Guild Wars 2

sazaw.1347:

@Frvwfr.4307
That’s not entirely true. For example, nacro staff skill 2 can heal also ele water atonement skill 4 and 5 if i’m not wrong. I’m sure other class will have those king of skill too. We have more damage then healing because we favor damage over healing. Healing output can also increase to the same level with damage by using trait line and healing power+ attribute if we desire to.

That is correct, but that is only if you are using that weapon, which already has 2, or more skills devoted to healing and not damage. What is wrong with someone being suited to healing? How is this any different than a thief that is specced to stay stealthed as long as possible? It is not broken, as it CAN be defeated. It is just a tactic that people use.
Tactics are not broken.
The way people respond to them are.

Healing an area should not be limited to the exact same number of people that 3 of the enemies skills hit.

(as a reference, those 3 instances you point out, while I can easily name about 7 weapon sets for different professions that have more than 2 AoE skills.)

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Yes now unskilled players cant turtle.

Hahaha, you really think a little bit more healing is the reason they’re all Zerging together?

I ran this set of Traits too even while SOLOING in PVE. Trust me, it didn’t decide every fight. And I’m talking about nearby NPC’s that are smarter and more durable than your average zerg baddy

Tolgon.9842:

vespers.1759:

does this mean guardian f2 is now ruined?

Yeah, I agree with the fields being nerfed but why nerf guardian’s class mechanic

Because, the class was never actually meant to be a healing class. Merely a stand there and look pretty class

Just like mesmers

You have 1 useful skill, and the rest need to be removed

(I.E. Mesmer portal, and guardian retaliation)

There is no healing class. There are no uber efficient healing skills (including water ele). Anet made this choice since the beginning – everyone has to rely on his own mitigating skills – like rolling, and standing out of damage. They want a PvP that’s action based not skill based. You want games where PvP is based on using the right skill rotation and maybe the best items ? there are plenty but not this one.

How do you imagine that putting 40 players in the same spot in space is something “smart” and not an engine abuse ? Stacking 40 people in the same point is a “valid tactic” ? Just because ANet can’t switch collision detection (would be a mess) it does not mean they wanted people to do this. Just like the fact that they cannot switch to server side position handling (to avoid lag and rubberbanding) – doesn’t mean you are allowed to teleport.

The turtle is a symbol for a specific sort of gameplay: numbers + specific skill rotation + abuse of skill limitations/flaws. This is hopefully not the sort of gameplay they want on GW2.

earendil.1290:

There is no healing class. There are no uber efficient healing skills (including water ele). Anet made this choice since the beginning – everyone has to rely on his own mitigating skills – like rolling, and standing out of damage. They want a PvP that’s action based not skill based. You want games where PvP is based on using the right skill rotation and maybe the best items ? there are plenty but not this one.

How do you imagine that putting 40 players in the same spot in space is something “smart” and not an engine abuse ? Stacking 40 people in the same point is a “valid tactic” ? Just because ANet can’t switch collision detection (would be a mess) it does not mean they wanted people to do this. Just like the fact that they cannot switch to server side position handling (to avoid lag and rubberbanding) – doesn’t mean you are allowed to teleport.

The turtle is a symbol for a specific sort of gameplay: numbers + specific skill rotation + abuse of skill limitations/flaws. This is hopefully not the sort of gameplay they want on GW2.

The problem with your logic is that there are plenty of ways to counter a turtle.. I have been with my guild when we send one engineer out to bomb them all away from the center, and mop up after that.

We have also used mesmers temporal curtain to pull them out. The ONLY aspect of a turtle I can imagine needing a change is stability. The fact that you cannot touch/knockdown/move the people in it is possibly needing a fix. Every other aspect of it is easy to counter with MAXIMUM of 2 skills, from one person.

earendil.1290:

There is no healing class. There are no uber efficient healing skills (including water ele). Anet made this choice since the beginning – everyone has to rely on his own mitigating skills – like rolling, and standing out of damage. They want a PvP that’s action based not skill based. You want games where PvP is based on using the right skill rotation and maybe the best items ? there are plenty but not this one.

How do you imagine that putting 40 players in the same spot in space is something “smart” and not an engine abuse ? Stacking 40 people in the same point is a “valid tactic” ? Just because ANet can’t switch collision detection (would be a mess) it does not mean they wanted people to do this. Just like the fact that they cannot switch to server side position handling (to avoid lag and rubberbanding) – doesn’t mean you are allowed to teleport.

The turtle is a symbol for a specific sort of gameplay: numbers + specific skill rotation + abuse of skill limitations/flaws. This is hopefully not the sort of gameplay they want on GW2.

“Turtling” is a valid tactics and has its strong and weak sides. But the correct solution to this problem should be removal or at least increase of target limit for AoE attacks and not limiting healing/buffing skills.

This is good and bad change. First its great to stop the scrubs standing in one spot and mesmer portaling like kds/ma/hb and any other guilds doing this and thinking they are good because of it.

Bad part is no selective healing in terms of now using virtue of resolve to heal 2 guys full health and 3 pets.. also doing this to a mechanic skill.

Then you also crippled a key part of your game mechanic with combos now also. They at least took some co-ordination to use properly to full effect.

The biggest problem of all will now be siege wars 2 again. Attacking a keep with 60+ enemy with 8-10 ac. 3 catas behind door/cannons. You may as well of just removed rams from game. Its time to stop catas behind door and give AC some cooldown or ammo. Or need line of sight to use. or even siege only hits 5 targets.

Only way to take keeps in this situation was to stack up at door and kill it while dropping waterfield + blasting to keep everyone up. and even then with so much damage you still had people dieing. Rams became useless as dead in 30 sec from cata. so only way was to stack and melee down door, and that was only possible because combo was unlimited target. Now build catas, they build catas, or a treb zzzz.

I would of preferred seeing no target limit on everything. would of fixed the same issue with having people turtling. With good co-ordination the tactic was totally fail anyways.

So yea its good change but bad to make wvw more stale with people sitting in keeps all day.

Once again Anet comes with a crappy way to fix things.

I don’t wanna be healing kitteny kitten pets or almost full heal targets near me.
I want to heal the dude in front of me that’s almost dead…

I might not want to heal the 5 randoms retreating into safety, but the 4 party members charging in with me at the same time to pull off our thing.

At least without cap everyone got healed, now I don’t even know who I ll be healing outside myself unless there’s only 4 others without pets or npcs.

Snow Aeth.1937:

Once again Anet comes with a crappy way to fix things.

I don’t wanna be healing kitteny kitten pets or almost full heal targets near me.
I want to heal the dude in front of me that’s almost dead…

I might not want to heal the 5 randoms retreating into safety, but the 4 party members charging in with me at the same time to pull off our thing.

At least without cap everyone got healed, now I don’t even know who I ll be healing outside myself unless there’s only 4 others without pets or npcs.

Anet doesn’t want to you target heal – they have gone out of their way to make it as hard as possible for you to do it. This is intentional.

There are a few ways to “kind of” target heal, like Engineer’s medkits, and Merciful Intervention (heh), but you not being able to fully control who you heal is what they want.

^
That’s play on luck
They promoted this kitten as – skill based game

Even outside of WvWvW
If I’m running a dungeon, and I aoe heal and we have a ranger, 4+pet gets healed 1 guy dies…
Why the kitten should there be random elment to that guy dieing or not when I clearly was gonna heal all except the kitteny pet

Totally second Sacrx here. It crushes down the nab portal turtles to the ground but mayby too hard? I enjoy diversity of combat tactics and seeing portal turtles against us was never a problem. For the diversity, I’d like to see it still being possible for those who wish to do it.

Of course we cannot say too much yet, but I have the same fear about the siege. Sieges against a reasonable defended keep with catapult, few arrow carts and people on walls are going to be quite impossible with rams or with anything near the door.
We have seen keeps with 3 catapults and nearing total of 10 arrowcarts/ballistas on the door. Only way to brake that ofc now will be with trebs and catapults. Which for me, as a player driven by combat in a combat guild, feels not as exiting as ramming the door, aoeing walls to mitigate damage, dealing with heavy damage and crowd control by the enemy siege.

So for me, I would like to see Water+Blast combo staying 10+ targets. As it requires coordination with the relatively short aoe radius, timing and the opportunity cost of having to use blast finishers on the water field and not on enemys.

But other than that it’s quite fine. Though I can see it being a huge blow for pug players too who love playing support and were feeling happy being very effective helping their team out, even though they weren’t organisedly gathering around him for healing. And now having their playstyle hammered. Like the biggest part of elementalists with EA nerf having their unique playstyle completely erased.

We will see, hope it doesn’t make everyone hide in their keeps and play treb v treb.

EDIT:
Yes, the 5 target heals absolutely, without a question, must be “clever targetted”. So they heal people who actually have lost health. Absolutely.

Sacrx.6721:

The biggest problem of all will now be siege wars 2 again. Attacking a keep with 60+ enemy with 8-10 ac. 3 catas behind door/cannons. You may as well of just removed rams from game. Its time to stop catas behind door and give AC some cooldown or ammo. Or need line of sight to use. or even siege only hits 5 targets.

well for one if they have 60+ defenders inside a keep then yes it’s gonna be a kitten to take. cos there’s a kitten of defenders, but with the exception of hills lord room, you can just treb their cata’s and arrow carts and all their walls gates etc into dust, it will take ages but you will force them to either leave the keep to get to the trebs, or sit there untill all their kitten is gone.

Terrible mistake. This game is slowly taking out any coordination in WvW at all. Next it’ll be portals. After that, what else is there to do but aimlessly run around in a giant zerg?

I think all the people complaining about this just liked to ez mode. I have no problem with this wonderful fix.

We faced off against a mindless AR zerg the other night trying to turtle us….we knocked out 2 waves of 5 golems each before they finally got it in their head to change tactics.

They built 3 catas on each side and started picking off our siege and defenders, then hitting the walls. We were heavily defended, but they finally weakened us enough to push through. Our only option was to leave the walls and try to destroy the catas and dislodge the siege…we couldn’t and they took it.

That’s a “tactic”, turtling was just a way to stand in one spot and spam and feel proud you took a tower.

Have people forgotten you can still give unlimited heals and buffs with combo fields? I feel like people are overlooking this mechanic.. Turtles are still viable with the right amount of combo field organization..

So many people crying about this. You that mad you cant turtle anymore? Come up with an actually tactical strategy that doesn’t involve abusing the game engine.

Metryn.8476:

snip

That’s a “tactic”, turtling was just a way to stand in one spot and spam and feel proud you took a tower.

Word!

/message must exceed 15 characters in length.

Raksha.8049:

Hmm, I am starting to wonder how much leading of coordinated WvW you have contributed in.

With your statement, you haven’t seen the bottle neck issues that every keep has due to the design of them. At these points, it took sheer zerg power to push through + what ever healing people could supply.

Now, with this change, I can’t see it happening unless they limit the amount of seige weapons allowed to be deployed inside a keep.

There is a limit as to how much siege can be placed.

Steadfast.5827:

Yeah they just took all the skill out of this game today. So enjoy cheering, but now its only about who has more numbers. Tactics no longer matters. Thanks A-net… Casual players are taking over another MMORPG

There’s nothing casual/hardcore about this issue.

“SmokeyNYY.7841

So many people crying about this. You that mad you cant turtle anymore? Come up with an actually tactical strategy that doesn’t involve abusing the game engine."

boon removal, conditions, and CC like knockback was the counter to turtle groups. What we’re mad at is now unskilled players can now lay waste to what was a good defensive stlye of game play. With out using the already available tactics such as boon removal and cc, now utilty builds are utterly useless. So the game is going to turn into make the best glass cannon you can and mash buttons as fast as possible to win. The turtle was the tactical answer to the glass cannon aoe face on keyboard tactic that no skill hacks will now use.

“Mikitten058

Raksha.8049:

Hmm, I am starting to wonder how much leading of coordinated WvW you have contributed in.

With your statement, you haven’t seen the bottle neck issues that every keep has due to the design of them. At these points, it took sheer zerg power to push through + what ever healing people could supply.

Now, with this change, I can’t see it happening unless they limit the amount of seige weapons allowed to be deployed inside a keep.

There is a limit as to how much siege can be placed."

What the bottle neck where you can lay down aoe boon removal then cc to displace them problem…oh wait not really a problem is you just use the already in place counters to the so called turtle problem.

“Telegraph.7509

Snow Aeth.1937:

Once again Anet comes with a crappy way to fix things.

I don’t wanna be healing kitteny kitten pets or almost full heal targets near me.
I want to heal the dude in front of me that’s almost dead…

I might not want to heal the 5 randoms retreating into safety, but the 4 party members charging in with me at the same time to pull off our thing.

At least without cap everyone got healed, now I don’t even know who I ll be healing outside myself unless there’s only 4 others without pets or npcs.

Anet doesn’t want to you target heal – they have gone out of their way to make it as hard as possible for you to do it. This is intentional.

There are a few ways to “kind of” target heal, like Engineer’s medkits, and Merciful Intervention (heh), but you not being able to fully control who you heal is what they want."

Unless you’re an Anet developer keep your amazing kreskin thoughts on what they want to yourself.

Once again a game developer gives in to the casuals crying on the forums, and makes the game more casual friendly. Not really a shocker to anyone with experience from other mmo´s. This is sadly a trend amongst developers that seems to be here to stay. Make the games so that a 2 month old blind monkey can play it.

There will be guilds that move on, and think of other ways to counter mindless blobs, and there will be guilds that give in and give up. My hopes are most will stay.

Sabull.5670:

Yes, the 5 target heals absolutely, without a question, must be “clever targetted”. So they heal people who actually have lost health. Absolutely.

Already I can tell you there’s some clever targeting. The Necromancer trait Transfusion, which heals Allies while using the Life Transfer (I believe) never healed a target that already had full health. You would not see extra numbers pop up unless they were low health.

Personally, and quite honestly: I would rather have seen full out aoe + full out heal.

However, I do together with a lot of my guild mates and some other comments I’ve seen here, have a lot of confidence with Anet to make something good out of WvW longterm. They have always nerfed the most popular spike teams in GW1, so why not continue it now with the balancing.

Also: I’ve heard that the next big content patch might be more WvW centric? Hooray!

All this does is to slightly nerf turtles and give one more reason (in addition to stability) to set them up in groups having a guardian in each one.

Its sad to see that Arenanet gives in to those that complain the most on the forum simply because they don’t have the knowledge of how to counter this.

If they wanted to adress this ’’issue’’ this is probably the worst option of all viable ones to tackle it. Just increasing the amount of targets you can hit with an AoE attack or limiting the healing to 10-15 would have been a better choice.

If i am in zerg do i heal my party members or just 5 random players who are close?

Junkpile.7439:

If i am in zerg do i heal my party members or just 5 random players who are close?

AoE ordering works as follows:

1) Party members first
2) Non-party members in order of proximity from AoE center

Nokaru.7831:

Every siege weapon has a counter, no matter where it is placed. If your enemy placed siege in a strategic location, so you’re supposed to either go to a more vulnerable area or figure out how to counter it.

Maybe you forgot you have Arrow Carts, Ballista, Catapults and Trebuchet at your disposal. Turtles didn’t need to do that after all; they just auto-attacked gates and won.

Its what happens when the W vs W turns into a “capture n leave” no need for deffend will eventually get recaptured again and left alone.

Why is siege being stronger wrong?
Why is it bad if taking fortifications is more difficult?

These are all good changes. Taking a fortification should be an achievement and glorious moment. Not a 5-min zerg event. I am not talking about SM here, but how it is on average.

Sacrx.6721:

I would of preferred seeing no target limit on everything.

This would be a horrible thing. Most of the skills in the game are single target. They’re already weak in WvW, no need to make them even worse, comparatively speaking. And it would be a huge blow to a mesmer who doesn’t have proper AoE and needs to rely on those few utility skills.

This wont really change a thing about people stacking up. Even if they removed healing completely, even if they removed the benefits of blasting combo fields and everyone sharing their boons, there would still be the biggest reason to stack up when outside of siege range.

All the players upset by this patch are the ones who turtle.

Healing should not ever, under any circumstances, make siege equipment irrelevant. This is a game of sieging. The “turtle” strategy was not what Anet wanted to have happen in WvW, so they changed the mechanic that made it viable.

I get that some people want to heal, but they’re playing the wrong game then. I originally came in wanting to heal, but quickly learned that wouldn’t happen. This game is supposed to be about damage avoidance and mitigation, not healing. That’s why there are so many skills that negate/avoid/lower damage. That is the healing mechanic this game has. The “turtle” strategy showed them where a problem was, and they fixed it. It was never intended for 40 people to stand on top of each other as a way of staying alive. It was supposed to be about building siege, moving around the field, etc.

There’s nothing hardcore about ZergVzergVzerg…

Its the most casual find the largest group to stomp a gate game mode Ive ever seen…

Most people who do it are PVE players…who complain about anything if they dont like getting killed or camped.

Removing infinite heals is fine…hopefully this will keep people like that out especially the ones who turtled their way through since launch.

Learn to not stand in the red…and guess what?! use your own healing skill!

People that cry about turtling are just bad players. Unfortunately ArenaNet gave into it. You know how many times I’ve seen turtles “crack” when it was basically a guild in my server that introduced it?

This is just bad. Limit it to 10, but 5 can’t do anything. Great, just spent the last 3 weeks leveling a support Guardian. Guess the game’s all about DPS now. At least my main is a thief. I stayed away from full berserkers, guess I might start doing those 15k crits for easy kills since strategy is completely out the window.

Not to mention the less health for downed players only hurts the people with less population.

Just leave WvW alone. People are ALWAYS going to cry about tactics that kill them. ArenaNet needs to STOP giving in to complaining casual players. A fairly large guild in Blackgate has QUIT because this game was too casual. I don’t want to see this game fail but patches that essentially make certain players USELESS in WvW are gone.

Now those top elite guilds are just going to require everyone to roll mesmer, guardian and Warrior to get maximum efficient healing, and then healing is just going to be flat out removed from the game at the direction this is going

You do know that WvW was intended to be casual? It was clearly stated that it was for the casual player, and that “hardcores” had sPvP. Turtling was a clever use of game mechanics that cause those very same mechanics to change.

Warlord.9074:

All the players upset by this patch are the ones who turtle.

And the ones that farmed badgers from them….

buzzkapow.8465:

You do know that WvW was intended to be casual? It was clearly stated that it was for the casual player, and that “hardcores” had sPvP.

That would be all ok if sPvP wasn’t absolute trash PvP mode for those of us familiar with GW1. I rate sPvP in GW2 under even RA from GW1 and that’s saying a lot. TA (old Prophecy version), HA, GvG, FA – all these were way more fun and tactical to me than GW2 combat and sPvP. I can’t comment on tPvP but I don’t want to play 5-man AB.

sPvP bores me to death, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed even observing GvG in GW1.

So it’s no surprise that a lot of real PvPers are actually in WvW or not playing at all.

Ianervan.3415:

buzzkapow.8465:

You do know that WvW was intended to be casual? It was clearly stated that it was for the casual player, and that “hardcores” had sPvP.

That would be all ok if sPvP wasn’t absolute trash PvP mode for those of us familiar with GW1. I rate sPvP in GW2 under even RA from GW1 and that’s saying a lot. TA (old Prophecy version), HA, GvG, FA – all these were way more fun and tactical to me than GW2 combat and sPvP. I can’t comment on tPvP but I don’t want to play 5-man AB.

sPvP bores me to death, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed even observing GvG in GW1.

So it’s no surprise that a lot of real PvPers are actually in WvW or not playing at all.

I think thats how a lot of people feel about this game i hear where your coming from with this and i think a large majority of the players that play this game feel the same way. I expected to do about 50% Wvwvw and 50 % structured in this game. I have done hardly any structured and a lot of Wvwvw, which i find strange for a “Guild Wars” game. The big failure is the capping system in structured what happened to the deathmatch system from GW1 where you had to fight as a group to win you have missed the ball completely ANet.

I will say this though Wvwvw can be extremely fun and i do think, besides the obvious culling problems and other things here and there that Anet have done a good job with it. It gets the adrenaline pumping more than Warhammer in my opinion.

Ianervan.3415:

buzzkapow.8465:

You do know that WvW was intended to be casual? It was clearly stated that it was for the casual player, and that “hardcores” had sPvP.

That would be all ok if sPvP wasn’t absolute trash PvP mode for those of us familiar with GW1. I rate sPvP in GW2 under even RA from GW1 and that’s saying a lot. TA (old Prophecy version), HA, GvG, FA – all these were way more fun and tactical to me than GW2 combat and sPvP. I can’t comment on tPvP but I don’t want to play 5-man AB.

sPvP bores me to death, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed even observing GvG in GW1.

So it’s no surprise that a lot of real PvPers are actually in WvW or not playing at all.

THIS^^^^^^

You nailed it on the head!!

sPVP is currently trash…gotta find something to do besides quitting which I refuse to just yet …or at least until Elder scrolls online comes out and see if thats better then this for PVP

This is so disappointing for me! I do not like this healing bubbles, but you can destroy them or reduce their effectiveness better than by reducing healing aoe to 5.

I’m a necromancer and I love to play support. I do not get that much kills and most players do not understand that my wells are powerful if they use them right. However I do not give up and no this… Sorry, but that is just no good decision and here is why I think so:

1) There is much more AoE damage fields/skills than AoE heal skills
2) necromancer/ranger has pets. How are they counted? So it is a PvE nerf too..
3) AoE healing output is so much lower than damage output

So I think reducing it to 5 is a overshot.
I think aoe basic healing output has either to be increased or at least work for 10 targets and if you still think it has not to be, what is with our pets??

ridiculous way to fix this “problem” there are hardly any OP or Strong healing abilities in this game. DO Anet actually consult with players in trying to find solutions to percieved problems?

Hatchet.4513:

ridiculous way to fix this “problem” there are hardly any OP or Strong healing abilities in this game. DO Anet actually consult with players in trying to find solutions to percieved problems?

The issue was players “stacking” on top of one another and throwing heals for all to get, while AOE’s form the enemy only hit 5 people each time.

Anet went about a “cap” to healing though IMHO they should have removed AOE’s cap, or at least raised the Cap based off of enemies in proximity.

I’ll take what we got for now, but I do think they will possibly change it in the future. (They tend to ninja read the forums and complaints about things, and actively try to change things.)

Healing abilities were meant to be a bonus to help your team. If you are finding that people are dying, don’t blame the fix to AoE healing, but rather blame your teammates for poor survival skills. You can avoid most damage by moving and you have an Endurance bar which gives you the ability to Dodge (immune to damage). Every Profession can equip defensive abilities which can make you immune, block, stealth, etc.

The limitless healing was being mostly abused by the players employing the “Turtle” tactic. It’s fairly obvious to anyone that has played with it or against it that it is not a style of play that fits GW2 at all. (Stand there and heal through all the damage) This fix should come as no surprise to anyone.

The amount being healed has not been reduced, but rather only the number of targets. Instead of complaining about this fix, ask what can be done to improve it? What makes the AoE healing abilities annoying or frustrating to use in WvW? If ArenaNet improved on the targeting features, would it help?

zoobaby.7804:

Warlord.9074:

All the players upset by this patch are the ones who turtle.

And the ones that farmed badgers from them….

Well they shouldn’t have been carrying around a bunch of badgers in the first place.

Get skilled Mesmers who know how to portal?

lol if you didn’t see this coming. Pretty sure their vision of a warzone didn’t involve people standing on top of each other.

Raksha.8049:

Saying give up and go to another area is out of the question if there is only 1 or 2 areas left which may very well be a keep is not an option.

I see this becoming a serious issue when it could only take 6 – 7 people to lock down a zerg of 50 people into a bottleneck.

If there are only one or two other areas left, congratulations, you are clearly winning.

The defenders will always be able to stuff enough siege and bodies in a single choke point to make it almost impossible to take.

The thing is, that does nothing for them on a map with many objectives: if they lose everything else, they lose the match.

Keeps and towers were designed to be successfully held by smaller forces.

The issue with turtling wasn’t ever about stupid people turtling, as I see many people saying things like “it’s easy to counter stupid people turtling”. Sure, stupid people stacking together is a good way to kill lots of stupid people. Some people actually understood the “technique” however. Perma-stability, retaliation, 25 stacks of might for everyone, 20+ people shouting heals for 30k+ per second healing for everyone, enough people to insta-rez anyone who actually drops…… The was NO counter for turtling done “right”.

Thanks Anet for fixing this exploit.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Keeps and towers were designed to be successfully held by smaller forces.

The issue with turtling wasn’t ever about stupid people turtling, as I see many people saying things like “it’s easy to counter stupid people turtling”. Sure, stupid people stacking together is a good way to kill lots of stupid people. Some people actually understood the “technique” however. Perma-stability, retaliation, 25 stacks of might for everyone, 20+ people shouting heals for 30k+ per second healing for everyone, enough people to insta-rez anyone who actually drops…… The was NO counter for turtling done “right”.

Thanks Anet for fixing this exploit.

Don’t forget almost 100% up-time on Projectile Reflection/Deflection.