Guild Wars 2

@ Binafus.

Yes. More points means more 24/7 coverage, means nightcapping, means zerging and pve’in doors.

You guys sure are number 1 in that. Gratz… i guess?

Binafus.8153:

@Kazim

If that is what you think that is cool, everyone never agrees on anything in this game.

I know that being number one on the rankings only means one thing to me.

We scored more points than everyone else, dunno why that is so hard to understand.

It’s hard to understand why would anyone want to try to be alarm clock champion. Get it mate? Not yet? Ok, again.

You scored the most points in a competition to stay late at night or not sleep at all. You scored the most points in convicing some people from other time-zones to server transfer to you and fight with NPC’s when others sleep.
You scored the most points in nothing in particular.

I can do it all day. Got it yet?

plenty of great suggestions here on how to fix the night capping issue. fix your game, matt!

When ET and SBI was double teaming HOD last week you guys had us last place after four and a half days.

Then you guys let up, stoped double teaming, got tired of playing not really sure what happened and let us come back and win.

I thought it was great someone was putting us in our place and showing us we could be beat.

Do it next week and HOD will have its first loss, do it a couple weeks in a row and part of our population will leave and join your server.

This is how a three way battle is suppose to be, the players can fix this problem Anet needs to do nothing.

It would be nice if points were weighted in a way that the more competition there is in a zone based on zone population, the more points are worth in that particular zone. That way servers that can’t field a strong presence in all zones at all times of day aren’t penalized as badly.

Alternatively, make the outnumbered buff into something much more powerful or create a hero NPCs that will try to at least help your team get a foothold on the closest tower if your team is greatly outnumbered. As much as I dislike the idea of NPCs doing the work, it would really help the players who are constantly outnumbered in a zone and actually provide some opposition.

Binafus, since this thread is about night-capping and you were already told that your input has nothing to do with it, could you please proceed to some different thread to proclaim your server provess in whatever it is that you think is combat? Scoring system needs to be adjusted to reflect actual combat and people participation. It has nothing to do with what players can do as a community.

@Zireal

I do get it but that is the way the game works, the people who started on HOD knew the rules and did what it takes to be number 1.

Your server knew this at the start too, not my fault we did a better job than you guys did getting ready for it.

We have many many coatail players now beat us a few weeks and they will come to your server, problem fixed.

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

All I see is Oceanic this, Oceanic that. This is a global problem, It needs to be solved, ANet is expecting we solve this as a community but what community? As an Oceanic player, I’m willing to move out from Sea of Sorrows, but where? I cannot move to a full server and what if there is absolutely no off-peak activity on the one I go to? And what IF a full server is pretty much 100% NA player base?

These are just a few of many questions surrounding the situation, this is not any players fault or their location, we’re in the dark as much as you with the solution, ANet has to at least help in some way but so far they have not. Free transfer? thanks, but the rapid amount of guilds just picking up and moving is causing more issues then it is solving.

For once I completely agree with you. IMO we should keep this as a common ground and move forward from this.

WvW MANIFESTO:

• There is a problem and majority is unhappy about it
• This is not a problem created by Oceanic/Canadian players, in general this is not a problem created by players, but game mechanics/design.
• This problem can not be solved by players. Game mechanics/design need some improvements.
• This problem can be solved fairly. WvW is not doomed to die or become a niche sport, only a small player base can enjoy/compete.
• Solutions should not hinder any player’s game time. Should not prevent them enjoying the game, whenever they want to.
• Solutions should not provide unfair advantage/disadvantage to any player playing any time of the game. Players should not have to change their life styles to be useful/competitive on WvW.

Actually your making stuff up now. The majority are unhappy about nightcapping? Says who? I see the same people complaining about it in the forums. And on that note I see the same people defending it.

If you want to go by the forums, its pretty much 50/50.

Lets keep things real shall we.

While I’m not against nightcapping per-say, I think some of the underlining issue is what I’m the most upset about.

The server that I am on has little to no European/Pacific/Asian player base. We are currently matched up with at least one server who has at least a healthy non north american playerbase. As a result there is little our server can do.

I foresee a WvW future where the servers will little non-NA players end up just being matched up together since they constantly lose out to the other non-NA heavy servers

Namu.5712:

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

All I see is Oceanic this, Oceanic that. This is a global problem, It needs to be solved, ANet is expecting we solve this as a community but what community? As an Oceanic player, I’m willing to move out from Sea of Sorrows, but where? I cannot move to a full server and what if there is absolutely no off-peak activity on the one I go to? And what IF a full server is pretty much 100% NA player base?

These are just a few of many questions surrounding the situation, this is not any players fault or their location, we’re in the dark as much as you with the solution, ANet has to at least help in some way but so far they have not. Free transfer? thanks, but the rapid amount of guilds just picking up and moving is causing more issues then it is solving.

For once I completely agree with you. IMO we should keep this as a common ground and move forward from this.

WvW MANIFESTO:

• There is a problem and majority is unhappy about it
• This is not a problem created by Oceanic/Canadian players, in general this is not a problem created by players, but game mechanics/design.
• This problem can not be solved by players. Game mechanics/design need some improvements.
• This problem can be solved fairly. WvW is not doomed to die or become a niche sport, only a small player base can enjoy/compete.
• Solutions should not hinder any player’s game time. Should not prevent them enjoying the game, whenever they want to.
• Solutions should not provide unfair advantage/disadvantage to any player playing any time of the game. Players should not have to change their life styles to be useful/competitive on WvW.

Actually your making stuff up now. The majority are unhappy about nightcapping? Says who? I see the same people complaining about it in the forums. And on that note I see the same people defending it.

If you want to go by the forums, its pretty much 50/50.

Lets keep things real shall we.

If you are on a server with no oceanic presence then WvW is pointless if one of your opponents does have an oceanic presence.

How can you think this is a good thing?

Roland Falantyr.3290:

Namu.5712:

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

All I see is Oceanic this, Oceanic that. This is a global problem, It needs to be solved, ANet is expecting we solve this as a community but what community? As an Oceanic player, I’m willing to move out from Sea of Sorrows, but where? I cannot move to a full server and what if there is absolutely no off-peak activity on the one I go to? And what IF a full server is pretty much 100% NA player base?

These are just a few of many questions surrounding the situation, this is not any players fault or their location, we’re in the dark as much as you with the solution, ANet has to at least help in some way but so far they have not. Free transfer? thanks, but the rapid amount of guilds just picking up and moving is causing more issues then it is solving.

For once I completely agree with you. IMO we should keep this as a common ground and move forward from this.

WvW MANIFESTO:

• There is a problem and majority is unhappy about it
• This is not a problem created by Oceanic/Canadian players, in general this is not a problem created by players, but game mechanics/design.
• This problem can not be solved by players. Game mechanics/design need some improvements.
• This problem can be solved fairly. WvW is not doomed to die or become a niche sport, only a small player base can enjoy/compete.
• Solutions should not hinder any player’s game time. Should not prevent them enjoying the game, whenever they want to.
• Solutions should not provide unfair advantage/disadvantage to any player playing any time of the game. Players should not have to change their life styles to be useful/competitive on WvW.

Actually your making stuff up now. The majority are unhappy about nightcapping? Says who? I see the same people complaining about it in the forums. And on that note I see the same people defending it.

If you want to go by the forums, its pretty much 50/50.

Lets keep things real shall we.

If you are on a server with no oceanic presence then WvW is pointless if one of your opponents does have an oceanic presence.

How can you think this is a good thing?

Because his server has a big Oceanic presence and is winning easily.

Zireael did not mean to type your name wrong meant no offense.

Here are some of the things any guild can do to have a chance at being number one.

Require your members to que when online for WvW.
Don’t allow alts everyone get on their best toon to WvW.
Staying up when you need sleep in order to win.
Getting up early to play when you do not feel like it.
Recruiting players that can play when the main part of your guild is not on.
Maybe having to change servers to even out que times for 24 hour coverage.
Understanding Casual players have no place in a guild that wants to be number 1.
Double teaming the server above you in order to win.
Do not allow jump puzzles in your Warzones, everyone is there to win not screw around.
Use your money and tokens for siege and upgrades.

If you want to be number here are the things you have to deal with.

Sitting in Que when you want to play.
Playing later than you want too in order to win.
Everyone following someone elses directions even if you do not agree.
Having the majority of players think you win becuase the rules do not favor them.
Having players and guilds join your server that do not feel as strongly about winning as you do.

Namu.5712:

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

All I see is Oceanic this, Oceanic that. This is a global problem, It needs to be solved, ANet is expecting we solve this as a community but what community? As an Oceanic player, I’m willing to move out from Sea of Sorrows, but where? I cannot move to a full server and what if there is absolutely no off-peak activity on the one I go to? And what IF a full server is pretty much 100% NA player base?

These are just a few of many questions surrounding the situation, this is not any players fault or their location, we’re in the dark as much as you with the solution, ANet has to at least help in some way but so far they have not. Free transfer? thanks, but the rapid amount of guilds just picking up and moving is causing more issues then it is solving.

For once I completely agree with you. IMO we should keep this as a common ground and move forward from this.

WvW MANIFESTO:

• There is a problem and majority is unhappy about it
• This is not a problem created by Oceanic/Canadian players, in general this is not a problem created by players, but game mechanics/design.
• This problem can not be solved by players. Game mechanics/design need some improvements.
• This problem can be solved fairly. WvW is not doomed to die or become a niche sport, only a small player base can enjoy/compete.
• Solutions should not hinder any player’s game time. Should not prevent them enjoying the game, whenever they want to.
• Solutions should not provide unfair advantage/disadvantage to any player playing any time of the game. Players should not have to change their life styles to be useful/competitive on WvW.

Actually your making stuff up now. The majority are unhappy about nightcapping? Says who? I see the same people complaining about it in the forums. And on that note I see the same people defending it.

If you want to go by the forums, its pretty much 50/50.

Lets keep things real shall we.

If you want to keep things real I would say it’s population of 3 US and 3 EU servers with most points vs. population of all the rest. Since the first 3 have enough population to compete 24/7 and the rest does not, I would say that the first 3 think the scoring system is at least good, and the rest thinks that it at least lacks in some aspects. So using Pareto principle its pretty much 80/20 in favor of some scoring change.

Binafus.8153:

Zireael did not mean to type your name wrong meant no offense.

Here are some of the things any guild can do to have a chance at being number one.

Require your members to que when online for WvW.
Don’t allow alts everyone get on their best toon to WvW.
Staying up when you need sleep in order to win.
Getting up early to play when you do not feel like it.
Recruiting players that can play when the main part of your guild is not on.
Maybe having to change servers to even out que times for 24 hour coverage.
Understanding Casual players have no place in a guild that wants to be number 1.
Double teaming the server above you in order to win.
Do not allow jump puzzles in your Warzones, everyone is there to win not screw around.

If you want to be number here are the things you have to deal with.

Sitting in Que when you want to play.
Playing later than you want too in order to win.
Everyone following someone elses directions even if you do not agree.
Having the majority of players think you win becuase the rules do not favor them.
Having players and guilds join your server that do not feel as strongly about winning as you do.

Yes, I know all of it. And I’m 100% sure that our 100+ guild nor our few hundred people strong alliance is not going to do anything above what we already do because playing this game is not a job nor some sort of sick duty. We’re playing to have fun when we want to. And we want to see the score reflect ALL people efforts, not just those playing at night. Either we get that, or we won’t be playing it at all and you’re still going to be alarm clock champions. I guess you won’t be bragging about it like being DAoC champion, huh? Nah, I don’t think so.

Zireael I do understand your point of view and see why you want things changed.

I think a server that plays to have fun should have the ability to do so, but do not think they should be considered the highest ranked server in the game.

Servers that should be number one are a bit crazy and have no sense of balance.

Very few games come out that have this rule set I have been looking forward to this for a long time, it is not really for the casual gamer which is the larger market.

Binafus, I think you got me wrong. We’re not casuals that play 4 hours a week tops. We’re not going to do anything else above what we do now because those efforts are not reflected in the score. The score is a reflection of 24/7 coverage not combat provess. As I stated before I can bet money on that you won’t stand a chance against us on the open field and in a 24 hrs match. Servers that should be number one should prove it in combat not in alarm clocking. I understand your point of view but you still don’t understand mine. You want to justify current scoring system because you put enough sleepless hours to get where you are. Ok, it’s understandable. And I want you to sleep in the night and prove your worth at the same time. Win/Win is always better then Win/Lose.

Zireael -We see gaming different which is ok there are lots of games out there.

I started playing Quake 1v1 and 4v4 played fps for a long time very competitive, and have been on very competitive teams ever since then, just do not do FPS anymore. If I do I play them casual.

I can go months without playing any games, very few games come along with this ruleset and hate to see Anet mess it up, this game was built up to be a game like it turned out to be.

I did not even play but one character in beta and got it up to level 10, did not want to play the game any more than I had too before release.

To say you know you would beat me in a game while by the only means to judge who is best in the game have me ahead of you is more than I would every say.

Maybe if your competitve but do not want to build a 24 hour team, you can still do SPVP in this game to show how good you are.

Well said ArenaNet. Welcome to the world of online, open world PvP. Past games like DOAC had this same issue in the past, upcoming games like Planetside 2 will have this same issue in the future.

Open world PvP isn’t about fair or balanced. It’s about unpredictable chaos. Getting rolled by a bigger zerg isn’t fair but it’s part of open world gameplay. That kind of organic imbalance can’t avoided unless you start to exert control over players with restrictions. Fair and balanced can be found in the structured PvP matches where players are restricted to rules like in a sport match. Open world PvP isn’t like that and that’s what makes it a completely different experience.

That’s not to say there aren’t some interesting suggestions here. I do like the ones that recommend killing players should give more weight/reward in the standings. Killing players should always be the main goal in PvP and systems that encourage that seem sensible.

Suggestion: Two WvWvW matches run simultaneously.

Game 1 starts at noon server and runs to midnight server time (Twilight).
Game 2 starts at midnight server and runs to noon server time (Sunrise).

Both game matches can last one-week/two-weeks (I prefer 3-day matches because I like opponent diversity). Servers can be ranked/matched against different servers based on Twilight ranking and Sunrise ranking.

At the end of Twilight and Sunrise, everyone is booted, maps are reloaded from the prior day’s (12-hours prior) match and the continuance match begins again.

Use the same “relative” scoring criteria currently but it does require a full map save and would help clear the maps consistently (so it does have ‘maintenance’/anti-bot benefits as well).

@Binafus. Yes, I can name here all the games that I played on proffesional level in my life so far but this is not about what you played in life, nor what did I. I can bet on beating your server because this is not 4 vs. 4 game. This is a cooperation game and Quake attitude does not work here at all. sPVP is not WvW. You can’t compare them, you can’t switch one for the other. If Anet leaves current scoring system in WvW it will be catering to the few hell bent on being the best whatever stupid pointless requirements they make to get it. The rest will just leave out of pure boredom of nothing to do not being heard nor cared about. Would you like to bet on which % bracket are you in? Would you like to talk about % of population that makes Anet make changes? I think I’ve said enough. You get the picture. Have a nice day.

Zireael – I know I’m the minority.

Anet made a game that was made for the minority like me, it is what they said they were making.

I think Anet will stick to the game they made, one thing about the minority if they like a game they play it for a long time.

Another good thing about the minority they do not mind spending money on their character if it makes it better, cash shops offer that as well.

A lot of casual players have already left or did not buy this game in the first place becuase it was built up to be a 24 hour war that never ends.

Marstar.7162:

etiolate.9185:

If the Oceanics are taking keeps with a 5-1 advantage then that’s pretty easy to do.

If …… is an assumption.

There is no 5:1 advantage. SBI and ET have an equal ability to field 166 per map on every map in Oceanic and SEA prime.

The top tier does not have the same night capping problem of the SoS tier. In that tier there is are mirror population disparity between the timezones.

SBI and ET stopped queuing when they started to lose. This is THE issue for the top tier.

This is not true at all. The people who had committed time during that weekend had other obligations during the week. The change in points happened long before people got fed up with the situation.

Further, I know that SBI always had a gap between Koreans and NA players. This was known before the week long matchups even began. In that gap, SBI were sizably outmanned versus servers with people then.

You also can’t just force people into WvWvW. There are WvWvW players and there are people who have no interest in WvWvW. HoD has a large selection of 24/7 WvWvW players. That is not the same thing as having a large selection of off-peak players. People play the game for different reasons and it’s nobody’s right to tell them how they should spend their playtime.

Yet if off-peak WvWvW becomes the meta then that will encourage that sort of behavior towards players and that will be a bad thing.

Solution: Make certain keeps go vulnerable at certain times for a set amount of time (much like Aion). It makes for some epic, large-scale battles in which strategy is key (given that you have a set amount of time to take a keep/tower). It also eliminates the constant game of duck-duck-goose that goes in on WvW: take one location, move, have it taken from you, take it back, move again, etc., etc… boring.

Zireael you can send me all the pms you want;)

I doubt anyone could send me a PM that would make me feel any different about myself.

Part of winning is hearing why it is not fair anyways.

I post here to let Anet know there are people who like it the way it is, and remind them this is the game they said they were making.

If they lose all the hardcore people this game will be done soon, as this game has a higher than normal percentage of hardcore people.

Binafus.8153:

Zireael you can send me all the pms you want;)

I doubt anyone could send me a PM that would make me feel any different about myself.

Part of winning is hearing why it is not fair anyways.

I post here to let Anet know there are people who like it the way it is, and remind them this is the game they said they were making.

If they lose all the hardcore people this game will be done soon, as this game has a higher than normal percentage of hardcore people.

I don’t recall ANET saying that WvW is a pure numbers game where the team with the most Oceanics wins.

You don’t? They said it right after they mentioned that part of winning was playing night pve against the keeps and winning by holding the maps uncontested for several hours.

Do you really think the hardcore pop that aren’t on a server with 24/7 coverage are going to stay?

The fate of my server is decided by people playing at night. I’m playing during peak hours and I have no impact on the result. Even If I’m playing good or bad I have no impact. Everything is decided in advance by people I don’t know, people I will never play with. In fact since we don’t play during the same hours we are total strangers to each other.
There is no “my server”. It’s their server, the night people. We, the peak hours guys, are foreigners on our server.

Why should I invest money in a match that is already won or already lost by someone else ? Fix the game, fix at least the scoring system.

Just to recap – the complaints seem to come down to “get off our server foreigner scum” and “you’re making us pvp during our day to regain ground”.

this thread is degenerated..
it is not meant to be for telling who is the best server, we know is HoD, the best\uber\godmode server with the best\uber\godmode community that ever exists in the world cos they are 1st in ranking and 1st in the score..
do you know what? this thread is for discussing on how to improve or change the score system cos at the moment it is terribly broken and people are not having anymore fun with it

Thesilentflute.8761:

There is no real way to change the point system in a way that would fair to asians and assies and still fix the issue. The best idea that I have seen about it was pop. based on page 4 i think but the cost of implementation seems to me very high.

A fluid cap would be a good idea but will all the bots can not really be done.

I firmly believe that it can only be fixed fairly through combat mechanics.

And more to the point why would you want to change it any other way with the current status of the game its a mindless zurg for the most part with little to no stratigic play.

pedrst.3127:

Matt Witter

This is not saying that we are against any adjustment to scoring, or against developing another mechanic to improve the capping system.

just saying

I’m a player who can only get on late in the evening my time. I’m in NA Mountain Time here, GMT -7

I tend to get off work late, then hang out with friends, and only upon getting home do I have time to hop on; where upon I enjoy WvW.

I have long noticed that my play time on Steam is almost ALWAYS associated with the lowest number of users playing on Steam. 2.3 million, while the peak can hit 5.8 million (usually I can’t play at this time, NA East Cost evening).

So, I feel a compensation should be in effect.

Option 1: Time based hours
(after intensive knowledge of player numbers vs. time of day)
During peak play hours (when most NA or EU servers have the highest number of players)
Score every 10 mins, +5 points to all objectives.
During mid play hours (when most NA or EU servers are not peaked, or at low point)
Score every 15 mins, regular points to all objectives.
During low play hours (when most NA or EU servers are at the lowest point of players)
Score every 20 mins, -5 points to all objectives.

Option 2: Base scores related to the number of players on the field.
Underdog for that time of day? Objectives you claim and hold score for more and more often.
Fielding massive amounts of troops to the opposition? Objectives you claim and hold score for less, and less often. (see above values)

This way even a server that has a low pop while their two opponents are fielding high pop still gains from sitting in the fight. Likewise, when that flips around that the now high pop is up against two low pops they don’t gain much for conquering the map.

You are currently catering this game to players who play at all times. If you accidentally favor those servers stacked with off-time gamers you will frustrate and alienate your collection of servers that play within the game’s peak hours.

That sounds like an overall loss rather than a gain.

Also, while we are at it, can we swap the orb and underdog bonuses? Orbs permit more XP, MF, etc. Underdog makes players stronger +Vit, +Str if there are less of them.

i don’t deny the right of other players to play. But you need to address the demoralizing that comes when we go up against servers that have a strong nightcrew. Because prime time we can be on top, but other side doesn’t even care that we pumping money and have good strats, because they know when we have to go to sleep, they will just get everything back. So you need to do something about night time play, because it makes every strategy or organization pointless. As long as you have a zerg of players in certain time zones, you win.

my suggestion:
1. Adjust the outnumbered buff:
right now the buff gives EXP and Magic find. What good are those if you have 15 players who are being camped at their starting zone by 40+ of the other side???
Instead add these buffs: 3x karma from the siege related dynamic events. 3x silver to cover the 3x repair bill players normally experience at this time of the night. Basically it had better be better than farming in Orr.

2. make the max player size at night smaller. Prime time players have to wait hours to get a queue pop. night crews can deal w/ it too. give the other servers some breathing room so they don’t have to 10v100.

3. Game wide messages. Give some system that can do game wide announcements like a news notification window. This can useful when u have Esports for announcing when important matches are occurring. and also for when there’s commanders on in wvw, or when there’s a good karma buff there due to being outnumbered.

Roland Falantyr.3290:

Namu.5712:

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

All I see is Oceanic this, Oceanic that. This is a global problem, It needs to be solved, ANet is expecting we solve this as a community but what community? As an Oceanic player, I’m willing to move out from Sea of Sorrows, but where? I cannot move to a full server and what if there is absolutely no off-peak activity on the one I go to? And what IF a full server is pretty much 100% NA player base?

These are just a few of many questions surrounding the situation, this is not any players fault or their location, we’re in the dark as much as you with the solution, ANet has to at least help in some way but so far they have not. Free transfer? thanks, but the rapid amount of guilds just picking up and moving is causing more issues then it is solving.

For once I completely agree with you. IMO we should keep this as a common ground and move forward from this.

WvW MANIFESTO:

• There is a problem and majority is unhappy about it
• This is not a problem created by Oceanic/Canadian players, in general this is not a problem created by players, but game mechanics/design.
• This problem can not be solved by players. Game mechanics/design need some improvements.
• This problem can be solved fairly. WvW is not doomed to die or become a niche sport, only a small player base can enjoy/compete.
• Solutions should not hinder any player’s game time. Should not prevent them enjoying the game, whenever they want to.
• Solutions should not provide unfair advantage/disadvantage to any player playing any time of the game. Players should not have to change their life styles to be useful/competitive on WvW.

Actually your making stuff up now. The majority are unhappy about nightcapping? Says who? I see the same people complaining about it in the forums. And on that note I see the same people defending it.

If you want to go by the forums, its pretty much 50/50.

Lets keep things real shall we.

If you are on a server with no oceanic presence then WvW is pointless if one of your opponents does have an oceanic presence.

How can you think this is a good thing?

Im sorry but where did I state its a good thing? I like how people qoute things then just make random kitten up in a reply lol

Having server rankings in a gametype that can be so heavily influenced by sheer population numbers is a patently silly idea.

Binafus.8153:

@Kazim

If that is what you think that is cool, everyone never agrees on anything in this game.

I know that being number one on the rankings only means one thing to me.

We scored more points than everyone else, dunno why that is so hard to understand.

I think we’ve already agreed on that.

Yourself saying that “this is how this game works” and I’m also accepting it. With current ruleset server with best 7/24 coverage scores most. Your server scored most so far. There is really nothing rocket science about it.

HoD is best at 7/24 coverage thus HoD is Number 1 at rankings. Denying this logic is negating the rules of this game.

pedrst.3127:

Matt Witter

This is not saying that we are against any adjustment to scoring, or against developing another mechanic to improve the capping system.

Saying “We’re not against” doesn’t imply “We’re gonna do it”. It’s just a PR way of “closing the issue”

DoctorOverlord.8620:

Well said ArenaNet. Welcome to the world of online, open world PvP. Past games like DOAC had this same issue in the past, upcoming games like Planetside 2 will have this same issue in the future.

Open world PvP isn’t about fair or balanced. It’s about unpredictable chaos. Getting rolled by a bigger zerg isn’t fair but it’s part of open world gameplay. That kind of organic imbalance can’t avoided unless you start to exert control over players with restrictions. Fair and balanced can be found in the structured PvP matches where players are restricted to rules like in a sport match. Open world PvP isn’t like that and that’s what makes it a completely different experience.

And the most popular 7/24 open world pvp game called EVE Online have several features preventing sleep time ninja. How come?

My 3 coppers.

1st copper: Most players play within a few specific hours of the day.

2nd copper: Nightcapping is part of a bigger balance problem. Suppose you have a nightcrew (“night” could be from the perspective of any time zone, it doesn’t matter) that is able to fill the WvWvW quota, but it gets so badly beaten up by the other servers during this particular time slot that your server has no chance of winning at all. Well, guess what, all the arguments against nightcapping, i.e. no chance of winning, wasted effort, etc. all applied here. But without the nightcapping argument, what could the players from other time slots do except move to a winning server?

3rd copper: Now let’s flash back to the time before ANet showed us WvWvW. Suppose ANet now instead show us the following WvWvW:
Divide WvWvW into 4 time slots of 6 hours each, and each time slot gets its own elo ranking. That’s right, each server is going be matched with other servers of equal strength during each particular time slot. At the end of each time slot, WvWvW status gets recorded (territory, siege and upgrades), and the status is loaded and continued during the same time slot next day.

Think now: will WvWvW not being persistent 24/7 kick up a kittentorm as huge as nightcapping currently does? (hint: look at my 1st copper)

The original post is trying to put forth the concept of fairness for all players. An admirable gesture, however, the current system just doesn’t reflect this.

I’ve played multiple servers in Europe and some in America and my experience is that the majority of match-ups were decided during the night when there was population disparity between servers. In the day, WvW was full for the most part, meaning that all sides were relatively equal.

The fact that match-ups are largely decided in the night means that each night time player is contributing more to the fight than a day time player. That is not fairness. That is not equality.

The point gain in the night time needs to be scaled down so that players from the day and night contribute the same amount.

Hello

First of all, even if I love WvW, I don’t give a kitten of which server is winning / losing, this is not why I love WvW

But I’d say that I feel like the issue is that there is this ranking, this ladder, between the servers

If the servers were not being rematched at all, there would be no point of counting points

And the players would just play to defend their homeland and attack the others

The two dominated servers wouldn’t fight each other for the second place, they would ally against the big one

And Nightcapping would only be a way of farming xp / karma

edit : haha, don’t give a kitten… nice filter

Sarqen Swiftshadow.7618:

The original post is trying to put forth the concept of fairness for all players. An admirable gesture, however, the current system just doesn’t reflect this.

I’ve played multiple servers in Europe and some in America and my experience is that the majority of match-ups were decided during the night when there was population disparity between servers. In the day, WvW was full for the most part, meaning that all sides were relatively equal.

The fact that match-ups are largely decided in the night means that each night time player is contributing more to the fight than a day time player. That is not fairness. That is not equality.

The point gain in the night time needs to be scaled down so that players from the day and night contribute the same amount.

The problem with this idea is it would by default put servers like Sea of Sorrows at an extreme disadvantage. You may as well just put us dead last.

So, since it’s night time for Oceanics then the US should also be slapped with the debuff. Then we’re all back to square one.

Stop thinking that there are no other time-zones. What you are suggesting is selfish and ignorant to the fact that Oceanics are forced to play against US. It’s not our fault that you guys go to sleep when it’s our prime time, and vice versa.

Living in another part of the world is not an exploit. It’s not a tactic. Stop claiming so.

Binafus.8153:

Zireael did not mean to type your name wrong meant no offense.

Here are some of the things any guild can do to have a chance at being number one.

Require your members to que when online for WvW.
Don’t allow alts everyone get on their best toon to WvW.
Staying up when you need sleep in order to win.
Getting up early to play when you do not feel like it.
Recruiting players that can play when the main part of your guild is not on.
Maybe having to change servers to even out que times for 24 hour coverage.
Understanding Casual players have no place in a guild that wants to be number 1.
Double teaming the server above you in order to win.
Do not allow jump puzzles in your Warzones, everyone is there to win not screw around.
Use your money and tokens for siege and upgrades.

If you want to be number here are the things you have to deal with.

Sitting in Que when you want to play.
Playing later than you want too in order to win.
Everyone following someone elses directions even if you do not agree.
Having the majority of players think you win becuase the rules do not favor them.
Having players and guilds join your server that do not feel as strongly about winning as you do.

What a ridiculous post. This is a game. Not a job, Not the army, Not my wife, Not my parents.. You are not asking people to enjoy this game. You are asking them to be robots. There is no prize for #1 .. who gives a hoot. People want to be able to enjoy this facet of the game on a level playing field. You seem to be one of the advocates for unlevel. Congratulations.. you will be number 1 when a good majority are no longer participating in it because there is no real reason too.

Bleagh, quotes not showing up >.>

Brynna: First of all, it’s regrettable that you wish to insult people rather than actually talk about the problem or your view on it. Hopefully when replying to me, I will not get some tirade but an actual response.

Your situation, that of servers nightcapping you and you nightcapping them, is actually not that much of a problem. It is a design problem, though, and I can’t think that you would believe it is enjoyable for either you or your enemy to have to retake stuff and not consider upgrades worthwhile. Think about what the other players on your server are going through, instead of getting all tough internet guy and saying it sucks but deal with it.

Second, your server match is literally not what people are complaining about at all. Really. What people are complaining about is group compositions that look like this:

Night: medium/lots Day: lots vs <——- the problem
Night: little Day: lots vs
Night: little Day: lots

Not comppsitions that look like this:

Night: lots Day: little vs
Night: little Day: lots vs
Night: little Day: lots

So again this is just another example of someone just looking at one small aspect of the problem and insulting others because it doesn’t apply to them. And if you actually worked with us, perhaps we could come up with a solution that helps both situations, yours and ours, and makes WvWvW something actually fun. Obviously there exist solutions that would make your SoS battles more fun for all the servers, in fact most of these talked about are just that.

And lastly, it is literally bad enough that it is not a whine anymore. It is a simply matter of not playing anymore and possibly moving to a different game it’s too bad. I do not play WvWvW anymore except to give my guild the occasional run to pretend like I care anymore.

I’ve been in software quality assurance for over 25years, and I can’t tell you how many times a developer or designer said “this is the way we designed it” to the user so be happy with it. And every time that happened .. there were unhappy customers because the developer / designer forgot who they were making the software for in the first place – the end user .. i.e. CUSTOMER. If a customer or customers are expressing a problem with a feature or function.. then there is a problem with the feature or function – they are the ones using it. Fixing the problem would only seem like the proper thing to do.

I thinks the night cap issue make the game dead already… no point to play anymore with such imbalance

Brynna Stormclaw.9621

Etc

Bryanna, can you please scroll up and read what i typed about the new score system thingy? Thank you!

Noone is asking anyone… to play at different servers/time-zones. Please just watch all reasonable posts and ignore the “omg US players for US servers only”.

Greep.6394:

So again this is just another example of someone just looking at one small aspect of the problem and insulting others because it doesn’t apply to them.

This kinda sums up your entire post to me.

It almost affects SoS more than any other US server because we have such a tiny US presence. Regardless of whom we fight, so long as the opponent server has a US presence, we will lose everything that we worked for.

Its unfair to suggest that point changes are made for “night time” because that directly affects the people in the Oceanic region, just because they another part of the world.

But that’s just where the selfishness comes in. When you lot refer to “night time” you refer to US off-peak, like US is the only country in the world that matters.

Build a bridge, get over it. Oh and if the precious US are the only ones getting the short end of the stick, the current score for our match against Tarnished Coast and Gates of Madness is:

TC: 124,495
SoS: 99,586
GoM: 63,791

This proves my point that if we are to go against any US force that also has a Oceanic presence, we lose. We will always lose until we get a US team. And like Brynna said, if changes are made so points are reduced in the US off-peak, Oceanics may as well not enter WvW anymore.

My apologies for coming off as insulting – I am just absolutely sick of people suggesting that, during the time my spot in the world allows me to play, the things I do shouldn’t count as much towards overall score. Simply because of where I’m located on the globe. How is that fair towards us? If something like that were implemented, our server would absolutely be screwed. We’d never be able to be anything but last, because what we do matters less, and the US servers we face would have an even bigger advantage.

It’s insulting to me when people claim that essentially not living or playing during the US prime time is an exploit or a tactic(not implying you said it, but a fair few in this thread and elsewhere have). We are simply trying to enjoy the game, as you undoubtedly are. We did ask for our own servers. We did from the beginning. But, we’re playing the hand that we’ve been dealt.

I’m sorry you aren’t having a good time. I really am. But please try and think how things affect others sometimes.