roaming groups.

As an example, they could add alters that spawn randomly in 1 of 12-15 different locations on the map, guarded by some npcs so it’s roughly as difficult to destroy as a camp is to take; server that gets the last hit wins ‘favor’ with someone (I don’t know—-grawl?) and if you get enough favor, your server gets the orb of power for that map. The randomized nature of it and the ease of destroying it would give small, roaming groups an advantage over large zergs, and the orb of power reward would make it a very important objective. Obviously just an idea that likely has significant downsides, but just wanted to show that there are other ways Anet can address this problem.

So the best argument you could come up against static point values is that someone might accuse another of leaching? Stupid accusations, attacks and comments are said in map/team chat every minute of every day, yet someone accusing you of leaching is a massive issue?

The game has no WvW objectives that are not achievable with a five man, none. We do not need some token system to give small groups something to do, we have lots to do. The issue is that there is no incentive not to zerg.

Honestly, at this point who cares about the rank system? It took over 6 months for them to do something for WvW and what we got was a leaderboard that regurgitates the same info they already provide and no one uses. We got a progression system that is based on a meaningless currency, kill tags. We have 8 of the most boring, unimaginative progression abilities every created.

I am not sure what I want to believe more that ANET really just doesn’t care about WvW and has no interest in devoting resources to it, or that they hired the most unimaginative people in the industry.