Previously, a topic regarding the failing health of myself and many other top tier guild leaders and players due to excessive play in WvW non-prime time in order to cover for the 24/7 game time and falling player numbers was closed because the argument was “derailed”. However, some great suggestion was made by a particular individual called Jaxon caught my eye. I’m surprised Anet didn’t think of it. Somehow Anet dreamed of 24/7 WvW but did not create an environment that naturally allowed this to blossom. THAT is the biggest flaw of WvW design. Not your spawn camp issues, not jumping puzzle camping, not even little hacks and culling. You simply created a world that was not sustainable for the players. We are forced to leave due to exhaustion and burn out.
So let’s discuss it again, The Jaxon Method
To quote Mr. Jaxon himself:
The main point about a casual game with a really great game mode in WvW is really not casual enough.
I wonder if they could link an NA server with a Euro server when you entered WvW, the same way we can sPvP with anyone. That’d help everyone.
So for example SoS would share a permanent WvW space with Blacktide, so it’s a SOS/Blacktide server.
Further Quote Black Ice Spain, who is a European player
The idea about linking servers with hours is great (euro servers with the opposite-hour ones) IMO. Plus they can do a real balance doing so (link t1 with worst servers, t2 with 2nd worst servers…). And language barrier shouldn’t be that big if each one plays at different hours.
My personal thoughts is that it should be randomly matched at the beginning. It doesn’t matter anyways, people will move themselves with transfer.
I think this is a great idea. Technical difficulties can be resolved with money. You want to invest now to save the game or have you reaped enough to abandon your investment? Only Anet knows. So far it seems there isn’t a separate EU and US distribution, so it seems that server merging across territory will not affect the financial and legal structure. I don’t know about the details, but again, do you let a minor barrier destroy your baby which has an underlying flaw, which technically CAN be fixed, or give up on it? Up to you Anet.
To the people saying: “lol you have an addiction it’s your fault”
I’m sure Anet, a large corporation with capable legal advice and an eye on the media knows this, it’s not that simple. It’s look at a simple court case.
Tobacco company produces cigarettes. Smokers become addicted not knowing it was addictive. Smokers sue Tobacco company claiming they gave them an addictive and harmful product without warning. People say “lol you’re addicted to cigarettes it’s your fault”. Does Tobacco company pay? Yes! Is industry more regulated? Yes! Are you, the citizens, getting taxed more? Yes!
The biggest flaw is that Anet advertised this as a “Casual Game” yet created an environment and scoring system that is exactly the opposite of casual and promotes hardcore playing. Lawyers will have a field day. Simply put: “In America…”
It’s time to review your policy Anet. I love this game, I don’t want your ship to sink like SWTOR. I want it to last a long time. Let’s take this in a positive stride. We are your top players, I’m sorry to tell you in an elitist fashion. Your guild system is horrible but the guild leaders are still trying their best to hold the communities together. Without community, how else can we get people to play between your amazing one time PVE event down times? It’s communities that create MMOs in the long run, not game play or graphics. Don’t burn us out, don’t force us to leave.
Thanks.
I’m not going to respond to the entirety of the thread, just one portion in particular:
There’s a difference between highly lethal chemical (nicotine) addictions and failing to keep up with real life due to a video game, regardless of what your “responsibilities” might be in-game. Make time to find other people to fill in when you cannot run 20 hour shifts in WvW. That’s what responsible people do.
That said, I’d agree with some server merges given enough space per server. Just not for the outlined reasons.
Server physical locations is an issue, do you propose screwing over America or Europe for latency (I’m an Aussie I’m used to bad ping, but maybe others aren’t)
I would imagine you are in quite a minority that are so addicted to this game that your own health is failing. I don’t believe Anet is at fault in fact getting people ‘hooked’ is their business and goal I would imagine, the degree of that though seperates into being very much your own mental problem and not their game design.
You seem to skirt around the issue that you personally have this problem seeming to see that everyone is in your boat, and it’s up to Anet to sort it somehow so kind of excusing the fact that you yourself need to take a step back.
Tobacco companies mostly only paid when the people that took ill from it started smoking at an age where smoking was advertised as a good or even healthy thing to do, it was false advertisng. Anet hasn’t said I don’t think that playing this game 16 hours a day will vastly improve your health and social life if they had then you might have a leg to stand on with this argument.
Server physical locations is an issue, do you propose screwing over America or Europe for latency (I’m an Aussie I’m used to bad ping, but maybe others aren’t)
Its not really our responsibility as customers to think about such technical issues. Anyways some USA guilds play on EU and vice versa. No problems reported so far.
If you want to make it your responsibility, submit a resume to Anet and make it your problem to solve.
Server physical locations is an issue, do you propose screwing over America or Europe for latency (I’m an Aussie I’m used to bad ping, but maybe others aren’t)
Its not really our responsibility as customers to think about such technical issues. Anyways some USA guilds play on EU and vice versa. No problems reported so far.
If you want to make it your responsibility, submit a resume to Anet and make it your problem to solve.
It’s not our responsibility to think about such technical issues, but it IS something that affects us. I don’t know how much you know about computer networking, but connecting to a US server vs. connecting to a EU server IS a big difference. Some, depending on the combination of the user’s time, location, and ISP, may not notice too big of a difference, but on average, it is something you cannot ignore, especially in a PVP game where even half a second counts.
I do find your posts ludicrous though. It’s like.. you bought a Prius and you feel this pressure/need to drive the car to get the most of the mileage advantage, and now you’re suing Toyota because their product is making you drive excessively.
ping should not be a problem atall, heres why:
3 EU servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in EU data center)
3 NA servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in NA data center)
now,
Mix 1 eu server and 1 na server and make a server x
mix 2nd eu server and 2nd na server and make server y
mix 3rd eu server and 3rd na server and make server z
during eu primetime, server x,y,z will fight each other, since all the eu populations are still housed in eu data center, its the same as its happeing now( only the server name changes and nothing else)
when NA logs in , they also fight each other again on servers x,y,z, (they will again be housed in thier own NA data center)
so, as you see, the servers x,y,z are not a physical location at all, instead they are just names of the servers.
Anet should have done this from the beginning as this would have sorted night capping and population balance.
Elders scrolls online is doing something similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AkiQBc2moY
(edited by salluks.6017)
ping should not be a problem atall, heres why:
3 EU servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in EU data center)
3 NA servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in NA data center)now,
Mix 1 eu server and 1 na server and make a server x
mix 2nd eu server and 2nd na server and make server y
mix 3rd eu server and 3rd na server and make server zduring eu primetime, server x,y,z will fight each other, since all the eu populations are still housed in eu data center, its the same as its happeing now( only the server name changes and nothing else)
when NA logs in , they also fight each other again on servers x,y,z, (they will again be housed in thier own NA data center)so, as you see, the servers x,y,z are not a physical location at all, instead they are just names of the servers.
Anet should have done this from the beginning as this would have sorted night capping and population balance.
Elders scrolls online is doing something similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AkiQBc2moY
What? So you’re talking about 2 physical servers (one US and one EU) combined to form a single virtual server? That still doesn’t do away with ping. If you’re going to place a player in NA in the same world/zone/instance as a player in EU, they’re going to have to communicate, meaning you’ll still have data being sent over transatlantic fiber cables → higher ping.
The game is not dieing, WvW is not dieing, and it would seem posts like this are also not dieing…
This suggestion has been made earlier and it even got an official response. Merging EU and US was not possible due to one server being in NA and another in EU which cannot be merged, that is what I remember.
Edit: Here is the official response by Habib Loew
The North American and European data centers are different in one important respect: they are located on different continents. North American players connecting to the NA data center (and European Union players connecting to the EU data center) will generally experience lower latency and a higher likelihood of playing with larger groups of other players, as those in the same data center tend to operate during similar times of the day. So there are real distinctions between the data centers which their EU/NA affiliations make clear and for that reason we will not be removing their continent designations.
We don’t match up worlds from multiple data centers for similar reasons. Ultimately, the server that runs a WvW map must live somewhere in the world and the players who connect from that same continent will have a distinct advantage over those connecting from another continent due to lower latency. In order to keep things as fair as possible to all involved we keep the matchups within each data center.
Of course it is always possible for an EU player to choose to play on an NA server, or vice-versa, but in doing so that player is choosing to take on the burden of additional latency. That situation is vastly different from our matching system placing an entire team at a latency disadvantage without their knowledge or consent.
tl;dr: data centers are on different continents, latency is an issue with inter-continental connections, data center distinctions are here to stay.
Just let the people chose 2 different servers. 1 PvE server where they play PvE and another server for WvW. Then you can have a full server with tons of people where most of them play PvE only and the few WvW players won’t need to whine because no one is doing WvW – because they just can WvW at another server. In fact… just make the server restriction only for WvW and let us join PvE every server we want(would be a good idea for that guest function they want to make… make it just like this and no need for other people or friends to be on a server to join there but let us join everywhere without restriction).
Build an artificial island in the middle of the Atlantic and put a data center there for everyone. Problem solved.
ping should not be a problem atall, heres why:
3 EU servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in EU data center)
3 NA servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in NA data center)now,
Mix 1 eu server and 1 na server and make a server x
mix 2nd eu server and 2nd na server and make server y
mix 3rd eu server and 3rd na server and make server zduring eu primetime, server x,y,z will fight each other, since all the eu populations are still housed in eu data center, its the same as its happeing now( only the server name changes and nothing else)
when NA logs in , they also fight each other again on servers x,y,z, (they will again be housed in thier own NA data center)so, as you see, the servers x,y,z are not a physical location at all, instead they are just names of the servers.
Anet should have done this from the beginning as this would have sorted night capping and population balance.
Elders scrolls online is doing something similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AkiQBc2moYWhat? So you’re talking about 2 physical servers (one US and one EU) combined to form a single virtual server? That still doesn’t do away with ping. If you’re going to place a player in NA in the same world/zone/instance as a player in EU, they’re going to have to communicate, meaning you’ll still have data being sent over transatlantic fiber cables -> higher ping.
Ok let me explain with an example,
u work at apple computers in EU, your closest competition is Microsoft office of EU.
i work at apple computer in us, our competition is also Microsoft of us.
now, lets say the global apple computer is located in africa and global Microsoft is also located in africa.
so even though me and you will never move and compete only against your local microsoft, when the global market is concerned, the my contribution and your contribution will go to global apple. same for microsoft.
so on a global scale, gobal apple computers is doing well, cos am doing my part in us and u are doing urs in eu, and none of us have to physically move atall.
use the same logic on servers.
This suggestion has been made earlier and it even got an official response. Merging EU and US was not possible due to one server being in NA and another in EU which cannot be merged, that is what I remember.
Edit: Here is the official response by Habib Loew
The North American and European data centers are different in one important respect: they are located on different continents. North American players connecting to the NA data center (and European Union players connecting to the EU data center) will generally experience lower latency and a higher likelihood of playing with larger groups of other players, as those in the same data center tend to operate during similar times of the day. So there are real distinctions between the data centers which their EU/NA affiliations make clear and for that reason we will not be removing their continent designations.
We don’t match up worlds from multiple data centers for similar reasons. Ultimately, the server that runs a WvW map must live somewhere in the world and the players who connect from that same continent will have a distinct advantage over those connecting from another continent due to lower latency. In order to keep things as fair as possible to all involved we keep the matchups within each data center.
Of course it is always possible for an EU player to choose to play on an NA server, or vice-versa, but in doing so that player is choosing to take on the burden of additional latency. That situation is vastly different from our matching system placing an entire team at a latency disadvantage without their knowledge or consent.
tl;dr: data centers are on different continents, latency is an issue with inter-continental connections, data center distinctions are here to stay.
We appreciate the official response, we understand it is difficult, and we have tried it.
But we are telling them: Sorry, not good enough for your customers. Please change.
/signed
Our server is constantly out manned in my hour of play due to time zone differences. There is a huge time gap between NA players and Korean players. European players would fill that gap.
ping should not be a problem atall, heres why:
3 EU servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in EU data center)
3 NA servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in NA data center)now,
Mix 1 eu server and 1 na server and make a server x
mix 2nd eu server and 2nd na server and make server y
mix 3rd eu server and 3rd na server and make server zduring eu primetime, server x,y,z will fight each other, since all the eu populations are still housed in eu data center, its the same as its happeing now( only the server name changes and nothing else)
when NA logs in , they also fight each other again on servers x,y,z, (they will again be housed in thier own NA data center)so, as you see, the servers x,y,z are not a physical location at all, instead they are just names of the servers.
Anet should have done this from the beginning as this would have sorted night capping and population balance.
Elders scrolls online is doing something similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AkiQBc2moYWhat? So you’re talking about 2 physical servers (one US and one EU) combined to form a single virtual server? That still doesn’t do away with ping. If you’re going to place a player in NA in the same world/zone/instance as a player in EU, they’re going to have to communicate, meaning you’ll still have data being sent over transatlantic fiber cables -> higher ping.
Ok let me explain with an example,
u work at apple computers in EU, your closest competition is Microsoft office of EU.
i work at apple computer in us, our competition is also Microsoft of us.
now, lets say the global apple computer is located in africa and global Microsoft is also located in africa.
so even though me and you will never move and compete only against your local microsoft, when the global market is concerned, the my contribution and your contribution will go to global apple. same for microsoft.
so on a global scale, gobal apple computers is doing well, cos am doing my part in us and u are doing urs in eu, and none of us have to physically move atall.
use the same logic on servers.
Ok, I’m either stupid right now and not understanding your logic (or how your illustration relates to servers), or you just don’t understand how servers work.
But let me guess what you’re trying to say. It sounds like you’re proposing a tier-ed server system like how corporations are tier-ed based on locations. You have Apple HQ in California, but there are still Apple divisions throughout the world. So by that logic, there would be a sub-server for EU and another sub-server for US. A NA player connects to the US sub-server and EU player connects to the EU sub-server, and then the sub-servers connects to the global master-server.
If that indeed is what you’re proposing, that does nothing to eliminate the latency problem. All the algorithmic computation needs to be handled by a single server or a machine (such has how much damage a player does, which players are near what, etc), which means all players need to send data to a physical server somewhere, whether it be US, EU or even Africa. So, having this multi-tiered server system only creates unnecessary redundancies, since all data would still need to be sent to one server handling the game engine anyway.
If this is hard to understand to you, just think about the data traffic involved when a EU player casts a spell and a NA player sees it. The data would have to be sent from the EU player’s computer, thru the Atlantic Ocean, and finally to the US player’s computer. Doesn’t this sound like it would take much longer time than if two players around the same region did the same thing?
…
Ok let me explain with an example,u work at apple computers in EU, your closest competition is Microsoft office of EU.
i work at apple computer in us, our competition is also Microsoft of us.
now, lets say the global apple computer is located in africa and global Microsoft is also located in africa.
so even though me and you will never move and compete only against your local microsoft, when the global market is concerned, the my contribution and your contribution will go to global apple. same for microsoft.
so on a global scale, gobal apple computers is doing well, cos am doing my part in us and u are doing urs in eu, and none of us have to physically move atall.
use the same logic on servers.
Ok, I’m either stupid right now and not understanding your logic (or how your illustration relates to servers), or you just don’t understand how servers work.
But let me guess what you’re trying to say. It sounds like you’re proposing a tier-ed server system like how corporations are tier-ed based on locations. You have Apple HQ in California, but there are still Apple divisions throughout the world. So by that logic, there would be a sub-server for EU and another sub-server for US. A NA player connects to the US sub-server and EU player connects to the EU sub-server, and then the sub-servers connects to the global master-server.
…
I believe that he said that, if the servers have 50% of players originated from NA and other 50% from EU, although 50% of the players have latency issues, the overall server is balanced when compared to others in the same situation.
Imo, Merging NA and EU datacenters would create a lot of network issues to the players, and we cannot overlook them balanced or not.
- EU players can play with a still decent ping in NA servers. Eastern Europe/Russian Players cannot.
- NA players can play with a still decent ping in EU servers. Oceanic /Asian players cannot.
Merging servers could be beneficial in some things, like competitiveness, but in the end players would be severely affected.
For me a simple merging the NA and EU tiers would suffice, and the players would sort themselves naturally. But it is in the same boat as the above. Physical networking limitations would make it impossible, as Habib said.
Pair the NA & EU servers but still keep them separate?
As in NA players play on NA servers, EU players play on EU servers but each NA server has an EU counterpart it is paired with, at the end of the week both servers scores are combined and the rankings sorted from that.
EDIT actually the more I think about it the more I realise that is a dumb idea lol
This wont happen for 1 reason, No EU player will want to play on the NA servers.
Oceanic players will not want to play on EU servers. End of story.
Comparing tobacco and GW2 is blasphemous. One has ingredients to make you reliant on them, this causes addiction. GW2 maybe addictive to some extent, but not like that.
Sorry about your health issues, but real life comes first, win or lose, it’s a game.
This wont happen for 1 reason, No EU player will want to play on the NA servers.
Oceanic players will not want to play on EU servers. End of story.Comparing tobacco and GW2 is blasphemous. One has ingredients to make you reliant on them, this causes addiction. GW2 maybe addictive to some extent, but not like that.
Sorry about your health issues, but real life comes first, win or lose, it’s a game.
Hey!!! I am a UK player and I play on NA servers, always have …. EU servers are full of … Europeans :P lol
This wont happen for 1 reason, No EU player will want to play on the NA servers.
Oceanic players will not want to play on EU servers. End of story.Comparing tobacco and GW2 is blasphemous. One has ingredients to make you reliant on them, this causes addiction. GW2 maybe addictive to some extent, but not like that.
Sorry about your health issues, but real life comes first, win or lose, it’s a game.
Hey!!! I am a UK player and I play on NA servers, always have …. EU servers are full of … Europeans :P lol
Well that’s great, I know a few EU players playing on NA servers. But I also know a few more who would actually quit the game if their ping where to shoot up. -shrug-
And as for me, I’m Australian and if the servers where in EU, sorry, I’m out and taking my friends with me, ping isn’t bad to the NA servers, but I’ve tried EU, no, just no.
i dont wann play with US or vs US – im on EU and on EU we still have a lot servers with “Character”
we have 2 from this 24/7 (blacktide and seafarers) servers cause everyone and there dog transfer there and think they are pro and they are just what they are – a big blob from everywehre and noone (nearly) wanna be t1 and fight them cause its just boring
our ranking is fine and it starts tier 2 and i realy hope we will never have something like this US ranking
only thing anet can do is
- remove US ppl in EU and EU in US
- stop server hopping or atleast set the cap lower than it is now so ppl move to low server and not “full” servers ^^
- and finally stop nightcapping with low points at night
done – problem fixed
i dont wann play with US or vs US – im on EU and on EU we still have a lot servers with “Character”
we have 2 from this 24/7 (blacktide and seafarers) servers cause everyone and there dog transfer there and think they are pro and they are just what they are – a big blob from everywehre and noone (nearly) wanna be t1 and fight them cause its just boringour ranking is fine and it starts tier 2 and i realy hope we will never have something like this US ranking
only thing anet can do is
- remove US ppl in EU and EU in US
- stop server hopping or atleast set the cap lower than it is now so ppl move to low server and not “full” servers ^^
- and finally stop nightcapping with low points at nightdone – problem fixed
Lol really, again? Sorry, but as ANet has said, nightcapping will always be around because it’s not night everywhere in the world.
ye"always be around"
you know arenanet unpinned this “nightcapping and you” thingie here in this forum this week?
so ye we can hope areanet maby learned cause this nightcapping kills most population in w3
(edited by Romek.4201)
ye"always be around"
you know arenanet unpinned this nightcap thingie here in the forum this week?
so ye we can hope areanet maby learned cause this nightcapping kills most population in w3
They removed it because it was pointless? You can sticky something for the life of the game and people will never change their opinion. These people are entitled.
i dont wann play with US or vs US – im on EU and on EU we still have a lot servers with “Character”
we have 2 from this 24/7 (blacktide and seafarers) servers cause everyone and there dog transfer there and think they are pro and they are just what they are – a big blob from everywehre and noone (nearly) wanna be t1 and fight them cause its just boringour ranking is fine and it starts tier 2 and i realy hope we will never have something like this US ranking
only thing anet can do is
- remove US ppl in EU and EU in US
- stop server hopping or atleast set the cap lower than it is now so ppl move to low server and not “full” servers ^^
- and finally stop nightcapping with low points at nightdone – problem fixed
I agree with the ‘stop server hopping’ but as far as the rest goes,
Remove US ppl from EU and EU from US?? I am from the UK and I play on US servers because that’s where my friends from GW1 play, so are you saying I should be moved to an EU server regardless of where my friends are based?
As far as ‘night capping’ goes, one man’s night is another man’s day, so who’s world should the ability to get points in wvw revolve around? Yours?
At a certain point in the night should West Coast NA players be told ‘sorry, you have to have crap points for capping now because all the East Coast players have gone to bed’?
Should mainland EU or Eastern European players be told at a certain time ‘Sorry, crap points for capping now because all the UK players went to bed’?
What about Oceanic’s? They don’t have the luxury of their own server but should be told ‘Sorry, crap points for capping for you because the rest of the world is asleep’??
Anyone who suggests that ‘Night capping’ should be punished is plain selfish, nothing more.
@Cloud:
well we all know what Arenanet did say about nightcapping. We did read that…… BUT when i read that i had slight feelings of not noticing…. and would like to give u a small hint to sometimes do a bit “out of a box thinking”: unlike Northamerica with its millions of squaremiles of wide land an many people AND if you count Canada, Alaska AND Hawaii its 8 timezones (each 1 hour of timediffrence) we in Europe have mostly ONE Timezone. Just ONE. That means: when it is night Most players sleep. The One that doesnt cannot keep that pace forever. Here in Europe u have the Problem when Thatcher you go to sleep in eastern Europe people in Western Europe will mostly do too. Total diffrent to NA east- to westcoast population.
@ topic:
To prevent burnout i advise u the following => it is a game after all. just Don`t play if u feel unhealthy. Its you choice.
@Cloud:
well we all know what Arenanet did say about nightcapping. We did read that…… BUT when i read that i had slight feelings of not noticing…. and would like to give u a small hint to sometimes do a bit “out of a box thinking”: unlike Northamerica with its millions of squaremiles of wide land an many people AND if you count Canada, Alaska AND Hawaii its 8 timezones (each 1 hour of timediffrence) we in Europe have mostly ONE Timezone. Just ONE. That means: when it is night Most players sleep. The One that doesnt cannot keep that pace forever. Here in Europe u have the Problem when Thatcher you go to sleep in eastern Europe people in Western Europe will mostly do too. Total diffrent to NA east- to westcoast population.@ topic:
To prevent burnout i advise u the following => it is a game after all. just Don`t play if u feel unhealthy. Its you choice.
Well tbh, I don’t really care about the EU servers, lol :-/
But I’ve said my two cents on the entire situation.
Just fix nightcapping.
Scale the points so that more are earned at a region’s prime time than during the small hours. People who want to play during the night can have still have fun hitting the doors.
This game is supposed to be based on skill but really winning is decided by which server has the most people PvE’ing in WvW when nobody else is around. In terms of healthy competition its a farce.
Just fix nightcapping.
Scale the points so that more are earned at a region’s prime time than during the small hours. People who want to play during the night can have still have fun hitting the doors.
This game is supposed to be based on skill but really winning is decided by which server has the most people PvE’ing in WvW when nobody else is around. In terms of healthy competition its a farce.
Again, wont happen because Oceanic players shouldn’t be punished for playing during their prime time. Actually, TC(Which I am on) Almost lost the bay on their border lands which was fully upgraded. In which they had 3x more people at the time in that borderlands. I think NA players are blissfully unaware of how many NA players actually play during their night time, aka prime time. It’s not PvDoor. The game doesn’t revolve around you.
And WvW based on skill? lol maybe, but it also revolves around numbers, no?
@Cloud:
well we all know what Arenanet did say about nightcapping. We did read that…… BUT when i read that i had slight feelings of not noticing…. and would like to give u a small hint to sometimes do a bit “out of a box thinking”: unlike Northamerica with its millions of squaremiles of wide land an many people AND if you count Canada, Alaska AND Hawaii its 8 timezones (each 1 hour of timediffrence) we in Europe have mostly ONE Timezone. Just ONE. That means: when it is night Most players sleep. The One that doesnt cannot keep that pace forever. Here in Europe u have the Problem when Thatcher you go to sleep in eastern Europe people in Western Europe will mostly do too. Total diffrent to NA east- to westcoast population.@ topic:
To prevent burnout i advise u the following => it is a game after all. just Don`t play if u feel unhealthy. Its you choice.
NA servers : difference between PST and EST = 3 hours
EU servers : UK = GMT, Western/ central Europe = GMT +1, Greece = GMT +2, Russia = GMT + 4 (not part of the EU I know but Russians play on EU servers)
Point being, there is just as much time difference on one side of the Atlantic as the other. Punishing night capping will always effect people regardless of where they live/ what time they play. The only people that would be happy with it would be the people who live in the same time zone that a night capping time was set in.
Jedahs, your posts are generally well thought and expressed. That said, if this thread derails and you again reintroduce the topic… just drop the whole addiction argument.
Respectfully (and with the kindest intention), you are ill informed and ill prepared to speak to the challenges of addiction (or recovery). You clearly do not have the experience, strength, and hope necessary to battle trolls (or well meaning associates) on the issue of addiction.
Why avoid the issue entirely?
The task of defining addiction has challenged physicians, judges, clergy, addicts, their families, and the general public throughout history. There are as many potential definitions as there are groups with an interest in defining addiction. These definitions emphasize such things as physiological dependence, psychological dependence, family dynamics, behavioral problems, and morality. This list could be expanded at length, and, no doubt, we could come up with our own GW2 community definition and add it to the list. Fortunately, we need not even engage in such unfruitful, public debate.
It is known… The message of recovery is best carried from one addict to another. The challenge is to carry the message of recovery to the suffering addict separate and apart from any social, economic, or political advocacy.
Leveraging addiction as an argument for or against consumer (game) advocacy universally undermines the efforts of all disaffected parties to a cause.
Lastly, in post script, I chose not to dance with you on the tort questions, I’m not sure you have a sense for the requisite music.
Champion recovery issues or champion consumer (game) advocacy issues… don’t conflate the two.
ping should not be a problem atall, heres why:
3 EU servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in EU data center)
3 NA servers fight eachother in their primetime(currently located in NA data center)now,
Mix 1 eu server and 1 na server and make a server x
mix 2nd eu server and 2nd na server and make server y
mix 3rd eu server and 3rd na server and make server zduring eu primetime, server x,y,z will fight each other, since all the eu populations are still housed in eu data center, its the same as its happeing now( only the server name changes and nothing else)
when NA logs in , they also fight each other again on servers x,y,z, (they will again be housed in thier own NA data center)so, as you see, the servers x,y,z are not a physical location at all, instead they are just names of the servers.
Anet should have done this from the beginning as this would have sorted night capping and population balance.
Elders scrolls online is doing something similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AkiQBc2moYWhat? So you’re talking about 2 physical servers (one US and one EU) combined to form a single virtual server? That still doesn’t do away with ping. If you’re going to place a player in NA in the same world/zone/instance as a player in EU, they’re going to have to communicate, meaning you’ll still have data being sent over transatlantic fiber cables -> higher ping.
Ok let me explain with an example,
u work at apple computers in EU, your closest competition is Microsoft office of EU.
i work at apple computer in us, our competition is also Microsoft of us.
now, lets say the global apple computer is located in africa and global Microsoft is also located in africa.
so even though me and you will never move and compete only against your local microsoft, when the global market is concerned, the my contribution and your contribution will go to global apple. same for microsoft.
so on a global scale, gobal apple computers is doing well, cos am doing my part in us and u are doing urs in eu, and none of us have to physically move atall.
use the same logic on servers.
Ok, I’m either stupid right now and not understanding your logic (or how your illustration relates to servers), or you just don’t understand how servers work.
But let me guess what you’re trying to say. It sounds like you’re proposing a tier-ed server system like how corporations are tier-ed based on locations. You have Apple HQ in California, but there are still Apple divisions throughout the world. So by that logic, there would be a sub-server for EU and another sub-server for US. A NA player connects to the US sub-server and EU player connects to the EU sub-server, and then the sub-servers connects to the global master-server.
wow, i am pretty bad at explaining !
u got it correctly until the part “and then the sub-servers connects to the global master-server.”
there isn’t a master server, the “master server” servers only for ranking purpose, nobody actually fights there atall,
the ranking is calculated outside the game on the ladder by averaging the performance of the sub servers, there by giving the averaged rank of the master server.
listen to the video i attached above,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzLoaHFE6D0
from 3:12, he explains what they do.
@ Cloud:
So Pacific players shoildn`t be punished. But it`s ok to punished “daytime player” Byte flushing their investments in time AND gold spend down the toilette. I can only tell for the european severs, from searching the Internet it doesn`t seem to be such a bigbedi Problem on NA servers.
@ Nashaan:
Well theoretically might seem to be even. But sinne in Europe players tend to choose their servers after the language spoken on the specific Servers, i would almost say that other timezones outside of CES have a far small impact in that case as u might thinking. Though, as u have mentioned the russians, there is a strong russians server on European servers. But i must admit that i am Not quite aware of their actual strength and size.
But since u have quite good answers to that subject u can explain to me why NA servers did leveled themself to that raiting So quick and EU Servers have so big gaps in points and raiting changes much more dramatically. I still try to find the reasons for that.
Don`t get me wrong. I do not play on a toptier Server. We play at this time in Tier 3 an that is ok. Even if we would drop to Tier 4 (ranking 10 – 12) i would not mind. It is just that it gets exhausting to build up towers and keeps and buy siegeweapons just to lose it all to that nightcapping Problem. Especially after the drops of items and valuable materials have seem to decreased damatically (still unsure it is a bug or intended). That makes nightcapping an even bigger Problem as to when it first has beenden dicussed here.
@ Salluks
[spoiler]I’m sorry to tell you this but don’t talk about things you have no clue on.
IF you have a WvW with 2 NA and 1 EU server (and you will have if you rank them together) the data must send from NA to EU and otherwise. It has to be because if EU-Player cast a spell a NA-Player has to respond on it.
Have a Ranking together but not competing against each other wouldn’t make any sence.
To respond on your exampel:
They have put up a Login-Server(“Mega-Server” (made me laugh btw.)) who evrybody logs in and is then put on local GAME-Servers. Anets do exactly the same btw. just not “randomly” switching ppl from one Game-Server to another. And they got the exact problem if players from US and EU are playing on one GAME server one of them will get a high ping wether the machine is located in US or EU.[/spoiler]
To merge NA and EU server is a bad Idea.
I dont know how it is on NA-Server but on EU server its horrible to play against servers who are not in your time zone (and I’m not talking about 2-3h). On this Matches the Server with the latest primetime wins. You can’t upgrade keeps, because they will be rolled over 4h later and so on.
Another exampel is the threatening of 1 big US guild (forgot their name) randomly joining one EU server and messing up every statistic by ganking all other EU servers over night. You put much effort in your Rank etc. and to see this all destroyed simply because of exploiting the time difference is crap.
So I’m a fan to of seperating NA and EU servers.
greetz
They need to resolve culling before this kind of mash-up happens. Because the lag from the region clash will likely make it 10x worse.
I am in the UK and I have found no real difference in latency between EU and US WvW servers. I found I was able to play normally on both.
Anet did mess things up when they made servers continent specific, it has caused a lot of hassle especially to large global based guilds who have ended up splitting apart due to Anet’s decision to do this.
Our guild has US players on an EU server and they too are not having any problems.
A part of being a good commander is also knowing how to delegate tasks and trust other people’s abilities to handle the situation. Sounds like you’re trying to take all the responsibility to yourself without relying on the other people in that server.
The good thing about having a more organized community is that when you’re taking a week off or otherwise aren’t playing WvW, yet have a significant impact into it, you can just state that to the others and they will take over. Try to work on it instead of changing the game by individual efforts, it’s probably not happening.
Anet did mess things up when they made servers continent specific, it has caused a lot of hassle especially to large global based guilds who have ended up splitting apart due to Anet’s decision to do this.
Large global based guilds should surely have picked either a US or EU server, if they decided to split themselves up that is their fault, not Anet’s.
As for making servers continent specific, it makes perfect sense, you get better performance with localised servers, hence why many games do it, not everyone has a super fast connection, nor does everyone live as near to a proposed global server as you may do.
I’ve played a game where they switched from local servers to global ones, the difference was noticeable and in part led me to stop playing the game. The game was LOTRO, they moved teh EU servers to the US (Boston), I am in the UK, on the surface the difference in ping was fine it went from about 60-70 to 120-150, the problems however were there were far more spikes (1000ms+) and I actually started getting packet loss at times, this got worse the further east you went in Europe, we had people in Poland who at times got 20% packet loss, guess what they lost players.
And in a game like GW2 which has big culling issues already (which may never be solved), degrading performance further is just a mind numbingly silly idea.
To the OP, if it is taking too much time up, then take some responsibilty for yourself and play less.
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
@ Cloud:
So Pacific players shoildn`t be punished. But it`s ok to punished “daytime player” Byte flushing their investments in time AND gold spend down the toilette. I can only tell for the european severs, from searching the Internet it doesn`t seem to be such a bigbedi Problem on NA servers.@ Nashaan:
Well theoretically might seem to be even. But sinne in Europe players tend to choose their servers after the language spoken on the specific Servers, i would almost say that other timezones outside of CES have a far small impact in that case as u might thinking. Though, as u have mentioned the russians, there is a strong russians server on European servers. But i must admit that i am Not quite aware of their actual strength and size.But since u have quite good answers to that subject u can explain to me why NA servers did leveled themself to that raiting So quick and EU Servers have so big gaps in points and raiting changes much more dramatically. I still try to find the reasons for that.
‘Night capping ’ as people call it happens just as much on the NA servers as it does the EU servers. The majority of Korean/ Aus/ NZ guilds play on NA servers as they give better latency.
I would say a good portion of large point gaps and rating changes are due to bandwagonning, the blame for which sits squarely on Anet’s shoulders for allowing players to freely hop servers without being charged and still take part in WvW straight away.
The reason the NA servers levelled out in my opinion is that the majority of them have 24 hr coverage. Speaking as a Brit on NA servers, they are populated throughout the day & night, either by US folks or non US folks. An excellent example for that is : at this moment it is 1523 gmt, that’s 1023 est and 0723 pst, yet 17 of the 24 servers are full, the others are very high. Compare that to EU servers where only 5 of the 27 servers are full, and 20 are very high, considering its 1623 in central Europe you would expect it to be the other way around.
From experience when I switched to Blacktide for a couple of weeks to play with friends, after 1-2 am the server dies a death (granted that was a month ago, and I didn’t wvw) at that time of the day LA was a ghost town during the week and at weekends.
Having said all that, I’m not sure what Jade Quarry had for breakfast this morning but they have nearly kicked us (SBI) off our own map so I don’t think you’ll see many of them complaining about out of hours capping lol, and peak US time isn’t for hours yet.
The first thing that needs to be changed imo is getting rid of free server transfers, or placing restrictions on them somehow (something that actually works, not just saying you can only do it once a week)
@Nashaan:
Thanks for you explaination. But this only approves my Theorie. The main Argument was that nightcapping doesn’t seem to be a big Problem NA servers as it is on EU servers. And that was what i meant when talking about timezones. I just forgot the ozeanic Part of players wich isn’t as small as it might be forgotten. And you said it yourself: Servers are technically dead almost certain times a day because of two things…
- the vast majority of players devides themselfs to Servers their own language (german, french, english (UK), spain) and even the players without dedicated servers organise themself on certain servers.
- the vast majority of EU players plays at the same time almost which means that during offtime which can be between 12 to 18 hours a day, points are Made by a few people able to play that time. And the Server able to send in more people Most likely will win.
You said yourself: in NA it levelt out, because of ozeanic players too. In EU it won’t probably happen cause the vast majority plays at the same time and there are no ozeanic players to join EU servers because, as u stated right, NA Servers are more accessable (beides EU tend to have more diffrent languages used).
This “nightcapping and you”-Threat is only correct for some servers AND doesn’t fully apply to EU servers. NA might have find a natural balance somehow. But nightcapping balance on EU is much more complicated and fragile. Cause it only needs a few more people during offtimes to make one Server unstopable take advantages for Most time of day….. every day during the week.
With Hose transfere problems i am fully with you. But that has even a bigger impact when u have Problems likely i described before. Transferers shoildn gets locken out of the current match at the time of change. Winningteamjoiner are a big Problem.
But nightcapping is what makes those Winningteamjoiner transfere faster when the see a server which has week nightshifts as opponents.
@Arrclyde
I agree with you about it being more noticeable on EU servers. If a server goes quiet at night with minimal population as how I noted on an EU server, it would only take one guild from a different timezone to vastly change the balance. Then comes the snowball effect, as soon as that server starts travelling up the rankings more and more people jump on the bandwagon for an easy ride through the tiers.
You know what is the hardest part of commanding?
When you have full capped. The zerg is celebrating… yay you won the day.
But you know…that as soon as you log off or change maps, the enemy will cap all your empty towers…
So….you wait….1am….and wait….3am……and as commander you gotta entertain the zerg with jokes and riddles or they will leave…..and you wait…..5am…..
Why? Why does anyone need to do this? 24/7 WvW? don’t kid yourself it isn’t 24/7 Raging hardcore WvW. It’s just whoever sleeps less staring at a empty boarderland.
@op Dude get a life. This is just a videogame and if you have actual health problems from playing too much simple answer: stop playing so much
About the nightcap issue: Random though that I know people won’t like, but why not just not publicize the ranking? Heck, get rid of scores too. Just let people play WvW for the sake of killing other players and server pride instead of being obsessed over the stupid tiers? Seems that would solve the bandwagon issue and if you happen to play a server that “nighcaps” then try again next week maybe you will get lucky and not fight a 24/7 server. I live in central NA and work overnights so my main playing time is opposite of peak: middle of night-early morning, should I be punished just because I don’t jump on the game in the evening?
And a suggestion in reply to previous post: Instead of staying up all night entertaining your zerg be happy you won this day and try again tomorrow…
(edited by Drede.4701)
A part of being a good commander is also knowing how to delegate tasks and trust other people’s abilities to handle the situation. Sounds like you’re trying to take all the responsibility to yourself without relying on the other people in that server.
The good thing about having a more organized community is that when you’re taking a week off or otherwise aren’t playing WvW, yet have a significant impact into it, you can just state that to the others and they will take over. Try to work on it instead of changing the game by individual efforts, it’s probably not happening.
Nope, there are simply no players on during Euro prime. This is why i need to play during Euro prime along with my guild. We should be sleeping during these godforsaken hours.
No one to delegate to my friend. So stop telling me to delegate.
The only way for it to work is if we recruit a Euro guild to join our server. But then what? How about all the other servers? Seriously if SOS gets 1 or 2 Euro guild we will dominate WvW #1 forever. Does that even sound reasonable? Does that sound fun? I don’t think so.
If there are no players on during Euro prime time why do you need to be on? Let the graveyard crews of the servers fight themselves without an addicted daytime commander leading one of them…
If there are no players on during Euro prime time why do you need to be on? Let the graveyard crews of the servers fight themselves without an addicted daytime commander leading one of them…
Because if some other organized guild decides to stay up late and destroy us, we are screwed. It takes a good organized guild less than 20 minutes to wipe out an entirely upgraded Boarderland if left undefended.
I am in tier 1. We are against the best of the best. We all came here to win. I’m telling you though, it isn’t working for us. We spend 2-3 weeks in tier 1 and we already see only 2 ways out:
- Quit the game
- Go to a Euro Server and PvDoor
PVE? sPVP? sorry we didn’t buy the game for that.
Also, everyone who is talking about addiction. I really dont know what I am addicted to… I am simply sitting here every night….staring a fully capped map.
I’m not fighting, nor defending, the enemy is standing there waiting for me to log off, and I’m staring back at him thinking “no way buddy”. What’s so addictive about that?
Much as I would like some more night players on Gandara merging servers is not the answer. We have an excellent community spirit on our server and there is a large chance that would be destroyed by a sudden influx of 100’s / 1000’s of players.
The situation where you feel burned out due to over playing and such I have faced myself in WoW where I was a raid leader unfortunately there is only 1 solution to this and it involves only you. Walk away from the game and take a break, you may not think its needed but if you have reached the point where you think the servers rise and fall depends on you being there all the time its definately time to step back.
Nope, there are simply no players on during Euro prime. This is why i need to play during Euro prime along with my guild. We should be sleeping during these godforsaken hours.
No one to delegate to my friend. So stop telling me to delegate.
The only way for it to work is if we recruit a Euro guild to join our server. But then what? How about all the other servers? Seriously if SOS gets 1 or 2 Euro guild we will dominate WvW #1 forever. Does that even sound reasonable? Does that sound fun? I don’t think so.
You do not necessarily need the whole strength of your guild out there. Just work extra hard to get points during your own prime time. Have some of your guild work the night shift every now and then and focus on not conceding too many points.
It just sounds like you are the sole reason your server is holding up which I doubt is the case. You should take this up to your WvW community instead.
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