Guild Wars 2

Marstar, I don’t think anyone is blaming you for your success. Rather, we’re agreeing with you that the TRFs swarmed HoD. Players who wanted an active WvWvW community tend to congregate around like minded players wherever possible.

The transfer lockouts should have prevented the swarm that followed you. The result is that there is a larger serverwide presence of able and willing WvWvW participants.

Now, the standard tactical counter to this would be A) both teams competing against HoD should team up against it. and all lesser servers should congregate their talent with HoDs opposition.

Insofar as neither A nor B appear to be happening (with a few exceptions in what appears to be ET and JQ), things won’t get any more competitive for you guys. In that case, if transfers are fixed, beating ET and JQ from beneath becomes a veritable “challenge mode” for WvWvW for you guys.

Hence the “formal challenge” of this thread.

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

I’ll leave it at this. If you guys don’t WANT to leave, I won’t begrudge you that.

You either have a serious comprehension problem or you aren’t willing to read what is being said.

It’s not that we don’t want to move. The ‘challenge’ you made was frankly short sighted and narrow minded.

If Anet provided the right tools, we would seriously consider moving to an appropriate server (not Kaineng).

To assume that TA ended up on top without any behind the scenes dialog, planning and decision making is ignorance at it’s best and stupidity at worst. To think we haven’t explored or address a server move from the days of 8-hour queues till today’s environment is naive at best and clueless at worst

I’m afraid you’re the one with the comprehension problem. You have to understand that I do not address my responses simply to you, and that other representatives of your alliance have posted comments here.

I’ve heard players say that they have invested in their guilds, and invested in the capital of their “militias.”

Last I checked, citing reasons to stay (and not leave) could be understood as reasons for not wanting to leave. Perhaps you could correct me on that, I’d love to learn.

My “challenge” was neither short-sighted nor narrow-minded. The logic of it stands fully intact. If you are #1 because of your core, and not because of the rest of HoD, then your success can be repeated anywhere else. The most challenging course would involve going to the least successful lowest pop server. If you could raise them to #1, it stands to reason that your core is the primary source of WvWvW success.

Less tossing out arbitrary criticism, more reading comp please.

“If Anet provided the right tools, we would seriously consider moving to an appropriate server (not Kaineng).”

Awesome. Glad we see eye to eye on this. Glad to know that the upper echelons of TA are actually interested in competitive play. Remember, you’re not the only one representing TA on these forums.

Where do you get that I assumed TA ended up on top without any behind the scenes work? You’re the one who stated outright that you didn’t tell people where you were going, and represent a stark contrast to the open recruiting alliances. And yet you then suggest I assume you didn’t work behind the scenes? We KNOW you worked behind the scenes. We KNOW you recruited into the alliance and we KNOW you recruit within guilds of the alliance. That’s been part of the criticism of team-stacking.

Where do I suggest that you haven’t considered a server change? (since i"m fully aware you’ve already swapped from GoM…) I challenged you to actually make the change. That doesn’t mean I fail to acknowledge that you’ve considered it. My comments to other people regarding the inconsistency between prioritizing competition and unwillingness to seek challenge were just that. If people were ruling out the possibility of a server change, I addressed that to their comments (hence my liberal use of the @ sign).

But go on. I’m all ears, teach.

Klick.3651:

LOL formal challenge. Wow this read was nothing short of hilarious. You sir are great. Too bad for you the alliance doesn’t take challenges from some no name guy with a family/friend guild. You can claim anything you want, it’s the internet after all. Fact is we’re winning. End of story. We owe you no explanation or challenge accepting. If you know garbage leaders in mmo’s then you are in garbage guilds. Every leader I’ve encountered in my experiences has been a top tier player. Honestly it just sounds to me like you’re bored and have nothing better to do then watch the alliances success.

How about someone challenges you instead? Get good. Get organized. Compete in Tier 1. Beat TA and HoD, since you clearly think we’re not as good as we say we are.

Lol. I guess the rumors about how seriously you guys take this game are true. No name guy with a family/friend guild, awwwww. Lord knows that automagically makes me terrible, right?

If I insulted your honor by suggesting you guys do something challenging, I want to apologize. Here’s some kisses to make it better (xxxxx). It’s a challenge dude. Nothing more. Take a deep breath, and feel free to disregard it. No need to be so serious.

You’re winning after all! So congrats to you on that. I like winning too. I also like competition. That’s why I look to improve competition, especially when I’m winning “too much.” Guess that’s where we differ. (Glad to know that some of the heads of TA here are making it clear now that they DO want more of a challenge and ARE considering starting somewhere new).

“Every leader I’ve encountered in my experiences has been a top tier player.”

I lol’d. I don’t begrudge you guys your success. Rather, I’m sympathetic to the position of feeling like there’s no real competition out there. Those top-tier leaders you mention probably know what I’m talking about, even if you don’t.

“How about someone challenges you instead?”

Perhaps the great irony here (and my hesitation to reveal my server) is all part of the great secret that I’m, in fact, part of HoD already. (Look at the language of my original post as regards moving to Kaineng with you guys…). Could it be? Have my hints secretly been lies all along?

But then you wouldn’t be able to tell me to cry more and get better, could you? And wouldn’t that just suck…

Here’s what I’ll do, since I’m such a sporting gent. While TA figures out what it’s going to do, I’ll find the likely candidate to challenge HoD’s hegemony, and transfer there to help out.

Any recommendations?

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

Marstar, I don’t think anyone is blaming you for your success. Rather, we’re agreeing with you that the TRFs swarmed HoD. Players who wanted an active WvWvW community tend to congregate around like minded players wherever possible.

The transfer lockouts should have prevented the swarm that followed you. The result is that there is a larger serverwide presence of able and willing WvWvW participants.

Now, the standard tactical counter to this would be A) both teams competing against HoD should team up against it. and all lesser servers should congregate their talent with HoDs opposition.

Insofar as neither A nor B appear to be happening (with a few exceptions in what appears to be ET and JQ), things won’t get any more competitive for you guys. In that case, if transfers are fixed, beating ET and JQ from beneath becomes a veritable “challenge mode” for WvWvW for you guys.

Hence the “formal challenge” of this thread.

Now we are on the same page !!

a) Next week we will be hosting ET and JQ in the Tier of Tears. If you remember back to that fateful Sunday match, in the 24h format, HoD was behind for about 16 hours (being tag teamed) and our NA brethren fought tooth and nail to keep us in the match until Oceanic Prime time. At that point we were able to engineer a strategy to break that loose alliance ET and JQ had in the NA timezone and cause the Oceanic/SEA components of those servers to attack each other. To the point we won.

I expect this next match to be EPIC.

b) Anet has stated their intent that they believe population imbalances will sort themselves out. People will have moved already, and people will continue to move.
We have not ruled out moving, but Kaineng is a definite NO at this point in time.

As this thread was to address that particular challenge, and i’ve gone above and beyond explaining why Kaineng is not a valid destination, there isn’t more i can say on the matter. I clearly won’t be inferring which server would be attractive … TRF’s and all

I totally accept that Kaineng isn’t an option.

I hope you guys get the match you want next week.

And since 2v1 will technically make you the underdog, I’ll wish you guys luck. Give em hell.

People like to look for excuses and blame others. HoD is undefeated so why would they weaken there position to make others feel better. Free transfers are still up & we could use more Oceanics & some Europeans on ET (and SBI and JQ would probably love more too) & I’m sure SoS would love some more NA players.

Why not move to one of the top tier servers and take the fight to HoD rather than expecting them to weaken there position.

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

I’m afraid you’re the one with the comprehension problem. You have to understand that I do not address my responses simply to you, and that other representatives of your alliance have posted comments here.

So when we all say NO to your Kaineng challenge … please explain to me how the comprehension problem is not your own.

Don’t know what part of the World you are from, but in all 45 countries of the world i’ve travelled thus far … No means No.

I’d love to learn.

My “challenge” was neither short-sighted nor narrow-minded. The logic of it stands fully intact. If you are #1 because of your core, and not because of the rest of HoD, then your success can be repeated anywhere else. The most challenging course would involve going to the least successful lowest pop server. If you could raise them to #1, it stands to reason that your core is the primary source of WvWvW success.

Again you fail to comprehend.

You don’t got from Bottom to Top in 1 week. It would require 4-6 weeks of twiddling our thumbs. Is that fun? Is that challenging? Which member let alone guild let alone alliance would be stupid enough to do that?

Ascension Alliance and RUIN bit that bullet during the 24h matches, to have zero challenge for 7 days. When they got to the top Tier they lost the interest of a large portion of their members. We are talking 4-6 weeks now.

Because you are a bit slow i’ll repeat it again. 4-6 weeks of PvDooring.

People are quitting because competition in the Top Tier is inadiquate.

The founding member of Titan Alliance has already chosen to retire from the game rather than take up your dim-witted challenge.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/69134-condemned-leaves-gw2/

Less tossing out arbitrary criticism, more reading comp please.

“If Anet provided the right tools, we would seriously consider moving to an appropriate server (not Kaineng).”

Awesome. Glad we see eye to eye on this. Glad to know that the upper echelons of TA are actually interested in competitive play. Remember, your not the only one representing TA on these forums.

Yet i am the Titan Alliance representative that said ‘No’ to your challenge. Good luck finding one that says yes.

Where do you get that I assumed TA ended up on top without any behind the scenes work? You’re the one who stated outright that you didn’t tell people where you were going, and represent a stark contrast to the open recruiting alliances. And yet you then suggest I assume you didn’t work behind the scenes? We KNOW you worked behind the scenes. We KNOW you recruited into the alliance and we KNOW you recruit within guilds of the alliance.

Did you or did you not challenge us to become #1 on our own, without HoD’s militia?

Did we or did we not become #1 under that very scenario when we picked HoD unbeknown to any1 else?

Been there done that.

Do i need to remind you of your opening comment

“Plus, it will be fun to watch the bandwagon turn Kaineng into a max pop server during the climb.

Hell, if you actually do this, I’ll come join you."

That might be fun for you, but you’re the very Tailcoat Riding Freeloader we would want to avoid.

At some point you will say that “You wouldn’t have gotten past Tier 2, without us PuGs” … hence your challenge of doing it ourselves becomes moot.

That’s been part of the criticism of team-stacking.

By this stage you can clearly see i have no faith in your ability to understand basic WvWvW mechanics. We aren’t the only alliance. We have achieved … others have not. Pure and simple.

Where do I suggest that you haven’t considered a server change? (since i"m fully aware you’ve already swapped from GoM…)

By the fact we haven’t changed (again)? I mean why didn’t i think of Kaineng? o.O

Part 2 -

I challenged you to actually make the change.

Like talking to a brick wall …

We did change from GoM to HoD. What we tried to avoid by staying on GoM followed us to HoD.

“Plus, it will be fun to watch the bandwagon turn Kaineng into a max pop server during the climb.

Hell, if you actually do this, I’ll come join you."

No we don’t want to play that broken record again on Kaineng.

That doesn’t mean I fail to acknowledge that you’ve considered it. My comments to other people regarding the inconsistency between prioritizing competition and unwillingness to seek challenge were just that.

There is no competition to be had on Kaineng. There is no inconstancy here, just lack of comprehension.

But go on. I’m all ears, teach.

A deaf man is all ears. You may hear what is being said but you need to start listening.

No. We do not share your view that moving to Kaineng will provide a challenge. No we do not want another round of Tailcoat Riding Freeloaders to follow us again … particularly ones like yourself :P

Challenge rejected.

Still wondering why I should be impressed with TA with what they have done in GW2….

There needs to be a fundemental alteration of perspective here regarding what TA has to prove imo. Whether you agree with it or not it’s clear that TA collectively does not feel it has to prove anything. The results are speaking for themselves and actions speak louder than words… on a forum.

Suggestions on how TA should challenge itself and prove it’s worth are really counter productive. Especially from an outside perspective and by someone who admittedly has not faced TA in the field. If anyone feels that TA’s merits come up short in the grand scheme of things or that they aren’t the reason why HoD is dominating atm then they should get organised and try to disprove TA not the other way round.

(couldnt quote post)
""Where are the people supposed to come from then?"

Merge Guilds that are WvW-centric to reach critical mass of organisation and efficiency like what commonly happened when guilds became too small to tackle end-game content in every game since 1990?
Encourage those that have left to come back? Look at a PR campaign?

“Should we go to other servers and try to steal their guilds? That just ruins other servers that are already having their own problems.”

Come steal Guilds off HoD? We have too many, and with the right proposal, maybe they will be up for the challenge?""
…
…
…
…
The Brewery is a small guild on SBI looking to recruit more active WvWvW players, fancy coming over and helping us build a bigger better guild for open W3 war-fare?

well it was worth a try right

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

I totally accept that Kaineng isn’t an option.

I hope you guys get the match you want next week.

And since 2v1 will technically make you the underdog, I’ll wish you guys luck. Give em hell.

on behalf of Marstar (he probably missed this post before his 2 replies after) and TA, thank you for your understanding.

:)

Karicus.8356:

(couldnt quote post)
""Where are the people supposed to come from then?"

Merge Guilds that are WvW-centric to reach critical mass of organisation and efficiency like what commonly happened when guilds became too small to tackle end-game content in every game since 1990?
Encourage those that have left to come back? Look at a PR campaign?

“Should we go to other servers and try to steal their guilds? That just ruins other servers that are already having their own problems.”

Come steal Guilds off HoD? We have too many, and with the right proposal, maybe they will be up for the challenge?""

The Brewery is a small guild on SBI looking to recruit more active WvWvW players, fancy coming over and helping us build a bigger better guide for open W3 war-fare?

well it was worth a try right

we would really like you to take xRx off our hands. They are an awesome guild with 3 commanders that have really good knowledge of the game and leadership.

@insignia – righto… are they housebroken?

wait a min…

am i getting a fair deal here?

That’s one hell of a story. I’ve been on both sides of these kind of dominating forces in various games. I know it’s fun to win, but after so much it’s even more fun to actually lose. If nothing changes however it just gets stale and people just end up quitting.

Interesting as the story is though, my perspective comes mainly from how things seem to have settled. I didn’t come into GW2 knowing anything about any of the servers or alliances. I only know what I’ve experienced so far(and I’ve played quite a bit) and TA quite obviously outperforms any of the other alliances. I care very very little for SBI’s performance overall, as I did not pick this server myself. I just shoot things. I’d feel the same way if I played on the sixth to last place server.

It’s not just TA though. It’s all these pre-formed alliances that rolled together and stuck together that cause so much disparity among servers. In a perfect world, none of these matches should be so imbalanced. Imagine if say, TA was never formed, and 4 groups of 4 guilds were on some of the currently mid-ranked servers. You’d have a lot more top competitors, and servers would rotate a lot more. People wouldn’t have a “the server” to flock to if they wanted to win. You’d face different opponents every week and the best guilds would have some serious competition.

Obviously it’ll probably never work out so pretty though. It’s too far down the road and suddenly breaking up a community into chunks isn’t something to do on a whim or because someone else thinks it’s “unfair”.

Basically if TA wanted to move they would have to do it piecemeal such that the server they are moving to starts winning and eventually makes it to T1, while not being too easy and a boring citadel campfest.

The only 2 servers with enough room for the entire TA alliance without hitting queues are Kaineng and Devona’s Rest. But because of aformentioned problems of jumping everyone all at once and risking bandwagoners following, it becomes a nonstarter.

It makes sense.

It isnt TA’s fault that their server is stuck with such huge queues. and it isnt TA that should be ‘punished’ and forced to move.

It should be all those bandwagoners that jumped to HoD just because it was winning. They should go back to their homes or DR or Kaineng.

I’m a little like Shortcake. Our guild came from warhammer online and were part of a much larger, successful alliance there. During beta just 2 of us played and we randomly chose Yak’s Bend, a drop of the hat. we had no information on what guilds or alliances were good we were just testing the waters of this much anticipated game.

On release we decided to change to SBI and the reason? one of the simplest ever, we had a couple of friends that were going there. So with, by then, a handful of people from beta we toddled off to SBI, then the rest of our guild came over from Warhammer and some are still trickling over.

None of us fight for the overall score, yes its nice to watch and be proud but ultimately we know we didnt have contribution for every single point on that board so how can we claim any of them as ‘our’ success?

We fight as friends and long term guild mates for the fun and entertainment regardless of what the overall points show. If we decide we have had enough of W3 for a day or two, we’ll group up and do some dungi’s or help each other craft and complete maps. YES W3 is our main passion and we enjoy being orgonised and working with other organised people/ guilds but as shortcake says “we just shoot stuff” and have a kitten fine time doing so

I understand the mechanics of alliances and how they help to build a great server and they are a hell of a lot of fun but at the end of the day all this politics and anger in a computer game is, well, it goes against the premise. Its supposed to be fun.

Ill agree HoD are a well organised server mainly because of TA, glory hunters will follow and boast of the deeds of others, riding on the backs of giants but what does it matter? If (theoretically speaking ) ANet pulled the plug on GW2 tomorrow, what’s it all for? Id rather remember having a lot of fun in a game with friends, new and old rather than remembering all the politics and forum bashing.

Call me a ‘casual’ and laugh if you want. Even tho I do tend to play one hell of a lot of hours but id rather be a ‘casual’ than an arrogant, egotistical elitest (not calling anyone in particular a elitiest you understand).

So TA got together and formed a well organised alliance, their leader has raised some good points. Others from TA will try to flame and boast as I have seen but that’s all it is, he’s doing what he feels is best for his alliance and overall fun for his players. Its what they do.

On the flip side I see other people’s frustrations and points. This argument will go on and on and nameless people sitting behind the safety of a computer monitor will happily shout and rage at each other till the end of time but who are they to say how others should enjoy their experience?

I’m trying to sit on the fence here as i have read the whole thread and see many of both sides and as someone on SBI who is often beating against HoD’s walls only to be eating dirt for my efforts, this will always be the nature of PvP… your fun will be at the expense of someone’s anguish.

My previous post about coming to join the brewery was a little jestfull but there may be some reasoning behind it. Theoretically speaking of course. TA can only BE the best when they have Beaten the best. Seeing as they are the best who have they to fight but themselves? Think about that a second.

Some of TA transfer off of HoD onto a server that faces HoD..TA vs TA….

this is NOT a challenge or a request. After reading this thread, I understand the logistics of such an undertaking not to mention the pop issues, trying to get all people onto the ‘new’ server and with accusations of spying etc… all those aside, that is the only way TA or other alliances / guilds from HoD will find the challenge. I dont think it a bad idea.. but the logistics dont tend to lend them selves to it, unfortunately.

Also, i dont think HoD or TA have anything to proove. All this talk about “proove your the best” I dont think they, as a whole, have to. Everyone else seems to think they some how do.

Im not sucking up to HoD or to TA, i have often said I dont believe them as good as people claim they are, relying on non prime timers to cap while the prime timers are mere caretakers but i WILL support their right to play when, how and where they wish just as I would for anyone.

“So when we all say NO to your Kaineng challenge … please explain to me how the comprehension problem is not your own.

Don’t know what part of the World you are from, but in all 45 countries of the world i’ve travelled thus far … No means No."

What the hell are you talking about? I’m seriously questioning your literacy now. You quoted me saying “If you don’t WANT to leave” and then said, “it’s not that we don’t want to leave.” I then pointed out that players specifically mentioned investment in guild and local relations as reasons why they don’t want to leave HoD.

And then you randomly change the question from “Do we want to leave” to “Do we accept your challenge?”

Not only do you fail to read what I’VE written, you’re failing to comprehend what YOU’VE written. Just stop. I already made my peace.

“Again you fail to comprehend…You don’t got from Bottom to Top in 1 week. It would require 4-6 weeks of twiddling our thumbs. Is that fun? Is that challenging? Which member let alone guild let alone alliance would be stupid enough to do that?”

I completely understand that pubstomping gets boring. I keep repeating that. Instead of breaking up your alliance, you have members who would rather quit? That’s fascinating.

The idea is that leaving HoD would cost you some quality players. Last I checked, the consensus was that you guys liked your “militias.” Maybe that was incorrect. The idea is that it may not be the PvDoor adventure you expect it to be. Only one way to find out. And here’s the thing. If 4 weeks of PvDooring is completely intolerable, you better pray that everyone else figures out how to play, or you should start looking for a new game.

“People are quitting because competition in the Top Tier is inadiquate.”

So let me get this straight. Your combined group of recruited guilds is so good that you can’t find a decent match. But you’d rather quit than swap servers and try to beat your own guys? Fascinating. Makes people start to question whether or not you’re really in it for the challenge after all…

“Yet i am the Titan Alliance representative that said ‘No’ to your challenge. Good luck finding one that says yes.”

You’re out of your mind. My point wasn’t to demand that you move to Kaineng. I was simply interested in seeing whether or not you guys cared enough about competitive play to entertain leaving HoD and starting anew somewhere else to bolster their rating until you reached #1 again. So when you said, “we would seriously consider moving,” I considered us to understand one another over the whole “leave to generate a challenge” point, Kaineng or otherwise.

You’re inventing an argument wherein I say “GO TO KAINENG” and you say “NO” and I somehow interpret that as a “Yes, we said we’ll accept your challenge.”

Seriously. Learn. To. Read.

“Did you or did you not challenge us to become #1 on our own, without HoD’s militia… Did we or did we not become #1 under that very scenario when we picked HoD unbeknown to any1 else?”

Winning your early matches is laudable. The idea is that the posted rankings materially affected the way that forces aggregated. It’s not a question of could you when without HoD at the start, it’s whether or not you could win without them now that the active players have congregated there and consolidated an advantage. (Perhaps this is just beyond you…

“That might be fun for you, but you’re the very Tailcoat Riding Freeloader we would want to avoid… At some point you will say that “You wouldn’t have gotten past Tier 2, without us PuGs” … hence your challenge of doing it ourselves becomes moot."

Cute troll. I’m happy winning as much WvWvW as I do. Let’s not forget, it’s entirely possible I’m on HoD with you guys, remember? The idea was that I’m an active WvWvW player and one who has been successful. If I thought you were taking a risk to start over on a low pop server, I’d chip in to help you guys out. You know, spirit of cooperation. The whole point is that it would be fun because I’d expect you to STRUGGLE, not because I’d expect you to clown on everyone. Remember, in reality, I seek out competition, I don’t shy away from it. (You know… what you profess to do as well). Stands to reason we’d be natural allies… odd.

“By this stage you can clearly see i have no faith in your ability to understand basic WvWvW mechanics.”

By this stage you can clearly see I have no faith in your ability to understand the English language (maybe it’s those 45 countries you’ve been too, I have to imagine it gets hard keeping track of all those languages, you impressive man you). You actively sought out guilds, behind the scene, which possessed hardcore players, and combined them into an alliance. Or did you all magically wake up one morning in an immaculately conceived alliance?

Whether or not other alliances failed does not in any way materially alter the fact that you stacked active, talented players.

“By the fact we haven’t changed (again)? I mean why didn’t i think of Kaineng? o.O”

Alright, here’s how this works. If your mom comes into your bedroom at night and tells you that you should do your homework, do you think, “Mom clearly assumes I haven’t considered doing my homework, or she wouldn’t have told me to do it!”. No, you realize she’s just telling you to do your homework. I challenged you to xfer to Kaineng and wreak havoc. That doesn’t presume the idea never entered your head, it just challenges you to do it.

Seriously dude, it’s not even worth fighting over. You’re clearly reading something quite different from what’s actually on this page here. I thought we had come to some sort of understanding, only for you to completely flip over a fight we weren’t even having. If you wanna take shots at some other dude’s ability to comprehend what he reads, you should either invest in some reading comp lessons of your own, or a new pair of spectacles, because you’re just making yourself look silly.

This is just degenerating into flaming. If you can’t see that we reached some agreement and that this should have been settled already, I’ll just do us all a favor and have the thread deleted.

Titan alliance is already starting to jump ship on game. Condemned left the game as of yesterday they made their official announcement. It is only a matter of time before TA falls apart. Who can blame them, no fun winning always with no real challenge, also guilds like that attract beta invitations, who is to say Blade and Soul is not snagging them away to test the pvp system for NC West.

TA is much more than Condemned. 1 guild leaving changes nothing.

^ true… In a years time, the server pops would of balanced out, people left, people joined, large servers alliances would of disbanded because of differing views of what is good for their players.

we forget, the game is still young and takes a while to settle out, who know, in 12 months time HoD may be struggling against low tier servers and all this would of been forgotten.

Things will settle out. Right now, its all new and there is an addiction to seeing your server have the highest points but that will grow old and people will be more interested in being on the field rather than merely watching it.

I suggest giving it time, bite the bullet and in afew months, things may look very different.

Seriously dude, it’s not even worth fighting over.

Yet clearly you keep coming back for more? We can quote tree forever, but i’ve chosen to not quote the rest of your counters.

You’re clearly reading something quite different from what’s actually on this page here. I thought we had come to some sort of understanding, only for you to completely flip over a fight we weren’t even having.

You seem to be the only person who hasn’t fully grasped the meat of the matter.
We agreed on some things and we disagreed on some things … foreign concept?

If you wanna take shots at some other dude’s ability to comprehend what he reads, you should either invest in some reading comp lessons of your own, or a new pair of spectacles, because you’re just making yourself look silly.

So your argument here is the standard 5yr old comeback “No you are !!”

This is just degenerating into flaming. If you can’t see that we reached some agreement and that this should have been settled already, I’ll just do us all a favor and have the thread deleted.

Yes we agree, and we agree to disagree. Make a new post with a challenge to move to a T3 server … or better yet … make a post asking which T2 (not ET/JQ)/T3/T4 server would welcome TA and work with us to push to the top.

Thank-you

Oops, missed a spot.

“Like talking to a brick wall …
We did change from GoM to HoD. What we tried to avoid by staying on GoM followed us to HoD.”

This is exactly the point I’m making, only my point exceeds just GoM and includes all the active players that congregated on HoD with you. The rankings caused things to shuffle given the free server transfers. If you could move to Kaineng in isolation, this would be a challenge. Hence my offering it up as such.

“There is no competition to be had on Kaineng. There is no inconstancy here, just lack of comprehension.”

You’re pretty dense, darling. The point is that Kaineng is a low population server which means you lose A) your HoD militia and any population advantage. This makes the baseline more difficult. So yes, you are exhibiting a lack of comprehension as you continue failing to accept this.

“A deaf man is all ears. You may hear what is being said but you need to start listening.”

How generous of you to cast your pearls of wisdom before such swine… /s

“No. We do not share your view that moving to Kaineng will provide a challenge.”

This isn’t subjective, sweetheart. Your task will be objectively more difficult with Kaineng behind you instead of HoD. This is, in fact, one of those great moments where someone is right, and then there’s you.

“No we do not want another round of Tailcoat Riding Freeloaders to follow us again … particularly ones like yourself :P
Challenge rejected.”

Awwww, now you’re gonna make me feel bad about myself. I think the challenge rejection goes without saying. It’s probably not going to be too appealing to someone who fundamentally fails to understand its appeal.

I’ll amend my earlier statement wishing you luck next week vs. your WvWvW opponents.

I’ll instead wish you luck finding enough excitement to keep you from quitting due to boredom.

Cheers.

“Yet clearly you keep coming back for more? We can quote tree forever, but i’ve chosen to not quote the rest of your counters.”

What can I say, I don’t like being fundamentally misunderstood. =)

“You seem to be the only person who hasn’t fully grasped the meat of the matter.
We agreed on some things and we disagreed on some things … foreign concept?”

You say that, but there are differences of opinion, and then there’s A) failing to understand what the other person is actually writing, and being objectively wrong.

“So your argument here is the standard 5yr old comeback ‘No you are !!’”

Lol. Well, sometimes one must channel a 5 year old if he’s to communicate on a level appropriate for his audience.

“Yes we agree, and we agree to disagree…Thank-you”

Right back at ya.

By the way, are you guys recruiting?

North American World Rankings

Tear of Tears

2143.02 Henge of Denravi
2047.43 Stormbluff Isle
2044.01 Jade Quarry

T2

1987.6 Eredon Terrace
1778.2 Isle of Janthir
1736.46 Crystal Desert

T3

1727.17 Dragonbrand
1693.44 Blackgate
1598.21 Fort Aspenwood

T4

1595.57 Sea of Sorrows
1570.33 Tarnished Coast
1533.33 Gate of Madness

T5

1529.41 Yak’s Bend
1447.74 Maguuma
1432.65 Ehmry Bay

1388.46 Sorrow’s Furnace
1371.21 Sanctum of Rall
1367.18 Darkhaven

T6

1334.71 Northern Shiverpeaks
1169.81 Anvil Rock
1125.78 Borlis Pass

T7

1022.02 Ferguson’s Crossing
723.686 Devona’s Rest
615.89 Kaineng

I amend my calculation. You cannot climb 1 tier per week. If Titan Alliance dominated T1 without the Tailcoat Riding Freeloaders … then clearly there is no challenge or fun to be had ruining the Week we get matched up to the bottom Tiers.

Fundamentally you lack the understanding that if people are quitting one month in while fighting in the Tier of Tears, 2 months of even less competition from your suggestion does not equal " finding enough excitement to keep you from quitting due to boredom. "

Lol. Okay, let’s keep this simple.

1. Hoping you find enough excitement isn’t relegated to “you should xfer to Kaineng lol.” It was an honest appeal that you find something (Jumping puzzles, PvE, alts, staring at shirtless Norn males) to sustain your interest. It was an honest comment. I hope you find something exciting to keep your interest.

2. “Less competition from your suggestion.” There he goes again… There’s a chance it won’t even be less competition week 1. But if you have to consign yourselves to a few weeks of stomping, it really won’t be too different than what appears to be happening in the “Tier of Tiers.” But we’ve agreed on this already. You don’t have to go to Kaineng if you want to test TA with a different militia. Then again, if you think that HoD is Tier 3 PuGs without you, then why would you migrate to another set of Tier 3 PuGs? Why not aim lower

I’ll try to break this down for the last time.

HoD = #1
HoD =/= TA

HoD vs. FC and DR would be #1 vs two T7 teams.
TA+K vs. FC and DR… who knows?

TA+Kaineng < TA+HoD

Question is what the magnitude is of that inequality. Who knows, even that first week might be more fun. I mean, think of all the militia training you’ll get to do!

In all seriousness, all this talk of Kaineng combined with the awesome Kaineng ambassadors makes ME want to xfer there tonight.

To put it in term you might understand (well hopefully you understand a traditional Football league like the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundasliga etc) :

You are asking the Starting 11 Players of a team like Man United, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or Juventus to go and play in the 7th division.

Without the facilities, trainers, staff, supporters and all the things that make the Club what it is.

Clearly no team below those already in the 1st and 2nd division will even come close to challenging them.

It will take those players 7 years of coming 1st to promote all the way up to the Top.

Fun?

“TA+K vs. FC and DR… who knows?”
Wow, I think you are severly underestimating TA. The pressence of their non-NA guilds alone would be enough to carry them to at least T3, if not T2. So yeah, this might be a challenging project for them in the end, once they got back to T2…but that will be after at least 6 weeks of boredom (the most point jump I’ve seen so far is +100, but it is likely if the underdog wins overwhelmingly, they will can gain 150-200 points per match)

Okay…. and there we have it. Apparently the militias aren’t that great after all.

My understanding was more along the lines of the following.

I was asking 6 of the starting 11 to play in the 7th division without all those extra trappings you cite. It’s entirely possible that they’ll play 8/9 vs. 11, especially as they move up divisions.

But playing men down in a match where numbers mean a bit more than football, would constitute higher difficulty, would it not? (Progressively more as you moved up).

As for 7 years…. come on.

And what’s the alternative? “Gee, I hope Chelsea gets better this year, otherwise I should probably retire…”

Be Beckham. Play MLS.

(okay, typing that made me vomit a little, but still…)

Note: I’m fully aware that for David Beckham, playing in the MLS and being retired are practically the same thing.

Ananda.8241:

“TA+K vs. FC and DR… who knows?”
Wow, I think you are severly underestimating TA. The pressence of their non-NA guilds alone would be enough to carry them to at least T3, if not T2. So yeah, this might be a challenging project for them in the end, once they got back to T2…but that will be after at least 6 weeks of boredom (the most point jump I’ve seen so far is +100, but it is likely if the underdog wins overwhelmingly, they will can gain 150-200 points per match)

My who knows wasn’t to suggest that they’d become a Tier 7 group. It was to suggest exactly what it says, “Who knows?” In all likelihood, dominant night-capping (when everyone is comparatively low pop) is enough to launch you into the top 3 tiers, I’ll grant. But maybe I’m wrong. At this point it’s all conjecture. The real question would be the population difference, as zerging is all-too-viable a strat in WvWvW.

I think I recall someone saying their server jumped 150 after a convincing underdog win, but I won’t pretend to be an expert on the point system.

TA should stay on HoD if they move then what is server pride?

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

Then again, if you think that HoD is Tier 3 PuGs without you, then why would you migrate to another set of Tier 3 PuGs?

I don’t think HoD are T3 pugs. Based on the queues and performance, HoD without TA should challenge still for a T1 spot but more likely than not rotate into T2.

TA is no more!!! Now everyone can enjoy WvW. Farewell..

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

Okay…. and there we have it. Apparently the militias aren’t that great after all.

My understanding was more along the lines of the following.

I was asking 6 of the starting 11 to play in the 7th division without all those extra trappings you cite. It’s entirely possible that they’ll play 8/9 vs. 11, especially as they move up divisions.

But playing men down in a match where numbers mean a bit more than football, would constitute higher difficulty, would it not? (Progressively more as you moved up).

As for 7 years…. come on.

And what’s the alternative? “Gee, I hope Chelsea gets better this year, otherwise I should probably retire…”

Be Beckham. Play MLS.

(okay, typing that made me vomit a little, but still…)

Note: I’m fully aware that for David Beckham, playing in the MLS and being retired are practically the same thing.

Good to see we are back to a point where we can both make sense of each other.

On HoD it is indeed 4-5 TA + 6-7 Militia under your understanding, but im going with the analogy that the Militia provide the glue that makes the Champion Club. Players come and go, but HoD now has the framework and reputation to sustain like beyond TA (assuming we were to leave).

So to my analogy, it’s 11 + their original 5 players on the bench. Accounting for injuries etc, the best 11 are not ‘always’ be on the field.

7 years = seven seasons. In GW2 terms for promotion demotion it’s 1 week per season. Not factoring in they could move to 2 week matches.

Any way you look at it … playing for weeks/months in an inferior competition when you are a Beckham is retiring from ‘Competitive’ Football … you are going to play for other reasons.

Hence we come back to the original argument. The MLS or Australian A league where you see players like Beckham, Del Piero are not the sort of competitions TA are entertaining. We aren’t looking for retirement homes :P

Since you do understand the EPL, i can make a better analogy. We would rather move to a big club like Blackburn and claw our way back into the Premier League like Newcastle did last year, and challenge for a Champions League Spot immediately. Playing for Bristol Rovers in League 2.

Most of our players would have retired b4 we even got to the Championship :P

That’s an eminently fair point. Why didn’t we just start with the football metaphors… Let this be a lesson.

My line of reasoning was that playing “in retirement” with the MLS might not be exciting if Becks were to dominate the MLS competition, but that it would be even MORE rewarding if the Galaxy could claw there way up to the level of the English Premier. In other words, is it more exciting to beat Everton when you’re Man U., or when you’re the LA Galaxy.

To borrow from an inferior sport, it’s a reverse Lebron. Which championship is more meaningful, the one with Miami, or the one with Cleveland (that he never got).

Regardless, there’s a very significant likelihood that the interim period would suck. It might not, but it probably will.

Oh well. Here’s to hoping you guys get some good games soon. And if you do leave, even better luck then.

As a peace offering, I’ll let you know the server that I play on. Granted, I just transferred there about 5 minutes ago, and I’m therefore unguilded for the moment.

Or rather, I’ll give you one guess.

=)

Marstar makes me confused.

championship manager. get with it.

SherlockBrolmes.4725:

That’s an eminently fair point. Why didn’t we just start with the football metaphors… Let this be a lesson.

Well I’m Australian/European and knowing you were American … and most of your sports don’t have a promotion/relegation system at the top end … i wasn’t sure you would get it :P

If one player moves to LA Galaxy (Beckham), one moves to NY RedBull (T.Henry) then the competition isn’t unbalanced. If LA picked up Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Giggs and Drogba? :P

then LA would be the preferred retirement home of EPL stars.

I am sure you all heard but, Mission Accomplished (again). GG’s,. it was fun while it lasted. Now if only they could make WvW more rewarding and meaningful…..

ritsuko.2863:

Marstar makes me confused.

Marstar’s lack of knowledge about AA makes me cry little kitten tears..

I suppose it helps us in the end however., feeding misinformation around.

Aww keep the original post…..

Freelancer.4526:

ritsuko.2863:

Marstar makes me confused.

Marstar’s lack of knowledge about AA makes me cry little kitten tears..

I suppose it helps us in the end however., feeding misinformation around.

The issues with AA are plain to see, for anyone with insight:

- Over-focus on planning aspects that were ultimately of no relevance to your competitive capability (see: leaked PR spreadsheets), but raised the stature of AA far too early – practicallly ensuring NSP was going to overloaded at launch. The resulting queue time issues led to a decision to server transfer that significantly fragmented and weakened AA as a rival;

- Inability to control internal drama and lack of ethics re: use of spies that cost you important guilds in key EU timezones around launch (see: leaked leaving posts on AA forums); and

- Unsuccessful assessment of the culture and capabilites of the Oceanic/Asian gaming regions and associated inability to ensure adequate particpation levels from a starting roster size far larger than TA.

We built an alliance and implemented an approach that was specifically intended to compete with the few hardcore alliances that were being promoted pre-launch, in the top tier of the game. What AA had on paper was ostensibly a very powerful force, with extensive 24/7 coverage.

However – your resulting failure to deliver on this potential, and subsequent critical missteps that have compounded the issues, are at the root of the problems with the top tier of WvW today.

Edit: to focus the key points.

BattleFox.1263:

Freelancer.4526:

ritsuko.2863:

Marstar makes me confused.

Marstar’s lack of knowledge about AA makes me cry little kitten tears..

I suppose it helps us in the end however., feeding misinformation around.

The issues with AA are plain to see, for anyone with insight:

- Over-focus on planning aspects that were ultimately of no relevance to your competitive capability (see: leaked PR spreadsheets), but raised the stature of AA far too early – practicallly ensuring NSP was going to overloaded at launch. The resulting queue time issues led to a decision to server transfer that significantly fragmented and weakened AA as a rival;

- Inability to control internal drama and lack of ethics re: use of spies that cost you important guilds in key EU timezones around launch (see: leaked leaving posts on AA forums); and

- Unsuccessful assessment of the culture and capabilites of the Oceanic/Asian gaming regions and associated inability to ensure adequate particpation levels from a starting roster size far larger than TA.

We built an alliance and implemented an approach that was specifically intended to compete with the few hardcore alliances that were being promoted pre-launch, in the top tier of the game. What AA had on paper was ostensibly a very powerful force, with extensive 24/7 coverage.

However – your resulting failure to deliver on this potential, and subsequent critical missteps that have compounded the issues, are at the root of the problems with the top tier of WvW today.

Edit: to focus the key points.

wait, are people still giving TA sole credit for HoD success when they dont even cover 15% of the total players online at any given time?

Without a solid backbone, you can pile on as much flesh on as you like, you’re still going nowhere.

they give directions